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German Bundeswehr Recruiting Hackers

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the blinkenlights-brauch'-das-fingerpoken dept.

The Military 156

bad_alloc writes "Heise.de tells us about the German Bundeswehr's idea of recruiting hackers in order to 'penetrate, manipulate and damage hostile networks.' (Note: The following passage has been translated from German into English: 'The Regiment is stationed in Rheinbach, near Bonn, and consists of several dozen graduates from Bundeswehr universities. They're training at the moment, but the 'hackers in uniforms' are supposed to be operational by next year. This regiment officially belongs to the "Kommando Strategische Aufklärung" (strategic reconnaissance) and is commanded by Brigadier General Friedrich Wilhelm Kriesel. The Bundeswehr has not said anything to this regiment yet.' You can find the full article in German."

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156 comments

That's great and all, but... (-1, Troll)

42forty-two42 (532340) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780095)

... it would be nice if you could post a link to a full article in English, what with this being an english site and all. No, babelfish doesn't count.

Re:That's great and all, but... (5, Funny)

andy1307 (656570) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780117)

what with this being an english site and all.

This being slashdot and all, nobody would actually read the article anyway.

Re:That's great and all, but... (0, Troll)

42forty-two42 (532340) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780183)

That doesn't mean we need to encourage them.

Re:That's great and all, but... (4, Insightful)

tpgp (48001) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780289)

... it would be nice if you could post a link to a full article in English, what with this being an english site and all. No, babelfish doesn't count.

Yes, we should ignore all foreign articles until they've been officially translated, even tho' translation tools are adequate to give you the gist of an article

I mean - it's not like there's any Germans who read Slashdot & will translate in the comments or anything is it?

Re:That's great and all, but... (5, Funny)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780437)

Jaja, aber Kartoffelbrei, ich bin mit der Fernsehturm verheiraten. I can fix it for you! Super hero acht klar!

Dieses hax0rs wollen siene gelÃck zu hax0r nicht-unsere aber others netwÃrk getesten. Jemand wollen SS uniformen zugaben before entlich der communist volk probieren sind!

Or well, maybe I leave it to the native germans after all.

Re:That's great and all, but... (5, Informative)

Niedi (1335165) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781299)

I'll give it a shot. The page this article is from (heise.de) is probably the closest to a german ./ there is. The original article that is referred to in this text was published in the Spiegel (Translation: mirror), a well-known german magazine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Spiegel [wikipedia.org]

The Bundeswehr is said to set up a "Cyberwar unit", which won't only protect the (army's or Germany's, not explicitly stated) own IT-infrastructure but is also supposed to carry out reconnaissance or manipulation "in opposing networks".
According to information of the Spiegel, the troup is made out of a few dozen computer science alumni of the Bundeswehr's universities.
According to the Hamburg-based news magazine the "hackers in uniform" are still in training at the moment but should be fully ready next year.
The top secret (har har) unit is supposedly under the command of the "Kommando Strategische AufklÃrung" (like they said in the ./ article) and is led by the Brigade General (whatever rank that is)Friedrich Wilhelm Kriesel. There haven't been any comments from the Bundeswehr regarding this report. According to the Basic Constitutional Law the German army is not allowed to carry out any functions/missions in the inland (meant is that they may not carry out police or secret service work, etc.... within germany) but there have been plans to abolish that restriction for quite some time.
While experts are still debating wether a term like Cyberwar is correct since there are neither killings nor injuries in such a war, there seems to be an agreement that the defense against such threats should be one of the duties of a nation's army. And even if the Cyberattack on Estland wasn't termed a "War" afterwards it's true that every state that runs a substantial IT-infrastructure is taking potential threats of cyberattacks seriously.

Americans mangling up random german words never fail to amuse me ;)

Re:That's great and all, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26781409)

mod parent up, puhleeze! This is a prizeworthy contribution - I'm sure Chaplin, never mind the Pythons, would approve - and so rare on /. these days.

