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Website Does Homework For Kids

samzenpus posted more than 5 years ago | from the thinking-is-hard dept.

Education 166

A new French website allows children to pay older students to do their homework for them. Faismesdevoirs.com (domyhomework.com) allows children to buy answers to simple maths problems for 5 euros ($6), while a full end-of-year presentation complete with slides and speaking notes costs 80 euros ($100). Founder Stephane Boukris says, "I realized there was a gap in the market. Add to that a dose of insolence, a zest of arrogance and the internet, and you have faismesdevoirs.com." I thought cheating on homework was what older siblings were for.

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If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (5, Insightful)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083391)

... is all that matters and not the actual comprehension, then they will find a way around the arbitrary system.

In other words, if you ask for bullshit do not be surprised when they bullshit you.

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27083719)

"... is all that matters and not the actual comprehension, then they will find a way around the arbitrary system."

The real problem comes from measuring "comprehension". Schools are not run based on scientific principles, they don't take into account the students interest or student feedback, many kids grow up to hate the institutions of school because of this.

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (1)

von_rick (944421) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083945)

Schools are not run based on scientific principles, they don't take into account the students interest or student feedback

There is no proven scientific principle of school running. There have been several suggestions, psychoanalysis of students/teachers, reward systems, etc., but the state of schooling doesn't seem to show any dramatic change.

One thing I can say for sure is that level of comprehension among students who are actually interested in the subjects has gotten much better because of the availability of simulation demos. I'd have understood conics much better in school if I had easy access to graphing programs (back in 94).

If you teach them that a subject... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27084045)

... is not writing part of the opening sentence with ellipses after it, then I for one would be a lot happier.

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (2, Insightful)

nine-times (778537) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084115)

To some extent, the problem is that schools are designed to churn out factory workers. They teach people to do as they're told, follow directions, and performance at completing menial tasks is the primary measure of virtue. It's no coincidence that our current school systems have their roots in the industrial revolution.

So the US is now a country of people who have a factory-worker mentality and generally approach problems the way a factory worker would, but we aren't factory workers. The factories have gone, manufacturing is all done overseas, but we still think that performance in completing menial tasks is the primary measure of virtue. As a result, we even think of schools as little worker-factories, and we set them up to churn out more factory workers.

I wish I knew how to change that.

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (1)

Wonko the Sane (25252) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084705)

Not to mention that factories are not run that way [wikipedia.org] any more.

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (1)

Kral_Blbec (1201285) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085331)

You did notice that its not about the USA right? We are bashing the French here.

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (1)

nine-times (778537) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085477)

I did notice that, yes. What's your point?

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27086471)

I wish I knew how to change that.

I wish that too, but my factory worker mentality gets in the way all the time :(

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27084127)

Chaching...
I think I just found my unemployment subsidy plan. Not only do I get to pad my wallet, but I also get the satisfaction
of filling france with a whole generation of drooling idiots (not like it wasn't already, but hey).

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (1)

FreakWent (627155) | more than 5 years ago | (#27086123)

why do the yanks hate the french so much? They inspired your revolution and gave you a statue, and you've been spitting on them ever since.

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (1)

konohitowa (220547) | more than 5 years ago | (#27086271)

why do the yanks hate the french so much? They inspired your revolution and gave you a statue, and you've been spitting on them ever since.

Wow. You are kidding, right? I mean, please tell me that's sarcasm. If not (and for other people who are so ignorant they might actually think your statement is informative, rather than sarcastic)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War [wikipedia.org]
This is a pretty key sentence... "The example of the American Revolution was one of the many contributing factors to the French Revolution."

And then, the Statue of Liberty came 110 years later. So, in your alternate reality, have we been spitting on them since 1775/1776 (when you think they inspired our war), or since 1886, when they gave us the statue?

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27084931)

That seems a bit unfair.

It is obvious that schools have a limited time in which to teach people how to perform certain tasks.

The time taken in between being shown how to accomplish a task and comprehension is not the same for everyone. This might explain why you regard such rote learning as bullshit. For others it may work perfectly well as far as it can go

I'd be interested to hear your alternate method for teaching children.

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (2, Insightful)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085955)

Stop pretending that everyone is "gifted" or "honors" and let the precious snowflakes that get it after the third go move on in advanced classes while the ones that actually need to bang their head against 50 problems stay behind.

In other words don't punish excellence with forced mediocrity. Throw in some ethics as a preventative measure and if they get cocky and act too superior anyway they'll get taken down a notch when they hit something they can't do.

Re:If you teach them that an arbitrary system... (1)

CapnStank (1283176) | more than 5 years ago | (#27086639)

I completely agree. Being one of those 'gifted' students throughout my high school has generally made me hate the institution. I got more sleep in my classes wasting my youth there then I did at home. Yes, I understand that rational numbers are really that simple, can I go now?

Cheating yourself (1)

Roger W Moore (538166) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085075)

The "arbitrary system" is simply to encourage you to learn the material. If you cheat it by not learning it then you are only cheating yourself and come the exam, where this type of cheating will not work, you will have a very nasty surprise.

Re:Cheating yourself (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27085597)

Bullshit. It doesn't encourage kids to learn the material, it encourages them to avoid it when possible.

I know lots of people who are very dedicated to getting straight A's. Every single one of them takes the time--because they want the grade--NOT because they give a shit about the stuff they're learning. If they see an opportunity to cheat without getting caught, they'll take it.

