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KDE 4.2 Is Released

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the nice-and-gui dept.

KDE 488

OhReally writes "It's a great day for Free Software: KDE, the desktop environment for Linux, Windows, Mac, and (Open)Solaris, has just reached version 4.2, exactly a year since the release of 4.0. This is a version suitable for broad usage, with many improvements all across the board, and lots of bugfixes. You can leave a comment or congratulate the developers here."

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first post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26631417)

i win

second post (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26631435)

GNOME BLOWS

Woah (5, Funny)

Keanu Reeves (1418607) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631443)

It's pretty

Re:Woah (1, Flamebait)

jerep (794296) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631487)

Indeed, very impressive.

Now I can go back to using Gnome knowing it wont hog my CPU as much.

Re:Woah (5, Informative)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631515)

Go to Settings --> Destop --> uncheck Desktop Effects.

That was easy.

Re:Woah (5, Insightful)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631859)

Isn't there a way to detect CPU/Gfx card acceleration capabilities and disable them in certain conditions? E.g. if there is no hardware support for transform and lighting?

Windows does it, OS X does it. It would prevent a lot of criticism. Not sure about CPU detection but at least OpenGL should give tips about hardware in multi platform manner and it could be scaled to support OpenGL ES in future (on PDA etc.).

Re:Woah (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632319)

In the official announcement (http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.2/index.php), it says "KWin only enables desktop effects in the default setup on computers that are able to handle them."

Re:Woah (4, Informative)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632377)

Isn't there a way to detect CPU/Gfx card acceleration capabilities and disable them in certain conditions? E.g. if there is no hardware support for transform and lighting?

It already does.

Re:Woah (2, Interesting)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632585)

... and if it's only in use when you have decent graphics the computer probably don't take much of a hit since almost anyone is actually making good usage of their graphics card in Linux/whatever unix or unix-like OS.

Re:Woah (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632265)

Indeed, very impressive.

Now I can go back to using Gnome knowing it wont hog my CPU as much.

That's funny. I decided to use KDE over Gnome years ago 'cos Gnome was way too slow.

Re:Woah (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632519)

That's funny. I decided to use KDE over Gnome years ago 'cos Gnome was way too slow.

And you think your conclusion will remain valid forever or something? Software tends to change pretty quickly.

Re:Woah (5, Funny)

the_B0fh (208483) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632941)

Indeed, very impressive.

Now I can go back to using Gnome knowing it wont hog my CPU as much.

That's funny. I decided to use KDE over Gnome years ago 'cos Gnome was way too slow.

That's because Gnome wasn't able to hog your cpu you see...

Re:Woah (4, Informative)

GreatBunzinni (642500) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632747)

Although KDE 4.1 sucked at multiple levels, I'm finding KDE 4.2 to be a whole lot more polished, responsive and light. It even makes it possible to once again play sauerbraten something I wasn't able to do with KDE 4.1 with it's craptastic sub-20 fps performance. That's refreshing.

Beyond that, it fixed some nasty bugs from KDE 4.1 that were quite shocking and it also packs some features that went missing from KDE 3.5 like auto panel hiding, which is always good. Although it still suffers from nasty bugs, things are looking up. To put it bluntly, it's finally in a decent 4.0 state. It was a shame the KDE team had to drag KDE's brand name through the mud simply because they grossly failed to manage the user's expectations with the version numbering nonsense.

Re:Woah (2, Insightful)

the_B0fh (208483) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632869)

It was a shame the KDE team had to drag KDE's brand name through the mud simply because they grossly failed to manage the user's expectations with the version numbering nonsense.

Gee, the fact that they explicitly say "don't use this, not for end users", and you can't fucking read makes it their problem?

Re:Woah (5, Funny)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632935)

I disagree about the version numbering, from day 1 its been obvious
4.0 was for testing
4.1 was for developing
4.2 is the 1st end users release
4.3 the 1st release that will be truely ready for end users.
4.4 will be tweaked
4.5 will be so finished they'll get board and start over with a complete security overhaul because they went so far on the web integration that its going to be easier to start over than to just port kde4 to qt5

Re:Woah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26631809)

You created that account just for posts like this right? I love it.

Re:Woah (-1, Flamebait)

bursch-X (458146) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632253)

Actually it's not, it's trying very hard to be pretty ... EPIC FAIL. It's probably because the KDE guys just have no taste whatsoever. It's so sad.

