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Apple Store Reopens With Many New Products

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the such-a-world-of-bounty dept.

Desktops (Apple) 519

An anonymous reader writes "After being down for a couple of hours, the Apple store reopened this morning. All of the speculation has turned out to be a reality with Apple dishing out many new products and among them are; iMac 20", three iMac 24" models, two Mac Mini models, and two Mac Pro models — with one including an ATI Radeon HD 4570 graphics card. Also as rumored, there was the new Airport Extreme, and Time Capsule in 1TB. The Mac Pro is the granddaddy of them all. The lower-end Quad Core system includes a 2.66Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processor, 3GB of memory, 640GB hard drive, 18x double-layer Superdrive, and a NVIDIA Geforce GT 120 with 512MB of memory priced at $2,499. Finally, we have the 8-core system which includes two 2.26Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processors, 6GB of memory, 640GB hard drive, the 18x double-layer Superdrive, and of course the NVIDIA Geforce GT 120 with 512MB of memory priced at $3,299."

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Eh (5, Insightful)

dreamchaser (49529) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050661)

Wake me up when they make a nice, expandable, mid ranged desktop class Mac. I still think that's the big gap in their lineup.

Re:Eh (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051013)

Expandable? sorry, that's too complicated.

I think that category is fading (3, Insightful)

wiredog (43288) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051081)

How many people who would buy one would upgrade it? At the mid range you can get a pretty good (Windows or Linux) laptop, or iMac, or Mac Mini. High-end, sure, you want to put in the latest and greatest video card, or USB 3.0 card, without buying a new box. But any other expansion? Why not use USB? Or bluetooth? Most devices will work Well Enough that way. The EyeTV HDTV tuner is USB and works fine.

A Mac Mini looks to be a decent media center if you get a wireless keyboard+mouse and download HandBrake+VLC. A better AppleTV than the AppleTV, since it comes with a DVD player. The 24" iMac is Good Enough for anyone who isn't a media producer. It's certainly a decent software development machine, although a Mac Pro is better since it can do multiple screens.

Re:I think that category is fading (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051683)

The 24" iMac is Good Enough for anyone who isn't a media producer. It's certainly a decent software development machine, although a Mac Pro is better since it can do multiple screens

The iMac supports video spanning [apple.com] - you just need to get the right video-out adpater. The new ones even allow dual-link DVI.

iMac will drive multiple monitors (1)

BShive (573771) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051973)

You can drive two screens with an iMac! Been done, and planning to do it with the latest crop. Slightly disappointing CPU specs, but at least the HD4850 is an upgrade option.

Re:iMac will drive multiple monitors (4, Informative)

MadCow42 (243108) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052583)

I've been doing that with my 24" white iMac for a couple years now. I have Windows running in Parallels full-screen on one monitor, and Mac OSX full-screen on the other. It's a great cross-platform development environment, as well as a home machine.

Macs handle multi-screen pretty cleanly - no mucking about needed. Trying to get it to work well on my Dell laptop is another matter... every time you undock it it gets farked up and you have to re-set all the settings.

MadCow.

Re:I think that category is fading (2, Insightful)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052579)

I have a 1999 G4 tower. I upgraded the CPU from 400mhz to 800mhz about 4-5 years ago and added some ram. But yeah, then I've purchased three Mac laptops and two iMacs since then, because frankly, I've never really needed to upgrade. /andecdote

It would be nice to have a $500-ish tower with specs similar to a Dell Inspiron 530 though.

Re:Eh (4, Insightful)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051275)

Expansion isn't as important these days. Most people will only want to upgrade the HDD and perhaps the RAM, both of which the iMac will do. You can also add a 2nd monitor to it, USB will do the rest. People who make their own computers or have some niche requirements may not like the all-in-one designs, but that's not the majority, and hardly a glaring gap in their line-up.

Re:Eh (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051571)

Expansion isn't as important these days. Most people will only want to upgrade the HDD and perhaps the RAM, both of which the iMac will do. You can also add a 2nd monitor to it, USB will do the rest. People who make their own computers or have some niche requirements may not like the all-in-one designs, but that's not the majority, and hardly a glaring gap in their line-up.

I want to have a machine with PCI slots so I can put in an eSata or SCSI card and don't want to drop $2500 minimum for one. I work at a company that unfortunately has to have Macs around for testing certain hardware and it ticks me off that I have to budget four times as much $$$ for a Mac to get the ability to put in a SCSI card.

Re:Eh (4, Informative)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051811)

I don't think people who want to install an eSATA or SCSI card in a mid-ranged Apple computer are in the majority. I'm sure it sucks for those that need to, but that wasn't my point.

Re:Eh (3, Insightful)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051443)

Wake me up when they make a nice, expandable, mid ranged desktop class Mac.

Amazingly, that now pretty much describes the bottom end Mac Pro...

...Except for the price tag.

