Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

UK Government Wants To Bypass Data Protection Act

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the you-have-none dept.

Privacy 262

rar42 writes "Clause 152 of the Coroners and Justice Bill, currently being debated by the UK Parliament, would allow any Minister by order to take from anywhere any information gathered for one purpose, and use it for any other purpose. Personal information arbitrarily used without consent or even knowledge: the very opposite of 'Data Protection.' An 'Information Sharing Order', as defined in Clause 152, would permit personal information to be trafficked and abused, not only all across government and the public sector — it would also reach into the private sector. And it would even allow transfer of information across international borders. NO2ID has launched a Facebook group to challenge this threat to data protection."

cancel ×

262 comments

NIGGERS!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27046899)

It's cause the UK government is full of niggers!

Re:NIGGERS!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27046925)

It's cause the UK government is full of niggers!

The word you're looking for is terrorists.

Terrifying! (4, Insightful)

gravos (912628) | more than 5 years ago | (#27046993)

This legislation is truly terrifying. It allows the government to aggregate all data that they keep about you. It would mean that the government was exempt of the key points of the Data Protection Act.

We must do better than this.

Re:Terrifying! (4, Interesting)

conlaw (983784) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047075)

I just keep remembering that Orwell was a Brit. He may have gotten the year wrong in 1984, but it's looking more like he really understood their government.

Re:Terrifying! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047275)

what's 30 years anyway. 2014 the end of the UK.

Re:Terrifying! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047309)

Orwell was an optimist!

Re:Terrifying! (4, Informative)

orielbean (936271) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047341)

Yes, he fought on the side of communists, (Russian and International) as well as anarchists during the Spanish Civil War. Everyone who read 1984 and understood its message should also read Homage to Catalonia, his factual account of the Civil War. He knew that you could take the horrible tools of repression and what they might look like if machined in England.

Slippery Slopes (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#27046903)

Someday you people will come to assume that anything the government asks is a portal to one.

Re:Slippery Slopes (3, Funny)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047179)

A portal to a slippery slope? [penny-arcade.com]

Sounds fun!

Re:Slippery Slopes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047191)

I believe that the slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy in most cases. (To implement laws that you don't want through what? Political momentum?)

But "we people" who used to care for the freedoms we once had are unhappy when the government has a full-fledged program of video surveillance, snooping, data storage, arbitrary abduction, arbitrary handover to foreign authorities, secret courts, scare-tactics aimed at individuals, illegal invasions in the middle east, and God knows what more.

Name a calamity in the last 100 years at random. Good odds are that a government was behind it.

Re:Slippery Slopes (5, Insightful)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047319)

I believe that the slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy in most cases. (To implement laws that you don't want through what? Political momentum?)

The slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy only when it's used as deductive reasoning. But when you apply inductive reasoning, which is arguably much more applicable to politics, the slippery slope holds up nicely.

Every time A has happened, B has resulted.
If we let A happen again, B will probably happen.

Pretty rock-solid, if you ask me. If you replace A with "The government has reduced the people's right to privacy, in order to increase the government's power" and B with "The people have grown to accept their reduced rights, and the government has still wanted more power", you have the current situation.

If we (or rather, "they," as I'm not British) accept this invasion, then the government will likely be left wanting more, and the people will grow ever more complacent. It's happened every time thus far, why think that it'll be different this time?

Re:Slippery Slopes (1)

icebike (68054) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047401)

Mod parent up.

Re:Slippery Slopes (5, Insightful)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047569)

It just goes to show why the populace would fight, or at least be cautious and try to restrain govt. from pretty much ANY law they want to pass, especially with regard to police needs and personal privacy.

The govt. will never stop at the originally intended intent of the law, no matter how much they promise to limit the reach of the law for the intended use that 'everyone can agree with'.

The govt. ALWAYS will later, expand upon said law to use it in new and creative ways never intended, or try to stretch it to be used to prosecute someone that might have done something, but, there currently isn't a direct law that applies (like with that lady who harrased a teen online, and said teen killed herself).

Heck...look at the new and creative ways in the past decade that they have been expanding the RICO act which was put in place only to target the mob.

We should insist that most new laws are not only VERY narrowly defined, but that they also have sunset provisions....to give the public at least a fighting chance to not only keep laws from expanding in scope, but, to also have hope that some that are downright bad...have a chance to go away.

Re:Slippery Slopes (2, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047877)

Well if they do it like they've been doing here in the USA they'll just say it is to catch those nasty pedos and then nobody will dare speak against it. The pedo has become the 21st century boogie man, like the commie in the 50s. They tried using terrorists but found that it doesn't shut up critics like pedo does. After all surely YOU don't want to let those evil pedos get away now, do you?