*Hell yes your cheating yourself. Basically every single kid attending a U.S. school is. The system encourages it. You're punished when you actually think for yourself.

Re:Cheating yourself (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 5 years ago | (#27086013)

The "system" is flawed in grading as well, it's very often possible for teachers to take someone a whole letter grade down purely for personal reasons (in florida it's often called "lifeskills points") and the entire system is extroardinarily F-weighted.

It's very easy to simply get unlucky in which questions are on a given test and by that ONE grade be mathematically eliminated from ever getting much higher than a middleground C whether or not you get all C's for the rest of the year or all A's.

It's a system I abused to garbage bin finals and still have an A that one of my schools implemented a policy where your final can override your grade if you don't sit for it.

Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (4, Insightful)

gcnaddict (841664) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083401)

"It turns them into consumers. The message is that for the right price you can get the results you want. It's nonsense," [Agathe Field] said.

That makes perfect sense to me.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (4, Insightful)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083533)

Yeah, sounds like a perfect preparation for the real world.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (2, Insightful)

geekymachoman (1261484) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083827)

Yeah, sounds like a perfect preparation for the real world.

As a gown up who as a kid was cheating in school:

Then change the teaching methods. Kids don't want to learn because they find that certain subject boring, or the way it's teached is boring. so they cheat. My teachers and system, weren't interested in all that. It's easier to give an F, so I was forced to cheat.

The current system, it appears to me, is designed for punishing. You didn't learn ? Ok, here's F and you think about this. System of reward and punishment. But that doesn't work very well, so when we talk about kids who cheat or get a F, be aware of that, before condeming and limiting them in "real world" when they grow up. Grown up's messed up, kids where innocent, naive and afraid victims.

As Winston Churchill says - Where my reason, imagination or interest were not engaged, I would not or I could not learn.

"Teached"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27084023)

Obviously English was one of those classes you had to cheat to pass.

Re:"Teached"? (1)

geekymachoman (1261484) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084135)

My native language is Serbian, not English.

Re:"Teached"? (1)

Kokuyo (549451) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084639)

Obviously, the same could be said about you and Geography. There are countries other than the US of A, you know.

But I expect you knew that. I also expect you knew that the parent was actually not a native speaker (like myself). The fact that you posted as AC makes me believe that you're most probably just some dickhead who gets off on pissing off other people.

Frankly, you're pathetic.

Re:"Teached"? (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085127)

the same could be said about you and Geography. There are countries other than the US of A, you know.

Well your particular weakness would appear to be comprehension, since he never stated anything to the contrary.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (3, Interesting)

LordNor (605816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084057)

I call BS... I was one of the kids that people cheated off of... None of them did it because they were bored. They did it because they were lazy and didn't care. The worst offenders were the ones who's parents paid them for receiving a good grade. At that point, they focused on the grade instead of learning.

I think we need to throw all the standardized tests out the window and start teaching kids how to learn and not how to pass a test.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (2, Interesting)

Niris (1443675) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084245)

I had this problem until high school, then I had all of my teachers give me an extra copy of the assignment that I could do at home while screwing around in class and writing bullshit that was 100% wrong on my assignments but sounded good, so I could laugh and watch the copiers fail until they'd get the Hell away.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (2, Interesting)

geekymachoman (1261484) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084299)

That is the point. They didn't care, because they where kids, their interests where in other stuff.
They don't "understand" the consequences of not learning, but it's not theirs fault.

If you did learn, and many of slashdotters probably did learn, ok .. good for you. But it's not justifed to blame kids who don't, because they find the subject boring. In fact, those who find some subject boring, they will probably not be good at it, even if they learned it.
I give a rats ass for history today, I know the basics, and a lot more probably then the kids who did learn, but I'm not interested in that, Maybe I would, if different approach to teaching was used. For example ... video games ? I learned english sitting in front of TV and playing old dos adventure games.

Childrens mind is extraordinary.. it can learn and aquire new skills, faster then any other living being on earth, including adults .. I think we all can agree on that.. just give them fun way of learning.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084969)

I learned english sitting in front of TV and playing old dos adventure games.

It could be far worse... you could have learned SNKglish. [jgpalanca.com]

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

Chandon Seldon (43083) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084341)

None of them did it because they were bored. They did it because they were lazy and didn't care.

What's the difference? If the material interested them rather than boring them, then they'd care. If they cared, they wouldn't be lazy.

Teaching is really simple: If the students are interested then they'll learn. If they aren't, they won't. Some teaching methods will increase student interest, others will decrease it. Making moral judgments about the student's dedication or whatever is a pointless waste of time.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

Rhone (220519) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084565)

I agree. While I'm sure there is a lot of room for improvement in the education system, the people I saw cheating when I was in school just plain didn't want to have to put effort into anything.

They're the same people who grow up and do the absolute minimal amount of work they can get away with at their jobs.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085185)

They're the same people who grow up and do the absolute minimal amount of work they can get away with at their jobs.

This is France we're talking about - they don't even have to do that much. Chomeur is a popular and lucrative career option there.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (3, Insightful)

nine-times (778537) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084643)

I call BS... I was one of the kids that people cheated off of... None of them did it because they were bored. They did it because they were lazy and didn't care.

There's a very fine line between "bored" and "lazy and didn't care". If I'm not doing something because the activity bores me, then clearly I don't want to work on it because I don't care much about it.

