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BeOS Successor Haiku Keeps the Faith

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the still-want-a-be-box-led-meter dept.

Be 448

kokito writes "OSNews managing editor Thom Holwerda reviews Haiku, the open source successor of the Be operating system. According to the review, Haiku faithfully/successfully replicates the BeOS user experience and 'personality,' boasting very short boot times, the same recognizable but modernized GUI using antialiasing for fonts and all vector graphics as well as vector icons, a file system with support for metadata-based queries (OpenBFS) and support for the BeAPI, considered by some the cleanest programming API ever. The project has also recently released a native GCC 4.3.3 tool chain, clearing the way for bringing up-to-date ports of multi-platform apps such as Firefox and VLC, and making it easier to work on Haiku ports in general." (More below.)"In spite of its pre-alpha status, Haiku seems to be pretty stable. If you would like to give it a try, nightly builds are available from the Haiku Files website, both as raw HDD and VMWare images. Or if you happen to be in the Los Angeles area, you could also take a peek at a Haiku demo during the upcoming Southern California Linux Expo (Feb. 21 & 22), where Haiku will be exhibiting in booth #4."

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448 comments

Haikus always do! (-1, Offtopic)

nixish (1390127) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819705)

Haikus always do! First!

Re:Haikus always do! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26820269)

MobileMe Terms of Service
1. Your Acceptance of Terms
Welcome to MobileMe

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Removal of Content

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Copyright Notice - DMCA

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Violations of TOS

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Free Trial Period

Apple may offer you a one-time free trial period during which you can try out the Service for free (âoeFree Trial Periodâ). If you are participating in a Free Trial Period, you must cancel the Service by the end of the trial period to avoid incurring any charges. If you do not cancel the Service before the Free Trial Period expires, and we have informed you that the Service will automatically be converted into a paid subscription at the end of the Free Trial Period, then you authorize us to charge your credit card the applicable fees as indicated at the time you signed up for the Service. During the Free Trial Period, you agree that Apple will have the right (subject to applicable local law) to send you communications, notices and news about the Service to your MobileMe email address and to any alternate email address you may have provided. Local law may allow you to revoke your consent to receiving these communications at any time during the Free Trial Period. Upgrades to a Member Account (e.g. Family Pack or storage upgrade) are only available upon purchase of an annual subscription and are therefore not available to subscribers during the Free Trial Period. Apple reserves the right to modify, cancel and/or limit this Free Trial Period offer at any time.You may cancel your account at any time during the Free Trial Period by going to the Account Options section at https://secure.me.com/account [me.com] . Upon cancelling your account, you will lose all access to the Service and any data or information stored within your account. (See "Effects of Terminationâ below for additional details.)
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PLEASE NOTE: Boxed versions of the Service that are purchased through Apple Retail Stores, the Apple Online Store, or third party resellers must be activated within nine (9) months of the date of purchase and are not subject to the foregoing refund terms. Boxed versions of the Service must be returned to the original place of purchase and must follow the returns and refunds policies of those stores. Please review the applicable Apple Sales Policy at http://www.apple.com/legal/sales_policies/ [apple.com] .
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Apple may at any time, upon notice required by applicable law, change the price of the Service or any part thereof, or institute new charges or fees. Price changes and institution of new charges implemented during your subscription term will apply to subsequent subscription terms and to all new subscribers after the effective date of the change. If you do not agree to any such price changes, then you must cancel your account and and stop using the Service. Your continued use of the Service after the effective date of any such change shall constitute your acceptance of such change.
7. Content Submitted or Made Available by You on the Service
License from You

Except for material we may license to you, Apple does not claim ownership of the materials and/or Content you submit or make available on the Service. However, by submitting or posting such Content on areas of the Service that are accessible by the public, you grant Apple a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Service solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available. Said license will terminate within a commercially reasonable time after you or Apple remove such Content from the public area. By submitting or posting such Content on areas of the Service that are accessible by the public, you are representing that you are the owner of such material and/or have authorization to distribute it.
Changes to Content

You understand that in order to provide the Service and make your Content available thereon, Apple may transmit your Content across various public networks, in various media, and modify or change your Content to comply with technical requirements of connecting networks or devices. You agree that the license herein permits Apple to take any such actions.
8. Trademark Information

Apple, the Apple logo, MobileMe, the MobileMe logo and other Apple trademarks, service marks, graphics, and logos used in connection with the Service are trademarks or registered trademarks of Apple Inc. in the US and/or other countries. Other trademarks, service marks, graphics, and logos used in connection with the Service may be the trademarks of their respective owners. You are granted no right or license in any of the aforesaid trademarks, and further agree that you shall not remove, obscure, or alter any proprietary notices (including trademark and copyright notices) that may be affixed to or contained within the Service.
9. Software Appleâ(TM)s Proprietary Rights

You acknowledge and agree that Apple and/or its licensors own all legal right, title and interest in and to the Service, and any software provided to you as a part of and/or in connection with the Service (the âoeSoftwareâ), including any and all intellectual property rights that exist therein, whether registered or not, and wherever in the world they may exist. You further agree that the Service (including the Software, or any other part thereof) contains proprietary and confidential information that is protected by applicable intellectual property and other laws.

