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81 comments

Oh Real clouds (3, Funny)

jgtg32a (1173373) | more than 5 years ago | (#26713517)

I thought this was some new bit torrent technique using the cloud or something.

Looks like its lunch time

Re:Oh Real clouds (3, Funny)

impaledsunset (1337701) | more than 5 years ago | (#26713679)

That's exactly what it's all about. When you seed from the cloud, the torrents run better.

Re:Oh Real clouds (2, Funny)

clem (5683) | more than 5 years ago | (#26713933)

Only if your seed is pure.

Re:Oh Real clouds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26713979)

Only if your seed is pure.

Only men need apply?

Re:Oh Real clouds (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26715121)

I don't mind donating some to the women. It would be my pleasure.

Re: Impotant Note (1)

bosef1 (208943) | more than 5 years ago | (#26727947)

"The gun is good. The penis is evil. The penis shoots seeds, and makes new life to poison the Earth with a plague of men, as once it was, but the gun shoots death, and purifies the Earth of the filth of brutals. Go forth . . . and kill!"

Re:Oh Real clouds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26716689)

Wait, you mean "cloud computing" isn't done with real clouds?

Am I Missing Something? (3, Informative)

Jon.Laslow (809215) | more than 5 years ago | (#26713537)

Linked article points to Spray-On Solar Panels... Huh?

Re:Am I Missing Something? (3, Funny)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#26713689)

Idiot. The point is clear to the rest of us: you spray the solar panels on the sides of underpowered clouds, and they're then capable of producing fully fledged rainstorms. If you just want a bit of rain now and then, you can use half a spray-on panel, with dodgy spray-on wiring.

Re:Am I Missing Something? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Monkey (795756) | more than 5 years ago | (#26714067)

I thought it was because every time I try to use solar powered anything the weather turns bad. Therefore if we cover Mojave with solar panels it will become a rain forest.

Re:Am I Missing Something? (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 5 years ago | (#26718861)

Only if you move there.

Get packing. The earth needs you!

Re:Am I Missing Something? (1)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#26718919)

Actually, that's starting to sound like Gaia Theory :)

Little-known law of solar panel use (1)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#26722769)

every time I try to use solar powered anything the weather turns bad.

Everyone thinks solar panels are unreliable due to bad weather. In fact, it's just a small technical issue that while installing, that beginners misinterpret. That "bad weather" on the solar panel is your shadow.

Re:Am I Missing Something? (1)

madsenj37 (612413) | more than 5 years ago | (#26719389)

Right site, wrong link. Try here [cosmosmagazine.com] .

Summary != Link (1)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 5 years ago | (#26713547)

What I like best about this article is how the link has absolutely NOTHING to do with the summary.

So what shall we talk about?

Re:Summary != Link (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26713607)

how ARE you?</tobias>

Timothy, missing link (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26717519)

Well, timothy posted the non-story headline, so let's talk about timothy.

Re:Summary != Link (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26718085)

So what shall we talk about?

How the Slashdot "editors" often don't deserve the title? I mean, you don't have actually even READ the article to avoid looking like a complete tool. You could just click the damned link to make sure the title matches. Heck, in this case, they didn't even have to do that much; the URL includes the title in it:

www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/2511/spray-solar-panels-developed

Gah, and people actually pay for this site. I mean, I enjoy reading it and have for years, but it's still to me nothing but a bunch of well-meaning amateurs.

Proper URL and text (5, Informative)

grogglefroth (461680) | more than 5 years ago | (#26713627)

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/2514/major-study-proves-cloud-seeding-effective [cosmosmagazine.com]

SYDNEY: A 45-year Australian trial is the best evidence yet that could seeding - the practice of artificially inducing clouds to make rain - really works.

Since the mid-20th century scientists have attempted to produce rain by dispersing chemical substances into the clouds and stimulating precipitation. However, until now, there has been little concrete scientific evidence that cloud seeding is effective.

"This is the first time that an independent analysis of cloud seeding data over several decades has shown a statistically significant increase in rainfall," said Steven Siems, a meteorologist from Monash University in Melbourne and leader of the study.

Significant finding

The Monash team, in conjunction with renewable energy firm Hydro Tasmania, analysed monthly rainfall patterns over the hydroelectric catchment area between May and October from 1960 until 2005.

As they detailed in the Journal of Applied Meteorology and Climatology the analysis revealed higher levels of rain in the parts of the catchment where the rain making technique was used than in those where it was not.

"A number of independent statistical tests showed a consistent increase of at least five per cent in monthly rainfall over the catchment area," said Siems.

For the could seeding technique, the researchers select clouds using specialist weather radar technology that allows them to see all the tiny processes that take place within them.

