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UK Government Wants To Kill Net Neutrality In EU

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the for-your-own-good dept.

Government 287

Glyn Moody writes "Not content with snooping on all Internet activity, the UK government now wants to introduce changes to the contentious EU Telecoms Package, which will kill net neutrality in the EU: 'Amendments to the Telecoms Package circulated in Brussels by the UK government, seek to cross out users' rights to access and distribute Internet content and services. And they want to replace it with a "principle" that users can be told not only the conditions for access, but also the conditions for the use of applications and services. The amendments, if carried, would reverse the principle of end-to-end connectivity which has underpinned not only the Internet, but also European telecommunications policy, to date.' To add to the irony, an accompanying text cuts and pastes from Wikipedia, without attribution."

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That's what SHE said!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27129545)

Another YouTube SENSATION!!! [youtube.com]

Can someone wash my underwear? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27129571)

I made an obama in my pants!

thank you sir, may I have another (2, Insightful)

Em Emalb (452530) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129593)

man, corporations oops, I mean politicians are really pushing this BS aren't they?

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (4, Insightful)

digitalunity (19107) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129661)

Politicians are corrupt. There is value(read: profit) in artificial scarcity. By reducing the consumer's expectations you can get them to pay more for the same service. Profit is good for the economy(in theory).

Soon, you'll pick your ISP or your rate plan based on the sites you want to see. The content producers and ISP's will share the revenue from the increased revenue. Sadly, I really think a lot of consumers will pony up the cash.

Regardless of what the laws say, ISP's can choose to allow universal access. If this new business model fails, they may eventually give up.

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27129769)

"And if you order in the next 30 minutes, you can get 100 additional websites for only $19.99/mo more"

Sadly, this is the endgame they're envisioning

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27129885)

Politicians are corrupt. There is value(read: profit) in artificial scarcity. By reducing the consumer's expectations you can get them to pay more for the same service.

Funny, sounds like we're buying diamonds.

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (3, Funny)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130799)

Funny, sounds like we're buying diamonds.
In Australia every packet is gold plated and cost $150 per gig.

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (3, Insightful)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129951)

There is value(read: profit) in artificial scarcity. By reducing the consumer's expectations you can get them to pay more for the same service. Profit is good for the economy(in theory).

In bullshit theory, sure. In real economic theory, however, this setup is horribly inefficient, as it significantly reduces the consumer surplus. Of course, the government can't tax something quite so intangible as such a benefit to society...

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (4, Insightful)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130129)

Supply siders and businessmen like to ignore things like consumer surplus- it doesn't fit into their worldview (the worldview where they deserve everything).

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130169)

And America is moving that way, where government can control all aspects of life and we are allowing it.

Will we let it continue? Will America be the next to kill Net Neutrality?

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (1)

Ashriel (1457949) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130453)

The U.S. seems to be going the right way on this one for a change. There's a strong push for net neutrality legislation, and our current administration has made it a platform issue.

Granted we have media lobbyists and their pet politicians, but you can be reasonably sure that no anti-net neutrality legislature is going to pass in the next four years.

It's kind of a moot point over here in any case. This country is gearing up for total economic collapse (something I find both frightening and welcome at the same time), and I don't think anyone's going to care much about controlling the internet when the power's out and 90% of us are jobless.

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130335)

UK Government Wants To Kill Net Neutrality In EU

Hannibal King: "Fuck me. Fuck me sideways."

I've just about written off the UK. Hate to say it, but they're going down a dark road. Now, as an American, I can honestly say that my country's various governments are making every effort to go travel that same road.

I'm bitterly disappointed in both of them.

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (2, Insightful)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130473)

Shouldn't you go to the UK before writing it off, rather than doing so based on a "UK is a policestate" meme on slashdot?

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (0, Troll)

0123456 (636235) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130541)

Shouldn't you go to the UK before writing it off, rather than doing so based on a "UK is a policestate" meme on slashdot?

I used to live in the UK, and fled across the Atlantic a couple of years ago when I realised the country was rapidly being turned into a police state by a government of despicable scum who I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. The only hope Britain has is that the recession bankrupts the government and prevents them from completing their goal of turning it into a third-world banana republic.

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (2, Informative)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130883)

My parents and brother live in the UK and all that "police state" stuff was just in your head, mate.

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (2, Interesting)

0123456 (636235) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131011)

My parents and brother live in the UK and all that "police state" stuff was just in your head, mate.

I guess you'd have said the same to a Jew in Germany in 1932.

A few days ago I was reading a NASA astronaut's story about his visit to East Germany in the 80s before the Berlin Wall came down; I didn't understand why it seemed so familiar until I realised he was pretty much describing my last visit to the UK.

But yeah, total surveillance, ID cards, a DNA database and total control over Internet access are nothing to do with a police state; just go back to sleep and it will all be OK in the morning...

The funny part is that the way the country is going, Labour will get all these things in place just in time for the BNP to gain power and use those powers to turn the country into a real Nazi hell-hole.

'Your papers please...' Get used to it if you're dumb enough not to get out while you still can.

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (4, Insightful)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131105)

Umm, what? The police state in Germany happened after the Nazis had absolute power, i.e. after the Enabling Act. The slippery state argument, i.e. that introducing ID cards - which the government have been talking about for ages but never actually managed to implement - will somehow gradually lead to a totalitarian state is silly paranoia. Germany was rather libertarian before the Nazis took over, which of course is why they were able to take over. If anything the Weimar Rebublic should have been a bit more careful keeping track of wannabe totalitarians.

