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Japanese "Hate" For the iPhone All a Big Mistake

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the downloading-the-ifud-app dept.

Cellphones 327

MBCook writes "AppleInsider has posted a great article explaining that Wired's story about Japanese iPhone hate was completely false and has been edited at least twice. The comments in the article were recycled and taken out of context, with those interviewed blogging about the mistakes. The piece then goes on to analyze the iPhone's standing in Japan, as well as some of the major factors working for and against it. At last it points out that the Wall Street Journal tried the same myth of failure just after the phone's launch in Japan, recycled from a myth the year before, pushed by a research company with a possible anti-Apple agenda."

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Everyone hates congress too (3, Insightful)

peektwice (726616) | more than 5 years ago | (#27029805)

but they keep re-electing their congressmen. Same thing applies here.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (4, Interesting)

gravos (912628) | more than 5 years ago | (#27029821)

Why do people persist in propagating the myth that there's cultural opposition to US products? Apple absolutely dominates the MP3 category with the iPod here, and the Macbooks sell like gangbusters. US cars don't sell well because a) they don't sell well in the US either b) half of the overseas models don't even come in RHD versions. Of course they don't sell. I won't consider an iPhone for all the reasons others have listed. Why would I intentionally saddle myself with a phone that has fewer features - ALOT fewer - than my current Softbank model? A model that's 1.5 years old now?

Re:Everyone hates congress too (3, Informative)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#27029989)

Why do people persist in propagating the myth that there's cultural opposition to US products? Apple absolutely dominates the MP3 category with the iPod here, and the Macbooks sell like gangbusters.

US cars don't sell well because a) they don't sell well in the US either b) half of the overseas models don't even come in RHD versions. Of course they don't sell.

I won't consider an iPhone for all the reasons others have listed. Why would I intentionally saddle myself with a phone that has fewer features - ALOT fewer - than my current Softbank model? A model that's 1.5 years old now?

Why do people persist in propagating the myth that there's cultural opposition to US products?

Because its not a myth. By and large, it is easy to bring goods into the USA because the USA has a tradition of a generally free trading country. Do a google and see what's involved into bringing goods from the USA into Japan, and then see what's involved in vice versa. If they wanted to bring in more competition and other goods, you'd see those doors being opened. But they aren't.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (4, Insightful)

pohl (872) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030309)

Do trade barriers count as "cultural opposition", though? Political and economic opposition, sure. But cultural?

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030373)

wtf bullshit... do a google search? you do a google search, and then give us links; don't just make unfounded claims. USA has plenty of trade barriers and domestic subsidies, while denying their smaller trade partners the same

Re:Everyone hates congress too (0, Flamebait)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030827)

wtf bullshit... do a google search? you do a google search, and then give us links; don't just make unfounded claims.

Look, if you don't know how to use Google, then, I really don't need to rationalize anything for you, do I?

IF there is one achilles heel in the Japanese domestic market that Americans have a good brand name in, its housing. For all of its other good points, Japanese housing sucks compared to American housing. You would think an American company could export a house to Japan.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (2, Insightful)

taskiss (94652) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030975)

"Look, if you don't know how to use Google, then, I really don't need to rationalize anything for you, do I?"

tjstork, the person making the claims is the one needing to substantiate those claims, not the one challenging them.

You were wrong when you identified a trade barrier as a cultural one, now you're trying to avoid responsibility for making unsubstantiated assertions.

As of this moment, you've shown no basis for your opinion. Someone telling you "Put up or shut up" would be entirely justified in doing so.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27031003)

Is that a joke? The American houses are bigger, sure. But you can't export that. I'd take a Japanese-built house over an American-built one any day.

He's correct (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030893)

Japan has HUGE import restrictions, they are as protectionist as it gets this side of just banning imports. He's speaking commonly known in economic circles truth, YOU go do some research and keep up with things if you call bullshit. This is SUCH common knowledge that it ain't funny. China is the same way, they have much larger import tariffs and other hoop jumping for imports than the US does. This crap about free trade and the US being overly protectionist is joke, we don't even have across the board equally balanced *fair* trade yet, which would be equal or zero tariffs. The US is more or less crippled for most products and exporting now, one of many reasons we have such a huge trade deficit. Now I am speaking in general terms, I know there are a few discrepancies, but by and large we have one of the planet's more liberal import policies compared to all the other major industrialized nations and we by far make it a lot easier for outsiders to actually *own* the factories and so on here outright without having a major percentage being domestically owned. And that is one of many reasons so many manufacturers went overseas, those nations make it much easier to produce there (by basically giving away most of the ownership to local fatcats as a form of bribe) than to just import there, so that is what happens. Now recently their import restrictions have been changing, because so many outside nations were really starting to complain to Japan about their policies, but it hasn't totally changed yet, because a lot of ther manufacturers simply can't compete on cost with China and some other Asian nations. And forget agriculture, Japan will do whatever it takes to keep their farms intact, for instance, there is a 700% import tariff on rice. That's right, seven hundred per cent.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030005)

Why would I intentionally saddle myself with a phone that has fewer features - ALOT fewer - than my current Softbank model? A model that's 1.5 years old now?

Because the iPhone is a status symbol and your SoftBank isn't.

