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S3 Linux Driver Outperforms Its Windows Twin In Nexuiz

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the battle-of-the-benchmarks dept.

Graphics 75

An anonymous reader writes "Chrome Center has done some benchmarks with the proprietary S3 Chrome 400/500 Driver on Linux and Windows. They compared Nexuiz frame rates on a Phenom II system with a S3 430 GT — the surprising result: The Linux driver outperforms its Windows equivalent, offering frame rates about twice as high on average. The question now: Is the Linux driver that good or the Windows driver that bad?"

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Only Minimum framereat changes (4, Interesting)

BigBuckHunter (722855) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099071)

What is curious is that only the minimum framerate seems to change (which bumps up the average). The max remains the same, which may indicate that the benchmark is CPU bound.

BBH

Re:Only Minimum framereat changes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27099131)

Also, the average framerates change. Could also be the whole WDDM "graphics card scheduler" thing screwing up.

Re:Only Minimum framereat changes (1)

grantek (979387) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099217)

Yeah, I wonder how much of the difference is Windows+Nexuiz vs. Linux+Nexuiz, excluding the driver aspect.

Re:Only Minimum framereat changes (1)

H3g3m0n (642800) | more than 5 years ago | (#27112029)

I also wounder if its because Nexuiz is OpenGL. So the difference between OpenGL Linux vs OpenGL Windows and also Direct3D should be considered.

Re:Only Minimum framereat changes (3, Insightful)

JorDan Clock (664877) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099225)

No, the max remains the same because the hardware remains the same. The maximum framerates are from the hardware being pushed to its limit in this particular benchmark.

What I'm interested in is a timeline of the benchmark. I want to see how long each run stays are maximum and minimum. I'm curious as to how consistent the framerates are for either OS.

Re:Only Minimum framereat changes (4, Funny)

GMFTatsujin (239569) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099553)

I thought it was the song that remains the same.

I must be getting old.

Re:Only Minimum framereat changes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103233)

Now I clown around when I hang around with the Underground
girls used to frown, say I'm down, when I come around
gas me and when they pass me they use to diss me
harrass me, but now they ask me if they can kiss me
Get some fame, people change, wanna live they life high
same song, can't go wrong, if I play the nice guy
claimin' that they must have changed, just because we came strong
I remain, still the same cause it's the same song

All around the world same song
All all around the world same song

Re:Only Minimum framereat changes (2, Interesting)

Workaphobia (931620) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099551)

Nexuiz is notoriously unoptomized in its model vertex count and perhaps other areas. I wouldn't be surprised if it's CPU bound in ways that other games aren't.

Re:Only Minimum framereat changes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27110757)

You're most likely right. It was built on the darkplaces engine, which is the original Quake engine with a load of modern graphical effects bolted on.

CPU has always been the bottleneck when it comes to Quake.

I would say the latter... (2, Insightful)

Fallen Kell (165468) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099093)

The windows driver is just that bad. It probably has tons of bloat and previous artifacts from older video drivers that were simply copy/pasted into the new one, with many obsolete functions, while the linux version was recently written from scratch and does not have that issue.

Oh FP?

Re:I would say the latter... (1)

anss123 (985305) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099271)

The windows driver is just that bad. It probably has tons of bloat and previous artifacts from older video drivers that were simply copy/pasted into the new one, with many obsolete functions, while the linux version was recently written from scratch and does not have that issue.

OpenGL is such a large API that it's possible that Nexuiz runs faster on linux since the linux drivers does a better job with some calls. Perhaps Nexuiz was one of the games the Linux devs used in their testing.

IOW, it's possible that the Windows drivers perform better on other games.

Re:I would say the latter... (1)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099917)

IOW, it's possible that the Windows drivers perform better on other games.

Like Nethack.
Although more seriously: Actually testing whether Windows drivers perform better on other games is rather unfeasible. True 1:1 comparisons are limited to games that exist onto both platforms (Doom, Nexuiz, BZFlag...). Anything else starts depends on the quality of WINE.