Re:Eh (1)

porcupine8 (816071) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051505)

People have been saying this for years, and yet it doesn't seem to have hurt Apple's sales in all that time. Guess you'll probably be sleeping for a while, because you're just not the market segment they're going after. I'll nap with you while I wait for my tablet mac... though I might wake up just long enough to snag a new mini one of these days...

Re:Eh (1, Informative)

binary paladin (684759) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051599)

Insightful? *rolls eyes*

While I agree that it's a big gap (I've always hated iMacs, mainly because my monitors tend to have a much longer lifespan than the rest of the computer), who is an expandable mid-ranged desktop targeted at?

Geeks and gamers.

Who is Apple not targeting?

See above.

They have home user machines and workstations. All of these machines are capable of running World of Warcraft which is the only game anyone plays on the Mac anyway.

ATI Cards in a MAC... never again (1)

drachenfyre (550754) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050679)

After the disaster that was my ATI card that came with the first generation Mac Pro (2 Warranty replacements for over heating and continued issues even after that, Thankfully they released the NVIDIA 8800 GT for the thing) I would never EVER trust a high end card in my Mac again.

Re:ATI Cards in a MAC... never again (1, Interesting)

the_B0fh (208483) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050693)

And so, you prefer NVidia's clusterfuck that's going on right now, and has been for the past 18 months or so?

Re:ATI Cards in a MAC... never again (1)

xenolion (1371363) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050769)

What was the model of the ATI card you had, was it a first gen or was the model out for awhile? You leave us very little details to see what you are talking about. I have had both NVidia & ATI cards go bad all where first gen thats why i now wait a few months then they have the the drivers and updated the fans on the cards to fix the problems with the first patch.

Re:ATI Cards in a MAC... never again (3, Interesting)

drachenfyre (550754) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051361)

It was the Radeon X1900XT. I had both the original and the updated versions cards. The machine was basically used for World of Warcraft (Which isn't hard on a GPU by any standard). http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/Graphics/X1900XT_Overheating/ATI_X1900_artifacts.html [xlr8yourmac.com] is a convenient rundown on the issues with the card. And yes, I prefer the current NVidia mess. At least I know what I'm getting. The X1900XT issues were related strictly to the Apple versions of the cards. It was stupid when I had to reseat the card at least 5 times to get the machine to boot (It would fail boot bios checks and hang). Since I put in the 8800 GT, I've had no issues. Not one. As I said, I would never trust any Mac with an ATI product in it after that mess.

Re:ATI Cards in a MAC... never again (1)

xenolion (1371363) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051489)

I can understand that if you had all those problems. I wish you luck.

Re:ATI Cards in a MAC... never again (1)

drachenfyre (550754) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051627)

Oh, I've loved it since I got the NVidia. Even at 3 years old, the machine is STILL a powerhouse compared to what is coming out today. Quad Core Xeons, an Nvidia 8800 GT, 4 disk raid 0 SATA array (Yes, I use time machine to protect my data) and when my tax refund comes in I can actually upgrade to 8 cores. It runs Windows, It runs OS X, and it runs *nix apps with a native X11 interface. I wouldn't trade it for the world. If it wasn't for all those pluses, I probably wouldn't have kept it through all the video card difficulties.

Re:ATI Cards in a MAC... never again (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27050873)

Well then, it's your lucky day. Those graphics cards are a generation old and mid-range at best.

Re:ATI Cards in a MAC... never again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051059)

After Apple replaced my overheated X1900 XT, everything has been running perfectly for me. BTW, it is extremely important to periodically clean the air intake on these cards. When I neglected that for a while, the fan kept coming on full blast.

640GB (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27050695)

640GB ought to be enough for anybody!

Should really add a "640kb" tag, or something like that.

More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (4, Interesting)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050723)

markets.

Man are the fanbois belly aching on many of the bigger sites. What shocked most is that prices for the new machines went up and in some cases a lot. An example comparing old aussie prices to new http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=7199753&postcount=164 [macrumors.com]

What is missing is...

LED screens on the iMacs
Blu-Ray (of course no one really expects it)
Quad Cores

Mac Mini got its update but the price is absurd as well.

For those of us who are still upgrading (I have an older 2.13c2d white model) some selected upgrades push ship times out four to six weeks (like buying an ati 4850 chipset)

Amazing that what Apple considers affordable is getting more extreme. Consumer level goods are professional level pricing.

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050791)

An example comparing old aussie prices to new

Apple is an American company. How much of this price change is due to the fluctuations in exchange rates?

Not as American as you might think (5, Insightful)

realxmp (518717) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050947)

The majority of their Macs, iPhones and displays are manufactured, assembled and shipped straight to their destination from Asia. The only parts of Apple that is really American is their R&D and sales and marketing parts, the rest was outsourced years ago.

Instead of looking at the Pound-Dollar relationship you probably want to take a closer look at the relationship between the pound and the currencies of South Korea, etc.