Like I said in the last thread, I was traveling overseas when it came out and people were going crazy for it.
Why would anyone buy a 2G phone in a country(s) blanketed by 3G towers?
People who want to show off their wealth.
/Not to mention that SoftBank phones are all just rebadged from major manufacturers.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (2, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030121)

Status symbols are for fools. I have no interest in "keeping up with the Joneses" or even what they think about me using some ten-year-old phone. Most of today's economic recession was caused by people boring money they didn't have to try to impress others with shiny new gadgets/homes. AKA fools.

Hypocrite Alert (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030441)

That's pretty rich coming from someone who wants to get sick more often [slashdot.org] so he can consume more health insurance dollars than the Joneses. That's foolish posturing if I ever saw it.

Idiot Alert (2, Insightful)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030685)

I'm more concerned that someone is so petty as to trawl someone's posting history, just to make an ad hominem attack based on something that is completely irrelevant to the original post.

You fail basic reading comprehension anyway, since he was talking about health taxes, not insurance. He was talking about getting his money's worth from his taxes that he has to pay anyway - if Iphones were, heaven forbid, ever handed out to people, funded for taxation, then you can bet that he, and I, would be picking up our Iphones, since we paid for them anyway. Not to mention that his post was clearly not meant to be serious.

Here, however, keeping up with the Jones means throwing away money. If you can't see the difference between throwing money away, and taking what you've had to pay for anyway, no wonder you're happy to spend money on Iphones just to be cool.

A shame you aren't willing to be honest about your posting history, Anonymous Coward - what hypocrisy are you hiding?

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030703)

Status symbols are for fools. I have no interest in "keeping up with the Joneses" or even what they think about me using some ten-year-old phone.

I entirely agree. Although having said that, I always love it when I show that my crappy old cheap phone can still do the features that they've just bragged about their Iphone doing.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030451)

Status symbol? How frigging juvenile. Not to mention outright STUPID. But, what can be expected of a culture that admires reality TV, the Biggest Losers, and American Idol. Sweet Jesus, no wonder the economy is such a mess - - -

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030629)

Because the iPhone is a status symbol and your SoftBank isn't.

Ladies and Gentlemen, next time you hear someone saying that people don't buy the Iphone to be cool, we can all reference the parent post.

(I dispute that anyway. Sure, you might think it's a status symbol when you get it out and say "Look everyone, I'm dialing numbers and talking to someone who isn't here on my IpHoNe - isn't that cool?" but the rest of us just use our phones without making a fuss about it, suggesting we don't care. After all, if we did, we'd buy one too.)

Re:Everyone hates congress too (4, Interesting)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030095)

Why would I intentionally saddle myself with a phone that has fewer features - ALOT fewer - than my current Softbank model? A model that's 1.5 years old now?

The reason I bought it was that it had one feature that actually worked, unlike other phones -- a web browser that didn't suck. I had been waiting for that for a LONG time.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (3, Informative)

filthpickle (1199927) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030689)

This is the same reson I got it. And I haven't been disappointed at all...and I just paid the bill about 2 minutes ago.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (5, Insightful)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030101)

Why would I intentionally saddle myself with a phone that has fewer features - ALOT fewer - than my current Softbank model? A model that's 1.5 years old now?
Because less is often more.

Take for example the most commonly cited complaint about the iPhone â" no MMS. Why would you want MMS? You have email. All MMS does is adds another option to the menu system and makes life more complex. Not only that but because there's no fixed standard, it more often than not sends messages that the receiving phone can't read. And finally, MMS is massively more costly to send than email.

So there you go, you'd buy something with fewer features, because often, fewer features but well implemented is better.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030397)

complex? depends.

with mms you do not have to know two pieces of info about a person. only one, the phone number...

there is a standard, but its largely ignored as its somewhat outdated (most specific in its image size limitation).

and i have yet to see a mms that a reasonably modern phone cant read. now, if you send from a recently bought phone to a phone that was new when mms was first introduced, you may have issues. but hey, thats always a problem with legacy equipment.

as for price, not a tech issue, but a greedy operator issue. if they could get away with it, they would nail a special pr message email rate on their plans...

all in all i suspect its a culture thing more then a tech thing tho.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030513)

with mms you do not have to know two pieces of info about a person. only one, the phone number...
Yes, but then if your phone has a well designed address book (like the iPhone) then all you need is one piece â" their name.

if you send from a recently bought phone to a phone that was new when mms was first introduced, you may have issues. but hey, thats always a problem with legacy equipment.
Really? I can send email to machines from the 1990s and they'll read it just fine!

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030737)

Yes, but then if your phone has a well designed address book (like the iPhone) then all you need is one piece â" their name.

That's not what he means. If you know someone's number, but not their email (either on your phone, or at all), then even with the best address book ever (like the Motorola V980), it won't help you.

Also the problem is that many people don't have phones that can read email attachments.

Really? I can send email to machines from the 1990s and they'll read it just fine!

Well, that's very handy for contacting all those people who lug 1990-era PCs around with them! Who needs a phone, I'll just log on with my 286! Oh wait, I don't have an Internet connection, so how will that help you anyway?

