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Shaming Russia Into Action On Cyber Crime

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the stand-in-the-corner-until-you're-sorry dept.

Security 140

krebsatwpost writes "The Washington Post ran a piece earlier this week that confronts the myth that cyber criminal gangs in Russia and Eastern Europe avoid attacking their own, pointing to numerous examples of late that counter this common misconception. The story draws on data from Team Cyrmu about distributed denial-of-service attacks (DDoS) that target Russian and E. European organizations, intel from McAfee about Russian banks and federal agencies that appear to be under control over cyber gangs there, and tens of gigabytes of data stolen via keyloggers that disproportionately impact Russian systems, including that of a top Gazprom official. The piece begins: 'If you ask security experts why more cyber criminals aren't brought to justice, the answer you will probably hear is that US authorities simply aren't getting the cooperation they need from law enforcement officials in Russia and other Eastern European nations, where some of the world's most active cyber criminal gangs are thought to operate with impunity. But I wonder whether authorities in those countries would be any more willing to pursue cyber crooks in their own countries if they were forced to confront just how deeply those groups have penetrated key government and private computer networks in those regions?'"

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140 comments

Government by criminals (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102361)

If the problem is government by criminals -- if the authorities are to blame -- then get rid of the authorities. Open source it. [metagovernment.org]

It's russia, full of russians, so, uh, who gives a (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103283)

fuck? Let them eat cake! puked up by their "cyber heroes"! Oh wait, that's romania. Hit your reset button to ignore!

In post-Soviet Russia... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102387)

...investigations are not pursued as long as the check clears. Welcome to the U.S.A. in the 1920s & 1930s, Russia.

They've got it wrong! (0, Offtopic)

Notabadguy (961343) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102421)

The tagline is inverted.

In Soviet Russia, cybercrime shames YOU!

Re:They've got it wrong! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102513)

In Soviet Russia, niggers go on Slashdot and post racist jokes about YOU!

So, what do you call a nigger who was born with no arms and no legs? Trustworthy!

Re:They've got it wrong! (1, Offtopic)

Daimanta (1140543) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103803)

MOre like:

In Soviet Russia, if you try to shame the goverment, they will disappear YOU!

Shortsighted if true (1)

causality (777677) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102521)

But I wonder whether authorities in those countries would be any more willing to pursue cyber crooks in their own countries if they were forced to confront just how deeply those groups have penetrated key government and private computer networks in those regions?

There are a few problems that really will go away if you ignore them. This doesn't sound like one of those.

Re:Shortsighted if true (2, Insightful)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102585)

There are a few problems that really will go away if you ignore them. This doesn't sound like one of those.

Given the law enforcement culture of the Russians, I don't see how it would matter either way.

Re:Shortsighted if true (1)

RCL (891376) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103177)

It'd be unfair to say that our (Russian) government ignores that problem. But little can it do to stop a major and profitable business of software/video/etc piracy and cyber crime with its numerous, but underpaid and corrupted police forces.

Re:Shortsighted if true (1)

AaronLawrence (600990) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103551)

So in general, a better economy in Russia should tend to see these things die out?

Re:Shortsighted if true (2, Insightful)

RCL (891376) | more than 5 years ago | (#27105357)

In general, yes. Better economical situation makes law system stronger. Poor economical conditions are likely to result in mafia and other informal structures with their own (usually more complicated and brutal) laws.

That's not something specific to Russia.

Rotten all the way to the head... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27104151)

It'd be unfair to say that our (Russian) government ignores that problem. But little can it do to stop a major and profitable business of software/video/etc piracy and cyber crime with its numerous, but underpaid and corrupted police forces.

Corruption breeds inaction. Much like cancer, you have to remove ALL of it, or it's a pointless move with the same end result.

Re:Shortsighted if true (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27104325)

"As long as Oracle keeps pretending Russia doesn't exist, we'll pretend licensed Oracle software doesn't exist" ((c) [bash.org.ru] )

Obama will write them a nice letter (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102535)

After all that worked so well for asking them to fix Iran.
We offered to sell out the Czechs and Poles (abandon our missile defense) if Russia would lean on & fix Iran and their nuclear problem [france24.com] .
I seem to remember someone else in history offering to sell out the Czechs and the Poles to a belligerent power. Don't remember how that worked out, but I think we got "Peace in our time".

Or we can just reset our relationship with Russia by giving them a red-button that says "overcharge [politico.com] ".

I want to point out how much I support Obama's new "Smart Diplomacy" because not supporting Obama would be racist.

Re:Obama will write them a nice letter (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102693)

I want to point out how much I support Obama's new "Smart Diplomacy" because not supporting Obama would be racist.

Not supporting our President isn't racism, it's TREASON. People like you should be shot.

Dissent is the highest form of ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102929)

Under George Bush: Dissent is the highest form of patriotism
Under Barak Obama: Dissent is the highest form or racism

Re:Obama will write them a nice letter (1)

Cassius Corodes (1084513) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102775)

Hah, I like how you have a faint glimpse of history but lack the intelligence to really grasp the magnitude of it.