Re:Not as American as you might think (3, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051137)

The only parts of Apple that is really American is their R&D and sales and marketing parts

And the only parts of Apple that distinguish a Mac from any old Lenovo or Lenovo-compatible PC is their R&D and sales and marketing parts.

And the license for OS X! (1)

arete (170676) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051985)

And the license for OS X!

If you're buying a Mac to put Linux on it, you're probably wasting money. (Unless you're buying a zillion of them and getting a discount) OS X is like that Lenovo one, maybe... except for me the OS X vs Windows difference just dwarfs anything else.

Re:Not as American as you might think (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052029)

They report their earnings in the U.S., and (presumably) a significant number of their shareholders are interested in dollars.

Another side of it is that when they are setting prices they are far more concerned with what people will pay than they are with costs (this is much of the point of positioning yourself as a premium brand).

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (4, Informative)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051161)

Apple never dropped prices for the UK when the dollar tanked against the British Pound, but this rise is due to fluctuations in the exchange rate (which sees the British Pound more or less back to where it was against the dollar before the dollar tanked)? Hell, I'm a heavy Apple user and I'm not even that much of an apologist!

The new Mini is expensive, and there's little justification for it at that spec level.

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051407)

Very little. Back last year when the Canadian Loonie had passed up the greenback, prices were still quite a bit higher on apple.ca than they were on apple.com.

So much so, that using my academic discount would have resulted in essentially getting the American price, before taxes.

The American automakers tried to pull the same, attribute higher Canadian prices to the exchange rate, and it worked when the Loonie was weak, but once it supassed the Greenback, people caight on that the math just didn't check out.

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (2, Insightful)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051417)

How much of this price change is due to the fluctuations in exchange rates?

Well, I'm not sure how it works in other countries, but here in Australia the price seems to be pegged at an advantageous rate (for Apple) and that is that. There is no room for negotiation: you either want the product or you don't. This is IMO one of the more distasteful aspects of Apple's business model.

Their model doesn't annoy me enough to stop me using my second-hand MacBook, since I find it complements my (linux) desktop machines quite comfortably, but my approval isn't required...

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (1)

PrescriptionWarning (932687) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050797)

There's two Mac Mini's, one is more expensive ($800) but one is less expensive ($600), just to compare I spent $700 on mine about a year ago or so. Granted that it would be way more attractive and competitive (and reasonable) at $500 but its still not too bad if thats what you're looking for. As for me I'm just waiting till ASUS releases a $200 eeeBox as the ultimate XBMC/Boxee pc to hook up to my TV

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (3, Interesting)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051159)

Reread what the grandparent said: In certain markets. The price of the Mac Mini has gone up by a fair amount in the UK. None of the current lineup looks particularly enticing, but I still have 18 months left on my MacBook Pro's warranty, so I don't have to worry about replacing it any time soon. I'm starting to think that my next machine won't be a Mac though.

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051163)

Why not just build one yourself? With the right case, power supply and fan, you could probably build something for around $200-$250 with a full-blown Core 2 Duo and 1 GB of RAM or so.

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (0, Troll)

je ne sais quoi (987177) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051297)

Grandparent has it totally wrong about the prices, at least on the mini. There was no increase in price, but this is slashdot and everybody loves to hate Apple. The new ones are $599 and $799, which are exactly the same as the old one, if you don't believe the newegg, look at the wikipedia [wikipedia.org] page on them it has all the prices and specs for the old models. Also, as you can see here, Newegg [newegg.com] has one of the old models for sale still. They price it at $594, according to wikipedia [wikipedia.org] it's the lower priced model with a smaller hard drive.

The big differences I see is a larger hard drive (120 GB vs. 80GB on the basic), Firewire 800 on the new one vs. 400 on the old one (!!! Looks like firewire ain't dead yet!), display port video out + mini-DVI vs. just mini-DVI, a bump in the processor up to 2 GHz from 1.83 GHz, DDR3 memory vs. DDR2 in the old one (which is nice), and finally the new one has NVIDIA 9400M vs. Intel GMA 950. Oh, and the front side bus is 1066 MHz now vs. 667 MHz previously.

Overall it looks like a nice upgrade on the system.

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (3, Informative)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051597)

You might want to try reading a little more closely. People are discussing the prices in various non-US markets. Quoting a bunch of USD prices is, at best, irrelevant.

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (1)

je ne sais quoi (987177) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051839)

Actually, it's totally relevant because if the U.S. prices are staying the same, but the foreign ones are going up, it's because of the exchange rates, or what apple expects the exchange rates to do. The U.S. dollar sucks right now and europeans should be paying much more for U.S. products. I was in europe last summer and it cost me a tremendous amount of money, just because of the exchange rate.

