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Reading the New York Times On a Kindle 2

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the all-the-news-that's-fit-to-squint dept.

The Media 193

reifman links to his thorough and thoughtful review of the experience of reading a newspaper on the Kindle 2. "I've been eager to try The New York Times on the Kindle 2; here's my review with a basic video walk-through and screenshots. I give the Kindle 2 version of The Times a B. Software updates could bring it up to an A-. Kindle designers should have learned more from the iPhone 3G. Unfortunately, my Kindle display scratched less than 24 hours after it arrived. As I detail in the review, Amazon customer service was not very accommodating. Is it my fault — or will Kindle 2 evolve into an Apple 1G Nano-like $22.5M settlement? You can read about Hearst's e-reader for newspapers from earlier today on Slashdot."

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eat my short shorts slashdot (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27037365)

Eat my short shorts slashdot !!

slashdot is dying - this confirms it !!

Re:eat my short shorts slashdot (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27037657)

Why does short consumption confirm slashdots demise?

Re:eat my short shorts slashdot (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27037857)

If not too forward to presume, given the high class of the OP and all, I would say that since the topic was
Posted by kdawson on Monday March 02, @01:37AM
and the OP's "first post" reply was
by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 02, @01:46AM
that 9 minutes elapsed without a prior "first post", hence the conclusion of
Slashdot is dying
The rest is anyone's guess.

Free content and pay by the page. (0, Troll)

gravos (912628) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038311)

One problem with the Kindle is that it doesn't come with enough free content! There are a ton of authors (even Seth Godin has volunteered) that would give away a book or two because they know people will buy more after they read one, but for some reason Amazon hasn't caught on to the idea yet. I wish they would find a way to let authors give their content away (if they want to) before they worry about getting "getting every book, including out-of-print titles, onto the device."

Also, people should be able to pay by the page for content rather than buy the book. Just like paying for songs instead of albums, this is the future of reading.

Re:Free content and pay by the page. (2, Insightful)

digitalchinky (650880) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038857)

Pay by the page for what exactly? And how do you know what pages you might need without a comprehensive index - and even then unless you can see what you are getting, how do you know you'll get what you want?

You don't pay for 'part of a song' - likewise, I can think of no logical place you might pay for 'part of a book' either. I'm sure you'll hit me back with a list, but seriously, it's going to be a short one.

Re:Free content and pay by the page. (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038913)

Pay by the page for what exactly? And how do you know what pages you might need without a comprehensive index - and even then unless you can see what you are getting, how do you know you'll get what you want?

Give the razor for free, sell the blades. Give the index for free, sell the pages. Hide all but the heading and first paragraph of every unpaid chapter so the reader can get an idea of what pages they need.

Re:Free content and pay by the page. (1)

ubrgeek (679399) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039057)

I'm sure someone else posted this and I can't find it, but you do pay for 'part of a song' - if you're buying a ringtone. If that's the only part that you need (i.e. you don't want the whole song) then it fulfills what you want. That said, I agree. I'm not sure why you'd want only some of the pages ... unless Amazon has started selling porn for the Kindle? ;)

Re:Free content and pay by the page. (3, Funny)

shoemilk (1008173) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039323)

Also, people should be able to pay by the page for content rather than buy the book. Just like paying for songs instead of albums, this is the future of reading.

Are you serious? What sort of sick demented world do you live in? Why would someone want to buy one page unless it were for a sample, which is usually given out free?

Aside from the above speculation, here are ten solid, in-depth, good reasons why you're completely wrong. 1. Y

Thank you for purchasing part one of this post! Please click confirm to buy part two for an only additional $.99! (Parts 3~37 are an additional fee)

Confirm

Why would anyone buy a kindle? (0, Flamebait)

JoshDmetro (1478197) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037393)

Come on batteries to read a book (well maybe at night time, saves on flashlight batteries). The kindle is for selfish people. Now when I buy a paper be it the Times or whatever; when I am done with it I leave it at the diner or coffee shop someone else get to read it. (Hmm wonder if that copyright infringement) Then when it gets thrown out some bum get to use it for a pillow and/or blanket or some such. (Can you imagine a bum cuddled up to an old Kindle not to warm I'd imagine)

Re:Why would anyone buy a kindle? (1)

HAKdragon (193605) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039587)

Come on batteries to read a book (well maybe at night time, saves on flashlight batteries).
 
The Kindle, like just about all eBooks, uses an e-paper screen, which doesn't have its own light source. You would still need to provide your own. Not sure if the glare from a flashlight would be a problem though.

