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Kremlin-Backed Nashi Admits Cyberattacking Estonia

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the please-send-me-some-polonium-antidote dept.

The Internet 181

An anonymous reader writes "Russia's Kremlin-based youth movement Nashi admits being responsible for 2007 cyberattacks against Estonia. An interesting point is that when you DDoS the systems, it's not the fault of some people who want to crash it but instead the systems' for blocking their users due to technical limitations. So if I shot someone to death it's not my fault for shooting them, but theirs instead because of technical limitations of their body."

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181 comments

Ummmm (1)

yerktoader (413167) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156479)

Yeah, so now I can take care of all those pesky drivers out there....Wait, what?

Justice (5, Funny)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156485)

At least we can count on the Russian prosecutors to investigate and extradite those responsible in a timely manner.

Re:Justice (0, Flamebait)

Threemoons (70070) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156593)

*sound of canned laughter*

He's here all week, folks, don't forget to tip your server! Try the fish!

Seriously, if the Russian thug-ernment is behind these asswipes, what makes you think they'll face any consequences?

Re:Justice (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27156669)

You need to fix your sarcasm detector.

Re:Justice (3, Funny)

Abreu (173023) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156631)

Could someone explain what was the point on admitting guilt? It takes away all the fun of the conspiracy theorists!

Re:Justice (2, Insightful)

djupedal (584558) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156845)

You've obviously never heard of anyone admitting guilt whilst having a loaded Kalashnikov pointed at the back of their head...

Re:Justice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27157115)

This is the Putin Youth we're talking about here. Who's going to threaten them?

Re:Justice (2, Funny)

ryszard99 (1193131) | more than 5 years ago | (#27159927)

Their parents?!

Re:Justice (1)

Slumdog (1460213) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157595)

You've obviously never heard of anyone admitting guilt whilst having a loaded Kalashnikov pointed at the back of their head...

Wait, this was classified. Who told you?

Re:Justice (1)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156665)

I wonder, if one of them comes to the US will the FBI put them in jail like they did Dimitri? Nah, that only happened because he and his company produced software that pissed Adobe off. Now, if these guys had chracked Sun or Microsoft they'd be in deep shit!

Re:Justice (1, Insightful)

an.echte.trilingue (1063180) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156745)

I am all for punishing the bad guys and everything, but how would US authorities have jurisdiction over an attack that happened on Estonia from Russia? Can they prove that it crossed American networks?

Re:Justice (1)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156983)

I am all for punishing the bad guys and everything, but how would US authorities have jurisdiction over an attack that happened on Estonia from Russia? Can they prove that it crossed American networks?

Maybe on the theory that they were enemy combatants against a U.S. ally?

Re:Justice (4, Insightful)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156993)

This was bad enough that there was talk that it could trigger NATO's common aggression pact: that when one country from NATO is attacked, all countries in NATO have to react as though they had been attacked. Needless to say, it didn't get there, but this was seen as a very serious test of the NATO alliance. I don't think that any prosecution will result from this, but this was taken very seriously by all members of NATO, including the US.

Re:Justice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27159665)

NATO - Not At The Office

Re:Justice (1)

spacefiddle (620205) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157021)

er. he didn't say anything about extraditing them to the US, you know... i'm sure Estonian law enforcement would be the ones who get to handle this, our World Police badge notwithstanding...

Re:Justice (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27156811)

I typed out a humorous (to me) reply to this, previewed it, and then thought the better of submitting it.

Is it strange that someone sitting in the American Midwest actually felt real fear of Russian power - enough to self-censor communications?

Or am I just exceptionally cowardly? :)

Re:Justice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27157349)

yeah, you suck dude.

Re:Justice (1)

Shihar (153932) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157377)

I am pretty sure you are just a coward.

If Russia has the capacity to send out hit squads and kill every single anti-Russian flame, troll, or well reasoned point, the rest of the world should pretty much just surrender now and welcome our new Russian overlords.

Re:Justice (1)

Slumdog (1460213) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157689)

welcome our new Russian overlords.

Haven't these guys pwn'd the internet several times through a flood of news every now and then when someone somewhere was "evacuated" by ingenious means? They have the power to dominate news outlets at will, all they do is find a clever cold-blooded way to set off the process, and then it enters your psyche.

Re:Justice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27158727)

Yes, just like the USA would extradite US citizens to Russia if they were accused of committing crimes there?