Re:Slippery Slopes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047817)

The slippery slope started a long time ago. Refer back to 1994's Criminal Justice and Public Order Act [wikipedia.org] which was famous for CRIMINALIZING THE ACT OF DANCING TO REPETITIVE BEATS IN PUBLIC. It also contained some gems like the ability for police to "infer meaning from your silence as a suspect" and to have greater power in taking samples of your bodily fluids.

People DID take to the streets in the UK over this law. It was NOT struck down. The slope has only gotten worse and worse and worse.

Re:Slippery Slopes (2, Insightful)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047907)

Every time A has happened, B has resulted.
If we let A happen again, B will probably happen.

Pretty rock-solid, if you ask me.

Well, remind me not to in the future. This is certainly not rock solid. You assume (like all people who use the slippery slope argument in this context) that people will take any abuse from the government just because they take a little abuse from the government (assuming, of course, that this is abuse, and not people feeling insecure and running to the government for help), that means they'll take any abuse from the government. I might be able to swallow a mouthful of sea water when I'm at the beach, but that doesn't mean I'll be able to finish the rest of the ocean.

It's a fallacy, pure and simple. It's an argument based on very shaky intuition based on small, trivial cases (where relevant variables do not change as a result of A happening), but fails to hold for most situations in life.

Re:Slippery Slopes (4, Insightful)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 5 years ago | (#27048263)

Every time the Sun has set, it has risen.
The Sun set a few hours ago for me, yet I'm confident that it will rise again.

I don't need a deductive proof to know it.

Or another example, if I flip a coin and have it land heads 100 times in a row, I can be pretty confident that if I flip it again, it will land on heads again. "Gamblers' Fallacy!" you might mistakenly claim. But it's not... the odds a of a fair coin landing on heads a hundred times in a row are on the order of 1 in 10^30. More likely, I have found a biased coin.

To consider your "gulp of saltwater at the ocean" example, you are thinking only of an isolated incident. That doesn't make a pattern. Now, if you swallowed a mouthful of saltwater every single time you went to the beach, twenty times in a row, then yes, I'd say it's likely that you will swallow yet another on your 21st visit.

Deductive logic is great for mathematicians. For everything else, inductive logic is our best tool.

Re:Slippery Slopes (2, Interesting)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047999)

I think what is missing from the current picture, or any picture from around the world was implied by the war in Iraq, or at least by some of those perpetuating it: If you show people some freedom they will naturally grab hold of it and demand democracy and freedom for themselves. What is unknown is what it takes to move a westernized populace to revolt en mass. What amount of salt must a western government grind with it's boots into the wounds of its citizens rights before they revolt with guns, bombs, and beheadings? How far are we from that point? What revealed lie or uncovered atrocity against civil rights will be required to bring armed revolution to the front pages of newspapers around the world. What manner of indignation will it take to push the people into forcibly retaking government and reducing its size one head at a time?

These are the questions that must be pondered mightily in the halls of power. These are the questions that we the people should be looking for the government's preparation against. When the government is shown to be preparing for it, it's already time to be shooting at government loyalists.

Ask yourself, will it take only one head? Three heads? How many will be required to satisfy the people and the world that there has been a change of management? How do we in the US simply get rid of the federal government? Declare it null and void and fight off any who argue? Whose brother do you shoot? Whose father? If not bullets, what?

Now is the time to join politically active groups who want real change, change you can be part of and not just change you can believe in. You can believe all change once it happens; both good and bad. What we want is to be part of the change, change that benefits us all, not just corporations and pseudo fascist bureaucrats.

How much more will you take? How much more can you take?

âoeThere are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.â
â" Ed Howdershelt

Time gentlemen, please. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27046921)

Does the revolution start before or after chuckin'-out time?

People of the UK - just give up! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27046953)

If half of the "UK is out to get it's citizens" articles here are to be believed - you might as well give up and get out as it appears that the fascists have taken over the UK government and nothing you can do will make it otherwise short of a revolution.

Re:People of the UK - just give up! (4, Interesting)

Valdrax (32670) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047339)

If half of the "UK is out to get it's citizens" articles here are to be believed - you might as well give up and get out as it appears that the fascists have taken over the UK government and nothing you can do will make it otherwise short of a revolution.

Or just challenge it in the European Court of Human Rights. They're likely to view such a change as a clear violation of the Data Protection Directive unless they think they can seriously walk such broad lifting of protections under the exemptions. [cdt.org]

You have to be joking don't you? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27048617)

Out current NuLab Government just ignores anything they say.
Take the ruling about DNA etc made at the back end of last year.
Wacky Jacqui is just ignoring it. She says there will have to be a change in the law.
It is perfectly easy to add an ammendment to a bill going through Parliament or even do it by executive order in the interim while they wait for a law change.

