Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

350,000 Linux (Virtual) Desktops Land In Brazil

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the rip-helio-gracie dept.

Education 109

xufem writes "Millions of Brazilian schoolchildren will soon be 'brought up right' running Linux on over 350,000 seats each using PC sharing hardware and software from Userful and KDE. This is world's largest virtual desktop deployment and probably also the world's largest Linux deployment, and seems to have been selected over OLPC by Brazil. Definitely a moment to celebrate — and just in time for Brazilian Carnival which starts tomorrow!"

cancel ×

109 comments

MS Hate (-1, Troll)

jetsci (1470207) | more than 5 years ago | (#26918521)

Ok, I'm tired of these Anti-Microsoft/Mac articles. Sure, I love/use Linux but how is using Microsoft 'the wrong way'? Does it have some major flaws? Sure.

But it's certainly not all bad, heck, I got this botnet going without a hitch.

Re:MS Hate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26918957)

how is using Microsoft 'the wrong way'?

It's not Free software, ergo kids can't hack on it. Granted many may not choose/need to, but out of 350,000 there are going to be some.

Have to say, I'm glad Nicholas WhingaboutWindows-ponte has been proven wrong about these countries wanting Windows.

Re:MS Hate (1)

jetsci (1470207) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920245)

I use free software when I can but can I be bothered to 'hack' the source code? Not if I can help it. I have a lot of other responsibilities. I've 'converted' a lot of Windows users to Linux and frankly, I don't see them playing with source anytime soon.

Hmm... (1)

kabocox (199019) | more than 5 years ago | (#26918625)

Nice headline and all. I don't really care about it at the moment though. I want to hear back after they've been running the program for 5-10 years. Or do they quietly cancel the program after a year or two of failures? (Any project of this size will have road bumps that need to be solved. Will they be solved or will they spend the money and buy the machines, yet the machines never end up assigned to students for another 4 years?)

Extramadura Spain (4, Informative)

emj (15659) | more than 5 years ago | (#26918759)

The place to look would be Extramdura in Spain, they have been using Linux for a long time. They claim very, very low costs. I don't have any recent posts but LWN wrote about it in 2003 [lwn.net] , and last time I heard it was still going strong.

Re:Extramadura Spain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26919287)

They used Catalan money to buy their Linux licenses.

Re:Extramadura Spain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26920935)

Trolly, there's no Linux license to pay. They may pay for something else, but not for the license.

Re:Extramadura Spain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26921049)

There's always the $699 SCO fee. You should remember to pay it.

Extremadura, Spain (1)

mangu (126918) | more than 5 years ago | (#26921179)

Trolly, there's no Linux license to pay. They may pay for something else, but not for the license.

How do you say "wooosh" in Spanish?

(BTW, tha write speling is Extremadura, well at least in Castellano Spanish it is)

Re:Extramadura Spain (1)

lordtoran (1063300) | more than 5 years ago | (#26922871)

They used Catalan money to buy their Linux licenses.

Spain pays in Euros, like every decent country.

Pay attention to the license (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26919049)

This solution may not be entirely Free/Libre:

http://support.userful.com/wiki/index.php/Manuals/UMx/Readme#Copyrights.2C_Licenses_and_Trademarks

"Copyrights, Licenses and Trademarks

Userful Multiplier is commercial software and contains proprietary, patent-pending intellectual property. See the Userful-EULA.txt file for full terms of the license agreement."

From the EULA in the download:

2. LICENSE TERMS
==================
2.1. Software is owned and copyrighted by Userful and/or by third party suppliers. Customer's Software and Support License confers no title or ownership and is not a sale of any rights in the Software. Third party suppliers shall have the rights to protect its own proprietary rights to the Software in the event of any infringement.
2.2. Unless otherwise permitted by Userful, Customer may only make copies of the Software for archival purposes or when copying is an essential step in the authorized use of the Software on a backup device, provided that copies are used in no other manner and provided further that the use on the backup device is discontinued when the original or replacement device becomes operable.
2.3. Customer may not use more terminals than stipulated in the License, nor may the software be used if it is not within the Term of Validity of the most recent License or Support Agreement with the Customer.
2.4. Customer will not modify, disassemble or decompile the Software without Userful's prior written consent. Where Customer has other rights under statute, Customer will provide Userful with reasonably detailed information regarding any intended disassembly or decompilation. Customer will not decrypt the Software unless necessary for legitimate use of the Software. In addition Customer will take all reasonable steps to ensure that users of Userful's software in Customer's possession do none of the aforementioned.
2.5. The customer shall not:
2.5.1. Remove any product identification, copyright notices, or other notices or proprietary restrictions from the Software;
2.5.2. Disclose results of any benchmark tests of the Software to any third party without Userful's prior written approval
2.6. Userful may terminate Customer's License upon notice for failure to comply with any applicable License terms.
2.7. If Customer does not renew a license agreement with Userful by the termination date all Userful software must be immediately removed from the Customer's computers at the Customer's expense.

3. LICENSE GRANT
==================
3.1. Subject to timely payment of the License Fee and the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Userful grants Customer a non-exclusive and non-transferable license to use the Software during the Term of Validity of the License in conformance with:
3.1.1. The terms set forth herein;
3.1.2. Use restrictions and authorizations for the Software specified in the Customer Agreement;
3.2. Many of the Software Programs included in Userful's software are distributed under the terms of agreements with Third Parties ("Third Party Agreements") that may expand or limit Customer's rights to use certain Software Programs as set forth in Section 2. Certain Software Programs may be licensed (or sublicensed) to Customer under the GNU General Public License and other similar open source license agreements ("OSLAs") which, among other rights, permit Customer to copy, modify and redistribute certain Software Programs, or portions thereof, and have access to the source code of certain Software Programs, or portions thereof. In addition, certain Software Programs, or portions thereof, may be licensed (or sublicensed) to Customer under terms stricter than those set forth in Section 2. Please visit and review www.userful.com/support/licenses for the on-line documentation that accompanies certain Software Programs, or portions thereof, for the applicable Third Party Agreements. To the extent any Third Party Agreements require that Userful provide rights to use, copy or modify a Software Program that are broader than the rights granted in Section 2, then such rights shall take precedence over the rights and restrictions granted in this Agreement solely for such Software Programs.
3.3. Unless the Customer is a Userful authorized reseller, Customer may not sublicense the Software unless otherwise agreed to by Userful in writing.

