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Blood Frontier "Beta 1" Officially Released

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the up-and-coming dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 103

qreeves writes "Here it is, for the whole world to try out — the official Blood Frontier 'Beta 1' release. Compared to our last release, 'Alpha 2,' the game has taken a dramatic turn from the slow and clunky 'third-person' shooter it was. Based on feedback from the community (which we take very seriously — no idea is too big or too small) we refined, polished, and extended our gameplay to what we consider to be the most fun Free and Open Source First Person Shooter out there. Many may think it does not compare, visually, with some of the other shooters out there, but what we lack in art, we more than make up for in gameplay. So, give it a try, play against our new and improved Artificial Intelligence, which is giving even the most seasoned of players a run for their money now. Or, hop on our master server at play.bloodfrontier.com, where there is usually someone either playing, or watching from our IRC channel in #bloodfrontier on irc.freenode.net (yes, IRC chat support is built right in!). More information is available at our website."

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Graphics (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26994777)

Ugh, reminds me of UT99...on the PS2: jag city. I'll still try it, though. Hopefully it plays like UT99...on the PC, of course.

Re:Graphics (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26994845)

Hosea won top chef for being a giant douchebag and all you people can talk about are beta video games. Pffft,..where are your priorities!

Re:Graphics (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008705)

huh? I'm not sure I get the jag city comment. It seems like you are actually judging the game from the youtube video. Depends on your vid settings. Either that or you're running it on a really, really, really weak machine.

Front Page (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26994895)

Stop. Changing. It.
Clicking on the summary title used to take me to the summary. Now it minimizes. Unless, the summary has been minimized to begin with. In that case, clicking the title to restore it takes you to the summary. ... Why

More Information. (3, Insightful)

Zephiris (788562) | more than 5 years ago | (#26994909)

It's a good thing the website (allegedly) has more information, because the post contains absolutely no useful information if you've never heard of whatever this game is or is supposed to be.

Is it bad to ask how it got on Slashdot's front page, when it's basically a cut-and-paste advertisement, rather than descriptive and useful information?

Apparently, you're some kind of android, and have to go around killing zombies. ._.

Re:More Information. (2, Insightful)

Zephiris (788562) | more than 5 years ago | (#26994933)

Actually...it IS [bloodfrontier.com] a cut and paste advertisement (see first two paragraphs).

By geeks, for geeks. (1)

gknoy (899301) | more than 5 years ago | (#27000717)

Is it bad to ask how it got on Slashdot's front page, when it's basically a cut-and-paste advertisement, rather than descriptive and useful information?

Blood Frontier was mentioned a short while back on Slashdot (1 week? a month? I forget). But, I think the underlying question you are asking is, [b]"Why is this news for nerds?"[/b], and what differentiates it from the myriad piles of shovelware games that come out every month?

- It's open source.
- It leverages OpenGL and is intended to be multiplatform.
- It has an IRC client built-in? The only other game I've seen be that nerdy was Uplink. (I could have misread the summary on this fact.)
- Did I mention it's open source?
- The development team is small, and appears to be unfunded by a studio. We likes us some underdogs.
- The developers are actively soliciting us for advice.

For years we've had people talking about how easy it "should be" to make multiplatform games. With the exception of Id and (to an extent) Blizzard, few developers DO, though. These guys actually have put effort into doing it as well, and I think that is most certainly nerd-news-worthy. Great job, guys. I hope your game turns out to be awesome. (And now I'll have to actually go download and try it out, hehe.)

Re:By geeks, for geeks. (1)

Zephiris (788562) | more than 5 years ago | (#27001357)

No, the underlying question was, literally, "why is a cut-and-paste advertisement here?". Since Slashdot accepts advertising space, that's where it should go.

The advertisement also had no pertinent information about the game, its plot, gameplay elements, or anything else useful.

Responding to my shock at it being a blatant cut-and-paste advertisement, with no information, with yet another advertisement, with no further useful information, is not helpful, and quite frankly, is rude. Did you/they learn how to market from this ad (probably NSFW) [vimeo.com] ? THIS post [slashdot.org] has very little pertinent information either. It says it's a modified open source FPS. Even if someone saw that (I sure didn't), how many were likely to pass it off as a Blood source port (which I now understand does not actually exist), or something else for which the developers were too lazy to come up with words to DESCRIBE IT?

Personally, I care about what a game is about, what engine it's based on (mentioned in a post last month, not this one), what kind of single player features and depth of story it has, and moddability. There are a few pretty darn good games out there, a fair number of mediocre with a lot of problems, and a ton of real bombs that are more likely to make your PC beg for forgiveness for whatever it did wrong, than bring the player a good experience.

If there's a Linux port, that's icing, but obviously that can't improve the quality of the game. How is an utter lack of description helping anyone care about your game? How is an utter lack of description in the advertisement posted in response to the complaint helping anyone care about your game? How is advertising compulsively instead of responding Like An Human And Not A Bot to a legitimate point about what's going on, going to do anything other than piss off people? Seriously?

Re:By geeks, for geeks. (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 5 years ago | (#27005901)

Wikipedia says it's on a modified Cube2 engine. It doesn't seem to have many single player features (I think single player is just like multiplayer, but with AI bots). There doesn't seem to be much depth to the story (if any). As to modability? It's open-source. It is, by definition, infinitely modable.

Why is a cut-and-paste advertisement here?

Because the ad space is for paid ads? How many developers of free games will actually *pay* for ad space? A game like this *is* news to some brands of nerds. It's a relevant story. To point out the obvious...your rant isn't going to change the behavior of Slashdot posters, and you just wasted more time than you would have *finding the information yourself*.

Re:By geeks, for geeks. (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008773)

Getting the multiplayer and the AI up and running was actually the bulk of the work. Since we now have AI that works online and (hopefully) have balanced the gameplay fairly well, the next phase is actually not single player - it's more like online co-op.

Since we have a fairly complex AI up and running now with relatively little effect on the bandwidth, then a couple hundred monsters in a level with two or three players on the same team shouldn't take so long.

I won't promise cut scenes or FMV, but the next version should have a couple of mission maps - get from point A to point B to do X and then do Y sorts of things. They'll be packed with monsters, relatively simple, light on story, really just there to bring the co-op gameplay out of the larval stage.

I mean, I guess you could play by yourself with some bot-AI buddies and we could call it single player, but online co-op/PVM has been our goal all along. Multiplayer is much easier to do than single player, and since the components are re-used, it makes sense to finish the multiplayer first.

But we're an iterative process. We publish, get feedback, fix, add new stuff, debug, rinse and repeat. So we're putting the game up one part at a time, and the part that happens to have just been completed is Multi-player. We'll take opinions on this release from the community, alter things a bit to come in line with certain things that are common complaints. Then we move on to the next cycle.