Re:Obama will write them a nice letter (1)

Slumdog (1460213) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102831)

...lack the intelligence to really grasp....

A man's reach must exceed his grasp...so they say...for something or the other to wish for.

Re:Obama will write them a nice letter (1)

ShadowRangerRIT (1301549) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103369)

You do realize that the missile defense system is a joke, right? Particularly if you actually expect it to be able to stop a Russian nuclear attack. Agreeing not to deploy an expensive and useless system to prevent another country from actually getting nuclear weapons is a great idea. We save money, give up nothing of consequence, and maybe prevent Iran from acquiring nukes.

I hate to say this. (3, Insightful)

paganizer (566360) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102589)

I really hate to say this. Because I'm a big hater of big government, I support Freenet 0.5, anonymity and privacy.
But things are a little TOO free in Belarus and some of the other Ex-soviet states when it comes to Child Pornography; when you have plain old unsecured websites with for-pay preteen sex shows that have been operating for years without problems, something is WRONG.

Re:I hate to say this. (2, Interesting)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102683)

Because someone in Russia can get the real IP's and real names for say a Texas lawyer, UK law professor or fortune 500 insider?
Over a few years a Russia can drop the addicted westerner a visit and remind them of their weekend web use.
For a few easy, small tasks, it can all be contained.
The East German's did this with West German's who had interesting pasts in WW2.

Re:I hate to say this. (1)

Slumdog (1460213) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102845)

Over a few years a Russia can drop the addicted westerner a visit...

hmm...how many Russia's are active in this business right now, you reckon?

Re:I hate to say this. (2, Interesting)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103005)

Russian side is an unknown, shared files, shared sites, no profit, for profit, same site, resold under 10 different names?
The real number is western credit card use.
Real people buying their way in, thinking the credit card companies would just pass details on as another transaction and the East bloc providers would keep details safe on a HD, connected to username, pw.
So you have 10000 card names in need of pics and vids via 1 site?
All the FSB can do is sort, who is a Dr, grad student who might run a department one day, lawyer, the secretary ect.
Then work out who is in a position to help long term.
A journalist who can get a few positive lines or negative lines in print.
Help with R and D, source code, insider trading, a copy of every document or get a Russian sleeper set up long term.
Russia plays long term with people.

Re:I hate to say this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103249)

I really hate to say this. Because I'm a big hater of big government, I support Freenet 0.5, anonymity and privacy. But things are a little TOO free in Belarus and some of the other Ex-soviet states when it comes to Child Pornography; when you have plain old unsecured websites with for-pay preteen sex shows that have been operating for years without problems, something is WRONG.

Im from ex-soviet country. Im surfing net for 8 years, and as much i like pr0n ;) but i never seen child porn in my country sites. Now you mentioned i tryed to google for it, cant find it eather. If you could point out what internet site and it is in my country domain ill do anything in my power to take it down :(

Re:I hate to say this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27104445)

Oh yeah...send me the links too!

Re:I hate to say this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27105379)

i also was born in the ussr. that you found nothing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. i downloaded some porn one day and after the download was finished i saw that it was child porn and the girls were commandoed what to do in russian.

it was sickening. the original site is down now but you still can find the contents in the edonkey network.

Re:I hate to say this. (1)

celle (906675) | more than 5 years ago | (#27106635)

"when you have plain old unsecured websites with for-pay preteen sex shows that have been operating for years without problems, something is WRONG."

And when we aim ads at children selling shit that is often bad for them, are we any better? Face it, we all use kids for money.
There are also lots of other examples in the west that are accepted and encouraged, much of it is wrong but it's fine as long as money is being made. Hypocrisy seems to be doing just fine in here in America.

Widespread blackouts from Moscow? (1, Flamebait)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102621)

" But I wonder whether authorities in those countries would be any more willing to pursue cyber crooks in their own countries if they
were forced to confront just how deeply those groups have penetrated key government and private computer networks in those regions?'""

In the eyes of the Russia gov they are just learning? Russia was invaded and messed with so many times, why not bone up on the 'internet'?
One day Russia will need the skills the brave apartment dwelling computer experts have learned and shared.
To traverse computer systems worldwide, to enter your power companies Microsoft based "supercomputers" and turn them off in really smart ways.
A point of delivery for your city?
Change the temperature of gas-encased power lines, killing the hardware?
All from a lap-top and modem in a Moscow apartment shared by 2 families and 2 large dogs.
As for the malware that earns valuable hard currency.
The porn rings open up potential blackmail options to the FSB.
Its win win win for Russia. Just dont mess with FSB, or people under the protection of the FSB.

Re:Widespread blackouts from Moscow? (1)

RCL (891376) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103159)

There might be some points in what you say, but I think that your conspiracy theory is way too advanced. Just imagine a secret service chief that relies on basement-dwelling hackers to "bring down supercomputers" of a hostile entity. Or just imagine that you're a secret service officer and you are repeating your above post to your chief.