Re:Everyone hates congress too (2, Insightful)

Archimonde (668883) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030929)

You are missing the point of what MMS is (or was) all about. It is very similar to instant/push e-mail. You can write as many text as you want, add some pictures and recipient will get the message virtually instantly, *on their mobile phone*. I can imagine that the e-mail is clearly superior if you have push system installed (exchange, mobileme, whatever) and you receive the e-mail immediately. But, if I'm not very much mistaken, large majority of mobile phones don't have push mail. I can see "smartphones" fairly frequently, but a very small fragment of those people even know about push mail, even less than those have it configured to work that way. I'm talking about Croatia here though, it probably is different from country to country.

I'm all for using e-mail for text communication between mobile phones but telecoms don't think the same. Apart of the push mail problem, the data charges are extremely expensive (especially for teens who probably send pics more than other part of population) so you are left with sms (which is not that much expensive, user-wise), and mms for sending your pics. MMS in the beginning was very expensive but they did lower the price a bit, but my observation is that it is seldom used.

My point is that the MMS is the push mail for the majority of people with non-push mail mobile phones. It is a bit arrogant in a way not to include it in the default sms iphone app. Other mobile phones handle mms pretty much as the sms with attachments. That means you don't need to have special mms apps nor additional interface bloat. I personally don't miss mms much on my iphone, but I do hate it when somebody asks "have you seen the $cool_picture, I've sent you 10 minutes ago?".

Re:Everyone hates congress too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030803)

Except, for better or for worse, phone e-mail is what's popular in Japan. Changing that would be like trying to get Americans to quit sending each other text messages and start using phone e-mail.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

Archimonde (668883) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030969)

If e-mail is so much better (and I agree, with that part), why does the iphone have SMS?

If e-mail is better than MMS, then it must be better than SMS too. One could consider MMS legacy they don't want to support. But why support SMS then? Is there a reason why would you support only one part of the "legacy" system, and the other part you discard even though 99% of other mobile phones support it?

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030995)

So there you go, you'd buy something with fewer features, because often, fewer features but well implemented is better..

That pretty much sums up the iPod/iPhone's appeal. Not that the feature crazy among us will ever understand why.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030547)

Apple absolutely dominates the MP3 category with the iPod here, and the Macbooks sell like gangbusters.

Where's "here" for you? I saw so many tiny cheap music players in Osaka's Den-den town that I'd have to question any iPod dominance. But yes, Macs did seem to be common, and the Apple store doing good business.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#27029829)

but they keep re-electing their congressmen. Same thing applies here.

Are these people elected? You're right bout the lack of responsibility though.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030127)

You know, I've often thought that "newspaper editor" should be an elected position. It's at least as important as any elected official, and the way that newspapers are slanted these days needs some new faces and fresh viewpoints.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (1)

machine321 (458769) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030501)

You know, I've often thought that "newspaper editor" should be an elected position.

It is an elected position... elected by the newspaper owner.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (2, Insightful)

MrMista_B (891430) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030421)

...except they don't.

In case you didn't notice, a little while back, Congress went from mostly Republican, to mostly Democrat.

I'd hardly call that 're-electing' their congressmen.

Re:Everyone hates congress too (5, Informative)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030795)

In 2006 -- the year that Congress went from GOP to Democratic control -- there were 33 Senate races. Six Republican incumbents and no Democratic incumbents were defeated [wikipedia.org] . There were three open seats. So 24 Senators out of 33 were re-elected.

In the House, twenty-two GOP incumbents got the boot and there 34 open seats (including primary election losers) [wikipedia.org] ; 379 out of 435 got re-elected.

So in a particularly "revolutionary" and "tumultuous" election, 72% of Senators and 87% of Representatives were re-elected.

I'd have to call that people "re-electing" their congressmen.

Uhg (1)

nametaken (610866) | more than 5 years ago | (#27029823)

Nice work, Wired.

Re:Uhg (1)

reSonans (732669) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030079)

It's par for the course for them, IMO. The tone of the magazine is that of an ADHD fanboy with access to a very large marketing department.

Then again, maybe I shouldn't be too hard on Wired, as the ever-increasing irony of their name is amusing.

Re:Uhg (1)

jo42 (227475) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030169)

Wired has missed that they have been in the [Really] "Tried" column since before the dot-com bust.

Apple Damage Control (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27029857)

I have the feeling that there were a half truths and full lies like Apple says.

But does anyone have any sales figures (DNRTFA) of the iPhone in Japan. I get the feeling that Apple is jumping on a couple of mistake and throwing out the baby with the bath water.

  We all know that apple has a history of leading with its marketing department. http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/08/03/0031228.shtml
 
  And it is common knowledge that apple censors its forums.
 
-jgtg32a

58% of ipod owners may choose Zune (1)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030091)

Uh did you actually look at the well-sourced article pointing out how bad these sources are. One of them published a piece saying "58% of ipod owners may choose zune".

Re:58% of ipod owners may choose Zune (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030277)

Uh did you actually look at the well-sourced post pointing out how they did not RTFA?

Re:Apple Damage Control (2, Informative)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030097)

Read the first blog response link [blog.nobi.cc] .

Essentially, the guy says he was taken out of context, but if you read the note he fired off to correct the error, he also goes on to explain that the iPhone is simply not selling well in Japan. He claims this is Softbank's marketing problem, but it points to a larger problem that the demand for the product has already been filled in the first few months after release.