Re:By geeks, for geeks. (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27019373)

I'll be honest and say I was trying to find the best couple of paragraphs from our release announcement to share. As we had already been mentioned on Slashdot previously I did not think it was wise to rehash information people would already have known - but I'll keep this in mind in the future. If you had clicked either of the links in the O.P. you would have found out more and I think you're just nitpicking for lack of anything better to do. I do appreciate your response though and will make a better effort to be more descriptive future endeavours.

Re:By geeks, for geeks. (1)

Zephiris (788562) | more than 5 years ago | (#27019541)

Only the top website had any useful information, and I did say I looked there. Neither post on Slashdot had any information whatsoever about what the game was, or about. All it mentions are arbitrary features/improvements to previous versions, not plot, setting, let alone any information about how it differs from the pack (aside from the features, which are admittedly paltry even compared to Icculus community improvements to Quake 3).

That must well be a lie, too, considering it was a simple copy and paste of the first two paragraphs, and then responded to with more brainless advertisement, and now this.

It's nice that you're so eager to throw insults after failing to read, though. I'm sure that makes you much different from other games [mdickie.com] . You even got the "we think everyone must read everything we publish from a long time ago because we're the best in the world and so very noteworthy" thing down. Congrats. Maybe Microsoft will buy you.

Re:By geeks, for geeks. (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27019615)

Geez, I wasn't even being rude, I merely said I thought you were nitpicking a little over an inconsequential detail and accepted the fact that I made mistake; what more do you want me to do? If I had to wager a guess it is you who are incapable/unwilling to read, then again judging by your attitude I don't see why I should care either.

Re:By geeks, for geeks. (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27002287)

- It has an IRC client built-in? The only other game I've seen be that nerdy was Uplink. (I could have misread the summary on this fact.)

I've posted this further down the thread, but Tribes had an IRC client built-in. Nobody used it. Tribes 2 had even more 'community features'. Nobody used them. Ever. That's not a "game feature" that's a "waste of implementation time that distracts from game features."

The fact that these guys aren't learning from Tribes' example (especially considering that Tribes is, by far, the best team-based FPS ever made) does not bode well for Blood Frontier.

Re:By geeks, for geeks. (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008803)

I'm glad you're sure you're right. But the fact is we are using it. We get feedback as players are playing and can provide instant tech support if they need it.

If the people who made tribes are too retarded to see what IRC could have been purposed to, that's not our problem.

Re:By geeks, for geeks. (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27011823)

Writing a FPS game without having played Tribes is like directing a movie without having seen Citizen Kane. Or painting a portrait when you have no clue what the Mona Lisa is. Calling the creators of Tribes retarded is an insult to the entire industry, just as calling Orson Welles retarded would be an insult to the film industry.

If you want to add chat, add chat. Don't add IRC; IRC is a usability nightmare, and you're missing out on tons of opportunities for integrating the chat into your game. Just off the top of my head, you could highlight what team the chatter is on, or highlight people chatting who have killed you a lot of times (nemesis) or that you've killed a lot of times (newbs). Make so people don't have to remember arcane slash commands to quit or change channels. Allow voice. Etc.

Re:By geeks, for geeks. (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27014331)

There's quite a bit of the tribes spirit alive and well in Blood Frontier. Try double jumping and impulsing. Basically, the direction you impulse in in the air is determined by the direction you are holding and the direction you are looking.

No, there aren't any big wide open maps. The average amount of players right now is varying between 6 and 8. Once the game picks up momentum, it'll be worth it to make big maps. Until then, it's not.

As far as arcane slash commands and whatnot, it's a beta - there's not much of a point to adding a real menu system until everything that's going to be in the menus can be planned for. An awful lot of things can be changed about the gameplay just playing with the vars menu.

Re:By geeks, for geeks. (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27024167)

There's quite a bit of the tribes spirit alive and well in Blood Frontier. Try double jumping and impulsing. Basically, the direction you impulse in in the air is determined by the direction you are holding and the direction you are looking.

Uh, Tribes doesn't have that, and I don't see how it's in the Tribes "spirit." I don't know what "impulsing" is, since there's no tutorial or help of any kind in the game, and I don't know what "the direction I am holding" is, but it doesn't sound like anything in Tribes. (Although it does sound kind of like the booster pack beacons in the Tribes Shifter v.1 mod.)

Tribes is famous for their quirky physics model that allowed "skiing" down angled surfaces. Later Tribes games added that as an established feature. And its use of jet packs.

Re:More Information. (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27002207)

The article can serve as a good demonstration of horrible web design, and why never to ever use Sourceforge.

For example, what's the point of this entire exercise if the download link doesn't work!? You click download, and it takes you to the exact same release notes you were at before. (And not just the Windows download, every platform's download link is broken.)

Well, I can't download the game, let me hit the "Help" link at the top of the page and see if it has instructions for how to make the download link work...

Configure download page

The download page is a landing page for users who click on the green Download button on the project summary page. It has the ability to autodetect end-user platform details and help direct the user to the proper files for their platform (Windows, Linux and Mac OS are auto-detected and directed to the proper page, other OS users can manually select an alternate landing page if created).

To update the download page: ...

That's very insightful, shitty website, but that's help for the person making the website (apparently), not for the visitor. Hell, why does the visitor even see this link? I'm not logged in to anything.

Blood Frontier people, just a thought here, why don't you make the goddamned website work before wasting all our time with this Slashdot article? For a short while, you actually had me talked into downloading the game-- then pissed that opportunity down the drain by making it impossible to download. Congratulations.

(That said, I don't necessarily blame you for anything except choosing Sourceforge as a host. I've yet to have a single good experience at Sourceforge, between their buggy-ass CMS, their impossibly-vague error messages, their shit-tastic bug reporter, it's deeply-engrained anti-user attitudes... why anybody uses them for anything is a mystery to me. It's likely you have it all set up correctly, and Sourceforge is just fucking it up per usual.)

Re:More Information. (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27002247)

Oh, another thought: once the download link works, you might want to actually put up some screenshots that are:
1) Of the most current version, instead of the Alpha version
2) Are bigger than postage-stamp size.

This: http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=181100 [sourceforge.net] simply ain't gonna pull in the players.

Re:More Information. (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27002409)

Oh, hey, I found it. To download the game, instead of choosing "Download -> Windows" from the website's menu (you foolish person!*), you have to actually select "Browse All Packages". You then get to a scary-looking table of... things, where you need to click "Blood Frontier Beta 1". Then you get to another scary-looking table with two "i386" downloads and one "Mac Universal" download. I can only assume one of the "i386" downloads is the Windows version, but even as an advanced computer user I have no clue which one.

Ah, but if you look closely at the table, it lists the filenames too... and all of the filenames list an OS *except* the last one, which by process of elimination (and because it uses the word "setup" and is an ".exe" file), must be the game. Good luck trying to get anybody without decades of computer experience to successfully download the damned game.