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (3, Informative)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051953)

The U.S. dollar sucks right now and europeans should be paying much more for U.S. products. I was in europe last summer and it cost me a tremendous amount of money, just because of the exchange rate.

Um, no, if the US dollar is down, then while you (as noted) should be spending a lot more in Europe, they in turn should see much LOWER prices (in their terms) for US products.

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27052223)

The USD has almost doubled in cost compared to the SEK in less than a year.

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (5, Insightful)

sbryant (93075) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052493)

Mac Mini got its update but the price is absurd as well.

Too damn right!

It's priced at 599 US dollars, and at 599 Euros (for the cheaper one)... except that 599 Euros is well over 750 dollars. I'm sure there will always be price differences, but this is just plain idiotic. That's a price increase of 25%. I think it would actually be cheaper to buy direct from the US and pay shipping and import taxes!

-- Steve

Re:More affordable? Prices sky rocketed in many (1, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052655)

I was seriously considering buying a Quad-Core MBP. Not even a refurb, brand spanking new. There doesn't seem to be one to buy. Apple has officially fucking lost it, considering that the Quad-core Q9000 has about the same TDP as my Core Duo. As far as I'm concerned the only bright spot here is the Mac Mini, which finally gains the power to do HD video in its base configuration. It's a little overpriced for the specs, but the form factor will be worth a couple hundred bucks to a lot of people. This is the first mac mini which deserves to be used as an entertainment STB coupled to an HDTV. Finally, I think Apple has also completely fucking blown it not offering a touch option on all iMacs. Speaking of which, I'd like to add touch to a 32" screen, does anyone have any info on doing this by putting a sheet of glass over the display and reading its state with pressure sensors or something? I don't demand multitouch or immensely high accuracy. A screen this big just always makes me want to be able to jab at it.

Who cares? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27050799)

All their crap is a ripoff anyway.

Why give them free pub... (-1, Flamebait)

GerardAtJob (1245980) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050805)

... I won't buy anything Apple/Mac anyway... I just don't understand why this is called "news"...

Re:Why give them free pub... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27050847)

Well, considering they were just released, I don't think you can really claim they're olds.

Re:Why give them free pub... (-1, Troll)

GerardAtJob (1245980) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050897)

Lol a fanboy just rated my "flamebait"... it was just a question you know ... You don't see a "NEWS" for each new LG product do you ?

Re:Why give them free pub... (2, Insightful)

outZider (165286) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050969)

You do for most Dell and Lenovo products.

Re:Why give them free pub... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051001)

I'm the one that rated you. Your welcome.

Re:Why give them free pub... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051127)

Your welcome.

"I lik teh macz cuz dey iz so simpul 2 uze!"

Re:Why give them free pub... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051157)

Hey, you leave my welcome out of this!! Got it?!?!

Re:Why give them free pub... (2, Informative)

kinnell (607819) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051635)

Perhaps because this site isn't solely devoted to providing personalised news for you and nobody else? The irony is, you could customise slashdot so it doesn't show apple stories if you were so inclined.

Re:Why give them free pub... (3, Insightful)

Reapman (740286) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051649)

Last I saw Apple is a tech company... they just released a ton of new products. How is this not applicable? I guess when Google released their single cellphone, or Microsoft releases a new line of Zune's, that would also not be worthy for technical people?

If you don't like stories on Apple, you can, you know, set your preferences to block it.

Apple is simply to expensive. (1)

JoshDmetro (1478197) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050861)

I was recently checking out the local Mac store when I realized something. I don't have $2500 -$3000 for a laptop that doesn't even have an optical drive. Sure the Mac looks cool kinda if your a one mouse button kinda guy but I need minimum three buttons. Later that day I went to Wal-Mart bought an Acer Aspire 5315 for $400. I was a bit upset about having to pay for Vista which I promptly deleted after phoning Acer tech support and giving them a piece of my mind. After my new laptop was was formated and the Windows stench was removed I installed Ubuntu. And with Linux there are a few good games based on ID's engines that remind me of the good old Lan party days before hi-speed internet.

Re:Apple is simply to expensive. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051357)

You sure did show Acer and Apple! I bet you are really proud!! Good job!!

Now Apple will HAVE to lower their prices, and Acer will have a linux laptop out next week... all thanks to you! Awesome!!

Re:Apple is simply to expensive. (2, Insightful)

binary paladin (684759) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051693)

I walked into a Mercedes dealer today when I realized that, as a contractor, what I need is a truck and not a car.

As Mac user *I* don't need a laptop without an optical drive, which is why didn't buy the Air.

Oh, and one more thing, I'm tired of the "one button" crap. It's just old. The fact that you neanderthals are still using crappy plastic buttons rather than gestures and other multitouch goodies isn't my fault. I use an external mouse when I have the room, but when using a touch pad, sorry, Apple is by far the nicest to work with, period.