Re:Woah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632505)

EPIC FAIL

Die!

Pretty (0)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632807)

Woah...it's pretty

Yes, because they did away with the well-established themeable, accelerated, accessible, translatable, Qt GUI Widgets, and based made up a new "plasmoid" system that's almost entirely incompatible with all that. It's pretty, but most of the features have been sacrificed for that, and it'll take AGES to get those features on a parallel, if they ever can.

1 question (-1, Flamebait)

Daimanta (1140543) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631451)

In what state is it?

pre-alpha?
alpha?
beta?
rc?
actually functional?

It's laughable that /. bashes Windows for it's SP2 is functional development but has little to no criticism for open source software(and especially KDE). If somebody releases x.0 I expect it to be functional with major bugs as they should be caught in alpha/beta/rc. Should we have to wait for KDE4.5 instead?

Re:1 question (5, Informative)

sctprog (240708) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631461)

I've been running SVN builds of it for the past couple-three weeks. It is stunning the improvement over even 4.1, let alone the crapfest that was 4.0

Re:1 question (5, Informative)

John Courtland (585609) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631481)

Are you kidding? Slashdot's general consensus has not been merciful towards KDE. In fact, most of what I have read has been "I switched to [GNOME|xfce|fluxbox] because of KDE4". Pretty damning.

Re:1 question (1)

sctprog (240708) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631545)

Well yeah.

The 4.0 release was highly reminiscent of the 2.0 days. Nothing worked.. crashes galore.. It has taken the KDE team an entire year to make it usable again.

I don't blame them. I've been a huge KDE fan for years, but even I didn't use 4.0.x

Re:1 question (2, Insightful)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632163)

usable doesn't mean bug-free though, I'm waiting until they unfutz some annoying bugs before going back from my temporary GNOME-refuge

Re:1 question (1)

greg_barton (5551) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632659)

Ah, no need to feed the "ya'll are a bunch of hypocrites!" troll.

Re:1 question (5, Interesting)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631503)

Get over 4.0. There is no changing what happened and it's too easy a bitch anyways.

KDE 4.2 is functional and should work beyond expectations for most typical home users.

It even intergrates google gadets into plasma!

Re:1 question (1)

Abreu (173023) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631523)

Only one way to find out: I am installing the .debs tonight

Re:1 question (1, Funny)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632623)

This will be moderated troll instead of funny but who cares about karma? :D

Only one way to find out: I am installing the .debs tonight

You mean "tonight" like two-three years from now?

I know there are .debs for other dists than Debian, or the testing and unstable versions.

Re:1 question (2, Funny)

Daniel Weis (1209058) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631571)

Actually we have to wait for KDE for Workgroups 4.21. Good guess though!

Re:1 question (5, Informative)

ACS Solver (1068112) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631741)

Interestingly, the KDE developers almost said plainly that 4.2 is finally KDE 4 ready for most people and usable. The release announcement on dot.kde.org says that this is "a compelling choice for the majority of end users", whereas the previous versions were "targeting enthusiasts".

As for my own anecdotal experience, I've been running 4.2 RC and upgraded to the final build a couple of hours ago, and it's definitely improved. Fixed a bunch of rendering issues I experienced, Plasma is more functional, Wine-installed apps go where they should in the traditional launcher and the new power manager seems good. And yes, after I installed 4.0 a year ago, I actually felt as if jokes about Vista are biting me in the ass, I really wanted to use 4.0 but had to go return to 3.5 because 4.0 just didn't work.

Re:1 question (2, Interesting)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631869)

Download it and make your own judgment, however I will echo the sentiment that it is a VAST improvement over 4.1 and 4.0.

I find it odd that Linus just made a stink about KDE a week before 4.2, and had he tried 4.2, he might have felt differently. Then again, last I heard he was using Ubuntu, and they made a big mess of their Kubuntu/KDE 4.x packages, which has really caused the KDE project some undue negative press.

That being said, there are some legitimate gripes about the previous releases, and some bickering over whether or not the KDE devs need users, or value their input, to which the varied KDE devs (expectedly of such a diverse group) gave varied responses.

openSUSE probably puts out the best packages, though I hear the Arch KDEmod packages are quite good as well.

I also really dig that I can run KDE (including Plasma) on Windows.