License From Apple Apple grants you a personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited license to use the Software as provided to you by Apple as a part of the Service and in accordance with these TOS; provided that you do not (and do not permit anyone else to) copy, modify, create a derivative work of, reverse engineer, decompile, or otherwise attempt to discover the source code (unless expressly permitted or required by law), sell, lease, sublicense, assign, grant a security interest in or otherwise transfer any right in the Software.
Export

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10. Termination
Termination by You

You may terminate your account and/or stop using the Service at any time. To terminate your account contact MobileMe Support at http://www.apple.com/support/mobileme/ww [apple.com] . Any fees paid by you prior to your termination are nonrefundable (except as expressly permitted otherwise by these TOS), including any fees paid in advance for the term during which you terminate. Termination of your account shall not relieve you of any obligation to pay any accrued fees or charges.
Termination by Apple

Apple may at any time, under certain circumstances and without prior notice, immediately terminate or suspend all or a portion of your account and/or access to the Service. Cause for such termination shall include, but not be limited to: (a) violations of the TOS or any other policies or guidelines that are referenced herein and/or posted on the Service; (b) a request by you to cancel or terminate your account; (c) discontinuance or material modification to the Service or any part thereof; (d) a request and/or order from law enforcement, a judicial body, or other government agency; (e) where provision of the Service to you is or may become unlawful; (f) unexpected technical or security issues or problems; (g) your participation in fraudulent or illegal activities; or (h) failure to pay any fees owed by you in relation to the Service. Any such termination or suspension shall be made by Apple in its sole discretion, without any refund to you of any prepaid fees or amounts, and Apple will not be responsible to you or any third party for any damages that may result or arise out of such termination or suspension of your account and/or access to the Service.

Effects of Termination Upon termination of your account you lose all access to the Service and any portions thereof, including, but not limited to, your Member Account (any Sub-accounts thereunder), Subscriber ID, email account, iDisk, domains, iChat account and MobileMe Gallery albums. In addition, Apple shall delete all information and data stored in or as a part of your account(s) including, but not limited to, data files, email, albums and preferences. Any individual components of the Service that you may have used subject to separate software license agreements (e.g. Backup software) will also be terminated in accordance with those license agreements.
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12. Disclaimer of Warranties

SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN WARRANTIES, AS SUCH, TO THE EXTENT SUCH EXCLUSIONS ARE SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED BY APPLICABLE LAW, SOME OF THE EXCLUSIONS SET FORTH BELOW MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT YOUR USE OF THE SERVICE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK AND THE SERVICE IS PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS. APPLE AND ITS AFFILIATES, SUBSIDIARIES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, PARTNERS AND LICENSORS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. IN PARTICULAR, APPLE AND ITS AFFILIATES, SUBSIDIARIES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, PARTNERS AND LICENSORS MAKE NO WARRANTY THAT (I) THE SERVICE WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS; (II) YOUR USE OF THE SERVICE WILL BE TIMELY, UNINTERRUPTED, SECURE OR ERROR-FREE; (III) ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED BY YOU AS A RESULT OF THE SERVICE WILL BE ACCURATE OR RELIABLE; AND (IV) ANY DEFECTS OR ERRORS IN THE SOFTWARE PROVIDED TO YOU AS PART OF THE SERVICE WILL BE CORRECTED.

ANY MATERIAL DOWNLOADED OR OTHERWISE OBTAINED THROUGH THE USE OF THE SERVICE IS ACCESSED AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION AND RISK, AND YOU WILL BE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE TO YOUR DEVICE OR LOSS OF DATA THAT RESULTS FROM THE DOWNLOAD OF ANY SUCH MATERIAL.

NO ADVICE OR INFORMATION, WHETHER ORAL OR WRITTEN, OBTAINED BY YOU FROM APPLE OR THROUGH OR FROM THE SERVICE SHALL CREATE ANY WARRANTY NOT EXPRESSLY STATED IN THE TOS.
13. Limitation of Liability

SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, AS SUCH, TO THE EXTENT SUCH EXCLUSIONS OR LIMITATIONS ARE SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED BY APPLICABLE LAW, SOME OF THE EXCLUSIONS OR LIMITATIONS SET FORTH BELOW MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT APPLE AND ITS AFFILIATES, SUBSIDIARIES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, PARTNERS AND LICENSORS SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES , INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA, COST OF PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES, OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF APPLE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (I) THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE SERVICE; (II) THE UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (III) THE DELETION OF, CORRUPTION OF, OR FAILURE TO STORE AND/OR SEND OR RECEIVE YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA ON OR THROUGH THE SERVICE; (IV) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE SERVICE; AND (IV) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE SERVICE.
14. Indemnity

You agree to defend, indemnify and hold Apple, its affiliates, subsidiaries, directors, officers, employees, agents, partners and licensors harmless from any claim or demand, including reasonable attorneysâ(TM) fees, made by a third party, relating to or arising from: (a) any Content you submit, post, transmit, or otherwise make available through the Service; (b) your use of the Service; (c) any violation by you of these TOS; or (d) your violation of any rights of another. This obligation shall survive the termination or expiration of these TOS and/or your use of the Service. You acknowledge that you are responsible for all use of the Service using your account, including any use by Sub-accounts, and that these TOS apply to any and all usage of your account, including any use by Sub-accounts. You agree to comply with these TOS and to defend, indemnify and hold harmless Apple from and against any and all claims and demands arising from usage of your account or any Sub-account, whether or not such usage is expressly authorized by you.
15. Notices

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How have the APIs changed? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26819725)

Can you still develop apps for Haiku with old BeOS references like O'Reilly's Programming the Be Operating System [amazon.com] ?