WHY NIGGERS HATE ASPIRIN (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27037399)

1. It's white.
2. It works.
3. They're too proud to pick the cotton out of the bottle.

Re:WHY NIGGERS HATE ASPIRIN (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27038625)

lol

Re:WHY NIGGERS HATE ASPIRIN (0, Offtopic)

intheshelter (906917) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038981)

How is this even remotely funny and why is it still on the site? I don't mind disagreement with anyone, but this post simply throws up a racist joke for no reason. Somebody delete this crap.

Re:WHY NIGGERS HATE ASPIRIN (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27039223)

Dude, That cotton bit was pretty funny. C'mon.

So wait, (1)

eggman9713 (714915) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037419)

Is this a review of the Kindle itself? Or the Kindle experience? Seems to be a bit wishy washy to me.

Re:So wait, (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038549)

If you had taken the trouble to RTFA (!) you would see that the author does indeed review the product, in fact largely favourably, with the exception of his reaction to its lack of robustness.

I actually just tried the Kindle II... (5, Interesting)

solder_fox (1453905) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037421)

A friend of mine bought one for reading in the subway. He finds it great, and he points out correctly that for avid readers it's wonderful just from the standpoint of space conservation. For Manhattan-dwellers especially, that's a major selling point.

It's a pretty good product--the only bad thing about it is from the publisher's standpoint, since IIRC it requires you to prepare your books in a new format (which is a not-insignificant undertaking) and Amazon has near-complete control over the pricing structure. (The pricing structure thing hurts authors, too.)

Countering that is that it will make some books more accessible. It doesn't take much work to get books now, but the ability to have them in front of you and easily readable right away combined with sample chapters gives you at least part of the convenience of actually walking into a bookstore, only you get it anyplace you can get the data connection.

I can't speak to the durability, though, because it's still a new toy. Give it a year and see how it holds up in different conditions. But overall, this is definitely a shiny product, in the good sense as opposed to the coefficient-of-specular-reflection-is-too-high sense. It'll probably really help Amazon once the economy picks back up, since more people will have the income to spend on a Kindle and they'll have had a chance to improve it.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (3, Insightful)

iYk6 (1425255) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037481)

the only bad thing about it is ... Amazon has near-complete control over the pricing structure. (The pricing structure thing hurts authors, too.)

Doesn't this thing read pdfs and/or text files? If so, can't the authors sell their books from any website they want, for whatever price they want? Exactly how does Amazon exert control over the pricing structure?

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (2, Informative)

d12v10 (1046686) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037561)

You're forced to create an account and then send pdfs and text files to an email associated with the account for a fee ($0.20 per file or something like that). It's difficult, and Amazon has everything locked down.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

sdnick (1025630) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037635)

Doesn't the Kindle have a USB port? Can't this be used to load PDFs and files in other formats? If not, what is the USB port for?

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (5, Informative)

JamesTheBoilermaker (822315) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037713)

You can't load pdfs directly on to the Kindle but instead of sending the file to youraccount@kindle.com for $0.10, you can send it to youraccount@free.kindle.com and it will send you back a link to the converted file which you can download and load on to you Kindle via USB. You can load text files directly on to it. Also, Kindle supports unencrypted Mobi-pocket format, so you can use any available mobi creator to convert pdfs and other documents.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (4, Insightful)

daniorerio (1070048) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037835)

So, we are all waiting for the Chinese version of this device without all the lockdown and including all the obvious useful fetures?

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (2, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038885)

I thought we were waiting for the Linux-based firmware that would let you run arbitrary programs so you can read all the formats they don't support.

runs linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27039573)

It already runs linux...

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (2, Informative)

HAKdragon (193605) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039941)

Well, considering the Kindle already runs Linux, I'd say it's more of a matter of time until somebody figures "something" out.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (5, Insightful)

sdnick (1025630) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037951)

So it can't read PDFs. Big negative IMHO - I wouldn't mind having something like this (at $150 max) to stash dozens of technical references and white papers on. But I'm not going to go through the hassle of converting every PDF I'd want to store.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (2, Interesting)

value_added (719364) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038309)

So it can't read PDFs. Big negative IMHO - I wouldn't mind having something like this (at $150 max) to stash dozens of technical references and white papers on. But I'm not going to go through the hassle of converting every PDF I'd want to store.

Nice to someone draw attention to the fact that paperback novels aren't the sum total of everything people spend their time reading. Given that popular fiction seem to be Kindle's focus, the rest of the world will have to wait for something else altogether.