And the idea that the BNP is on a course to win an election is silly too. If they had seats in parliament and their share of the vote was increasing I'd be concerned. Actually they have no seats and even if they won one they would most likely not be able to win more. Do you really think if a Nazi like party gains power they won't just implement whatever leagal measures they feel necessary?

Maybe you've been smoking too much pot and it's made you paranoid. Best not do that 'across the Atlantic' though, I hear they have much more draconian punishments for drug users. I believe the phrase is "pound me in the ass prison".

Re:thank you sir, may I have another (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27131303)

Then my friend, they have already been brain washed. Sad really.

Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27129597)

Why on earth does this continue?

I can't take how stupid the world is being, with this and New Zealand's "Guilty until proven innocent" thing, as well as the way net neutrality is coming under attack in my own country, Canada. It makes me want to throw up.

Re:Why? (3, Insightful)

pete6677 (681676) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129641)

The subjects of the UK are perfectly willing to give away rights in the name of security. What's one more going to matter?

Re:Why? (4, Insightful)

Firehed (942385) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129865)

I'm not sure that's the case. Politicians in the UK are perfectly willing to throw away people's rights in the name of security, but that doesn't mean the population is OK with it. That's certainly the case in the US, though thankfully the trend seems to have slowed a bit when it took a back-seat to the constant economic bickering.

Re:Why? (0, Flamebait)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130201)

Bet you're a good old American... no such thing as the Patriot Act.

Gotta love how yank jerks love to poke fun at poms about privacy and lack of rights....

You know what they say, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Your constitution is not worth the paper it's written on.

Re:Why? (1)

maugle (1369813) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130393)

We may not doing too hot in the "we have rights" department either, but that doesn't mean we can't point out how bad things are elsewhere.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130847)

Even if their constitution is ignored (it isn't), at least they have one.

Our parliament, in their wisdom, could quite legally pass a law mandating that every man, woman and child in the country is to be shot. There is nothing to stop that, other than its sheer implausibility. The Americans are guaranteed, officially, by law, certain basic rights. We are guaranteed nothing. Absolutely nothing. Parliament has complete sovereignty.

It's pretty much bullshit. Now please, stop hating America because it's trendy and wake up to the insidious fucking ROT infesting your own country.

Re:Why? (3, Informative)

IWannaBeAnAC (653701) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131083)

In the UK there is a final arbiter; and that is the Queen, who must sign off on legislation before it becomes law. Nowdays it is mostly ceremonial, I don't think she has exercised the right to not sign legislation for a long time now (if ever, for the current monarch). But it does mean that there is an additional opportunity to stop any Enabling Act type legislation before it becomes law.

In principle, the constitution in the US is a strong document, but in the end it is people who have to uphold it. Primarily, the Justice Department is responsible for giving legal advice to the executive (and, I guess, to congress too?), and if they routinely give advice to the executive that is borderline or illegal, then there is not much recourse. The courts can usually intervene, but that is a slow process - and of course that depends on the courts finding out about the illegal activities in the first place.

Re:Why? (4, Interesting)

0123456 (636235) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130707)

The subjects of the UK are perfectly willing to give away rights in the name of security.

It's more complicated than that.

The British electoral system ensures that you only need a tiny fraction of the votes to control the country; Labour, for example, got about 22% of the votes in the last election, and they have a majority of seats in Parliament. Worse than that, they actually got less votes than the Tories in England, yet they control the country thanks to votes from Scotland and Wales.

The Tories are the only other party capable of being elected at this time, and they've merely become a wet version of Labour, without any sign of a leader with the balls of a Thatcher who could turn the country around as she did after the last Labour government.

The most likely third party to gain from lost Labour votes is the BNP, who are a bunch of raving national socialists (using that in the literal sense: far-left nationalists).

So there's precisely zero chance of improving anything through political means, and everyone of clue has been getting the hell out, with emigration reaching levels not seen since... uh, the last time the country had a Labour government.

When you combine the inability to make any real change without stringing up politicians from lamp-posts on Westminster Bridge with the exodus of millions of people of clue since WWII, you should hardly be surprised by what a disaster zone Britain has become; the people left behind are the ones least likely to get off their ass and do anything.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27131425)

The subjects of the UK are perfectly willing to give away rights in the name of security. What's one more going to matter?

In the name of security is exactly right. They don't gain any real security by doing so.

It's not a trade of liberty for security. It's trading liberty for more government control, which is very different than security.

Another brick (5, Insightful)

Renraku (518261) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129631)

Just another brick in their wall they're building to further close them off from the rest of reality.

I've had this thought for a while now, but now's an appropriate time to say it: Will there be a day when a British tourist visits America and remarks that our cameras must be hidden really well, because they can't see them at all!

Re:Another brick (1)

Alphanos (596595) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129915)

No; they won't be that well hidden.

Re:Another brick (1)

BumpyCarrot (775949) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129967)

Honestly? I just don't have anything to hide. And if I did, I'd hide from the cameras. It's not as though it's a problem out in the 'burbs. Sure, city centres, particularly The City That Is London And Yea, Shall Always Be Referred To As "The City" Because It's So "Important", you ought to sign a waiver before you enter, but the crime is also so much higher there. But my internetz? Data wants to be free / You can't stop The Signal / Hack the Planet / Insert coin for another catchphrase.

Re:Another brick (5, Insightful)

hannson (1369413) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130091)

I just don't have anything to hide

Wrong!
 
