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Testing Lenovo's ThinkPad W700ds Dual-Screen Notebook

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the laptop-envy dept.

Portables 197

MojoKid writes "Lenovo's ThinkPad W700 is a unique product, targeted squarely at mobile professionals who require the power, features, and performance of workstation-class product in a notebook. The machine has a few stand-out integrated features, like a Wacom Digitizer Tablet and X-Rite Color Calibrator. In addition, the ThinkPad W700ds version and adds a secondary, slide-out 10.6" WXGA+ display, which increases monitor real-estate by 39% spanning across its two panels. HotHardware's video demonstrates the machine's arsenal of toys for the graphics pro, in a somewhat portable desktop replacement notebook."

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Information about Lenovo ThinkPad (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27026759)

I'll share with you an anecdote about my new ThinkPad that really happened with a friend and I a few days ago.

This incident occurred one day when we were driving along a little-traveled highway a few miles from our homes. After we stopped at a rest area, A man with a huge stud nigger on a leash got out of a car. He took the nigger to a nearby tree and tied the nigger to it. We asked the man what he was doing to the poor nigger. He explained that he and his family were moving out of state and they couldn't take the nigger with them. Since none of his friends could take the nigger, he was going to leave it here in hopes that someone would give it a home.

As my friend walked over to the nigger and petted his stomach, her hand accidentally touched his genital area. The nigger suddenly stopped chimping out and began panting plaintively. I smiled at her. I thought she would let it go, but then she rubbed her hand along his penis sheath. I was shocked when his large black dick started to emerge from its hiding place. He again started making a noise, but it was very different than the ooking and eeking had made moments before.

"You're reading my mind, aren't you Jenny?" she said. I thought about it for a moment and then walked over to the nigger. He climbed up on my hips at once and wrapped his front paws tightly around my stomach and humped his prick straight toward my vaginal opening.

He pumped his semen into me for what seemed like an eternity, filling up my cunt, the overflow pouring out onto my ass and down my legs. I felt a huge bulge expanding in my cunt. I tried to pull away, but the knot that had formed in his cock locked us in position.

He growled deep in this throat, warning me not to move. I was afraid of upsetting him, as I didn't want him to bite me or beat me like Chris Brown [the-gossip.net] beat Rihanna. [thesuperficial.com] His knot deflated moments later and his cock slipped easily out of my dialated, sopping hole. I passed out shortly afterward.

When I came to, I looked around and realized that my friend and the nigger had disappeared. I wearily got to my feet, replaced my clothing and ran to where my car had been parked. My friend has run off with the damn nigger as well as my Lenovo ThinkPad! I burst into tears, not knowing what to do next.

Offensive (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27026793)

From the article:

"This thing is so well designed, your grandmother could use it."

As a 48 yo grandmother, feminist, and longtime C programmer, I find that offensive. It's agist and sexist. No one would have said "...your grandfather could use it."!!

Re:Offensive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27026997)

Well, could your grandmother use it?

Unless your grandchild is reading the article, your entire point is invalid, since the implication of your post seems to be that you're a grandmother and able to use it.

Calm down - it's just an expression based on grandparents (usually) being less tech-savvy than their 16-30 yo grandchildren. I have a feeling that you're well aware of that, but somehow - in a self-righteous fit - convinced yourself could be ignored.

I've heard the expression "so easy your grandparents could do it", is that better? (But my grandparents are dead - they don't even get a chance to do it, you insensitive clod! Discrimination! Bloody murder!)

And "agist" - please... You think you can just add -ist to anything and start screaming "oppression!"? Get over yourself and find another hobby than arguing semantics.

Re:Offensive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027037)

Troll post and you fooled for it.

Re:Offensive (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027161)

no one gives a fuck what you find offensive granny.

Re:Information about Lenovo ThinkPad (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027105)

Fuck you, A.Coward. Take your backwards, racist bullshit and go fuck your shemale-sister in some backwoods cabin. We don't want you as a member of the human race anymore, ignorant-ass bullshit-spouting, human-garbage. And I'm a white guy saying this, so once again, fuck you, fuck off.

Re:Information about Lenovo ThinkPad (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027141)

Don't get so worked up over it, he's just upset he caught his daughter sucking two black dicks at once. Or his wife with one black cock, but it was balls-deep in her pussy, and stretching it out WAY beyond what his 'manhood' could muster.

Be gentle with him, the experience left him a little scarred, so he lashes out where he can.

Re:Information about Lenovo ThinkPad (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027233)

Typical monkeylover ranting. GTFO.

Re:Information about Lenovo ThinkPad (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027301)

Why are you so upset at the AC? She was clearly a woman, and her having sex with the nigger clearly invalidates the ofensiveness of her use of the word "nigger".

Or perhaps you, being a white man, are envious of a woman having interracial sex with a nigger and you are lashing out. You pretend not to be upset when you see a white women holding hands with and kissing a black man in public, but seeing it again and again grates on you.