Re:Apple is simply to expensive. (4, Informative)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052013)

Laptops are like cars. There are features for every price range. If your #1 priority is price, Apple laptops are not for you. However you can't compare the Acer $499:
  • 1.86 GHz Intel Celeron M processor 540
  • 533 MHz FSB
  • 1 GB of DDR2 system memory
  • Intel GMA X3100
  • 160 GB hard drive, 5400 rpm
  • CD-RW/DVD-ROM combination drive
  • 15.4" 1280 X 800 screen
  • 802.11g wireless
  • 2 hr battery life
  • 13.11 lbs

With the MacBook Air $2499:

  • 1.86GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
  • 1066 MHz FSB
  • 2GB DDR3
  • 120 GB HD, 5400 rpm
  • NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT 256MB GDDR3
  • 13.3" 1440 by 900 screen
  • 802.11n wireless, Bluetooth
  • 4.5 hr battery life
  • 3.0 lbs

And complain that the MacBook Air is more expensive because it is designed for ultralightweight applications yet has a faster bus, more memory, better graphics, etc. Apples to oranges.

Re:Apple is simply too expensive. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27052273)

I don't think your post accomplishes what you think it accomplishes.

But do the Minis come with a Remote? (2, Interesting)

mwecksell (1178565) | more than 5 years ago | (#27050885)

I can't find out from Apple's page - do the new Mac Minis come with a bundled remote control? Because I'm thinking of putting one under the TV - especially with the low power draw at idle, the ability to do 1080p without breaking a sweat, and the firewire 800 port that will tell my external hard drives to spin down when not needed. Heck, this could probably handle my Time Machine backups for the other macs in the house while serving 1080p. Now if only Apple would rent HD Movies to this machine. Sadly, they still only rent HD to the Apple TV. ---matt

Re:But do the Minis come with a Remote? (1)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051015)

Heck, this could probably handle my Time Machine backups for the other macs in the house while serving 1080p.

I don't think you'd want to use a computer with only a 120 or 360 GB HD for serving video & Time Machine backups...

Re:But do the Minis come with a Remote? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051093)

He'd be using it merely for processing. The data would be stored on externals - hence the importance of the Firewire 800 drive. I'm actually considering picking one up to throw in the closet with a bunch of external hard drives as a media server - relatively low wattage, and it will definitely be able to handle 720P output to an Apple TV, possibly 1080P if they ever update the ATV to handle it.

Re:But do the Minis come with a Remote? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051121)

Heck, this could probably handle my Time Machine backups for the other macs in the house while serving 1080p.

I don't think you'd want to use a computer with only a 120 or 360 GB HD for serving video & Time Machine backups...

Someone should really create a port that would allow expansion via external storage devices. That would be the bee's knees.

Re:But do the Minis come with a Remote? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051217)

You noticed his mentioning firewire 800?

Re:But do the Minis come with a Remote? (1)

Teese (89081) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051041)

Apple Remote would cost you $20 extra.

Re:But do the Minis come with a Remote? (1)

Anal Surprise (178723) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051043)

It's on the check-out page.

$19 extra for a remote, which seems reasonable enough.

Re:But do the Minis come with a Remote? (3, Informative)

Chaos Incarnate (772793) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051115)

The remote isn't bundled; it's a $20 option. But if you already have a remote from another Mac in your house, it'll work just fine with the new Mini.

New iPods and iPhones can do remote (2, Informative)

mkiwi (585287) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051317)

If you've bought an iPod touch or an iPhone in the past 2 years, apple has a free program called "Remote." It lets you browse all your music/movies from iTunes over wifi, do coverflow from your mini to the iWhatever, etc. Then you tap on your movie/music and it plays it through the computer.

It absolutely love it; It can be found in the App Store.

Re:But do the Minis come with a Remote? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051923)

If you're mostly interested in a set-top box for HD video, why not save a few hundred and get something specialized for that. [popcornhour.com]

Re:But do the Minis come with a Remote? (1)

prelelat (201821) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052187)

I'm in Canada so I can't benifit from it but if you really want a service that you can rent HD Movies from why not setup the obvious and just go with NetFlix? I do believe it works on OSX.

For the Mac Minis,... (3, Insightful)

walter_f (889353) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051011)

an increase in price, and not a minor one.

The entry level Mini now has 128 MB of video RAM, but a shared one as before and with still 1 GB RAM total.

Then again, you get even more of these USB ports than before - great, isn't it? Especially considering the price jump of 100 euros over here in Europe.

But at least one good thing: Apple did not throw out Firewire from the Minis, so we should probably praise them for this, day and night...

Re:For the Mac Minis,... (1)

cerberusss (660701) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051425)

I wonder if the old MacMinis will be available in the brick-'n-mortar stores against a reduced price?

Anyone knows how Apple deals with oldish models?