  Everyone has something to hide from someone.

Re:Another brick (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130875)

Everyone has something to hide from someone.

Except for me and my monkey

Re:Another brick (2, Funny)

Patrik_AKA_RedX (624423) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131489)

Everyone has something to hide from someone.

Except boring people with blogs.

Re:Another brick (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130283)

Wow, people see you in crowed areas. Oh my god, humans (including some in the government), seeing you in public places. Your privacy has been violated, go hide and whine on Slashdot.

In the real world what we do affects other people more than it does on the internet; therefore behaviour in the real world must be regulated more than on the internet. You can't kill someone, or rape someone over your internet connection, but you can kill or rape someone in the real world, so the double standard is entirely justified. We should have complete privacy on the net, but not in the real world, because we must be held accountable for our actions in the real world, while holding people accountable for their actions on the net doesn't really matter. If it's on the internet and you don't like it, don't look.

Anyone remember Casey Kelp the Snork??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130111)

Mmmmm, I'd love to get me some of that hot, wet, tight snorkel...

Re:Another brick (1)

Maelwryth (982896) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130325)

More likely they will have to combat a new phobia. Fear of not being watched. This will be characterised by an inability to sustain normal social relationships without the presence of a psychological moral superior leading to spontaneous religious conversions upon crossing the ditch in order to retain sanity.

Is this already a phobia?

Re:Another brick (1)

ImNotAtWork (1375933) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130915)

This reminds me of an episode I witnessed in a University Library. Where a students laptop was stolen.

The student was dismayed when he found out that the Library did not have 100% camera coverage for loss prevention.

Left wing credentials (3, Insightful)

MrMickS (568778) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129639)

This is the labour party exercising its left wing credentials. It wants total control of the populous. They don't like the internet as it is as it allows people to bypass the laws they set up to police it. They don't want to stop it being used, but they want to control what people use if for, and to have something in place that is sufficiently vague that they can use for any purpose.

The worst thing is that the general population is that ignorant to what the government is doing that as long as this is spun as a measure to counter terrorism, or catching paedophiles, there will be no objection. After all, how could any sane person object to such a thing.

We currently have a government that is ruled by conceit. They know what is best for people and if we ignore what they tell us to do then its because we haven't understood rather than us having understood and rejected the advice. Their next resort is to legislate to force us to do what they want us to do, for our own good of course. HMG has forgotten that they are there to serve the people, rather than the other way around.

Re:Left wing credentials (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27129683)

This is the labour party exercising its right wing credentials.

Fixed that for you.

Re:Left wing credentials (5, Insightful)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130061)

This is the labour party exercising its turd [wikipedia.org] wing credentials.

What exactly is this left-and-right BS you people keep saying? All I see is a bunch of politicians disconnected from the real world, and from the people who vote on them. Does it really matter what "side" they're on if they act stupid?

Re:Left wing credentials (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130787)

Read up on the political spectrum

WHOOOSH (1)

zooblethorpe (686757) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131007)

is all I needed to say.

And yet (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27129703)

Where did they learn it from? The neo-cons in America.

Re:And yet (5, Insightful)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129773)

Nah. Governments have a tendency of giving themselves more power, whether they're left or right.

Partisan politics are the method by which the government gets us to argue amongst each other long enough so we won't notice that they're all colluding to strip us of our rights.

Vote for a more limited government, no matter what country you happen to live in.

Mod parent up. (1)

Firehed (942385) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129975)

Mod parent up. I'd do it myself but I've already posted.

Re:And yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130207)

Absolutely.

Power corrupts.
Absolute power is kind of fun.

Re:Left wing credentials (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27129731)

HMG has forgotten that they are there to serve the people, rather than the other way around.

Not forgotten, just never even considered true by any government.

Re:Left wing credentials (2, Interesting)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129755)

This is the labour party exercising its left wing credentials. It wants total control of the populous.

http://www.talkswindon.org/politics/speedcameras/Brown%20is%20stalin.jpg [talkswindon.org]

I apologize for the squished aspect ratio on the photo.

I first saw that photo on Top Gear, when Clarkson was comparing Brown and Stalin: that he is restricting movement by raising fuel tax, and that ID cards and curfews are to follow.

I'm an American, and the British government has made me not want to live in the U.K., which I would otherwise like to do someday.

Re:Left wing credentials (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27129861)

I'm an American, and the British government has made me not want to live in the U.K., which I would otherwise like to do someday.

I'm British and I agree with everything you've said, but swap the words British with American and American with British and I have the same problem. It's hard to choose which is the lesser of two "evils", but there are also many worse choices.

Re:Left wing credentials (3, Insightful)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130023)

As a former resident of New Hampshire, I highly recommend it as a place to live if you're sick of over-reaching government. The west side of the state is left-leaning, the east side of the state is right-leaning, but the whole state has a very libertarian attitude.

I'm in California now (I took a job out here) and I can't stand it because of how willing the residents of this state are to let government of all levels control their lives. It's given me a very intense appreciation of what I had.

People (especially Europeans) forget how large and diverse the U.S. is. California and New Hampshire have twice as much distance between them than London and Moscow, and the two states have even less in common with each other than France and Belgium, two other "states" that also share most of a language.

for the most part (1)

Trepidity (597) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130199)

They do retain more of that old New-England-puritan hangup about alcohol, on which California's a bit more liberal. You can only buy liquor at state-run liquor stores in NH, and even licenses for on-premises consumption of beer and wine have more regulations---in California it's not uncommon to find coffee shops selling alcohol in the evenings, because the license is easy to get and cheap; good luck finding that in NH.