Which is a shame, really. The ideal reading device should accommodate anything and everything in written form. That would include technical papers, manuals, textbooks, and newspapers, among others, in addition to what's currently being read by airline passengers trying to pass the time with their Kindles.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27039155)

Poetry, drama, scholarly monographs, academic journals ... you seem to have a good handle on two types of written text: technical writing at the engineering level (but not scientific level) and the stuff you can buy at an airport kiosk. Hey, you're the one who claimed Amazon wasn't thinking of anything other than paperback novels; I'm just saying.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (2, Insightful)

dargaud (518470) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038409)

I have always hated PDFs for one single reason: they don't flow and fill the page width. If you have a tiny screen (or wont to keep your documentation window narrow next to your larger application window) you either have to learn to read with a sub-pixel font or constantly go left/right on every line. That SUCKS. So converting to a _better_ format makes perfect sense.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (3, Informative)

pimp0r (1030222) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039111)

I think you've missed the whole point of PDFs. They are meant to preserve formatting.

People use PDFs for the same reason they don't use HTML or plain text for said documents, and vice versa.

Now if the documents you want are perfectly readable as plain text you should blame the source for using an unsuitable format, rather than hating the format for doing what it is supposed to do.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

OpenGLFan (56206) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039765)

I'm in the same boat -- I got a PRS-500 for reading papers on the shuttle bus to grad school. The screen was a bit small (or I'm a bit nearsighted, one), but other than that it worked great.

Now, a couple of years later, the non-(easily)-user-replaceable battery is dying, and I'm trying to decide whether to try to swap batteries, spring for a 505, spring for a 700, or get a Kindle 2. Thanks to earlier posters, I know I *don't* have to pay $0.10 to convert all my .pdfs over, so now I'm trying to decide which to get. (Or one of the other readers; call me crazy, but I read lots and LOTS of technical pdfs on the couch in my new job, and I always hanker for a slightly bigger screen. Or a stick to beat all the people who still insist on two-column format.)

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

DetpackJump (1219130) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039897)

You wouldn't want to use the Kindle for technical documentation anyway. It's designed around documents where you start at the beginning and go page by page until the end.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27039739)

I've had the sony ereader for a while now and I found an excellent cross-platform program to manage my books.

Calibre [kovidgoyal.net]

It has various cool features like conversion of formats and just recently started adding support for the Kindle 2 I think. the best feature, in my opinion, is the rss feed downloader. I've even contributed a 'recipe' for a favourite site to it's repository.

Now when people say "the technology isn't quite there yet" etc. I think twice. I can't imagine buying a newspaper ever again when every day Calibre downloads every news story off the bbc website, various other news sites, hardware sites and I read it very comfortably (bearing in mind the sony ereader is old technology now).

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

genghisjahn (1344927) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039989)

That is not true. A free download from Mobi PocketCreator will convert your documents (many kinds) to the kindle format. You then drag and drop when your Kindle is connected via USB. http://www.mobipocket.com/en/DownloadSoft/default.asp?Language=EN [mobipocket.com]

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

smart.id (264791) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037647)

What do you mean by "locked down"? Do they check the txt/pdf to see if it's a copyrighted work?

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27038483)

...

Are you serious?

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (4, Informative)

Zerth (26112) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037723)

You're forced to create an account and then send pdfs and text files to an email associated with the account for a fee ($0.20 per file or something like that). It's difficult, and Amazon has everything locked down.

.

You obviously never even looked at the website, let alone read a review of the thing.

I think they're kind of lame(no removeable storage, non-removable battery), but my wife recently got one, so I know that:

A)You can(not must) send PDFs to an account for translation. It costs $.10 if you send it via the cell network(duh, that costs money). If you transfer them by computer, it costs $0.00 My wife, being an artsy type, has the Adobe suite, so she just converts them herself if they aren't just used as an image container.

B)You can just plug it in a USB port and copy plain text to it like a thumb drive, albeit with no meaningful folder managment. She has loaded it up with a bunch of ebooks she already had in plain text, plus the aforementioned converted PDFs.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (3, Interesting)

Kooonsty (1365027) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039707)

You're forced to create an account and then send pdfs and text files to an email associated with the account for a fee ($0.20 per file or something like that). It's difficult, and Amazon has everything locked down.

.

You obviously never even looked at the website, let alone read a review of the thing.

I think they're kind of lame(no removeable storage, non-removable battery), but my wife recently got one, so I know that:

A)You can(not must) send PDFs to an account for translation. It costs $.10 if you send it via the cell network(duh, that costs money). If you transfer them by computer, it costs $0.00 My wife, being an artsy type, has the Adobe suite, so she just converts them herself if they aren't just used as an image container.

B)You can just plug it in a USB port and copy plain text to it like a thumb drive, albeit with no meaningful folder managment. She has loaded it up with a bunch of ebooks she already had in plain text, plus the aforementioned converted PDFs.