Re:For the Mac Minis,... (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052317)

Check out the Apple store online for clearance items [apple.com] for discontinued products. There is a small discount.

what in the world are you smoking? (1)

je ne sais quoi (987177) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051699)

The entry level mini now has

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics processor with 128MB of DDR3 SDRAM shared with main memory

whereas the old one had

Intel GMA 950 graphics processor using 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared by main memory

So you're getting twice as much graphics memory that is also faster graphics memory. Also, the intel GMA is onboard video the same as the 9400M. As for the price increase, it's only overseas prices that have gone up, the american ones are the same. That means it's probably just the exchange rates that's determining the european price.

Re:what in the world are you smoking? (2, Informative)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051955)

At last! I don't suppose the mini is anything high-end, but the Intel GMA is pretty much WORTHLESS for gaming.

Re:what in the world are you smoking? (3, Informative)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051993)

So you're getting twice as much graphics memory that is also faster graphics memory.

Well, due note that SHARED BY MAIN MEMORY bit. It's important. Essentially, you're not really getting ANY graphics memory. You're just getting slightly faster main system memory, and the graphics chip is now willing to carve out twice as much of that main memory for it's own use.

Re:what in the world are you smoking? (1)

je ne sais quoi (987177) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052163)

Well, due note that SHARED BY MAIN MEMORY bit. It's important.

Why is it important? Show me the benchmark that twice as much shared DDR3 memory is slower than dedicated DDR2.

Re:what in the world are you smoking? (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052237)

This is no different than what was before. The Intel GMA 950 used the board memory. The difference is that while the nVidia 9400M isn't as powerful as dedicated graphics cards, it is far better than the Intel ones. At least you can play games with it.

Weaker video all around next to the old systems an (3, Informative)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051033)

Weaker video all around next to the old systems and a even bigger mac pro rip off $2500 for a core i7 based system with ONLY ONE CPU and nvidia 9500 video as the GT 120 is a 9500. What a ati card pay $200 more for a 4870 512 makeing it cost $150 + $200 = $350 makeing it about $100 more then other places you can get core i7 systems with better base video and the same cpu speed FOR ABOUT $1000+ less some even with 6gb of DDR3 ram. And why mini DP on a full size video card why not full DP with a DP to mini DP cable?

The old $1,199.00 $1,499.00 level imacs used to have ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB memory and ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO with 256MB with a NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS with 512MB memory in the $2,199.00 one now they have slower and weaker NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics on board video in the $1,199.00 $1,499.00 ones and NVIDIA GeForce GT 130 with 512MB memory in the $2,199.00.

The mac mini is still a ripoff $599.00 for 1 GB OF RAM? $50 more for 2gb and $150 more for 4gb?

# [Add $150.00] for a 2.26 cpu

120GB is still small.

The $799.00 mini has the same 2.0 cpu but 2gb of ram and a 320gb hd. It should have at least 128 - 256 vram that does not come from system but it does not.

For about $500 you can get a X2 7750 and 790gx board with 128 side port ram with 4gb of ram apple should of put more in to the mini.

Re:Weaker video all around next to the old systems (4, Interesting)

ifrag (984323) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051355)

This is exactly why I have not considered Mac as a viable option for me. The video card offerings are just not current enough. Why is it that everything else in the system is relatively high end and the video cards fall off the face of the planet on the low end or mid-range at best?

Until they either offer a base system with either NO VIDEO CARD (choose your own later) or something in the GTX 200 series, I can see no point in buying one. And what's up with the single HD4870, why not at least offer an X2? High end everything else and then crap for video card makes a nice workstation, but it's an insanely underpowered gaming rig. And at the price range of the Mac Pro, the only reasonable thing to compare it to is gaming class systems.

Re:Weaker video all around next to the old systems (1)

samkass (174571) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052241)

I think your typical Mac Pro buyer will spend most of the time in Photoshop, Aperture, Final Cut Pro, etc. I'm sure they optimized the graphic card and processor for those markets.

Re:Weaker video all around next to the old systems (3, Interesting)

mblase (200735) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052691)

High end everything else and then crap for video card makes a nice workstation, but it's an insanely underpowered gaming rig.

Everyone knows that, despite Apple's best efforts, Macs are a year behind PCs when it comes to major games anyway. I doubt anybody who's shopping for a gaming rig even gives Apple a second thought.

Re:Weaker video all around next to the old systems (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051451)

I hope to god you are not a native English speaker.

Re:Weaker video all around next to the old systems (1)

Spatial (1235392) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051563)

Weaker video all around next to the old systems and a even bigger mac pro rip off $2500 for a core i7 based system with ONLY ONE CPU and nvidia 9500 video as the GT 120 is a 9500.

God damn Nvidia and their stupid naming schemes. I thought it was a 9600GSO.

Can't they just settle on one scheme? For anyone who doesn't follow GPU news closely it must be incomprehensible. Not to mention the irritating tendency to release the same GPU over and over again under different names. The 8800GT was also the 9800GT, and it'll soon be the GTS 240 as well. The 8800GTS 512 was the 9800GTX... Etc.