Re:Left wing credentials (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130227)

People (especially Europeans) forget how large and diverse the U.S. is.

Said diversity is your own success yet your own demise. The world sees America as America, not as 50 separate countries.

Re:Left wing credentials (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130415)

Fair point but consider in the UK you can go one town away and they speak a different language! What's worse is everyone claims to speak english, well except for the Irish, Scots and Welsh.

Re:Left wing credentials (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130465)

Fuck a dichotomy, Ireland is pretty cool :).

Re:Left wing credentials (4, Insightful)

arevos (659374) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129833)

This is the labour party exercising its left wing credentials. It wants total control of the populous.

And right-wing politicians don't?

Re:Left wing credentials (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130603)

OP isn't aware that authoritarianism is a right-wing trait.

http://politicalcompass.org/analysis2 for more.

Re:Left wing credentials (5, Informative)

hyades1 (1149581) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129959)

This has nothing to do with left wing or right wing, and allegations that it does are simply foolish. The English Conservative Party has a well-documented history of fascist tendencies going back at least as far as WWII. There were even quite a few Tories who thought Hitler had the right idea, and said so publicly. Sir Oswald Mosley illustrates the point well. First he was a Tory, then a Labour cabinet minister, then he abandoned both parties to found the British Union of Fascists.

You might also be unaware that in its current incarnation the Labour Party is to the right of what has traditionally been the British centre.

In any case, this situation is just another indication of a coercive government doing what it does best: get people under its thumb and squeeze out any hint of thought and activity it doesn't either monitor or control. Just try to find real differences in the position of the Tories and Labour on any issue of substance. Currently, "Right" and "Left" are simply labels of convenience to soothe the party faithful.

Re:Left wing credentials (4, Informative)

sapphire wyvern (1153271) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130135)

It wants total control of the populous.

Sorry for the pedantry, but I've been seeing this particular malapropism a lot lately. "Populous" is an adjective, meaning "densely inhabited". The noun you're looking for is "populace", meaning a population of people. Yes, they're pronounced exactly the same, so it's a very common substitution.

Re:Left wing credentials (1)

WildStreet (1362769) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130737)

POWER.... I have seen it turn many people into mini tyrants. I've always held that until you know and have real high level power, you can't be aware of how totally addictive it can be. Sure, money is a driving force, but Power and the control that it gives a person can be so destructive. You have to do something to justify the job you were elected to do, and as far as I can tell, here in the States, government has never really fixed anything, so lets pass a law or two to get things rolling. But then it keeps rolling and rolling and rolling. Anyway, I'm getting off topic, but power can twist a lot of good intentions into "Do as I say".

Re:Left wing credentials (0, Offtopic)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130929)

They know what is best for people and if we ignore what they tell us to do then its because we haven't understood rather than us having understood and rejected the advice

Liberals: They know what is best for you AND your money (or so they always claim) so if you like someone else to be in control of every meaningful detail of your life then just keep voting Labour because after all, they really do know what is best for you just like mum always did...right.

Fortunately, they are'nt as far along here in the United States as they are in Britain, but with Obama on board now we are pressing full steam ahead into a socialist trainwreck; boldy going down the path toward economic stagnation that has always gone hand and glove with the notion of, "spreading the wealth around". It didn't work for Russia, it didn't work for Cuba, it is'nt working for Bolivia or Venezuela or any other latin American country that has tried it and it won't work for us. Unfortunately, the young people of America seem determined to learn this lesson for themselves first hand and the hard way and by the time they realize that it isn't working we will have wasted another decade as a socialist backwater. If mega-beauracracy and socialism were the answers to the problems of the world then all of them would have been solved in the first half of the last century.

Perhaps their will be enough of us Libertarians and Ron Paul Revolutionaries to keep the torch of economic freedom from sputtering out completely in the midst of resurgent socialism, but I will take little comfort from being able to tell my Liberal friends, "See, I told you so" ten years from now when we are all poorer, less competitive, and worn out from our collective experiment in "21st century" socialism. Hint to the socialists: it didn't fail last century because socialists were not meticulous or scientific enough about organizing their governments. What makes you think it will be any different this time around?

Re:Left wing credentials (1)

Ninnle Labs, LLC (1486095) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130993)

Yeah cause it was a bunch of liberals in the US who started all the bank bailouts and everything. Wait... since when was Dubya, Bernanke and Paulson liberals?

Re:Left wing credentials (1)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131095)

Libertarian [wikipedia.org] NOT EQUAL TO Republican [wikipedia.org]

Just because I disagree with the Liberals, as the position has come to be understood in the American and British political discourse NOT Classical Liberalism as it was and is understood in Europe, does not mean that I automatically agree with the Republicans. If you an American and you still believe in smaller government, lower taxes, and more freedom then why not join us [lp.org] and do something [campaignforliberty.com] about it?

Re:Left wing credentials (0, Flamebait)

drsquare (530038) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131349)

I didn't think they still made Ron Paul Internet Nutjobs.

BSD Remains in Vegetative State (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27129781)

Mar. 8 -- BSD resumed receiving life-sustaining care yesterday in a Florida hospital room, but many experts said there is virtually no hope that it will ever recover, despite its fan boy's desperate hopes.

"IF IT'S over a year, BSD's not ever going to get up," said Fred Plum, a professor emeritus at Weill Cornell College in New York. "You'd just don't see it. It just doesn't happen."