Re:1 question (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632467)

Linus didnÂt really make a fuss over KDE4. That was just the media spin on his comments. What he actually said was that he found KDE4.0 unusable for his everyday use, and that heÂd switch back if it was sufficiently improved. Which is a fair assessment.

Re:1 question (3, Informative)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632861)

im fairly sure linus uses fedora.

Re:1 question (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632919)

I could be mistaken.

Re:1 question (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26631881)

I know I'm feeding the troll, but...

I think that KDE since KDE 4 has been one of the most criticized projects, even more than Windows.

Re:1 question (2, Insightful)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632683)

I think that KDE since KDE 4 has been one of the most criticized projects, even more than Windows.

I think they have on thing in common:
* Don't overhype it if you can't deliver on the promises!

Re:1 question (2, Insightful)

the_B0fh (208483) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632957)

KDE did not hype KDE4. Only the people who can't read and understand that it was a developer release, to prepare and have a framework ready so that 3rd party developers can have a target to develop against.

But, apparently this concept is too difficult for people to understand.

Read the Sign (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26631957)

Don't Feed the Trolls.

Re:1 question (3, Insightful)

Zephiris (788562) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632421)

KDE was adamantly clear that KDE 4.0 was not a 'user' release, but was solely for third party developers to actually get involved and start porting, and to make a difference. A pure developer preview. KDE 4.1 was stabilizing third party apps and the platform. KDE 4.2 is the first user-centric general use release for 4.x. It's not their fault that apparently many users and distributors didn't listen or care.

It's not as if they KDE left people without working 3.5, either. KDE 3.5.9 and 3.5.10 both brought bug fixes and improvements. "We're having an unstable/preview release, deal with it, the people who care about it will know about it" used to be common in the open source world.

It tends to lean towards better results if people can get ahold of things ahead of a 'stable' release, bazaar style, so bug fixes can be made, design issues can be settled, before it becomes a 'user' release.

If they were allowed to persist and fester, any such issues outstanding would affect people using the software version for years to come (and longer if backwards compatibility mandates are taken into account).

I'm not trying to be pointed about it, but flaws and bugs creeping in and staying there more or less defines the Windows experience. It's okay if you have an app from 10 years ago you can't recompile (and hopefully still works on current video drivers/hardware), it's not so good if all of the source is available, and bad design choices can cause serious problems in writing and maintaining software.

Just because everyone jumped the gun and wanted KDE 4.0 to be perfect and immediately available even while KDE 3.5 maintenance was ongoing, was pretty much fooling themselves. GNOME seems to maintain a large number of projects under its umbrella, and when a release is made, everything's updated in line. KDE has a lot of major third party apps which required a significant amount of porting and rewriting to move from Qt 3.3 and KDE 3.5. Being able to shake down the libraries, and applications mean that the final release products tend to 'just work'. Less vendor patches needed just to clean things up.

The .0 preview, .1 stabilization, .2 starts as stable tends to mirror GCC's typical schedule in this case, however, and GCC's used for everything, took two years to get to the point where most things would finally touch it and ditch GCC 3.4.

A year's not long when you consider the entire KDE ecosystem has had time to work on things and most projects are releasing near-concurrently with full support.

Re:1 question (5, Informative)

QCompson (675963) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632875)

KDE was adamantly clear that KDE 4.0 was not a 'user' release, but was solely for third party developers to actually get involved and start porting, and to make a difference.

Wha?!? Please point me to where on the KDE4.0 release http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/ [kde.org] page they made it "adamantly clear that KDE 4.0 was not a user release." They did say:

The KDE Community is thrilled to announce the immediate availability of KDE 4.0. This significant release marks both the end of the long and intensive development cycle leading up to KDE 4.0 and the beginning of the KDE 4 era.

and

The KDE 4 Desktop has gained some major new capabilities.

and

Lots of KDE Applications have seen improvements as well.

and

KDE 4.0 is the innovative Free Software desktop containing lots of applications for every day use as well as for specific purposes.

I wish the KDE fanboys (and the KDE developers themselves) would stop trying to rewrite recent history and just admit there were mistakes made.

Re:1 question (4, Insightful)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632881)

KDE was adamantly clear that KDE 4.0 was not a 'user' release, but was solely for third party developers to actually get involved and start porting, and to make a difference. A pure developer preview. KDE 4.1 was stabilizing third party apps and the platform. KDE 4.2 is the first user-centric general use release for 4.x. It's not their fault that apparently many users and distributors didn't listen or care.