AMD/ATi seem to have gotten the idea at least.

On the count of 3 (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051101)

OK, everybody together on the count of 3.

1...2...3...WHO CARES?!?!?

Virtualization options still limited (2, Insightful)

bbasgen (165297) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051219)

I am disappointed to see that the new iMacs don't have quad cores, although I'm a bit heartened to see they at least support up to 8 GB RAM. An imac quad core would be a great virtualization machine. I think Apple has missed the mark to not go quad core -- at least in the high imacs -- considering these models will likely be out for 9 months to 12 months. I'm also disappointed that prices didn't drop a bit considering the current market conditions. To ask folks to put down $1200 to have an all in one solution may be a non-starter nowadays. If you want a Quad core mac, you have to pay $2500 -- and for that you get 3GB RAM. Wow. Anyway, I can understand why there isn't fan fair here -- these are pretty minor speed bumps. These were much needed so I'm glad to see them arrive, but in the absence of new innovation, these speed bumps are decent today, but in 6 months they are going to be quite far behind.

Re:Virtualization options still limited (2, Funny)

pseudonomous (1389971) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051927)

Well ... just buy two dual core mac-minis for $599 each, stack them on top of each other and, viola! there you have you're quad-core machine.
 

Re:Virtualization options still limited (1)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052205)

An imac quad core would be a great virtualization machine.

First, I totally understand what you're saying. I'm one of the many who wish they had at least one mid-range hackable model because none of their offerings really match what I'd want.

Having said that, I think their logic is this: iMacs are meant for regular desktop users. They're not supposed to be workstations or high-end systems, even the higher-end models. If you want to do stuff more advanced than the average person, you're supposed to get the Mac Pro.

While I don't fully agree with them, I can understand them not wanting to cannibalize their most expensive systems by putting the same capabilities in their middling models.

Prices are completely nuts (4, Insightful)

Spatial (1235392) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051405)

The lower-end Quad Core system includes a 2.66Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processor, 3GB of memory, 640GB hard drive, 18x double-layer Superdrive, and a NVIDIA Geforce GT 120 with 512MB of memory priced at $2,499.

Since they don't come with a monitor, the profit margin on these things must be around 50%. Wow!

The hardware is typical mid-range stuff: decent hard disc, low-end GPU (renamed 9600GSO) and mid-high end CPU (renamed i7 920). Including a high quality motherboard and PSU, that would cost around 900 dollars at retail. That leaves a healthy 1,600 for the case, OS, software and peripherals.

Honest question: Who buys these things?

even if apple wanted $500 for osx you can still bu (1)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051523)

even if apple wanted $500 for osx you can still build a better system for less.

Re:Prices are completely nuts (0)

xenolion (1371363) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051561)

People that want the Apple name in their house and dont understand the the the price they are paying is not worth the equipment they are getting. I hope they dont sell and Apple has to drop the price to where it should be for the equipment you get. Hold on what am I thinking this is Apple the all mighty and great the fans will flock to them and pay what ever they want. Dont you wish every company out there had the fad and cool factor they did?? Im going back to the bar, make me as a troll on this one.

Re:Prices are completely nuts (5, Insightful)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052407)

People that want the Apple name in their house and dont understand the the the price they are paying is not worth the equipment they are getting.

...to you. As their market share is still increasing, and quickly, it's objectively true that their equipment is worth what people are paying. Whether you think that's fair or reasonable is irrelevant: the market has spoken.

Hold on what am I thinking this is Apple the all mighty and great the fans will flock to them and pay what ever they want.

I'm not a fanboy. I have a Mac only because a friend was practically giving one away. Still, when it up and dies, it will probably be replaced by another one.

I spend all day managing FreeBSD and OpenBSD servers from a heavily-hacked Linux desktop. I don't like the Mac because I'm not capable of anything else, or because I can't build my own (like the handmade home server sitting next to it), but because when I get home at night I just don't to mess around to get the thing working. I like doing normal-people things like making home movies of the kids, and playing with my iPod, and playing closed-source video games. If I can afford a Mac that lets me spend more of my free time doing the things I want to do, then it's my own business if I choose to buy one.

Looking down on others because you can't comprehend psychology and economics doesn't make you elite. It makes you an uneducated snot who's far more pretentious than the people you're looking down on.

Re:Prices are completely nuts (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27052323)

After some customization, I can get a mac pro for $3,500 that is almost comparable (not quite) to the pc I just put together for $1,400.