BSD, 19, has been in a persistent vegetative state since its heart stopped for unknown reasons in 1990. A feeding tube in BSD's stomach was removed this past Wednesday after its husband, Theo De Ratt, who said his wife had told him that BSD would not want to be kept alive under such circumstances, won a long series of court battles to have life-sustaining nourishment withdrawn so BSD could die.

Access Denied (4, Funny)

BountyX (1227176) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129785)

Sorry, you do not have the rights to access and distribute this slashdot comment.

This affects us all (5, Insightful)

nightfire-unique (253895) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129873)

Those against net neutrality represent the gravest threat the Internet has faced. The Internet routes around damage, yes. But if concerted, simultaneous attacks occur by various governments around the world, Internet freedom can be defeated.

Not to sound overly melodramatic, but our children's children will judge us based on how we react to these assaults, today. If we successfully defend the Internet from those who wish to corrupt it for political, religious or profit reasons, we will have provided the greatest gift humanity has ever received - a free, open, and entrenched global communication network. A step in the evolution of our species.

If we fail in our duty, and the Internet is globally subverted, becoming yet another one-way broadcasting network for advertisers and propagandists, we will have left our descendants to another hundred years of suffering and misery.

Consider some of the things the Internet threatens:

- War: The Internet connects people in warzones with people outside the warzone. This makes it difficult to perpetrate a war without upsetting the aggressor's citizenry, as they will be exposed to the consequences of the war. Youtube, blogging from Baghdad, and english.aljazeera.net are just the start.
- Police brutality: Videos can circle the globe within minutes. The watchers are now watched, and this has a powerful effect on their behavior.
- Propaganda: .. is far less effective when the citizenry can check the facts
- Financial scandals: Anonymous communications help whistleblowers uncover financial scandals-in-progress

Now consider some of the things the Internet enables

- Global scientific collaboration: For both amateur and university-scale scientists, the Internet permits the free exchange of ideas
- The liberation of "intellectual property": (not so good for the profit-seekers, but ultimately necessary for humanity)
- Force multiplication for sellers: individuals can sell their products with the same efficiency and legitimacy as a large corporation, enabling more competition and a true free market (ie. ebay)

All of this has a negative effect on entrenched players, explaining our current situation. And this is the reason we need to fight, and fight hard. Because if we don't, we, and our descendants, will lose.

Re:This affects us all (4, Insightful)

fractoid (1076465) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130193)

Excellent post. It's more than a little scary to think about how much the Internet has improved humanitarian matters through exposing abuses. It shrinks the globe far more than the airlines did - Iraq is generally way, way outside Joe Citizen's monkeysphere, but that guy in his WoW raid is definitely inside it, and when that guy says "sorry, I have to go, someone's bombing my block"... that has an impact.

Government propaganda likewise, I'm increasingly disgusted by the pile of steaming ad hominem and blatant misrepresentation in politics these days. I'm also disgusted by the fact that most of the populus just gulp it down through their TV straw and don't even check to see how it tastes, but that's another story...

That said, I don't think the 'net as a whole is under any long-term threat, simply because due to scalability requirements it will eventually turn into a wireless mesh system. As networks grow very large, they _must_ become increasingly decentralized and therefore increasingly resilient to attacks of the kind that net neutrality seeks to prevent.

Re:This affects us all (3, Insightful)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130381)

due to scalability requirements it will eventually turn into a wireless mesh system.

I would guess that'll happen because of the threat of censorship, and the relative cheapness, more than anything else. Fiber is pretty scalable.

As networks grow very large, they _must_ become increasingly decentralized and therefore increasingly resilient to attacks of the kind that net neutrality seeks to prevent.

Keep in mind, the Internet currently is very centralized in other ways as well.

For example: How do we find anything on the Internet? Google. How does eBay allow individuals to become sellers? By routing them through the corporate hub of, well, eBay. Who decides how to allocate DNS and IP? The IANA.

And yet, when you completely decentralize it, you open yourself up to spam. That is, if everything is defined by a consensus of peers, all someone has to do is control a large number of those peers, either by infecting real peers, or by fabricating them.

I don't have a good solution, and I have no idea what a good solution would look like, unless it went entirely peer-to-peer. But then we'd have to set about building a web of trust that spans the planet, and any one entity might still not have a good path to trust another entity.

Re:This affects us all (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27131261)

I'm also disgusted by the fact that most of the populus just gulp it down through their TV straw

I like this. 8/10.

Re:This affects us all (1)

LoRdTAW (99712) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131041)

Okay wait, where do I go with my guy fox mask and looooooooooooong cat banner again?

Pirate Radio one more time around? (3, Interesting)

presidenteloco (659168) | more than 5 years ago | (#27129875)

From the 1960s, draconian British radio broadcasting restrictions forced would-be music broadcasters to park ships in the North Sea and transmit "pirate radio" stations to the UK.

Perhaps its time for pirate radio 2.0 : unlicensed digital packet radio mesh edition.

Re:Pirate Radio one more time around? (3, Funny)

fractoid (1076465) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130205)

I always wondered where the 'pirate' connection with copyright infringement came from. The image of a bunch of geeks with eye patches and cutlasses sailing up and down English coast shouting YARRRR and broadcasting popular music pleases me inordinately.