I have an aversion to the word "lazy" because I'm not sure what it's trying describe. It seems to me to imply that there are people who won't do work because they simply won't, as though there are no further reasons behind it. That doesn't accurately describe anyone I know.

Most of the time that I've dealt with people who are averse to work, there are really a number of factors at play. For one thing, if I refuse to do the work you want me to, it's possible that I just don't think that work is valuable, and it's even possible that I'm right about that. It may also be that I don't really know how to do that work, or I don't know where to begin, and rather than admitting it, I just put it off.

Beyond that, lots of people that I know who are "lazy" in general are also just very discouraged from working. Often they're coming from a place where they believe that nothing they do will be accepted by others to be "good enough". If you're feeling like you have no possibility of success and achievement, then there doesn't seem to be much point in trying.

I know I probably sound like a politically correct hippy who's just making excuses, but I just think there's something dangerous in labeling children as "lazy". It's saying, "You're not just disinterested or discouraged, but there's actually a serious flaw with you, personally, that makes you unworthy of success." If being discouraged is actually part of the problem, then calling them "lazy" may be very counter-productive in getting them to work on things.

You are somewhat right, but miss a vital bit (2, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 5 years ago | (#27086611)

Lazy is a judgement by a certain standard.

Lets use another judgement, sweet, to illustrate. What is sweet (as in sugar is sweet)?

Obviously what I experience as sweet can be very different from what you experience as sweet. Worse, depending on what I been eating before, my mental and physical state, I may experience sweetness in a different way. So wether something is sweet or not is not an absolute. Yes as a society we must be able to label things as either sweet or not sweet based on general consent that doesn't exist. Sugar is sweet even for people who lack any capability of sensing sweetness.

Lazy, in the case of people being to lazy to be intrested works in a similar way. Sure, in lab you might be able to make any task intresting enough to engage a person who is really just bored or any of the other things you mention rather then "lazy". But the world is not a lab and schools/employers can not spend endless resources trying to make every bored person intrested. Some tasks just need to be done because... end of story. If you can't, then the label is lazy.

If you are not prepared to simply say at a certain point "we did all we wanted to do, now it is up to you and if you don't, you fail" you end up with the no-child-left-behind policy. The problem with that is that you end up chasing a rainbow. There will always be a kid who is even futher behind. Even more disintrested even more bored. Chase that kid and all the others, who were intrested will instead be left behind. School nowadays is so non-challenging that kids with brains are left to rot because the most dis-intrested can't be left behind.

Worse, you can do this in school but trust me, that is not going to happen in real life. I see this regularly, "kids" who just never learned that in the workplace school rules do not apply. No, your employer doesn't own you a job, the board of directors is not going to fix your performance review to increase their grade point average etc etc. Most of the time, you won't even get in as nobody is going to hire somebody they got to motivate even to turn up for a job interview.

Your ideas are alright, just not practical. At a certain point our society just can't afford or can't be bothered to keep chasing after people who are lazy. Sure, you might re-label them "too expensive to be motivated" instead if that makes you happy, but the result is the same. If you can't motivate yourself to a certain point, nobody is going to do it for you in the real world.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27085753)

When your forced to spend 6 hours a day 'learning' crap that you don't care about, you get lazy with it.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (3, Insightful)

cephalien (529516) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084259)

"I was bored, and my teachers weren't interested in doing things my way, so instead of making a good faith attempt to learn, I cheated."

Wow. No wonder all my students think they're entitled to passing grades just because they show up.

Man up, Nancy. Until the school systems are so well funded that we have a 1:1 teacher student ratio, some kids are just going to have to suck it up and learn the hard way.

Cheating is just an excuse to not work hard. If you can demonstrate serious effort and still have trouble, try finding a teacher/professor during office hours.

Amazingly, we're pretty ameniable to trying to explain topics over again if you'd bother to ask.

Cheat in my lectures, and you get a zero. The end.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (2, Insightful)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084601)

Sleep 4 to 5 hours, skip breakfast, carry 2/3rds of your weight half a mile, listen to a lecture and then write by hand a 5 paragraph essay, carry that weight another half mile, repeat, carry that weight another half mile, repeat, carry it another half mile, this time to 50 advanced chemistry problems without ANY type of calculator OR slide rule OR lookup table for square roots, go another half mile to stand in line for 25 minutes of your half hour lunch break and pay $3 eat 1 ~4 inch long slice of pizza and about 8 ounces of skim milk that's past it's expiration date, pick it up and haul it another half mile to do 50 3-equation sets of quadratics with a 4 function calculator, go another half mile and then another 5 paragraph essay gets churned out.

Now go home and read roughly 2 small paperback novels, do two more 5 paragraph essays, another 80 quadratic sets, another 22 chem problems, and work on whatever random assignment the teacher wants you to do as part of a "yearlong research project".

Oh yeah you're doing all of this in a school that's designed for a population so much lower that right now you've got 3 toilets for about 1200 people. And it's 85 degrees outside and 80% humidity and much hotter during your your half-hour long bus ride that is literally 4 to a seat and people standing in the aisles, and you get to do this all again tomorrow.

In the 3 minutes you have from the moment your teacher allows you to begin taking things off your desk and putting them in your backpack you try to go to the bathroom but teachers keep walking to the front of the 20 student line and screwing you over.