Once clouds for seeding are chosen, minute particles of a silver compound are dusted into them by light aircraft to stimulate rain formation.

Super-cooled water

Anthony Morrison, a climatologist at Monash and co-author of the study, explained that these silver particles cause super-cooled water in the clouds to freeze. As these particular clouds are so high in the atmosphere that they are below freezing point, the frozen drops recruit water and get heavier causing them to fall from the clouds as rain.

However, the researchers caution that the result may be due to the unique clouds in this part of Tasmania and would be difficult to reproduce elsewhere.

"Clouds over the Southern Ocean are different to any other clouds", Siems told Cosmos Online. "They are really loaded with super cool liquid water." Just as important, he said, is the remoteness of the location: "the air in the Southern Ocean is exceptionally clean with virtually no pollution."

And the researchers are still at a loss to precisely explain how the technique was successful.

"They're really not comparable to clouds that have been seeded anywhere else in the world," said Morrison. "Further field measurements of cloud microphysics over the region are needed to provide a physical basis for these statistical results."

Despite the caveats, other experts are excited by the results.

"At long last there is scientific backup for the [cloud seeding] hypothesis that has been suggested over the years," commented Roger Stone, director of the Australian Centre for Sustainable Catchments at the University of Southern Queensland in Toowoomba.

However, while the study is a breakthrough, he noted that cloud seeding does not work in all locations and specific techniques have to be developed for each region.

"For example, in Queensland the conditions are highly different. It has to be the right time and exactly the right cloud for it to work," he said. "The key is to get a very good weather radar."

Let it snow

Paul Johnson, a spokesperson from Snowy Hydro, who are conducting similar experiments to artificial induce snowfall in Victoria's Snowy Mountains, said the results were promising. "It's another indicator that supports our preliminary data and backs up what the experts said in the beginning. That we would see an increase in snow."

Because of the unusual nature of the Tasmanian clouds, additional studies may be needed to determine if the cloud seeding really was the cause of the increase in rainfall.

"Unfortunately, very little cloud physics research has been associated with the cloud seeding experiment in Tasmania, so that we are at the full mercy of the statistics," commented Daniel Rosenfeld, a climatologist from Hebrew University of Jerusalem in Israel.

"Clouds do not distinguish between the impacts of aerosols based on our intentions when we disperse them," he said. "Therefore, understanding cloud seeding and impacts of air pollution is inseparable."

Pollution effects

Rosenfeld has previously worked on computer models of weather systems to understand the effects of cloud manipulation, and he admitted it is difficult to directly link cloud seeding with weather patterns.

"It has been much easier to detect impacts of air pollution, because we pollute the clouds at a much grander scale than we seed them intentionally," he said.

Siems said the new study may have wider implications. He hopes the research highlights the importance of weather radar technology and will pave the way for a better understanding of weather patterns.

"The more we understand precipitation and the better climate models we have, the closer we will be to understanding droughts," he said, a significant problem in Australia.

Re:Proper URL and text (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26720193)

This full text needs to be deleted, this is copyright infringement.

Re:Proper URL and text (1)

DimmO (1179765) | more than 5 years ago | (#26720985)

as long as the Article Industry Association of America (AIAA) doesn't see it, you'll be ok; you won't get sued.

Now if only California can use this... (4, Interesting)

Praedon (707326) | more than 5 years ago | (#26713631)

...Wildfires are pretty tough out there, so why not use this method?

Correct link by the way: http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/2514/major-study-proves-cloud-seeding-effective [cosmosmagazine.com]

Re:Now if only California can use this... (1, Interesting)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#26713895)

...Wildfires are pretty tough out there, so why not use this method?

Because screwing with the environment is not the answer to damage being done by screwing with the environment?

Re:Now if only California can use this... (0)

von_rick (944421) | more than 5 years ago | (#26714651)

+1

I remember reading an article last year on how the Chinese government was prepared to take preventive measures during the Beijing Olympics' opening and closing ceremonies. They wanted the event to go smoothly, so they had teams of scientists and climatologists ready to prevent any occurrence of rain.

The goal of Chinese officials was the exact opposite of the Australian ones, but the point is - having the ability to change the climactic cycle doesn't mean you have to use it, much less abuse it!

Re:Now if only California can use this... (1)

JSBiff (87824) | more than 5 years ago | (#26714013)

Yeah. . . first you need some clouds to seed. I'm not sure, but I believe that you will not often find the confluence of clouds suitable for seeding at the same time and location that you have a wildfire?

Re:Now if only California can use this... (1)

dov_0 (1438253) | more than 5 years ago | (#26719825)

AFAIK we've never used it on fires as it's not able to produce the necessary rainfall in the middle of summer when there are no real clouds around anyway. Perhaps it could be useful though in making use of any weather change that comes through before clouds move on elsewhere.

