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Researchers Warn of Possible BitTorrent Meltdown

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the domino-effect dept.

The Internet 294

secmartin writes "Researchers at Delft University warn that large parts of the BitTorrent network might collapse if The Pirate Bay is forced to shut down. A large part of the available torrents use The Pirate Bay as tracker, and other available trackers will probably be overloaded if all traffic is shifted there. TPB is currently using eight servers for their trackers. According to the researchers, even trackerless torrents using the DHT protocol will face problems: 'One bug in a DHT sorting routine ensures that it can only "stumble upon success", meaning torrent downloads will not start in seconds or minutes if Pirate Bay goes down in flames.'"

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Is it me. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843333)

Or is Slashdot seemingly trying to make their UI more unusable every day!

Re:Is it me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843371)

No, I agree. It's getting weirder and weirder and some things I used to know how to do I can't figure out.

Re:Is it me. (0)

VShael (62735) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843439)

No, it's not just you.

Re:Is it me. (1, Informative)

PhilHibbs (4537) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843467)

My front page just switched over to only displaying headlines and hour ago, I have to click through to each article now to get the summary!

Re:Is it me. (3, Informative)

Bashae (1250564) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843913)

Go to Preferences > Index and disable Beta Index (should be the first checkbox). I've had mine disabled for a long time and I never see any significant changes to the UI I know and love.

Idle is still green though :P

Re:Is it me. (1, Insightful)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844179)

Thank you! /. is now usable for the first time in months!

So What? (0)

gbutler69 (910166) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843497)

And this is a problem because?

Re:So What? (2, Insightful)

aceofspades1217 (1267996) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843619)

It is extremely annoying because I can't read articles at-a-glance anymore. I only click on articles for the comments and I only read comments and write comments if I'm heavily interested in this story.

Re:So What? (3, Insightful)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843973)

Learn to use RSS already.

Re:So What? (0)

Xtense (1075847) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844163)

RSS? We don't need no steenking RSS!

Yeah yeah, get off my lawn, insensitive clod, etc. etc. etc.

Re:Is it me. (0, Offtopic)

Hatta (162192) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843541)

Yes. They need to fucking cut this shit out. Seriously.

Re:Is it me. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843981)

I'm deleting the front page link from my bookmarks. The RSS feed page makes more sense now.

Re:Is it me. (2, Insightful)

SBrach (1073190) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844321)

That'll show em.

Re:Is it me. (1)

TypoNAM (695420) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843587)

Yeah no kidding. I noticed a week ago that it now requires me to login in order to view the "Moderation Comment Log".

Re:Is it me. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843613)

I just dropped a massive deuce and I don't know which looks better -- the deutschmark staring back up at me from the bowl, or the Slashdot homepage

So... (0, Flamebait)

senway (978102) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843365)

And nothing of value was lost?

UI Design Fail. (-1, Offtopic)

hattig (47930) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843369)

What happened?

The front page is a pile of teal bricks!

I can't seem to expand the stories expect by going to the story / comments page. The "+" on the teal brick doesn't expand the story in-place.

Argh. WTF. UI Design Fail.

Re:UI Design Fail. (1)

Spazztastic (814296) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843423)

Argh. WTF. UI Design Fail.

Disable the beta index. It's beta for a reason.

Re:UI Design Fail. (0, Offtopic)

Noryungi (70322) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843641)

Disable the beta index. It's beta for a reason.

How do you do this? I tried www.slashdot.org/index.pl but it just switches me back to "index2.pl".

Re:UI Design Fail. (2, Insightful)

Xylaan (795464) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843909)

Go to your user preferences, index/general. There is a check box at the top that says 'Use Beta Index Date/Time' (which is where they mashed two lines together.

Uncheck the box, and you can return to non-beta bliss!

Re:UI Design Fail. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26844015)

That's it.
You are required to be authenticated.
So much for anonymous readers.

And this is a site where people are arguing about privacy?
Is privacy in danger when gov is in the game or when privates are also in the game.

Do I trust more /. or the gov?

And what if I don't trust them both?