I particularly love the unlabelled "size" column. 267845779 whats? Bytes? MB? Football fields? Who knows! Oh, and obviously "architecture" is such a more important field than "OS" that you can exclude OS altogether. Is my Intel Core 2 Duo computer a "i386?" I'm a complete computer nerd, and I neither know nor care.

* To paraphrase a Microsoft article a few days ago: "We didn't anticipate users using the Download page to download software."

Just a warning. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26995003)

The community behind this game and Sauerbraten is one of the most unfriendly around. They have serious issues with new people, it's like a giant inbred mongoloid family over there.

Re:Just a warning. (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#26996493)

Mind giving us an real world example, or are you just spreading negativity?

Re:Just a warning. (2, Interesting)

qqtortqq (521284) | more than 5 years ago | (#26996537)

While I don't know about the sauerbraten community, I have hung out with the dev team of Blood Frontier for a long time not only for the up to date info on the game, but for the comradery and great chats we have. There is a real community surrounding this game, and I feel that your statement couldn't be further from the truth.

here we are again (3, Insightful)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#26995299)

We do take user feedback really seriously - so feel free to make suggestions you've always wanted to see in an FPS. This version is much more bug free than the last release, and we now have MAC BINARIES available for download as well as the usual tasty Win/Lin flavors.

Re:here we are again (1, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#26996837)

We do take user feedback really seriously - so feel free to make suggestions you've always wanted to see in an FPS.

How about a webpage that works without javascript? I can't even download your game without potentially compromising the security of my browser. I don't know you from adam, and I'm only even willing to try your game because I'm having a less-paranoid day.

Websites which require javascript and then don't actually have any features which require javascript were obviously made by idiots, assholes, or the unscrupulous. Which one is your webmaster?

Re:here we are again (1)

ndazza (1395385) | more than 5 years ago | (#26997315)

I agree the website has some rough edges. Insulting the devs won't fix that though :)

Re:here we are again (2, Informative)

c0rdawg (1485613) | more than 5 years ago | (#26998493)

https://sourceforge.net/project/platformdownload.php?group_id=198419 [sourceforge.net] There you go, a download without javascript. And I'm sorry about your paranoia with javascript, that will probably become a lot more difficult as more and more websites move to "web 2.0" and fill themselves with javascript/ajax...

Re:here we are again (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27000025)

Yeah, like this very website. Slashdot uses JS/AJAX to thread comments. It's a strange remark to make in a Web 2.0 world, and totally off topic.

Re:here we are again (1)

quadrox (1174915) | more than 5 years ago | (#27001081)

There is a difference between using JavaScript to enable spiffy features and having a website that won't even show the main content unless you enable JavaScript. As such the GPs opinion remains completely valid, if somewhat offensive.

And even on slashdot, I expect I can turn off JavaScript and mostly everything will keep working, only somewhat less convenient. In fact I will try that out in a moment.

Re:here we are again (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27019401)

Yep, I took the feedback and reworked the website to use redirects instead - this gets around the SF.net broken-ness for now. Thanks for the useful and friendly feedback.

Re:here we are again (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#26999983)

The webmaster is me; a guy who works 18 hours a day doing everything from community management, to coding, to improvising the website. I'm not a web developer, but when nobody else is putting up their hand to make a better one I had to make use of what was there.

Good luck using the internet in the future, you're gonna need it.

Re:here we are again (2, Interesting)

quadrox (1174915) | more than 5 years ago | (#27001041)

The GPs insults notwithstanding, he does have a point. A web page as simple as yours does not require JavaScript. There are times when I decide that I just won't unblock a given website because it's not worth the hazzle and security risk. This is especially true if I'm not even allowed to get even a glimpse of the websites content before turning on JavaScript.

Of course, people like me and the GP are probably a minority, but still...

I would appreciate an explanation of how your site came about to require JavaScript, but I don't want to waste your time if you are as busy as you say you are.

Re:here we are again (3, Informative)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27001215)

Quite happily, I certainly don't mind responding to an intelligent question. A quick glance of the source code should even fill you in.

I have had to bring a bunch of non-contiguous Sourceforge apps into a consistent interface, something which they still keep failing to do adequately. So I use a bit of javascript to dynamically resize the frame based on the browser's dimensions and provide a bit of feedback as to what is happening in the blurb bar.

The other part I guess would be Piwik, but it has a non-script fallback so should be less of an issue if you have it turned off. None of this is any worse than 99% of websites already out there, and in my opinion it's quite tame, and as I said, it is improvised and someone with more knowledge on how to make a consistent interface with something as clunky as Sourceforge is welcome to come talk to me. Just for the record, no, I am not looking for answers like "don't use Sourceforge", last time I tried that Slashdot killed my VM and cost my friends a crapload of money.

Re:here we are again (1)

quadrox (1174915) | more than 5 years ago | (#27002059)

... A quick glance of the source code should even fill you in.

This is slashdot. Trying to find out answers for yourself is forbidden ;) Anyway, thank you for the explanation, I had considered that sourceforge could be a problem, I just didn't see how.

Re:here we are again (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 5 years ago | (#27005983)

Seriously, how likely is >open source website x to infect your computer with something? Is it really worth the hassle to be so paranoid all the time?

Re:here we are again (1)

quadrox (1174915) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008869)

Open source website x is probably not very likely to infect my computer, especially as I run linux instead of windows. Nevertheless, a certain risk exists even then.

The main reason for being so 'paranoid' however is simply the experience of a webbrowser WITHOUT NoScript. Annoying popups and other malicious behavior more or less all the time. No thank you.

In case you didn't know, NoScript blocks ANYTHING by default, and it is up to you to decide whether you want to let the scripts on some website work or not. On todays internet that is not paranoia but common sense. And sometimes, as I pointed out in my previous post, it just won't be worth the hazzle to unblock a site. Again, this is not so much about paranoia, but about not being inconvenienced by a ton of scripts, flash and java that I didn't ask for.

Re:here we are again (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27010657)

The webmaster is me; a guy who works 18 hours a day doing everything from community management, to coding, to improvising the website. I'm not a web developer, but when nobody else is putting up their hand to make a better one I had to make use of what was there.

By "make use of what was there" you mean "create a website that requires Javascript for no reason.

You say you are using Javascript to resize a frame. What is stopping you from specifying a reasonable size for the frame to begin with?

What most people do in this situation is don't try to merge sites that don't want to be merge. Sourceforge is ungainly to say the least. Creating a less-usable website doesn't help anyone.

When I am trying to spend some money and get to a website that requires Javascript, I go looking for another site. One which degrades gracefully.

The needlessly obfuscated website suggests to me that the game will be the same way, if you are working on the game, too.