Not sure how our laws (Summary Offences Act, Victoria) would affect that also. The Act has one section which makes it an offence to seed clouds without permission - from whom I cannot recall.

We have fires as bad as you in California, in fact some of your firefighters serve over here and vice versa. Maybe it will be used one day if appropriate clouds are in the area.

Re:Now if only California can use this... (3, Informative)

3waygeek (58990) | more than 5 years ago | (#26714353)

Well, California has been cloud seeding since 1948 [wikipedia.org] , with varying degrees of success. I suppose another arrow in the quiver couldn't hurt.

Re:Now if only California can use this... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26715733)

The British Ministry of Defence were experimenting in the early 50s. Unfortunately, they were a bit too successful [bbc.co.uk] and killed 34 people when the village of Lynmouth was washed away.

Re:Now if only California can use this... (3, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 5 years ago | (#26714441)

I suspect that, if the effect is subtle enough to require a multi-year statistical analysis involving an entire hydro catchment, it'd be only modestly more effective than spitting for dealing with fire.

Might be possible to keep the place a little moister, and thus less prone to fire(likely at the cost of stealing even more water from surrounding areas); but not much more than that.

Re:Now if only California can use this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26714613)

[Now if only California can use this]...Wildfires are pretty tough out there, so why not use this method?

Because mudslides are a bitch?

Re:Now if only California can use this... (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 5 years ago | (#26714777)

Because you need some clouds first.
Clouds with potential.

Re:Now if only California can use this... (1)

Logical Zebra (1423045) | more than 5 years ago | (#26715529)

Wildfires often burn so hot that rain evaporates before it even hits the flames. So that would render your cloud-seeding method of fighting wildfires pretty much worthless.

Re:Now if only California can use this... (1)

troll8901 (1397145) | more than 5 years ago | (#26715769)

When water evaporates, it draws heat away from its surroundings. I don't understand why with enough of a downpour, the water won't reach the wildfire's fuel source.

Take it further (1)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 5 years ago | (#26718329)

Combine this with the ability to put water IN THE AIR. Then allow it to be taken out in Utah and Colorado. That would fill up the reservoirs, which is needed for Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Nv, and Southern Cal via the Colorado River Basin. Then we can skip the need to develop pipes or even in ground water.

Wow (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26713695)

Wow, apparently editors don't even LOOK at TFA these days :P

It's timothy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26718661)

No one really expects much of Timmy anymore. TIM-MAH!

Man has to have his job purely 'cause he's friends with the other people running Slashdot -- not because of merit or anything like that.

Who trained them? (1)

Still an AC (1390693) | more than 5 years ago | (#26718769)

I'd say it's the great training they get from kdawson....

Weather Warfare... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26713739)

here it comes.

Re:Weather Warfare... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26714219)

Actually, weather warfare was used in Vietnam. My father worked on it, documented it, and everyone knew it worked back in the late 1960's. Planes would seed clouds to wash out trails the North Vietnamese used to try and hinder their movements.

Awesome (1)

LearnToSpell (694184) | more than 5 years ago | (#26713755)

Even editors don't read the ONE-LINE summary. (Yeah, I must be new here.)

duh? (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26713983)

omg this has been going on for years, and it has always been known to cause clouds.

now the australians think that they solved it, but only for their particular clouds?

how rediculous is this. russia china and us have been doing this for years. why do you think the ground is always wet before a big military march over there. THEY MAKE IT RAIN SO IT LITERALLY WONT RAIN ON THEIR PARADE.

look into it. its nothing new. and also related to chemtrails. but chemtrails are for other purposes.....

One Tinfoil Hat for You! (1)

CoopersPale (444672) | more than 5 years ago | (#26720547)

And trust me, you won't look 'rediculous' in it

Alternative: (1)

UncleTogie (1004853) | more than 5 years ago | (#26714037)

I myself find great success with the Great American Rain Dance...

...washing my car. Never fails!

Terraforming the Earth (0)

RGRistroph (86936) | more than 5 years ago | (#26714081)

I believe that between fertilizing the oceans with iron, painting all roofs white to increase the albido, and could seeding, we can make this planet just like our native home.

Re:Terraforming the Earth (5, Funny)

R2.0 (532027) | more than 5 years ago | (#26714179)

"painting all roofs white to increase the albido,"

It's "libido" or "albedo". Although I'm not sure what the color of the roof has to do with what goes on underneath it.