I am tired of UK being a EU member (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27129897)

I am a proud EU citizen I am tired of the UK being an EU member. UK (both government and population) behaves like stubborn child, like the black sheep. It does not want to adopt Euro, fully implement Schengen Treaty, European Charter of Human Rights, etc.; UK doesnâ(TM)t respect the symbols of the Union (e.g. the flag). Yet they want to rip all the benefits of the common market. Eastern EU workers were good when their citizens did not want to fill in raw work positions. Same Eastern-EU workers are scapegoats now, while their own British born citizens from the former Empire population blow themselves up. And now they want to infect the rest of the Union with their Stalinist type of police state. Frankly, I want UK out of the EU, let them be spied on their island only, have all the raw jobs they hired cheap hard working foreigners they despite, ask them to have a visa to visit EU, be finger-printed, etc. Let's have them alone on their pathetic island, also known for many reason as "The Perfidious Albion". Many of their politicians still behave like 100 years ago when they were a global empire, now the empire is gone and they just pay the price of arrogance. We need the Union to evolve without the hand-brake on. Brits, keep your politicians, CCTV cameras, and KGB-style police at home! Let the European Union alone!

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27129979)

I forgot to add: they also drive on the wrong side of the road all the time!

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (0)

ppanon (16583) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131367)

When the Brit and French subs crashed into each other recently, I said each was probably accusing the other of diving on the wrong side of the sea lane (although I would expect the right-side diver to be in the right on that one).

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (5, Interesting)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130229)

De Gaulle, and gaullists in general, was very much against the UK joining the EU. His major objection was its overseas empire and is connection to it. A connection that would preclude any stronger connection with the continent.

These days, I think it must be said that De Gaulle was certainly correct, except that he mistook the connection. The UK is not so much linked to its former empire, as it is inextricably linked to its former colony [metro.co.uk] , and now arguably its master, the United States. There is also the concept of the Anglosphere in general.

The Anglosphere is a very real cultural and economic force, if not a political one. This is what De Gaulle saw, and is why he did not want the UK forcing that worldview onto the EU. With English now being used as the dominant language in the EU, and with the UK promoting measures such as this, and all but standing in for the US in the commission, I think his objections were valid.

The UK should not have been let in.

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (4, Interesting)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130769)

The Europeans have nobody to blame but themselves for the kind of people that the British are. Stronger connection with the continent? Heh, yeah, what like when the Romans invaded? The Danes? The Viking raids and invasion attempts? The Normans? The Spanish would have if they could have, same with the French both under their monarchy and Napoleon, and lastly the Germans under Hitler (we'll let the cold war Russian threat slide). I think I'd be a little schizophrenic about 'the continent' with that much 'history'.

It's funny that the EUropeans hold Britain's former colonies against her. All the major states of Europe had colonies, the only difference was that they all came to nothing. Mexico doesn't have a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, Algeria sure as hell didn't save Europe from the Germans (twice), Indonesia never managed to put men on the moon, etc. etc. Many of the British colonies were the only European colonies to achieve a 'European' level of rule of law and quality of life, and I think that makes the other European powers jealous. I think it bothers the French that no matter how many words they make up for new technology, it's still only English that's accepted as the universal language of air-traffic control (because English-speakers invented powered flight). I think it bothers the great Universities of Europe that no matter how good they are, they'll never carry the gravitas of Oxford and the Rhodes Scholarship simply because that's what Britain impressed on all her colonies and sphere of influence as the excelsior achievement. Anyway, the point is well enough made.

The transfer of global primacy from the British in the 19th century to the Americans in the 20th represents a very unique event in known history. Never has the center of the primary political and military power on earth shifted such a vast geographic distance without a similarly vast shift in language or culture. As a grand coincidence, those two English-speaking centuries oversaw the production, dissemination, and regulation (or lack thereof) of virtually every new technology that has changed human civilization, including the internet. This made the 'Anglosphere' into the primary progenitor of the coming modern monoculture. Any scion of the other major cultural powers who understands these things would be justifiably miffed, and I believe they are.

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130927)

Your argument has many flaws. USA becomes a great nation by becoming independent from the British influence. Without the revolution, we would have become another docile Canada (sorry, no pun intended to our good neighbor from the North) because of the spirit of its citizens and the genius of its founding fathers!

We had to fight against British arrogance in our American Revolution to become free. While most of the original 13 colonies were British ones, many other territories and states had a much diverse European population (including French descendants, Spanish decedents, Irish, German, etc.). US are a unique melting pot cultures, not just the English one. We march with the Scottish pipes, because persecuted Scottish found a home away from the oppression of the English. Same for Irish. German population was a big share of the initial US. British have no merit regarding where US is now.

The merit is of the American people who found a free land (with natives, all right), undeveloped (from the European perspective), with a climate similar in many regards to European one. US are Europe 2.0! British readers, please, don't assume merits you don't have in what America has become!

Your Empire has vanished, you are just an island nation now, that's all, living from the memories of the past, when pound was what USD is today, and when London was what is Washington, today. And with your copy-cat economy, Frankfurt am Main in Deutschland will soon become the financial capital of the EU.

You see, Germans got it right, by involving in the EU as a key engine part, they achieve peacefully now goals that they fought - and lost in the past. Deutschland and France look into the future, British are so much anchored in the past. What is your role and influence in today's world? Diminishing every day... IMHO

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27131339)

The Revolutionary War was about sovereignty, not society or culture. Aside from giving up tea for coffee and banning titles, American society was solidly derived from English society, most importantly common law.