Something seems very wrong with the fact that a whole novel can be sent over a cell network for $0.10, but a text message of under 200 characters cost double that.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

slyrat (1143997) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039873)

You're forced to create an account and then send pdfs and text files to an email associated with the account for a fee ($0.20 per file or something like that). It's difficult, and Amazon has everything locked down.

This is the very reason I got a sony reader over the kindle. Still very strange that the sony product is much more open to formats, and gives you much more control over what you put on it. The wireless connectivity is the only thing I miss, but the ease of reading anything along with plenty of rss feed converters for it make it plenty better.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

Fizzol (598030) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038155)

It's $0.10 per document. Amazon has never actually charged this fee, and customer service says they have no plans to at this time. If you're worried that you *might* get charged, you can instead send your files Amazon for free conversion and have the documents mailed back to you. For native document formats like text you can copy things over via the usb cable.

Me, I just email everything to my Kindle. It's not in the least difficult, (a barely trained monkey could do it) and the Kindle is far from "locked down."

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

digitalchinky (650880) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038897)

If you have to "Email" your stuff to it, it's locked down. Period. Denial is step 1 of the process sir.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

pete_p (70057) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039075)

You don't have to email your stuff to it. You can connect a USB cable and copy compatible files over that way.

Reading is step 0 of the process, sir.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27039315)

You don't have to email it. You can email it. There are plenty of other pieces of conversion software (mobicreator, calibre, mobiperl tools, etc.), some of which work better than others.

I also wrote up Bibliorize [bibliorize.com] as an open source tool which lets you download arbitrary web pages for offline viewing.

The books you buy from amazon are quite DRM'd. That aside, things aren't locked down.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

TechForensics (944258) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037629)

Note, an Ipaq is smaller, and you can convert any text on your computer with Overdrive ReaderWorks to .lit format for use with Microsoft Reader. I have read 300 books this way in the last 3 years. The Ipaq is cheaper than the Kindle, too. And did I mention it has Wi-Fi internet access and plays mp3s like an iPod too?

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27037687)

I feel like iPaq has lasted for a long time as one of these "it can do it better than" some portable personal device. I feel like i'm floating right now....

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27037719)

I recently tried a Kindle 2. The Kindle is much more *readable* than your back-lit display. The E-ink screen does not cause more stain on your eyes than reading a normal book. It's passively lit, and it looks very good. It takes a while to refresh a while page, but that's a small price to pay if you're reading pages at a time. And the E-ink retains the image when the device is off, so it's using no power most of the time.
I've tried reading on my iPhone. It just doesn't work. Good for short term, terrible for long term reading.

Oh, and it plays mp3's and has a (primitive) web browser over 3G.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

Fizzol (598030) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038101)

Having owned both an Ipaq and a Kindle, the difference between the two devices is simple enormous. The Kindle is FAR superior to the Ipaq as a book reader. Also the Kindle can access the Internet via whispernet and plays mp3s just fine, but it's still mostly a damn fine book reader.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (4, Informative)

Nyeerrmm (940927) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037753)

From experience with the Kindle 1, which I've had for ~ 6 months, its a very durable device with the exception of direct pressure on the screen. I've accidentally spritzed it with water and soap, so as long as you're not giving it a bath it does fine. I stick it in my backpack on the way to school and takes a fair amount of abuse that way.

However, the one sticky point is that the screen is very susceptible to direct pressure on the screen. Because the e-ink relies on a glass backing for its operation, if you lean too heavily on it, it will shatter and the screen will be non-functional. This happened to mine when I had it on my bed and it disappeared under some blankets and I put my palm down on it crawling back into bed. Fortunately, I had a very good experience with Amazon customer service and received a new one within a few days. Keeping it in its leather carrying case and being aware of it eliminates those problems for the most part, and it can take quite a bit of abuse with just minimal precautions.

With how thin the new version is, and the fact that the case doesn't come standard, I wonder if the screen isn't more durable on Kindle 2. Can't say I'd want to test it myself though...

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (-1, Troll)

Adult film producer (866485) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038045)

However, the one sticky point is that the screen is very susceptible to direct pressure on the screen.

So... rubbing my dick on it probably isn't a good idea?

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27039119)

However, the one sticky point is that the screen is very susceptible to direct pressure on the screen.

So... rubbing my dick on it probably isn't a good idea?

Not an issue. It takes several pounds of pressure to break the glass, so your half-ounce dick won't be a problem.