Re:Terraforming the Earth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26720357)

"painting all roofs white to increase the albido,"

It's "libido" or "albedo". Although I'm not sure what the color of the roof has to do with what goes on underneath it.

or maybe "albino"? albinos like roofs and clouds

"Chemtrails?" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26714207)

"Once clouds for seeding are chosen, minute particles of a silver compound are dusted into them by light aircraft to stimulate rain formation."

Does cloud seeding explain all of the paranoid "chemtrail" chatter found in the seedy underbelly of the internets?

Re:"Chemtrails?" (2, Funny)

Robotech_Master (14247) | more than 5 years ago | (#26714305)

Well, now, pay attention people
Just in case you hadn't heard
There's some folks messin' 'round
With Mother Nature's little world, baby
And what they do is really freaky
They gets themselves a plane
And they fly it around with chemicals, baby
Tryin' ta make it rain
So when you're out there in that blizzard,
Shiverin' in the cold
Just look up to the sky
And thank the Government for the snow
And sing the low-down, experimental, cloud-seedin',
Who-needs-'em-baby? silver i-i-o-dide blues
Oh, yeah.
Woo!

--C.W. McCall, "Silver Iodide Blues"

Re:"Chemtrails?" (3, Interesting)

Valdrax (32670) | more than 5 years ago | (#26718305)

Does cloud seeding explain all of the paranoid "chemtrail" chatter found in the seedy underbelly of the internets?

No. Crazy doesn't need an explanation. Witness "Morgellons Syndrome," people who think the moon landing was faked, and alien abductees. Some delusions just go viral on their own.

That said, sometimes I wonder if there *is* an explanation. Is there a way to predict what kinds of delusions will go mass delusion and which will stay localized to a few crazies (like Time Cube)? I mean, we know that trans-cranial magnetic stimulation can recreate the paralysis, terror, and hallucinations of an "alien abduction," so there's an underlying biological explanation for this. "Morgellons" (and delusional parasitosis in general) is more common among women over 40. Does that indicate a biological root? On the other hand, I feel skeptical about suggesting a strong biological link behind "the moon landing was faked" crazies; that's probably more the result of cultural influences, but is there any biological reason why that one resonates with some people still in a way that "9/11 was faked" no longer really does for nearly as many people after only 8 years?

Is "chemtrail" chatter the work of one inventive crazy whose explanations got popular among the crowd of paranoids who are easily influenced in that direction, or is there some deeper reason why that pattern of delusion resonates with some people. Is it biological? The result of deep-seated assumptions of our culture and way of life? Just the shallow zeitgeist of the day?

I dunno, but I like to think about this sort of thing. People are just the funniest creatures in creation some days.

Those are not delusions. Misrepresentation of fact (0)

NRAdude (166969) | more than 5 years ago | (#26719447)

Greetings in the nature of network redundancy!

You are confusing a delusion with a misrepresentation of fact. They are both mutually exclusive at most. I met once (and from thorough discussion would admit) a lady over in Orange city of California that has Morgellon's Disease. She even has video on YouTube. [youtube.com] She is not delusional and has accepted that her health difficulties are just an autoimmune response to her cells having incorporated new functions directly from environmental influences not in her comfort or favor. All that she has done to circumvent these unwanted side-effects is to (1) eat better quality of food, (2) greater amounts of exercise, (3) do not patronize companies whose products are found to cause the unwanted effects, and (4) advocate the greater theory that regional emplements of service by companies should be avoided so as to not effect the non-subscribers of their work. It generally is a question of to not give the benefit of a country to neighboring countries; such as changes of weather, water quality, medical support, guards of patrol, pest-control, court-dispute housing, food, and drugs; these should be implemented on a per-houshold basis at the writ of whomever subscribed, not the far-reaching all-implicit exercise of service that is detrimental to the tax-payers that didn't pay for said civil function; this exhausts supply and is unethical from the well-intended regulation of the governing body to properly dispense these services.

M. Gregory Thomas(tm),
Network Redundancy administrator.

No, that's delusion plus medical quackery. (1)

Valdrax (32670) | more than 5 years ago | (#26720493)

I met once (and from thorough discussion would admit) a lady over in Orange city of California that has Morgellon's Disease. She even has video on YouTube. She is not delusional and has accepted that her health difficulties are just an autoimmune response to her cells having incorporated new functions directly from environmental influences not in her comfort or favor.

Sorry, but "accepting" something that has no basis in reality is being delusional. Just where does she get his whole "cells having incorporated new functions" nonsense from in the first place? I'm glad she's losing her tactile hallucinations, but she's not doing it through genuine medicine. If the placebo effect does it for her, then I wish her well.