The real problem with cybercrime is Russia is that government cannot control its own population, has no efficient mechanisms to uphold the law and Russia's own IT industry is too small. Anyway, that's not the largest problem for Russia: the country is probably facing a collapse and/or major riot in Caucasian republics if current financial situation continues for a prolonged period (and yes, I'm Russian and I know better).

Re:Widespread blackouts from Moscow? (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103441)

After decades of trying to use death squads, assassins, protesters, political parties, journalists ect.. "basement-dwelling hackers" would seem a step up.
As for ""bring down supercomputers" of a hostile entity", you dont need your "basement-dwelling hackers" to do that every night or the west will learn and harden.
Moscow just wants a generation thats got the smarts, if and when needed.
The best way to get that is fearless practice.
If your real Ip is spotted by the FBI, Interpol, Canada, South Africa or Brazil, try harder :)

Re:Widespread blackouts from Moscow? (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103527)

All from a lap-top and modem in a Moscow apartment shared by 2 families and 2 large dogs.

In true spirit of /. I'm going to nitpick on technical details. Russia is not Turkmenistan, and you'll be hard pressed to find a working modem in a Moscow apartment these days. 5 to 50 Mbps, ADSL or cable, is more like it.

Re:Widespread blackouts from Moscow? (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103651)

Gary McKinnon, the Uk based, US military hacker only needed a modem :)
Point taken, internet connection would have been more correct.

Re:Widespread blackouts from Moscow? (2, Insightful)

smoker2 (750216) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104179)

Gary McKinnon isn't really a hacker. Most of his transgressions are accounted for by pinging certain US govt IPs looking for open RDP ports, and he got in because they weren't passworded. Apparently this accounts for in excess of $800,000 in damage to their systems. He also related how he used to regularly "bump into" other "hackers" while cruising those systems. He only got caught because he was using a system one day, and the real user saw his mouse moving. McKinnon pretended to be doing a security audit and left quickly. That $800,000 is to cover red faces more than anything. Shame on the UK for turning him over. Up to 70 years in jail for that ? "The US military alleges that Mr McKinnon caused $800,000 of damage and left 300 computers at a US Navy weapons station unusable immediately after the September 11, 2001, terror attacks." I mean, puhlease. Can you make that any more emotionally convicting ?

And we wonder why people are being sued for url traversal. (if you leave it accessible, don't bitch when people access it)

Re:Widespread blackouts from Moscow? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27105663)

DSL and cable internet also use modems, Einstein.

Re:Widespread blackouts from Moscow? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27105097)

"Russia was invaded and messed with so many times, why not bone up on the 'internet'?"

As a person of Polish descent, I would like to say:

"Mwahahahahahahahaha."

Poow owd Wussia. Weawwy.

Blackhole all of Russia (2, Insightful)

rossz (67331) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102623)

Seriously. If they won't deal with the cyber crime and if the majority of cyber crime originates there, give the Russian government a deadline to get their asses in gear or they will be blocked. Getting this done on the backbone might be problematic, but not impossible.

I've already blocked all of Russia and China from accessing my servers because of too many problems from those countries.

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102737)

But where will I order my Russian brides? Or even watch Russian porn!?! :O

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (2, Interesting)

RCL (891376) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103117)

You seem to overestimate the power of our (Russian) government. Asking them to "fix" cyber crime is essentially the same as asking them to make Russia a developed country. They cannot do that just by issuing some law.

Russian cyber crime is rooted in:
  • Poor and passive population
  • Nascent IT industry
  • Weak (or even lack of) law enforcement

I'm afraid that you cannot set any reasonable deadline for a government to fix those problems. If you really wanted to fight cybercrime, you'd be engaged yourself (one who is not willing seeks excuses, one who is, seeks possibilities). But from what you say, you prefer just hiding from Russians and Chineese. Too bad, we can still read you (I'm abroad) :P

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (1)

salarelv (1314017) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103251)

But the government could give out the criminals who the West asks from them. They don't cooperate with other nations. The EU has deadlines for new member states to get some things in order (corruption, law and even the macro economics) why can't a huge country like Russia to do the same. I think also that this is a problem of willingness not the nature and the size of the task.

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (2, Insightful)

RCL (891376) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103295)

I don't know of cases where cybercriminals were saved by Russian government from Western investigators. There are some political cases, not involving cyber crime, though, but it is a highly controversial topic.

And about EU deadlines: I'm afraid I don't believe that Bulgaria and Romania really fulfilled the obligations. In some cases, it's impossible to fight corruption given the country current situation - Russia is such a case, and one of the reasons why is being "huge", as you mention. In order to be effectively managed, Russia should be split into smaller independent states of the same language and culture which would later re-unite (something like US model). Russia is formally a federation, but really it's a feudal state with a single (but highly dependent on his leutenants) king.

Anyway, breaking Russia into parts is utopia and only few percent of my fellow countrymen (Russians) would agree with me, because it effectively means bringing Russia into a civil war and "wild west" way of life for some moment. So there's no easy solution to fight corruption and unlawfullness.