Re:That's great and all, but... (0, Flamebait)

42forty-two42 (532340) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780493)

If it's a major, huge, timely event, sure, fine. If it's some minor story about, okay, bundeswehr (who are they? why do I care?) recruiting hackers (because no other company/military/whatever the hell they are does that, clearly), then either translate it before submitting or wait for some English news source to pick it up.

Re:That's great and all, but... (4, Informative)

Faylone (880739) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780847)

bundeswehr (who are they? why do I care?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr [wikipedia.org] In short, the German army/navy/air force/etc.

Re:That's great and all, but... (1)

42forty-two42 (532340) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780891)

Great, now why wasn't any of this information in the story? :)

Re:That's great and all, but... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780989)

1) Because it's common knowledge 2) If you didn't know, I've been told that idiots commonly use www.google.com to bolster their grasp of simple facts

Re:That's great and all, but... (3, Insightful)

Petrushka (815171) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780839)

... it would be nice if you could post a link to a full article in English, what with this being an english site and all. No, babelfish doesn't count.

Yes, we should ignore all foreign articles until they've been officially translated, ...

And it's not as if this is specifically an English-language site anyway, is it? I mean, look at the URL -- ".org". Not ".us", ".uk", ".au" or anything nation- or language- specific. The URL clearly indicates that it's supposed to be a pan-national site.

(Yes, I know what the FAQ says. The URL sends a stronger and more direct message than the FAQ, however.)

Re:That's great and all, but... (2, Insightful)

Tellarin (444097) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781265)

And .us would also not mean English-language as the the US has no official language.
And Hawaiian is an official language in the state of Hawaii.

Re:That's great and all, but... (1)

Jens Egon (947467) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781309)

(Yes, I know what the FAQ says. The URL sends a stronger and more direct message than the FAQ, however.)

It's not as if 'US-centric' necessarily means English only. Other languages are spoken there.

Manually translated (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780855)

The Bundeswehr is reportedly assembling a "Cyberwar-Unit", which additionally to protecting the armed forces' IT infrastructure from attacks, is also supposed to scout and manipulate other computers or "adversarial networks". According to information available to the news magazine "Der Spiegel" [spiegel.de] the troupe consists of several dozen alumni of the universities of the Bundeswehr in computer-sciences and are stationed in Rheinbach near Bonn.

The "Hackers-in-Uniform", as the Hamburg-based news magazine ["Der Spiegel"] called them, are currently in training and the troupe will be reportedly fully operational the next year. The strictly classified unit is subordinate to the Kommando Strategische Aufklaerung [bundeswehr.de] (Strategical Reconnaissance Command) under command of brigadier Friedrich Wilhelm Kriesel [streitkraeftebasis.de]

The Bundeswehr has issued no statement to the report. According to the Grundgesetz [German constitution], the German self-defence forces are prohibited from assuming interior tasks. There are, however, plans [heise.de] to abolish this ban.

While experts are arguing world-wide, whether the term cyber-war is actually correct, as there are no casualties, there seem to be a consensus, that the defence of such threats is one of the task of the armed forces of a country.
Regardless, whether in retrospect the cyber-attack [heise.de] on Estland is counted as a war, or not, every nation, which has a substantial IT-infrastructure, is taking the potential threat of cyber-attacks [heise.de] seriously.

All links are leading to German pages. No guarantees on the accuracy of the translation, especially the military terms.

Re:Manually translated (1)

QuantumPete (1247776) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781803)

Replace "troupe" with "unit" or "troop", though given the number of graduates the unit would more likely be company strength. Also, I'd replace "subordinate to" with "attached to" or "part of". And it's Brigadier General ;) QuantumPete

Re:That's great and all, but... (3, Funny)

Fred_A (10934) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781687)

Yes, we should ignore all foreign articles until they've been officially translated, even tho' translation tools are adequate to give you the gist of an article

Quite. After all this being the Internet, it's not like it interconnects any networks all over the planet, or if /. had been around for any amount of time and had drawn English speaking people from all kinds of places.