But she's still crazy. Watch her first video. She goes to a doctor, they tell her what's going on, and she (like every other supposed "Morgellons" sufferer) rejects the diagnosis under the belief that she simply has the ability to tell tactile delusion from reality as if she's an objective observer on the whole situation. Instead, she turns to any solution that involves her body and not her mind, eventually spiraling into pushing quack medicines.

Look at her solution in the video! "NutraSilver?" It's just colloidal silver, a common quack cure for diseases popular in the conspiracy theory community -- gaining popularity during the Y2K scare.

But get this -- the manufacturers claim that their brand of colloidal silver is special because it uses "clustered water" (whatever kind of homeopathic / polywater / physics-defying BS that's supposed to be!) to "vector silver particles to the pathogens" without even once identifying what the pathogen behind Morgellons is supposed to be! Never mind that there's never been evidence of colloidal silver doing anything to bacteria in vivo. Never mind that in vitro studies are inconclusive. Never mind that even the few studies that have suggested an effect only showed an effect to bacteria in a petri dish (and not viruses, protozoans, fungi, or macroparasites). Forget all that -- just how the hell is silver supposed to do anything to an "autoimmune disease" as she calls her disease?

Oh, but even better is the claim that it's totally safe and causes no agyria "because it's pure silver and not a compound." The interesting thing about that is that tests on silver products that showed anti-bacterial effect in a petri dish is that the only ones that did have an effect were the ones that had ionic compounds -- the very compounds that lead to the worst agyria. So, even if silver was as awesome as they said it was, their product is designed to get the least effect out of it. (If you ignore the insane "clustered water" claims. "P-Chem? What's that? Hydrogen bonding? That's stable, right?")

So, what we have is a quack disease with a quack cure. What NutraSilver is claiming is frankly morally horrifying -- a fake cure for a fake disease. Pure con artistry at its finest, selling a potentially dangerous product to a vulnerable population, discouraging them from getting the help they actually need. Disgusting. And she's helping spread the lies.

Thanks for clearing that up for us. (0)

NRAdude (166969) | more than 5 years ago | (#26731779)

Thanks for bumping heads with me. I am verry interested in especially your observation and evidence. What I find odd is how you mis-represent the cause of a Virus to spread through one's cell bodies as incorporated to new functions (metabolic changes, division changes). As well, what other symptoms is she to present to an examiner other than that she has painful fibers of mis-colored thread coming out of her skin and are you saying to me and others reading that there is a premeditated disposition to treat any such evidence as being from a "crazy" subject? Psychology has no basis on the body, nowhere does she have mental psoriasys that you suggest. Perhaps you can point me to the books that you have read other than the typical psychologist default of "hallucination" or "delusion", where in law what you realy intend is a mis-representation of fact no less than incomplete comprehension of the matter; not some Dungeons'n'Dragons hallucination of a spell-caster that you elude to every behest that correlates from a non-injured spectator as yourself.

I'm going to overlook the presentation of how you responded and look just at the facts. I met her, not you; You just saw a YouTube video of a sickly lady. What she and many others are suffering from is moreso a diminished immune system if anything. What you overlook in the quackery department is the origin of its foundations being misapplied at random to perhaps unrelated diseases caused from perhaps undisclosed lifestyle difficulties. I'll tread lightly on your behalf and reason to your favor; Not judging you in any way, I believe we both know the dopamine receptor of the mind to be assured through a positive conjecture that even if it is a "placebo" then that would still be an effect of the mind: what is the body responding to, not the mind? Colloidal (ionic) silver was originally an absolute remedy for hereditary arthritis and a fix for arthritis caused by certain virus that actually deposit calcium in the joints. Sure, she can only endorse a certain product because it's likely her return service in essence of it being effectual. If NutriSilver was recommended to her and even a "placebo" as I believed you to justifiedly say, then that is for her to reason its effects. Again I ask, what is the body doing? If there ever was a conflict of interest then it would be nothing more than that of an inexpensive oil change, and not a weekly grocery bill or even higher-cost a pharmaceutical prescription without end; ionic silver generated and assimilated by one's self is not costly.

I don't "take sides" on any issue, but when someone starts accusing someone of hallucinating to a remedy or allegedly delusional without any reservation referenced to an authority of Wundt or Freud, and yet whomever standing as accused has no spirit of violence and with circumstances that are not out of their hand to fix whatever damages they may have caused or never caused that would inhibit their estate, then I must respectively disagree with your methods as I find them to be delusional and hallucinatory.

If it isn't hurting you, don't insult the mentally ill; mental illness isn't contagous as we both know, however if it were a bodily illness then you should still have nothing to fear because from what you said prior that the body and mind are one and the same illusion of the nervous systems' conception.