Doing them a favor (5, Funny)

just_another_sean (919159) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156563)

An interesting point is that when you DDoS the systems, it's not the fault of some people who want to crash it but instead the systems' for blocking their users due to technical limitations.

Absolutely, Nashi was doing them a favor by pointing out the flaws in their systems. I think Estonia should reciprocate and offer them high paying jobs in their IT Department. While slightly misguided these Nashi kids are obviously gifted. Put their talents to use for good and I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong.

Re:Doing them a favor (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156629)

Actually give some credit. Pulling of a DDOS, without lots of money, is quite hard (and even when you have money, there are lots of dumb ways that won't work, such as buying bandwidth somewhere and have a server-farm do the ddossing).

Re:Doing them a favor (1)

malkir (1031750) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156855)

All they did was distribute a tool to the kids who used it willingly...it's like asking a zombie to bite you, 'please sir, may I have another?'

Re:Doing them a favor (1)

vishbar (862440) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157249)

Plus (this being Russia after all) how many of them had connections in the Russian Business Network [wikipedia.org] and, perhaps, a couple of botnets at hand?

Re:Doing them a favor (2, Insightful)

aurispector (530273) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157877)

This being Russia and all, I wouldn't believe a word of it. The Soviet Union collapsed and the KGB took over. If the RBN had a hand it was probably at the request of the government. Welcome to the new cold war.

Re:Doing them a favor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27157269)

it's kind of sad really, they only managed to scrounge up 800mbits?

Talent.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27156633)

Since when did script kiddies become talented?

Re:Doing them a favor (1)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157027)

I think Estonia should reciprocate and offer them high paying jobs in their IT Department.

And hang them as a war criminal on their second workday.

Sounds good to me. (1)

Ungrounded Lightning (62228) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157041)

I think Estonia should reciprocate and offer them high paying jobs in their IT Department.

Sounds like a great idea to me.

They could help build the country's new IT infrastructure at the Viru [wikimedia.org] site.

Re:Doing them a favor (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 5 years ago | (#27159025)

Or reciprocate by indirectly pointing out flaws in Russian IT sites.

Well technically (2, Funny)

duckInferno (1275100) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156603)

due to cryogenics and the strong possibility of future revival, it's pretty difficult to shoot somebody to true death -- only legal death :)

EULA for bullets (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27156607)

By accepting this bullet into your body, you agree that the user of this bullet, that any damage, implicit and otherwise done to you, is not responsible for any damages.

Full Metal EULA (1)

mjwx (966435) | more than 5 years ago | (#27159723)

By accepting this bullet into your body, you agree that the user of this bullet, that any damage, implicit and otherwise done to you, is not responsible for any damages.

Mod parent up.

That is the same argument for DeCSS (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156637)

People have made the same argument regarding CSS and the use of DeCSS. Many times I have heard "It is the fault of the media companies in that they used a very insecure lock!" I think the "bullet in the face" rationale is a lot more dramatic and illustrates precisely why the "it's their fault for being weak" argument is wrong, but I think it is important to realize that many of us here have used the very same argument in the past.

Re:That is the same argument for DeCSS (3, Insightful)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156781)

This isn't like taking a hammer to a lock and saying "the lock was too weak". This is leaving the keys in the lock - how can a lock with the keys in it stop anyone?

CSS cannot work. it must leave the keys or the DVD won't play.

Re:That is the same argument for DeCSS (2, Insightful)

giorgist (1208992) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156897)

Hang on hang on ...

Can I keep my money safe on my front lawn ?
There is a point where you have to prove you have invested a reasonable amount of effort to protect your slef. You can't ask the goverment to protect you when you have done your part.

There is a balance somehwere in between and depends on the society. In the US you are expected to bare arms. In japan you can use a paper door (point exadurated for dramatic effect)

Re:That is the same argument for DeCSS (3, Funny)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157033)

Bare arms? So, fistfights == reasonable amount of effort to protect myself? :)

Re:That is the same argument for DeCSS (2, Insightful)

Al Dimond (792444) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157093)

The main argument for the use of DeCSS is that people have a right (regardless of what the government says) to decode the media they own. I think most people claiming that right claim it regardless of how hard it is, and regardless of disapproval for other actions of media companies in general.