Do they do this? Not a chance.
This bunch of 'Plonkers' are total control freaks. They want to know everything we do at all times. No privacy for the masses while they can hide all their excesses with impunity. Sort of sounds like the USSR jusr before their empire crumbled.

Remember at their head is 'el Gordo', the saviour of the world economy. Yeah Right.
Most of the MP's in charge are going to be out on their ears at the next election (provided they don't change the law in the meantime) so they are just fiddling while the UK burns. With all the news attention on the Economic Meltdown it is only too easy for them to slip out bad news unnoticed (just like 11-Sept-2001)

Only the Lib-dems are saying the right things about undoing this mess but they are unlikely to get elected to power. The Tories are certainly committed to cancelling ID Cards but I'm not sure about all this other stuff.

Remember, that it is now a possible Terrorist Act if you take a photo of a Policeman anywhere, anytime.
I'm posting as AC as I don't want Special Branch knocking my door down at 04:00 tomorrow morning.

Re:People of the UK - just give up! (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047435)

You forget, we never elected the current administration in the first place. Fortunately, we will certainly get a chance to unelect them in the fairly near future.

Perhaps, in the spirit of the "changing the law to get one person is OK because public opinion that we've stirred up is against him" news articles we've seen this week, the next administration could change the law retrospectively so we could try the current lot for crimes against humanity?

Re:People of the UK - just give up! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047555)

If half of the "UK is out to get it's citizens" articles here are to be believed - you might as well give up and get out as it appears that the fascists have taken over the UK government and nothing you can do will make it otherwise short of a revolution.

Different AC here. I'd just like to add my 2 cents.

If half of the "UK is out to get it's citizens" articles here are to be believed then the next time one of our posters from the UK feels the need to post something snarky about the United States' policies they need to shut the fuck up and mind their own damn business. We get tired of people pointing out that "You've got a mote in your eye Yank." as they stumble around with a telephone pole protruding from their eye socket as they smash Ye Olde China Shoppe to hell and gone.

A facebook group? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27046965)

because we all know how well respected they are...

Re:A facebook group? (3, Informative)

owlnation (858981) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047279)

True. Protesting on Facebook works on Facebook -- hence the Facebook protests that occur every other week about some trivial change to something on the site.

No2ID have the right idea. But... they really, really need to get their PR machine working. There's next to nothing ever mentioned about them anywhere. They need to be organizing much more high profile stuff. They need to be getting in the press regularly and frequently.

Having a Facebook group is fine, but it will achieve nothing by itself. Get it together people, because you do have a lot of support, you just need to channel it much, much better than you are currently doing.

Re:A facebook group? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047483)

No2ID have the right idea. But... they really, really need to get their PR machine working. [...] They need to be organizing much more high profile stuff. They need to be getting in the press regularly and frequently.

I don't know which press you've been reading, but NO2ID have been mentioned in just about every article on anything related to this subject that I've seen for the past several years. I'd guess only Liberty manage to attract more coverage opposing these issues, and even that might not be true any more.

Re:A facebook group? (1)

Hordeking (1237940) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047687)

No2ID have the right idea. But... they really, really need to get their PR machine working. There's next to nothing ever mentioned about them anywhere. They need to be organizing much more high profile stuff. They need to be getting in the press regularly and frequently.

That's a major affirmative.

I'm in the US and I've attempted to contact them a couple of times about potentially expanding to help fight similar foolishness in the US. After all, it seems like whatever one idiot English-speaking country does, the rest soon follow, whether or not it's a sensible idea. Noone ever got back to me.

Perhaps No2ID is actually an MI6 honeypot operation.

Re:A facebook group? (1)

Tensor (102132) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047735)

My thoughts exactly ...

Way to take this seriously and be firmly opposed ... a facebook group ? WTF ... why not protest on twitter for that matter??

Evidently people in the UK are way too polite, ideally they should protest at Parliament's doorstep....

oh the irony (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27046997)

of protesting privacy on a companies site that base their revenue (and databases) on people handing them private data.

facebook isnt worth million$ for their pretty graphics

oh noes the databases! (5, Insightful)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047033)

And the morons choose to protest on facebook, so that anyone and everyone can see who you are and it's stored in one of the very databases this kind of act is targeted at.

not to mention that if your level of protest is a few mouse clicks, no one is going to take you seriously.

Re:oh noes the databases! (3, Insightful)

andy_t_roo (912592) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047303)

you could argue that non-anonymously protesting something like this shows the event is a bit more significant that a few mouse clicks -- if these people are right about what they are protesting, then their name would end up in a database of "people known to object to government activities" which can then be shared around.

i agree that objecting to other things via facebook isn't that significant (if you care send an email, or even better write the email, but print it out and post it), but publicly protesting potential privacy breaches?

Re:oh noes the databases! (1)

Tensor (102132) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047753)

LOL i did not thought of this ... just thought that protesting on facebook was childish and stupid ... forgot about it being public and personal ...