Good luck using the internet in the future, you're gonna need it.

I vote with my dollars and my feet. Or perhaps my effort. I contribute where it is made reasonable to do so. I won't contribute to a project which is distributed basically wrongheadedly. I won't buy from newegg because I have to enable more than just newegg.com and I don't trust them. (It's gotten too hard to shop on their site anyway, if you don't know what you want their site is pretty useless.) Their webmaster would probably tell you that it is necessary, but I can find a more full-featured site that degrades gracefully if you don't permit CSS, let alone Javascript. What you should have done was aim lower - within your skill set - and create a website that you don't have to steal tricks you don't understand to implement.

Re:here we are again (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27019249)

Well, I love how it is assumed that I "stole tricks" to create the website. While I may not be officially a web developer, I was fully aware of both the XHTML and CSS standards required. The point is moot anyway, had you double checked I took the feedback seriously and redesigned the website accordingly. Stop trolling and find something more useful to do, like - y'know - making something constructive?

Re:here we are again (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27001625)

You are probably correct. But you're awfully damned rude, so don't be surprised if you get ignored or resented.

Re:here we are again (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 5 years ago | (#27005943)

You aren't paranoid. They really are out to get you. Watch your back, or the Javascript monsters will eat your brains.

No no no no (2, Insightful)

RenHoek (101570) | more than 5 years ago | (#26995305)

I would love a nice open source FPS, but why do they all look like Quake 1? Have you seen recent shooters? I don't want the whole "a million shades of brown" anymore.

Re:No no no no (1)

qqtortqq (521284) | more than 5 years ago | (#26995509)

You are right! It needs a mario-kart themed level!

Re:No no no no (1)

wisty (1335733) | more than 5 years ago | (#26995877)

A million shades of brown? So it's the Ubuntu of FPS?

Re:No no no no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26996103)

The textures and level designs look very amateurish, more so than the Quake games.

Re:No no no no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26997771)

Yeah and everyone knows how amature Id Software is.

Re:No no no no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26999009)

id Software is great for making game engines, not for making games.

I can and have done a better job making levels for games than anyone at id.

Re:No no no no (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008671)

Really? The level editor is dead simple and well documented. It takes practically any image format and is easily configured in text files. Mapmodels can be dumped out in MD5 with a bone and textured in what you please.

If you can make a better map, show me. Teach me something. Give me constructive criticism. But since all you've done is bitch, I'm betting that you couldn't make a Lego house without screwing it up.

And also, make all your textures and mapmodels/prefabs FROM SCRATCH WITH NORMAL AND SPEC MAPPING. No cheating.

Re:No no no no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27016241)

Only an amateur would say something like "make all your textures and mapmodels/prefabs FROM SCRATCH WITH NORMAL AND SPEC MAPPING". Of course I make everything from scratch, that is a given. You say it as though it's difficult to do. Then again, it probably is difficult for you to do considering the low quality of your work. I don't know any other way to put it so I'll just say it, your mapping skills are shit, son.

Try looking around filefront some time. I've had a number of maps featured there that have been enjoyed by thousands of people. If you are a serious mapper or gamer, you have already heard of me.

Re:No no no no (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27019435)

Bit hard when you hide behind the "Anonymous Coward", we have no idea who you are or proof you made anything other than a trolling post on Slashdot. Ok, so you've made a few maps? We've had to make an entire game from nothing. I have this motto; "Deeds not words" - which basically means do something and stop talking about it.

Re:No no no no (0, Troll)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#26996343)

Oh of course not, we all know the norm now is to have pink levels with purple polka-dots. Maybe you'd more enjoy World of Padman, assuming you tried the game at all.

Re:No no no no (2, Interesting)

zaf (5944) | more than 5 years ago | (#26998645)

Colors aside, why do they all have to play like Quake 1? How about some fresh ideas like we've seen from Valve recently.

It looks like you guys have done good with getting the engine running, now bring out some creativity beyond "futuristic shotgun, futuristic rocket launcher, futuristic plasma gun" and put some interesting mechanics that really give people a different experience.

Re:No no no no (0, Troll)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#26999923)

You obviously didn't play the game either. Come back when you've actually bothered to look, because the game mechanics are totally different; and you know what they say about ASSumptions.

Re:No no no no (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008685)

If it plays like quake, it's because you're playing it that way. If there were people moving like ninjas and you couldn't seem to hit anything, then you're doing it wrong.

Re:No no no no (1)

Xentalion (1005477) | more than 5 years ago | (#27013097)

I don't remember Quake one having realistic water, but I haven't played it in a while.
Besides, isn't the gameplay the most important part of a game?

Crappy Site (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26995739)

Loading Application..

To view their wiki, or gallery?
I've already lost interest.

Re:Crappy Site (2, Informative)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#26996509)

You're welcome to stop being an Anonymous Coward and help make a better one. We moved everything over to SourceForge after we get knocked off the internet last time, as a result we have had to improvise.

Re:Crappy Site (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26997623)

And you're welcome to not have a user base with that attitude.

Re:Crappy Site (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 5 years ago | (#27006023)

They're putting in their spare time to work on this stuff, and you complain. It's a valid point. If their efforts are insufficient to their needs, why don't *you* fix it?

Good fun (2, Interesting)

ndazza (1395385) | more than 5 years ago | (#26996497)

I've had a lot of fun playing this since the last slashdot story, if you're an open source FPS player you really should check it out. (If you're a "regular" FPS player, one more game on your PC won't hurt either. Hey, it's free!)

Re:Good fun (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26998711)

I tried this after the last slashdot post. I didn't like it, it was quite generic. I'd rather play quake instead.

My Challenge to Slashdot Users (2, Insightful)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27000285)

I've noticed quite alot of misinformation and negativity from the users of Slashdot, and I must say that I am quite disappointed by it. Geeks are supposed to be intelligent people with thought out answers and responses, and it seems to me everyone who comments either did not bother to try the game at all, or find some other off-topic fault to complain about.

I have worked in Open Source for a decade now, and this is the reason most developers become jaded and rude to their users - nothing else. You all want Free and Open Source Software, but where is your empathy? What do we get out of it other than an earful of crap? Please wake up to yourselves and do something to benefit the community for once, rather than idly making rude remarks to inflate your own sense of ego.

My challenge to you all is this: Actually play the game and come up with some constructive criticism. Otherwise, please just ignore this post and move along.

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

DeskLazer (699263) | more than 5 years ago | (#27000885)

I'm willing to try it. but based on your comment replies to others, it sounds like you don't like the feedback of 'DO NOT WANT' or 'rather play quake.'

this is SLASHDOT after all. no one is going to play nice just because you're giving them something free.

make a free windows game. people will ask 'does it run on linux?' make it for linux. one person will ask if it runs on macs (without bootcamp/windows). make it run on all 3 platforms. people will complain about level design. include a level designer. people will complain that the interface is too clunky or not deep enough, of course, without paying a dime or contributing to the code.

this is what you have to look forward to. I'm all for trying new things [and I will try your game this weekend], but you have to expect that you'll get backlash just because people want something to complain about, even if it's free. that just makes me sad.