Re:How have the APIs changed? (1)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820007)

I'm interested to know if Haiku will run under Parallels system virtualization, which itself runs under OSX. Be great for s/w development, as that's what's on my desk.

I'm curious, too, if it is able to run in a full non-virtual memory, non-swapping configuration for speed and reliability. That'd make it a very interesting OS to me for running on actual hardware of its own. There's nothing like watching linux turn into a total turtle after running for too long and building up lots of cache and swap to sour you on the whole process. For instance, if I let my web servers run for, oh, say, a few weeks, then try to start the Gimp... there's going to be a lot of waiting. But boot the machine fresh, start the webserver, even with a very heavy web load, and Gimp snaps right up there.

I will be *very* happy indeed when and if linux matures to the point where we can control how each app is treated for VM/swap, and file caching. None for this one, some for that one, etc. :o)

Summary (5, Funny)

CaptainPatent (1087643) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819783)

Haiku boots quickly
similar to BeOS
now with GCC!

I'm holding my breath for.. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26820067)

There once was an OS named Limerick
Whose kernel included a VIM-err-tick
It boot-strapped itself
and began exec-ing ELF
code that would kill the stack--errrr----ick*#%U!@!#%^%----NO CARRIER

BeOS Haiku (-1, Troll)

mamono (706685) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819791)

Another OS From which we have to choose from Why do we need this? Seriously, why hasn't BeOS (and OS/2 for that matter) just disappeared. As if the numerous Linux and BSD distros didn't make the market confusing enough. I'm constantly reminded of the scene in Caesar's Palace in Monty Python The Life of Brian. You know, where Brian tries to separate the People's Front of Judea and the Campaign to Free Galilee. When he says they need to unite against the common enemy they all shout "The Judean People's Front!" Then Brian has to say "No, no...the Romans!" That is what these OS wars are about. We need to unite against Microsoft, the dominant power. We already have several OS alternatives out there, Mac, Linux, BSD. Why throw another in the mix which will never be supported mainstream?

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

Truekaiser (724672) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819847)

Some people are just fanatical fans of certain operating systems.

The artist of one of the on-line comics i read is a devoted amegia fan.

Re:BeOS Haiku (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26819875)

No, having different OSs isn't about beating Microsoft.

Have some imagination, please.

Re:BeOS Haiku (4, Funny)

exley (221867) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820299)

No, having different OSs isn't about beating Microsoft.

You wouldn't know that from reading Slashdot, though.

Re:BeOS Haiku (5, Interesting)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819879)

BeOS is easily the most pleasant-to-use operating system I've ever seen. It could also multi-task while flawlessly playing back an MP3 on a 166Mhz Pentium with 32MB ram while showing minimal UI slowdown, which was impressive even back then; compared to the performance of operating systems now it's down-right miraculous.

In my perfect world it would have at least 75% of the desktop market and I'd rarely have to work on anything else. It's just a dream, but it's a good one.

I say keep it alive.

Re:BeOS Haiku (2, Insightful)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819987)

BeOS is easily the most pleasant-to-use operating system I've ever seen.

I actually went to Haiku's site and poked around a little bit. Aside from the very 90's looking screen shots of a couple of apps - mail, contacts, media prefs., what is actually available to run under Haiku?

The apps are what make an OS usable, really. The OS itself should just get out of the way and let the (hopefully) plethora of apps do their job.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820063)

More importantly, they have no convenient method for average Joe Tinkerer to give it a try and help generate buzz.

The least they could do is make available an install .ISO!

Re:BeOS Haiku (2, Informative)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820113)

A lot of open-source apps used to run on BeOS. No idea if they still do. Firefox was ported, as was (IIRC) OpenOffice. I'm pretty sure it's posix-compatible (more or less, at least) and it had a GTK port, so loads of other stuff had been ported over by enthusiasts. You could run most of the same end-user apps as in Linux or BSD, plus many of the server apps (Apache had a port, I think). Also, it had a few exclusive programs--I had a 3-disc RPG for mine, only ever released on BeOS. Never finished it, but I'm more in to RPGs now than I was then and as I recall it was pretty good, so trying it out again is on my long-term list of "stuff to do".

No idea what the state of it is now. The last time I actually used it was, oh, 2001 or 2002, and it's been a few years since I even looked at any of the user community sites.

Re:BeOS Haiku (4, Interesting)

jandrese (485) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820107)

Yes yes, the Be folks loved to play 5 mp3s at the same time just to show off, but when you got down to the brass tacks the system was just different enough (especially with the networking API) to make porting applications a PITA. It took forever to get a web browser (and this was in 1997!) that wasn't a total waste of bits and driver support was considerably worse than Linux or even FreeBSD back then.

I even remember the BeBoxes, with their twin row of LEDs up the front of the case that would should you the load of each (PowerPC) processor. I guess my big problem is that it always felt like a big impressive tech demo instead of an OS. I had a roommate with it and he was always strugging to get non-trivial applications running on the thing.

In some ways BeOS was ahead of its time, particularly with all of the multithreading and filesystem, but in other ways it was just too late to the game (Linux ate its lunch and dinner and was already wooing the girlfriend).