So let's stick to articles from the US or (very occasionally) Air Strip 1. After all all other people must hate freedom as shown by their willingness of living outside of the US (and speaking funny languages with weird characters that aren't even proper ASCII).

I mean - it's not like there's any Germans who read Slashdot & will translate in the comments or anything is it?

Now that's just crazy talk.

Re:That's great and all, but... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780517)

Perhaps you could post a link to an English version of the article instead of just complaining that somebody else didn't?

No?

Perhaps you should just keep your whining to yourself then.

P.S. If you don't like Babelfish, vielleicht sollst du Deutsch lernen.

Re:That's great and all, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26781367)

Vieleicht solltest Du auch erst einmal deutsch lernen ...

Why does /. abound with pretentious twerps?

Re:That's great and all, but... (3, Funny)

mcvos (645701) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781733)

Vieleicht solltest Du auch erst einmal deutsch lernen ...

Are we going to get faulty spelling flames in German now?

Re:That's great and all, but... (1)

SchwarzeReiter (894411) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780961)

... it would be nice if you could post a link to a full article in English, what with this being an english site and all. No, babelfish doesn't count.

Can't read the German one? Bad luck, Bro.

Sorry, but... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780097)

Linux just isn't ready for the desktop yet. It may be ready for the web servers that you nerds use to distribute your TRON fanzines and personal Dungeons and Dragons web-sights across the information superhighway, but the average computer user isn't going to spend months learning how to use a CLI and then hours compiling packages so that they can get a workable graphic interface to check their mail with, especially not when they already have a Windows machine that does its job perfectly well and is backed by a major corporation, as opposed to Linux which is only supported by a few unemployed nerds living in their mother's basement somewhere. The last thing I want is a level 5 dwarf (haha) providing me my OS.

Re:Sorry, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780851)

yeah you really want a gnome. Gnomes get the engineering racial.

Just asking. (4, Funny)

Shadow Wrought (586631) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780113)

So why does a beer company need Hacker Kommandos? Is it because they're Beglium now?

Re:Just asking. (2, Insightful)

Neoprofin (871029) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780387)

So I'm not the only one who read that as Budweiser!

Re:Just asking. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780613)

yo --pickup=the_phone echo "Wazzaap?!!!";

I wouldn't buy a parser from you (5, Funny)

Dr. Hok (702268) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781223)

So I'm not the only one who read that as Budweiser!

Incidentally Hacker [wikipedia.org] is a brewery.

Is this really news? (3, Interesting)

blool (798681) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780119)

I would think most modern nations employ hackers these days. I'm sure much of America's hacking talent make a tidy salary working for the NSA.

Re:Is this really news? (5, Funny)

arogier (1250960) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780163)

But NSA hackers don't get spiffy uniforms. If a cyberspace world war breaks out Das Keyboard might become a documentary as opposed to just... a keyboard.

Re:Is this really news? (4, Informative)

Nathrael (1251426) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780195)

NSA hackers don't, but USAF hackers do. The Air Force has it's own "Cyber Command". There even has been an article on /. about that some time ago iirc.

Re:Is this really news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780241)

NSA hackers

NSA Hackers sure do. There aren't many civilian NSA hackers. They're mostly army.

Re:Is this really news? (1)

arogier (1250960) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780269)

I was under the impression the funding for the Airforce cyber command hackers was on the rocks for the time being...

Re:Is this really news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780871)

Perhaps so, but NATO has a center of cyber defence in Estonia. I would be surprised if it had no hackers in uniforms.

Re:Is this really news? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780485)

Do these guys get black leather trenchcoats with Death's Head insignias and jackboots? If so, sign me the fuck up.

Re:Is this really news? (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780975)

Since they are hackers, they probably get T-shirts with some text on it, like "All your base are belong to us!"

Re:Is this really news? (1)

laejoh (648921) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781347)

LOL! Beautiful! I bow(*) to you, sir!