11. GENERAL
=====================
11.1. Customer may not assign any rights or obligations hereunder without prior written consent of Userful, which consent can be unreasonably withheld.
11.2. Customer who exports, re-exports or imports Userful Hardware and Licensed Software, technology or technical data purchased hereunder, assumes responsibility for complying with applicable laws and regulations and for obtaining required export and import authorizations. Userful may suspend performance if Customer is in violation of any applicable laws or regulations.
11.3. If any term or provision herein is determined to be illegal or unenforceable, the validity or enforceability of the remainder of the terms or provisions herein will remain in full force and effect
11.4. Except as specifically provided in Section 3.1.2, these Userful Software and Support License Terms supersede any previous communications, representations or agreements between the parties, whether oral or written, regarding transactions hereunder. Customer's additional or different terms and conditions will not apply. These Userful Software and Support License Terms may not be changed except by an amendment signed by an authorized representative of each party.

 

Re:Hmm... (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919411)

Any large IT project I don't care what OS you use will cost a lot more then you expect. License Costs are the least of your problems. As they are the easiest to calculate Seats*License Cost per seat and is also the smallest part of the equation. The most expensive is human capital and Change Management to get them doing thing the right way.

Re:Hmm... (4, Interesting)

Facetious (710885) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919635)

I disagree. Back when I was the sole IT guy for a factory, I figured about one fourth of my time was spent figuring out what licenses we had, which ones we needed, etc. The actual license costs are easily identified, but the admin time wasted dealing with licenses is not.

Re:Hmm... (2, Insightful)

grahamsz (150076) | more than 5 years ago | (#26925909)

Not to mention the headaches recovering a failed machine. Random software will decide that you've moved it to a new machine and will deactivate your serial number.

The last thing you need when everything's smoldering around you is to sit on hold with the vendor while they deactivate you old serial so you can reinstall the software you've paid for.

Linux has its flaws but being able to easily install a pile of software on a freshly deployed machine is a godsend.

but employees need to be fired - cutting costs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26922275)

nice try, PHB

Re:Hmm... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26919537)

While I could not find really useful English links about it, the Open.Amsterdam [amsterdam.nl] project has been running for two years now, and last October the City Council have declared [amsterdam.nl] that the long-term goal is to have all of the local government on open-source desktops. The pilot used SuSE Linux for two of the city's departments. Along with the wide-scale deployments like Munich or Vienna have done, I think you will have plenty data points in a few years.

See here [www.osor.eu] for a minor press release in English.

Big mistake. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26918645)

linux makes a terrible desktop, and now brazilian children will be startin gout their education on a platform that noone with any brains uses for serious work. all this means is that when these kids graduate, they are going to have to take remedial classes to learn windows and os x, real operating systems where real work gets done.

Re:Big mistake. (2, Funny)

theskipper (461997) | more than 5 years ago | (#26918917)

Disagree. I'd rather my kid got a case of gout from Linux than a virus from using Windows.

Of course neither is as bad as the swelled cranium that results from using a Mac...

Re:Big mistake. (2, Insightful)

Vectronic (1221470) | more than 5 years ago | (#26918959)

Pfft, troll... especially implying that using Linux leads to gout... lol

Seriously though, the basic day-to-day operation of Windows, Linux, OSX, etc... is about the same as the various types of the english language, yeah we stumble on some metaphors, and references, but I can switch between them all quite easily, besides where the "work" gets done, is in the software UI, which is even more seamless between OS's...

Re:Big mistake. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26921291)

Whoosh?

Re:Big mistake. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26919229)

Fuck if that's the English you learned on Windows then no thanks!

Re:Big mistake. (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919675)

LOL, at what point does a troll become so blatant that it deserves a Funny mod?

Re:Big mistake. (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920415)

Oh, crap! I'd better tell my employers that we've been wasting our time on a toy OS! Thanks a ton, AC!

Re:Big mistake. (1)

lordtoran (1063300) | more than 5 years ago | (#26923015)

all this means is that when these kids graduate, they are going to have to take remedial classes to learn windows and os x, real operating systems where real work gets done.

Like playing games and removing malware?

Tell me when it's done (2, Insightful)

Main MAn (162800) | more than 5 years ago | (#26918683)

The Brazilian government is really good in announcing things, but not really good in making them happen. ie http://br-linux.org/2008/um-ano-apos-fiasco-governo-marca-novo-pregao-por-laptops-educacionais

So let me know when they start to deploy it.

Re:Tell me when it's done (4, Informative)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 5 years ago | (#26918709)

The Brazilian government is really good in announcing things, but not really good in making them happen.

Ethanol.

Re:Tell me when it's done (3, Informative)

kusanagi374 (776658) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919149)

But Gasoline is more cost-effective than Ethanol where I live, for instance.

Because:
1. While Gasoline is about 42% more expensive than Ethanol, the mpg is lower on Ethanol. So, to correclty compare prices, you have to multiply the gasoline price by 0.7. When I do that, Gasoline ends up being 5% cheaper.
2. There is no control over ethanol tampering in Brazil. Quite a few gas stations add a bit of water to the tanks, and the flexible fuel cars won't stop working because of that. You just get lower mileage.
3. The temperature in our region is lower (Hey, 25ÂC is SMOKING HOT for me). We actually have a bit of snow during the winter... and Ethanol doesn't play nicely with cold temperatures. The engine deals with it by adding gasoline to the mix.

Unless you live in Sao Paulo (where ethanol is 45% cheaper when comparing prices vs mileage), it's just not worth it.

Diesel cars, the ones that are truly efficient, are not allowed in Brazil. That is because while Brazil doesn't depend on others for heavy crude oil, we have to import ALL of our light crude oil... and diesel cars would screw up the import/export balance. What about biodiesel, you say? We barely have enough volume to replace the diesel used in our trucks, nevermind fueling cars.

Re:Tell me when it's done (2, Interesting)

Wooky_linuxer (685371) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919583)

It doesn't matter. We have the technology to completely switch to ethanol (where cars are concerned, anyways) if we need to.

I agree the politic on ethanol pricing is less than ideal (and sometimes downright stupid), but I think the important point is that we managed to develop a viable fuel alternative -ok, we might have been lucky for already having an established sugar cane production, and having the area to do so but nonetheless we made it. Most other countries would love to be in that position. Biodiesel still haven't got volume simply because it isn't economically viable at the moment, but we could easily increase production in a few years if needed.

Re:Tell me when it's done (5, Interesting)

marcosdumay (620877) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919911)

Well, an anecdote does not make a pattern. Ethanol is cheaper than gasoline on almost the entire brazilian territory. Except for, it seems, where it snows (You realize we are talking about some 2% of the territory here, and some very unusual 2%, don't you?). Now, did you take into account that gasoline also lacks quality control, and is some times mixed with kinds of solvents that, differently from water, damage your motor?