I do hope that it ends up working out for you, although I do have to agree, based on the screenshots, why does everyone want to be dark and gray/brown in games. what happened to colors? it doesn't have to look like far cry or anything, but can we get some more interesting colors and textures in games these days? looking forward to the gameplay though, let's see if your souped-up AI does more than just cheat, like in other games...

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27001075)

Thank you for your intelligent response, it is a breath of fresh air. I am well aware of the types of behaviour people exhibit, and to be honest it is all water off a ducks back. The type of people who make rude and off-topic comments are not the type of people I care to work with, I've just simply made it a point to try and steer the conversation toward something more constructive (and failed, but eh). As I said, I've been doing this a long time and know full well what to expect. The *good* people who don't comment usually come directly to us and give us great feedback, and they truly are the kind of users we want participating - it just means I probably won't monitor Slashdot comments in future because they seem mostly, well, nasty or ill-thought.

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

DeskLazer (699263) | more than 5 years ago | (#27005341)

well, I wasn't trying to make it seem like all /.ers are bad people. just take everything with a grain of salt and expect complaints about things that don't even matter.

also realize lots of people don't RTFA. imagine them giving you hints on what to do with your game before they even go to your website ;)

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

DeskLazer (699263) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030231)

Okay, here are my real takes.

1. The servers were down, so I had to create a localhost match. No problem, it's still early in the morning on a Sunday.
2. For some reason, I get 14 FPS even though I'm running a dualcore computer with a 512 MB videocard. Okay, but at least I can play the game. I try turning off basically everything and adjusting the res. I wish it didn't require a re-start of the game to change res. Quake 3 Arena and UT handled this well by popping out to desktop then launching back in-game to adjust the res. I would recommend this. I know you said its a libs issue.
3. I agree with all comments that the weapons are well, lacking. I added three bots in a FFA style match. No one died. I played for about 10-15 minutes and NO ONE DIED. We were all in the same area, taking shots at each other, and nothing was happening except a lot of gunfire and not much else.
4. I also agree that item pickup shouldn't be done with the action key. You have to STOP movement to do so otherwise you run over the weapon. If you want to make it like Halo and have the person pick and choose what they want, but only one or two weapons, that's fine. But if you allow people to carry 5 weapons, seriously, why go for that "realistic feel" when you've already made it unrealistic because you can carry up to 5 guns on your back anyhow?
5. The bots: Well, they act like humans, if you mean bunnyhopping humans who don't know what they're doing. They jump a lot, making it hard to hit them. Okay. But they also miss shooting me. Very noob-like, basically like when an expert player tells a noob 'hey, you should jump to evade fire' but then the noob does it ALL THE TIME. Which goes back to the earlier point, make the weapons a little bit more effective.
6. What's with the dark doorways? They basically lead nowhere [I'm talking about the overseer map, for example].
7. Where was the damn flamethrower? Do the weapons not respawn or something? Or did the bot just start with it?
8. The sound on that starting blaster is ANNOYING. That's just a personal gripe, maybe the whole key is to want to get a different weapon. The chaingun sounds better.

that being said, I can understand a lot of the comments here better now. I do hope you guys can fix these bugs, because eventually, it might be a fun game to play. but for right now, I think I'll keep my mind occupied with something else.

if it doesn't kill your artistic vision for the game, I will go back to my previous comment and say, use some brighter colors! if the future is gonna all be gray and black colors, I am not gonna want to live in it :)

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030661)

1. The servers were not down, there were four people playing on the master server when you joined the IRC channel. I don't appreciate misinformation.
2. As far as I know this is an OpenGL context problem on Windows, destroying said context destroys all OpenGL data, so you'd need to reload everything anyway. Then again, I didn't write the engine or the libraries it uses.
3. You are playing in a non-DM mode, you can't do damage in Editing/Lobby/etc.
4. Hold the key as you run over the weapon, you'll pick it up and you don't need to stop moving. You CAN only pick up two weapons, it is just you do not drop your super weapon (grenade) or spawn weapon (plasma).
5. Default bot settings are easy so people don't get frustrated easily, increase their skill, it's right there on the second tab where you select your map.
6. Overseer is a work in progress, the doors will eventually lead to tutorials. Overseer is NOT a Deathmatch map, it is for the Lobby when you start up the game (think Quake's start level) -- wait -- don't the doors say "This area is under construction" when you're in the lobby, or was I tripping when I took the time to add that?
7. You obviously didn't read any of the errata at all or speak to anybody who has already played it; items don't respawn until the person who picked it up drops it - item domination replaces running around the level in routes to dominate pickups.
8. You're the only one to complain about the sound it makes.

While I appreciate the fact you've taken the time to download and try it, it seems like you've wasted your own and my time. You've either made false statements or dismissed a ton of things simply because you didn't take the time to examine it, and that just annoys me. Do I have to write everything in capital letters all over the levels? How many other Multiplayer FPS games explain every detail? In most cases you learn how to play by playing it - properly.

Realise you're speaking in a public forum and statements you make reflect on the long term view of the project - I'd almost call it defamation. Oh well, at least you're not as bad as the trolls here, but you gave it about the same chance as they did. I'm not looking for feedback from people who play it for ten seconds (exaggeration) and can't accept the rough edges of a BETA (because we all know from Google that Beta's are finished products, right?).

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030759)

And I've just realised that the only people who leave comments on the Slashdot article are the ones who haven't given it a chance. From now on I will not be responding to Slashdot comments, if you want to talk to us, you can use our proper support mechanisms (IRC and Forums) and be held properly accountable for your words (or be educated by someone instead of remaining ignorant).

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008435)

Don't forget red and blue :) Seriously though, I will try to be more colorful. I don't mean for everything to turn out brown, but much of the time it's the trade off for moody lighting.

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27002825)

The download link on the website doesn't work. It took me 15 minutes to find how to download the game, and that's only because I was deconstructing how terrible the website actually was (so I could talk about it to some co-workers.)

In short, what did you expect would happen? You couldn't be bothered to test whether your own website works, and it's *our* fault you're seeing negativity.

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27007683)

You're still not providing any useful feedback. I can only test it on so many configurations considering my limited access to everything under the sun.

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008305)

Dude.

The download link, on the website, does not work. The website. It's HTML, it's the same for every platform. It doesn't work. Does. Not. Work. Clicking it does not begin a download, instead it takes you to the release notes. Every platform's download link does this. If you think the download link works, you're living in some bizarre fantasy-land full of flowers and daisies. How is that not useful feedback?