The bow of Das Boat of course! ;)

Re:Is this really news? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780913)

"There are plenty of nuclear powers already, so I don't understand why it is news Iran may be trying to build nuclear weapons." :P

In English (3, Informative)

toppromulan (1362421) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780129)

very informative! (4, Funny)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780435)

"And even if the cyber attack on Estonia in retrospect, not as a "war" browsed meanwhile shall any State which is a substantial electronic IT infrastructure operates, potential threats posed by cyber attacks seriously."

Re:very informative! (1)

raffnix (1472681) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780703)

The actual source of the heise.de article seems to be an article on the website of the German magazine "Der Spiegel" which can be found here: http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/tech/0,1518,606096,00.html [spiegel.de] It seems that those guys are actually mostly graduates from Bundeswehr universities meaning the "recruiting hackers" theme is not really correct. (remarking this as a native German speaker). The rest of the article is rather uniformative though..

Re:very informative! (3, Funny)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780981)

The rest of the article is rather uniformative though..

(emphasize by me)

Well, it's about military, so uniforms shouldn't be a surprise ...

IT Work (4, Interesting)

snowgirl (978879) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780149)

The first sentence of TFA says that "not only will it do the security of IT systems but also carry out..."

Why does everyone focus immediately on the "black hat" side of the story, and neglect that the group is supposed to do BOTH sides, which in some ways, is a good aspect of ANY security team... just hopefully, your security team follows ethics.

And I imagine that the Bundeswehr is going to follow ethics as well, "no hacking friendly networks......... overtly".

Re:IT Work (1)

Dreen (1349993) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780355)

Same reason why exorcists are taboo topic regarding the church

Actually... (1)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780629)

Actually, the constitutional safeguards still work in Germany, so it will likely be more like "no hacking anyone else's networks ever, unless we've already properly declared war and the bureaucracy is done approving the paperwork." (At which point the war is probably over anyway.)

Wait what? (1)

meist3r (1061628) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780935)

The constitutional safeguards still work? How exactly would the limits on the actions of the Bundeswehr be any different from the secret "Federal trojan" and other unauthorized methods which have been employed without constitutional authorization? Safeguards are a nice concept but you need people that are actually afraid of getting caught in them.

Re:Wait what? (5, Insightful)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781093)

Exactly when has the "Bundestrojaner" been actually used without authorization? No, seriously, I'm curious now.

And how's it any worse than, say, the USA? You can find plenty of cases where the FBI planted a trojan or a keylogger on a _suspect's_ computer, which is all that the "Bundestrojaner" is supposed to do. The difference is that in Germany there has been a whole debate about it and it's been shot down on constitutional and privacy grounds repeatedly, while in the USA nobody even bothered wondering much about it.

Let me repeat: the "Bundestrojaner" is supposed to only be used with a court mandate, only for a limited time, and only on the computers of people suspected of terror activities and the like. Plus a court is supposed to establish (as per the german supreme court decision) that the use does not pose any danger to a person's other rights, among which their freedom. It'll be interesting to see if they can use it at all then, but at any rate you can't use it, say, to intimidate your opponents.

But seriously, how's that any worse than what the rest of the world already does? It seems to me like the USA just shipped such suspects to Gitmo for some waterboarding. I'll take a court-approved keylogger instead if I'm ever suspected of anything, thank you very much.

And then you have cases like the NSA spying on its citizens without any court approval or legal mandate.

Basically if you think that a law which sets clear limits is actually worse than no law, well, you're naive.

Re:Wait what? (1)

meist3r (1061628) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781317)

So just because the press hasn't reported on it and the authorities deny it's existence no government agency has ever used illegal wiretaps or spy software to gather information. And you call me naive?

The Bundeswehr Tornado Bomber is usually only used with a mandate as well and yet these things flew recon missions during the G8 summit. So what? Let's just agree that this kind of publicly funded technology isn't always used according to it's dedicated purpose.

It's not any worse than in other countries but you claimed that "at least the safeguards are still in place" not really a soothing fact that we actually need to employ these safeguards to keep our politicians from abusing this power. Then again that is waht politics is.