Re:Tell me when it's done (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26920409)

No it is not. Fuel price is artificially manipulated by the government to make ethanol more atractive.

Re:Tell me when it's done (1)

dafradu (868234) | more than 5 years ago | (#26921257)

You live in Brazil? The same Brazil i live? I have never head of snow in Brazil, not even in the south region, in high altitude cities... They get a little frost during the night, thats all.

Ethanol cars always had trouble starting up when its cold, and by cold i'm saying Rio de Janeiro cold, 15ÂC. I remember when my father had to add a little gas to the carburetor (i think) to be able to start the car...

This doesn't happen anymore with Gas/Ethanol (flex fuel) cars.

Re:Tell me when it's done (2, Informative)

Fluffeh (1273756) | more than 5 years ago | (#26922157)

You live in Brazil? The same Brazil i live? I have never head of snow in Brazil, not even in the south region, in high altitude cities... They get a little frost during the night, thats all.

Prepare to be amazed! Prepare to have you socks knocked off your frost bitten feet! Prepare to make icicles like only a man can in the winter!

Santa Catarina [sc.gov.br]
Rio Grande do Sul [homestead.com]
Brazillian Snow Ski Holiday [rentmeavacation.com] (Okay, there is in fact only ONE result...)

Re:Tell me when it's done (1)

dafradu (868234) | more than 5 years ago | (#26922707)

Thats what i'm talking about: "The temperature there reaches 32Â Fahrenheit at the heart of winter." When that happens the news report from the site and everything... lol.

Re:Tell me when it's done (1)

hnangelo (1098127) | more than 5 years ago | (#26922357)

You should know your own country a little better... It snows every year in the mountains of the south region, specially RS and SC.

Re:Tell me when it's done (1)

JOrgePeixoto (853808) | more than 5 years ago | (#26927737)

My friend, think more carefully before speaking. Really. Specially on the Internet. Every stupidity (I'm not in anyway saying *you* are stupid, but *what you said* was stupid) you post on the Internet gets indexed, mirrored, and can hunt you many years after the fact.

And regarding the problems ethanol cars have with cold, I believe this is a characteristic of carburator based Ethanol cars. This problem has been solved many years ago with electronic fuel injection, AFAIK. And electronic fuel injection arrived much earlier than the flex fuel technology.

Re:Tell me when it's done (1)

tcheleao (171167) | more than 5 years ago | (#26922299)

I don't know in what country YOU live.....I live in Cambara do sul/RS, Here snows every year.
In potugues:
Nao sei em que pais vives....Aqui em Cambara do sul/RS neva todos os anos. Caso voces brasileiros nos excluam, seria uma bencao para nos.

Re:Tell me when it's done (1)

JOrgePeixoto (853808) | more than 5 years ago | (#26927663)

Don't misrepresent the facts. He is already aware that there is a small amount of snow in certain Brazilian places.

And it is true that snow is _very_ rare in Brazil. When there is a bit of snow in a city, it gets on nationwide TV news, and people travel there to see it. And we are talking of _a bit_ of snow.

Only in some really extreme places, such as high altitude places in the southernmost part of the territory, do we have "real" snow, like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Neve_santa_catarina.jpg [wikipedia.org]

E tenha respeito pela sua pátria, moleque.

Re:Tell me when it's done (2, Interesting)

Caue (909322) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920113)

Diesel is the least efficient. Altough it has higher cal. output, it does ignite soly by the pressure in the chamber, making it EXTREMELY hard to keep tuned. Notice all the black fumes coming from larger trucks and suvs running on diesel? that's called incomplete burning. Poorly tuned engines do that. To keep everything going, you have to use more oil. The oil comes into the chamber when its not well tuned then... oil burning. it's quite a mess.

I live in santa catarina, (that's a brazilian state) and we all use ethanol. In Parana, rio grande do sul, rio de janeiro and minas gerais, the ethanol is the better choice. And by the way, all fuel in brazil is tampered, not only ethanol.

Oh, and Sao Paulo (my home state) responds for half the cars in brazil, so... there you go. Ethanol is the way to go, at least for now. Ford tought of cars running on electricity a hundred years ago, but we are so cheap.

diesel is forbidden because of the subsidies. the governament, back in the 50', chose trucks over rails. But to make the logistic costs at a reasonable mark, they had to subside everything; well, not for the personal auto industry, since that would make one hell of a bill in the end of a tax year.

since you are a brazilian like me, I would advise you: a não ser que mores no nordeste ou no norte, provavelmente alcool vale mais a pena pra voce. Fora que é melhor alcool com agua do que gasolina com solvente e alcool ;)

Re:Tell me when it's done (1)

JOrgePeixoto (853808) | more than 5 years ago | (#26927843)

"barely have enough volume to replace the diesel used in our trucks" !? AFAIK, we are not even close to replace the diesel used in our trucks, they mix only like 2% of biodiesel with the fossil diesel. This is from my memory. And right now I checked Wikipedia, which seems to confirm the current percentage is 2%, with 5% planned for 2010 or 2011.

Oh, and the "Unless you live in Sao Paulo" bit was horribly wrong. ethanol is more cost-effective than gasoline in nearly the entire territory. That is the reason for ethanol use as fuel to be rising so fast, having long surpassed gasoline.

It already is half-way done (1)

xufem (940138) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919443)

Looks (from the press release) http://www2.userful.com/company/linux-desktop-virtualization [userful.com] like 18,000 seats have already been deployed and are running well. And the budget has already been allocated and system vendors have won the auctions to supply the hardware.

Re:Tell me when it's done (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26919925)

Ethanol.

ethanol is already a reality, at least here in brazil. every gas station has ethanol for sale and almost all new cars sold in the last 5 years is what we call "flex". these cars can have any kind of mixture between gas and ethanol, so you are free to buy ethanol or gasoline when you want. most people buy ethanol when it's price is below 70% of the gasoline, which happens most of the time.

Wonderfully understated (4, Informative)

Mark_in_Brazil (537925) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920965)

GP said:

The Brazilian government is really good in announcing things, but not really good in making them happen.

PP said:

Ethanol.

Wonderfully understated. But in this case, taking it further is interesting. So here I go...

Brazil's government has achieved a bunch of really aggressive goals in recent years. Let's start with the ones in energy independence...

* Ethanol is a viable fuel, being based on sugar cane and not corn. It's been that way for a while now.
* New cars in Brazil are now sold with engines that are equally happy burning gasoline or ethanol or a mix (or, with a conversion, natural gas - see below)
* Natural gas, originally imported via a pipeline from Bolivia, and now with big reserves found in Brazil, presents another alternative fuel with environmental, financial, and geopolitical advantages over petroleum. The pipeline was announced and then successfully executed. Exploiting Brazil's own natural gas was a new challenge. The programs were announced and then successfully executed.
* Over 95% of Brazil's electrical energy comes from hydroelectric plants. Hydroelectric projects were announced and then executed successfully.
* Total independence from foreign petroleum. Planned, announced, done.