Of course, you'd better be careful not to crush it with your gut while trying to reach the screen with your 2.5" penis.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

slyrat (1143997) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039805)

However, the one sticky point is that the screen is very susceptible to direct pressure on the screen.

I had the same problem with my sony reader (prs 505). If you look on amazon there are several good reader cases. I use the book armor - ecaddycase.com. It can take a lot of beatings and I haven't had any trouble yet.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

claire_rand (1464671) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038289)

make a "rugged" version of this, the sort of thing you can drop 6' or so onto concrete and have it bounce. more expensive yes. target this to technical people as a way to carry documentation with them, the wireless bit allows a custom 'server' to be used (another product for a partner) to act as a documentation server. now your field reps *always* have the most up to date docs with them, anywhere. years back I worked as a tech, I'd have killed for something like this to replace a huge number of printed manuals that no body bothered to carry around due to shear size. I think they are missing a trick here

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27038367)

The Kindle is particularly good for researchers. I highlight text and it's put in a file I can download, saving me the chore of grinding data into a file by hand.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

yoshi_mon (172895) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038613)

He finds it great, and he points out correctly that for avid readers it's wonderful just from the standpoint of space conservation.

Part of me, the part that has been using my PDA in this capacity for many years now, wonders why this was never used as a selling point for them. Given that early PDA sales were poor at best.

But the other more cynical part of me knows that it would have only forced the DRM/fair use/format debate sooner. Not that we seem to be much better equipped to deal with it these days.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27038817)

since IIRC it requires you to prepare your books in a new format (which is a not-insignificant undertaking)

Pure baloney! The text is already digital, they merely need to export it to the require format for whatever container they intend to DRM their product.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

Chaos Incarnate (772793) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039139)

Kindle books use the same Mobipocket format that publishers were already preparing their books in.

Re:I actually just tried the Kindle II... (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039225)

the only bad thing about it is from the publisher's standpoint, since IIRC it requires you to prepare your books in a new format (which is a not-insignificant undertaking) and Amazon has near-complete control over the pricing structure. (The pricing structure thing hurts authors, too.)

I would have thought that from a publisher's standpoint that the Kindle being proprietary and tied to a store is a VERY bad thing. It might not seem so in the short term, but in the long term if the device took off it would be. Amazon will become like Apple, using its mass market reach to impose intolerable terms and conditions on publishers. Books and media are content, and I would expect publishers to have as many people paying to read that content as possible through any delivery mechanism. Tying yourself to one outlet is suicidal in the long term.

I wonder why publishers don't sit down together and produce their own open platform reader format and infrastructure for managing keys and content. It's probably the only thing that will drag e-books out of the sewer its in at the moment. Consumers should have the confidence of being able to buy books from any store and read them on any device which implements the format. It's the sort of thing that needs to happen for e-books to stand any chance of mass adoption.

screens and replacement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27037443)

kindle 1 screen rocks and has no such problem.. sad if they use a crappier screen coating...

it has a 30 day no questions asked return policy... is the article poster a retarded person? return it...

FTA (2, Insightful)

drDugan (219551) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037483)

'' Once your promotion expires, seven day home delivery of the New York Times costs $58.06 per month or $697 annually. A Kindle 2 sells for $359. The New York Times via Kindle costs just $13.99 per month or $168. You can buy a Kindle 2 with a one year subscription to The Times for only $527. Then, you can use the $169 savings to take your friend out to a very nice dinner - the one whose sister has the dogs who get their waste dumped in your blue plastic Times delivery bags (I guess I'll find out soon if she reads my blog when she asks about that dinner).

BusinessInsider mused that it costs The Times twice as much money each year to provide home delivery than it would to buy every subscriber a Kindle: "What we're trying to say is that as a technology for delivering the news, newsprint isn't just expensive and inefficient; it's laughably so." ''

Wow. That puts the kindle price into perspective!

Also, who spents 700 a year on newspapers any more? News, even good news, is no-cost online, right?

Re:FTA (1)

smart.id (264791) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037707)

Wow. That puts the kindle price into perspective!

Also, who spents 700 a year on newspapers any more? News, even good news, is no-cost online, right?

Some people like thumbing through the paper physically, reading it front to back, that whole process. However, I think in time people are just going to get used to reading it on their computers.

I think that e-ink might be easier on the eyes or something. It might be nice for reading. End post.

Re:FTA (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27037929)

I can't share my Kindle newspapers with my cow-orkers. I buy the physical paper, but once I read through it I'm done - so other people in my office get to read it.

Also, I can cut out articles from the physical paper.

Re:FTA (0, Offtopic)

LaughingCoder (914424) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039095)

Cows can't read anyhow.