I guess it's somthing you have to see for yourself to verified accounts, not the side of quackery you may attest to have met that I would agree may be the consultancy of a Folie'a'Deux aspect of schizzofrenia working its way through to Morgellon's Disease sysmptoms. I find that quite revealing.

My pen is fading, so I hope I don't sound too abrash towards you. I'm a more calming effect talking in person than what tends to be met here as though a mis-mannered viking hacking at every thought, and I do appreciate your oberservations over the contrite people suffering from what is alleged mere hallucinations and delusions; perhaps psoriasis or acne, some bugged-out eyes, loss of hair, weak joints, digestive problems, fatigue, and a pale gaze. Those are symptoms of the endocrine system more likely. I know Abbot Laboratories is selling a Meal Replacement Nutrition Supplement(R), titled ENSURE(tm), chock full of the L-DOPA enhancing dihydroxyl phenylalanine that would masque many of those properties to whomever doesn't have an immune system to react to it, but that is not addressing the root cause. Most people that attest to some degree of Morgellon's Disease all find the same remedy: better quality and organic food, get away from the industrialization centers of populated cities, get lots of exercise to counter hypoxia of any degree. That's not insane, that's just a lifestyle change; you know what happens when you eat an imbalanced diet; it hits you later on in life.

m. Gregory Thomas(tm)

Re:"Chemtrails?" (1)

martinX (672498) | more than 5 years ago | (#26721093)

That stuff about Morgellons was amazing. I occasionally have the sensation described, but I don't think any more of it. Our 4 year old son occasionally has "itchy all over" feelings, though. Sometimes it manifests acutely in times of high stress, so we figure he's putting it on, though it's possible he "feels" it. Maybe it could be a histamine release because of the high stress, which would make the sensation real physically and mentally. Making light of it and scratching him all over can both relieve any itching (real or imagined) and defuse the situation - who doesn't like an all over scratch?

Anyway, I am reminded of a case I learned about in Immunology. An older woman was on high dose corticosteroids. She developed red weeping eyelash roots. My description doesn't do the pic justice. Turns out the corticosteroids were having an immunosuppressive effect (no surprises there) and the small parasites living in the eyelash follicles were able to breed uncontrollably. This was confirmed microscopically and she was treated successfully. Kicker is, most people have these parasites but a well functioning immune system keeps them in check. Remember that next time you get itchy eyelids...

Re:"Chemtrails?" (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#26726625)

Does cloud seeding explain all of the paranoid "chemtrail" chatter found in the seedy underbelly of the internets?

No. Crazy doesn't need an explanation. Witness "Morgellons Syndrome," people who think the moon landing was faked, and alien abductees. Some delusions just go viral on their own.

I'm not saying that the chemtrail thing is true, I will only say that "the government said so" is not an adequate disexplanation. Perhaps it is 100% bullshit, but the federal government has used the general populace as guinea pigs repeatedly - so it's easy to believe. Perhaps bullshit conspiracy theories feed on the fact that there are so many real conspiracies designed to bone the public out of something for the benefit of the few?

Is "chemtrail" chatter the work of one inventive crazy whose explanations got popular among the crowd of paranoids who are easily influenced in that direction, or is there some deeper reason why that pattern of delusion resonates with some people.

Chemtrails resonate with people because we are living in a time when it is clear that burning fossil fuels for energy is fucking stupid (should have been made obvious by the industrial revolution, but anyway) and there the jets are, spreading pollution overhead, and leaving behind a visible cloud. We learned in elementary school that clouds form on particulate matter, so we equate these clouds with pollution, and lots of it.

If the federal government had a little more credibility, then perhaps people might believe them when they say that there is nothing going on outside the realm of ordinary aeronautic activity.

Spend a few days at my house, looking up, and you might start to believe it, too. But in the absence of proof, there are only two rational responses: abandon the search and call it good, or keep looking and try not to make assumptions.

Re:"Chemtrails?" (1)

Valdrax (32670) | more than 5 years ago | (#26728693)

I'm not saying that the chemtrail thing is true, I will only say that "the government said so" is not an adequate disexplanation.

I already got a Morgellons believer, so I'm not surprised I picked up someone defending the chemtrails conspiracy belief. The problem with conspiracy theorists is that there is absolutely nobody who will be trusted with evidence of disproof or of unlikeliness. The government itself? Obviously untrustworthy! Atmospheric scientists and aeronautical engineers? In on the fix. Their very denials are proof enough! So, who is good enough to listen to?

Perhaps it is 100% bullshit, but the federal government has used the general populace as guinea pigs repeatedly - so it's easy to believe. Perhaps bullshit conspiracy theories feed on the fact that there are so many real conspiracies designed to bone the public out of something for the benefit of the few?