Re:UI Design Fail. (1)

urbanriot (924981) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844199)

You are required to be authenticated. So much for anonymous readers.

Fantastic! Now the 4chan'ers can stay in 4chan, and maybe Slashdot will regain some of its quality user base.

Re:UI Design Fail. (1)

Spazztastic (814296) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844279)

Fantastic! Now the 4chan'ers can stay in 4chan, and maybe Slashdot will regain some of its quality user base.

You can still post anonymously by checking the "Post Anonymously" while logged in.

Re:UI Design Fail. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26844481)

I go to 4chan for the intelligent and insightful discussion but I come to Slashdot for the moronic trolling. No, really.

Re:UI Design Fail. (1)

Neil Hodges (960909) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844275)

Then use the RSS feed like any 'sane' person. All 'modern' browsers, and IE7, have integrated RSS feed readers, so you shouldn't complain.

Re:UI Design Fail. (1)

steinnes (774991) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843433)

I had the same problem, until I logged in. Anyway I think it's an epic UI fail, because since when is it a good idea to alienate new users with this kind of crap?

Re:UI Design Fail. (3, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843631)

I am logged in, I still see that firehose crap. They're not just alienating new users, I'm getting sick of this crap too. I don't even let slashdot.org run scripts anymore. It stalls firefox, and doesn't provide any desirable functionality. Once upon a time Slashdot had the best forum software around. Now, it's the worst.

Re:UI Design Fail. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843695)

All the cool tech sites are jumping the shark these days, it's the new awesome tech thing to do.

See also: ars technica.

Re:UI Design Fail. (1)

bikehorn (1371391) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844159)

That reminds me, can anyone tell me WTF the firehose is and why are we supposed to care about it?

Re:UI Design Fail. (1)

Lucid 3ntr0py (1348103) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843797)

Slashdot has a pro-windows philosophy after all! Fair and balanced coverage ftw.

Re:UI Design Fail. (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843715)

Argh. WTF. UI Design Fail.

Craniorectals at work.

Before long, the site will become so laden down with useless cruft, it will slashdot itself. Someone needs to go back to basics and look at what's actually needed. The balance was pretty good a year or two ago - I think people have got carried away.

We've had a CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale) - now I'm ready for a campaign for real HTML.

Re:UI Design Fail. (1)

Malevolyn (776946) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844187)

Before long, the site will become so laden down with useless cruft, it will slashdot itself.

Slashdot has already slashdotted itself. [slashdot.org]

The market will find a way (2, Insightful)

Bearhouse (1034238) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843373)

Might force more people to 'member-only' or subscription sites, for a short time, is all.

Meanwhile, isohunt (among others) is going strong.

Finally, could also push more people into IRC, which I'm sure the MAAFIA would just adore.

Re:The market will find a way (1)

aceofspades1217 (1267996) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843681)

Thats an index >.

The problem is that so many torrents rely on piratebay as a tracker.

Piratebay tracks a large portion of torrents and just like when the mininova index went down, all other trackers and possibly even indexes will collapse under pressure.

Re:The market will find a way (2, Insightful)

Bearhouse (1034238) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843941)

Thats an index >.

Aware of that - but check out the trackers on isohunt; plenty of options other than Piratebay. If it goes down, people will use the alternatives, simple as that.

How long did it take to recover from mininova? Not long...

Re:The market will find a way (1)

Pictish Prince (988570) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844463)

Maybe the bittorrent protocol could use some robustification.

Re:The market will find a way (1)

Shadow-isoHunt (1014539) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844337)

Indeed. isoHunt(and many other p2p search engines) cross reference via the infohash, and add the other trackers that it finds that infohash on to the torrent file. Redundancy is nice.

- Shadow

Tag this FUD (5, Insightful)

Spazztastic (814296) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843395)

The internet is resilient, and someone somewhere will pick up the slack that could be left by TPB going down. There's enough trackers out there to lend a hand.

Solution? Support The Pirate Bay. Don't download? Support them anyway for the things they do to battle the MAFIAA and other evils.

Re:Tag this FUD (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843523)

Who cares about torrents anyways ... Real men use USENET ...