Re:FTA (1, Funny)

TheLink (130905) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037903)

Newsprint can't be that expensive.

Over here in this 3rd world developing country, a newspaper's list price is about USD0.30. And most of them have as many pages as the NYT (if not more).

They're not as thick as the UK's Sunday Times - which has been rumoured to be lethal to small dogs, when launched by a speeding paper-boy.

Online cost of NYT 527-359= 168= USD 0.46/day
"Paper" cost of NYT = 697-168= USD 1.45/day

Why is it so expensive? 1.45 a day.

Delivery might be expensive if say the subscriber is in Hawaii or Alaska. But couldn't you just send the NYT via the Interent to a local printer to print it?

Re:FTA (1)

Zerth (26112) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038013)

NYTs delivered where I live are printed by the regional newspaper. NYT bought them a press just for that purpose, although they use it on the side for other things.

Re:FTA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27039077)

Newsprint can't be that expensive.

Online cost of NYT 527-359= 168= USD 0.46/day
"Paper" cost of NYT = 697-168= USD 1.45/day

Why is it so expensive? 1.45 a day.

Because they're not selling it just as a newspaper. Duh. It isn't worth anything as news.

Being used to wrap fish and line the bottom of birdcages and litter boxes makes it far more valuable.

Re:FTA (1)

paintswithcolour (929954) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038379)

Except when you leave the Kindle on a train.

Replacing a newspaper is somewhat cheaper.

Re:FTA (1)

riperrin (1310447) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039511)

My books and newspapers don't run out of battery power, or have to be plugged in as such it has 100% uptime. Also I don't have to pay to recharge them.

Re:FTA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27039683)

The New York Times is bad news.

One possibility... (1)

denzacar (181829) | more than 5 years ago | (#27040015)

Also, who spents 700 a year on newspapers any more?

People who know how to spell "spends"?

m'od 0p (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27037495)

Why should they replace your Kindle? (1, Insightful)

ahabswhale (1189519) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037543)

You assert it was easily scratched yet you do not know how it was scratched. If you don't know how it was scratched, then how can you assert it was easily done? You didn't properly protect the device so I don't see how it's Amazon's fault. You should get the extended warranty so that they will fix it or quit whining. Either way, I don't care.

Re:Why should they replace your Kindle? (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038671)

Either way, I don't care.

Then why did you bother posting? It is perfectly admissible for the blogger to comment on the product's durability. Whether or not you are interested is of no interest to anyone else.

Scratching is a valid form of artistic expression! (1, Funny)

drapeau06 (1010311) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037545)

Unfortunately, my Kindle display scratched less than 24 hours after it arrived.

What did it scratch?

Re:Scratching is a valid form of artistic expressi (3, Funny)

Renraku (518261) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037645)

I don't see this as an issue, or I would have returned my cat.

Hey, honey? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27037673)

Will you hand me the sports section to read while you browse the NYT magazine?

Hey, where's the crossword?

Re:Hey, honey? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27038707)

Crosswords magazines are like $1 each. I'm guessing that's at least 30 different crosswords, so $12 would take care of that for a whole year.

And yes, one Kindle, one copy of the NYT. I'm sure that invalidates the usefulness of this and similar devices, as well as their cost-effectiveness.

Seriously, "insightful"? I mean, "funny", I'd understand... /. can be so inane sometimes.

Re:Hey, honey? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27039013)

I like to read the news, then do the crossword and even *gasp* use the solutions shown in todays paper to see what the answers I couldn't get were from yesterdays. It's a nice little ritual, I don't see why I should change it just for some space saving. If I want a paper I'll buy a paper. If I want an e-book style reader I might buy a kindle. Please don't dictate that I should shut up and buy a kindle just for the paper. The kindle has major drawbacks for those of us who like to share the paper and do the crossword.

Seriously, "insightful"? I mean, "funny", I'd understand... /. can be so inane sometimes.

Yes, OP was 'insightful'. Unlike your trolling.

Re:Hey, honey? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27039357)

No, pay for it yourself you freeloading bum.

Re:Hey, honey? (1)

sam0737 (648914) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039927)

Will you hand me the sports section to read while you browse the NYT magazine?

The first question can be solved by buying one more kindle for yourself.

Hey, where's the crossword?

If someday it comes with annotation functionality...

Please Focus (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27037879)

That video is unwatchable ... why don't you try to focus your camera next time? and why the random use of italics in the text?

What you won't read in the New York Times: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27037935)

Gaius Baltar is a Java programmer.

an amazing product (0)

Adult film producer (866485) | more than 5 years ago | (#27037971)

amazon did a heckuva job developing a black & white handheld.... and it's only $350 ? Nice.