Changing from energy, there are other things, like the...
* massive migration to FOSS going on since the early days of the Lula government (2003-present). I saw with my own two eyes huge numbers of Linux desktops at ITI (Information Technology Institute) and other government offices in 2005-2007. This one is still in the process of happening, and faces very well-funded opposition (from MS and friends), but despite that, it's been successful. Announced and made to happen.
* A more stable (and, not coincidentally, better-regulated) banking system than the one in the USA
* Health care policy that has basically done away with the black market for transplant organs, maintained the viability of what is widely considered the best AIDS policy in the world, and brought the benefits of generic drugs to the Brazilian people. All planned, announced, and executed successfully.
* A GROWING middle class. Tens of millions of people have joined the middle class of Brazil in the last several years. Growing the middle class is often a stated goal, but rarely achieved as spectacularly as it has been in Brazil in recent years

* I would also mention that the Brazilian government paid off close to $20B in loans early just in the year 2005, meeting the goal of reducing foreign debt, which the previous governments seemed to love, and saving something on the order of 10^9 dollars in interest payments. Goal announced, goal achieved.

Every place has its advantages and disadvantages, and wherever you go, the deal is the same: you've got to try to make the most of the advantages and minimize the effects of the disadvantages. Brazil's advantages and disadvantages are different from those of the US. But to say the Brazilian government isn't good at making things happen is just wrong. I hate to pull out a mean word, but here it is: saying the Brazilian government, especially in the last several years, isn't good at making things happen, is just plain ignorant.

In early 2003, the US invaded Iraq to save the world from Saddam Hussein's supposed stocks of weapons of mass destruction, and to fight a war against terrorism and bring peace, stability, and democracy to the Middle East. I remember the announcements. I also remember announcements of how the economic policy would continue US economic dominance into the 21st Century. I'm a US citizen, so I know the answer to this question as I ask it: how are those goals workin' out for ya? Is terrorism down in the last several years? Was the haul of WMDs worth the multi-trillion dollar cost of the stupidest war ever, plus the destabilization of the region? I guess by mentioning the destabilization I kinda ruined the question of whether the Middle East is now more peaceful, stable, and democratic than it was. So I'll close by asking if the US economy is still pumping away on all cylinders, the envy of the world.

Looks to me like the US government is the one that has been good at announcing things and not so good at executing in recent years.

Re:Wonderfully understated (1)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920991)

* Over 95% of Brazil's electrical energy comes from hydroelectric plants. Hydroelectric projects were announced and then executed successfully.

Didn't know that one, thanks. Starting to wish I spoke Portuguese and not Spanish.

Re:Wonderfully understated (4, Informative)

Caue (909322) | more than 5 years ago | (#26921161)

You got real stuff and propaganda stuff all mixed up, dude. Brazil is only independent in the production of heavy oil; we still import more than half the oil used for gasoline, diesel and querosene.

Health care sucks. You can get AIDS medicine, but if you are in an emergency and depend on the SUS (sistema unico de saude, unified health system) you're pretty much toast. that's why health plans sell like water around here.

Our financial system broke down several times in the last 70 years; the american and european broke twice.

No new hydroelectric plants are coming around until 2015. All the recent growth is based on gas and coal burning, and some crude oil.

The middle class in brazil is different than the middle class in other states. Here, middle class don't have two cars, nice house with front lawn and a trip to disney every year; we strugle between paying the rent and paying school and highschool for our children, because the educational system is a hell of a mess.

We are not so good, but we are not so bad either. I speak that as a brazilian. I really love brazil, but i'm as skeptical as the next guy when it comes to analysing this or any other governaments before.

Re:Wonderfully understated (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26924623)

Health care sucks.

I am not sure if Health care sucks.

Compared to England it is much better.

I have to travel at least once a year to Brazil, to get a *better* treatment from the "cursed" SUS (you speak of).. because here in the UK - well things are pretty slow.

It took 2 years in the queue, for me to be tested here in England for some neurological stuff.

Whereas in Brazil, just under 3 months.

And then there is America. If you are poor and living in the US - you are pretty much stuffed. You can't even get proper free treatment over there.

Re:Wonderfully understated (2, Informative)

Mark_in_Brazil (537925) | more than 5 years ago | (#26926035)

You got real stuff and propaganda stuff all mixed up, dude. Brazil is only independent in the production of heavy oil; we still import more than half the oil used for gasoline, diesel and querosene.

I'm honestly not sure if this is the case. It doesn't contradict what Petrobras says [petrobras.com.br] (in Portuguese) on its site: that average daily production is higher than average daily consumption of petroleum products in Brazil. Meanwhile, new platforms are coming online and huge new reserves have been discovered, so petroleum production in Brazil is expected to grow faster than consumption.
Those ethanol and natural gas cars, plus the hydroelectric power, make this possible. The Angra nuclear reactors are a joke, at least as far as energy production in concerned. I suspect they may exist solely so Brazil can have a nuclear weapons program. Officially, it doesn't, but why the insistence on continuing a program that has been so spectacularly unsuccessful?
Anyway, in the near future, we can expect average daily petroleum production in Brazil to grow significantly more than average daily petroleum consumption, and Brazil can become a major petroleum exporter.

Health care sucks. You can get AIDS medicine, but if you are in an emergency and depend on the SUS (sistema unico de saude, unified health system) you're pretty much toast. that's why health plans sell like water around here.

There's another reason. Health plans are significantly more affordable in Brazil than in the US. And before you go badmouthing Brazilian health care, I'll point out that there is still "medical tourism" in Brazil, where people from the US and other uncivilized countries (it's a joke - I'm from the US) find that even adding in the cost of international travel, private health care providers, and private accomodations, it's still significantly less expensive to fly to Brazil and have the surgery done there. Why Brazil? Because obviously price is not the only consideration, and Brazil has an excellent cost-benefit: quality health care provided much less expensively than in the US. I'm paying a lot less for my (Unimed Paulistana) health plan here than I would pay for a plan in the US, and I've found the quality of care to be pretty good.
Are you aware that there are about 50 million US citizens that can't afford any kind of health plan, and that the latest ex-president of the US once argued that really people without insurance are fine, because they can go to emergency rooms?

Our financial system broke down several times in the last 70 years; the american and european broke twice.