On the other hand, the hackers involved controlled a botnet and ordered a DOS attack. They justified it only as retaliation for other actions by Estonia, and in the way you describe, which is indeed a very weak argument.

I'm not saying that arguers on /. never use arguments like the one you mention, but what you say is hardly the principle justification for use of DeCSS.

To quote: (1)

XaviorPenguin (789745) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156653)

..." it's not my fault for shooting them, but theirs instead because of technical limitations of their body."

That's right, if I die, it is my fault for not being born Superman.

Aggression (1)

Renraku (518261) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156677)

Sounds like signs of aggression to me.

Maybe this should warrant a strongly worded letter from the UN?

Re:Aggression (5, Funny)

Em Emalb (452530) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156735)

Dear Sir,

I must tell you that I STRENUOUSLY OBJECT to the SARCASM inherent in your post.

Please be advised that you will not receive another warning to tone down the sarcasm.

If your sarcasm levels remain high with regards to the UN, we will be forced to send another letter EVEN MORE STRENUOUSLY OBJECTING THAN THIS ONE responding to your sarcasm.

Have a wonderful, love-filled day.

Yours forever,
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon

Re:Aggression (1, Troll)

Hillgiant (916436) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157391)

Fuckit. Let's just invade. Finish the job Regan started back in the 80's.

Re:Aggression (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27159485)

Agreed. As the WWII has shown, the biggest economic stimulus a government can deliver is a war. A nuclear winter is going to make us all RICH!

Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (5, Interesting)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156685)

Stories like this are guaranteed to bring out the Russian nationalists... The Estonians deserved it, Nashi is a misunderstood organization, or that it was really just completely normal operation with no nefarious intent. It's always fun to read the ideological contortions used to justify crap like this.

All I can say is that Russia is acting like a local thug - swinging around its energy club, demanding internatiol recognition and tribute from its vassal states. Not to say that this is a bad way of achieving its goal, but it certainly puts the Kibosh on some historians' argument that the fall of Russian Communism signaled the end of autocratic and thuggish regimes. Instead, this tells me that nationalism (in its ugliest form) is alive and well across the world (including in the US, btw), and that we're in for a whole lot of fun not seen since the dawn of the last century.

Woo.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (2, Insightful)

Trent Hawkins (1093109) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156753)

Mind you it's just a guy who happens to be a member of Nashi, not all of Nashi or the Kremlin that's responsible. But hey, guilty by association, right? Just like Obama is pals with terrorists, right?

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156875)

Hey, Rush is a Republican, therefore all Republicans must be loud-mouthed, ignorant bigots... yep, it works for me!

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (5, Interesting)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156925)

Uhhhh.... Nashi is sponsored by the Russian government. Its explicit goal is the purging of fascist elements from Russian zones of interests. It is habitually violent, xenophobic and nationalistic. A small, scripted DDOS is actually pretty benign for Nashi's MO. If Estonia wasn't an independent country with close ties to NATO, there would have been a hell of a lot more physical violence coming from Nashi.

And while you're right that guilt by association is a cheap way to judge people, past experience says that this operation quite likely met with approval at all levels of the organization. In that sense, it's quite like the Russian Government: very few things happen that aren't blessed or encouraged in principle by the head brass.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (1)

Trent Hawkins (1093109) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156991)

A ha, but Nashi wasn't responsible. Some dude from Nashi was.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (1)

rhizome (115711) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157335)

A ha, but Nashi wasn't responsible. Some dude from Nashi was.

By that standard, Nashi can never be responsible for anything.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (1)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157383)

Not to mention that organizations would be completely useless concepts. I understand that an organization does not do anything on its own (being a theoretical concept and all), but your parent post takes that sophistry a little far.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27157441)

By that standard, Nashi can never be responsible for anything.

It can if it adopts a policy to take certain actions, or if someone in a leadership position tells one or more members to take such actions. Nashi is then responsible for those actions.

If a Nashi member decides on his own to write and launch a DDoS script, Nashi bears no responsibility. Any more than my employer bears responsibility for my opinion on this topic.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (1)

Shihar (153932) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157585)

Right. And Nazi's were not to blame for exterminating the Jews. Some dudes that were Nazis were doing all the exterminating. Can't blame the Nazi's for that, can you?