Graphic features? (3, Interesting)

FadedTimes (581715) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099245)

Perhaps the windows driver has some graphic features enabled and the linux one does not (like trlinear filtering, shaders, etc). Not enough tech output to make a good conclusion.
way back in Quake 3 days I thought Linux was running Quake3 faster than Windows on my nvidia card, only to realize the linux driver did not have one of the graphics features turned on, which caused it to run faster with the same in game settings.

Re:Graphic features? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27099799)

The Vista graphics path is roughly the same as having compiz enabled under Linux. I wouldn't be surprised if the Linux benchmarks were with compiz turned off...

Re:Graphic features? (1)

anss123 (985305) | more than 5 years ago | (#27100069)

The Vista graphics path is roughly the same as having compiz enabled under Linux. I wouldn't be surprised if the Linux benchmarks were with compiz turned off...

Most fullscreen games disable WDDM on Vista, but even if Nexuiz don't WDDM is not much of a performance hit as long as you got enough graphic memory for whatever WDDM needs + the game.

Hopefully in future versions of Windows it will be impossible to turn off WDDM.

Re:Graphic features? (1)

anss123 (985305) | more than 5 years ago | (#27100101)

Uh, meant to say Aero. WDDM is Windows Display Driver Model.

Re:Graphic features? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102965)

Hopefully in future versions of Windows it will be impossible to turn off WDDM.

Ok, I know you meant Aero...

Why would you want that?

I'm using KDE4, and I love the ability to flip off the compositing on a whim. Maybe my video card just sucks, but I do notice that it makes fullscreen video and games smoother. I do sometimes find myself wishing that fullscreen games would automatically disable it, so I didn't have to remember to flip that switch myself -- although it is, literally, a toggle switch as a widget on my desktop.

It seems to me kind of like being glad Windows can't boot without a video card. Why would I want a video card in a headless machine?

Re:Graphic features? (1)

anss123 (985305) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103091)

Why would you want that?

I got two monitors. On games that don't turn off aero I can use the secondary monitor to surf the web, and if that's impossible (some apps stop the mouse from going to the second monitor) alt+tab is much quicker. Also apps and games that turn off aero has to be closed to get aero back on - which means I can't pause a game and have the windows desktop behave the way I'm now used to.

It seems to me kind of like being glad Windows can't boot without a video card.

Windows can't boot wihout a video card?

Re:Graphic features? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103901)

On games that don't turn off aero I can use the secondary monitor to surf the web, and if that's impossible (some apps stop the mouse from going to the second monitor) alt+tab is much quicker.

Ah, I see.

On Windows, it actually bugs the hell out of me that games both insist on running on my "primary" monitor (the one with the taskbar, which ever it happens to be), and won't turn off the other one -- which is why I have a black desktop background on it. I see your point for games like MMOs, that I'd be playing a lot, and might want to have a guide or an IM window open -- but for single-player games like a Half-Life episode, I'd much rather not have the distraction.

On Linux, I tend to keep my MMOs in a window, for just the reason you're describing, and because one monitor is 1920x1200, and the other is 1920x1080, and the MMO will run quite happily with far less space.

Windows can't boot wihout a video card?

Right. It has to have one, be it onboard, an actual card in a slot, external, whatever.

Contrast to the various Unices -- Linux can use a serial terminal instead, and I believe it's possible to have no output at all, other than being able to SSH in.

Believe it or not, people actually try to justify this. The main justification seems to be "it's not a big deal", which I can buy -- GUIs are no longer a proportionately large drain on resources (unless you're running Aero on that server), and most motherboards already have onboard video, which adds maybe a few pennies to the cost due to economies of scale.

However, it still seems moronic that I don't have the choice -- how difficult can it be to simply disable the graphical subsystem? Doesn't it kind of show that Windows was never meant to be a server OS?

The other justification is much weaker -- trying to describe more modern systems of hooking systems together to be monitored and managed. Well, guess what? Serial ports still work just as well, and are generally easier to plug into another machine for remote management or scripting -- and a properly working box and SSH works even better. A well-designed network would include enough redundancy that when a box goes down, you simply let others take over, replace it with a brand-new box, then physically repair the old one at your leisure, during which time I still can't imagine a video card would be incredibly useful, or incredibly difficult to add on the fly.

Sorry about that... I had to rant. Every now and then, someone comes up with yet another idea that will save Linux, or bring us closer to the Year of the Linux Desktop, in the form of something stupid like "Let's ditch X and put all the graphical stuff in the kernel!"