"What do they have that I don't?", you ask yourself. You drive a recent-model Jetta and own your own 1-bedroom condo and work a decent job writing ASP.NET code to pay for it all. You look all around you and you see your colleagues, attractive young professional women, increasingly dating blacks. Blacks who have a GED(if even that), blacks who get around with a bus pass(if even that), blacks who still live with their mammies and their 12 brothers and sisters in some crackhouse on the bad side of the train tracks.

"Why would conscientious, attractive, successful women allow themselves to be used by filthy, shiftless black men?", you ask yourself, as you observe loud, stinky, gorrilla-faced blacks driving their white partners' cars, living rent-free at their white partners' apartments, and even being given cash allowances by their white partners.

Black men are receiving everything they want for free, and they have done nothing to deserve it all!

To understand this phenomenon, you must first understand the female psyche. The apperance of women does not matter, for all are fat pigs on the inside. They prefer to be treated like queens, they prefer to be listened to, not to listen. They prefer large cars, large sunglasses, and large dicks, and ugly stinky black men because all of those big and ugly things make the woman appear to be cuter and prettier by comparison as well as being all of those things daddy told her that she should have, her being a princess and all. You see, it's all a matter of proportion. The best thing that you can do is not to pretend that you are offended while you are really laughing inside. Also, try to think of the futures of these women. Soon, they will be financially and esthetically bankrupt after they give birth to hybrid ape-babies and daddy's nowhere to be found.

In ten years you will be a proud, successful manager with a spring in your step. You will see a few of your old lady-friends in passing, but something will be missing. They will all be dead inside. Her skin will be stretched, her figure barreled, her hair frazzled and her voice hoarse from their constant yelling at their illegitimate, misbehaving chimplets. She will remember that time a decade ago when she considered asking you out but was instead swept off her feet by some "in yo face" nigger. A single tear will fall from her eye as she says goodbye over the din of her screaming chimplets.

Re:Information about Lenovo ThinkPad (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027495)

Bullshit, it was not written by a woman. It was written from a woman's POV so that the writer could deflect criticism as with your post. And now you're demeaning woman. You're just a tiny, sad mind.

First Post (-1, Offtopic)

dasdumper (1417669) | more than 5 years ago | (#27026761)

and I have nothing to add.

Well (1, Insightful)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 5 years ago | (#27026769)

As usual, Portability = $$$$$$$$$

I'm sitting in front of a hand built desktop that runs at 3.2 Ghz (Lenovo runs at 2.53) with 4 gigs of RAM and a terrabyte of hard disk space. I'm using an IBM model M keyboard (long live the king!) with dual 27" monitors from Dell, with S-IPA panels.

      Total cost? about 2 grand, and I put together the CPU unit 2 years ago.

Re:Well (2, Insightful)

abhi_beckert (785219) | more than 5 years ago | (#27026815)

Ok, so your system is cheaper. But that's a *quad core* 2.53Ghz machine of the latest architecture. It's pretty damn fast. And the hard drives are 7,200 RPM and they're running on RAID 0, which is also very fast.

Plus it has a bunch of features yours is probably lacking:
  - webcam
  - fingerprint scanner
  - Wacom tablet
  - VGA/DualLink DVI/DisplayPort
  - Display Calibrator
  - FireWire
  - Express/Smart Card expansion
  - WiFi/Bluetooth
  - Not to mention... fits in your backpack

All in all, that thing isn't too bad a price for a truly mobile workstation. But it has a pretty small target market.

Re:Well (3, Informative)

Forge (2456) | more than 5 years ago | (#27026965)

Let's look again at those features.


- webcam -:$20.

- fingerprint scanner -: $35
- Wacom tablet -: $79
- VGA/DualLink DVI/DisplayPort -: Probably already in a $2K desktop.
- Display Calibrator -: Never seen this on desktop or Laptop before, don't know how well it works.
- FireWire -: Probably already in a $2K desktop.
- Express/Smart Card expansion -: 5 in 1 multicard reader. $15
- WiFi/Bluetooth -: USB Bluetooth and PCI WiFi -: $30 total
- Not to mention... fits in your backpack -: Back to the grand parent's point that "the extra cost really is just for mobility."

$2,179 is still a hell of a lot cheaper than $6,209.

Re:Well (1)

abhi_beckert (785219) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027005)

$6,209 is the demo model. Actual prices start at "just over $3000", but I can't find what features you get for that.

Re:Well (2, Funny)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027199)

$6,209 is the demo model. Actual prices start at "just over $3000", but I can't find what features you get for that.

A one year discount pass to your local chiropractor.

Re:Well (1)

nextekcarl (1402899) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027223)

Seriously. 11 pounds?!? I complain about my old laptop and it's only 7 or 8 pounds.

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027531)

What, three-thousand?! There's no way that can be right!

Re:Well (1)

digitalchinky (650880) | more than 5 years ago | (#27028233)

I can tell you what you don't get for your 3 or 6 grand - you don't get a left handed model. This takes me right out of the market segment.

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027265)

Winning an argument on the internet -: Priceless.

Re:Well (1)

Zerth (26112) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027373)

A display calibrator is US$30-60

Re:Well (1)

flosofl (626809) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027749)

A display calibrator is US$30-60.