Re:Tag this FUD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843555)

the first rule.... :)

Re:Tag this FUD (4, Informative)

aceofspades1217 (1267996) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843693)

you just violated the most important rule of usenet -_-

Rule 1 of usenet: Don't ever talk about usenet.

Re:Tag this FUD (-1, Offtopic)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843747)

So who will pickup the slack for Slashdot new UI. Where for some reason you can get more Info from the RSS Feed.

Re:Tag this FUD (1)

ZeroExistenZ (721849) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843991)

The internet is resilient, and someone somewhere will pick up the slack that could be left by TPB going down.

Exactly. BT filled in the void left after suprnova.org [wikipedia.org] shut down.

Re:Tag this FUD (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844223)

i think only the US buys that crap that it's impossible to build out any decent broadband, backbone and servers to handle it. We can, we have and there's nothing stopping us. Give it a few decades and 100Mbit+ connections will be commonplace.

RIP bittorent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843399)

We hardly knew ye.

Obama comments on Judd Gregg's withdrawl (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843407)

from consideration as Commerce Secretary: "If I said it wasn't a disappointment, that would lack credibility."

Then why don't you just say that you're disappointed, you aloof piece of shit? So much for being a uniter and attracting bipartisan support. This guy Gregg couldn't even stomach you in spite of you dangling a cabinet post in front of him.

BooFuckingHoo (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843409)

More importantly, why do I only see titles on the front page, and no stories?

This is forcing me to click on every one of them in order to read them and decide if the topic is interesting enough for me to spend some time reading comments.

Very annoying.

Bit Torrent has recovered before (5, Interesting)

DontLickJesus (1141027) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843411)

Forgive the crudeness, but this is bull. Bit Torrent has survived a major tracker shutdown before (Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suprnova.org [wikipedia.org] ). Traffic will redirect, other trackers will open in their place, and things will return to normal within a week.

Re:Bit Torrent has recovered before (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843873)

Actually, Bittorrent survived, but the trackers didn't. According to a talk at 24c3, one (public) tracker after the other collapsed due to the heavy load, after TPB shut down.

Re:Bit Torrent has recovered before (5, Funny)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844045)

Did you just say "bull"? That's no kind of language for a distinguished web forum like Slashdot! You wash your mouth out with soap, young man!

Re:Bit Torrent has recovered before (1)

jambarama (784670) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844065)

I think the very resilience of these p2p networks to seizures (TPB in 2006), shutdowns (from grokster to suprnova), attacks of all kinds (see mediadefender) - speak to their incredible value. I'll bet bittorrent is one of the easier ways to disseminate prohibited information through the great firewall of china.

If I was a policy maker and knew of a communications network that was this easy to setup and this hard to disrupt and shutdown, I'd want to ensure it stayed around, especially when times are less stable. I suppose the legal & technical attacks have the effect of selecting the strongest and most anonymous networks, but I they also have a tendency to filter out the most popular networks, which are often (though not always) the most efficient ones.

Re:Bit Torrent has recovered before (5, Informative)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844181)

Which part of "nor did it operate any BitTorrent trackers" do you not comprehend in (from your wikipedia link):

"Suprnova did not host any of the shared files, nor did it operate any BitTorrent trackers for long. It offered the ".torrent" meta files which would tell a BitTorrent client where it could find the BitTorrent tracker."

This can be solved with Linux (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843425)

If everyone just ate a vegan, macrobiotic diet more women would be attracted to be since I am the greatest person who has ever set foots in this town. But the sinister forces of technokogy are preventing us from realizing our dreams of becomung fully humane. In particulare, look out for false friends who talk about "bits" because this is slang for "oral sex." Which we all nknow is a plot by the United Nations and George Foerman to make us buy MICRO$OFT "products". I am writing this to you because I care deeply about it and I think y7ou share the dove that is cooing in my heart with freshness.

BitTorrent collapse? (1)

GerardAtJob (1245980) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843457)

If one close, ten will open...

Probably won't happen.... (5, Interesting)

carterhawk001 (681941) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843459)

As I recall, one of the guys running the site said they had made arrangements such that the actual hardware is no longer under their direct control, so even if they are all found guilty, it would be outside their ability to shut it down, even if ordered to do so by a court.