Re:Graphic features? (0, Troll)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103967)

Believe it or not, people actually try to justify this.

I presume by "justify" you mean "look at me funny and say 'why the hell do you care'" ?

However, it still seems moronic that I don't have the choice -- how difficult can it be to simply disable the graphical subsystem? Doesn't it kind of show that Windows was never meant to be a server OS?

No. Not in the slightest. Why would it ? Nobody except OCD, anal-retentive UNIX nerds would even give it a second thought, let alone expend effort trying to "fix" such a non-problem, so why would the Windows NT developers at Microsoft ?

Sorry about that... I had to rant. Every now and then, someone comes up with yet another idea that will save Linux, or bring us closer to the Year of the Linux Desktop, in the form of something stupid like "Let's ditch X and put all the graphical stuff in the kernel!"

None of the "graphical stuff" in Windows is in the kernel. Some parts of it run in *kernel mode* (depending on the particular version), but that's not the same thing (and it's no different to, for example, the kernel modules used by ATI, nVidia, et al).

Re:Graphic features? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#27108019)

I presume by "justify" you mean "look at me funny and say 'why the hell do you care'" ?

That's part of it, yes. You'd know the other part if you bothered to read the rest of my post.

Nobody except OCD, anal-retentive UNIX nerds

And embedded system designers. Not all of them are iPhones.

None of the "graphical stuff" in Windows is in the kernel.

No, I didn't say it was. However, I still don't know a way of running a desktop or server Windows OS without a video card.

Again: Why would this be at all difficult?

Re:Graphic features? (1)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 5 years ago | (#27108133)

And embedded system designers. Not all of them are iPhones.

Here I was thinking we were discussing the retail versions of Windows.

Again: Why would this be at all difficult?

It probably isn't. However, you need to justify the development change itself (and the work involved), the QA, and support for both it, and all the stuff it breaks. Where's the payoff for that in making a group of people happy who would almost certainly never be your customers in the first place ?

Re:Graphic features? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#27110199)

you need to justify the development change itself (and the work involved), the QA, and support for both it, and all the stuff it breaks.

I'm including that under "not very hard". How much QA would you need? How much support -- and why not call it an unsupported feature? Is there really that much chance it would break anything, especially if left off by default?

Where's the payoff for that in making a group of people happy who would almost certainly never be your customers in the first place ?

That assumes you're right about "anal-retentive Unix nerds", which I'm disputing.

So your argument amounts to, it would be really easy, but they can't do it because they're a large company, which means any feature must serve a purpose, and costs quite a bit more than it should due to large amounts of Process involved (QA, etc).

And yet, they approve things like Clippy. And Windows ME. And, for that matter, various little utilities like the CD Player, or Sound Recorder. Where's the payoff for these? Surely they must require much more effort than disabling something!

Re:Graphic features? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27111317)

On Windows, it actually bugs the hell out of me that games both insist on running on my "primary" monitor (the one with the taskbar, which ever it happens to be), and won't turn off the other one -- which is why I have a black desktop background on it.

Your monitor doesn't have a manual off button?

Re:Graphic features? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#27114005)

Internal laptop monitor? No, not really.

I suppose the CRT/LCD button might work...

Re:Graphic features? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102727)

mmmm yes, it must be some terrible mistake, not windows! we failed the test? The test must be unfair! yes thats the ticket, lets assume that and feel better about our choices!

Other reasons (3, Insightful)

Dogun (7502) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099279)

There should be benchmarks for how other cards perform as well. It could just be Nexuiz isn't performant under load on windows.

Vista (5, Interesting)

mrphoton (1349555) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099425)

I note that the tests were done using windows vista. I wonder if this could have anything to do with the encrypted video path.

Re:Vista (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27099921)

How is this a Troll?

Oh, yeah, Microsoft employees lurk here and sometimes get mod points. I almost forgot.

Re:Vista (1, Informative)

Dogun (7502) | more than 5 years ago | (#27101335)

A moderation of Troll would have been correct. The comment introduces an unlikely culprit that doesn't apply in this scenario as an opportunity to gripe about something that isn't even on-topic.