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (2, Insightful)

DiLLeMaN (324946) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103371)

The EU has deadlines for new member states to get some things in order (corruption, law and even the macro economics) why can't a huge country like Russia to do the same

Because comparing a group of nations to one country which recently switched economic model and mindset from communism to "that free thing" is problematic at best.

Not saying that Russia gets a free pass because they had a bad childhood or something, but you can't compare it with Europe. I think their size is actually working *against* them, as well.

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (1)

rossz (67331) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103367)

I never said to "fix" the problem. I said give them a deadline to "get their asses in gear". Perhaps it's a language problem since I used a slang expression. What I was trying to say is give them a deadline to make an _attempt_ at dealing with the problem. From where we are sitting, the Russian government is at best doing nothing, at worse actively working with the criminals.

No one expects an overnight miracle. What we do expect is for Russia to abide by and cooperate with international law. Your heads of state bitched enough about our previous president and international law, so they act like they care. Not that I believe they do.

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (1)

rossz (67331) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103433)

If you really wanted to fight cybercrime, you'd be engaged yourself (one who is not willing seeks excuses, one who is, seeks possibilities). But from what you say, you prefer just hiding from Russians and Chineese.

After thinking about this part of your comment I became a bit annoyed. The world condemns the U.S. for "sticking our noses into other people's business". Now you are condemning us for not sticking our nose into your business. My suggestion of blocking your country is exactly what we should do to deal with the problem without interfering in your internal affairs. You would be free to go about your business online, just not with us. Quite fair and we don't have to worry about any fallout from doing something more drastic. Like nuking your data centers from orbit because it's the only way to be sure.

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (1)

RCL (891376) | more than 5 years ago | (#27105291)

Well, there is a lot of (deluded) people in Russia, who still believe that our country is an equal rival to States, and who are strongly anti-US (actually they're hypocrites who would not reject US money/jobs, if offered). However, such people do not, in general, visit English language sites.

People who work abroad (usually in IT (or financial) industries) are much less conservative. I spoke for myself, not for the majority of my country, who have never met/talked to an American.

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (1)

AlphaCentauri4 (1115313) | more than 5 years ago | (#27106207)

This is what bothers me about this.

The US needs better relations with Russia. We saw things improving for a while. But Putin seemed to think that former Soviet republics and allies becoming friendly with Western Europe meant that they were turning against Russia.

People in the US were hoping relations with Russia would improve to the point where war between our countries would become inconceivable, just as it is inconceivable we would go to war with UK, a country whose army once looted and burned the White House in Washington.

It would help immensely if Russian citizens and US citizens communicated freely. Our countries are making policies based on what we're imagining people in the other country think, instead of actually listening. But instead, discussion forums in the US are blocking all visitors from Russia due to the number of forum spammers and hackers from those ranges.

There are some Russian internet companies that seem to have made a real commitment to shutting down spammers. Reports about spam for free hosting sites on pochta.ru sites are dealt with very promptly, for instance. We need to make sure their IP ranges are not blocked, so that companies that take their responsibilities seriously aren't held back by criminals on other networks, just because they're in the same country.

And then maybe we can use that to shame some of the US DSL and cable companies to get serious about hijacked hosts on their own networks. :roll:

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103491)

Wow, you're such a typical U.S. citizen. I can't help myself from imagining you sitting in your cowboy hat somewhere in Louisiana or Texas, drinking Bud and typing:

"Heya Russkies. Get yer asses in gears, or we'll kick them daaaamn good".

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103717)

"I've already blocked all of Russia and China from accessing my servers because of too many problems from those countries."

So instead of everyone in Russia and China accessing your servers, you want just the Russian and Chinese hackers doing it?

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27104611)

How about giving you a deadline to fulfill all your obligations and promises, before you talk about dead-lining someone else?!

Re:Blackhole all of Russia (1)

JernejL (1092807) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104795)

USA, south american goverments, even western european.. they are all "not cooperating much" when a private website is struck by a DDoS, all you will get is an "automated photocopy response" that does nothing, if every ISP had a CERT team which HAD TO cooperate with abuse reports, DDoS would be likely a thing of the past.

Government "vs" criminals? (1, Redundant)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102639)

But I wonder whether authorities in those countries would be any more willing to pursue cyber crooks in their own countries if they were forced to confront just how deeply those groups have penetrated key government and private computer networks in those regions?'"

This assumes that "government" and "criminals" in Russia isn't the same thing. Which hasn't been true for, oh, ever since Yeltsin first came to power (and actually even a bit before then).

Who's to say those keyloggers aren't there with tacit acceptance and even encouragement of the guys higher up, as a useful surveillance tool that doesn't need any laws or warrants, and for which the government can only deny any responsibility?

Re:Government "vs" criminals? (1)

tetromino (807969) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102873)

Suppose you are right, and that some of these criminals are sharing the results of their keylogging with a crooked FSB officer.

What possible benefit would the FSB guy get from this information? What's he going to do with 10,000 passwords from random IP addresses from all over the country? Print them out, use them as a wall decoration?