So, you're arguing for primarily cultural roots for the belief? Alright, then. I wonder in the alternative if it has to do with the fact that contrails are an easily observable part of life and whether our brains are wired to assume strange phenomena have unpleasant causes -- angry gods and other inhuman forces, invisible pathogens, too powerful governments, foreigners and people of other races, etc. -- rather than mundane or internal causes. Might it be the result of a survival adaptation that occasionally produces bad results in the modern world?

We learned in elementary school that clouds form on particulate matter, so we equate these clouds with pollution, and lots of it.

While the particulates help, the real primary cause of contrails is the sudden addition of extra water vapor from combustion (at higher elevations) or lower pressure vortexes from the wingtips and other surfaces (at lower levels). It's not primarily a "seeding" effect.

Spend a few days at my house, looking up, and you might start to believe it, too. But in the absence of proof, there are only two rational responses: abandon the search and call it good, or keep looking and try not to make assumptions.

The area I grew up in was a major crossing point for airplane routes. It wasn't all that unusual to be able to see three commercial airliners in the sky at the same time at least once a day, and a sky without a contrail in it was a rare occurrence. So, I'm not at all buying the circa 1996 theory that lingering trails are the result of special chemicals -- I've seen lingering trails for nearly two decades before that, and I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve the idea that atmospheric conditions have something to do with it. Contrails are just like any other cloud once formed.

As for absence of proof... There is absolutely no evidence that certain contrails are actually chemtrails. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and a certain level of skepticism is healthy -- especially when the experts agree that there's no cause for worry. At a certain point, we all have to trust the words of others about the way the world works. We can't be masters of all fields of study, and clinging to a belief that cuts counter to the consensus of people who have dedicated their lives to the study of a field and who certainly know more than you do is nothing more than sheerest ego -- especially when you don't offer a rational reason why they're wrong and how your alternate theory improves upon theirs. So, when people who study weather and people who make plans both disavow the theory, I go with them over someone whose credentials largely come down to paranoia and obsession.

Re:"Chemtrails?" (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#26733127)

The area I grew up in was a major crossing point for airplane routes. It wasn't all that unusual to be able to see three commercial airliners in the sky at the same time at least once a day, and a sky without a contrail in it was a rare occurrence. So, I'm not at all buying the circa 1996 theory that lingering trails are the result of special chemicals -- I've seen lingering trails for nearly two decades before that, and I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve the idea that atmospheric conditions have something to do with it. Contrails are just like any other cloud once formed.

I'm not saying it's evidence for chemtrails, but this argument fails to debunk it because the argument is not that something new and special is going on, but that something special is happening more frequently. (Straw Man) I don't mind debunkings, I'm not married to the theory. I would like them not to be fallacious.

Re:"Chemtrails?" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26735343)

Or perhaps they are right!

Rain Wars? (4, Interesting)

Dripdry (1062282) | more than 5 years ago | (#26714703)

Does this mean that countries could begin to wage "weather war"? If we stop rain from falling on a country, it would be just sieging a castle.

Re:Rain Wars? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26715783)

There is a United Nations convention disallowing the use of weather modification in war. That said, the United States military is looking into it.

Re:Rain Wars? (2)

nametaken (610866) | more than 5 years ago | (#26717057)

I was thinking we could use this to turn poor, worthless, dry areas into working agrarian areas.

You know, like the middle east. It would be nice if those people could stop fighting for once and focus on producing something other than oil.

Re:Rain Wars? (1)

Dripdry (1062282) | more than 5 years ago | (#26717167)

That actually sounds like a much better idea.

I must still be stuck in "War on Terror" mode from the last 8 years.

Re:Rain Wars? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26717487)

Nah, the low-key but intense fights (and larger fights with a pretext) over river/aquifer access would continue...

Just with a new bone of contention. "You're stealing *our* water from the clouds before they cross the border!"

Re:Rain Wars? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26719895)

If properly managed by an independent third party, such a solution could work for the region. But as someone else said, rain doesn't come out of nothing. You will be taking a lot of moisture out of the air that would otherwise go to other regions.

The steampunk manga "One Piece" had a storyline about this: a respected "world government" privateer used cloud seeding to cause massive, multi-year draught on an inhabited desert island. This ultimately lead to a revolution on the island, and the privateer tried to seize power.

Re:Rain Wars? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26720869)

Nuclear Power stations at sea could boil the water under well known jet streams heading over continents...

Re:Rain Wars? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26717635)

Er, seeding doesn't make rain out of nothing. It's just water management, triggering where moisture falls, and unfortunately we don't have a balancing method to gather more moisture from seas.

Grotesquely simplifying a complex system, you've got a fixed X amount of moisture, and seeding is a way of getting it to become rain at point A before the moisture gets farther on to rain at point B.