They obviously don't give three shits about anything other than themselves and whether you cheat or not you'll still be far and away qualified for college and the real world.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (3, Insightful)

TrekkieGod (627867) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084967)

Cheating is just an excuse to not work hard. If you can demonstrate serious effort and still have trouble, try finding a teacher/professor during office hours.

Although I agree with you that cheating is unacceptable (and deserving of a zero), it is a symptom of the system. You say it's an excuse to not work hard, and you want serious effort being demonstrated. Well, working hard and amount of effort should be completely irrelevant. Results are what matter. That's true in the "real world" and it should be true in the schools.

Some people will learn effortlessly. Others will require more work. Yet, some teachers (not necessarily you) insist on giving large amounts of busy work, just to make sure that the students have hours of work after school to accomplish, on the hopes that the ones who are having difficulty learning will eventually do so by repetition.

Problem #1: Even the ones who do eventually learn through the busy-work repetition are not actually "learning." They'll be able to follow the example to solve that types of problems given them, but they'll have no idea how to apply the concepts to solve problems they haven't seen before.

Problem #2: The ones who learn quickly end up wasting their time on tons of problems they already know how to work.

Problem #3: There are people on both categories who will simply be frustrated with the amount of work, and just not do it. They'll either take the bad grade or cheat. Not saying that's a justification to the cheating, here. Personally, I just used to calculate exactly how much homework I could get away with not doing to get the grade I wanted in the class rather than cheat. I'm not a genius either, but homework really was given in extremely large amounts to compensate for the people who were really having trouble with the classes.

Ideally, this is what you do: you assign homework, but don't grade it. Assign lots of problems but let your students decide how much they need to work on. You can have them turn it in and correct the problems they did work on (without assigning a grade, so they don't have to turn in everything...this will keep your workload lighter too) so that they get confirmation that what they think they are doing correctly actually is correct.

You keep your classes discussion oriented. Make sure students are involved when you ask them about the concepts, not the problems.

You give them tests for the evaluation of their knowledge, which is the only thing that should matter. Part of the test is like the problems they've worked on for homework, but at least half the test are problems they've never seen before, but have the knowledge to figure out. This ensures you are testing their knowledge, not their ability to memorize a process to solve a particular type of problem.

There. Now if somebody fails the test because they didn't do any of the optional homework, it's their own damn fault for not wishing to work hard. However, you're no longer trying to punish people who don't wish to work harder then they have to.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

GMFTatsujin (239569) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084291)

The system is bad, yeah. Having been all both sides of the desk, I know.

So: wich grownup's do you blame for you're shity litterasy?

Winston Churchill, by the way, was lauded for his ability to FUCKING SPEAK AND WRITE, whatever his thoughts on education. Not to mention, you know, running a country.

Before I buy even one cent worth of your argument that it's all the system's fault, you're going to have to show me that you -- or the apparently silent majority for whom you stand -- took the time to make up for it somehow on your own initiative.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

geekymachoman (1261484) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084467)

So: wich grownup's do you blame for you're shity litterasy?

As I said above, Im not native English speaker. Read posts above.

Before I buy even one cent worth of your argument that it's all the system's fault, you're going to have to show me that you -- or the apparently silent majority for whom you stand -- took the time to make up for it somehow on your own initiative.

I did. I learned English myself (maybe it's not perfect, but I can do my job), I was messing about with Linux, I got my first Job as Sys Admin in very 'large' company for this area when I was 16, 80+ servers, I run my own Wireless ISP, I have one more company dealing with Video Streaming.. I spent months reading psychology, philosophy and some ancient indian 'religions'... and I consider myself very knowledgable in all those areas. I however, suck at math, history, and some other (to ME) boring subjects.

I'm now 23 years old, and I was "very lousy pupil".

Is that enough ? For someone who dropped out of high school, and did all that in 7 years by himself ?

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

geekymachoman (1261484) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084569)

Sorry for double posting, but I have a feeling someone will catch those "months learning part", so I gotta correct myself. It was years, for hours.

Regarding other things, as art.. I play guitar for 3 years now. I sucked at musical class too in school.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

GMFTatsujin (239569) | more than 5 years ago | (#27086547)

Okay, I guess I'm the asshat here. Thanks for the clarification.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (2, Funny)

Kokuyo (549451) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084723)

I sure hope 'wich grownup's do you blame for you're shity litterasy?' was meant as a joke...

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

nine-times (778537) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084803)

Settle down a little. It's obvious he's not a native speaker.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

mcfatboy93 (1363705) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084785)

Now i am still in High School and i can tell you one thing. Why cheat on an assignment if you are skilled at just BSing the questions. because we may have a diffrent system from when you were in HS, the teachers still have close to 100 students in all their classed and they still don't actualy read what you write.

If in france they actualy count the words in your paper then i might actualy pay for it

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

macxcool (1370409) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084949)

so I was forced to cheat.

I don't think so. No-one forced you to cheat, you chose to do so. This is a moral choice and the ability to do the right thing needs to be acquired before a child can make the right choice.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

geekymachoman (1261484) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085169)

Moral choice ? BS.

Moral have nothing to do with learning, and with cheating on tests in school. Moral, ethics, etc. comes from parents, and theirs lifestyle && principals.

That what you have said now, is like saying "think of the children" that is popular among you Americans now. Distracts people from rational judgment. Moral is an emotional thing. If you can do something not moral, and feel fine about it, when you grow up ... then you where fucked up somehow as a kid, certainly not because you cheated in school.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085497)

Moral, ethics, etc. comes from parents, and theirs lifestyle && principals.