So summing up ... to protest against public misuse of private databases they decide to make a private database of people protesting against public misuse of private databases ... BRILLIANT, at least it shows a highly evolved sense of ironic humor

Raise your hand... (4, Insightful)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047047)

...if you didn't see this coming. I don't think anyone believed for a minute that any government worker would idly sit on a data goldmine, and not utilize to its full capability. Which is why the proper response to any request for linking databases or collecting any data outside of that necessary for filing charges is "Are you crazy?"

I'd also like to point out that facebook groups are the new Internet petitions: completely meaningless. Either call or mail your representative, or take it like a good consumer.

Re:Raise your hand... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047071)

I'd also like to point out that facebook groups are the new Internet petitions: completely meaningless.

Ha! Wrong - and to prove it, I've started a facebook group: NeutronCowboy is Wrong [facebook.com]

Re:Raise your hand... (3, Interesting)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047161)

I don't think anyone believed for a minute that any government worker would idly sit on a data goldmine, and not utilize to its full capability.

They can't. Not with the Tabloid newspapers screaming "Something Must Be Done" every time some brat drinks themselves to death, or a knife is drawn outside of a nightclub.

The British public support this measure and others like it every single morning when they buy sensationalist, right wing papers whose sole objective seems to be to prevent the Government from acting in any kind of reasonable or rational way. Hence CCTV mania, databases and ID cards.

People are not oblivious to this. You must understand that most people in the UK want this. England has always been a very right wing country, and its press and politics reflects that. The only thing keeping the country sane at this point is the BBC and the conservative upper classes. May the gods help us all.

Re:Raise your hand... (2, Insightful)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047199)

when they buy sensationalist, right wing papers

Yes, because The Guardian immune from sensationalism. I'm not even British and I can make this comment!

There is hope for me about the UK. People are starting to realize that the government isn't looking out for their best interests, especially among the younger generations.

Re:Raise your hand... (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047299)

In the end, stuff like this amounts to a revolution across many countries, and the UK could certainly be the one to incite one. A global depression is absolutely enough to be a tipping point.

I think the question is whether the world "violent" will come before the revolution or not, and whether it will have to be, for that matter.

Re:Raise your hand... (1, Flamebait)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047327)

The UK could be a republic before Australia. That would be embarrassing!

Re:Raise your hand... (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047609)

"I think the question is whether the world "violent" will come before the revolution or not, and whether it will have to be, for that matter."

I think that is pretty much impossible....they have already taken your guns over there in the UK, haven't they?

So much for the threat of violence.

Re:Raise your hand... (3, Insightful)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047709)

Don't forget that the government even wants to ban kitchen knives! [bbc.co.uk]

All for the sake of reducing "knife violence".

Remember folks: "gun violence" and "knife violence" are already illegal. In every jurisdiction in the U.S., there's already a law against "assault with a deadly weapon". I'm sure that U.K. jurisdictions have a similar law.

Re:Raise your hand... (1)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 5 years ago | (#27048429)

I don't think I'd care for the kind of revolution [schoolnet.co.uk] a depression might bring on. And now we got an American doing the same kind of rabble rousing.

Re:Raise your hand... (1)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047859)

There is hope for me about the UK. People are starting to realize that the government isn't looking out for their best interests, especially among the younger generations.

There is no hope.

Sometimes things just need to get so bad that people want to leave and go someplace else. Then the people who control those people put up 25ft concrete walls surrounding them and shoot anyone trying to get out.

After awhile, the economy goes to shit, and the standard of living plummets. The young listen to the old about how it used to be different and look over the wall at where things are better. If it is really bad, then the young get together and conspire as to how to change things.

One of two outcomes occurs. Either the whole society collapses and becomes a purely academic pursuit for the anthropologists and archeologists in the centuries and millenniums to come, or this is a blood soaked revolution in which the people that are in the control sector of the population are marched out into the streets and violently killed.

This has happened before, it will happen again, and your only HOPE is that we might just fucking start learning from it. However, I doubt even that.

Facebook will not change the government's idealogy here. Marching them to the gallows will start changing things really damn quick.

Take a look at France and the guillotine :) "But WAIT!!! Let them eat cake! You poor peasants, just eat the fucking cake!!!! It was the OTHER guys!!!"

Re:Raise your hand... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047283)

The British public support this measure and others like it every single morning when they buy sensationalist, right wing papers whose sole objective seems to be to prevent the Government from acting in any kind of reasonable or rational way. Hence CCTV mania, databases and ID cards.