Oh, of course. Brazil has dealt with major economic instability. What I'm saying is that Brazil's banking system is better-regulated and therefore, at this point, more secure than its counterpart in the US.
There's a mini-version of what happened in the recent US housing bubble going on in Brazil now with cars. Just like unethical lenders did in the US with mortgages, unethical lenders in Brazil have been pushing people to take loans they probably can't pay to buy new cars. There are many people around who have cars they realistically cannot afford, but like their home-buying counterparts in the States, they have gone ahead and bought the cars anyway. In a year or so, I expect relatively new used cars to be really cheap, because there will be so many forfeitures, seizures, and auctions. The tightening of credit due to the US-born worldwide financial crisis has already started to reduce the demand for some cars in Brazil. But in the environment of relatively cheap and easy credit that obtained in recent years, lots and lots of people, including many who probably should not have, bought new cars. Since people don't pay enough attention to the total of what they're paying on loans, and since there was so much demand for cars, the prices climbed unrealistically, like real estate prices in the US. A new Honda Civic cost just slightly (I'm talkin' something like US$50) less in Brazil than in the US in the first quarter of 2002. A new Honda Civic in Brazil now costs about twice what it cost just a few years ago in local currency. As of June of this year, it was even worse in dollars: the price of a new Honda Civic had climbed from about US$15,000 to about US$45,000. Yes, three times as much. The point is that those prices were outrageously inflated. But with demand so high you had to get on a waiting list to pay outrageous prices for cars like the Civic, even people with cash couldn't negotiate the prices down significantly.
The good news is that unlike with the unrealistic inflation of housing prices in the US, the bad car loans are the end of the story. In the US, the banks got out of just about all regulation and oversight and built a US$62 TRILLION structure on top of the couple hundred billion in bad mortgages. Through credit swaps and packaging groups of bad loans as "investments" and then creating derivative investments on top of them, the banks appeared to magically create these tens of trillions of dollars out of nothing and nowhere. So I guess nobody should be all that surprised when suddenly the US banking system is screwed. This is not a mere liquidity issue, as the banks and their apologists would like to pretend. This is a full-on solvency crisis, and there are just a lot of banks out there that lost (LOST) an awful lot of money.
So what's the point? The point is that Brazil is a third world nation, but its banking system is better-regulated and safer than that of the US. Brazil has weathered a bunch of economic crises, as the PP noted, but not one of those became a worldwide solvency crisis.

The middle class in brazil is different than the middle class in other states. Here, middle class don't have two cars, nice house with front lawn and a trip to disney every year; we strugle between paying the rent and paying school and highschool for our children, because the educational system is a hell of a mess.
Uh, I grew up in the middle class in the US, and we did not have trips to Disney every year. In fact, nobody I knew had that. Further, all the middle class families I knew in the US struggled with things like paying the rent or paying for school. My family decided it had to come up with the additional money for me to go to a private school from 5th grade through graduation, and for my sister to go to that school from 3rd grade through her graduation. The public educational system in the US also has its problems that make people in the middle class have to make some tough choices.

We are not so good, but we are not so bad either. I speak that as a brazilian.

That fits pretty well with what I said a couple of paragraphs from the end of my (grandparent) post. Brazil does have its problems. It's a third world country, and it has all the problems you'd expect, including poverty and crime. But it's also a country with a bright future, and one that is growing quickly. Like any other place, Brazil has its advantages and disadvantages. At this moment, I find I can enjoy the advantages and minimize the effects of the disadvantages better in Brazil right now than I could in my country of birth, the USA. That doesn't mean I hate the USA or my fellow citizens. It just means Brazil is the right place for me now. I don't speak for others, and I don't know if it will be the right place for me in 10 years.

Re:Wonderfully understated (1)

Caue (909322) | more than 5 years ago | (#26927051)

That was a wonderfull reply. Filled with passion and belief, and I reckon that's just what we all need.

The petroleum part is still messed up - since we extract bad petroleum and have to buy good petroleum. It's one of those things nobody can explain, but until now, we haven't had so much luck with our oil searching. The mega discoveries last year are being used as political propaganda; we are not sure they are viable YET. Not at this prices, it isn't, too damn deep.

Other than that, it amazes me how much you know about our country. I lived overseas and I know what is like to be a curious outsider, taking notes about every single detail. It's fantastic, isn't it? I hope i'll be able to do it again, maybe this time i'll go to the usa.

cheers mate.

Little (important) note (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26927251)

I don't like the way people speak of advances in these later years as something that just magically "poff" appeared.

Ethanol program (Proalcool) was a response from the military government on the 70's, developed on a military institute, where civilians like me work. There was earlier research. It was in no way some magical result from these later years. You probably remember Embraer as a result of this institute too, right?

Re:Tell me when it's done (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26926015)

Well, you are probably one of the pathetic Brazilians we see around here in your country believing in any shit your press waves around. Your press is known as the most fantasizing in the world (see what Europeans have to say about your pathetic lies from the Brazilian press after the Fake pregnant girl attack in Switzerland...).
I am an American living and working in Brazil, and, AFAIC, everything the Brazilian government announces they DO fulfill. Sometimes take longer than expected but they end up fulfilling it.

And about the next retarded post regarding Ethanol: just get out of your momma's basement and come to Brazil and you will see that Ethanol is real and everywhere.

And for all the other Americans that are suffering with the retardation that brought our country to this economic depression I tell you something: COME TO BRAZIL! There is plenty of work for any American IT professional here, with a fat paycheck. Brazilian IT guys are so incompetent, outdated and retarded that the only thing you have to show to get hired by any Brazilian company is your Navy-Blue Passport...

I do lots of consulting for the Brazilian Fed government and the only thing I really had to do was to improve my Portuguese.
And chicks are indeed HOT!

No, no, no (5, Funny)

hwyhobo (1420503) | more than 5 years ago | (#26918703)

I am known by my friends as a UNIX bigot, but I need to inject a little sanity here. Running Linux on the desktop is not a precondition to a good upbringing. We all know it's the editor you use that determines that.

Editor (1)

troll8901 (1397145) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919191)

I control the butterfly [xkcd.com] , so there!

Re:No, no, no (2, Funny)

von_rick (944421) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919265)

vi & nano - the force runs strong in those two.

Re:No, no, no (1)

cb88 (1410145) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919651)

what! no mp (miminum profit editor)

Re:No, no, no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26919853)

Nano? You disgust me...
If you think that vi/vim is even comparable to nano, then you've never learnt how to use it properly. Vim is easily the most efficient editor out there.