Of COURSE it's their fault. They were FORCED to explain that time and time again because they deliberately chose version numbers that say the exact opposite.

Besides, IMHO, 4.0 wasn't fit for developers either. Even in 4.2, they're STILL calling some of the APIs experimental.

Re:1 question (1)

the_B0fh (208483) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632927)

I'm so damn glad that someone here knew what was going on. I can't believe there're so many mucking forons in the world who can't read or comprehend simple english. "not for end users" apparently is not simply enough.

Re:1 question (4, Informative)

kilgortrout (674919) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632947)

KDE was adamantly clear that KDE 4.0 was not a 'user' release, but was solely for third party developers to actually get involved and start porting, and to make a difference.

Well, here's the original release announcement for KDE 4.0:

http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/ [kde.org]

Now can we please stop with this revisionist history.

Re:1 question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632451)

Well for the $ MS charges for their Desktop and Server software, it had better be bug free or close to it. You see, KDE and Gnome, in spite of whatever problems or features they may have, are free and open source. Use it for what it is or improve it. At least they aren't selling a half finished product for a premium!

Straw man? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632595)

Is this what's called a straw man argument? I guess it's possible you aren't trolling and actually missed all the criticism free software (and especially KDE) has received.

Linus Torvalds himself thinks KDE 4 is a 'disaster' and I'm sure you'll find many who agree with him on this slashdot story, just as you'll find people who don't but trying to make it look like free software get no criticism and everyone is bashing Microsoft? That's just bullshit.
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/24/1842218 [slashdot.org]

Re:1 question (0, Flamebait)

Greg_D (138979) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632697)

You get one version of KDE.

Slow.

Re:1 question (-1, Troll)

the_B0fh (208483) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632889)

That's because you're a mucking foron who can't read. 4.0 was not released for end users. 4.0 was released so that all the 3rd party developers can have a framework to develop against. That was why 4.0 was released with a big "not for end users" note.

If your distro used it as the primary environment, then both you and your distro were fools. Else, just you.

Re:1 question (1)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632891)

It's laughable that /. bashes Windows for it's SP2 is functional development but has little to no criticism for open source software(and especially KDE). If somebody releases x.0 I expect it to be functional with major bugs as they should be caught in alpha/beta/rc. Should we have to wait for KDE4.5 instead?

That's the beauty of Linux that you won't find in neither OSX nor Windows. We can bitch and moan about KDE while we log off and log back in using Gnome, XFCE, or even KDE 3.5. It's that simple.

Now if you don't like the new Windows or OSX interface... well, sorry. Life's a bitch! Get used to it. Oh, and thanx for the cash.

/.'ed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26631483)

Server's down,

the overlords have arrived...

Re:/.'ed... (2, Informative)

BPPG (1181851) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631569)

slashdotted after 4 minutes.

Although mind you, slashdot's probably not the only site with member flocking to the KDE forums right now.

Re:/.'ed... (4, Insightful)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631639)

What kind of madness is it to link a dynamic forum message to slashdot? It is really irresponsible as there may be actual people needing to post/reply to that forum. What happened to linking a basic .txt file as "release notes.txt", even pdf wouldn't crash a server.

If I was a KDE user/ 4 adopter and needed official help, I would be really pissed now.

give up (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26631529)

you lost.

Thanks to the KDE 4 Devs! (5, Insightful)

CajunArson (465943) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631541)

I've been tracking the 4.2 betas on Kubuntu's repositories, and the final release is working very nicely. KDE 4.2 is finally at a stage where the 4 series can replace the 3.5 series for the large majority of users, and I've been using KDE since 2.0 came out.

Now I know there are going to be a ton of complaints about how "broken" KDE 4 is... but I have my own response to the critics [blogspot.com] . Is KDE 4.2 perfect? No, but I challenge you to show me a desktop that is "perfect". KDE 4 has finally gained critical mass, and even more great stuff is in store.

Thanks again to all the KDE 4 developers and bug testers who kept working even when it wasn't easy or popular! Your perseverance has paid off.

Re:Thanks to the KDE 4 Devs! (5, Funny)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631865)

KDE 4 has finally gained critical mass

Yes, in the pyrotechnic sense of the term.

Re:Thanks to the KDE 4 Devs! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632117)

Hear hear.
I upgraded my kubuntu (via the spechul repo) a few hours ago, and I am actually amazed.