The British public do NOT support these kinds of measures. They only think they do because The Sun tells them so. Most of the people in the UK are brainless SkyTV addicted reality tv watching idiots (very much like the Nascar/reality tv watching rednecks in the states). The Sun prints something and they believe it because they want to fit in, are too lazy to think for themselves and believe that everyone else feels the same way. If they ever actually discussed these issues or even saw other real people (reality tv is not real people) they'd find that others dont approve of these measures.

Re:Raise your hand... (1)

owlnation (858981) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047331)

The only thing keeping the country sane at this point is the BBC and the conservative upper classes. May the gods help us all.

I'm concerned that you feel the BBC are some sort of beacon of hope. I see them as more the organ of the state. There's next to nothing about the erosion of people's rights on the BBC. There's no critical investigations of the effectiveness of CCTV nor any other measures. There's not even the slightest hint that we may be doomed by Jaquboots Smith, Jackboots Straw, or Gordon Brown-shirt.

I think you are wrong about the right wing press too. The Daily Mail and Telegraph are highly critical of the Big Brother state. The Guardian, however, isn't at all in any way.

I think the vast majority of the people in the UK do not want government to have this kind of power -- Sun readers included. The vast majority also, most certainly, want the Neues Arbeit Regime out of power as fast as possible. Something they are, of course, refusing to do.

Re:Raise your hand... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27048721)

"The Guardian, however, isn't at all in any way."

What utter bollocks.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/civil-liberties

The Daily Mail piss and moan about the "nanny state" enough, granted. But that's because there's a Labour government in power right now. If (when) the Tories were in power, they'd be pulling the same shit and the Mail would be praising them for it.

The Daily Mail are as much a part of the problem as anything. Their fear-mongering reactionary and sensationalist stories about immigrants coming over here to steal our jawbs, blow up our tourist attractions and eat our children only serve to misinform the public on this sort of legislation.

As for the BBC... They have some superb services, but I agree, like media company, we need to be cautious on what information we digest from them.

Re:Raise your hand... (3, Insightful)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047209)

I'd also like to point out that facebook groups are the new Internet petitions: completely meaningless. Either call or mail your representative, or take it like a good consumer.

Facebook groups are the new e-mail list.
They are useful for rallying and coordinating activities.

Though I doubt the government cares very much, many large corporations have keyed into
facebook/twitter/etc in order to quickly respond to complaints before they become PR messes.

Re:Raise your hand... (3, Insightful)

glwtta (532858) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047695)

They are useful for rallying and coordinating activities.

Slight correction: they are useful for making people feel like they are rallying and coordinating activities. They provide a nice outlet for people's urge to "stick it to the man" (usually by complaining), without actually accomplishing anything - everybody wins!

Re:Raise your hand... (1)

Tensor (102132) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047773)

Or get out off your effing couch and GO to Parliament/congress/whatever ... you'll always be taken as seriously as the effort you put protesting.

And a few mouse clicks is definitely not the way to show outrage.

I don't mind... (1)

mrphoton (1349555) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047063)

I don't mind that much. I mean by our governments past track record all our sensitive personal data can be either found left on a train, lost unencrypted in the post or on e-bay. So it is all pretty much public domain anyway. But seriously these guys only have 457days left in office, I just hope they get kicked out at the next election.....

And we care why? (4, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047079)

Really people, stop bitching, and start encrypting everything, using bank accounts in countries like Switzerland, and doing everything possible to minimize the data collected on you. Of course, you'll be labeled a terrorist for going "off grid", but if you want privacy anymore these days, you need to control your exposure. You. Personally.

Re:And we care why? (4, Insightful)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047127)

Really people, stop bitching, and start encrypting everything

That only works until the mere presence of encryption (or any dataset that merely appears to be encrypted) is criminalized to a high degree. They'll do whatever they can to make the average citizen perceive encryption as too risky.

Re:And we care why? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047187)

Really people, stop bitching, and start encrypting everything

That only works until the mere presence of encryption (or any dataset that merely appears to be encrypted) is criminalized to a high degree. They'll do whatever they can to make the average citizen perceive encryption as too risky.

What is the difference between "compressed" and "encrypted".

Re:And we care why? (1)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047267)

What is the difference between "compressed" and "encrypted".

Whether or not it's in the government sanctioned format, of course.

Re:And we care why? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047291)

They only way that could happen is if the Government banned data which they could not interpret. /dev/urandom would be banned. (along with /dev/null).

Re:And we care why? (4, Informative)

andy_t_roo (912592) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047335)

compressed data can be "trivially" returned to the original without any extra knowledge (other than the details of the compressions scheme) encrypted data, even with complete knowledge of the mathematical transform done, can't be undone without finding the extra info somehow. (also compressed data is basically always smaller, encrypted data is usually the same size, plus a header.

It is good practice to use both, so that breaking the encryption on a low entropy message is much harder (as it'll be compressed to a short, high entropy burst, and so no assumptions about "weak messages" can be made).