Which means this doesn't do anything for the Middle East where water management disputes is a huge, bloody, conflict point in Israeli-Arab relations. Australia has a sparsely-populated continent to work with, so for them it's a practical tool to develop. Everywhere else you've got serious neighbour issues to deal with. It becomes a weapon just like dams do.

Phew! Thank christ! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26714799)

I thought I may have to go a whole day without seeing a story about Australia on Slashdot.

I hate it when it's kdawson's day off!

Luckily for us timothy stepped into the breach.

So, what's the next BIG STORY: Australian Man Figures Out How To Use Light Switch?

Clouds ? must be IT related... (1)

lbalbalba (526209) | more than 5 years ago | (#26716243)

Just to show how mind-warped IT people are, I immediately assumed that this that to do something with the IT 'cloud', rather than actual physical clouds... Go figure..

Bernard Vonnegut figured this out in 1946 (2, Interesting)

mschuyler (197441) | more than 5 years ago | (#26717137)

Kurt Vonnegut's older brother, Bernard Vonnegut, 1914-1997 was a meteorologist who figured this out while working for General Electric. Why is this news now?

Re:Bernard Vonnegut figured this out in 1946 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26719307)

Because the "story" is Australia related. Haven't you noticed that Slashdot is rapidly becoming a cheerleader for that country?

Re:Bernard Vonnegut figured this out in 1946 (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 5 years ago | (#26719795)

Kurt Vonnegut's older brother, Bernard Vonnegut, 1914-1997 was a meteorologist who figured this out while working for General Electric. Why is this news now?

Cloud seeding has been practiced for many years, but quantifying its success has been difficult. This study claims to have done that. That is the news.

If you needed a hint that Cloud seeding itself wasn't the news, perhaps the fact that the summary is discussing a 45 year trial could have clued you in.

A little late.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26717491)

Please..
Look up in the sky once in a while..

http://tinyurl.com/aerosolcrimes

What do you think they are spraying?

Come on hippies wake up!

Is the sky supposed to be white?

Peak oil is a lie.
http://tinyurl.com/peakoilisalie

Global warming is a scam.
http://tinyurl.com/globalwarmingisascam

http://tinyurl.com/9l6os

CSIRO (1)

bug1 (96678) | more than 5 years ago | (#26718381)

Apparently in the early seventies the CSIRO (Australian Government funded research organisation) was directed to abandoned its research and development of computers in favour of cloud seeding.

Cloud seeding was said by the government of the day to be the next big thing, unlike these big computer thinga-me-bobs which had only limited application.

I dont think any Australia government has ever had a grasp on technology.

Re:CSIRO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26720367)

They still managed to score this patent:

CSIRO Wireless Patent Reaffirmed In US Court
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/15/2022248 [slashdot.org]

Lack of scientific method? (1)

aviators99 (895782) | more than 5 years ago | (#26719353)

>For the cloud seeding technique, the researchers select clouds using specialist weather radar technology
> that allows them to see all the tiny processes that take place within them.

Where's the control? How do they know that they are not (unintentionally, of course) *selecting* clouds that
would have produced rain anyway?

The fact that they are testing over decades actually works against reaching the conclusion they've reached.

Re:Lack of scientific method? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26730297)

maybe you should read the paper

Snow (1)

Crossmire (1393021) | more than 5 years ago | (#26720619)

I read a bit about this when I was skiing at Perisher Blue last a year and a half ago. The part that interested me most was the possibility to increase snowfall, which is great because our skiing resorts in Australia don't get a huge amount of snow.

Did this remind anyone of That Cloud Game? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26720717)

Quite an amusing game if you haven't tried it

Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_(game) [wikipedia.org]
Download site: http://intihuatani.usc.edu/cloud/ [usc.edu]

Basically you fly around and you make clouds. And if your clouds collide with evil clouds, then they produce rain.

Re:Did this remind anyone of That Cloud Game? (1)

ace123 (758107) | more than 5 years ago | (#26720735)

Quite an amusing game if you haven't tried it

Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_(game) [wikipedia.org]
Download site: http://intihuatani.usc.edu/cloud/ [usc.edu]

Basically you fly around and you make clouds. And if your clouds collide with evil clouds, then they produce rain.

Oops, forgot to refresh the page after logging in

In other news... (1)

Noirling (1468781) | more than 5 years ago | (#26721681)

FM Radio found to be great way to advertise, Cigarette smoke found to be bad for your health, and President Nixon Impeached!

Re:In other news... (1)

Bastard of Subhumani (827601) | more than 5 years ago | (#26724101)

Dude, don't piss on my hat and tell me it's raining.
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