KDE Devs, don't let the trolls get you down. KDE rocks.

A couple of questions (-1, Troll)

mangu (126918) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632311)

1) does it have the "kde classic" icon theme?
I got used to the look of those icons, why should I change, unless there's a *compelling* reason to do so? (no, your opinion that such and such icons are prettier is definitely not compelling enough for me to memorize a totally different set of icons)

2) does it have the K menu working exactly the same way it did in KDE 3?
Again, it works for me, why should I change unless it's definitely a better alternative?

3) does the taskbar work exactly the same way it did in KDE 3?
ditto

Attention, KDE developers: users do not care how much easier the developer's job has become with KDE 4. If the user's interface changes, it should be for the better. Not slightly better, not better for some people. If it does not become absolutely better for everybody without exception, or, at least, better enough for the vast majority of people, then please do NOT change the user interface.

Remember this, we, the users, do not care for eye candy, we do not care for how much better the system is for developers. We USE the computer, we do not play with it. The computer should HELP us, not get in our way. If we have to learn new things, it should be only things that make our life so much easier it's worth learning new things. Otherwise, let KDE 3.5.9 alone, it's a wonderful system.

Re:A couple of questions (3, Insightful)

CajunArson (465943) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632395)

1. Icons: If you like the old ones so much import them. Due to the fact that the "old" KDE had multiple sets of Icons there was never any "one" set of icons that were the perfect standard for all time anyway. Nice attempt at a troll though.

2. K-menu working the same as the old one: YES and it has existed since KDE 4.0. If you read my post you would have seen exactly how to add it as well.. although that might require using a mouse in a slightly different way than the exact way you claimed you used to do in in KDE 3.5 so maybe it's beyond your comprehension.

3. The taskbar manages tasks and can group them together or not group them together and can have one or more rows depending upon how you configure it. I'm sorry if one task item might be off by one pixel which would cause you to have a cardiac infarction.

Let me guess: You never actually used KDE 3 and your trolling... AND the next post about KDE 4 will be how much you hate it because you don't think the developers have added anything new & exciting whily also making KDE 4 a carbon-copy of KDE 3 for no reason other than the fact you cannot make minute adjustments to some simple changes.

Re:A couple of questions (0, Troll)

mangu (126918) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632709)

Let me guess: You never actually used KDE 3 and your trolling...

You guessed wrong, I have been using KDE exclusively since 1998, except for my gaming M$ machine. I just want to use my computer to do its job exactly the way it has always done, I don't want to be retrained unless it's an improvement. I think a new user interface is OK, but the old functions should be the default ones.

A new set of icons? Sure, anyone is free to install it. I did import the kde classic icon theme once, I don't want to redo that job again and again just because some developer is too lazy to create a function to import the settings file automatically. The old K menu? It should be there by DEFAULT. Don't like the traditional K menu? Delete it! Do not force people to ADD things or LEARN things just to keep it working the way it did before.

The change from KDE 3 to 4 should have been as smooth as "apt-get dist-upgrade" and then working exactly as before but, from time to time, finding this neat new function that makes one say "wow, this is great!". It should not make one stop everything one was doing until one learns how to configure things.

The problem with KDE developers is that they started thinking KDE is the center of the universe. Well, it isn't. Computers exist to make things easy. I use a computer as a tool, I don't want to be distracted from my job or from my hobby just because some user interface developer thinks he has had a great new idea.

Re:A couple of questions (4, Insightful)

jmorris42 (1458) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632501)

> Remember this, we, the users, do not care for eye candy, we do not care for how
> much better the system is for developers.

Bull. You don't care for eye candy. I don't care for eye candy. End users care. No matter how hard we wish it were otherwise it remains a fact. And if the new stuff makes things easier for developers it usually means more stuff gets developed. And remember, users don't buy an OS for what IT does, they buy for the applications they can run on it. So if KDE4 enables better apps to get written faster that benefits users.

As someone who has used GNOME since it first replaced FVWM95 as RedHat's default DE I'm starting to consider KDE. The last of the license issues (that launched GNOME in the first place) are finally fixed and GNOME has been making it crystal clear I'm not in their target audience for years.

Why?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26631611)

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but I only ever used MS-DOS, Windows 3.11 up to Windows XP and then switched to Mac (10.4 and 10.5). I also installed Ubuntu with default settings.