Those who want it have it. Everyone else is indifferent.

Re:Apple Damage Control (1)

BuhDuh (1102769) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030267)

TFA says:

The perception of iPhone being a failure was created by a newspaper in Japan, Sankei Shimbun, Hayashi noted in his original reply to Wired. Last fall, it wrote although Softbank tried to sell one million units by the end of 2008, they only sold about 200,000. This article was wrong in two fronts. One is that Softbank nor Apple never publicly claimed they would sell 1 million units. Second, their estimate of 200,000 units were also wrong. Although Apple nor Softbank releases the real number of shipment, today, it is strongly believed that they have shipped more than 300,000 and possibly near 400,000 units in Japan.

(My emphasis)
shipped!=sold

An aside on the death of print media. (2, Interesting)

yotto (590067) | more than 5 years ago | (#27029923)

Oh woe is me! How will we ever survive if all print media dies from the internet? Where will we get our hard-hitting, guaranteed-factual news from then? /Yes, I know Wired isn't a newspaper.

Re:An aside on the death of print media. (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 5 years ago | (#27029981)

it is simple Wired was just fulfilling a contract obligation they have when they bought windows corporate licensing from MSFT. Isn't it obvious that it came out at the same time that Ballmer stated that the Iphone wasn't going anywhere, even though the iphone is selling more units by itself than all windows mobile handsets combined?

Or maybe i should loosen the tinfoil around my neck and head.

Re:An aside on the death of print media. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27029987)

...and bloggers aren't real journalists.

Re:An aside on the death of print media. (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030201)

>>>Yes, I know Wired isn't a newspaper.

When I was in college Wired used to hand-out free magazines to the students. Do they still publish a magazine?

Re:An aside on the death of print media. (-1, Flamebait)

New_Age_Reform_Act (1256010) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030613)

You don't need print media. All print media controlled by Jews and the Rothschilds. The Jew York Times for example.

Internet is the only way where we can find the truth. Yes there is a very low SNR ratio. But at least no one can control the content.

Either way... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27029967)

Who gives a fuck? Japan hates the iPhone, Japan doesn't hate the iPhone; it's a god-damned fucking piece of electronics, not an economic programme or school of politico-philosophical thought. Is it really so important for your sense of self-satisfaction that people you'll never meet in a country you never go to buy the same plastic shit as you do? Fucking Christ, what a sorry species.

Re:Either way... (5, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030023)

It is instinctive that people want to feel that they are making the right decisions. So when other people act similarly they receive validation that their choices are correct, even in minor lifestyle choices like buying Apple products.

So when a whole country (well, not really) rejects a lifestyle choice that an iPhone user made, it makes them uncomfortable and they try to find reasons why their choice is different from the foreign norm. In this case, either they try to invalidate the data (which is hard to do) or they try to explain away the problem by diminishing the importance of the data.

It is just a phone, but for many people it is also an expression of their personality. They don't want to be diminished, so they seek out those who are like-minded. This is the same type of behavior that can be seen at comic book conventions, furry conventions, and Star Trek conventions. Those of us who have no horse in this race should probably just stay as far away from the commotion as possible.

Re:Either way... (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030135)

>>>So when other people act similarly they receive validation that their choices are correct

Yeah but most people are Idiots who make BAD choices. I can understand the need to "fit in" when you're in high school, copying the same style as everyone else, but you'd think people would grow out of that phrase by the time they hit 30. Apparently not.

Re:Either way... (1)

mxolisi06 (1009567) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030321)

Or else you'd think people still are social animals when they hit 30, feeling good about belonging to a group, being gratified by their group's members having a good opinion of them.

Re:Either way... (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030593)

Yeah but most people are Idiots who make BAD choices. I can understand the need to "fit in" when you're in high school, copying the same style as everyone else, but you'd think people would grow out of that phrase by the time they hit 30. Apparently not.

Since we're kind of on the subject, when are you planning to stop making BAD choices? The rest of us who make BAD choices, need a little guidance here.

Re:Either way... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030571)

What I came away with from the original story was that American consumers were less sophisticated and less tech savvy then Japanese consumers.

That would be an interesting observation and it would be news, and, if you are an American, we would have a horse in the race.

Re:Either way... (1)

mapkinase (958129) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030867)

"It is just a phone, but for many people it is also an expression of their personality."

I'd rather have my personality described as "Soup Nazi" than by mere fact of the ownership of some overmarketed gizmo I do not need.

Re:Either way... (1)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030987)

So when a whole country (well, not really) rejects a lifestyle choice that an iPhone user made

And that's the other reason why Apple nauseates me. (The first one being that they're a bunch of patent-abusing bastards dating back to the old "look-and-feel" lawsuits.) Somehow, according to their marketing, the choice of which brand of gizmos I buy is supposed to be a "lifestyle choice."

Thank you, but no, I don't need a multinational corporation to set my "lifestyle choices".

Re:Either way... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030117)

You have anger issues. Get help quickly before you take it out on loved ones. Oh wait. This is

Re:Either way... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030199)

This is what? Were you going to finish that sentence? Maybe next time you should try using a real keyboard, not a touchscreen.