What the FSB guy needs is the password for ONE specific account for ONE specific person - say, the email address of a prominent businessman or an opposition figure. Rather than going through a phisher and hoping that after N years, somewhere in the results the right password would turn up, it would make much more sense for the FSB guy to go through the usual channels (enter the premises and install a hardware keylogger, make the ISP log the suspect's packets, and so forth).

Re:Government "vs" criminals? (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103041)

What the FSB guy needs is the password for ONE specific account for ONE specific person - say, the email address of a prominent businessman or an opposition figure. Rather than going through a phisher and hoping that after N years, somewhere in the results the right password would turn up, it would make much more sense for the FSB guy to go through the usual channels (enter the premises and install a hardware keylogger, make the ISP log the suspect's packets, and so forth).

You missed my point. Of course the FSB guys don't need to log everything on everyone! But I'm sure it comforts them to know that when they need to log someone, chances are high, he has a keylogger and all that already - and they know where to go to get access to it.

Just tell me... (4, Interesting)

bitrex (859228) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102641)

But I wonder whether authorities in those countries would be any more willing to pursue cyber crooks in their own countries if they were forced to confront just how deeply those groups have penetrated key government and private computer networks in those regions?

I don't come to Slashdot for these kind of thought-provoking rhetorical questions about ethical and legal gray areas! Just tell me who the goodies and the baddies are! Go USA hacker-hunters, wooo!

Re:Just tell me... (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102901)

Just tell me who the goodies and the baddies are! Go USA hacker-hunters, wooo!

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the baddies are in the USA.

No wait, you're American? In that case, the baddies are in the rest of the world.

Re:Just tell me... (1)

magian (1417365) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103185)

Nice over-generalization...how about you keep your opinions in the dark where they belong....

Re:Just tell me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103541)

>Nice over-generalization
Are you serious?
I'm not even from the US and even I know that well over half of the US thinks this way.

Hell, i'd be surprised if half even know that there are places OUTSIDE the US.
They probably think the state next door is the enemy and Iraq is somewhere south of New York or whatever...

Re:Just tell me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103761)

Yeah....OK. You must oruginate from such an enlightened place that you can make statements like this. Ignorance is rampant everywhere, not just the U.S., my poor delusional friend. I am sure you know where to stick your bigotry.

CAPExposed (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102703)

US Authorities should be looking into their own backyard before they look into Russia.

Casinomeister [casinomeister.com] shows an email sent from (Warren Jolly) apparently operating an online casino *** within the USA *** , taking illegal online bets from Americans. Also, the report goes on suggest that the 2 partners, Lou Fabiano (Florida) and Warren Jolly (California), were banking in the USA via Washington Mutual (now Chase Bank) and even LISTS ACCOUNT NUMBERS. It is suggested as well that the payment processing took place via US companies as well.

The Association of Casinos, Players and Webmasters (APCW) ran several VIDEOS [youtube.com] in January exposing these two individuals via their paper trail and their activities.

At first it was denied, then it was actually boasted by the two co-conspirators, clearly believing that they can act without impunity.

That needs to be looked into by the authorities. Otherwise, everyone will start an online casino within the USA.

Had a similar experience myself (2, Funny)

TheModelEskimo (968202) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102705)

When I used to live in Russia, there was this incredibly gifted computer hacker who lived in the flat above me. He used to charge my mother and I about half a day's pay just to come back into the flat at night, because he was able to cyber-electronically control the entries to the building.
We would sit at work all day, not worried about the industrial chemicals we were breathing so much as this new, digital threat that went beyond our powers of imagination. Though we were strong physically, and even had local mafia connections of our own, this man with the thick eyeglasses, tight jeans, and a sort of mangy, even putrid smell about him, held our lives for ransom with nothing but a few keystrokes and some Zholz Cola.

Sorry, just kidding...I never lived in Russia. But the whole idea of this article seems a bit funny to me.

Some model Eskimo you are! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103077)

> Sorry, just kidding...I never lived in Russia. But the whole idea of this article seems a bit funny to me.

But you're an Eskimo, right? Can't you see Russia from up there?

When is the USA going to tackle cyber crime (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102777)

USA still the World's leading producer of spam, why do the USA government do so little about it. Are they being paid off or is there a more sinister motive for their compliance with the criminals ?

SHIT (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27102849)

yes, I work for

I said it before... (0, Flamebait)

GeekDork (194851) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102863)

Cut Russia and China off the internet for a week and see what it does.

Re:I said it before... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103055)

This is something I'd love to see. But a lot of these guys are probably operating outside of Russia/China, or would pretty quickly find a way around.

Re:I said it before... (1)

RCL (891376) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103069)

The Internet will fragment itself into pieces. See the history of IRC and how it all ended for the network.

Luckily, you actually cannot cut us (I'm Russian) off, nor you can do anything to prevent this large population (1,5 bln people: Russia and China combined) from using computers, joining networks and/or cracking the software. Just think how hard Chineese government tries to cut off its people from outside world and how badly it fails.