My question is: why would people want to install KDE on Windows or Mac? To mess with system-wide capabilities? To break applications that weren't tested on anything but their default desktop settings?

Re:Why?! (-1, Redundant)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631691)

call it a "dumb question" doesn't do that justice.

Re:Why?! (0)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632229)

If you don't give Konqueror new territory from time to time, it kills you in your sleep.

Re:Why?! (3, Insightful)

zach_the_lizard (1317619) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632369)

The port of KDE to Windows or Mac OS X isn't so that you can have a full KDE desktop. It's so that some of the apps that people would like to run on other platforms, such as Konqueror and Amarok, will be available. Their hopes are that eventually you'll find yourself using only KDE apps and wonder, "Why don't I just switch to Linux w/KDE?" As an example of this, I am running Amarok 2 on Windows.

Re:Why?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632409)

So, KDE is kinda like a JAVA interpreter/environment?

Does your "Amarok 2" looks like a native Windows application or is it KDE-styled and looks out-of-place?

Re:Why?! (2, Informative)

zach_the_lizard (1317619) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632721)

Amarok looks somewhat between "native" and "out of place."

The menubar looks like it should in Windows. Any non-custom buttons look native too. However, the buttons to the left for "Files" and "Playlists," etc. are skinned to look the same.

Konqueror looks okay.

A "Windows 7" release? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26631655)

This is actually the first KDE 4.x release that I'm proud to say I use. Unlike the disastrous KDE 4.0 and a somewhat less disastrous KDE 4.1, I thought that KDE was going down the road traveled by Microsoft with Vista. KDE 4.0 was Windows Vista. Bloated. Slow. But it had potential. KDE 4.1 was a bit better; Windows Vista SP1. It was getting there. But did it amount to its fullest potential? Nope. I feel KDE 4.2 is pretty damn close to fulfilling it, just like Windows 7.

There are still some slight problems I have with KDE 4.2, but I assume they'll be fixed in a bug release later. Kudos go to the KDE devs.

No Critisism of F/OSS? (0)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631753)

Its no secret that the majority of /. users Are WINDOWS users. Linux users happen just to be "The Largest Minority". People here attack F/OSS Software almost constant. It never stops. Trolls, astrotufers, you name it, they troll it.

Windows users and OSX users are going to attack Linux users on every front in every way endlessly and relentlessly.

Re:No Critisism of F/OSS? (2, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631787)

I think KDE gets quite enough criticism ;)

Re:No Critisism of F/OSS? (4, Informative)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631813)

KDE 4 series runs natively on OS X and Windows. I think good willing ones will try KDE 4 and it will serve to Linux/FreeBSD eventually.

KDE has been always targeted by trolls, it is not a FOSS matter, it is side effect of "desktop wars" and even GTK/Qt philosophy, C vs. C++ thing.

Re:No Critisism of F/OSS? (3, Funny)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631913)

By that I believe you meant that KDE is targeted by jealous trolls because Qt is so much better than GTK. ::ducks::

Re:No Critisism of F/OSS? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26631925)

Windows users and OSX users are going to attack Linux users on every front in every way endlessly and relentlessly.

I don't know if that's real fair to say. Linux users have a stigma (right or wrong) of being egotistical holier-than-thou types, from the new user newsgroups and IRC channels, all the way to here. Linux users are very quick to point out why your way sucks and why their way is better and clearly more superior, even if your only fault is that you use a different text editor. Moreover, the entire site of Slashdot is one big Microsoft troll, right down to the sarcastic and biased headlines and summaries, through to the tired 1-line comments marked +5 (has anyone made a joke about how Balmer likes to throw chairs lately?)

I don't see a lot of Windows and OSX users going around attacking Linux users. I do see a lot of Linux users who go around attacking anything that doesn't involve compiling your operating system.

Re:No Critisism of F/OSS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632069)

Maybe, but ... what does that have to do with anything?

Re:No Critisism of F/OSS? (4, Interesting)

mr_matticus (928346) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632201)

"People here attack F/OSS Software almost constant."

People here attack proprietary software almost constantly, and in far greater numbers, too. There are an equal number of trolls and astroturfers on both sides, which is impressive considering the proposition that most "/. users Are WINDOWS users", as if that means they automatically support proprietary software or are automatically opposed to open source solutions.