Re:Either way... (1)

JustOK (667959) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030303)

whoooosh

Re:Either way... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030401)

whoooooooooosh

Re:Either way... (3, Insightful)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030597)

I agree, exactly - trying to claim that Japan "hates" the Iphone is buying into the pro-Apple Iphone hype just as much. As you say, it suggests that people in the US are offended that the Iphone isn't the best selling phone elsewhere (if it is even in the US - that seems to be another myth based on hype), and it implies that even for people who don't like it, they view it as a special case, in the same way that people "hate" Windows. People might hate Windows because it's the dominant platform, but it's laughable to suggest that the Iphone is anywhere near comparable (if the article was about the Ipod, sure, that would make sense.)

The reality is that lots of people, especially outside of the US, just don't care about the Iphone, just as they don't care about most other arbtirary models of phone. ("But, but, it I can browse the web, and look at maps!" I hear someone cry - yes, just like every other phone that's been around for years.)

And now we have this joke of an article trying to spin the so-called Apple "hate" as being some kind of agenda. Um, as opposed to the pro-Apple stance that most of the rest of the media take (e.g., the way we get an article about the Iphone everytime it does something that isn't anything special - consider the joke of an article yesterday, Use Your iPhone To Get Out of a Ticket [slashdot.org] )?

It a nice refreshing change to see an article pointing out that not everyone is mad about the Iphone, and that phones in other countries have had the hyped features for years [slashdot.org] . Sorry, that's a fact - no amount of whinging that this is an "anti-Apple agenda" will change that fact.

Old news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27029973)

On D1GG on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, snore.

Leave iPhone Alone !!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27029979)

Apologies to Britney [youtube.com]

I'm glad to hear you are feeling better (3, Funny)

hackstraw (262471) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030043)

and that you have set the people in Japan and Wired straight.

Keep up the good work Steve, and take care of yourself.

-hackstraw

There they go again (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030103)

Those silly Japanese people, hating things and then not hating things. I suspect that their predilection for vacillation stems from the fact that the unique dialect of Mexican which they speak lacks a standard way of expressing the negative of a verb. This, and eating lots of sharks, makes their brain electrochemistry flighty and unpredictable. Whereas the American language and our cow-based diet makes us calm, thoughtful, and peace-loving. Nevertheless, let us not be prejudiced against our Southern neighbors and their quaint and important cultural heritage. Japaese people can be our friends, all it takes is a little tolerance and sensitivity. Hola, amigose! Yo gusta japano, iphone ok, you speak english?!

Wired Blatant Errors (4, Interesting)

olafva (188481) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030105)

This shows just how shoddy WIRED stories are fabricated and sensationalized. I can't help but take that into account in reading future WIRED stories. WIRED credibility is seriously called into question by such blatant errors which articles source denies.

WIRED credibility? (4, Insightful)

hwyhobo (1420503) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030291)

WIRED credibility is seriously called into question by such blatant errors which articles source denies.

WIRED credibility? I don't want to be disrespectful, but do people take WIRED seriously as a news source? I always thought it was just hundreds of pages of ads with a few fillers here and there masquerading as articles.

To be sure, they didn't invent it, they were just particularly blatant about it. PC Magazine & others have done it before, but at least they tried the "comparo"-style fillers to attract readers and create a pretense of content. WIRED never bothered to go to such lengths. To quote WIRED is a bit like using one of those supermarket stand recycled-paper car trader brochures as a source of auto industry news.

Re:WIRED credibility? (1)

db32 (862117) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030723)

WIRED is a f'ing joke. They are clueless sensationalists. My favorite is anything regarding the military. First they go on a huge rant about how security on military networks is a joke and the military is stupid and blah blah blah and they are wasting tax payer money surfing the web. Then a few months later they run a story about the Air Force locking down the proxy and blocking social networking sites among other things and suddenly it is all how they are crushing freedom and stealing free speach from people by blocking websites on military networks. They spend so much time mocking the military and the internet it is almost like they forgot what the D in DARPAnet stands for.

Those car trader things at least have relavent information in them. WIRED is more of the computer variant of the supermarket tabloids.

Re:Wired Blatant Errors (1)

samkass (174571) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030355)

Yeah, that's par for the course for Wired these days. I used to think they were at least halfway credible until they did an article last year on a topic about which I know quite a lot. The article was, in most respects, the opposite of true. And it also "quoted" people who told me they'd said no such thing and stated as fact things that were verifiably false.

Wired is pretty much The Inquirer of the tech world these days.

Re:Wired Blatant Errors (1)

mrsquid0 (1335303) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030465)

I am not sure if Wired has ever been credible. I read it for a while in the mid-90s, not long after it started up, and it was not a reliable source of information even then. I have no idea what Wired is like now, but my early experiences with it were not good.

Re:Wired Blatant Errors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030475)

i find it ironic that someone from slashdot is questioning the integrity of wired. slashdot is the land of sensationalism where entire mindsets are fabricated and assigned to tech's upper echelon to keep together false alliances and create a technocracy that never existed.
 
fuck, it's so routine at this point that even the pizza delivery boys see it as old hat unless it means using stale jokes against their least favorite pet project/os/corporation/file system etc etc etc.