Re:No, no, no (2, Funny)

fireman sam (662213) | more than 5 years ago | (#26922479)

I heard that emacs is actually quite good to use... If you have 6 fingers on each hand (not including thumbs as emacs users have not evolved to opposable thumbs)

Re:No, no, no (2, Funny)

marcosdumay (620877) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919933)

The government loves standards... They'll probably go with ed.

Re:No, no, no (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920431)

I vote that Emacs doesn't count as an editor. It's basically an OS on its own...I mean, do you ever say "My favorite text editor is Linux!" No? Didn't think so!

Re:No, no, no (1)

halcyon1234 (834388) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920599)

Running Linux on the desktop is not a precondition to a good upbringing. We all know it's the editor you use that determines that.

And the editor we used was timothy, who determined it. Yeesh.

Finally!!! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26918789)

The year of the (virtual) Linux desktop is here!*

*Valid only in Brazil.

making a profit on GNU/Linux .. (2, Informative)

viralMeme (1461143) | more than 5 years ago | (#26918951)

"While others debate whether GNU/Linux is ready for the desktop, Userful is quietly proving that it is -- and making a profit while doing so"

"By combining a mixture [linux.com] of proprietary administrative tools with a modified Red Hat distribution and a GNOME desktop, Userful has updated the concept of timesharing by adapting it to a personal computer. The result is DiscoverStation, a hardware and software solution that connects as many as 10 terminals to a single computer"

I hope not (-1, Flamebait)

Ex-Linux-Fanboy (1311235) | more than 5 years ago | (#26918953)

I hope not.

There was, once upon a time a perfectly useful desktop, KDE3. Then came KDE4, which was a complete rewrite.

Well, actually, it's an incomplete rewrite. KDE4 doesn't have basic functionality you would expect a desktop environment to have, such as a GUI tool for configuring the network. KDE3 had one, but they never bother to write one for KDE4.

Gnome has issues too, such as a CD burner that doesn't create correct Windows-compatible long file names (Brasero), a screensaver that likes to crash, resulting in having all applications close and having to log in again, among other issues.

Linux is not ready for the desktop (all of these examples come from Ubuntu 8.10, which in a moment of foolishness installed on my system and am still using)

Re:I hope not (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920587)

I ditched KDE a long while ago. Brasero has issues....apparently neither GnomeBaker nor K3b do. Use one of those. I've never had trouble with the screensaver, or with one program causing another one to close.

Linux works just fine for me. I use it just like I do Windows. Stuff "just works". Setting up my dual displays was a pain in the ass, but that was a 1-time annoyance. If you are having such big problems with Ubuntu, then why are you still running it?? Why not go back to another OS? And why didn't you use a spare drive to assess potential problems before (apparently) wiping out your old system?

Re:I hope not (1)

Ex-Linux-Fanboy (1311235) | more than 5 years ago | (#26921319)

My frustration is with people thinking that Windows is more dominant only because it's what users are comfortable with or because of close file formats. No, I'm sorry, Linux is not ready for the desktop. It's getting closer; for the end user where we're at now is a lot better than in 1995 when FVWM was the main desktop.

But, still, the code seems to be in a perpetual state of being beta-quality. The quality of Linux is like a really early beta of Windows 95. A lot of programs don't work correctly or have issues with crashing. On a stock Ubuntu install.

I mean, if Gnome Baker is so much better than Brasero, than why does Ubuntu use Brasero instead of Gnome Baker? There really needs to be more quality control here.

I simple don't understand why Ubuntu is so popular. It's been a massive headache for me. I've mentioned a lot of my issues on my blog [blogspot.com] and one poster points out I might be better off with Mepis or Fedora Core.

I think I will give Fedora core a chance; the nice thing about Fedora core is every few years, RedHat takes this software and makes an ultra-stable version of it that's supported for seven years (thay last did this with Fedora Core 6 around 2006-2007 and should be making RHEL 6 from Fedora core 10 or 11 late this year or early next year), which can be freely downloaded as CentOS.

Right now, Gnome is the desktop of choice since KDE basically threw out all of their work in the KDE3->KDE4 transition. Hopefully, once Nokia LGPLs Qt we will see the KDE developers calm down and make something that's stable and supported for the long-term.

But, yes Ubuntu makes me want to run to the Linux hater's blog [blogspot.com] . Thankfully, it's easy for me to switch OSes; I do all of my real work in VMware virtual machines and it's a simple matter of backing up and restoring my virtual machines to a new OS, whether it be Linux or Windows.

My only issues with Linux are it being a desktop OS. It's an excellent server OS, especially if one uses RHEL or CentOS (Maybe CentOS 5.3 will work with all of my hardware, which would be nice since then I won't have to reinstall until early 2014)

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me and for the suggestion. I have just removed Brasero and installed Gnome Baker. We'll see if this works any better.

Re:I hope not (2)

Hucko (998827) | more than 5 years ago | (#26924385)

I don't know why you have had such issues with Ubuntu. It obviously does happen though. Funnily enough the rants you gave against Ubuntu/linux as a desktop could parallel my reasons for leaving Windows.

My point is that the anecdotes you provide can be leveled at MS Windows. I personally don't know why people think it is ready for the desktop and am appalled that people actually pay for it! I keep trying it every now and again and it is nearly there.

Re:I hope not (0, Redundant)

Ex-Linux-Fanboy (1311235) | more than 5 years ago | (#26925959)

Oh, I can rant about Windows too. My biggest issue with Windows is security; Micorsoft had no business having Windows XP run autorun.inf without thinking from removable writable media; this is one of the most common vectors for moving viruses from computer to computer.

Yes, it can be turned off but requires register voodoo so arcane even Microsoft's own security bulletins get it wrong at times.

I also don't like the way the system, over time takes longer and longer and longer to start up after logging in. My old system originally could start up right away after logging in; after a year and a half of bit rot, it took about three minutes after logging in before I could actually do any work in Windows XP.

So yes, Windows has a lot of issues too. And, yes, I think I will try out Mandrivia and Fedora Core and CentOS 5.3 when it comes out and maybe even Mepis. The nice thing about Linux is that there is choice, and maybe there is a desktop distribution that won't need a bunch of band-aids before being a desktop I can do my work on.

Re:I hope not (1)

lordtoran (1063300) | more than 5 years ago | (#26923215)

I waited until KDE 4.2 until making the switch on my main machine. I can say without reservation that this release is finally feature equivalent with 3.5.x. The network GUI is there, too.

BTW, I find *buntu to be very overrated and their KDE distribution lacks polish. On a second thought, it plain sucks. If you want to play with KDE, you are way better off with a KDE centric distro like Mandriva.