Well, not a good one. Those are just cheapo models Datacolor, Pantone, and X-Rite make so Dad's family pictures will look "good enough" when printed. A pro-caliber color calibrator for serious graphic work will set you back $1500 for the low end. Even the portables for quickee on-the-fly calibration are going to run you at least $300.

Re:Well (4, Funny)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027195)

- Not to mention... fits in your backpack

...which you have to carry in a wheelbarrow (*not supplied). :-)

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27026891)

Somehow I feel like you aren't telling us all the specs for an equal comparison.

Newegg [newegg.com] , Quad-Core 3.2 GHz processors I get two listed, one for $1000, one for $1550.
(Desktop Processor - Filters on were Quad-Core, and every processor speed greater and equal to 3.2 GHz ) (If I turn on all the speeds from 2.5 up I get prices from $150-$1550)

Somehow I doubt you spent only $2000 for a 3.2 GHz machine. Unless you might be running a single or dual core, lower graphics, etc?
(Article is for a Quad-core (core 2 extreme) 2.53 GHz CPU, GFX: Quadro FX 3700 (which linked Evaluation says is the basis of the GF 9800 cards) )

Re:Well (2, Informative)

Anpheus (908711) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027087)

Intel's new Core i7 920 can be overclocked to 3.2GHz with the stock cooler (and without voiding the warranty,) and go much higher on marginally more expensive coolers. 3.8GHz easily on a $40 heatsink and fan, 4.0 GHz if you opt for the extremely high end heatsinks, 4.2 GHz I've seen on water running stable. And on more exotic coolers, you can hit 4.5-5.0 GHz.

I imagine that is similar to his situation. The Core i7 costs $290 right now or so, and can easily beat the older Core 2 based $1550 processor you found in most benchmarks. Especially anything that hits the memory, as my i7 can hit 18GB/s (big B) to RAM. That's two and a half times what Intel's dual-QX9775 "Skulltrail" platform can do.

My entire machine cost lest than that QX9775, by the way.

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027171)

Clearly they're talking about some shitty old Pentium 4.

It's going to take awhile to beat the "HIGHER NUMBER = FASTER" bullshit out of people, when it comes to hertz.

Re:Well (1)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 5 years ago | (#27028059)

I built this machine 2 years ago. It has an e6400, overclocked to 3.2ghz. Yes, I've looked very carefully at the benchmarks : I could put another $1200 and upgrade to an i7 with an SSD, but I would only get an average of 20% more CPU performance.

Re:Well (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027211)

Wouldn't surprise me if he has an Intel E8500 or something such, but then he says two years old so who knows.

Re:Well (1)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 5 years ago | (#27028069)

e6400. 50% overclock. PER core performance is within 20% of the top end CPU you can buy today, and the apps I run are not multithreaded, unfortunately.

Re:Well (0, Redundant)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027101)

If you had the skills to hand build a 3.2GHz CPU, I think you should be able to afford something more portable than a desk side furnace.

Re:Well (1)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027457)

That's why I said "CPU unit"...it's a legitimate term to describe the big black noisy box near my feet that contains all the guts of the computer. I know the CPU is actually just one chip in the box, but a lot of people call the whole box the CPU.

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027533)

Yes they do. Those people are not on Slashdot =P j/k

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027803)

a lot of people call the whole box the CPU.

yeah, the same people who call internet explorer "the internet", and who google "ebay.com" because they dont know what an address bar is.

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27028081)

Ignore these trolls.

CPU stands for central processing unit. That is where processing is done. It is not done in your keyboard or screen but in the box. The fact that other things go on in there is not relavant. It's like saying we can't call the chip a CPU coz its also got cache ram on it. The ACs are too impressed with the fact that they know what a processor chip is. They don't really belong on ./...

Posting anon to avoid undoing mods...

Re:Well (2, Insightful)

MrMista_B (891430) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027225)

Alright, now take it down to Starbucks to work on stuff while you have a coffee.

So much for boasting about '2 grand', huh? I agree with your point, but there are uses for expensive, portable computers, even uses that justify spending that kind of money.

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027445)

Ok so you have a 3.2GHz CPU, 4GB of memory, a 1TB hard drive and dual 27" displays. What kind of CPU, RAM, HDD and GPU do you have?

I bought a laptop a couple months ago. It has a C2D 2.26Ghz, 4GB DDR3 memory, 360GB 7200 RPM SATA2 hard drive, Geforce 9600M GT GPU with 512MB GDDR3 memory, 18.4" 1920x1080 display, Dolby Surround 5.1 speaker system (5 speakers + subwoofer built into the laptop), DVD burner, full size keyboard with keypad, integrated webcam, fingerprint reader, 6 in 1 flash card reader, 3 USB, 1 eSATA/USB, HDMI, VGA and display ports. Cost, $1150. Add in the cost of my 1TB external eSATA hard drive and it's $1250.

Excluding the dual 27" displays and assuming you are only using a single core CPU (since you didn't specify, it's logical), it sounds like my laptop beats your desktop in performance, power economy and portability. However, if I throw in 2 28" displays that adds another $700 ($350 each). The total cost would then be $1950, about the same as your cost except my setup would have 3 displays (2 of which would be larger), presumably better CPU, more HDD space, all of the other extras AND still be portable.