China calls in its credit? (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103945)

The US is in depth, the last thing it needs right now is to upset China who it owns money too, or Russia that could easily start up another arms race.

The US already has more then enough foreign wars to deal with as it is, it does NOT need cold war 2.0

Re:China calls in its credit? (1)

TrueRecord (1101681) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104709)

Without wars the USA could become a normal country. But I don't believe in miracles any more.

Re:China calls in its credit? (2, Funny)

maxume (22995) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104883)

If China tried to call in its credit, it would get lots of nice green paper, and a polite invitation not to do business in the U.S. anymore.

It would be tough for the U.S. to deal with (anything that China produces a lot of would suddenly get more expensive; good thing they don't provide all that much food, energy or basic material...), but it would be disastrous for China (the stability of the country depends on the government providing economic growth and opportunity).

Re:China calls in its credit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27105873)

USA isnt the only market that China sells to and just imagine how the prices in USA would sky rocket as middle men in other countries would buy chinese produce and resell it in USA.

no update for Windows, or "bad" people in the East (5, Informative)

Max_W (812974) | more than 5 years ago | (#27102889)

A lot of computers in Russia run cracked version of Windows. I do not know the exact figure, but I would think 99%. A CD with a cracked Windows, PhotoShop, AutoCad, etc. costs about USD 3.- at a street market. The same is for other countries of the FSU.

So what is installed from these CDs is anybody's guess. No need even to infect, a hidden program may come right from an installation CD. The groups that crack Windows sometimes even write their own copyright notice on CDs.

The disk with an authentic Windows is possible to buy only in large cities. Very few shops sell authentic Windows DVD, as they seem to be too expensive for majority of users. I could find out and buy there only a "gray" OEM Windows Vista Russian version for an equivalent of several hundred USD.

No need to say that these Windows installations do not update via Windows update. WTO makes Russian government to fight cracked software. So sometimes militiamen come to the places, where cracked software is sold and break DVDs and CDs. Then these markets just move into more obscure places.

So what have we got? Millions and millions of PCs, which run OS that cannot be patched or updated. So, guess what, these millions PCs neither patched, not updated.

Whose fault is this? When I try to use an alternative OS, like Linux, a lot of scanners, USB devices, video-cards, etc. just do not work, as drivers either non-existent or bad, made by rear-engineering. Because the hardware vendors provide drivers only for 1 and only OS.

Now we blame Russia for DDoS attacks. But what Russian government can do? Can it lower the price on the monopoly OS? Can it write drivers for peripheral devices so that people move away from the mono-OS culture?

It is easy to blame people in Eastern Europe for being of criminal persuasion, but for an average PC user in that parts there is absolutely no choice. Even if someone wants to buy the legal OS or software there are no shops which sell such, but the cracked soft is sold on every corner. Why is it so easy to crack by the way, if there is strong encryption around?

So someone imposed the worldwide OS monopoly of easily cracked software via convoluted drivers policies. The cracked versions of this software are easily infected as they do not update. Hundreds of millions of PCs run this s*** and the blame is on the Russian government and "bad" people of the East, of course.

Re:no update for Windows, or "bad" people in the E (2, Insightful)

Max_W (812974) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103065)

By the way, these DDoS attacks coming from the IPs in Russia and FSU could be originated from anywhere. Because the PCs in these parts, which run non-updateable non-patchable Windows, are easy prey for any malicious individual or group around the world.

What I mean is that this problem is of a commercial origin, non political. In the past even cracked versions of Windows could be updated via Windows update, but now there is the authenticity check. And if the OS is not authentic - highway.

Windows was made on purpose to be easily crackable and was updated in those years to make it spread around the world. Now they stopped updating the cracked OS installations, in hope that people like me, who need a PC for work, will search and buy the authentic Windows DVD. Bu it left a huge immense base of un-patched PCs.

This is the real origin of this problem.

Re:no update for Windows, or "bad" people in the E (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103127)

>>A CD with a cracked Windows, PhotoShop, AutoCad, etc. costs about USD 3 ...

You *paid* for a cracked Windows??? ;-)

Re:no update for Windows, or "bad" people in the E (1)

Max_W (812974) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103267)

What do you mean I paid for cracked Windows? The CDs with cracked Windows and other soft are being sold in millions of copies right now.

The computers, which run these non-updateable non-patchable cracked OSs, can be used by about any criminal group or any intelligence service, who manage to install an exe with a spy software. What is not that difficult snce there are vulnerabilities, which are, well, not patched. I think the PCs in the FSU is the "playground" for many international criminal groups and intelligence services.

It is sort of a half-official free version of an OS, when one wants to move to the "full" paid version, which is updated and secure, one buys the official DVD.

The problem is that there are hundreds of millions of PCs with theses cracked OSs, which practically destroy the Internet with DDoS, trojans, spam, etc. But is it not a good thing for a company which is being damaged by the Internet development, which rely on the Desktop?