It took me something like 15 minutes to figure out how to download the game. But since I did, WTF, here we go:

1) Is the name of the game "Blood Frontier" or "BloodFrontier?" The website has it one way, my Windows Start menu the other way.
2) On first startup, the game sets the resolution of my main monitor to ... something, and also blanks out my secondary monitor for no reason whatsoever. Despite changing the resolution, it still runs in a letterbox, which prompts me to ask what the hell the point of changing the resolution was. Kudos on it correctly handling Alt-Tab, however.
3) When I'm typing in my username, and I press shift to capitalize a letter, my "character" seems to duck down, even though I'm typing in a username and not actually playing... WTF?
4) When I'm done typing in my username, nothing happens? I think I'm in a game, but there's no other players, and no way of figuring out how to get to the menu. (Turns out escape, or walking up to the bank of monitors, does it. If I were new to the world of FPS games, I'd have no idea either of those two options existed.)
5) The font used for menus is almost unreadable on my monitor. It has some kind of shadow effect, and it's really tiny.
6) Turning off "fullscreen" in options/display does nothing. (Although the option stays unchecked.)
7) Changing the game resolution in options/"gfx" does nothing. The resolution you check doesn't even stay checked.
8) Some quality settings are in "gfx", others are in "display" with no apparent rhyme or reason.
9) You can't simply set all options to "slow and pretty" by clicking the text that says "slow and pretty" in options/"gfx". That would be too easy. So would auto-detecting what my hardware is capable of, apparently, since it's running at 120+ FPS in the default configuration.
10) The radio buttons in options/mouse are backwards. For some reason, the COLUMNS are labeled "fixed, panned, free" yet the rows are labeled as the specific mouse mode you're setting. Actually, this might make sense if it were presented as a single table of radios instead of three columns next to each other, but as-is it's pretty unusable. (You also have to ask: how many people will change this? Seriously? I doubt it's enough to warrant the code to support it.)
11) While speaking about options, the tabs at the top don't give any sort of mouse "grace period", therefore it takes very deliberate mouse movements (vertically straight down, then left) to interact with the options. If you move your mouse quickly, like a normal rational person does, the tab will be accidentally changed before your mouse pointer reaches the option you want to change.
12) Also, there's no tooltip telling me what the hell some of these options are. "Absolute mouse?" "Mumble positional audio?" "stencil bits?" ... uh, WTF are those? "Yes, please, I'd like the positional audio to mumble. I hate it when it's too clear."
13) Autoexec.cfg? Seriously? Did I go back in time 15 years to when this crap was acceptable?
14) To start a bot match, I go to "Game" and click "Vote?" WTF.
15) And why is there a "mystery map" in the middle of the maps list? Does this mean randomly select a map? If so, why is there a text field next to it? What do I type in the text field? "Yes, I would like a random map please!" was my guess, but it did nothing.
16) The "Get online support" option under "Help" does... some... confusing... thing. I suppose this is the IRC interface? (It's hard to tell because I can't read the damned font.)
17) It says "if you do not agree please part now." Part what? Do you mean DEpart? Also, how do I do that? There's no X button or any visible way of closing the IRC window. (Although escape seemed to work. For all I know, that just hides it and doesn't exit it.) ... Oh wait, I'm still seeing people's chat, presumably in IRC, so I guess "escape" didn't exit it.
18) My game is still in the intro/menu level, and the message says: "Please Wait, Ready to respawn." Ok, but how? Left-clicking does nothing. Right-clicking does nothing. Space does nothing. What would be the point of respawning in an empty map anyway, except to walk up to the monitors to see the menu again? (Also, how did I die on an empty map with no enemies?)
19) While I'm in observer mode, I can pass the camera though solid objects. (Possibly intentional, but it looks like crap on screen because of the clipping.) If you're going to let the camera pass through solid objects, follow the example of most games and make the object translucent proportionally to how close the camera is, then entirely transparent when the camera "enters" it.
20) While I'm in observer mode, the menu no longer opens when I bring the camera close to the monitors.
21) Opening the "Servers" menu doesn't ping the servers by default. What the hell else are people going to open this menu for? It should just do it.
22) Of the 5 servers running, one is me. One is labelled "v156 != v157" which I assume is a version mismatch error, but who the hell knows. 3 are empty.
23) 1 player. The server has 1 player, and that's it. And it's me. Hard to play-test a multiplayer game when there's nobody playing! Shadowrun has a more active community, and it sucks.
24) So I join an empty server, other than my own. There's a map marker named "base" which is off-screen, apparently. No matter which way I turn, it's always stuck against the top or bottom of the screen.
25) Grenades fly in a straight line, apparently not subject to gravity.

There, 25 pieces of feedback, and I didn't even play against an actual human. Happy?

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

ndazza (1395385) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008483)

Dude.

The download link, on the website, does not work. The website. It's HTML, it's the same for every platform. It doesn't work. Does. Not. Work. Clicking it does not begin a download, instead it takes you to the release notes. Every platform's download link does this. If you think the download link works, you're living in some bizarre fantasy-land full of flowers and daisies. How is that not useful feedback?

Scroll down... :)

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27011401)

Oh wow. It's like 18 miles below the fold. That doesn't change my opinion of "does not work", since there's no way a normal human being would scroll down that far after hitting the link. Thanks, though.

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27009313)

14:17.19 * Blakeyrat (n=Blakeyra@pool-71-113-17-244.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) joined
14:24.31 [+bfbot] Blakeyrat has joined the game
14:28.36 [+bfbot] Blakeyrat has left the game
14:28.36 * Blakeyrat (n=Blakeyra@pool-71-113-17-244.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) quit ("Blood Frontier, It's bloody fun! www.bloodfrontier.com")

Yeah buddy, you really gave it a chance.. So no, I am not happy; your feedback is done with malice and spite. While you make valid points; for a beta you are just nitpicking. You made no attempt to talk to us or work out how to do things, you're just too self involved to care. I'm not afraid to say these truthful things either; people like you, we do not need - people who are helpful; they're more than welcome.

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27011083)

Wait, I played, according to your IRC log, 11 minutes on an EMPTY SERVER (a server with NO OTHER PLAYERS), and I didn't give it a chance? What's the typical user behavior when joining empty servers? Sticking around for an hour? Three hours? What's the cutoff for me having "given it a chance?"

Look, I'm trying to test a multiplayer game, there's no players. It took me 15 minutes to figure out how to download the damned thing. As pointed out in the issues I brought up, which you apparently don't care about despite (most of them) being valid bugs, the usability of your game is abysmal. Arguably the two most important functions for a game (changing to Windowed mode, and changing the game resolution) simply *do not work.* The menu text is impossible to read. Maybe I'm an old fogey with bad eyes, but it's impossible to read.