I'm not trying to out e-peen your computer, I'm just saying that portability doesn't have to mean $$$. If you know what to look for and shop around, you can get great deals. The only reason this new Lenovo costs so much is exactly that, because it's a new implementation of technology.

Re:Well (1)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 5 years ago | (#27028097)

This machine was built 2 years ago. I have a core 2 duo at 3.2 GHZ, several hard drives at 7200 rpm, an Geforce 8800 GT, sennheiser HD 580 headphones, and dual DVI ports (yours has only single, so you can't have 2 monitors like I do. Also, good quality 28" displays without a TN panel, comparable to mine, cost more like $800 each). So no, my e-wang is bigger. And, obviously, if I had built it today, it would be an i7 based system that would also e-spank your sleek new laptop.

Still, that is a sweet system. Just, as always, for the same cost, desktops >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laptops in performance and usability at the same price point.

Re:Well (4, Funny)

dbIII (701233) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027461)

and I put together the CPU unit 2 years ago

Cool! Not only do you have a model M but you also have a semiconductor fab plant!

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027473)

Did anybody ask you what YOU run? This isn't an article about ShooterNeo's new desktop that he so ingeniously built with spare parts (aren't you clever) and saved so much money. Try lugging your desktop and your 27in monitors around in the field, you asshat, then report back about how your desktop is so ubercool and better than Lenovo's offering.

Re:Well (2, Interesting)

ducomputergeek (595742) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027595)

We just bought two Quad core desktop machines with 8GB of Ram & 750 GB hard drives for $550 each. Granted, one is for database development, and the other is an emergency, emergency emergency database back up for our live site. (If the other 3 hosting providers would some how fail).

When I was more into the video production side of things, I lugged around a 17" powerbook. It was big, heavy, and inconvenient to use, especially on airplanes. That's why I moved to the 12.1 Powerbook that I am STILL using to type this.

If you are going to get a 17" to sit and park on a desk, or move from the home to the office, for that amount of money, you could get a pair of really, really good desktops and an external hard drive or use VNC.

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027851)

desktop != notebook

Re:Well (2, Insightful)

The Clockwork Troll (655321) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027925)

Perhaps if you had a portable computer, you'd get out of the house more and have more exposure to people who know how to spell words like "hand-built" and "terabyte", and who know that while using "CPU" to refer to an assembled computer could be synecdochic, the term "CPU unit" is redundant and proof positive that you're just a housebound failure. You're also drawing a false comparison between what is most likely a Pentium 4 class rig, incapable of exploiting the 4 gigs you're running in it, and more modern hardware. Your 2 grand rig probably could have been put together for half that. Ironically, most of us probably agree with your conclusion, that the W700ds carries a ridiculous premium, but I for one wouldn't want to be on your debate team.

Re:Well (1)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 5 years ago | (#27028109)

1. Yep, a housebound medical student during his basic science years, where my job is to study 8 hours a day.

2. My browser doesn't have spell check, its a long story why.

3. I am using XP 64 bit, and it's an e6400 chip overclocked by 50%. I recently considered upgrading, but found that it would not give me much more CPU performance per processing core. It would e-spank the W700d, however, at most tasks despite being 2 years old.

More GHz != More Performance (1)

Francis (5885) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027987)

It's unfortunate that CPUs have gotten so complex, but clock speed is not a particularly good indicator of performance, even on seemingly similar CPUs.

Once upon a time I was curious to do a rough benchmarking of the various CPUs I have access to, just to get a sense of which ones were faster. What I did was to write a simple single threaded traveling salesman solver (http://morbo.cs.pdx.edu/traveling_salesman.c) and run it on all the machines and see how long it took. (Extra detail: The main part of the TSP solver uses less than 4KB of memory, so it should all fit in the CPU cache.)

I got one of my most surprising results when I compared my laptop to my desktop.

Desktop machine: Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3.00GHz
Laptop: Intel Core 2 Duo T9400 2.53GHz

Both are dual core "Core 2 Duo" CPUs. Intuitively, I would have guessed that the desktop machine would have been faster because the desktop is not designed to be as power-conscious, and it has the faster clock speed. I was wrong.

For this particular test, it turns out that the laptop was about 50% faster than the desktop, even though they're both Core2Duos and the desktop has almost 20% "more GHz".

The Thinkpad Matrix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27026795)

When the Thinkpads began doing our thinking for us, it really became there world, not ours anymore.

Dual Screen? (1, Offtopic)

SYSS Mouse (694626) | more than 5 years ago | (#27026801)

with slide out display?

I thought it is dual screen as in.. one on top and another at bottom. *cough* Nintendo *cough*

Re:Dual Screen? (2, Insightful)

conlaw (983784) | more than 5 years ago | (#27026977)

I wonder if the dual screen will sell any better than the "butterfly" keyboard that was part of the IBM Think Pad in the 90's. Apparently, at that time, IBM thought that what laptop users wanted was a larger keyboard, so there was some sort of mechanism by which the keyboard on the laptop spread out. IIRC, this setup didn't work as well in practice as it did on paper, and didn't last very long.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Expandable+keyboard+puts+new+IBM+ThinkPad+in+a+class+of+its+own-a016694636 [thefreelibrary.com]

Re:Dual Screen? (1)

lucifuge31337 (529072) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027025)

I had the misfortune of working at an IBM authorized warranty repair place at the time, and was certified on those pieces of crap. I still have the occasional nightmare that includes replacing a 701 keyboard.