If you use an obscure compression method, then to automated filters there wouldn't be a difference.

Re:And we care why? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047549)

That only works until the mere presence of encryption (or any dataset that merely appears to be encrypted) is criminalized to a high degree.

Failing to provide any encryption key they think you have is already a criminal offence, potentially resulting in up to two years in jail, under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000.

Re:Encryption (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047653)

t.o.w.u.t.m.p.o.e(o.a.d.t.m.a.t.b.e.)i.c.t.a.h.d.

The Only Way Under The Misuse Potential Of Extradition (Or Any Damn Tyrannical Minister Apointee To Be Expected) Is Conversing Together, Always Hors d'Å"uvre.

--
Hail Kurt Godel, who proved that anything can basically be transposed into something else.

Re:And we care why? (2, Insightful)

Petrushka (815171) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047563)

Using Swiss bank accounts may be a partial solution, but you're still going to have tax records, NHS records, driving licences, passports, etc. that you can't encrypt, and which you can't prevent inappropriate people from seeing (such as government ministers ... including the unelected ones). Encryption only helps with respect to personal communication. There are lots of transactions that require more insecure types of communication, unfortunately.

Re:And we care why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27048423)

start encrypting everything, using bank accounts in countries like Switzerland, and doing everything possible to minimize the data collected on you.

What are we, prisoners? Should we start developing secret codes to tap out on walls to each other?
We shouldn't have to encrypt a damn thing. Not to mention at least 90% of the population wouldn't be able to follow your advice due to resources, knowledge, etc.

There are three words that should be said... (1)

Adilor (857925) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047085)

DO. NOT. WANT.

This is way more power than any agency, even government, should have. It's like, "You no longer have any right to privacy. Deal with it." I hope to the higher powers that be that this does not pass.

What I want to know is ... (4, Insightful)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047103)

what credible threats to the life and liberty of the UK citizenry could possibly justify this?

Re:What I want to know is ... (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047185)

what credible threats to the life and liberty of the UK citizenry could possibly justify this?

Don't worry, the apparatchik will think of something.

Re:What I want to know is ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27048475)

what credible threats to the life and liberty of the UK citizenry could possibly justify this?

The wrong type of snow on the (train) line. No, Seriously.

We have had a very authoritation admininistration for some time. Its bad news. A few years ago they passed new licensing law supposed to increase the provision of music - now even something as trivial as playing *anywhere*, for any purpose (say in a local village fete), even unamplified, requires a license. If you don't have one the organiser can go to jail for 6 months and face up to £20,000 fine.

Why mention the above? I've been asked to play at a local fete and felt I had to point the above out to the organiser. I'd play for free, but the license will cost him hundreds. Makes it a none-starter. Something that should just happen and have no consequences other than fun for all concerned is now dead and that is how little bits of your culture get chipped off, slowly erode and several generations later, die.

Faced with ridiculous crap like that for something so trivial, stuff like knobbling all your data for their own purposes is small beer.

We are the most over-regulated country in the world, having heavy handed laws for trivial things and yet incapable of dealing with the true villains.

UK is FUBAR (2, Insightful)

BountyX (1227176) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047117)

Why? Why is the UK so bent on tracking this shit all the time. The purpose of government and legislation is to facilitate interactions between people in some manner. I don't see the social service this provides to the welfare of the people? They are already tracking emails and phone calls unconditionally. All internet traffic is going through proxied servers (as evident during wikipedia incident with "child porn" on an album cover). Cameras all over cities. Seriously has anyone stopped to consider if all this technology is even EFFECTIVE (in use)? Furthermore, the fact that this "bypass" is given exclusive to the Minister is a big warning sign. I bet they're too scared to give people the same rights. The biggest risk of all this; ofcourse, is that augmentation of such data over a long period of time can pretty much be construed to incriminate anyone. What a waste of government resources.

You're all missing the point! (5, Funny)

Black Sabbath (118110) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047153)

Its not about privacy at all.

The government has discovered that by enacting legislation like this, they can generate almost limitless energy by sticking magnets on George Orwell's coffin and wrapping the whole thing in a copper coil. (There may be a requirement to immerse the whole apparatus in mineral oil to dissipate the heat generated by the ridiculously high speeds at which Orwell is expected to rotate).

Genius! Pure genius!

Should Work Out OK... (1)

lobiusmoop (305328) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047171)

As long as your sirname isn't Buttle.

Re:Should Work Out OK... (1)

perryizgr8 (1370173) | more than 5 years ago | (#27048179)

As long as your surname isn't Buttle.

corrected now. please people use the proper spellings!

It's a good idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047177)

It's for the common good afterall.

I said it before (3, Insightful)

mlwmohawk (801821) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047213)

The so called "democratic republics" HATE the freedom they profess to love.