Re:no update for Windows, or "bad" people in the E (2, Insightful)

somenickname (1270442) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103359)

Whose fault is this? When I try to use an alternative OS, like Linux, a lot of scanners, USB devices, video-cards, etc. just do not work, as drivers either non-existent or bad, made by rear-engineering. Because the hardware vendors provide drivers only for 1 and only OS.

Now we blame Russia for DDoS attacks. But what Russian government can do? Can it lower the price on the monopoly OS? Can it write drivers for peripheral devices so that people move away from the mono-OS culture?

If the government were actually interested in fixing this situation they could:

1) Create their own linux distro and mandate that the government use it. They have already said they want to do this and it was previously discussed on Slashdot.

2) Pass a law that says no new computer can be sold without a legitimate operating system on it (It doesn't matter if it's Windows, Russian Linux, OSX. It just must be a legal copy). More importantly, enforce the law. This should at least get most or all new computers pre-installed with the Russian OS just to comply with the law.

3) Refuse to let hardware vendors sell a product in Russia if it doesn't work out of the box or have a verified driver for Russian Linux on the installation CD. Linux generally has better hardware support than Windows these days so, this really isn't too onerous of a requirement on hardware vendors.

I'm probably over simplifying but, normal people don't care about their operating system. They want a button to click that connects to the magical "linksys" wifi network, an icon that says Internet under it and an icon that says Office under it. If you give them those three things, there is little chance they will notice the difference and probably less chance that will care enough to "fix" it with a Windows install. Though, they may start to get a little suspicious when they don't have to re-install every 3 months because, "it's going slow".

Re:no update for Windows, or "bad" people in the E (1)

major_fault (1384069) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103635)

Firstly as far as I know Microsoft does issue security patches even for cracked versions of Windows. Also most Eastern Europe countries have forced the laws about selling cracked versions of software quite strongly. The last time I remember seeing someone sell cracked software was more than 5 years ago. AFAIK Eastern Europe just downloads like the rest of countries do. Secondly, while it is true that the attacks were performed by individuals, the media in the supposed attacking country did encourage the attacks and it is hardly suprising to find who controls the media there. Thirdly at least in first attacks only the connection with other countries collapsed due to internet backbone being overflooded with packets from outside, not in the intranet. Most computers in Eastern European countries are not significantly less secure than in any other country - I am yet to see a metric about it though. Which doesn't that mean most are in good shape :)

Re:no update for Windows, or "bad" people in the E (1)

wumpus188 (657540) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103649)

It's not that hard to fool Genuine Windows validation and keep Windows patched (on XP, at least - all that required is patched version of LegitCheckControl.dll which is easy to find). My guess is that most of these pirated XP disks already have validation cracked and latest service packs installed.

The problem is inherent to Windows itself - legit or not, cracked ot original, some day your Windows PC is going to be 0wn3d.

Re:no update for Windows, or "bad" people in the E (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103661)

true. I bought Visual Studio in St-Petersburg smth like 3 years ago - I phoned dozen of places, and people just laughed at me or offered to order it from Moscow, to be delivered in weeks. Then finaly, I managed to find a company which said they had just one boxed copy to sell - and they were located in obscure and relatively remote place.

And this is the second largest city in Russia. People can't understand why one would spend 800 dollars on something which is available for 3 dollars round the corner.

Re:no update for Windows, or "bad" people in the E (5, Interesting)

Archon-X (264195) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103713)

I don't know anything about your background or travels, but I find the picture that you paint of russia contrasts strongly with that of what I've seen.

Bear in mind that Moscow has been the world's most expensive city to live in for multiple consecutive years now [ 1 [cnn.com] 2 [smh.com.au] ]

What you seem to be regurgitating in your post is rhetoric, which you've taken it upon yourself to extrapolate wildly.

There are multiple vectors for disassembling your post, but the most obvious ones are:

So what have we got? Millions and millions of PCs, which run OS that cannot be patched or updated. So, guess what, these millions PCs neither patched, not updated.

The last check of google reports over 194,000 hits for WGA cracks [3 [google.com.au] ].

I'd love to see the data behind your bold claim, in which you plead ignorance, but continue to fabricate 'statistics'.

A lot of computers in Russia run cracked version of Windows. I do not know the exact figure, but I would think 99%.

On a closing note, I'm amazed noone else has yet flamed you for posting:

When I try to use an alternative OS, like Linux, a lot of scanners, USB devices, video-cards, etc. just do not work, as drivers either non-existent or bad, made by rear-engineering. Because the hardware vendors provide drivers only for 1 and only OS.

Maybe you should do some research in general, and pay a visit to distrowatch...

Re:no update for Windows, or "bad" people in the E (1)

Max_W (812974) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104027)

I lived in Russia for 17 years, even more in Ukraine. Now I work in the West. I do not have exact figures, but I am convinced that the figure should be close to 100% of cracked Windows installations.

Most of these PCs are not updated due to the relatively recent Windows authenticity check. The most widespread browser is still IE6(!) in the RuNet.

Anybody, anybody, can install and run bots on these PCs. I do not exclude that these cyber attacks are carried out from Russian IPs by people who want to make bad image of this country. I saw PCs with several bots, viruses and trojans "happily" coexisting.