Re:I hope not (1)

Hucko (998827) | more than 5 years ago | (#26924437)

Heh, I installed Mandriva 2009.0 last night, and it defaulted to Gnome. Gah

It will be done. Mostly. (5, Informative)

iris-n (1276146) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919073)

I live in Brasil. This kind of things are announced from time to time, and the implementations varies. But they are mostly done. See for example the conversion of the government's computer to Linux. It was slow an irregular, but it was done, and it is working for some time know.

This is an issue that has been on media for quite some time, and it would be quite shameful if it failed again. I really think this time is for real.

The thing that really worries me is how these systems are going to be administrated. There aren't exactly a lot of Linux sysadmins here. If they aren't very careful about it (and they seldom are), we could end up with a huge expensive system badly misconfigured, that would just harm the kids and Linux's reputation.

Let me give you a real example. In my university, there are countless computer labs, and two of them run linux. One of them is run by be central administration of the exact sciences department. It is a bloody mess. They couldn't even get the user accounts working well, and its a heroic feat to get anything to compile there. The other lab, is run by the physics department. Mostly physics students that are hired to administrate it from time to time. Runs tighter than a duck's ass.

That said, it is really wonderful to get that mindshare, and for the first time kids won't be trained to think that windows is all that is.

Re:It will be done. Mostly. (1)

R2.0 (532027) | more than 5 years ago | (#26921085)

Runs tighter than a duck's ass.

How would you know...wait, don't answer that.

This guy has a dog (1)

mangu (126918) | more than 5 years ago | (#26921397)

Runs tighter than a duck's ass.

How would you know...wait, don't answer that.

I have no idea of who is this iris-n user, but obviously he or she has a black poodle [youtube.com] .

RIAA math. (3, Insightful)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919241)

350,000 virtual desktops is as meaningful as "The equivalent of 421 CD burners [theregister.co.uk] ." Nowhere in the article does it actually give meaningful numbers like the maximum number of concurrent users, or the actual amount of server hardware, or what sort of workstations will be hosting those virtual desktops.

This is 350,000 monitors and keyboards, and users (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26919575)

This isn't your classic "virtualization". It might be better termed as PC hardware sharing. Each PC can have 2-10 monitors, keyboards and users connected. So 350,000 kids **will** be able to work simultaneously. Presumably this translates into somewhere between 35,000 PCs and 175,000 actual PCs.

Re:RIAA math. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26919705)

Not "virtual desktops". They are low-end whitebox desktop PCs with a few (1-4) dual-/multi-head video cards and a few sets of USB HID and a proprietary multi-user X with logical desktop partitioning. This sounds like it would be around 4000-7000 PCs, each connected to 4-8 workstations, plus whatever authentication/storage/content servers are needed in the background.

Re:RIAA math. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26920013)

Oops. That would be 40,000-70,000 PCs.

So... (4, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919359)

This reminds me of the Apple ][ in school. Apple had a huge education discount back then. In hopes that kids will grow up with the Apple ][ and Macs and then will purchase them when they grow up. But the reverse effect happened. When they grew up they remembered all the problems they had when they were a kid and linked issues of the past with Apple (B&W screens (Most people I know still though well in the late 90's that all Macs were in Black and White), Incompatible floppy formats (Apple cant read IBM Disks, IBM Cant read Apple Disks), etc...) So using a PC seemed so much more modern, as the ones they used in schools as they were so budget conscious that they never updated their product line, still having Apple II well until the late 96 when they finally went with Windows 95 where the new PC's were so much better then the Apples.

This could have the same effect as well... Being a Virtual Desktop on a massive server over the Network it will seem slow and clunky to the kids especially once they are shown a modern Windows PC that their parents my have for work, or when they start to go to work. Also because Linux has much better security, when exposed to windows they will feel that it could do more.

So this could have the reverse effect on Linux Adoption.

Not how I remember it (4, Interesting)

Weasel Boy (13855) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919811)

The schools I attended from the late 80s through mid 90s had 5 to 10 Macs for every PC. In spite of this, there was usually a wait for Macs but never for PCs.

After we graduated, we found that the business world was 99% PCs, as it had been from day one, never having given Apple any serious consideration at all.

Most then went on to get the same kind of computer at home that they used at work because, as much of a pain as it is to use Windows, it's more of a pain to have to use both.

Then school boards started making noises, with some merit, that kids should learn in school what they'll be using in the real world. This caused many schools to switch to PCs.

This has nothing to do with technical merit and everything to do with first-mover advantage in the right market (personal computers for business).

Also, running virtual desktops over the network is not necessarily slow and clunky. Have you tried it? I've been doing it for years.

Re:Not how I remember it (2, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920493)

Also, running virtual desktops over the network is not necessarily slow and clunky. Have you tried it? I've been doing it for years.

I do it all the time. But still compared to a real one, they are still clunky. The fast enough to be not annoying and useful. But still it sometimes when you get those subtle animations It makes it that much nicer to work locally. Although it depends on the work you are doing. I wouldn't do anything graphic intensive over Virtual Desktops (Stuff that really encourages kids to learn) and leaves the boring office like apps left.

Re:Not how I remember it (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 5 years ago | (#26923501)

>I do it all the time. But still compared to a real one, they are still clunky.
>The fast enough to be not annoying and useful. But still it sometimes when you get those subtle animations
>It makes it that much nicer to work locally.

You are thinking of network thin clients, or just running X remotely over the network. The solution Brazil is using is a multiheaded Linux machine. There are just lots (10 sets) of keyboards, mice, and monitors connected directly to each single (local) server. So there is essentially zero lag, since they are all using "the console".

Re:Not how I remember it (1)

djchristensen (472087) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920727)

Most then went on to get the same kind of computer at home that they used at work because, as much of a pain as it is to use Windows, it's more of a pain to have to use both.

Not to mention the fact that, while Macs may have been cheap for schools to acquire, they were far from affordable for most people. That's where Apple's strategy was flawed.

Re:Not how I remember it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26922023)

The schools I attended (from the early '90s) had first C64s, then they switched to PCs. No Apple or other early fancy stuff, we had the friendly COCOM instead. Yepp, we were a happy communist country.

Anon.

Re:Not how I remember it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26923389)

After we graduated, we found that the business world was 99% PCs, as it had been from day one, ...

I always thought CP/M machines was the first microcomputers with a big user base in the business world. If it wasn't for WordStar, dBase, Turbo Pascal and other software being easily ported to the clone MS DOS, with its familiar C/PM interface, I dont think MS DOS would have ever been a hit.

Re:So... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26919827)

But, but, but all the Brazilian students will be encouraged to download Linux live CD's and see what it's really like on their more powerful home PC's.

I think you're right on. We could pray they might teach some interesting computer science classes with these environments that really shows off open software, but for the majority of students it will just be a locked down, strange platform running educational software. Yay.