Re:Vista (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102795)

Basically it is a post for all the DRM nutcases who think everything is to blame on it, unbelievable people are still trying to pin performance issues in the OS/games/etc on DRM.

Hey you got a funny itch on your body, Blame it on DRM. Fucking nerds so schizophrenic sometimes, but I love them.

Fucking retards that get modded up over the DRM argument, DRM sucks but it doesn't affect performance like some people would like to believe.

Is that the parrot reaction also to anybody who challenges Linux oriented people that they are a paid MS employee, how about they don't give a shit about either of them and only want the best tools for their job.

Dogun explained the civilized way.

Re:Vista (3, Interesting)

rusl (1255318) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103151)

Why wouldn't it be DRM related? I don't know anything technical about this DRM and I am an anti-DRM zealot. ...And, it seems logical that no matter how well executed, DRM is an extra step on something (video output) that should logically imply some sort of cost for that extra step and if this is a very competitive field why shouldn't DRM have an impact?

Dogun just says that other cards should be compared which seems not to have anything to do with DRM... Unless this is the only card with DRM or something?

Seriously, I'd like to know because I'll admit I have no idea. How does the DRM impact things?

Re:Vista (2, Informative)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104025)

Why wouldn't it be DRM related? I don't know anything technical about this DRM and I am an anti-DRM zealot. ...And, it seems logical that no matter how well executed, DRM is an extra step on something (video output) that should logically imply some sort of cost for that extra step and if this is a very competitive field why shouldn't DRM have an impact?

Because the DRM is only active if you are playing back DRM-encumbered media with a DRM-capable player. I think it's reasonably safe to assume that neither of those conditions apply in this situation.

Seriously, I'd like to know because I'll admit I have no idea. How does the DRM impact things?

If you don't have DRM-encumbered media, it doesn't.

And how does it tell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27120095)

It checks every so often (or not so often) that it hasn't been told *at the beginning* "this is A-OK".

And each test takes time where it cannot let the data through just in case it's going to leak information on DRM'd content.

Or do you have the source code???

Re:Vista (2, Informative)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104029)

I note that the tests were done using windows vista. I wonder if this could have anything to do with the encrypted video path.

Only if this Nexuiz thing enables the Protected Path. Do you seriously think it does ?

About Nexuiz (1)

anss123 (985305) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099475)

Having never heard of this game I checked out the webpage. I see it's based on the Darkplaces engine, which is based on the Quake engine open sourced by ID Software back in the day.

The game's screenshots reminds me more of Unreal Tournament than Quake though. Has anyone here played it? What does it play like?

Re:About Nexuiz (2, Informative)

coolsnowmen (695297) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099619)

Nexuiz (2.4.2) plays like UT, a fast paced FPS. It is my favorite free linux game (not that anyone elses favorite is worse, but this one is mine).

The new version (svn) adds many features like teams and CTF, a better scoreboard, and is also much prettier (updated textures).

Re:About Nexuiz (1)

anss123 (985305) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099715)

Cool, thanks. Quake style bunny jumping is so off putting that UT was a breath of fresh air back in the day. Assuming Nexuiz does not have that lame translocator thing (ruined UT for me) I'll take a closer look.

Re:About Nexuiz (1)

coolsnowmen (695297) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099845)

What is "translocator"?

There is still this "laser" weapon that allows you to rocket jump at a small sacrifice to your own health. But that is usually only useful for navigating the level, or maybe I'm just not that good.

Re:About Nexuiz (1)

anss123 (985305) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099963)

It's a teleporting device. There are no drawbacks to using it and good UT players can use it as a weapon and speed around the map, unfortunately I'm just not having fun when players randomly disappear and reappear all over the place. I'm too much of a casual player I guess.

Re:About Nexuiz (1)

coolsnowmen (695297) | more than 5 years ago | (#27100071)

Ohhhhhh, now I remember. No, they don't have that in nexuiz.

Re:About Nexuiz (1)

bvimo (780026) | more than 5 years ago | (#27101259)

Nexuiz 2.4.2 does not have a translocator device. But, the latest version has a Porto weapon, divVerent the lead developer spent a long time last July and August writing the code for it.

Nexuiz 2.5 is about to be released.