4 Months ago (1)

olddotter (638430) | more than 5 years ago | (#27026805)

Not more than 4 months ago I was thinking someone should make a note book with slide out screen. In fact I would mind 2 slide out screens. More and more often I an very greedy for additional screen real estate.

Working with a standard 15" notebook screen is like drafting on a napkin with a magic marker. Its good for making notes. but not for serious detailed work.

Re:4 Months ago (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027119)

...Working with a standard 15" notebook screen is like drafting on a napkin with a magic marker...

Not so terrible with a really high-rez LCD display. I was really surprised by how much more they can display over the usual 1280X800 displays. Text looks a whole lot better, too.

Re:4 Months ago (1)

Count Fenring (669457) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027739)

Assuming that your eyeballs don't suck like hell.

I've had to ramp up the font size on my desktop, just to be able to run it at a fairly sensible 1280x1024. I'm getting more content on screen than in the olden days, but not much more than someone with regular-sized fonts on 1024x768. And this is all on a 17'' screen. I can't even read stuff on my girlfriend's Macbook.

The worst part is, I'm 26. Not looking forward to when I start losing vision due to age.

A "miss" on 2 security features being crippled (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27026819)

NO, I don't want to use any Laptop or PC with Vista loaded, not until Microsoft fix the 2 security features they PULLED (port filtering) &/or crippled (for efficiency in HOSTS files) shouldn't be & yet, are.

----

1.) The removal of being able to use 0 as a blocking IP address in a HOSTS file

(vs. 0.0.0.0 or 127.0.0.1, which are bigger, slower on load into the local DNS Cache (as well as slower flushes via ipconfig /flushdns) & also occupy more RAM once loaded, for NO GOOD REASON - 0 blocks as well as the other 2 do, & is smaller + faster!)

In this case, this happened on 12/09/2008 Microsoft "Patch Tuesday" updates, it wasn't LIKE that before then!

E.G.-> Here, using 0 as my blocking IP address in a FULLY normalized (meaning no repeated entries) HOSTS file with nearly 650,000 bad sites blocked in it, I get a 14++mb sized HOSTS file... using 0.0.0.0 it shoots up to 18++mb in size (& even worse using 127.0.0.1, to around the tune of 24++mb in size)... Here? This is SENSELESS bloat creation as the result!

&

2.) The removal of IP Port Filtering GUI controls for it via Local Network Connections properties "ADVANCED" section

(This is up there w/ when MS removed the GUI checkbox after NT 4.0 for IP Forwarding, only, this time, the difference is (and, it's a PAIN) is that it is NOT a single 1 line entry to hack via regedit.exe, but FAR MORE COMPLEX to do by hand)... Port Filtering is a USEFUL & POWERFUL security (& to a degree, speed also) enhancing feature!

Afaik, on THIS case (vs. #1 above)? It has always been that way in VISTA &/or Windows Server 2008... & not just the result of a Patch Tuesday modification.

----

QUESTION: Do ANY of you folks have an answer, a GOOD SOLID TECHNICAL answer, as to WHY these cripplings have been implemented in VISTA, Server 2008, & most likely their descendant, in Windows 7?

See - I posted on Microsoft/Mr. Sinofsky's (?) blog -> http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/02/25/feedback-and-engineering-windows-7.aspx

AND, I have YET to get a SOLID TECHNICAL ANSWER on those things going on in VISTA, Server 2008, & probably Windows 7 as well, that justify doing so...

(They're things I'd really LIKE to get an answer to, as to WHY Microsoft has done the 2 things in my list above, to the above noted versions of Windows)

APK

P.S.=> I found the (imo) rather flimsy reasoning behind WHY the PORT FILTERING gui controls were allegedly removed in Windows VISTA, Server 2008, & Windows 7, after consulting with Mr. Mitch Tulloch ( http://www.windowsnetworking.com/Mitch_Tulloch/ ) ... here tis:

From Chapter 27 of the Vista Resource Kit that explains the rationale for removing the TCP/IP Filtering UI:

----

"Windows XP Service Pack 2 actually has three different firewalling (or network traffic filtering) technologies that you can separately configure, and which have zero
interaction with each other:

Windows Firewall that was first introduced in Service Pack 2

TCP/IP Filtering, which is accessed from the Options tab of the Advanced
TCP/IP Properties sheet for the network connection

IPsec rules and filters, which you can create using the IPsec Security
Policy Management MMC snap-in

On top of this confusion, Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 had a fourth network traffic filtering technology that you could use: the Routing and Remote Access Service(RRAS), which supported basic firewall and packet filteringthe problem, of course, is that when more than one of these firewalls is configured on a computer, one firewall can block traffic that another allows"

----

Lame reasoning imo!