Re:an amazing product (4, Informative)

glwtta (532858) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038157)

Seriously? Every time with this shit?

Let me summarize the obvious: reflective display, not an LCD, ie you can actually read on it; first more-or-less practical generation of a new technology, as with everything else in the entire history of all technology, price will come down as it becomes more popular.

What is so fiendishly difficult to grasp?

Re:an amazing product (1)

Adult film producer (866485) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038355)

and... you can't read text on an LCD?

Re:an amazing product (4, Insightful)

value_added (719364) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038591)

and... you can't read text on an LCD?

LOL. Allow me to chime in with the OP for folks like you that refuse to get it.

Of course you can read text on an LCD, just like you can also read text on a CRT with 60Hz flicker, in giant lights at softball game, or hand scrawled on a bathroom wall with really bad kerning. You can also rub lemon juice on paper cuts to keep them from getting infected, but the majority of us choose not to.

The point is that e-ink is easier on the eyes, which makes what you're reading ... wait for it ... easier to read.

In Jeff Bezos' interview on The Charlie Rose show, he used a flashlight analogy, saying thta reading on a convential screen is like staring into a flashlight. The light may not be as bright as a typical flashlight, but it's a helluva lot brighter (and different) than the light reflected off a piece of paper. Or a Kindle. Ergo, Bezos opted not to use a LCD screen, while being aware of the tradeoffs of doing so. The reaction to his decision has ranged from praise to amazement to a shitload of Kindles being sold.

Re:an amazing product (1)

swillden (191260) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039177)

Whether or not reading on an LCD is painful depends on the LCD.

My REB 1100 e-book has an LCD screen and it's a pleasure to read on. It's nothing like "staring into a flashlight"; the backlight is adjustable and can be turned off entirely for many lighting conditions. In fact, for my primary reading usage I think it's a better approach than e-ink. I like to read in bed at night, and the REB's backlight set to its lowest setting is just enough to read comfortably in a dark room, but dim enough that it doesn't disturb my wife.

It also works acceptably in full sunlight, though it works better in the shade.

Good idea, but I still have hesitation re Kindle 2 (1)

John3k (1489761) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038079)

I am going to sound like a broken record. While I am very interested in Kindle 2, I am still waiting for these books to be DRM free. It's just so much easier and "thought-free" when I don't have to worry about DRM and how I use something. The higher the resolution, the better it is too. We are nowhere near true 300-dpi but that's a technical limitation at this point.

Speaking of DRM-free, Amazon does have an awesome MP3 store that is DRM-free with a large selection and often good prices. It would be nice if they had the same thing with books.

On the note about Amazon, I recently came across an interesting table that details the discounts on Amazon. Maybe someone will find it useful too. It is at http://www.uberi.com [uberi.com]

Anyway, Amazon appears to be quite serious this time. We will probably see faster advancements in this area in the near future as competition heats up.

Here is another idea, why not charge subscriptions like regular paper (in the case of NY Times) but subsize for the Kindle 2 or other ebook readers, similar to the cell phone model...

Re:Good idea, but I still have hesitation re Kindl (2, Interesting)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038733)

Amazon does have an awesome MP3 store that is DRM-free

Some of that might be true, but...

I am a longstanding customer of Amazon, and I have bought dozens of CDs through them. But the other day when I thought to buy a few tracks as MP3s, I was disappointed to get a message that the service is only available to US customers. (I am in Australia.) I can't think of a single good reason why they would need to pursue that strategy other than to enforce DRM in some way. They were happy to sell me a CD of the same thing, but they had made me grumpy, so I took my business elsewhere.

Re:Good idea, but I still have hesitation re Kindl (1)

honkycat (249849) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039035)

I don't have any inside information, but I can think of a couple very good reasons why they might not be ready to allow DRM-free MP3 downloads outside the US: non-uniform copyright laws and uncooperative copyright holders. For Amazon to actually allow MP3 downloads is not as simple as deciding they want to do it and then doing it. They need to be sure that they are not breaking copyright laws by doing so, which takes lots of lawyers lots of billable hours. They also need agreement from the copyright holders to license them to sell a downloadable copy of the MP3, which takes negotiation. If the copyright holders say no for whatever reason, their hands are tied.

It sucks, but it doesn't necessarily mean that Amazon is at fault or involved in anything more nefarious than not wanting to jeopardize their relationships with their content providers.