I suppose yours taught you that it's OK that someone who studied hard and did the exam fairly gets a lower mark than a corrupt lazy cretin like you, and that you blag your way into a position that he probably deserved more than you?

From what I've seen of your part of the world, they probably did.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

geekymachoman (1261484) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085609)

If you measure that he deserved more because he was more "obedient" then me .. then you'r right.

I don't judge people, like you do for instance, I think all people are the same, and all of them deserve the same chances, no matter how hard they studied. That's why, if you come to ask a job from me, if you know what you'r doing, you'll get it, whatever you did in school, with diploma or without.

Whatever I got in life, I did it myself with my own two hands and brain. School didn't help me, system didn't help me, other people didn't help me, and if I meet more people like that in my lifetime I will respect them far more then I would respect you, whatever or whoever you are, because they worked twice as hard to learn and succeed, later in life.

Now move along and spread 'hate' about other people and their country's somewhere else. Douchebag.

Re:Ahem, nonsensical sense much? (1)

MeanMF (631837) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083861)

Even more so if the kids actually have to work for the money they're spending on homework answers...

In class tests. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27083499)

Just make in class tests worth more...

Re:In class tests. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27083681)

Just make in class tests worth more...

I was about to say that's a stupid idea which didn't address the problem. I was going to say that we should get rid of homework and let the students who really want to fail, fail.

Then again, I only really learned in classes that forced me to do the work. I bet a lot of students are like that. I can honestly say that I'm lazy, and the classes that rode my ass made me a better student in the end. Even though I hate those teachers and was bored doing the assignments, I gained a geuniune understanding of the topics.

I think that the current system, homework and tests, sets a good balance between aptitude and effort.

english .com gone (1)

cstdenis (1118589) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083553)

The domyhomework.com is already squatted.

There goes my business plan of opening the English language version of it.

Re:english .com gone (2, Funny)

M-RES (653754) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084053)

Aha, and a valuable lesson is learnt. Always do your homework before launching business plan ;)

I wonder... (1)

el3mentary (1349033) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083573)

How long before the education authority shuts it down.

WTF!!! (1)

joshtheitguy (1205998) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083611)

Where the hell was this when I was in school?

Shit...... I actually would gotten good grades if it weren't for homework.

Exam day (1)

CHK6 (583097) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083613)

The last sentence of the article is the most telling. Homework can be grueling especially when you need help at the elementary age and no one is there to help you. At $6 per question and with 20+ math problems to solve per night, I doubt this will be abused.

And even if abuse is wide spread, then all the more reason why in-school exams and quizzes are important. To gauge how well students are learning and how well the lessons are taught by educators. To much importance is placed on homework in many areas.

Re:Exam day (2, Insightful)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083727)

For each person that feels as you do, that homework is over emphasized and quizes and tests are under emphasized, I can bet that there are 5 people that feel the opposite way. If you think about it, homework is what prepares your day to day job (though sometimes extreme deadlines begin to feel more like tests). I've been out of college for 2 years now and I've spent 99% of my work time doing what I would call homework, and about 1% doing what I would call tests.

Not that being able to think on your feet isn't important, sometimes it is the 1% that matters after all.

Re:Exam day (1)

ShadowRangerRIT (1301549) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084049)

My impression has been that, of those five you mention, most of them don't want homework to count more, they just want less of the test grade to be shoved into a single, high pressure exam. Having smaller, weekly quizzes or more in class projects reduces the odds that a single bad day in finals week wrecks your grade. It also reduces the tendency to only cram for the one test and not pay attention the rest of the semester.

I remember grade school homework as 90% busy work. Forcing students who already understand the material to spend time repeatedly demonstrating their understanding just makes them bored and frustrated. I'm equally against monolithic tests that count for huge portions of the grade (memories of the year I caught a nasty cold at the beginning of finals week come to mind).

You say your job is mostly homework. Are you really doing it at home? If so, I pity you. If it's just homework "style" though, keep in mind, you're performing it in a work environment without distractions and for compensation. Homework is done outside the work environment, and the rewards are small, while the alternate activities available are frequently far more engaging.

Re:Exam day (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084683)

Just worth throwing out that I have yet to see a school which does not say that students should expect anything less than 3 hours of homework per class. Down here in florida schools tend to have 5 classes a day.

Either three states' worth of schools didn't do the math or schools genuinely expect students to spend 22 hours a day working, 7 in school and 15 outside of class.

Re:Exam day (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27085163)

I believe the 3 hours of homework per class is per week, not per day. That would be 30-45 minutes per class per day, or with 5 classes, 2.5-3.75 hours per day. Granted, that could also depend on the caliber of student (stupid kids will probably take longer, and they damn well better, because not everyone can learn at exactly the same pace). 7 hours in class + (approximately) 4 hours of homework + 3 hours of extra curricular activities + 2 hours of *tv = 8 hours of sleep.

Since you only need 6 hours of sleep to handle elementary school, I'd say its reasonable.

*TV could be internet time, or book reading, or "personal time", but it would be 2 unstructured hours.

Re:Exam day (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085975)

per class as each and every class day, everyone I asked was very specific about that, apologies if I worded it ambiguously.

Re:Exam day (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27084431)

You are more than your job. Don't you know that?

Re:Exam day (1)

nine-times (778537) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085375)

For each person that feels as you do, that homework is over emphasized and quizes and tests are under emphasized, I can bet that there are 5 people that feel the opposite way.