Re:Probably won't happen.... (2, Insightful)

Computershack (1143409) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843557)

so even if they are all found guilty, it would be outside their ability to shut it down, even if ordered to do so by a court.

You can damned well guarantee that a jail term for failure to comply will suddenly make it possible. I doubt there's many torrent tracker site owners and admins willing to serve jailtime for it.

Re:Probably won't happen.... (1)

shish (588640) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844461)

You can damned well guarantee that a jail term for failure to comply will suddenly make it possible. I doubt there's many torrent tracker site owners and admins willing to serve jailtime for it.

If they do have some control, then they can use it and avoid jail; if they truly don't, is "failing to shut down a server you don't own" a crime? Your scenario only makes sense if it can be proved that they have control, and even after proof being found, they refuse to do it~

Huh? (1)

Who Is The Drizzle (1470385) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843483)

Didn't they already mention before that if something like this happened that they'd just move to somewhere like Antigua and just reopen again?

Re:Huh? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843817)

They already have servers in other countries. The swedish servers was "stolen" by the police in the raid.

Re:Huh? (1)

Zsub (1365549) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843935)

No, that's a great idea really.

Where the hell does Antigua get it's tubes anyway? Because they are going to need hell of a lot bigger ones if TBP is moving there...

Mixed Feelings (0, Redundant)

hags2k (1152851) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843489)

I can't help but have mixed feelings about that. While I don't condone copyright violations or ever recommend the service to others, the pirate bay has been very influential in terms of stirring up some major debates about digital content, which I think is a good thing.

Considering.... (-1, Troll)

Computershack (1143409) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843527)

Considering that a large majority of trackers are for pirated media anyway, I doubt that anyone other than the thieving hypocrites would likely notice.

Re:Considering.... (1)

Dusty00 (1106595) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844201)

thieving hypocrites [citation needed]

If you agree with copyright law and think this is wrong that's fine but I'm having trouble understanding how you find them to be hypocritical. Their basic philosophy seem to be "Okay big content industry, you want to hold our culture hostage, let's see you try it!" Basically exhibiting the Ragnar Danneskjöld school of though.

This is GREAT for bittorrent (3, Insightful)

flagg9483 (940242) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843529)

With Pirate Bay shut down that means that uploaders will move on to better trackers - PRIAVTE trackers - which have higher quality control, fewer trojans, and ratio requirements.

Re:This is GREAT for bittorrent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843609)

Ratio requirements which rely on the client reporting accurate up/download amounts to the tracker, great idea...

Re:This is GREAT for bittorrent (1)

jgtg32a (1173373) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843713)

I thought that those numbers were verified by the people you sent data to. You, x would tell the tracker I sent X MB to y peer. Tracker would ask y peer did you receive X MB from x peer?

If this isn't how it works then why doesn't it work this way?

Re:This is GREAT for bittorrent (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843875)

Because that just shifts the problem to a second client... You can run a second one yourself and report fake upload amounts. Or even run it on the same network and report -real- upload amounts between each client.

Re:This is GREAT for bittorrent (1)

Malevolyn (776946) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844353)

I experimented with this for a while. Now my ratio on Emporni...er, "Demonoid" is somewhere around 23,000. Of course I don't use it on any private tracker that I actually care about, but it was interesting to see this little weakness in action

Re:This is GREAT for bittorrent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843845)

The only people who use this excuse are a) people who use crap clients like bitcomet/bitlord that dont report properly to the tracker or are poorly implemented, b) leeches that don't share and don't like rules, or c) people banned from private trackers.

Re:This is GREAT for bittorrent (5, Interesting)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843819)

The problem with ratio requirement sites is if you download content "later" (e.g. not in the first day of release), it is sometimes impossible to keep a good ratio no matter how much you try to seed since no one is downloading.

As an example, at one ratio site they had 8 torrents that I was able to get from other sources and one that I wanted. Even after 2-3 days of seeding those 8 torrents, I didn't have enough credits to fully download a single torrent without going negative. Yes, I left it seeding constantly, but most of the time it was all seeders and no leechers.