Re:So... (1)

V!NCENT (1105021) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920377)

Better strange and actualy launching apps then waiting for it to boot and wanting to demolish the computer when Windows fails to properly multitask AGAIN (the horrors... never had any computer rage against everything besides Windows, only boredom when I couldn't get something to work on Linux)

There is no server required for this deployment (2, Informative)

xufem (940138) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919831)

Seems like "virtual" is perhaps the wrong way to label the posting and is being miss-used in the title, they are really multi-station or multi-seat desktops. Up to ten monitors and keyboards per PC. No Server Required. In fact many of the schools are in remote rural locations: http://www2.userful.com/company/linux-desktop-virtualization [userful.com]

Re:So... (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919875)

But the reverse effect happened.

I'd argue that you are wrong. I think the only thing that got Apple through the misery of the mid-to-late 90s was brand loyalty, in large part thanks to their aggressive education marketing.

Re:So... (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920531)

Most of the brand loyalist were not students during that time but professionals and graphic artists who didn't want to loose all their programs. Also the people who hated Microsofts dominance at the time.

Good insight (1)

emj (15659) | more than 5 years ago | (#26919945)

But it's not like most student care, most school computer systems sucks anyway, there just isn't enough money to administrate them. I rather the schools pay that small amount of money to Linux admins than Windows admins. Knowing Linux admins they are usually alot better at sharing info on the net than the Windows admin, even though there are now lots of good windows blogs.

As is stated above this isn't about VNC or remote X11, it's about shared physical machines. Not that it makes it less painfull, try playig a flash game on a shared machine (I haven't).

Re:Good insight (1)

V!NCENT (1105021) | more than 5 years ago | (#26920459)

Windows admins usualy have no clue whatsoever. System got a little messed up? Well instead of fixing a minor issue it's reformatting time!

Seriously... they only know how to set it up. App here, registery fix there (can't blame them for Windows being a complete suckup) is all they know. Any problem results in re-imaging :S

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26920933)

And this is actually happening here in Brazil: most non-geeks know Linux and OSS in general from a not-so-wonderful Brazilian distribution called Kurumin (used mostly on nationalistic grounds for its exaggerated use of the Brazilian flag) and from really crappy systems installed on low-cost PC and intended to be replaced as soon as possible by some pirate copy of Windows.

Re:So... (1)

hesaigo999ca (786966) | more than 5 years ago | (#26921073)

Not if they use ubuntu : )

Re:So... (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 5 years ago | (#26922091)

This reminds me of the Apple ][ in school. Apple had a huge education discount back then. In hopes that kids will grow up with the Apple ][ and Macs and then will purchase them when they grow up.

We had Apple ]['s at high school. They were fantastic machines. very easy to hack and develop for. The transition to the Mac turned me away from Apple. It was less open, more oriented to non-technical users.

Maybe they should have put Woz in charge ;)

Re:So... (1)

rantingkitten (938138) | more than 5 years ago | (#26923917)

I personally disagree, but I'll concede you make a point. However, your examples just don't make the point for you.

Virtual Desktop on a massive server over the Network it will seem slow and clunky to the kids especially once they are shown a modern Windows PC that their parents my have for work

Almost without exception, every Windows machine I've had to deal with, other than mine, has been a mind-bogglingly slow piece of garbage. That isn't necessarily because of Windows, but because of the way people load it up with forty thousand useless bits of trash hogging memory and processor cycles. The sales staff at my office are a fine example -- all I ever hear from them, day after day, is how slow their Core 2 Duo 1.8ghz machines are. Machines they really only need for web browsing, Outlook, Word & Excel, and maybe AIM. And every time I look, those machines really are slow, but I see it's because they have ungodly amounts of crap running behind the scenes. Stuff they probably don't know about, but that's the mindset of Windows users and the reality of using an OS that lets application installers puke anywhere they want.

I'm obsessive about keeping mine crap-free and keeping an eye on running processes, and anyone with a clue isn't asking me to look at their computers, so I admit that's something of a skewed set, but you can't tell me with a straight face that Windows in the hands of the average user is "fast" after a week or two.

(Yes, I realise that if you really wanted to, and knew how, you could make a Linux machine slow too, but the difference is that you'd have to go pretty damn far out of your way to do this -- whereas with Windows, the expected method of doing things is to download untrusted executables from unverified websites, run them, and Windows happily lets them do whatever they want as soon as you click 'OK', which everyone does.)

Also because Linux has much better security, when exposed to windows they will feel that it could do more.

Like what, get viruses? Install "Free Smilies" toolbars in the browser? Put useless icons, shortcuts, and systray helpers all over the place? Other than some modern games, which the kids presumably aren't running on school computers anyway, can you name something Windows can do which Linux cannot? Something someone would want to do?

Obligatory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26920515)

It's the year of Linux on the VIRTUAL desktop!

Brazil Sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26921251)

Stop talking about this stupid country. Brazil sucks!

NOT NOW NOT EVER. I AM COMING FOR YOU. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26921735)

This one going out to our KDE watching Brazillian peeps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yztcE1c_wAM (en espanol)

Pity the Brazilians (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26922927)

What did the poor kids of Brazil do to deserve this? Imagine all that innovation in tango, soccer, and carnivals lost to tinkering with KDE.

Why userful? Brazil succesfuly deployed their own. (1)

tensop (1232374) | more than 5 years ago | (#26923861)

I find it interesting that they've used Userful. Their own government, a military academy, group of universities and 40,000 desktops in Parana were already using an internally(ok, with outside sources too) developed method which proved to be 100% succesful.

Userful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26924167)

I looked into using Userful at the library where I used to work. The idea is you have 1 computer with 2-4+ video cards. Each you hook up a monitor to each video card, add keyboards and mice and all users sessions run off the one machine.

It comes with some nice, basic, session control and print sharing stuff. You can use USB sound and share CD burners and stuff. Because each user session has it's own video card you don't have any of the drawbacks of using a regular thin client. but then again it's only good for high density installs where groups of people sit close to each other.

From eweek it seems they have some kind of thin client offering now.

You guys should check them out.

who gives a fuck (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26924351)

just keep reading your comic books and sucking on linus' nutsack. dirty faggots.

Re:who gives a fuck (1)

Yfrwlf (998822) | more than 5 years ago | (#26926795)

You're probably just a troll, but it's Linux users. They give a fuck. Why? Because more Linux adoption means Linux is bigger and has more weight with software developers. This means more software for Linux users.

So, yeah, we care. You're probably a Winblowz user who doesn't. So, go suck Bill's nutsack, dirty faggot.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...