I have to say that I hated homework when I was a kid, thought it was pointless and stupid, but as an adult the experience has served me well in some ways. At work, I may be given an assignment like "Write a report on this subject and be ready to present it at a meeting that we're going to have 2 weeks from today." You have to be able to get something like that done without someone standing over your shoulder making sure you do it.

On the other hand, that's not to say that the homework assignments I had as a student were done well. After 6 hours of school each day, I was given another 4 or 5 hours of inane busy work. As I got older, I found it oppressive to think about how much work I was doing that was simply not useful to anyone. Sure, you could say it was helping me educationally, but that was help I didn't want. But I was solving problems that didn't need to be solved because the teacher already knew the answer. I was writing papers that didn't need to be written, since nobody cared about what I had to say.

Every single assignment was simply an exercise in giving back to the teacher the answer that the teacher already knew and already believed. If I did manage to come up with something clever, it was usually marked as "wrong" because it wasn't the answer that the teacher was looking for.

And if you did something wrong, it wasn't like anyone would sit you down and have anything resembling a conversation about how you could do better. It was just "Your wrong, so I'm going to mark you as a failure and punish you. Hopefully this will ensure that you're considered a failure for the rest of your life."

I guess I'm just trying to say that I don't think it's about assigning homework or not assigning homework, taking tests or not taking tests. It's about how we treat kids, what we talk to them about, and what attitudes we display towards education and towards the students themselves.

Re:Exam day (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27086497)

Homework can be grueling especially when you need help at the elementary age and no one is there to help you. At $6 per question and with 20+ math problems to solve per night, I doubt this will be abused.

That's hella expensive, I agree. Shit, I've got a math degree from Yale, and I'd undercut those prices by a good 75%. Your average middle school problem would probably take an educated person what, a minute (max?) to do, and assuming a full queue of problems available, even at $1 a question that's $60/hour, which is far more than most college students make...how do they expect to not see competition on price here?

Whatever the case, though, I think the bottleneck here will be the number of students willing to pay any amount for help. Kids don't tend to have access to much money, and it's a pain in the ass for anyone to do online payments.

Maybe not... (1)

Theoboley (1226542) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083763)

Where was this when in was in highschool??? I would've been valedictorian

Already exists? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27083773)

Isn't that what Amazon Mechanical Turk is for?

OTOH, I can't really object to this. It teaches management skills that might be more valuable than whatever the teachers are trying to teach.

Re:Already exists? (1)

Theoboley (1226542) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084079)

Isn't that the start of skynet??? o.O

Siblings (4, Interesting)

Phroggy (441) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083821)

I thought cheating on homework was what older siblings were for.

Not everyone has older siblings, you insensitive clod!

Re:Siblings (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27085915)

Especially in France!

Friends? Classmates? (1)

biocute (936687) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083829)

What happens to kids these days?

When I was in highschool, if I was actually doing homework and stuck, I usually rang up a friend who could help by giving me the answer and I figured out the workings.

If I wasn't doing homework, I could still go to classes earlier, borrowed a completed homework from friends (with choices of solution techniques) and copied as required.

Re:Friends? Classmates? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27086435)

It's more a case of what's happened to teachers and lecturers these days. I'm currently in the second year of a CS degree, and about 60% of the exercises I've been set are either going to be utterly worthless to me upon graduation, or have already been covered in the last 2 years of education. When I complain to my head of School, they don't give a shit and threaten to kick me out unless I take hours out of my day to do a series of time-wasting team meetings and exercises. The answer? Plagiarise everything that takes up useful time, and spend more time on the things that matter. This might sound a bit arrogant, but I'm prioritising my education over jumping through hoops for a bunch of disinterested academics.

Why ?!? I protest !!! (1)

DrYak (748999) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083881)

As a geek which, in his young years, managed to earn quite a lot of money (and other stuff) be helping my peers, I have to ask :

WHY ?!?!?

Why depriving future generations of geeks of an easy way to earn cash from less brilliant boys and/or dates from beautiful but broke (in addition to less brilliant) girls ?

This website takes aways the only reason for geeks to get out of their basement and socialize.

If you need help to do you homework, just ask the shy bespectacled geek. Give him somem money donate some hardware or take him out to a dinner or to a dance floor.

Of course... (1)

cephalien (529516) | more than 5 years ago | (#27083993)

Nothing says that they'll pay for the -right- answer.

And personally, I'd be rather wary of paying $100 for a presentation, since if you don't know the material it's going to be pretty obvious anyway. You'll be out a lot of cash, and still look like an idiot when you get asked a question.

So I'm all for it. The creator is right. They'll have to learn the material sooner or later, because nobody will be able to buy answers on exam day. He might as well make some easy money off of anyone gullible enough to do this.

HOW? (1)

Arthurio (1392181) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084017)

My question is HOW? ...is this news? Websites like that have been all over the web for years and years.

Poorly educated children... (1)

M-RES (653754) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084139)

The damning indictment of the education system in general missed by the existence of this website is that the kids haven't figured out that Google is FREE! :o

It's shocking the number of kids on Yahoo! Answers who ask questions (obviously for homework assignments) that a simple Google search would answer for them.

insolence? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27084167)

Shouldn't the summary have been "indolence" for lazy? Because if it was insolence(arrogance) they restated themselves...