To be honest, I've never had speed problems for most content from non-ratio-enforcing sites. I've found ratio-enforcing sites to be a major hassle. YES my ratio is well above 1:1 for public content as I don't believe in leeching, but it's actually really difficult to maintain one's ratio on a ratio-enforcing site because you frequently run into a "lots of seeders and no leechers" scenario.

Re:This is GREAT for bittorrent (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26844285)

You're missing the point. Its not about speed or about accumulating stats. It's about keeping the torrent alive. That "later" content that you find it so annoying to seed back to 1:1 won't even be around any longer on the public tracker - it will have been leeched out and dead, but still surviving on the private tracker. And to say that its impossible to keep a good ratio is nonsense. Its easy, just leave the damn thing running. Even on the most overseeded torrent imaginable I can get back to a 2:1 ratio in a couple weeks, so I fail to see what is so impossible about 1:1.

Re:This is GREAT for bittorrent (1)

Malevolyn (776946) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844371)

The absolute best way to get your ratio up is to release your own torrents, and do it often. I've managed to rescue my ratio more than once this way, and usually in 24 hours or less.

Re:This is GREAT for bittorrent (5, Funny)

bluesatin (1350681) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844161)

I got invited to a private tracker the other day that expected everyone to keep a ratio of over 1:1.

It's nice to know some sites are so far up their own arse that they forget quite how bit-torrent works and fail at basic maths.

sssssh! (5, Funny)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843545)

Whenever Pirate Bay goes down, let's everyone agree that bittorrent is dead. Say it very loudly when around RIAA types and look morose, say it looks like we're going to have to pay top dollar for entertainment, pantomime getting out your wallets. And for xod's sake, don't mention any of the other torrent sites. *wink*

Re:sssssh! (5, Funny)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844013)

WHAT other torrent sites? Sheesh you make it sound like there ARE other torrent sites. Didn't you read the summary? The Pirate Bay goes down, and bit torrent goes down. There ARE no "other" sites.

Did I sound convincing?

Re:sssssh! (4, Funny)

Tuoqui (1091447) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844303)

Did I sound convincing?

No but the public has been desensitized enough by bad acting they're used to seeing in MPAA movies that they'll believe it.

Re:sssssh! (1)

camperdave (969942) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844091)

Other sites? Oh! Would that there were other sites. Alas! Pirate bay is the only torrent tracker on the planet. Woe to me! What is left for this weary bag of bones, but to wait patiently for the DVD to be released, and to hope that my feeble eyes may yet be bright enough to see the screen when it is released?

If they kill piratebay (3, Interesting)

javilon (99157) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843583)

the best option is a web of trust plus p2p application. This p2p would be used only to distribute tracker locations and or edonkey links, not the actual content. This way you would need no centralized web servers. Webservers are too easy a target for the MAFIAA.

With this an something like the kad protocol we would have truly distributed content distribution. Not only the files, but the urls for the files.

Re:If they kill piratebay (1)

Moebius Loop (135536) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844501)

Or, you know, another 2-3 torrent sites will appear to fill the void within 7-10 days, and the circle of life continues.

The problem with the oft-proposed solutions of distributed trackers or trust-based sharing is that in addition to making it more difficult for the media empires, it does the same for regular people.

The *AA are gaining assets and funding all the time, and any attempt to make it more difficult for them to infiltrate a segment of the sharing community is far more likely to present a problem for "honest" users than for the gestapo.

The current response to these shutdowns is bothersome for a few days, but it closely mirrors the response of the Internet at large when resources are preempted.

The laws of Sweden still apply to some extent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843603)

Even if we are in the process of removing our rights according to the EU directives. Our constitution the "grundlag" is just a piece of paper with serious-sounding words on it, much less important than, say, an EU-directive.

But the law still applies for a few more year, probably. Pirate Bay can't be put down by the government yet.