Windows crashing jokes and Apple cult jokes are okay, but Linux pile of half-broken crap jokes aren't? Develop a sense of humor, because guess what, there are pros and cons to everything, and not everyone has to have a religious devotion to everything discussed.

Windows has its uses. Proprietary software has its uses. Linux has its uses. Open source software...you get the picture. People can make choices. Developers are free to release their code with an iron fist heavily slanted in their favor, or they can send it out into the world with no strings attached, or they can find some suitable middle ground. All approaches are valid. People are free to choose to walk into limitations--everything has them: Windows, OS X, Linux all have flaws.

If Linux users get attacked constantly, it's that small subset of "Linux users" who believe that There Can Be Only One Software Model and that TEH LINUX IS PERFECT. They are trolls, astroturfers, and zealots themselves.

Re:No Critisism of F/OSS? (1)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632489)

I am rather tough on Linux myself, but constructively tough.

Cool (2, Interesting)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631777)

It's good to hear KDE isn't garbage anymore.

Unfortunately, for all its cool tech, I still find the default look and feel hideous.

Is there some kind of "style" they're going for or is everything just kind of randomly put together or what?

Re:Cool (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26631821)

Hey, no Windows bashing here, this thread is about KDE!

Oh wait, you were talking about KDE.

Sorry, force of habit. Carry on.

Re:Cool (3, Insightful)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631851)

I have a feeling the day when I can say "It's good to hear Windows isn't garbage anymore," is far, far away.

Re:Cool (5, Funny)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631983)

Hey, no one in Slashdot think that Windows is garbage. Is unfair, offensive, and without basis. Why you hate garbage so badly?

Oxygen (2, Interesting)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631963)

Well, in the infancy of KDE 4, there was this project that was supposed to provide a consistent look and feel to KDE called Oxygen.

The early mockups looked fairly different from the first incarnation, and both look very different from what we have today.

Overall, it does look more consistent and polished. The taskbar looks sharp. The plasma theme looks sharp. The Oxygen widgets and window decorations are still plain and boring. I also still don't understand how Oxygen was largely plain white with no contrast for a year, where as the Plasma theme and taskbar was plain and black.

It was jarring and inconsistent.

However, the icons (save for the horrible folder icon) do present a very consistent, very professional appearance. It is hard to argue with the icon set on the whole.

I just want to see an Oxygen set for OpenOffice. I know OpenOffice isn't a KDE project, but most every distro ships with OpenOffice, and it would be nice for integration to see some Oxygen-based icons for OpenOffice.

Re:Oxygen (1)

civilizedINTENSITY (45686) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632259)

I kept 4.0, and then 4.1 around just to log in occasionally and enjoy the beauty. Didn't take long for me to head back to GNOME to get things done, though. If the stability has improved, its going to be a big deal. To the GP, well..., some say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Others suggest (golden ratio, etc...) that our brains are hardwired for certain attractions. Whatever. To me, KDE4's styling is fantastic.

Re:Oxygen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632317)

The color settings improved quite a bit in 4.1. Did you try another color theme?

Nice improvements (4, Interesting)

digitalderbs (718388) | more than 5 years ago | (#26631951)

I just upgraded on kubuntu 8.10 [kubuntu.org] , and I'm very happy with it. It's considerably more polished than 4.1. The dialogs look more polished, the eye candy is faster and smoother, the new taskbar looks great -- and you can now have other applications cover the taskbar.

I was thinking of switching to XFCE this week (after about 8 years on KDE), but I think I'll hold off.

good job devs!

Re:Nice improvements (1)

pseudonomous (1389971) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632279)

I DID switch to XFCE, and while I think XFCE (and, importantly, not Xubuntu or some loaded up XFCE based distro, but a plain, vanilla XFCE) is THE desktop environment for a low-resource system (your only real alternative are WMs), I think that I'm going back to KDE, now that I've got a quad core phenom w/ an onboard Radeon HD 3300. It's a seriously, beautiful Desktop, but MAN, this thing is a heavy weight.

Re:Nice improvements (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632823)

Sure is a heavy-weight. Yeah, I mean, far-out....

Wait....I'm using it on my OpenMoko phone.

Oh well, I guess you suck.

Re:Nice improvements (1)

muchmusic (45065) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632503)

Are you looking forward to April's release? I'll try it out tonight with 4.2

Future Roadmap (4, Interesting)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632053)

Now that KDE has laid the framework for development, and recreated most of the features from KDE 3 as well, where do they go from here? Can they do something truly innovative?