Homework... (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084281)

Homework should be used as a teaching tool, not as a measure of success. Homework tracks your progress through a chapter, and can be used to identify what areas of the material you need to study more. Tests should be the majority of the grade, since they are a measure of the final result of the learning...and material should be retested in smaller amounts later. Graded homework is too easy to BS. Getting someone else to do it, finding answers posted online, etc. With a heavier emphasis on tests, the benefit of cheating on homework disappears...and the testing environment is easier to control than any homeworking environment.

Re:Homework... (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 5 years ago | (#27086131)

I think grades as a whole are not a measure of success. For one, when I got bad grades in high school, it wasn't really that I wasn't trying, it was that I didn't click with my teacher. Some teachers I just understood, they could explain something once and I could ace every test on it, for others they could explain something for an entire semester and I still would not fully understand it. This happened most often in math, something I am admittedly not great at to this day (coding comes easy-ish to me, but for algebra.... not so much). Some years when I had great math teachers I would have straight As, other years when I had math teachers who couldn't teach worth a crap, I ended up with Ds. Now, I was not the only one, there were several tests in which over half my class failed, not because we didn't try but the teacher simply could not teach. The worst part about math was, when I figured out a different way to do something, I was punished because I didn't do it "The right way". In the real world though, the work doesn't matter, just the answers. This is something that I don't think that a lot of teachers have realized, if I can write a web browser in Python that is as good/fast as one in C, it doesn't matter that I used an "uglier" programming method of doing it. Just as long as it works.

We had to develop a policy for homework questions (1)

ribuck (943217) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084327)

We regularly get homework questions asked (for payment) at uclue.com [uclue.com] . Most of the researchers don't like to answer homework questions, so we developed the following policy:

"We are delighted to assist customers with their homework. We can provide information, explanations, links and resources. We do not provide homework answers in finished form, such as essays or answers to tests."

Additionally, we have a clarification process so that we can discuss the homework with the customer and help to educate them. If we were to provide raw answers we would feel very ... empty.

Frequency of tests (2, Informative)

PearsSoap (1384741) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084345)

In France, it's not uncommon to have in-class tests every week or two, in every subject. So it would be hard to not do any work for a very long time without it being noticed.

Re:Frequency of tests (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27084651)

In France, it's not uncommon to have in-class tests every week or two, in every subject. So it would be hard to not do any work for a very long time without it being noticed.

Umm, is that not the norm? I'm in the U.S., and when I was in school I would, in almost every class, get at least a test a week. In some classes like physics I could even get as many as three tests a week.

Probable fake (1)

Aldrikh (1493099) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084429)

According to http://www.arretsurimages.net/vite.php?id=3559 [arretsurimages.net] (in french) the "teacher" team members do not exist.

Given the fact that the website owner comes from a marketing school, has closed the site until monday morning, and the overall reaction it caused, it's actually very likely to be a buzz for something else.

Basically, the provocative theme was chosen only to have medias talk about the site owner

In two words (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27084703)

bri-lliant

Development Based 'Montessori' education (1)

psnyder (1326089) | more than 5 years ago | (#27084751)

I urge anyone that's reading this and has children to look into the 'Montessori Method' of education. It's "development" based, rather than "memory / regurgitation" based. It uses knowledge to build the connections in the brain, rather than having the focus be on rote memorization of the knowledge itself.

In their Ted lecture [ted.com] , the creators of Google mentioned that they incorporated Montessori's method into their company. If you study up on the method and how they run their company, you can see the similarities.

Also...

On the Barbara Walters ABC-TV Special "The 10 Most Fascinating People Of 2004" Larry Page and Sergey Brin, founders of the popular Internet search engine Google.com, credited their years as Montessori students as a major factor behind their success. When Barbara Walters asked if the fact that their parents were college professors was a factor behind their success, they said no, that it was their going to a Montessori school where they learned to be self-directed and self-starters. They said that Montessori education allowed them to learn to think for themselves and gave them freedom to pursue their own interests.

But be careful. The word 'Montessori' is not trademarked, and schools and certification programs have popped up that have very little to do with this development based approach. You as a parent would need to do a little homework on the method, the school, and the teachers, and find a good fit. I think our children are worth it though.

Re:Development Based 'Montessori' education (1)

incognito84 (903401) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085449)

Unfortunately, Western education will never change on the large scale. While the idea of Montessori schools is great, they will only ever be realized by small groups of parents and organizations that think "out of the box".

Re:Development Based 'Montessori' education (1)

psnyder (1326089) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085703)

A number of inner-city public schools in Milwaukee that were in trouble have converted to the Montessori method. A study was published in Science magazine [sciencemag.org] and gave promising results [montessori.org] .

Maybe not in this century, but there are a number of Montessori schools all over the world, and it's growing.

I just wish it had a different name. Saying 'Montessori' to distinguish it from the traditional 'sit and listen to a lecture' style currently found in most public schools unfortunately makes it sound 'alternative' and not based on the empirical evidence as it is.

Re:Development Based 'Montessori' education (1)

incognito84 (903401) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085897)

It's just unfortunate that the process of education has hardly changed at all in the last two-hundred years,

despite the advancements in the understanding of cognitive functions since then and the new technologies made available.

I graduated from High School within the past five years and even then, there wasn't a working computer to be found in the entire school. In talking to people who finished more recently and in hearing about others still in High School, it still seems like little is changing ("we still have no available computers at school" / "there is no budget for toilet paper so students have to bring their own" / "our newest textbooks are from 1992 / I found your name carved in one of them!") etc.