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820311)

Yes yes, the Be folks loved to play 5 mp3s at the same time just to show off

Shit, I was just happy to be able to play one MP3 while simultaneously browsing a single website or (not and) using IM without it skipping constantly. Win98 and Linux couldn't do that on the same hardware. QNX could, but it was even more of a pain-in-the-ass than BeOS. Hell, Win98 and Linux on that weak hardware couldn't even be relied upon to just play an MP3 while doing nothing else, which is why I used BeOS on my little business-surplus IBM Pentium I, which was my MP3 jukebox for a while (not to mention my web-browsing box when I managed to break my main desktop while screwing around on it, which was often).

I even remember the BeBoxes, with their twin row of LEDs up the front of the case that would should you the load of each (PowerPC) processor. I guess my big problem is that it always felt like a big impressive tech demo instead of an OS. I had a roommate with it and he was always strugging to get non-trivial applications running on the thing.

I got in to BeOS pretty late in the game--it became nearly-impossible to find a new copy just a month or two after I bought mine--and I've never even seen a BeBox in person, so I can't really say much about that. I mean, the company did fail, and I wouldn't be surprised if what you're talking about was part of the reason. I just know that BeOS x86 running on normal PC hardware kicked the living shit out of its contemporaries, and at the time I got in to it it had about as many decent desktop-user applications as Linux did (so, not many, but it wasn't lagging so far behind back then).

Failed business plan or no, they'd made a hell of an OS.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

cymen (8178) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820355)

Does it even have a web browser now that can load off the network and not the disk? Seeing references to things like, "got web browsing working loading off disk but libcurl is still being ported" is a bit off putting. Networking is essential.

I tried Haiku a couple days ago as a VM. Interesting but I couldn't figure out web browsing in 20-30 minutes of googling so maybe next year.

I agree! (2, Funny)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820229)

BeOS is easily the most pleasant-to-use operating system I've ever seen.

I agree - it is very pleasant to be able to use an operating system without having to worry about things like software!

Re:BeOS Haiku (0)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820275)

> It could also multi-task while flawlessly playing back an MP3 on a 166Mhz Pentium with 32MB

This is not exactly a high bar.

I did the same thing with Linux on a 100Mhz 486 with 32M RAM. Not only
was I playing back the mp3's but I was ripping them and converting them
at the same time. Netscape and Star Office were still perfectly usable
on top of that and my music didn't miss a beat.

There are BeOS demos far more impressive then what the two of us are talking about.

Re:BeOS Haiku (5, Insightful)

turgid (580780) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819897)

What's the point of fighting one monoculture with another?

Microsoft's junk wouldn't be so bad if it didn't completely dominate the world. If it had some competition, it might make an effort to interoperate, making everyone's life easier.

Diversity stimulates research, growth, health and progress. Can we please put this "Linux/The Open Source Community needs to unite to beat Microsoft" meme to sleep. It's totally false and unhelpful.

Re:BeOS Haiku (5, Interesting)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820127)

"I once preached peaceful coexistence with Windows. You may laugh at my expense - I deserve it."
-- Jean-Louis Gassée, CEO Be, Inc.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

Ostracus (1354233) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820139)

Are you certain? I could have sworn the OSS vs MS was one of those big boss battles where one tries to knock Ballmer's health bar down to zero while avoiding flying chairs.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

Who Is The Drizzle (1470385) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820345)

It seems to me that the vast majority of the people propagating this concept that we should all be waging war against Microsoft aren't the ones actually doing any coding. From what I can tell most of the Linux kernel devs and pretty much any of the devs from the BSDs couldn't give a shit less what Microsoft is doing.

Re:BeOS Haiku (0, Troll)

defaria (741527) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820297)

MS doesn't have a monopoly. You are free to use another OS. Many of us do. MS has competition already. MS does make efforts to interoperate. If you don't see that then you are just refusing to see clearly.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26819925)

Not every OS developer has "defeat microsoft" as a goal.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820333)

Unless you are just making toys for yourself, you will have to
worry about the Microsoft bully coming around sooner or later.

Every OS developer has "being defeated by Microsoft" as a key problem.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

Pantero Blanco (792776) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819947)

Another OS From which we have to choose from Why do we need this? Seriously, why hasn't BeOS (and OS/2 for that matter) just disappeared. As if the numerous Linux and BSD distros didn't make the market confusing enough. I'm constantly reminded of the scene in Caesar's Palace in Monty Python The Life of Brian. You know, where Brian tries to separate the People's Front of Judea and the Campaign to Free Galilee. When he says they need to unite against the common enemy they all shout "The Judean People's Front!" Then Brian has to say "No, no...the Romans!" That is what these OS wars are about. We need to unite against Microsoft, the dominant power. We already have several OS alternatives out there, Mac, Linux, BSD. Why throw another in the mix which will never be supported mainstream?

I'm pretty sure this is for hobbyists who remember BeOS, or geeks who are just curious. If you're talking about markets, competition, and "uniting against Microsoft", you've missed the point.

Also, people doing things for fun occasionally discover new techniques or ideas, so why not? I doubt anyone's putting aside a career to work on this, so what's lost?

Re:BeOS Haiku (2, Insightful)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819963)

It's Haiku, not BeOS. And I wasn't aware there was a limit to the number of operating systems allowed to exist. Is there a limit for any kind of software, or just operating systems?

You know, where Brian tries to separate the People's Front of Judea and the Campaign to Free Galilee.

Except there they had a common cause. In the market, we have this thing known as competition.

We already have several OS alternatives out there, Mac, Linux, BSD. Why throw another in the mix which will never be supported mainstream?

Well, why bother with Mac, Linux or BSD then? Surely, it would be better if everyone just used Windows, right?