Until the digital age, actual freedom was pretty hard. With the internet, the ability to reach the masses with ideas and data is virtually effortless.

In the U.S.A. at least, "We The People" better get off our asses and do something. In the UK, the BBC says the subjects have been careless with their freedoms.

This stuff is bullshit (sorry), march, protest, resist!!!!

Re:I said it before (2, Insightful)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047343)

The so called "democratic republics" HATE the freedom they profess to love.

The UK is a monarchy. Their entire political system exists because the Queen wants it to.

Re:I said it before (1)

mlwmohawk (801821) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047383)

The UK is a monarchy. Their entire political system exists because the Queen wants it to.

Not really. The monarchy exists because the people let it. The history of the magna carta is pretty clear. It was in the best interest of the monarchy to live.

Re:I said it before (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047419)

The so called "democratic republics" HATE the freedom they profess to love

Don't you mean governments hate freedom? I live under the rule of a democratic republic, but I certainly don't hate freedom. I want freedom. Government is what prevents me from exercising this most fundamental human right.

Come on, this is 2009. When are we going to finally admit that the government and the people are NOT the same thing?

Re:I said it before (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047861)

In the U.S.A. at least, "We The People" better get off our asses and do something.

Of course, "You The People" in the USA have been great about getting off your asses and doing something about the FBI reading all your (and our) e-mail. You've been vigorously defending your rights when your government tries to extend copyright law into something draconian, and of course haven't let them become pawns of industry cartels to push those restrictions on the rest of us.

Wait a second...

Re:I said it before (1)

perryizgr8 (1370173) | more than 5 years ago | (#27048193)

whoosh!!

They gave it away for free already (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047219)

They've been leaving all our personal data on trains, in pubs, by roundabouts and selling it on used computers on ebay. Is our data really worth anything anyway?

Could the government sell us out any more though?

Human Rights, EU etc (1)

linal (1116371) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047229)

Don't worry this is contrary to EU law which is sovereign over UK law. After speaking to a trainee lawyer she laughed and said that this properly won't even get passed. No need to panic put your tin foil hats backs.

Dear UK Goverment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047253)

Dear UK government,

While I sure you read 1984 in school (hell, who wasn't made to read it), I suspect you may have rather missed the point of the exercise. 1984 is not, repeat *not*, intended to be a textbook on good governance. On the contrary, it is a warning of the very serious (and these days fast becoming very real) dangers of just the sort of thinking you're currently engaged in, loosely disguised as fiction.

regards
concerned observer but thankfully not a UK resident

Next thing you know (1)

mc1138 (718275) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047289)

And they'll be trying to quarter soldiers in your home!

Their own data (1)

MrKaos (858439) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047321)

I wonder how they would feel if it was their own data that was being accessed?

Re:Their own data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047369)

"In order to ensure all government information does not fall into the hands of terrorists we shall ban any action that seeks to gain such knowledge any infringement will be countered with capital punishment, in order to save the children." Along those lines..

Re:Their own data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047431)

Oh I'm sure politicians and celebrities will be exempt from this. They're 'special'.

unbelievable. uk is practically a fascist country (5, Interesting)

unity100 (970058) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047411)

it is just one step from here to a fascist regime. every kind of laws that violate magna carta has been implemented. british public did nothing. i cant believe my eyes.

Re:unbelievable. uk is practically a fascist count (1)

jirf88 (1453921) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047509)

Indeed. Should this get passed V for Vendetta will be more than just a film I'm afraid. I believe Ben Franklin made a comment regarding this situation at one point...

Re:unbelievable. uk is practically a fascist count (1)

byornski (1022169) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047675)

That's gonna become the new godwin's law about the uk....

Re:unbelievable. uk is practically a fascist count (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047607)

it is just one step from here to a fascist regime.

No, the UK is beyond that point. It is definitely more oppressive, invasive, and politico-economically fascist than many pre-war fascist states were. Not including Italy and Germany, mind; and the UK hasn't got quite the nationalism thing going that fascist states of that time had. But it is basically a fascist country now. The Biggest Fascist Of Them All would have been absolutely delighted.

Data Sharing Is Data Sharing (0, Offtopic)

MisterCaptainFunKill (1181071) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047585)

So why is it alright for governments to abuse private information about its citizenry so blatantly but it's not okay for a few people to share files on p2p networks?