If the above sounds at all critical of my government, in my defense I would like to point out that:

1. I am wardriving this through a poorly encrypted WiFi connection that some guy or girl put up in their apartment.

2. Hails to the Great Leader GÃran Persson and the Dear Leader Fredrik Reinfeldt, and our saviors from all that is evil: Justice Minister BostrÃm the Wise and justice minister Ask the talented, who so eminently carries out her work with exceptional quality, considering she's never put her nose in law school. She is truly a genius.

3. This was written back in 2009 and I have since withdrawn all of my criticism of the Swedish Government.

Re:The laws of Sweden still apply to some extent (5, Funny)

Computershack (1143409) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843755)

in my defense I would like to point out that:

1. I am wardriving this through a poorly encrypted WiFi connection that some guy or girl put up in their apartment.

I wonder if it's like my open wifi connection. I'm quite happy for people to come onto mine so I can have a damned good look through their computers. Depending on how bad I'm feeling, they might go away with an unexpected present...

Great article! (3, Funny)

Bieeanda (961632) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843633)

Will seed to 1:1

Re:Great article! (1)

jgtg32a (1173373) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843741)

leech

Re:Great article! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26844227)

Hey, look, I'm replying to a Funny comment, because I want to be a part of it, too and maybe someone will think I made a joke and will vote me Funny, too! Yay! Long live stupidity! Yay! The parent said something funny and I tried to take a slice, so please upvote me. Yay!

I'm tired of these fucktards...

Re: missing a zero, I hope? (3, Funny)

macraig (621737) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844167)

You're missing a zero in that ratio, I hope? That ratio is an order of magnitude off from BitTorrent sainthood.

Not in sweden. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26843653)

The servers is not in sweden, so it's impossible for swedish police to shut them down, and 'the pirates' has no reason to do it themself.(Impossible to prove that they are still running it.)

Re:Not in sweden. (1)

Computershack (1143409) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843853)

The servers is not in sweden, so it's impossible for swedish police to shut them down, and 'the pirates' has no reason to do it themself.(Impossible to prove that they are still running it.)

However the Swedes can put them in prison for aiding and facilitating. They've not done themselves any favours in respect to an "I'm innocent, I don't know what content is on there" with their replies to takedown letters. You can be damned sure that the prospect of doing additional 1-2 years jail time for not complying with a court order to shut them down will see a new found ability to do that. Would you be prepared to spend 12-24 months in prison on top of what you'd already been given just to keep a website going? I know for a fact, I wouldn't.
What you're missing is that the court doesn't have to prove they are still running it. The fact the site is up will be sufficient to prove breach of a judgement.

Re:Not in sweden. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26844213)

The court have to prove they are still running it, and they need to do it in another trail. To get another trail the police would need to get evidence that it is the same people running it. "innocent until proven guilty"

Re:Not in sweden. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26844399)

You can be damned sure that the prospect of doing additional 1-2 years jail time for not complying with a court order ... prepared to spend 12-24 months in prison

Sir, the Swedish legal system does not believe in jail time. To get 24 months of jail time, you would have to kill someone. In cold blood. With an axe. And then set fire to them. And eat the remains. Even then, you're more likely to get an excuse from the judge than jail time. It is very very hard to get jailed in Sweden.

The folks at Piratebay will be convicted and they will face "dagsboter" (fines) of several million, I guess. But I don't think they will be serving a single day in prison.

Re:Not in sweden. (1)

Bashae (1250564) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843995)

Are you sure? Flagfox says the IPs are swedish.

They did have backups in other countries the last time they were shut down though.

Not difficult to see the bias here... (5, Insightful)

flagg9483 (940242) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843743)

1. Tribler designs P2P client that pushes decentralized tracking. 2. Tribler publishes research which predicts doom and gloom for the future of centralized bittorrent trackers. 3. ??? 4. Profit!

Re:Not difficult to see the bias here... (3)

macraig (621737) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844333)

He's right, of course. The bias here is ridiculously obvious.

Well one thing is for sure (4, Insightful)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 5 years ago | (#26843837)

If there is truth to this, then the IP trade groups will go after TPB harder and faster now.

If they switch to Ninnle... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26844035)

...not only will the network stay up, performance will be improved. They need to at least evaluate the new NinnleBSD server package.