It doesn't have to be worse "not any better" isn't too re-assuring either. Germany tolerated and supported the illegal detention of suspected terrorists. Aren't you aware of that? At least the name Kurnaz should mean something to you. Our foreign affairs minister Steinmeier still denies that he ever knew of that, yet, when a German citizen is captured and taken hostage in some mountainous tourist region he's the first on TV to talk about their negotiations. Do you actually believe that the US doesn't tell us about stuff like that? Why else do you think they keep calling us an "important partner".

You're trying to justify illegal means of intelligence gathering by giving me illegal rendition as a comparison? Sorry but you're out of your mind. Both are unacceptable in a free and democratic society. According to your definition all the real bad guys we catch with these illegal measures make up for all the innocent "Beifang" that we reel in. Since we strive to maintain both a democracy and freedom there is no way I can agree with you on this. This is the hard thing about freedom. You have to grant these rights to anybody even those that you suspect of being criminals, at least until you can definitely prove that they are guilty. It's called a Rechtsstaat.

Basically if you think a law keeps people from doing certain things you are way more naive then I am. What happens when such a law governing intelligence gathering or treatment of suspects is broken? Who ever made the government take responsibility? When the Bundesverfassungsgericht stops some legal act they don't stop the agencies from doing their word. They simply refuse to give permission. The innocent victims are usually released and awarded a symbolic reparation by a court. That doesn't repair the harm done (lost jobs/spouses/friends), that doesn't keep the feds from breaking the law again, it doesn't take away the nagging doubt, insecurity and paranoia these people have to live through. What will Andrej Holm get for his troubles? What will the government learn from their erroneous behavior? In both cases the answer is "not very much". Simply because our country hasn't deteriorated into the mess that many other governments have become after 9/11 doesn't mean we're better. Apparently the people here simply take greater care in actually securing the freedoms that the US for example fought so hard to give us.

Re:Wait what? (1)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781373)

So basically you're proposing that the civil servants in Germany are so much better than those in the USA, that they can actually keep something like that a secret if it actually happened?

At any rate, you're asking me to believe... what? That something happened although you have absolutely no evidence, nor even wild claims of it?

Re:Wait what? (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781723)

German Beamtenschaft is actually a technocratic class of its own. They are not just employees of the government.

The funny thing in the US is that people really do hate administration and still they have fat administration, their federalism is a mess, etc.

"So basically you're proposing that the civil servants in Germany are so much better than those in the USA, that they can actually keep something like that a secret if it actually happened?"

Yes, but they possibly wouldn't do it in the first place.

Re:Wait what? (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781693)

I didn't hear Andrej Holm complain except that his wife made a agitprop case of it.

Re:Wait what? (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781679)

The "Federal Trojan" is a political troll.

What the whole debate revealed was that the inner security agencies were apparently unable so far to hack computers to get information.

Re:IT Work (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780651)

``just hopefully, your security team follows ethics''

Which, of course, isn't unique to security teams.

Re:IT Work (1)

meist3r (1061628) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780945)

Why does everyone focus immediately on the "black hat" side of the story, and neglect that the group is supposed to do BOTH sides, which in some ways, is a good aspect of ANY security team... just hopefully, your security team follows ethics.

Because in general, the military is not exactly known for it's humanitarian altruistic approach. Most military define security by going into the enemies home and screwing them there.

Re:IT Work (2, Funny)

Jens Egon (947467) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781243)

Why does everyone focus immediately on the "black hat" side of the story, and neglect that the group is supposed to do BOTH sides, which in some ways, is a good aspect of ANY security team... just hopefully, your security team follows ethics.

Because in general, the military is not exactly known for it's humanitarian altruistic approach. Most military define security by going into the enemies home and screwing them there.

Which is why the majority of soldiers in the "Democratic" Republic of Congo has AIDS.

I hope our German friends have better security than that.

Re:IT Work (2, Insightful)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781007)

Because there are other white hat units. Having a unit made in order to carry out black hat operations is News For Nerds, Stuff That Matters.