Re:Wired Blatant Errors (1)

The Living Fractal (162153) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030499)

This is what happens when you read about wireless devices in a periodical called WIRED...

Re:Wired Blatant Errors (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030765)

Because obviously an article from AppleInsider is completely trustworthy and unbiased when it comes to the Iphone!

Next article: (2, Insightful)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030107)

Why Slashdot Hates Journalistic Standards

comparing prices of xPhone apps (5, Interesting)

v1 (525388) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030205)

$344 of actual examples of popular Windows Mobile apps included on the iPhone:
-Dashboard: WorldMate Pro $75 "world clocks and weather forecasts, flight and travel information"
-real email client: Pocket Informant $25 "replacement for Pocket Outlook on the Pocket PC"
-real web browser: none seem to exist.
-real contacts: Photo Contacts PRO $30
-Photo browser: Imageer $15
-iPod: Pocket Player MP3 player $20
-Movies: Pocket DVD studio $30
-TV: HandiTV $20 "watch TV from mobile devices"
-Dial up networking: PDANet $34 "use your mobile as a modem!"
-Calculator: Revolutionary Calculator $30
-Touch screen type input: Full Screen Keyboard $10
-PDF: PDF Reader $25
-Notes: List Pro $30 âoeManage your notesâ

Wow... I had no idea windows mobile apps were so expensive! I just got a touch recently and have about 20 apps installed on it, all but three of which were free. The three I bought were $0.99, $1.99, and $2.99. The most expensive app I saw while browsing was an incredible VNC client that does everything plus makes breakfast, for $24.99. over 1/2 the apps in the above list are more expensive than that.

Does MS get some insane cut on the apps or what? Why are they so incredibly more expensive?

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030601)

"real web browser: none seem to exist."

So Internet Explorer, Opera, Skyfire and the coming Fenric are not real web browsers? What's your definition?

Re:comparing prices of xPhone apps (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030817)

I think that list just shows you how biased that article is - and people are complaining about Wired? I think this shows who the real untrustworthy ones are.

I don't know about Windows Mobile particularly, but large numbers of phones have decent built in browsers for free, and even for non-smartphones, anyone can (well, except Iphone users) download Opera Mini for free. Just about every phone on the market plays mp3s and views photos as standard.

I suspect what they've done is track down expensive applications on Windows Mobile, and presented them as if these were typical or the only ones available. Big deal - I could write an expensive but useless application for Windows Vista - or indeed, OS X - and then claim that therefore applications on that platform are a rip off! Yes, on the Iphone, applications are limited - the downside for all other phones is that anyone can write a rip off application, but that's a rather stupid argument to make, as no one forces you to buy it. The upside is that I can download any application from anywhere, and it Just Works.

Are we supposed to take seriously an article that throws around claims like "The mobile software market is a joke." and "It's nearly all absolute crap! Most existing mobile apps fit into one of these pathetic categories".

The only ones throwing around myths are the articles featured in this new story, not the original one.

Naturally (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030227)

Apple is going to go to bat for it's product and of course they are going to say it all was a big misunderstanding.
But the truth still remains it's a clunky pos that has no place in Japan when their cellphones are 5 years more advanced than an iphone...

I have to ask (4, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030245)

Who cares? Not who cares that Wired fucked up, but who cares if the Japanese do or don't like the iPhone? I mean Apple cares, because they want to sell as many as possible, but why does the average person care?

It seems to me like there is some misguided ideal in the US of an extremely tech savvy Japan. That the Japanese are far advanced technology wise, and if they don't like something, well it must be no good. Well, not really. Japan simply has a different set of tech priorities than the US. Huge surprise there, it's a different culture, and a different environment.

Well what this means is that if something succeeds or fails in Japan simply means that it is something the Japanese do or don't like/find useful. That has no bearing at all on how good of a product it is. Something very well may bomb in Japan and do well in the US, or fail in the US and have huge sales in Japan. Sometimes it is just because of different needs. High end headphones are more common in Japan because of the small living spaces. For the same reason, full sized speakers are not. If you live in a 200sq ft apartment, it matters that your sound gear doesn't take up too much space. If you live in a 2000sq ft house, it really isn't a concern.

Personally, I don't give a shit what the Japanese do or don't like. Doesn't affect me at all. They can do as they please, and I'll do as I please. If I look at a cellphone I am going to get it based on if it does what I want, not how popular it is, and certainly not how popular it is in a country I don't live in.

So regardless of the truth of Wired's story, who cares? Get the iPhone because you like it (or don't because you don't), not because it gets the approval of anyone else.

Re:I have to ask (1)

MrMista_B (891430) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030347)

Why does any 'average person' care about ANYTHING that's posted to slashdot, or all places?

'News for Nerds', remember. Doesn't mean if you personally don't care, given slashdot's small but focused tech audience, probably some here will.

Japanese Gadget Love (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030257)

I'm not sure I could go as far at to say that the Japanese practically invented gadget love, but they certainly contributed a lot to its present state. One interesting aspect of Japanese gadget love is that the duration of any given infatuation is typically a LOT shorter than in the U.S. In the U.S., our gadgets tend to range in age from 0 to 10 years. In Japan, my experience shows that the age range is about half of that and they REALLY care about features. Apple's features are "old news" to the Japanese and far more restrictive.