It is easy to say that Russian government is responsible, but the real picture is much more messy.

Re:no update for Windows, or "bad" people in the E (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27104013)

I'm running cracked XP*, and i'm getting updates without any problems. I didn't change or crack anything, i simpy downloaded the first XP torrent from mininova with highest seed count.

* my MB died and windows failed activation, support staff telling me that new motherboard == new computer and that i need buy new license, so i said fuck them

Re:no update for Windows, or "bad" people in the E (1)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104547)

No need to say that these Windows installations do not update via Windows update.

Automatic updates works on these machines, just not through the website.

huh (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103031)

I was originally going to observe that I couldn't see how you could possibly "shame" Russia into doing anything. But that observation holds for all governments. The concept of the title just won't work. Government cannot be shamed.

Shaming crime into action on Cyber Russia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103145)

In Soviet Russia

Y Gwroniaid Swpr Cymraeg (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103153)

Team Cymru.. are they Welsh super heroes? (of which, quite frankly, there aren't enough)

Typo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103317)

The story draws on data from Team Cyrmu about distributed denial-of-service attacks (DDoS) that target Russian and E. European organizations...

Team Cymru

Fixed that for you.

Its not just Russia or Eastern Europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103407)

Just love how everyone keeps trying to push this on Russia and Eastern Europe when its also in our own backyard.

  Even with the new laws and broadening of powers there really hasn't been much stop the same sort activities in North America either.

Follow The Money (1)

b4upoo (166390) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103459)

Some Russian hackers will not be touched as long as they are bringing foreign money home to Russia.
            Phone sales used to work like that in Florida. Crooked companies called all over America from Florida bases. It was a huge industry employing tens of thousands in the Miami, Ft. Lauderdale area. As long as cash was being brought into Florida law enforcement wouldn't touch these criminals. These companies had an absolute rule about never selling anything within the state of Florida so that only money from people in other states was stolen.
            In some smaller towns the old fashioned method was applied. The cops were simply paid not to bother phone sales companies.

myth? (1)

mapkinase (958129) | more than 5 years ago | (#27103609)

This is the first time I hear about this myth. Traditional ethnic organized crime: cosa nostra, vory v zakone, etc. targets mostly people of their own ethnicity. Why would cyber criminals be different unless they have some idealistic agenda? From my experience w/ criminals is that it is the most non-ideological group of people.

Re:myth? (1)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104231)

Traditional ethnic organized crime hits mostly people of their own ethnicity because their neighbors are conveniently close at hand. Online, though, it's just as easy to hit an EUian as a neighbor. Even if Russians are hit with the same probability as anyone in the world the result is a net positive cash flow into Russia.

Oh Noes we have a cybercrime gap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27103859)

Come on - all you basement dwellers, all you linux lovers, all you American Idol worshippers, Your Country Needs You to close that gap.

Re:Oh Noes we have a cybercrime gap (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104613)

In Capitalist west Russian bring Topol M* plans to you.
In Capitalist Russia Topol M protects you.
*recent intercontinental ballistic missile

Russia is in the "big four" bulletproof hosting (1)

v1 (525388) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104747)

From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] , Bulletproof hosting (sometimes known as 'bulk-friendly' hosting) is a service provided by domain hosts which allows their customer considerable leniency in the kinds of material they may upload. This leniency has been taken advantage of by spammers and providers of online gambling or pornography.[1]
Many service providers have Terms of Service that do not allow certain materials to be uploaded, or the service to be used in a particular way, and may suspend a hosting account, after a few complaints, to minimize the risk of their IP subnet being blocked by anti-spam filters using Internet Protocol (IP) based filtering. Additionally, some service providers may have ethical concerns that underpin their service terms and conditions.
Generally, a bulletproof host allows a content provider to bypass the laws regulating Internet content and service in its country of operation as many of these 'bulletproof hosts' are based 'overseas' (relative to the geographical location of the content provider).
Many if not most 'bulletproof hosts' are in South America, China, other parts of Asia, and Russia/Russia's surrounding countries, but this is not always the case.

Re:Russia is in the "big four" bulletproof hosting (1)

rel4x (783238) | more than 5 years ago | (#27105685)

That has been true in the past, but nowadays it's largely "fast flux" hosting. Essentially just botnets where the name servers/web host change every X interval, so nothing can get shut down. If you tried, by the time you got off hold with the ISP and talked to a real human the website would be hosted elsewhere.

ha ha (2, Insightful)

TrueRecord (1101681) | more than 5 years ago | (#27104961)

US authorities simply aren't getting the cooperation they need

"US authorities" are not authority and suck.

Did "US authorities" ever wonder what the rest of the world needs?

Fix your typo: Cymru, not Cyrmu (2, Insightful)

whitroth (9367) | more than 5 years ago | (#27105637)

Unless you feel like living in the Untied Snakes of Aremica

      mark

Re:Fix your typo: Cymru, not Cyrmu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27106621)

Or the iTuned Tastes of iCamera.

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