While the French, Spanish, and Dutch had some significant holdings, they were not as well populated as the British holdings, nor as solidly held. The lands in the south such as Florida and Louisiana bounced between Spanish, French, British and American control like pinballs, and the Dutch didn't hold onto New Amsterdam long enough for even the name to stick. The Germans came largely rather late to the party, a fair number of Hessians didn't want to go back after their mercenary role in the war was over. Otherwise the bulk of Germans (and Irish and Scotts-Irish and Scandinavians and other Europeans) came in the centuries following the war. However, by the time of that influx, the socio-cultural foundation had already set, and the waves of Europeans coming in were largely absorbed into it.

So to say that the 'British have no merit regarding where US is now' ('merit' is a strange word to use in this context) is disingenuous at a minimum. There's a reason why we (I'm 3rd generation American of Norse/German extraction) speak English and use a legal system based on British common law, and it is purely that the British cultural influence was the most dominant of those in play at the time of the Revolution and the solidification of the US during the transition from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution.

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (1)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131453)

I posted this, I don't know how my Anonymous box got checked...

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (3, Interesting)

Petrushka (815171) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131035)

You've got some interesting points, but I suspect that if de Gaulle were around today he'd be thoroughly in favour of keeping the UK in the EU. It really specifically was the Commonwealth that he was concerned about, and the UK has wholeheartedly and thoroughly done its best to bring the Commonwealth to an end.

Today the major powers in the EU -- France and Germany, and to a lesser extent Benelux -- very much want to keep the UK in the EU, and I suspect that's precisely because of the UK's trans-Atlantic links. The UK may have always been ambivalent about the EU -- it so happens that the yea-sayers have been winning so far -- but since the Commonwealth became moribund, the EU has been working remarkably hard to appease the UK and keep them in. Perhaps the UK's importance in the field of banking is another reason to keep the UK. If not for those two things, I would imagine that France in particular would have given up on UK-appeasing long ago.

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130263)

As a brit, I want the UK out of the EU too, but for a thousand different reasons.

Also, as a brit, I want to emigrate out of here!

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130505)

Then why you don't simply organize a referendum to get out? You British accuse EU bodies of being "undemocratic", when they are not. They are only too bureaucratic, but this is a business process issue, not a political one. It is your "democratic" government which does not gives you a referendum, isn't it?

The EU Parliament is directly elected like any other Parliament (I will vote this June 2009!). The EU Commission is approved by the EU Parliament, like any other European government. The Council of the EU, as well as the European Council is composed of the representatives from the democratically elected governments of the member states. That being said, EU bodies are democratic enough for me.

However, what kind of democracy is the one on Westminster, that keeps UK in the Union against (supposedly) the will of the British people? And why the British people don't give the UK Independence Party the majority of votes in the UK Parliament? I am sure that UKIP will give you the out-referendum the majority of the British people want. Or perhaps there is just a very vocal minority? I don't know, I am just asking.

Anyway, from what I see, the British democracy is a failed one, not the EU's. And per the TFA, now you want to infect the rest of the democracies in the Union with your Stalinist shame? Please, to quote your American masters, "give us a break!".

P.S. I also spend a lot of time in States. Here nobody on the street gives a damn about the "strong US ally which is GB". Americans think in terms of "us and the rest of the world", UK is only a docile servant of American agenda, out of many others at hand.

American companies with businesses in Europe headquartered in UK actually suffers from the double foreign exchange risk: US corporations have consolidated budgets in USD, European HQ budgets in UK budgets are done in the pathetic dwarf pound, then revenues and expenses are in EURO. Many are skipping the pound and relocate in the English-speaking, and EU friendly Ireland for that matter. No wonder manufacturing sector in UK is now only 11%, while the service sector (finance) took the hit from imitating the Americans blindly in their sub-prime stupidity.

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130385)

I'm all for the UK leaving the EU, since so much of the crap we put up with gets "justified" on the basis that the EU has decided we should have it, when it would be too politially expensive for even the current arrogant administration to push through at home. About the only really worthwhile thing we have had out of the EU in legislative terms is the ECHR via the Human Rights Act, and even that has frequently been a screw-up in practice even if the intent behind it might have been good.

Oh, and I'd like back the huge amount of my hard-earned cash that the government takes from me and gives to the EU to subsidise it as well, please.

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (2, Insightful)

kegon (766647) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130567)

UK (both government and population) behaves like stubborn child, like the black sheep. It does not want to adopt Euro, fully implement Schengen Treaty, European Charter of Human Rights, etc. [.....] Yet they want to rip all the benefits of the common market.

Show me an EU member country that is doing any different. They all act for their own benefits, none of them are selfless. All countries have negotiated these treaties and agreements, are you saying other countries were unfairly forced to sign and the UK somehow cheated ?

Many of their politicians still behave like 100 years ago when they were a global empire, now the empire is gone and they just pay the price of arrogance

Examples ? Links ? Facts ?

How does this flame bait get modded "Interesting" ?

Re:I am tired of UK being a EU member (1, Insightful)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130733)

It's "interesting" because it reflects a widely held view of Britain and the British people throughout the European continent. It's not "flamebait" for the same reason.

If you wish to defend the British historical record as being positive for the EU, then you're welcome to do so. Perhaps your interpretation will end up deserving an "Interesting" mod, too.

UK should leave EU and join USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27130211)

UK government has done nothing but blindly follow and copy the worst of USA for the past 10 years, thereby turning itself into a 1984 puritanist state. It's time that they acknowledge tat they are not a part of EU, never will be, and act on it. UK should gtfo from EU and join USA or AU instead.