If people want to throw a dollar sign in the word "Micro$oft", then we need to through a couple in with Apple: "A$$le"

Re:Prices are completely nuts (3, Insightful)

obijuanvaldez (924118) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052555)

No kidding.
The Mac Pro spec as priced out on newegg:

Western Digital Caviar 640GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive $69.99
Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz Quad-Core Processor $288.99
EVGA 01G-P3-N959-TR GeForce 9500 GT 1GB Video Card $69.99
ASUS P6T Deluxe Motherboard $289.99
LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA $22.99
LIAN LI PC-60USB B2 Silver Aluminum Case $119.99
G.SKILL Value 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM $29.99 ea x 3 = $89.97
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 64-bit $179.99
Rosewill RG530-2 530W Power Supply $54.99

Subtotal: $1,186.89

This list may not include incidental things e.g. thermal compound, the exact same number of USB ports, but I think is a fair line by line comparison. Noting that the prices on the Mac Pro will not get better with time, although the above price will. The markup is about 100%. For this item, I am just not buying any argument that if you compare line by line that Apple products are reasonably priced. Literally.

30-40%, typically. (1)

argent (18001) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052639)

Since they don't come with a monitor, the profit margin on these things must be around 50%. Wow!

Nah, the Mac Tax has typically been documented to be about 30-40%. Unless you count the annoying funky hardware as a cost. Most of the Apple fanboys try and count the design as a benefit worth that extra cost, but I gotta tell you, I'd be happy to pay that surcharge on top of the price of OS X to get a version I could legally run on a Thinkpad or generic white box.

Apple hardware is the price you pay to get an OS that doesn't suck as bad as Windows, with applications that don't suck as bad as the ones you can get for Linux.

Re:Prices are completely nuts (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052641)

I think you can get a laptop around the same specs for that much. I bought 3days ago a T500 for 1300$ 2.53GHz dual core (not quad), 3GB ram, 250GB hd(not640), radeon w/ 256mb not 512. But it came with a screen wireless card webcam bluray and is a freaking laptop and 1100dollars less. Mac pricing is insane.

Re:Prices are completely nuts (1)

mblase (200735) | more than 5 years ago | (#27052643)

The Mac Pro is just that -- a professional machine. People who buy them usually load them up them with expansions before or just after the purchase: PCI cards for powerful audio or video editing, lots of RAM and internal storage, stuff like that. The price is what I'd expect for a high-quality business machine which will be expensed to the company anyway.

Few consumers want or need to buy expandable PCs or Macs for home use. Those who do are enthusiasts who probably know enough to build their own Intel OS X-compatible PC anyway. The rest of Apple's target audience want something that Just Works and doesn't take up a lot of space or power.

The Real World (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27051441)

cares. Snooze.

Don't forget the new keyboard (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051455)

I like the new keyboard that ships with the iMac -- basically a wired version of the compact wireless keyboard.

FireWire 400 is dead (2, Insightful)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 5 years ago | (#27051551)

Looks like Apple has finally moved on from FireWire 400, as all the new products only have FireWire 800 ports. About time -- two different FireWire ports was starting to get annoying, although it does mean you'll need to get an adapter for old stuff.

I've been a Mac fan since my Apple ][+, HOWEVER... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27052129)

I've been an Apple fan since my Apple ][+ when I was 9 years old. Throw in a 512ke, SE, 6100, iMac Rev B, and my iMac G5; along with my Dad & family's numerous machines, and I love it all.

However, I probably won't be buying another Mac any time soon for a few reasons:
* I live in a multi-computer home environment. I've got two Windows machines, an Ubuntu machine, a MythTV, and random stuff. The Mac works great *when you do everything the OSX way*. However, in a mixed environment, it doesn't. I'm thinking of movies, pictures, address book, and things like that.
* I bought my iMac G5 20" ALS, and it was a great machine for about 40 months. Then, it failed. Apple told me to go pound sand since I was out of my 36 month AppleCare (that I never used previously). That stings. Higher-quality hardware my ass. I recapped the PSU, and I recapped the logic board. There was something else wrong with this machine, so I finally sold it for parts on eBay. Bummer to have a perfectly good machine die on me and have no recourse other than my wallet.
* I was really getting into iMovie HD 6 (I think that's the version), then the iMovie programs got really dumb.
* I hate backing up /home/username. I just really want to backup my documents & mail & a few other things. So, either I back up the whole gargantuan mess, or just my documents. Rooting around for all the necessary prefs files is a PITB.

The big challenge for Apple, to me, is a few fold:
* The hardware *is* expensive. And, in my experience, very proprietary to the point where a failure totals a machine. My x86 tower is nicely generic.
* OSX isn't perfect. Neither is XP/Vista/Ubuntu.

Okay, I don't quite know what my rant is. I'm just in a small minority of "Mac Fanboy for ages, switching to Windows and living just fine."

Holy overpriced, batman (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27052517)

Am I the only one thinking, "Wow, I could build that Mac Pro for 1/3 the cost?"

I've heard of expensive but this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27052557)

I went to the online apple store and tried outfitting a 24" iMac. To upgrade from two gigs of ram to four gigs costs $1000.00. Probably an error but its a big one.

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