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

Svippy (876087) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819979)

Because our enemy is not Microsoft. Not that we should ignore them. But to define ourselves as "not Microsoft", that is a terrible idea.

Outside the world of Windows, a lot more choice exist. Something that is noticeable to those who do not wish Windows or believe there are better choices. Confusing as it may, it still better than only having one alternative. And besides, if we make as few alternatives as possible, we are no better than Microsoft.

When I say "we", I obviously do not include myself, I am a total slacker.

Licensing (1, Interesting)

tknd (979052) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819989)

The GPL was made specifically for fighting against big proprietary vendors that abuse selling proprietary software/hardware in order to increase profits. If that's your mission, then GNU Linux is your friend.

But after a while, you simply don't care anymore. You just want the damn video card to work as advertised and display all the eye candy it possibly can. You want to use an ipod because it is actually a decent device, or you actually feel that paying individually for songs (drm or not) is actually a justified price. If that's the case, things like Haiku (MIT license) or BSD licensed OSes begin to make much more sense than the GPL and its associated "holy war."

Re:Licensing (4, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820389)

Your rant is nice and fine and all but it was Linux not BeOS that had the first 3D video drivers.

iPod is not the only game in town. If you choose to act that way, then your actions have unintended consequences.

This is why we are speaking of BeOS as resurrected abandonware.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

halber_mensch (851834) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820041)

I'm constantly reminded of the scene in Caesar's Palace in Monty Python The Life of Brian. You know, where Brian tries to separate the People's Front of Judea and the Campaign to Free Galilee.

And the Judean Popular People's Front. Splitters.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

onefriedrice (1171917) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820057)

Who says we need it? Your questions shouldn't need to be asked in the first place.
  • We don't need another OS any more than we need Linux or Mac OS X. Presumably we could all get by with only one general solution (i.e. Windows). That would be a boring world, eh?
  • The question you should have asked is not "why?" but "why not?" You may not feel like another OS is worthwhile, but as long as there are enthusiasts willing to work on a project they like (regardless of whether it becomes "mainstream" or not, I say good for them.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

Initi (1031362) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820069)

You, sir, are qualified for any number of management jobs...good luck! Dilbert's ghost.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

Rhone (220519) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820093)

Sure, of course we don't need BeOS. Just like Minix users didn't need Linux.

Seriously, I'm guessing none of the Haiku developers are looking at it as "going to war against Microsoft". I don't know any of the developers, but I'm going to take a wild guess and say they probably look at it as a fun project to work on in their spare time, and probably find something about BeOS to be philosophically or pragmatically preferable to other alternatives (like Linux).

Re:BeOS Haiku (5, Insightful)

Who Is The Drizzle (1470385) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820109)

We need to unite against Microsoft, the dominant power.

No, we don't have to do any such thing. Why is it that just because someone develops an alternate OS that it has to be used as a tool to fight against Microsoft? Not everyone who doesn't use Windows is doing so because they are trying to fight against Microsoft. This always comes up whenever someone mentions the many distros of Linux that everyone should unite cause we are supposed to be waging some "epic" battle against Microsoft, but many of us just don't give a shit about your stupid "war". Take your stupid battles somewhere else and leave the rest of us out of it so we can get on with coding.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1, Informative)

Abreu (173023) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820147)

Because, contrary to the "People's Front of Judea" and the "Campaign to Free Galilee", Free Operating Systems are not "out to get" anybody... Not Microsoft, not each other.

Re:BeOS Haiku (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26820179)

"We already have several OS alternatives out there..."

I'll 2nd what everyone else has said. You're clueless and confused.

Re:BeOS Haiku (5, Informative)

Sj0 (472011) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820205)

Because they want to?

Not everyone is out to kill the Romans. Some people just want to keep using their favourite OS. Personally, I'm excited about the day Haiku "gets there" and I can run a small, fast, powerful OS again.

Re:BeOS Haiku (5, Funny)

Schemat1c (464768) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820207)

Another OS From which we have to choose from Why do we need this? Seriously, why hasn't BeOS (and OS/2 for that matter) just disappeared. As if the numerous Linux and BSD distros didn't make the market confusing enough.

And what's with all these dozens of menu items when I go into a restaurant? I only need a few types of food to survive, all these choices just confuse me.

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

renegadesx (977007) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820211)

Since when did you have to be mainstream? This is not about a war or anything! This is more of a case of the People's Front of Judea and the Campaign to Free Galilee just leaving eachother alone and doing their own thing

Re:BeOS Haiku (2, Insightful)

Maestro485 (1166937) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820285)

We need to unite against Microsoft, the dominant power.

I don't really get that kind of thinking. First of all, it's just an operating system, not a war. I dislike Microsoft's business practices as much as the next person, but I'm not going to "unite" against a software company. I use Linux (Slackware, to be specific), but I use it because I like it, not because I want to "fight" Microsoft. I like tinkering and free software allows me to do just that. Even my (Microsoft) Xbox is running XBMC and I couldn't be happier with it.

I'm a little disappointed that this Haiku doesn't have an .iso available yet, or else I'd be giving it a spin right now. If it works and people like to use it, what does it really matter to you?

Re:BeOS Haiku (1)

Nicolay77 (258497) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820323)

I can only say 'oh damn, another OS', when another Linux distro appears.

In this case, I read the summary and immediatly thought: Mini Tablet EEE PC!!!