But with all that said, Apple's popularity is a mixed bag and not easily defined. The Japanese like the computers, but I am not so sure about their other gadgets. Another interesting observation to make is the approximately 50/50 split opinion of Sony gadgets. Half of Japan passionately hates Sony because their stuff breaks or fails to function too often. The other half loves Sony and is nationalistically proud to buy and own Sony gadgets.

Brand recognition and reputation is extremely important to the Japanese, but they also care that it works. In the U.S., these things are important but less so. And when it doesn't work, we usually blame ourselves or anything but the manufacturer and so bad products don't affect the reputation of the brand or company.

Ai Phone (1)

BladeDaughter (1488577) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030273)

Nihon no iPhone = ai denwa... nai desu. i only know one person who has it.. i think apps are more intresting to american market.. ganbate!!

They don't hate it. (2, Informative)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030281)

But they don't use it either. Here's the facts: The phone market for Japan is the tightest in the world. Frankly, the phones sold there are generations ahead of what's sold elsewhere in the world. These phones do video teleconferencing, can be used to do wireless credit card transactions, digital TV, some of them can be used as train/bus passes, and even interface with vending machines (just point and click, and viola). The "iphone" frankly has a poor feature set, and oh yes -- it is not a flip phone. The japanese love their flip phones from everything I've read. But as I'm sure there's someone who actually lives in japan around on the forums, please post back and tell us what the real story is... I only talk to people online.

So no, Japan doesn't hate the iphone, there is no conspiracy, Apple is simply behind the times in that country. But hey, if it makes you feel any better -- I doubt Comcast is making any inroads there either. ;)

Re:They don't hate it. (4, Informative)

Garse Janacek (554329) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030563)

...from everything I've read...

...which apparently didn't include TFA. Wired fabricated a quote about how the iPhone is lame compared to Japanese phones, and tried to attach it to two separate Japanese "authorities" on the subject, and both of those people then repudiated Wired's attribution and said that actually the iPhone is their favorite phone. The whole point of the article is that the iPhone is doing fairly well and people like it a lot over there -- the main thing holding it back is its carrier, which is sort of an underdog. And it turns out the iPhone is primarily responsible for major growth in that carrier anyway.

So, you're basically repeating the same myths that the entire article was written to refute, since the article explicitly responds to most of your points... but by referring to "everything you've read", you still got modded informative. Oh well...

Re:They don't hate it. (1)

Improv (2467) | more than 5 years ago | (#27031007)

Regardless of whether the articles about it were built on fabricated quites or not (and if they are, it is a pity), given what I have seen of Japanese phones and conversations I've had, it is true that mid-to-high-end Japanese phones have a much richer feature set than the iPhone (even if their interface is not as nice). Is the iPhone hated? I doubt it - it's overpriced for the pricerange it's in, but it does have a very nice interface (and Apple has pushed the envelope enough here that other phone vendors are going to pay more attention towards their interfaces as well). It can't compete well with mid/high-end Japanese phones on features though.

Re:They don't hate it. (1)

Reapman (740286) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030651)

Agreed... I spent 6 weeks in Japan so although not very scientific, the people I met there were interested in seeing my iPhone because they've never seen one in use over there. I saw almost everyone there had a cellphone, never saw an iPhone. In Canada here I see them all the time. I agree my iPhone just doesn't have a lot of features compared to one of theirs.

Re:They don't hate it. (2, Insightful)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030849)

I entirely agree - and similar is true for Europe.

I would argue that trying to claim they "hate" the Iphone is still pro-Apple hate in a way - "If they're not buying the Iphone, it couldn't possibly be that they're happier using existing phones that have already been doing what the Iphone does, and more - no, it must be because they have an irrational hate for it", rationalises the Iphone fan.

And then, for bonus points, we can follow up with an article whining that this is part of some "pro-Apple agenda" - which is indeed, just what's happened.

IMO (2, Informative)

thexile (1058552) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030315)

The rebuke comes from AppleInsider. How partial can it be?

Re:IMO (5, Informative)

Garse Janacek (554329) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030609)

The rebuke comes from AppleInsider. How partial can it be?

Good point. If only it cited its sources, thus allowing some way for its claims to be verified.

Come on now. This story is about blatant journalistic fraud. They give explicit documentation on how Wired completely fabricated important facts in order to make a sensational-sounding story. If their claim was "The iPhone is the best thing evar and EVERYONE LOVES IT", you'd have a point, but the article is mostly about how Wired repeatedly lied in its article, and then they present data to basically argue "the iPhone is doing pretty okay in Japan". They aren't making particularly inflated claims...

#1 Music App (5, Informative)

sabernar (245306) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030323)

My partners and I had the #1 Music app in Japan for several weeks last month (Boombox - http://tiny.cc/Lrd5g [tiny.cc] ), so they are definitely interested in the iPhone. Just because they don't buy the phone in the same numbers as in the US doesn't mean they hate it. It seems like it's doing fairly well over there.

iphone.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030325)

if we could just fit the iphone into the constitution america wrote...

An slashdot article turns out badly edited? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030359)

You mean that the story was badly edited and based on no trustworthy sources at all?

I wonder what this will do to the reputation of slashdot...