We're talking about a game that is, supposedly, in beta and you don't even know what the NAME of it is. ("BloodFrontier?" or "Blood Frontier?")

I think I've jumped through about a dozen more hoops than anybody should EVER have to jump through to test a beta product, and you just come back with: "oh well you only played for 11 minutes." Dude, 11 minutes of this shitty game with no players is an ETERNITY.

Oh well, just like every experience with open source, it just encourages me to never, ever help open source programmers. You simply do not give a crap about the quality of your product. Someone points out tons of low-hanging-fruit bugs, and you just reply with "oh well you weren't serious." Screw that.

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27019267)

While I may have responded in kind, I took your feedback seriously and fixed both the website and a myriad of the bugs you submit into upstream SVN. My point is that you are a troll, you have no empathy or care beyond your own sad little life, and you're exactly the type of person that drives open source developers to become jaded and rude. Thus ends the conversation, I won't waste another moment of effort on an ungrateful person such as yourself.

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27019939)

If you need a troll on Slashdot to point out errors like, "the website doesn't work" or "changing resolution in the game doesn't work," I think you might be in the wrong business.

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

Xentalion (1005477) | more than 5 years ago | (#27013455)

I can't remember where I first heard about BloodFrontier. (it may have been slashdot, not certain)
So far, I've been really enjoying it. It doesn't work as well on my slower, less powerful laptop, as Quake 3 does, but I expected that. I suppose turning off the shaders and stuff would speed it up.
On my desktop it's been really nice to play. My only complaints were that the bots were to easy to beat (and you've fixed that), that there isn't some sort of melee attack, and that if you got to close to someone you couldn't hit them (don't know it this's been fixed)
I really like your new movement code (compared to Cube/Cube 2's movement code it's a huge improvement). The only game that I've played which is as fast or faster than Bloodfrontier is Warsow.


A couple of suggestions:
  • Add a melee attack
  • Instead of androids, could the character be a cyborg maybe? Androids don't really bleed.
  • Add a box that comes up, telling you who you just fragged, like in Quake 3
  • Awards, like in Q3
  • Instead of text for things like Headshot, Slaughter, and Carnage, have icons
  • i can has quad damage?
  • If you decide to have a flashlight for the game, for gods sake attach it to the gun!

Looking forward to the next release!

Re:My Challenge to Slashdot Users (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27019337)

Wow, thanks for the awesome feedback! In alot of cases I totally agree with you :o) About "android vs. cyborg" - I asked the same question to the other developers when I read it, they didn't see the issue, at least now I have some backup, hah.

We've been toying with the idea of a melee attack, but for the moment we have tried to keep a nice balanced set of projectile weapons to get the multiplayer up and running smoothly - this will definitely become more of an issue as we start writing the (singleplayer) campaigns. We just haven't decided how we're gonna do this nicely yet, so we've labeled it "for the future".

HUD frag info, awards, flashlight, etc. Again, for the future; this is definitely something we want to pursue as it makes the game more competitive and fun - and that is what this is all about. Quad damage is a mixed bag, the weapons are already very deadly and we have been trying very hard to avoid the whole "pickup powerup" scheme - do expect to see single shot super weapons in the future though in the same vain as the grenades - which should make you feel nice and powerful :o)

I really appreciate your kind and helpful responses, it is a breath of fresh air. I hope you continue to enjoy Blood Frontier as much as we love making it, you're the type of person that has inspired us to keep going for as long as we have.

Not like quake... (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27000971)

Tips:R to reload, E to pick up weapons(unlimited ammo in most cases), Q to switch to frags, spacebar twice to do ninja stuff, shift to crouch

Re:Not like quake... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27002385)

Ok so they changed the bindings on a few keys. What else?

Re:Not like quake... (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008573)

Double jumping, evasion, and the complete obliteration of crap collection. Since you've got unlimited ammunition, and there is no armor/quad/health power up, you have to really focus on the gunplay and evasion by double jumping/impulsing. The game then becomes more of a question of skill than of memorizing the layout and timing of crap on a map.

I'm not a Quake fan. I actually hate that sort of gameplay, because someone who runs a good path has a huge advantage over every other player, even if they can't dodge and couldn't hit the side of an aircraft carrier.

Get away from combat long enough and you even regenerate your own health - negating the need for first aid packs and health boosts and all that garbage. By making the player self-sufficient(unlimited ammo and regenerating health) the focus is shifted significantly.

Strategically, the weapons that exist in a map do not respawn until the person who picked it up drops it, and it stays dropped for awhile. That means that players can "raid" into enemy territory to take weapons laying around, and thus deny them to the enemy.

Anyways - obviously you're not interested. Some people will pass up every good thing that comes their way because they are so damned impressed with how jaded they are. If that's how you choose to trickle your mortal life away, be my guest. Sounds like a lousy, depressing philosophy to me.

What do you think of the bots? (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27001567)

Are the computer AI bots too hard? Are they too easy? Speak out guys! You actually have a chance to affect a game's development for once!

Re:What do you think of the bots? (1)

mangobrain (877223) | more than 5 years ago | (#27003765)

I played for a small amount of time today, and couldn't shake the feeling that I was hobbling around with a pea shooter, whilst the bots ran around with real guns. Everything I did felt ineffectual, but the bots didn't seem to have any trouble killing me.

Re:What do you think of the bots? (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008577)

I think we've actually set the bot skill too high on the server. We've tweaked it down quite a bit - see if you still get the same impression.

What do you think about the weapons? (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27001589)

Are the weapons balanced, or are some too powerful/useless? Why? I wanna hear your opinion!

Re:What do you think about the weapons? (1)

mangobrain (877223) | more than 5 years ago | (#27003929)

They're... ok, but none of them particularly grab me. I really, really dislike the way that you have to stop and press an action button to pick up a weapon - it might be intentional, because in the small amount of time I played, it seemed like the inventory was very limited. What really killed that mechanic is the way that picking a weapon up also switches to it. Realistic, arguably, but incredibly awkward when you pick up a grenade, for example.

Not sure what to make of the flame thrower. Nice visual effect, but I found it difficult to determine whether or not I was actually *hitting* anything with it (apart from myself).

Not strictly weapon-related: I found the entire game very, very sluggish - movement, projectiles, reload times... far too slow IMO. I'm not saying you necessarily have to emulate Q3 for pacing - bunny-hopping at break-neck speeds isn't everything, UT2004 took a different approach with fixed-speed movement like yours, but configurable overall game speed. Currently, though, things take so long to accomplish that it somehow doesn't feel like you're actually in complete control of the game. Also I'm not entirely convinced by the HUD concept - it could grow on me, but the option of a more traditional HUD wouldn't go amiss. Remember, sometimes the reason things get copied time and time again is because they *work* - you don't have to change *everything* to be good!