It doesn't matter. (5, Interesting)

ledow (319597) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844115)

Shut it down. It won't make any difference.

It will force coders to create a better system.
It will promote the use of another protocol/network that is immune to particular traits of law/jurisdiction that The Pirate Bay may fall foul of.
In the meantime, hundreds of pretenders will show up to take the flak and the sheer volume means that all that can be done is trying to shut them down one at a time with legal threats.

Just look at the history of ANY P2P system and it's pretty much identical.

Give it a few more years, the Internet will be nothing but the basis of a global, anonymous, reliable, authenticatable P2P system that everybody uses to do everything. We have the technology (Tor, CloudVPN, Bittorrent, DHT, etc.), it's just a matter of fine-tuning and prevelance. As an additional bonus, it then won't matter that some people are using IPv6 and some IPv4 - everything will be in this cloud of dark smoke that you can only see what enters and leaves and nothing inbetween. You'll be able to tell that User X shared an MP3 if you are able to see all of User X's traffic. You'll be able to see that User Y downloaded an MP3 if you are able to see all of User Y's traffic. But even compromising User X completely won't reveal to you who User Y is or was. Trying to masquerade as User X without their private key would be useless, so the best you could do (even with the key) would be to propogate false content to... who? Nobody would know - everything is just an anonymous connection from a dozen random peers.

The media companies and governments are, by a process of digital evolution, driving anonymous communications into necessities and they become more prevelant with each generation. Hardly anybody warezed back in the 90's as a percentage of Internet users - now most ordinary people know how to find and download illegal content in a few clicks. Each time the problem of "piracy" is "fixed", it crops up yet again, somewhere else, in a new form that's more convenient, faster, harder to prove and more ubiquitous.

Even in terms of general users - the only things that people ever ask me about when the subject comes up are "something like Napster or something". They've never used Napster but the fame of being shut down was enough to make them into a household name for free/illegal content. Do it to The Pirate Bay (whose name I'm already getting mentioned in conversations from people who I thought couldn't work a mouse) and the same will happen.

It doesn't mean that they *shouldn't* be shutting down The Pirate Bay, or that The Pirate Bay are somehow "right" or "heroes". They have taken advantage of an interesting legal technicality. It just means that you're not going to win with the sorts of tactics where you just try and shut the sites down. Maybe the opportunity for the media companies EVER winning has now passed and they'll never be able to anymore - who knows? But they are trying to catch fog in a net... this isn't a problem they can solve by shutting down a server - they need something else. I don't know what. They certainly don't. But until it exists, they are playing a losing game.

I like how... (1)

spydabyte (1032538) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844117)

I like how the article says that bit-torrent will melt down if a torrent site goes down. Well duh? Wouldn't that be the goal of shutting the site down? What kind of a warning is that.

If anything it's just research that backs the copyright holders desire to shut it down.

PUBLIC trackers might suffer.. (1)

aika (939446) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844183)

...but private trackers will be strong as ever. We just have to move a little more underground to avoid the MAFIAA.

BitTorrent is not a Network (5, Informative)

KeithIrwin (243301) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844231)

There is no such thing as "the BitTorrent network". That's like talking about "the HTTP network". It's a distributed download protocol. It doesn't do search and different trackers and torrents are not interconnected in any way. Thus, it is not a network. The ability to use BitTorrent will not be harmed in any way by any one site going down.

Remember when everyone used suprnova and then it went away? The world of BitTorrent will be fine.

i hope it gets fixed soon (1)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844251)

i would hate to see legal torrents disabled because of a few copywrite infringers, please think of the children ^^err The Linux ISOs...

A FEATURE, not a bug... (0, Redundant)

nweaver (113078) | more than 5 years ago | (#26844305)

For all those who go "But BitTorrent has noninfringing usages", having PirateBay go away will have no effect on the legitimate torrents. Its only the pirate-trackers that will melt down.

So for those interested in legitimate P2P content delivery, this "meltdown" would be a feature, not a bug, because as long as BitTorrent is almost all piracy, it is easier to make a case for traffic management.

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