Kindle 3 could be amazing if... (1)

Drew Boyd (1478097) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038201)

Just received a Kindle 2 for my wife, and she loves it. I'm waiting for Kindle 3, but I hope it has a few of these innovations: http://www.innovationinpractice.com/innovation_in_practice/2009/01/the-lab-innovating-the-kindle-with-task-unification-january-2009.html [innovationinpractice.com]

Nobody is eager to try Kindle 2 (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27038901)

"I've been eager to try The New York Times on the Kindle 2"

Oh right. Like you would have been on the edge of your seat waiting for that.

Either you are a very sad person or you are involved in marketing.

The problem is Amazon (0, Troll)

castironpigeon (1056188) | more than 5 years ago | (#27038911)

I'd consider buying something like this if it wasn't through Amazon. They've screwed up orders, screwed up shipping, screwed up the Amazon Marketplace transactions, screwed up just about everything imaginable in the past. In one particularly difficult case the only way I managed to get Amazon to even tell me where my package was located was to threaten a lawsuit. I don't care how good this new technology is, I'll happily remain a luddite as long as I don't have to do any business with Amazon again.

Resolution no better than my laptop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27039131)

I looked at the photos, and the resolution is no better than my laptop's! It's like those 'HD' TVs they advertise -- their resolution is no better than my 15 year old CRT TV. Don't fall for this nonsense. What a ripoff.

Propietary Format (3, Interesting)

cervo (626632) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039175)

What if amazon goes under? All those ebooks that I may have bought will be gone. If you look at some of the music DRM services, what happens when Amazon decides not to support the format anymore?

I want an e reader because my books are piling up. But I want the same rights I get for paper books and until I get that I will not buy one. I have some books that are older than me. Now I see people with this e-reader or that e-reader and then a year or two later they have a new one and re-buy all their books.

I want all the benefits of paper books but without wasting all the space on books. Also as a society, what happens if in years people dig up our society and just find these e-readers with a proprietary format? All of our knowledge will be lost whereas with books/tablets at least they can get something to try to translate.

Re:Propietary Format (2, Informative)

NineNine (235196) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039615)

I want all the benefits of paper books but without wasting all the space on books.

Let me help... libraries... buy/sell used books... a bookcase... or, a $400 gizmo that will be useless one way or another inside of a year.

Re:Propietary Format (1)

ErikZ (55491) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039993)

What if amazon goes under? All those ebooks that I may have bought will be gone. If you look at some of the music DRM services, what happens when Amazon decides not to support the format anymore?

Yeah! I mean, what would happen if Microsoft stopped supporting .doc? Or Adobe stopped supporting the .psd format? Or Autocad stopped supporting the .DXF file format?

You do have the same rights as a paper book. For instance, moving the book over to another format. When was the last time you had a paper book reprinted on different paper and a different font? Not only did you not do this, you don't have the right to do it.

The only thing the Kindle fails at, is that paper books are far better at burning than the kindle.

you Inse8sitive clod! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27039509)

sure that by the keed to be K8eskin gone Romeo and

Some questions from a non-Kindle user. (3, Interesting)

ClemensW (835172) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039701)

I was looking into buying a Kindle as soon as it becomes available here (Rightpondia), but after reading the license agreement on Amazon, I'm not sure anymore.

Do I understand it correctly, that..
- in case the Kindle should be lost/broken or I buy a newer model, then all books are lost, too?
- in case I switch to a different brand of ebook reader, I'm stuck with a load of unreadable books?
- I cannot loan a book to a friend, except by giving him the whole device?
- I cannot try to remove the DRM, otherwise Amazon will kill my service?
- Amazon is snooping what documents I have on my reader?

If that's correct, then - sorry to say that - it looks like Amazon is telling me: "HA! WE SCREWED YOU!"

Re:Some questions from a non-Kindle user. (1)

ErikZ (55491) | more than 5 years ago | (#27039917)

- in case the Kindle should be lost/broken or I buy a newer model, then all books are lost, too?

Hey look, a FAQ:

Q: What happens if your Kindle is lost or stolen or if it breaks? Can you report it and have the email address canceled and have it disconnected from the whispernet and your Amazon account? If you buy a replacement Kindle, can you have all your documents, clippings and customizations restored through any sort of back-up of your data?

A: Yes to all of your questions. You simply go the "Mange Your Kindle" area and de-register your kindle. This disconnects your kindle from your account and does not allow anyone to access your account. All of your content is saved in your Amazon library (including bookmarks and annotations) and can be put on your new replacement Kindle. I don't believe that your "clippings" are saved though, so if you haven't backed up clippings on to your computer you will lose those.

in case I switch to a different brand of ebook reader, I'm stuck with a load of unreadable books?

The ipod sold millions of units before they had enough clout to remove the DRM. It'll happen with the Kindle too. How come no one sees the parallels on this?

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