It of course needs writing recognition, but if it runs faster than both Windows7 and Linux, with less resources (KDE seems to be a hog these days, nevermind the Vista^w Windows7 GUI), then it is THE KILLER OS for netbooks.

It just scream: energy efficient!

And that's good enough for me.

Re:BeOS Haiku (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26820339)

Much as you or I may have opinions about what should and should not be receiving the time and effort of volunteers, to tell people what they can and can't work on in their own time is actually quite rude.

Nice, but: What the hell runs on BeOS/Haiku? (-1, Troll)

Ralph Spoilsport (673134) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819819)

I don't see anything worth the effort or expense of putting together a BeOS/Haiku box.

Re:Nice, but: What the hell runs on BeOS/Haiku? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26819881)

I don't see anything worth the effort or expense of putting together a BeOS/Haiku box.

Agreed. Here's a topical webcomic: (substitute 'tribes n' for 'beos')

Dead horse [penny-arcade.com]

Re:Nice, but: What the hell runs on BeOS/Haiku? (1)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819883)

Since it has a native GCC toolchain, just about anything you'd care to recompile will run on it. Firefox runs on it, for example, as the story summary states.

Re:Nice, but: What the hell runs on BeOS/Haiku? (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819991)

Since it has a native GCC toolchain, just about anything you'd care to recompile will run on it. Firefox runs on it, for example, as the story summary states.

The summary doesn't state that, though, it states that the recent addition of a GCC toolchain "clears the way" for a port of Firefox. Having the GCC toolchain is a start, but not the whole shebang.

Re:Nice, but: What the hell runs on BeOS/Haiku? (1)

Neon Spiral Injector (21234) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820077)

The larger zip VMware image has Firefox 2.0 included. The summary means that the the way is clear for an up-to-date Firefox.

Re:Nice, but: What the hell runs on BeOS/Haiku? (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820135)

In fact this was a major sticking point of the old BeOS. The API was missing a lot of features that apps expect (like BSD style sockets) that make porting a real pain. The old BeOS had gcc too, but getting a non-trivial app to compile and run was no mean feat. Granted, back then Linux had the same problem (these were the days before ./configure), but Be had a much worse case of it.

responsiveness (1)

renoX (11677) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820017)

BeOS had a very strong point not reproduced currently: responsiveness.

And it was (much) more responsive on a Celeron 333 with 128Mo than Linux or Windows are now on ten times more powerful hardware!!!
As a nice bonus point, BeOS also booted quickly (14s from Lilo to a usable GUI)..

The main drawback of BeOS the lack of software..

Your point? (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820019)

Myself, I don't see anything worth the effort and expense of putting together an OS X box. But I don't feel the need to post about it to every OS X article. And if I did, just see how quickly I'd be modded down.

BeOS: still my favorite UI (5, Interesting)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819827)

The interface for BeOS is still superior to any other OS I've used. It's like they took the good stuff from the old Mac OS 9 and Amiga and updated it. It was a power user's OS, yet still very user friendly. My college had a BeBox and I loved playing on that thing (the best part was that the CPU monitor allowed you to turn off both CPUs, instantly locking the computer).

I hope Haiku does well, but it seems like an also-ran in these days of Mac OS X and GNOME. I'm not sure there's a compelling reason to run it anymore, except for nostalgic purposes (sigh).

Re:BeOS: still my favorite UI (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819951)

If Haiku has anywhere near the performance that BeOS did, I'll be using it for pretty much any "appliance"-type application I have. Homemade set-top boxes and the like.

That OS put all of its contemporaries to shame with its smooth multitasking and media playing, and it did it on hardware that would cry, have a nervous breakdown, and melt into a pile of goo from merely being in the same room as the installation disc for a modern graphical OS.

Re:BeOS: still my favorite UI (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820059)

I loved it too - out of all the various alternative PC OSs I installed over the years, BeOS was the only one that installed with ease (even coping with complete changes of hardware without batting an eyelid), and was enjoyable to use. Certainly superior to Linux at the time (which back then, you were still reliant on the command line, and Red Hat wouldn't support my graphics card in anything higher than 320x200!), but sadly killed off by MS.

I also thought it was interesting the way that the BeBoxes were multiprocessor as standard. Just think, if the platform was better supported and still around, it seems reasonable that applications would have been more likely to support multiprocessing, and be in a much better position to take advantage of multicore processors. Compared with what's happened for all other platforms - few applications bothered to support it, and now most computers run with 50% sat idle.

Re:BeOS: still my favorite UI (2, Funny)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820283)

the best part was that the CPU monitor allowed you to turn off both CPUs, instantly locking the computer

I'm not sure what to say about an OS that boasts this as its best feature :)

Re:BeOS: still my favorite UI (5, Insightful)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820295)

I have actually used BeOS a lot, mostly for composing. I have experienced the highest level of responsiveness from an OS with BeOS - this is still unsurpassed. When I talk about responsiveness, I specifically mean it from the point of view of the user. Applications that play some kind of media (be it MIDI, audio or video of any kind) will never, under any circumstance, be interrupted by any other process. If you copy a file while playing a video, it will not skip. The file may not copy as fast at times, or other processes may slow down, but the video will not skip. In addition to this, the user commands, be it with the mouse or with the keyboard, are always taken into consideration. No "hourglass" or other bullshit. I don't know how BeOS was engineered to achieve this, I only know that no other OS I used during and since then, achieved this sort of responsiveness.