I say this, because it is TRIVIAL to create exceptions rules in most any software (or hardware based) firewall generally, & to match that in Port Filtering is quite simple also (even easier imo, provided you know what port's involved, & that's what the IANA lists are for, after all).

AND

E.G.-> Once a malware gets inside? One of the FIRST things it does, is disable a software firewall... & with NO OTHER BARRIERS IN THE WAY, such as PORT FILTERING RULES (which because they work @ an unrelated level (drivers-wise), in the IP stack, makes it an actual advantage because it cannot be 'taken out' from a single point of attack (though, perhaps MS is saying a single point of control is the advantage in their method, it still lends itself to being taken down from a single place too by the same token - imo? A "catch-22" situation, quite possibly & MOST likely))?

I.E.-> It weakens the concept of "Layered Security"... especially vs. say, recent attacks on services like the RPC bug in the SERVER service, for example... no more firewall (or other layers like Port Filtering) in the way, once said software firewall is down (since it works on a diff. driver level than Port Filters do)!

P.S.S.=> Mr. Tulloch ( http://www.windowsnetworking.com/Mitch_Tulloch/ ) & I are currently in progress searching for the reasoning behind the removal of 0 as a valid IP blocking address in a HOSTS file, but even HE was unaware of WHY this was done... but, with any luck? We're going to find out - &, I'll let you all know, here, if the thread isn't dead by then... apk

P.S.S.S. => To all the PUNKS and FOOLS name tossing .... why not help determine the answer to why this has been done, because NOBODY seems to know the answers here... apk

Re:A "miss" on 2 security features being crippled (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27026871)

What the fuck is wrong with you? Stop spamming this shit all over the place, you pathetic man.

Re:A "miss" on 2 security features being crippled (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27026951)

How do you know it is a man? It is women who generally tend to go on and on about things...

Re:A "miss" on 2 security features being crippled (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027067)

See this [jaylittle.com] for more details.

Re:A "miss" on 2 security features being crippled (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027563)

That's all rather cruel. It's just nasty to bully someone so obviously mentally ill. While I don't condone APK's rude behaviour, I think that much worse behaviour can be found in the people hounding him - e.g. this Jay Little character deliberately provoking him and getting his websites shut down. Not pleasant.

Yo Dawg (5, Funny)

bpkiwi (1190575) | more than 5 years ago | (#27026853)

Yo Dawg, we heard you like LCD screens, so we've put an LCD screen inside your LCD screen. So now you can look at things while you look at other things.

We also heard you like pointing devices, so this baby has three of them!, with two sets of buttons!

Re:Yo Dawg (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27026925)

We also heard you like pointing devices, so this baby has three of them with two sets of buttons!

+1 WTF were they thinking?!

Re:Yo Dawg (1)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027179)

We also heard you like pointing devices, so this baby has three of them with two sets of buttons!

+1 WTF were they thinking?!

"When Steve Jobs hears about this, his head's going to explode."

Re:Yo Dawg (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027253)

Yeah, because Steve Jobs know much better what you need and want than you do!

Re:Yo Dawg (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027347)

I wonder where they got their inspiration? [theonion.com]

Re:Yo Dawg (0, Offtopic)

Aranykai (1053846) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027661)

+1 Best post ever. Seriously, that was epic. You'r already +5 so I figured I would post instead of use mod points.

Genuine Windows (4, Funny)

Dan East (318230) | more than 5 years ago | (#27026919)

From the specs:
Operating System: Genuine Windows Vista Business 64

It's a good thing the put "Genuine" in there to clarify things. Otherwise people might assume IBM was shipping this $6,000 notebook with a pirated copy of Windows to keep the price down.

Re:Genuine Windows (1, Funny)

PrescriptionWarning (932687) | more than 5 years ago | (#27026967)

When Win7 releases they'll probably play catch up to Apple and rebrand it "iGenuine"

Re:Genuine Windows (3, Informative)

gbrandt (113294) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027169)

Lenovo is not IBM

Re:Genuine Windows (0, Redundant)

Colonel Korn (1258968) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027665)

Lenovo is not IBM

And it's a Chinese company, isn't it?

e;p? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27026937)

par4noid conspiracy Completely before

But will it ... (3, Insightful)

AigariusDebian (721386) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027013)

... run Linux?

And this time it is no meme, but a real question. What good are slide-out screens and fancy fingerprint readers if they are based on such obscene hardware hacks that a normal operation system would be unable to use it all.

That is something reviews would actually be useful for.

Re:But will it ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027149)

Maybe that OS must evolve then, eh?
The Samsung SyncMaster 2263DX has a 22"+ 7" screen and works fine

Re:But will it ... (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027271)

... run Linux?

I think it probably will. I'm not quite sure how the screens link up, but the fact that it uses an nVidia GPU is promising, as these are well supported. If you prefer to use nVidia's own drivers with their Twinview, that might present a challenge (not sure), but I've had lots of practice at setting up Xinerama, and I think it should cope.

Re:But will it ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027995)

This is actually something I'm somewhat interested in knowing. I don't tend to believe in desktop replacement laptops, but this does have some pretty nice features. However I don't like Windows, so I would rather not need to use it to make the hardware go.