Bunny hopping (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#27106533)

Quake style bunny jumping is so off putting

Would it be as off-putting if the character models looked like cartoon rabbits or hares?

Re:About Nexuiz (1)

bvimo (780026) | more than 5 years ago | (#27101223)

Nexuiz has had CTF for ever, as well as Key Hunt (my personal favourite) and lots of other game types. The only new game type added since 2.4.2 is Onslaught. Blub's new scoreboard is very good, the developers have added a team score element to CTF.

Nexuiz 2.5 is about to be released, although the developers keep on adding new features (shakes head). You can download the code and compile it yourself, it's very easy.

Re:About Nexuiz (1)

coolsnowmen (695297) | more than 5 years ago | (#27101301)

Then did they just add it to single player? Because I don't remember it being in the campaign for 2.4.2.

Re:About Nexuiz (1)

gbarules2999 (1440265) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102137)

Onslaught only had one map in 2.4.2 (and it was just a testing bed for further development) and the bots didn't support the gametype, so no, it wasn't in the campaign.

Re:About Nexuiz (1)

electrosoccertux (874415) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099713)

I don't like the physics system. There's too much sliding-- path dependency. Feels almost like Tribes/Legends*.

The grapple is a neat gameplay element, but the implementation is terrible-- the line from you to the grapple point jitters back and forth across the screen.

Legends is a free Tribes game; worth checking out.

So what? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27099549)

How is this at all surprising?

Anyone who's done any serious graphics or GPGPU programming on Linux, and Windows (excluding Vista/7 with their fucked WDDM - and significantly slower api calls) - knows Linux practically always performs as good or better (and admittedly, in some cases slower too) than Windows (true for Intel, nVidia, and S3), assuming you're running on a rather bulky X11 server (eg: xorg), and with custom lightweight X11, things only get better.

Re:So what? (0, Troll)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#27101587)

You (yes, you) know (do you?), it's (well, it might not be, but who knows) really hard (not easy, at least according to me) to read (decypher) your post.

It could be even better if we had the source code. (1)

averner (1341263) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099731)

And in this case we are entitled to it.

Apparently, the drivers are supposed to be GPL, but no actual source was released. [phoronix.com]

Re:It could be even better if we had the source co (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27100423)

yes, just like the Open Source radeon driver outperforms the fglrx at miles! oh, wait..

Re:It could be even better if we had the source co (1)

averner (1341263) | more than 5 years ago | (#27100841)

That's just a matter of less people working on the open source driver than the closed source one. If we had all of those people who are working on the proprietary driver work on the open source driver instead, I'm sure that the open source driver would be better than the proprietary one currently is. Likely, the main reason they aren't doing this is to avoid letting NVidia in on all their implementation secrets. Even if they GPL it, NVidia could still grab some ideas without actually stealing the source.

The responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the FOSS community to convince ATI that GPLing proprietary driver source code is a smart decision in the long run (and actually releasing that source code, unlike S3). In addition to their current software engineers, they'll receive free help from FOSS enthusiasts in the community - finding and fixing driver bugs should become a lot faster. Plus, they'll have a lot of people switch to their graphics cards out of support. This should outweigh any intelligence NVidia could gain on them from the source.

So the main reason the open source drivers suck is that they have barely any people working on them, compared to the proprietary drivers. ATI's making a slightly larger step than NVidia, but they're not exactly making a lot of effort if seen in absolute terms.


By analogy, if S3 releases their source like it promised by saying their drivers are GPL, it should also do better.

Re:It could be even better if we had the source co (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27101951)

I wish the world was like that one that you described, however looking at the long history of open source drivers in linux kernel there are few times where I see a benefit.

I will give you an example from my experience with open source drivers. You call me a troll and mod me down, as have many forums that I tried to get answers out of.

I bought a cheap little gigabit card for a home built NAS. Just to explain, $15 is within my budget and $100 is not, of course if I could afford an Intel 1gb card than most likely I wouldn't have a problem. Than again I would have a gigabit controller and no motherboard. I use to run the NAS in Windows XP. It ran without any problems, running CIFS/SMB and even FTP. I had solid performance, reasonable speed (35MB/sec) however stable meaning it would sustain itself at 35MB without going down.