If a law violates GPLD (3, Interesting)

Hordeking (1237940) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130365)

To add to the irony, an accompanying text cuts and pastes from Wikipedia, without attribution.

So, who does Gpl-violation file suit against? In fact, if a law quotes you unattributed, doesn't that mean the government is somehow liable for copyright infringement?

Brit perspective (1)

freeasinrealale (928218) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130375)

As a former Brit, now Canadian, I have developed some theories as to the wheres and whys of the British psyche. Being an Island has led to an isolation not found elsewhere in Europe. Historically this allowed the 'subjection' of the 'unwashed' masses by the entitled elites to evolve apace without too much interference from abroad. As luck would have it, even world domination as the British Empire. All sorts of nastiness was developed by us Brits - piracy, slavery, banking, to name a few. However us members of the untouchable class in England gradually picked up a thing or two over several thousands of years of killing, war and banking (as employees) and now have these royal PITA types under some form of control. Keep them in castles and luxury, let them run banks and insurance. We even have the Royals. One of the good things we untouchables started was the end to slavery (real - not todays corporate slavery). However one of the supposed 'great' things we exported was Democracy, as in the 'free' world, esp. the good ole US of A, which is a kind of democracy gone wild. My Canada is sort of a 'sleepy' democracy, less volatile. Note the similarity in Brit/American banking system problems today - a little out of hand. Canadian banks are boringly regulated and quite stable, thank you. This theory may be a lot of bunk, but it suits me just fine. Understanding the Zen of the entitled elites, one sees that they are again restless over in old Blighty, what with the banking/political crisis. It appears that Net neutrality may be tipping the balance of socio/economic power to the restless masses. Oh well. Now that we have them by the yoibles, its time for every free man woman and child to grab a hold and squeeze.

Re:Brit perspective (1)

LeafOnTheWind (1066228) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130717)

However one of the supposed 'great' things we exported was Democracy, as in the 'free' world, esp. the good ole US of A, which is a kind of democracy gone wild.

That's a little revisionist, isn't it? I seem to remember the United States having to fight a certain war of independence in order to establish said "free world." It is widely accepted that the United States is the oldest modern democracy still in existence, not the UK.

Re:Brit perspective (1)

freeasinrealale (928218) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131027)

I stand corrected. My history had Brit roots of democracy seeded in 1066. Perhaps some of these 'ideals' prompted the founding fathers - my guess. No doubt the USA is the bastion of freedom and democracy now.

YAD (1)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130525)

Yet another definition of Net Neutrality.

What kind of agenda is that? (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130561)

I really still don't get it, why are the ones who are supposed to be liberals doing such things? I could understand if a douchebag like Cameron wanted to turn the UK into what the Labour party is turning it into, but why does the Labour party do that? Since when is that sort of agenda anything like the liberal agenda? Socialists in France aren't pushing for anything even vaguely similar, neither are the Social Democrats in Germany or the centre-left coalition of Italy, or anywhere else I know of where the main liberal movements stick to a liberal agenda, which, while controversial, is certainly nothing oppressive.

So where on Earth did these guys get their agenda from? Why the fuck are they pushing for stuff like that? What's wrong with these people? That's not how being a liberal is supposed to be. Someone please explain, and please don't bother with the libertarian drivel about big evil governments who want to enslave mankind, I want a good explanation, not some bullshit feel-good "you see, we were right, they're all evil except us" crap.

Re:What kind of agenda is that? (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130609)

I really still don't get it, why are the ones who are supposed to be liberals doing such things?

Because, uh, liberals want to tell everyone what to do and prevent them from offending anyone with 'bad speech' or seeing bad things?

Conservatives, of course, want to do the same, only with slightly different definitions of 'bad'.

Re:What kind of agenda is that? (1)

sneilan (1416093) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130683)

Yes, but, where did they get those ideas from?

Re:What kind of agenda is that? (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 5 years ago | (#27130949)

So why don't other liberals in other countries do the same? Why are "liberals" in the UK this isolated in that regard?

Re:What kind of agenda is that? (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131031)

So why don't other liberals in other countries do the same?

In what Western country are liberals _not_ trying to tell everyone else what to do at gunpoint?

'Political correctness' (aka wet Marxism) is the norm throughout the West. Though I guess Britain was responsible for Marxism in the first place.

Re:What kind of agenda is that? (2, Insightful)

bongomanaic (755112) | more than 5 years ago | (#27131217)

So where on Earth did these guys get their agenda from? Why the fuck are they pushing for stuff like that? What's wrong with these people? That's not how being a liberal is supposed to be.

The Labour party isn't a liberal party, it's a populist pro-business centre right (by European standards) party. It's platform since the early 1990s has been "the third way", i.e. the pursuit of egalitarian aims such as reducing poverty and improving education coupled with traditionally right-wing concerns such as the promotion of market capitalism and reduction in crime. Individual liberty is low on their agenda. They promised a fairer and more prosperous society, not a freer society. The UK government's position is easy to understand when you consider that, unlike most EU countries, the UK is a net exporter of cultural goods. The short-term interests of an important sector of the UK economy would be threatened by the introduction of net neutrality.

What's up with England? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27131253)

Can any UK person explain what's up with your government. Do you guys actually WANT to emulate some bizarre cross between 1984 and Brazil? There's almost no benefit to you guys from 90% of the policies your government is carrying out. At least in America a lot of people tried voting for the other team. Seriously, what gives?

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