Unfortunately some of the design decisions do prevent me from really wanting one. Among them is the presence of the clitmouse, and having ports on the front and back of the unit. I know a lot of people are going to think I'm nitpicky about the latter, or outright out of my mind about the former, but I don't care.

well (1)

ani23 (899493) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027051)

I am sick of lenovo and their customer service. I remember how I used ot get knowledgeable reps for thinkpad services with IBM. with lenovo it has hit such a low point I dont think I will be continuing my loyalty to thinkpads anymore.

Re:well (1)

bignetbuy (1105123) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027455)

Horseshit. Lenovo still gets service/support through IBM. Try calling them instead of bitching on slashdot. I called them at 4:30pm on a Wednesday about a bad DIMM. They had a replacement sitting on my desk at 8:30am the following morning.

The screen is on the wrong side (5, Interesting)

harmonise (1484057) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027055)

The screen is on the wrong side. Because of the numeric keypad, the home position for typing is to the left side of the computer. This means that you are facing the left side of your screen while typing instead of facing the center of the screen. Putting the second screen on the right makes this even worse. You'll type while always looking slightly to the right. If the screen had been placed on the left side, at least a user could sit in front of the computer, type, and be facing the center of the two screens.

Re:The screen is on the wrong side (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027153)

Yeah I would tend to agree with you, but for some reason most graphic designers put the pallets to the right of the screen. Just habit I guess, but old habits are hard to break. I think they most likely looked and where people placed pallets and put the screen there.

Re:The screen is on the wrong side (1)

Count Fenring (669457) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027757)

Habit, or the dominance of right-handed mousing ;-)

I know that every time I've had multi-monitor set up, it's the left-hand monitor that I use as my primary monitor, and my right-hand that I use for overflow/constantly up things.

Re:The screen is on the wrong side (4, Interesting)

Random Destruction (866027) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027165)

You're thinking like a coder, not like a graphics pro. The wacom tablet is the main input device, not the keyboard.

Re:The screen is on the wrong side (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027395)

Most graphics pros don't use wacom boards, and factor in the tiny size of it along with the price and you should get a good derisive laugh. Replacing or adjusting copy, which is where having a laptop rather than just a hard copy could be a lifesaver on important trips, isn't really helped by a wacom tablet.

This thing's got a very limited market, even among the people most of us would think could use it. Some people doing field work in video/film could get it in their budget, and some web designers who waste their money on the latest gadgets will buy it.

Re:The screen is on the wrong side (1)

indi0144 (1264518) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027663)

if you put a designer to choose between this baby or an MacBookPro 17" guess what.. Seriously, this kick ass almost for the same price.. a RAID and a Quadro FX WTF it's a tank. Can't see why a company launching a very targeted machine can be bad, But not just for designers, that little screen can be useful in games, to put the media players, rss readers, desklets, torrent client, all that little stuff that you run while doing actual work.

Maybe designers waste a lot in visual related gadgets because they work with their eyes (Yes, coders do use the eyes too, but is not an issue if the mono type font it's a little bit off the pantone right? or do color matching creates bugs in code or something?), having visual problems can really hinder your productivity being a designer and shortens your work "half-life" because nobody hires designers that because of shitty screens and bad illumination now can't really tell the difference between 5% increase in a given ink.

And yes designers crave/salivate/rape for good looking things, I blame the fact that they are designers, who would have think about it.

Re:The screen is on the wrong side (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027927)

Personally, I'd rather have the Macbook Pro. I know it may not seem like much sense at first, but no laptop with a 2nd screen is going to make me feel at home like a nice, big desktop set-up will -- it's always going to be a compromise, and a compromise which also compromises the portability of the laptop. Compromises all around. Not what I want in this case.

Re:The screen is on the wrong side (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027859)

As a graphic designer and photographer, I can tell you that professional graphic designers use the keyboard all the time. They just spend a lot of time with only one hand on the keyboard. Keyboard shortcuts are a graphic designer's best friend.

Still, I think the screen is on the correct side, even though I don't like the laptop very much. Perhaps there is enough of a "Windows graphic designer or photographer on the go" market to make it worth it, but it wouldn't surprise me if it flops in its target market.

Re:The screen is on the wrong side (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027813)

Looks like it's on the correct side to me. Most people seem to have their 2nd monitor on the right, rather than left, from what I've seen. The fact that it has a built-in Wacom tablet should have clued you in as to who this laptop was designed for. If you use one hand on the keyboard and the other hand on the tablet or an external mouse on the right, the the screen is better off on the right. Either way, I'm not sure that I buy your idea of it being a big problem to begin with.

WTH (4, Interesting)

Eil (82413) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027243)

So the engineers at Lenovo have pretty much crammed more "computer" into this laptop than any laptop has had crammed so far. Two screens, nearly full keyboard, two pointing devices, a digitizer tablet, along with a metric crapload of CPU, video, disk, memory, along with the usual gamut of notebook options. It'll set you back between 3000 and 8000 cool US dollars.

And it still comes with a built-in dialup modem inside.

What. The. Hell.

Re:WTH (2, Interesting)

narcberry (1328009) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027317)

But does it have an LPT port?