Very good choice of engine, though, and nice to finally see ragdolls in an open-source FPS. For me personally, Nexuiz is by far and away the best FOSS FPS around in terms of gameplay, but the graphics are too garish (no real consistency in colour and texture usage) and the engine just doesn't perform.

Re:What do you think about the weapons? (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008513)

Part of this is intentional. You have unlimited ammunition, but the tradeoff is that you need to be very good at evasion while you reload or simply find a place to hide for a second.

Some guns, like the rifle and the shotgun, are loaded one round at a time, even if they can hold up to 5/8 rounds. This is because, used well, they're one hit one kill weapons. The rifle only needs to score a bullet to the skull, and getting hit nearly point blank with the shotgun splatters everything.

Other things, like the flamethrower, are there purely for strategic value. Players can completely block a choke point with one. It's very difficult to use as an "on offense" weapon. It'll be a lot more useful once we start throwing zombies at everything though.

As far as the speed goes, that is actually a detail that is controlled per map. The argument is that in lower gravity, you'll get less traction before leaving the ground. Of course, you can still impulse jump. Pressing jump in the air will do different things depending on which direction you're holding AND looking. If you're good, you can actually skate along the ground very quickly.

As far as the HUD thing, we are trying to be different. That's a polish sort of thing, and if something isn't working, we'll replace it. For example - it used to be that there was no health bar. As you took more damage, the crosshair became more red. Most people couldn't link the two occurences.

Part of this, I think, is habitual. After playing a zillion "me too" shooters, it's difficult to pick a shooter up and actually try something different because you are acclimatized to the way that every shooter since 3D Catacombs works.

The game speed is configurable, by the way. Right now the command is just not existent in the menu.

Blood Frontier was originally intended to be much more tactical, so I do believe that the reload/firing times may be in need of changing, since the game is no longer going in that direction.

Thanks for your input. As was said somewhere else, we can deal with negative input just fine - so long as it's constructive. We've just got no patience for trolls though - they're like the genital warts of the internet.

Yes, the web site isn't that good. (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27001719)

We are essentially a three man op, with some well meaning people who offer us great help and contributions every once in awhile. We didn't focus heavily on the web site. We're too busy with the whole developing a game thing. So if you're a WEB DESIGNER with some CHOPS and some FREE TIME drop us a line.

Re:Yes, the web site isn't that good. (1)

Xentalion (1005477) | more than 5 years ago | (#27013055)

I have some free time and I'm a fairly competent web dev. If you don't mind me helping, I'm sure I could build you something. Besides, I think BloodFrontier is the greatest FPS I've played in a while. :D

Re:Yes, the web site isn't that good. (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27019477)

Please do! We are always looking for talented people to fill in the parts we are only improvising; you can either use our forums at http://www.bloodfrontier.com/forums [bloodfrontier.com] or use our preferred method of collaboration by joining us on IRC at http://www.bloodfrontier.com/chat [bloodfrontier.com] (or irc://irc.freenode.net/bloodfrontier if you have an IRC client).

Tribes had a IRC client built-in (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27002037)

Although I never figured out why the hell it did. In Tribes 2, they went a step further and added an entire non-Internet browser system to the game which I don't recall ever using, or ever seeing anybody use. And which was probably being the cause of that game's completely unfinished release, as they spent so much time developing some weird forum/browser thing that nobody used instead of, say, getting the vehicle physics right.

Anyway, point is, don't be proud of features that other companies have already tried and rejected. Not only have they been, uh, rejected, you're also not getting any innovation points for being the *second* game to have it.

Re:Tribes had a IRC client built-in (1)

qreeves (1363277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27007791)

The point was it was implemented in the server, so you can get real time help if necessary. We're hardly saying we're the first to do it (Even UT had a builtin IRC client), just that it is simple and quick to get help if you need it. I'd say this was more a troll than feedback.

Re:Tribes had a IRC client built-in (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27008635)

It also gives us a great way to listen in on what players think. Feedback is important to us, we take it REALLY seriously, and most people - like yourself, don't really bother giving useful feedback, so spying from IRC is the best we get.

If you can't build anything, try tearing something down. It still won't help your self esteem. On the other hand, that Bacon wrapped chorizo looked great.

Re:Tribes had a IRC client built-in (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27011445)

I'm not "tearing it down." You asked for bugs, I'm giving you bugs. I give you bugs, your team (greeves) ignores them because I didn't stay on an empty server long enough. I can't give you what you're looking for, because I don't know what it is, and frankly: I don't care. The fact that there were only 3 functioning non-me server seems to tell me that nobody else cares, either.

The first step is making people care. A working website, for example, might go a long way towards this. Fixing the blatantly obvious bugs (resolution switching not working, for example) before asking people to test it might also. These are all things that most software teams would do *before* heavily promoting their product.

Re:Tribes had a IRC client built-in (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27014245)

resolution switching works - if you're on linux. If you're on win, you have to pick your resolution and restart. It's a limitation of the libs we're using.

And yes - you are tearing it down. You've been nothing but mean and vindictive, and haven't offered any specific criticism until prodded. You were criticizing it before you even played it. If you don't like getting called out for acting like a jackass, then don't act like a jackass.

Re:Tribes had a IRC client built-in (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27024127)

I don't like having my time wasted.

"Hey, here's this great thing you should try! You like FPS games! And it's free! Download today!"

"Ha ha, sucker, turns out it's impossible to download, the game is broken in many fundamental ways, and the UI is unreadable and confusing. Also nobody's playing, so even if you look past all those flaws, it's not fun at all."

It's a classic bait-and-switch. Why wouldn't I be upset? Why wouldn't I be a jackass?

Re:Tribes had a IRC client built-in (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27034257)

Four minutes and five seconds. That's how long you were in the game for - not eleven minutes (that's how long you were on IRC for). I've waited two hours for a game to start in bigger popular *released* games like ET:QW because no-one was playing. This game has instant-action bot fights to keep you amused until other players arrive. Play for more than 4 minutes and do something other than whinge, then I might care what you have to say.

Re:Tribes had a IRC client built-in (1)

Acord (1463157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27035099)

There are 12 year olds who can download it with no trouble? You can't see past the menu system(which is the last thing implemented in any game) or read a manual? (protip: we've called it README) You sit here spouting ignorance and bile because outside of making a less healthy chorizo sausage than normal you seem incapable of creating anything of value on this earth, so you want to tear our work down to make yourself feel better?

Basically, the way you are acting only highlights the fact that you are full of failure, and not of much usage as a human being.

I'm sorry you don't like it. You're entitled to your opinion. But if you can't present it in a reasonable manner, don't be surprised if people don't waste their time on you. I've wasted enough, and still can't see that you have any reasonable concerns.
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