Re:IT Work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26781191)

just hopefully, your security team follows ethics.

Haha, that's a good one!

The German Bundeswehr (0, Troll)

NineNine (235196) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780171)

Ahh, the German Bundeswehr. Of course! I was wondering what those guys were up to.

Who or what is the German Bundeswehr and why should I care?

Timmy, great article, by the way. 99% of your readers have no idea what it's about.

Re:The German Bundeswehr (2, Funny)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780211)

German Armed Forces. It's a reasonably well known term even in the English speaking world not to mention that it only takes a second to google it and it can be inferred fairly easily from the summary as well. Now, linking to an article in German without any kind of English translation, that is pretty dumb

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1)

ImYourVirus (1443523) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780381)

Wrong. But right on google, but were lazy here. ;) And yeah no translation = why the fuck did you post it.

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1)

nutshell42 (557890) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781823)

Now, linking to an article in German without any kind of English translation, that is pretty dumb

Why? Who here's gonna notice?

Re:The German Bundeswehr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780215)

http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=bundeswehr [letmegoogl...foryou.com]

oh, the German Armed Forces

idiot

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1)

sqrt(2) (786011) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780219)

It's the German army. I don't think it's that difficult to figure it out from context for English readers, but I speak German so I'm probably not the best person to make that judgment.

Re:The German Bundeswehr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780689)

I don't believe you're rational.

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1)

ImYourVirus (1443523) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780285)

Right.

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1)

LiENUS (207736) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780291)

Timmy, great article, by the way. 99% of your readers have no idea what it's about.

Only 1% of Slashdot readers know how to use Google translate?

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1)

ImYourVirus (1443523) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780405)

Dude translate is a bit dodgy at best, does the phrase 'do not want' ring a bell? Anyhow... lol

Re:The German Bundeswehr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780301)

Who or what is the German Bundeswehr and why should I care?

Why don't you just shut up and listen?

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780319)

It's the German Army.

Now I'll yield the floor for Godwin.

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1)

nephridium (928664) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780453)

It's the German Army.

Now I'll yield the floor for Godwin.

Grandparent was as ignorant as a Nazi.. ;)

Jokes aside though, one of the things the Germans learned from WWII was not to have an army only consisting of professional soldiers, who live in their own bubble and are shielded from contact with the 'normal' people (e.g. simply by just living in army bases). That way it is much easier to control them and give them orders normal people would not follow so blindly.

The current Bundeswehr consists of people being drafted from the normal population.

Re:The German Bundeswehr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780527)

thats not really true
the bundeswehr consists mainly of hired people just like the american army, the difference is that every male german over 18 has to spent 9 months serving the bundeswehr to get some basic training.

Re:The German Bundeswehr (2, Informative)

nephridium (928664) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780619)

Ok I wasn't clear. From Wikipedia: "The Bundeswehr has 200,500 professional soldiers, 55,000 18-25 year-old conscripts who serve for at least nine months under current rules [4], and 2,500 active reservists at any given time." So 20% of the soldiers are still obtained from the "normal" population (and some of them will stay to become professional soldiers).

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1)

silanea (1241518) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781083)

The current Bundeswehr consists of people being drafted from the normal population.

(Emphasis mine)

I would certainly contest that. The Draftees, for the most part, are a nice enough crowd, but God help us should we ever have to engage in a full-scale military operation against a traditional armed force. The median IQ on the "executional" level is not exactly stunning, to say the least.

The Bundeswehr has quite a history of misplacing vehicles and weapons on their own exercise areas, and I had the questionable pleasure of experiencing first-hand how prone to getting lost even with maps and GPS a lot of the lower rank officers are. Horrifying, really. Our OpenStreetmap volunteers and geo cachers can muster better strategic movement than our citizens in uniform.