Re:WTH (1)

indi0144 (1264518) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027679)

In designerland, only old people print with the LPT port.

Re:WTH (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027615)

It'll set you back between 3000 and 8000 cool US dollars.

I'm personally waiting for ThinkPad Reserve Edition of this: http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/15/thinkpad-reserve-edition-unveiled/ [engadget.com]

What? $8000? . . . that's chump-change.

So the engineers at Lenovo have pretty much crammed more "computer" into this laptop than any laptop has had crammed so far. Two screens, nearly full keyboard, two pointing devices, a digitizer tablet, along with a metric crapload of CPU, video, disk, memory, along with the usual gamut of notebook options.

But wait . . . if you order NOW, we will include the Spiral Slicer (tm) as well!

. . . and a Ginsu:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginsu

Re:WTH (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27028149)

Maybe they can get them for something like half a buck these days, and they don't think it's worth the trouble to alter the motherboard design to remove it. Or maybe they just made a good deal in 1999 to purchase 3 million mini-PCI modems a year for the next 15 years. Who knows?

BTW, the thing actually has three pointing devices: the Wacom style tablet, a touchpad and a trackpoint (the tiny joystick-like thingy between the G, H and B keys).

RAID-0? (2, Insightful)

FSWKU (551325) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027245)

I can understand having RAID-0 on there from a performance standpoint, but it's downright STUPID on its own. For one, there's the obvious pitfalls of running the entire thing on such a setup (queue the old "the 0 stands for how many bytes you can recover if something goes wrong" joke). Secondly, if I'm going for pure performance, I'm NOT putting my OS and my scratch space on the same volume. If they want to be serious about this, they need to ditch the optical drive altogether and have room for another HDD for the OS and non-throwaway things. Granted, you should be making regular backups. But at least if one drive fails, the data is still a lot easier to get back than if it were thrown across two drives.

And yes, this is honest constructive criticism here. I'm a proud ThinkPad owner myself (T60 to be exact).

Re:RAID-0? (1)

Aranykai (1053846) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027681)

Statistically speaking, a raid 0 is no more likely to fail than a single disk. Obviously it pales in comparison to a mirror for redundancy, but this system is about performance.

Re:RAID-0? (1)

Count Fenring (669457) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027779)

I think, actually, it is. Not by a huge factor, but it changes from being simply the possible failure rate across one disk, to being the possible failure rate across both disks. The likelihood of any one disk failing within X is slightly lower than the likelihood of any one of two disks failing. Additional, ultra-tiny failure chances are added by the addition of other points of failure (the RAID controller could fail, etc) and two hard drives in a laptop certainly stress the cooling system more ;-)

That said, it's a really, really small difference.

why not a SSD/HD combo (1)

cheekyboy (598084) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027689)

64G SSD for the OS and bits...
320G HD for Applications/Data/mp3s/movies.

Re:RAID-0? (1)

PitaBred (632671) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027981)

If you're working with graphics, especially serious graphics, the storage on the laptop is basically nothing but temp storage. You'll put it on your desktop or your array or whatever when you get back into the office. I see no reason for "scratch" space and the OS to not be on the same disk, or even array. You load the OS, you load your app, most of it's in memory. You aren't going to get a lot of contention.

Opps (4, Funny)

Lordnerdzrool (884216) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027293)

Uh, boss. We accidentally put two screens on this laptop. What should we do?

Hm... Charge people twice the price and call it a feature!

What a ripoff. (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027305)

For six thousand bucks, I could buy myself a 16 way server, use it as a workstation, and pay someone to carry it around for me.

Canyonero? (4, Funny)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027313)

Did Homer Simpson just join the Lenovo design team?

Re:Canyonero? (4, Informative)

NoPantsJim (1149003) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027733)

Homer did not design the Cayonero, he designed "The Homer". The Cayonero was not designed by any major character, but was promoted by Krusty the Klown when he got into stand up comedy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh_Brother,_Where_Art_Thou%3F [wikipedia.org]

Re:Canyonero? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27027905)

HA-HA!

The electronic equivalant of this sandwich (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027333)

Wow, Lenovo made the computer equivalent of the big mac chicken patty sandwich.

http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/ [thisiswhyyourefat.com]

This uber notebook is a total redneck thing. AS a redneck, I'd like to say, that's why I like it. If they shipped it with a good buck knife and a DVD on hunting in the field, then we'd be styling.

Dual screen? More like 1 1/3 screen! (4, Insightful)

syousef (465911) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027597)

Calling this thing dual screen is not too different to calling an old tv with an lcd display of the channel number dual screen. Okay that's a _slight_ exaggeration. Only slight. The second "screen" looks like it's not worth the trouble. Good for task lists and the like but not much else, yet oh so breakable. The headline had me envision something like a tablet pc with a second screen - instead I see something about the size of a size mirror on a combi van. More gimmick than useful. Farq off.

Rearview mirror. No wait, backup monitor. (1)

Bitmanhome (254112) | more than 5 years ago | (#27027915)

This would be useful for Gimp and other software with floating tool bars. Put the content on the main (color-calibrated!) screen, and keep the tools on the side.

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