Why exactly did Great Britain fight Hitler? (4, Insightful)

freedom_india (780002) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047643)

Why exactly did Great Britain fight Hitler?
Churchill said some crap about liberties, freedom & stuff like that.
(of course he was a racist pig and a cancer-inducing chronic smoker who slept when London burned).
Seems Hitler's ideas won after all. Lets step back a moment and analyze him:
1) He kept saying that the Soviets are a menace and communism must be wiped out.
Which became the mantra of UK and USA after WW2.
2) He racially profiled people: USA does the same under Truman, FDR and Bush. UK does it explicitly. Hell churchill was an exponent of freedom for all, but vehemently (and violently) denied the same to British Colonies.
3) He believed in Rule of law (the Reich laws of racism were based on US laws). So does UK and USA.
4) He refused to prosecute the Reich Police and Armed Forces who violated the law. Tasering police and fasle-evidence-planting police and murdering soldiers go scot-free in UK and USA.
5) He always thought that the State was bigger than the Individual. Hell yeah!
6) He was a proponent of tracking the smallest activity of the individual. So does UK.

So, it is proven as a theorem that Hitler's ideals are what UK is following.
Looks like he won after all!
Wow! Our brave Hurriance pilots, the brave lonely men in Bombers who did not return home, the men who braved Omaha and Gallipoli, and the countless WACs who wept when their men died will all be happy to learn this.
 

Re:Why exactly did Great Britain fight Hitler? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27047925)

Er, Gallipoli was during World War I.

facebook... (1)

snicho99 (984884) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047689)

NO2ID has launched a Facebook group to challenge this threat to data protection.

Oh.... the ironing!

The UK may be coming a police state... (5, Funny)

DieByWire (744043) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047751)

But at least it's a polite police state.

Re:The UK may be coming a police state... (1)

serialdogma (883470) | more than 5 years ago | (#27048421)

You haven't dealt with the police lately have you?

Re:The UK may be coming a police state... (1)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 5 years ago | (#27048607)

They even allow you to remove your spectacles before they administer a beating and they always take a 15 minute break for afternoon tea; indeed, the whole process might almost be called, civilized.

The arguement (4, Insightful)

Demonantis (1340557) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047769)

The most powerful argument I have heard for use of surveillance technology is that people that don't break the law should not fear it. The problem is what if the laws change to suit the people in power. We don't need to give the government power that it does not need, but if we need to give them power to protect us it must come at a great cost to them. Regulate the access of the information. Make the process completely transparent. If abuse occurs make the system stop functioning or let the abused go free. It is safe guards like these that ensure the legal system. Why can't it be applied to all government functions.

Elected dictatorship (3, Interesting)

redelm (54142) | more than 5 years ago | (#27047919)

Please excuse the sensationalism, but the UK-style parlementary systems look very much like elected dictatorships. There are no checks & balances against the government power where the executive is not even separate from the legislative.

As a concrete exampke, I offer the spectacles of Tony Blair putting down three separate back-bencher revolts against him. Labour traditionally had no business supporting the US, particularly over Iraq. Most of the Labour voters were against Iraq. But for some reason Tony thought differently. And was able to impose his will. How would be interesting to know.

Please note, I am not claiming US-style presidential systems are better. They are certainly less democratic in the sense that the people's will is often thwarted.

On this privacy issue, UK citizens may need to fall back to the EU courts and constitution. Rather ironic, the birthplace of freedom (Magna Carta) have to rely on the continent with fewer and a horrible history of citizens serving the state.

Just allows what the NSA can do? (2, Insightful)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 5 years ago | (#27048051)

The UK just wants to cover itself.
The good old days of standing before the "house" and saying 'we' do not spy on UK citizens is over.
Allowing the NSA spy at will from bases within the UK.
Spying on "Ireland"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/gchq-spies-eavesdropped-on-irish-1106575.html [independent.co.uk]
The problem is not the spying, or allowing US bases to spy.
The problem for your average UK MP critter is getting exposed lying to the house.
A baited question about domestic public/corporate surveillance and this helps with that.
The MP can face questions in the house knowing they will be covered as they spin.

ja mien furer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27048451)

If I had a business in the UK, I would be making hasty plans to move it and myself somewhere more hospitable.

It's hard to imagine (1)

bugs2squash (1132591) | more than 5 years ago | (#27048527)

one government database being up-to date and containing accurate information.

Now imagine a dozen of them with conflicting information.

They'll wind up knowing less than they did in the beginning.

I'll wind up with a dozen aliases that even I did not know I had.

write to your MP (1)

dominux (731134) | more than 5 years ago | (#27048567)

I did. It isn't hard and mine is going to vote against it. Of course he is in the opposition so it isn't too surprising, but wherever you are in the UK you can write to your MP (by email- its very easy) and a letter writing campaign by valid constituents is going to be noticed. A facebook campaign isn't quite the same thing. Here is my letter and the response [theopensourcerer.com] and here is where you go to write to your MP [writetothem.com]

I would like to be able to do that... (1)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 5 years ago | (#27048689)

, would allow any Minister by order to take from anywhere any information gathered for one purpose, and use it for any other purpose.

If I had the right to do that I would start by taking the bill and shoving it up the Prime Minister's arse.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...