  I've used Linux a lot, and am definitely a fan of some distros, and I also like OS X quite a bit, but neither are 100% "committed" to my whim. With BeOS, what I want is listened to and executed, and fuck everything else. I guess this means BeOS would be a terrible server OS - but very often I miss exactly this kind of behaviour.

If Haiku manages to achieve the same characteristics, it will be for me, the best desktop operating system in the world. I specifically look for support of modern CPUs, chipsets, graphics cards and soundcards. Perhaps not all of them, or even not most of them, but the ones that will be supported will appear in my house.

Loved it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26819829)

I loved the BeOS. It was almost my first introduction to a non-MS operating system. My first was Slackware 3.6. But my first love was BeOS 4.5 (Intel). At the time, it was absolutely brilliant, although there was a dearth of software. It now looks quite dated, but still smart and sharp. I hope Haiku makes it to the stage where it has something to offer in the modern world. Yes, I am very much in favour of eye candy.

Slashdotted (3, Funny)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819835)

I hope they aren't using Haiku to run their web site. If so, it may be pretty but it isn't good at handling a load.

Deadhorse? (5, Insightful)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819905)

For a site supposedly traditionally supportive of alternative platforms, in practice there's a surprising amount of contempt for any alternative platform that doesn't fall into the cool club of Linux and OS X. I'm not a Haiku user, but if someone is writing an open source OS, good luck to them. Or maybe we should give up, and ridicule anyone who doesn't use Windows?

(I see this with other things - e.g., Internet Explorer is bad, Firefox is good ... but Opera for some reason is also bad. The usual argument of it not being open source doesn't even apply to Haiku, though. By that reasoning, we should be praising Haiku, and criticising OS X!)

Is anyone who starts an open source project flogging a "deadhorse", unless they're already mainstream? What a depressing attitude.

"Deadhorse" doesn't make sense anyway - according to Wikipedia, Haiku is a relatively new OS, only having received significant development in the last few years. Oh, it's a dead horse because it maintains some compatibility with BeOS? Big deal - by that reasoning, we should tag every OS X article "deadhorse", on the grounds that it shares its trademark name with a long dead twenty five year old OS that was never even particularly good at the time.

Re:Deadhorse? (1)

onefriedrice (1171917) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820141)

Agree completely. I'm sick of people here asking why we need BSD/BeOS/whatever... after all, we have Linux right? I would hope people reading this site would have more of a clue.

Re:Deadhorse? (2, Insightful)

jandrese (485) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820213)

It's not so much contempt as it is inertia. We spent the better part of a decade getting all of these various applications working on Linux, and nobody wants to go back to square 1 with a different OS. Well, some people do, but it's still a monumental effort to get up to where Linux is today. It's not like Windows either where you get a lot of really tangible benefits (real command line, your OS is your development environment, etc...). Most of the BeOS advantages are things like "uses multiple CPUs better, has a fancy database filesystem, etc..." Stuff that's nice, but not completely different from what's already available.

Re:Deadhorse? (1)

Rhone (220519) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820327)

but Opera for some reason is also bad. The usual argument of it not being open source doesn't even apply to Haiku, though.

Why would you say "for some reason" when you admit, in the very next sentence, that you know precisely what the reason is (in regards to Opera)?

I otherwise agree with your post. Kind of sad to see users of an OS that started as a young hacker's hobby ridiculing others for... working on an OS as a hobby.

Had to be done (5, Funny)

PunditGuy (1073446) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819923)

Ancient OS lives
pretty icons made of lines
what will run on it?

Re:Had to be done (4, Funny)

oodaloop (1229816) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819977)

What the hell is this?
Don't know what BeOS is.
I'll move along now.

Article ignores NeXTstep's place (4, Insightful)

WillAdams (45638) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819935)

and why it was chosen instead of BeOS.

Moreover, Mac OS X runs nicely on multi-processor machines (Be's major claim to fame).

I'd rather see effort like this poured into GNUstep....

William

Re:Article ignores NeXTstep's place (2, Insightful)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820097)

The answer is pretty simple--Jobs came along with NeXT. Gasse wasn't nearly as enticing (plus apparently he wanted too much).

Re:Article ignores NeXTstep's place (1, Insightful)

fm6 (162816) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820133)

I'd rather see effort like this poured into GNUstep....

The only reason to work on either BeOS or GNUstep is enthusiasm for the technology. If you think either one has any chance of ever being more than an enthusiast's toy, you're deluded.

ReligiOS (5, Funny)

DECS (891519) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819965)

They should merge the soul of BeOS in with AmigaOS and maybe the Palm OS to release ReligiOS, keeper of of the faith.

They could sell it to those gullible televangelist audiences as JesOS, market it to fundamentalist Jews as the Messiah OS, and to fervent Muslims as MuhammaDOS.

Imagine all the faithful putting aside their wars and terrorism and instead taking their angst to alt.systems.advocacy.religios to flame each other in a more figurative sense. I'm sure all the gods in heaven would approve.

-
Microsoft plays catch up to MobileMe with My Phone [roughlydrafted.com]

Re:ReligiOS (4, Funny)

CaptainPatent (1087643) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820253)

They could sell it to those gullible televangelist audiences as JesOS

Eh... sounds like this is just the first release
I'll wait until the second coming.

Probably the dissenting opinion but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26819981)

It looks like windows 3.1 and probably has higher system requirements.

Well...not exactly... (1)

djupedal (584558) | more than 5 years ago | (#26819997)

> According to the review, Haiku faithfully/successfully replicates the BeOS user experience...