There certainly are very fine men and women in our armed services, and I mean no disrespect to them. But the Bundeswehr as a whole is an embarrassment. Part of that is due to underfunding, part is due to infighting amongst branches, part is simply due to stupidity, and the rest gets whacked by politics: No-one wants our soldiers to go anywhere because of Germany's past image, so they get bad gear and budget cuts, but when an opportunity arises to look good internationally (so-called peace-keeping etc.) our politicians are all too eager to ship them out by the thousands in no time. Our army is too small and underpowered to defend us, but too immobile and too badly managed to attack anyone.

Re:The German Bundeswehr (2, Interesting)

brezel (890656) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780549)

being proud of you own ignorance sure makes you look like a hero!

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1)

SchwarzeReiter (894411) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781039)

Ahh, the German Bundeswehr. Of course! I was wondering what those guys were up to.

Who or what is the German Bundeswehr and why should I care?

Jeez, guys, nobody ever saw a WWII movie?

Timmy, great article, by the way. 99% of your readers have no idea what it's about.

It's not the fault of the poster, that you are all illiterate, and do exchange czech beer manufacturers (Budweiser) with one your few remaining allies, who's ass is still on line in your f**ked up war in Afganisthan. (Bundeswehr)

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26781583)

Jeez, guys, nobody ever saw a WWII movie?

You haven't, apparently. Otherwise you'd know that it was the Wehrmacht back then, the Bundeswehr came to existence only a decade after the war.

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1, Flamebait)

rastos1 (601318) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781241)

Who or what is the German Bundeswehr and why should I care?

Because everyone knows what is US navy or USAF ... You should care because US has just managed to pull whole world into financial crisis, so we would appreciate if you look a bit further then inside of your borders.

Re:The German Bundeswehr (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781729)

Reichswehr
Wehrmacht
Bundeswehr / Nationale Volksarmee
Bundeswehr

Armed Forces. Means literally "Federal Defense"

Hackers as the government (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780181)

Why not have the hackers be the government? :)
http://www.metagovernment.org/wiki/Main_Page [metagovernment.org]

Sweet... (3, Funny)

uvajed_ekil (914487) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780347)

The Bundeswehr is recruiting hackers? I'm sure Bayern Munich will get the top recruits as they often do, though I'll keep rooting for FC Kaiserslautern (FCK). Football and hacking finally meet, and I'm in heaven.

Re:Sweet... (2)

Steemers (1031312) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780571)

The Bundeswehr is german military.
Did all you beer and football confused people not pay attention in school, or was the second world war only lightly touched upon?

Re:Sweet... (1)

cj1127 (1077329) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780793)

-1, sense of humour failure

Re:Sweet... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780909)

Except during WWII the German armed forces were known as the Wehrmacht, not Bundeswehr.

Meh, typical reporting. . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780445)

I'm not impressed with their attention to details. For example, the Estonia situation they refer to as "a cyberwar that did not turn into a real war" was never even a cyberwar. This should be old news by now.

But, if they had done proper fact checking they would know that it was caused by a 15 year old Estonian kid on his own who was angry the government of Estonia moved a communist era statue to a secluded spot. It is sort of scary that there are reporters who still believe it was a Russian cyberwar.

That would be like people believing Columbine was a large-scale neo-nazi uprising, when in reality it was just a couple of disturbed/deluded 15 year olds with a chip on their shoulder, a copy of Mein Kampf, and too many hours playing Doom in god mode.

Re:Meh, typical reporting. . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780731)

neo-nazi uprising, when in reality it was just a couple of disturbed/deluded 15 year olds with a chip on their shoulder, a copy of Mein Kampf

That sounds just like all the neo-nazis before their first few years in prison.

German Bundeswehr Recruiting Hackers (3, Funny)

agrippa_cash (590103) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780451)

RE:German Bundeswehr Recruiting Hackers If it tastes anything like American Bundeswehr, they'll have a hard time keeping them.

Re:German Bundeswehr Recruiting Hackers (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780887)

If it tastes anything like American Bundeswehr, they'll have a hard time keeping them.

No, this is Germany. They're more likely to drink Budweiser Budvar [wikipedia.org] :)

Oh god (1)

whong09 (1307849) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780531)

It's like Project Icarus all over again.