The "sit'n'listen" method has been disproven over and over again, even moreso in the past couple decades with the rise of certain technologies, yet hardly anything seems to be done about it.

Re:Development Based 'Montessori' education (1)

psnyder (1326089) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085451)

I hit 'submit' too soon.

The point is, this kind of problem would never occur in a Montessori school, mainly because no homework is forced. The worksheet, fill-in-the-blank style homework, that this website circumvents, is extremely inefficient when thinking in terms of 'development'. And the low amount of brain activity while following the rigid instructions and mechanically filling in a few blanks is not at all conducive to long term memory either. Not when you compare it to anything like working with your hands, dealing with the real world, or working with autodidactic materials (educational materials that one learns with, can experiment with, and has a built in control of error so that nearly everything can be figured out without the help of an adult).

Yes, if you drill something over and over enough times, you may be able to spit it back out (with or without comprehension), but from a developmental perspective, the time would be better spent with just about any other activity (except maybe TV). Hopefully, with this website, children will get a little more time to work on other projects that they're truly interested in, or even working on social skills, or figuring out who they are as human beings.

Re:Development Based 'Montessori' education (2, Insightful)

PPH (736903) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085649)

It uses knowledge to build the connections in the brain, rather than having the focus be on rote memorization of the knowledge itself.

The only 'connections' that Faismesdevoirs develops are the kinds involving how to use your money and influence to get other people to do your job. This isn't an educational method (like Montessori is). It teaches people how to weasel out of doing actual work.

Re:Development Based 'Montessori' education (1)

psnyder (1326089) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085783)

I don't mean connections as in 'ideas', I mean physical, neural connections in the brain. And you're right, this website doesn't help development. But neither do the worksheets. I wrote more about this here [slashdot.org] .

Re:Development Based 'Montessori' education (1)

Mozk (844858) | more than 5 years ago | (#27086287)

My little story about Montessori education:

I was having such a hard time dealing with all the bullshit of traditional education that in the middle of seventh grade I was ready to try anything else. I switched to a Montessori program (at the same school) and stayed the rest of that year and all of eighth grade. Honestly the year and a half I had there were the best damn years of my life. The environment and experience was a much better fit for me, I had a lot of fun, and I actually learned more than I would have in a traditional setting. But after that there was no high school level program, so I went to a traditional high school. I was so used to guiding my own learning and teaching myself in my own ways that I was completely unable to readapt to the bullshit and had so many problems thereafter. I hated school and constantly failed classes, not due to lack of ability, as any of my teachers would tell you, but because I had a complete lack of bullshit motivation.

Still, I love the program's ideas and wish I would have started earlier.

Tidbit (1)

mitch_feaster (1193053) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085333)

I can't vouch for the direct translation in French, but it's interesting to see how words in certain phrases resemble words from different languages, especially in closely related languages like French and Portuguese.
In Portuguese:
Faz = do
meus = my
deveres = duties

Isn't the definition of a duty something that you're supposed to do??

Re:Tidbit (1)

mkiwi (585287) | more than 5 years ago | (#27086005)

The French translation is perfect. By using the tu form (fais) of faire (to do), they're trying to make it sound like they're your homework buddy. Kind of disgusting how they market it that way.

fais = you (familiar) do
mes = my
devoirs = homework (in this translation)

Actually that's good for society! (5, Funny)

rpp3po (641313) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085429)

Rich kids buying themselves out of good education increases the probability for wasting their families fortune when they grow up. Honest, hardworking fellows will be happy to fill in the space.

Rich people getting richer with each generation aren't a good thing for any economy. Deterring work ethics of descendants, who never had to work in their live, have corrected this for centuries.

Re:Actually that's good for society! (4, Insightful)

psnyder (1326089) | more than 5 years ago | (#27085907)

I wish I had mod points to mark this funny.

In all seriousness though, the goal should be to bring up the lower class to the higher level, not to lower the upper class to the lower level. They're not the same thing. While the overall value of money stays the same in economics, the actual, real-world worth is what we should focus on.

Think of the Jetsons, complaining that they're poor and can only afford that huge house and the older type robot housekeeper. Lowering the productivity of the upper class is not the same as raising the productivity of the lower class.

Re:Actually that's good for society! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27086833)

You make good points, and yet, there are counterpoints to be made, too. I mean, the earlier post isn't talking about stealing productivity; it's talking about spoiled rich kids who decided not to ever become productive naturally squandering their inherited wealth. The heirs who *do* produce *do* stay wealthy.

Aside from that, IMO, perpetual family wealth is the very definition of aristocracy and nearly opposite of meritocracy. We know that Power isn't supposed to be hereditary, but if Money is Power and Money is hereditary, we're back where we started off. Given how much it costs to be in politics these days, and how much you can get away with if you can afford the best lawyers, and how you can pay lower taxes on the kind of income available to the rich than what the middle class pays... Money is definitely Power. We as a nation can survive a bunch of spoiled rich kids being bratty, but we can't survive political dynasties owning the government and setting the laws for themselves.

This could help U.S. students. (2, Funny)

enrevanche (953125) | more than 5 years ago | (#27086033)

This is a great way to get Americans to learn a foreign language.

Brief Summary (2, Funny)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 5 years ago | (#27086645)

French students surrender their learning skills to a website.

Voila! :)

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