When Haiku takes me back to Redwood city in 1996, back before Greg Stein was hired and put out to pasture by MS...then I'll buy the reviewer's claims :)

Antialiasing fonts? Vector icons? Holy cow, Batman (2, Insightful)

dingen (958134) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820023)

modernized GUI using antialiasing for fonts and all vector graphics as well as vector icons

It's great that BeOS is still alive in some form, as it is obviously a great project. But really, don't boast with this sort of stuff anymore. It's 2009. Antialiasing fonts and vector icons might have been impressive in 1996, but now every actively maintained GUI features this.

Re:Antialiasing fonts? Vector icons? Holy cow, Bat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26820347)

Which are what... Windows, OS X, and Linux?

When guests arrive. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26820031)

"...and support for the BeAPI, considered by some the cleanest programming API ever. The project has also recently released a native GCC 4.3.3 tool chain, clearing the way for bringing up-to-date ports of multi-platform apps such as Firefox and VLC, and making it easier to work on Haiku ports in general."

We'll see just how long that API stays clean.

for those who don't know BeOS (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26820033)

For those of you who aren't familiar with BeOS or Haiku, Be was pretty much second in line to become OS X (behind NeXT). If Jobs weren't part of the NeXT package, it probably would've been Be. And many still feel that it would've been a better choice. Since there are VMware images available, it's worth downloading and checking out.

hardware drivers (1)

poached (1123673) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820045)

I looked into a bunch of BeOS clone projects a while back to try and get started on them. My conclusion was that it was painful for casual developers/newbies to get involved because it was too hard to have it running on real hardware. Even then there are a lot of drivers missing. TFA states that there are some problems with booting and how it is a hit or miss experience, but I wonder about drivers for video (3d), sound, ethernet, modem, etc, etc. But since the GCC toolchain is available I suppose drivers will come. But given how long it took Linux to get to where it is today, and still behind Windows in terms of driver suppose, I wonder how long it will take Haiku?

Re:hardware drivers (2, Informative)

Baba Ram Dass (1033456) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820349)

Haiku has drivers for both nVidia and ATI, though they're nowhere near where they should be... but they do work quite well. 3D support is provided by Mesa. I don't think 3D hardware is supported ATM.

Ethernet support is pretty damn good. I've yet to test a machine whose NIC isn't supported by Haiku. Its netstack is very very good for its alpha state, quite fast and stable.

Last time I tried, sound was pretty flaky. BUT that was before they integrated Open Sound System and all that jazz. I hear support is quite good.

But don't take my word for it; go try it out yourself.

Doesn't impress me (1, Insightful)

diegocgteleline.es (653730) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820073)

As much hype as people wants to put in beos, the fact is that beos is...

-Incomplete, beos always missed important pieces (a reason why its so fast and slim: theres not much to load)

-Some parts have become old. For example, as great as the graphic subsystem was at its time, these days its old compared to the modern 3d-accelerated desktops. Even X.org is better than beos in this field these days.

-Some of the advantages are useless. Why do I care about installing a driver by dragging and dropping files? The desktop systems that really care about users do not need to do anything to get the hardware working, they automate the process as much as possible and do not require doing anything. Installing a driver in Windows is most of the times automatic, and there are rare exceptions where you have to insert a CD when you are asked to do it.

Any modern Linux distro is so much better than beos....

How secure is BeOS? (3, Interesting)

amRadioHed (463061) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820115)

From what I remember BeOS wasn't designed as a multi-user system. What sort of security protections does it have?

Re:How secure is BeOS? (2, Informative)

Baba Ram Dass (1033456) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820373)

Like BeOS, Haiku is a single-user system. That said, multi-user support was kept in mind from day one. R2 will supposedly be a true multi-user system.

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26820149)

BeOS was great. AmigaOS was great. OS/2 was great. Unfortunately they all missed the boat. To bring any of them back now seems pointless. We're only recently to the point where MacOS is actually viable for everyone, and Linux is finally getting ready for the desktop - maybe. It took ages for main stream application and game writers to pick up on Mac, it'll still be ages before it happens with Linux; can you imagine how much longer it will take for BeOS or AmigaOS?

An interesting video from October 2008 (2, Informative)

NiteMair (309303) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820173)

In the OSNews article, there was a link to a youtube showing Haiku running on an older P4 box - it doesn't demonstrate many of the unique features of Haiku, but it does show some of the multitasking capabilities while juggling various running videos, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSMT8cM20m0

Hardware? (1)

amcdiarmid (856796) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820203)

The last time I looked at Haiku/BeOS it required a PPC computer, long after they were generally available. (I'm not sure Mac's even used them any more.) Looking at the website (http://www.haikuware.com) it looks like they are shooting for i586+ hardware, and the supported stuff is a bit .. older.

Perhaps I could try it, but I'll need a better hardware database before I take the time. There are 0 systems that are well rated (of 5), and few motherboards. Let me know when more hardware works: If it does not mostly work with stuff in my junk drawer - I'm not buying a new system to test it. Even if it was the bees knees fifteen years ago.

However,
Good work guys!

Re:Hardware? (1)

Baba Ram Dass (1033456) | more than 5 years ago | (#26820395)

The last version of BeOS (R5) ran on 585 hardware. Haiku's main architecture is also 585. You must be thinking of BeOS R4 or older.

Give it a try, just keep in mind it is pre-alpha.

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