I make the decision to move to an open source platform, as I wanted to get a LAMP server running on the box and put it to some good use. I installed my favorite distribution (Ubuntu 7.10) and off the bat no gigabit for my controller, no big deal, there were two drivers I could use, however one delivered 12MB/sec and the other 30MB/sec (easy solution, right?). The problem is that the second driver was also unstable. So here are my options.

Driver A:
- Low Speed
- Consistent
- No Sig Faults

Driver B:
- High Speed
- Lots of up and down
- Sig Faults or connection drops

The problem is that there is a known issue with driver b. The name of it escapes me, has 1000 in the name though. And the only answer I received was that I should have spent money I didn't have and if I didn't like it I should either use 100mbps or stop using Linux. Keep in mind that I went through SuSE and Gentoo. With mixed results on both platforms. But no holy grail.

No offense, however the last thing I want to deal with is a panel of self-loving, nothing-is-broken crowd, which will deny that there is even a problem with the driver. There is no email address, the forums aren't always an answer, there is no incentive to release the drivers on time. Once you put 20 developers in a room, you will get a bureaucracy that makes the communists seem like un-organized anarchists. I do not want to be in a position where I have to wait on a driver for the latest card, because of soap-opera drama going down with the group managing the driver. Not to mention the 2 forks you will get. And lastly the last thing I want to hear from a forum is another disappointment in FOSS where I am told that my computer is too cheap to run well, whereas my old copy of XP doesn't complain. What ever happened to "Linux can run on anything"? So far, anything is as long as it isn't "just anything".

Open source works very well on software, however I am still not convinced when it comes to drivers. If its something old (old SCSI driver or tape drive) I'll give you that, but when it comes to recent hardware, good luck. I, like most people, do not care if a driver is open source. An open source version of the ATI driver still won't make it good. And an open source version of the nVidia driver still won't make it any better. How about we clean our own back yard before chastising the world for being proprietary. How about we make Firefox faster, as the version on a closed source platform seem to run better than on my linux box.

--

Regards,
Poor Anonymous Coward

Re:It could be even better if we had the source co (1)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102541)

It's funny you mention Nvidia since the open source version of the NFORCE drivers were so good that Nvidia tells people to use the in-kernel drivers.

Re:It could be even better if we had the source co (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27101043)

driver probably just claims that to be able to use otherwise forbidden GPL_ONLY symbols - those may be the reason that make it that fast.
But I could understand S3. EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL is spreading all over the kernel, making it harder for developers of closed source kernel modules to actually use interfaces to do their job.
That's the reason, fglrx isn't working on PREEMT kernels (like Sidux and RT Kernels) - some tool writers got the idea of patching the fglrx to tell lies (not Ati) - which was finally 'solved' by adding

if (strcmp(mod->name, "fglrx") == 0)
add__taint_module(mod, TAINT_PROPRIETARY_MODULE);
to modules.c

get kdawson a new job! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27099733)

we know that bitch is a fuck up of an editor. he's a waste of human life. i'm sure his parents hang their heads in shame. fucking shitball.

Re:get kdawson a new job! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27099887)

Posting on Slashdot during recess? In my day we played a mean game of four-square instead of trolling.

You had four-square? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27100241)

In my day, we had to make our square with only a line segment; We then went outside to punch ourselves silly until that line segment started drifting appart into a mirror image of itself to square. And we liked it when kdawson brought a pack of Zimmas and Rammstein boombox afterwards! (*rubs nipple*)

Re:You had four-square? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27101101)

luxury. In my day we could only dream about having recess while we worked 25 hours a day in the mines.

Re:get kdawson a new job! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27100425)

boy, you guys are really taking these layoffs hard [blogspot.com] , aren't you.

yet another (3, Insightful)

Bizzeh (851225) | more than 5 years ago | (#27099967)

yet another meaningless statistic of "Program X runs better on System Y because driver Z is faster on said system"..

Vista Drivers not XP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27100111)

The drivers were Vista not XP. This may be a potential reason why there is a performance difference in the drivers. Personally I would like to see an XP benchmark.

Frame rate twice as high.. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27100357)

You mean it's 2fps instead of 1fps?