(No, widgets aren't innovative).

The folderview, as a fullscreen containment with wallpaper theming is a plus. I'm looking for other innovations in how we interact with software.

Adjusting dialogs and the interface to work well on small form factors is another step in the right direction, but honestly I think they also need an Oxygen-widget derivative specifically for minimalist screens.

Multi-touch gestures are trendy, but other than mobile devices, I don't expect to touch my PC screen.

The concept of a fully-realized semantic desktop sounds interesting, but is currently half-baked at best.

Would it be a crime for KDE to steal some of the better innovations from OS X and Windows 7? Should KDE offer an official dock, or revamp the taskbar? What about both?

Kwin, for all its nifty-ness could take a few pages from Windows 7.

What about a crazy concept? People keep talking about a Web OS, cloud computing, etc. I've seen a proof of concept of Plasmoids served via a web plugin. KDE runs natively on Mac, Windows, Linux and Solaris today. What if you could store your KDE desktop settings and sessions online?

Sit at any computer with most any OS, and have your desktop. Plasmoids that aren't installed locally could even be served up online.

Where do you think KDE should go in the future?

Re:Future Roadmap (2, Funny)

pseudonomous (1389971) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632373)

Q: Would it be a crime for KDE to steal some of the better innovations from OS X and Windows 7?

A: Only if they're patented

Re:Future Roadmap (3, Interesting)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632533)

Considering how similar is Windows 7 interface is to KDE 4 one, seems that Microsoft made himself a similar question and found that KDE innovations weren't patented.

Re:Future Roadmap (1)

mangu (126918) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632457)

People keep talking about a Web OS, cloud computing, etc

The most innovative thing KDE did in this respect was having the same application, Konqueror, act both as a web browser and file manager. Then, what did they do to improve this? Fix Konqueror's faults? No, that would have been too easy. They created the most stupid file manager I ever saw, Dolphin, to take the place of Konqueror as a file manager.

Re:Future Roadmap (3, Informative)

dr00p (56154) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632781)

If I remember right, IE was the first filemanager/browser in one. I believe it was IE3.0 ...

Re:Future Roadmap (2, Insightful)

Rod Beauvex (832040) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632857)

And if I remember correctly, IE/Windows is evil for this exact behavior.

Re:Future Roadmap (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632863)

Konqueror still is, and will continue be both a web browser and file manager...

In fact, you can set it as the default file manager in KDE 4.2 if you want...

I personally do like Dolphin, just after shifting things around a bit...

Re:Future Roadmap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632549)

I would like to see, at the very least, Plasma expand beyond *nix. The Plasma plugin idea is a very interesting one. I remember reading about it as well. Perhaps one day plasma could enable some pretty sweet web pages.

Some of the KDE4 themes are adding interesting features. For example, IIRC, the latest Bespin theme allows you to have a separate menu bar, such as on Mac OS X. An official dock may be nice, if it can be removed at will. I don't really like the Dock myself, but some do.

I would also like the Webkit K-part to get some lovin', perhaps even always being installed. The KHTML/Webkit split needs to be evaluated. What is gained by ending KHTML? What is lost?

I would like to see the option to have multiple sources for downloading themes. At least it should allow us to point to a local tar.gz and let us install it from there. I'm too lazy to untar it myself =).

For now, they should keep squashing bugs. KDE 4.2 is a huge improvement (even when I was using it from SVN, since, like June or August), but I bet it could use a little more work.

On a related note (1)

LighterShadeOfBlack (1011407) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632087)

It's also a great day for sweeping statements.

Guys are you kidding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632147)

To all the flamers:

1. Free Software
You didn't pay anything for this software. No one paid the developers anything for this software. You have the capacity to change this software if you don't like something about it.

2. Don't like it, don't use it
No one is forcing you to upgrade to KDE 4. If you don't think it's ready, don't use it, use KDE 3, gnome, or whatever else you want.

So how do you build it from source? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632383)

Simple question...

Vista clone (-1, Flamebait)

colourmyeyes (1028804) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632691)

Cool, they duplicated the Vista/Windows 7 look almost down to a T.

Re:Vista clone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26632779)

It's the other way around...

The definite article? (1)

kurtdriver (897294) | more than 5 years ago | (#26632995)

"The desktop environment for Linux, Windows, Mac, and (Open)Solaris" The definite article! Oh Really?
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