Finally... my chance to escape the MAFIAA! (1)

macraig (621737) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780649)

Where do I sign up? Can we keep it quiet?

Good times for security professionals (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780671)

Not that it will be really difficult keeping these pople out, but many networks have not been attacked because of lack of an attacker. One more group that fills the role and increases the need for working defenses. Incidentially, bad times for Microsoft as well and generally for systems without competent administrators. But then, a competent administrator was allways and likely will allways be a requirement for professional computing. C

Important issue missing in TFA (1)

should_be_linear (779431) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780723)

If I sign, will they give me that cool german helmet?

The Essence of Military is Privateering... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780791)

This just goes further to show that anything and everything normally considered a criminal activity can be chartered from the state as either "military" or "intelligence" and then glorified.

However, military networks could be fortified against hacking, rendering this kind of formations almost completely useless (at least against military infrastructure): just design them utterly paranoid inside, like e.g. TOR, and establish procedures and safeguards against social engineering, by dehumanizing personal interaction over networks: forbid voice communication, limit and supervise use of free form text, especially emoticons, forbid all improvisations, shortcuts and workarounds on tactical levels IT (reroute any such thing to "special circumstances" staff, who would be required to have elevated level of healthy paranoia).

Re:The Essence of Military is Privateering... (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781067)

forbid all improvisations, shortcuts and workarounds on tactical levels IT (reroute any such thing to "special circumstances" staff, who would be required to have elevated level of healthy paranoia)

You are in a war. There's that enemy airplane approaching you. You know that your armation will not survive the attack, so your only chance to survive is to shoot that plane. However, your weapons are defunct due to some computer problem. There's currently no "special circumstances" staff there. However there's someone there with the necessary knowledge to fix it, and he'd have a chance to fix it before the enemy plane arrives. But there's this damn directive that you are not allowed to improvise or workaround on tactical levels IT, and the IT department put every possible measure into the software to enforce this policy ...

The last thing you'd want in a war is to forbid improvisation.

Heil? What's wrong with this taggers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780823)

What's wrong with you guys? Looking at tags for many articles I am starting to think that this tagging system really doesn't work.

Beer company wants hackers? (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 5 years ago | (#26780861)

German Bundeswehr's idea of recruiting hackers in order to 'penetrate, manipulate and damage

You get the 'penetrate, manipulate and damage' with Budweiser or any beer, but why hackers only? Carnage for all I say!

FIRST?! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26780937)

English version of article. (3, Informative)

Dj (224) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781235)

http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/Report-claims-German-armed-forces-setting-up-cyberwar-unit--/112595

Look at the bottom of the article... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26781485)

What about http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/Report-claims-German-armed-forces-setting-up-cyberwar-unit--/112595 ?

Translation (by native speaker) (1)

molecular (311632) | more than 5 years ago | (#26781579)

The "Bundeswehr" (german military arm) is currently in the process of building a "cyberwar unit", which does not only protect it's own infrastructure from attacks, but also conducts reconnaissance and manipulation operations on foreign computers, respectively in foreign networks. According to information from "der Spiegel" (a german weekly newspaper), the unit consists of a couple of dozen computer science degree holders barracked in Rheinbach close to Bonn. Currently the "hackers in uniform" are still training, bound to be operational not before next year.

Organisatorily the top secret unit is part of "strategic reconnaissance" and is lead by brigade general Friedrich Wilhelm Kriesel. No comment on the report was to be had from the Bundeswehr as yet. According to the constitution, the "german defense army" is not allowed to conduct tasks within the country, although there have been plans to remove this prohibition for some time.

While experts are debating worldwide wether such a term as "cyberwar" is correct or not, because in such a war there are no dead or wounded, there seems to be agreement that defending such threats is the duty of the armed forces of a country. Even if the cyberattack on estonia cannot be said to have been a war in retrospect, every nation that runs any substantial electronic IT-infrastructure takes potential threats by cyperattacks seriously. (pem/telepolis)

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