This is S3 we're talking about right?

Silly tag (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27100549)

What does wind river sucking have to do with drivers?

XKCD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27100725)

Someway this reminds me to today's xkcd [xkcd.com] ..

Horrible stats (0, Flamebait)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 5 years ago | (#27101149)

These statistics are useless. You can't just test one game and draw your conclusions to be that it's the driver.

At least test with more then one game you cherry picked because it gives faster speeds. That's the kind of shit Microsoft does.

I hope this author gets banned from slashdot because I fucking hate these kind of tactics.

Re:Horrible stats (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103421)

Hello! I'm Stefan of Chrome-Center, first of all, I didn't post this Slashdot entry!

To comment my article on Chrome-Center: This article is made to expand over time. It's rather difficult to find benchmarks for both Windows and Linux. There's Unigine but the demos won't run with Linux nor Windows OpenGL with the current drivers. And any other tests are quite large and my download rate is rather limited so it just takes some time to get them.

It wasn't also meant that this "article" get widespread like this! I only wrote to an author of Phoronix because there were some doubts about the quality of the Linux driver. And then it was published there and now here...

I will now run Quake 4 Benchmark and Doom 2 will be done tomorrow.

One Word about using Windows Vista or XP: Since Chrome 400/500 Series are DirectX 10.1 compliant, S3 Graphics focuses the driver development on Windows Vista! There are many features (like MultiChrome) only available on the Vista drivers, so it's very doubtful that Windows XP would make any difference in speed.

S3 actually cares about Linux now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102067)

S3 actually cares about Linux now? When did that happen?

Re:S3 actually cares about Linux now? (1)

hattig (47930) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104159)

Well if they have any sense, they'll realise that their products are more suited for nettops and netbook (lapbook?) type products, and a lot of these are using Linux because they're cheap devices that Windows adds too much cost to. So it's +$50 for XP, or $0 + desktop effects in Linux.

Of course a lot of this is dependent on their parent company VIA actually releasing Nano in meaningful quantities, and the current S3 graphics core getting into VIA chipsets (I think the chipsets are stuck at Chrome 3).

Obligatory bad car analogy (3, Funny)

PPH (736903) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102143)

The S3 drivers for Windows and Linux are like a Ferrari and Lamborghini. Pretty close by themselves. But the Ferrari (Windows driver) is hitched to a trailer loaded with a backhoe (Windows).

Re:Obligatory bad car analogy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27105071)

We're talking about S3 here. It's more like a Chevy Geo and a Ford Festiva, except one of them has the air conditioner running.

Single test? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102583)

While I don't particularly doubt the test as it it's not like it hasn't happened before, however, they tested one single game. How do we know it's not something with the game that caused it? Just because a game is cross-platform doesn't mean it performs equally in generally (not driver dependent) in different operating systems. They could have done several games or compared it to different graphics cards running the same game in different operating systems if they wanted to make an announcement with better proof.

Compiz ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103187)

Question is: was Linux running compiz ?

Cauuse running in 3D mode slows down everything a lot ?

Not surprising (1)

Yfrwlf (998822) | more than 5 years ago | (#27105433)

Why should that surprise anyone? They are two OSes. Of course one is going to have better drivers in some cases, worse in other cases. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's intelligent to overlook fundamental differences that can contribute to those differences though, and certainly in comparing the whole OSes against each other, Linux is leaner (yaya it's a kernel I know, shyaddup), so better performance here shouldn't be shocking to anyone. Even some Windows games seem faster in Wine on Linux, but I don't have any frame rate evidence to back that up, plus you have to make sure the game looks identical (same game feature set on both systems).

Wrong question (1)

robo45h (660508) | more than 5 years ago | (#27107187)

The question now: Is the Linux driver that good or the Windows driver that bad?

Wrong question. In fact, that's not even a real question; it's just two sides of the same coin. The real question is whether the Linux driver performs better because it's coded better than the Windows driver, or whether it's because of some deficiencies in the Windows driver architecture, Windows graphics stack or the Windows OS itself. In other words, is this truly a case where Linux is better than Windows? Or is this just a case of one driver being better than another. If it's the latter (as the "question" above implies), they could just write a better Windows driver. Not all that interesting in that case.

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