The corner of Irrelevant and Nonsensical (0, Flamebait)

Doomstalk (629173) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030417)

As BoingBoing Gadgets' Rob Beschizza points out [boingboing.net] the fact of the matter is that the iPhone's not selling in Japan. You can argue all you want about why this is, but unless you're Apple's Japanese marketing director, it's largely irrelevant. No amount of ranting about perceived bias on Wired's part will change the numbers, all it does is prove that diehard Apple fans are immune to reality.

"posslble anti-Apple agenda"? are you kidding me? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030459)

What I learned from this post is, "hyperventilating Apple fanboys attack again". Holy cow, what the hell is wrong with these people? Are all their savings in Apple stock options and they need the money to save their dying baby sisters?

Re:"posslble anti-Apple agenda"? are you kidding m (1)

Trillan (597339) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030675)

It's hard to justify "58% of iPod users would buy a Zune instead!" as a fair and balanced study.

Jeez (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030491)

Fanboy Defense Network Activate!!!!

I like Apple products. I own several and I even own an iPhone but I HATE the Apple community and this type of response is why. It's like a bunch of doped up brainwashed zombies that just wander around mumbling "Apple good...do no wrong". This isn't an opinion...just go look at sales numbers and find out who is right. This spindoctor modern politico approach to a tech company just irritates me.

iphones just a usa thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030517)

As I said on the last article - the japanese and europeans don't really "hate" the iphone, but it's just another phone, and not a particularly great one, in those markets. It's only in the USA where it was somehow amazing, due to the incredibly crap nature of the US phone market prior to its introduction.

Go to the website of a typical UK mobile phone [carphonewarehouse.com] supermarket and check out the sort of phones the eurotrash gets. Yes, the Apple iphone is there. But it's just another phone among *many*, and due to its lack of functionality that europeans expect like java, and its well-known lock-in, it's not wildly popular. It's not the prettiest (check out the motorola jewel [carphonewarehouse.com] ), and certainly not the most featureful (see, well, most of the other comparably priced phones)

It hasn't really "failed", it's just failed to live up to hype, apple have to compete as just another vendor in non-US markets.

The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead (4, Insightful)

zerojoker (812874) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030697)

I am sorry, but this is not true anymore. Or rather, it depends on how you define "ahead".
Japanese cell-phones are all about the "bling".
Take my phone for example, which looks great on the feature-list: 3 MP Camera, Japanese-English dictionary, Web-browser etc. etc.
Thing is, that most of the features are so hard to use, that noone ever uses them.
The Web-browser is a joke. It works in theory, in practice it completely fails at every second web-page.
Sure, you can view i-mode pages (which is quite a big thing in Japan) but in the "western"-world everyone is interested in the "real"-web.
There is basically no function to synch the calendar/mails with the PC. No software as far as I know (docomo). Nobody synchs his cellphone with the PC, that's why.
There is no bluetooth, even among the latest models, so, how to connect to your PC, i.e. for sharing mp3/pictures etc.?
It's so hard to enter a word in the dictionary (you have to go through 4 or 5 layers of menus), that you're faster looking it up in a paper-dictionary.
Japanese people use their phone for three things: Phone, e-mail/messaging and surfing i-mode.
That's it. In 2000, that was maybe 10 years ahead. Nowadays it's a joke.
btw, you know what was the comment of my gf, when I said that I would like to have a phone with a full qwerty-keyboard, complaining that, at that time, no phone was available?
Who would've want that anyway? It's too bulky, it looks ugly!
It's all about the bling (TM). If the iPhone sells reasonable it's not because of the revolutionary way of actually being able to use the features. It sells because it from Apple and considered "cool" and "western". Brand recognition, like Starbucks.

Re:The myth of Japan being 10 years ahead (2, Insightful)

filthpickle (1199927) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030877)

It's all about the bling (TM)

I think that the forums here have conclusively proven that only Americans could be so crass. Are you suggesting that acting that way is just part of the human condition for some people? A bold statement sir.

RoughlyDrafted? Lunatic Fringe! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27030745)

Any submission that has to use not one, not two, but THREE RoughlyDrafted.com links to fortify its thesis is automatically full of 100% FAIL.

Dilger's RoughlyDrafted has always been the "lunatic fringe of Mac fandom" [google.com] . His writing is obnoxious, pedantic, unhinged, and needlessly and personally insulting. He's a loon, and people who use his "arguments" to validate their own are risking being lumped into the loon category as well.

Now we can look back at the comments... (2, Interesting)

Karganeth (1017580) | more than 5 years ago | (#27030851)

...And laugh at all the idiots who thought it was "obvious" the iPhone was doomed to be a failure in Japan.

Why Americans Hate the P905i (3, Interesting)

carlzum (832868) | more than 5 years ago | (#27031027)

The Japanese phone of choice, the Panasonic P905i [engadget.com] , would be a tough sell in the US. Sure, a big screen and TV tuner are nice features, but it's big and ugly [phonemag.com] . Americans spend their time in their cars and homes, surrounded by televisions. A handheld TV may be useful in Japan, but I doubt many people in the US would waste their time uploading videos to their phone. The iPhone has a thin case, simple interface, and applications Americans want on the go (email, web, youtube, etc). Surprise, people in Japan and the US have different preferences.
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