If Russia prosecutes the people responsible, eh, maybe I'll buy that Putin's little fascist youth gang doesn't deserve to be maligned. Of course, seeing as how Nashi, err, people who happen to be a part of Nashi regularly meet in groups to perform various illegal acts with a wink and a nod from the state and don't get prosecuted, I am willing to put my money on no one suffering any consequences inside of Russia.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27160041)

Right. And Nazi's were not to blame for exterminating the Jews. Some dudes that were Nazis were doing all the exterminating. Can't blame the Nazi's for that, can you?

If Russia prosecutes the people responsible, eh, maybe I'll buy that Putin's little fascist youth gang doesn't deserve to be maligned. Of course, seeing as how Nashi, err, people who happen to be a part of Nashi regularly meet in groups to perform various illegal acts with a wink and a nod from the state and don't get prosecuted, I am willing to put my money on no one suffering any consequences inside of Russia.

And Godwined! you loose.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27158003)

In that sense, it's quite like the Russian Government: very few things happen that aren't blessed or encouraged in principle by the head brass.

What is your source to make such comment? How do you know how these decisions are made and approved? Are you part of Russian bureaucracy or top brass yourself, or may be you are from intelligence community? I think you know nothing, and this is just another example of bigotry, prejudice and stereotypical judgment.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (1)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 5 years ago | (#27158429)

I read. Do you?

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27159081)

What do you read? Being literate is hardly an argument. What do you read? Remember, I asked this question in previous post. How do you know how these decisions are made and approved? Do you read reports on structure of the Russian government? Or some sort of research about how it operates or Fox news 5 minutes snippet? On what are you basing your claims?

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (1)

M. Baranczak (726671) | more than 5 years ago | (#27160029)

I read. Do you?

Not me, I just look at the pictures.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (4, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 5 years ago | (#27159693)

Its explicit goal is the purging of fascist elements from Russian zones of interests

Correction: its explicit goal is the purging of anyone they label "fascist" from Russian zones of interest. For example, the entire anti-Putin Other Russia [wikipedia.org] coalition, including Kasparov, was labeled "fascists" and "extremists" by Nashi. In general, they apply the label to anyone who is in opposition to the existing regime.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27159893)

I agree with you, lets get things straight. "Other Russia" are not faschists and extremists. They just ass clowns.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (1)

mjwx (966435) | more than 5 years ago | (#27159765)

Uhhhh.... Nashi is sponsored by the Russian government. Its explicit goal is the purging of fascist elements from Russian zones of interests. It is habitually violent, xenophobic and nationalistic.

A highly nationalistic and xenophobic group has been tasked with purging fascist elements? does anyone else see the problem here?

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (2, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 5 years ago | (#27160141)

A highly nationalistic and xenophobic group has been tasked with purging fascist elements? does anyone else see the problem here?

Ahh, there's a bit of a fundamental problem there... See, it's a sort of collective schizophrenia in average Russian mentality.

On one hand, there's this traditional yearning for the "strong hand" and strong state, which is almost inevitably at least moderately nationalist; add to that the large influx of immigrants - legal and illegal - from Middle Asia states to Russia after the collapse of the USSR (the ones who "stink" and "speak funny" and "steal jobs" and "commit the most crimes" - I'm sure Americans especially can spot the similarities here with something they're familiar with) - and that nationalism easily transforms into xenophobia and racism.

On the other hand, every kid in Russia knows that "USSR won the war" (WW2, of course, or rather the "Great War for Fatherland" - that's Eastern Front 1941-45). And that the enemies in that war were "nazis" and "fascists" (all of them and at the same time - including Finns and all other collaborating nations), and that they were evil because they were racist and wanted to kill lots of people in Russia and Eastern Europe as untermenschen. So apparently racism is bad, and of course "nazism" sounds pretty close to "nationalism", and they were often conflated especially in the USSR.

The end result is what we observe: an effectively fascist pro-government organization which itself uses "fascist" as a derogative term for all its political opponents.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27157003)

In Soviet Russia, Russian nationalists bring out the story! Wait...

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (5, Funny)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157075)

All I can say is that Russia is acting like a local thug - swinging around its energy club ...

Dude, if they have energy clubs, I'm not even going to try stopping them. I mean, DAMN....

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27157891)

Funny, I thought that this story will bring bring Estonian nationalist. The only country in Europe that honors nazy SS veterans (http://www.webplanet.ru/news/security/2007/05/02/eesti.html).

To the point of DDOS attacks. Guy admitted responsibility for DDOS attacks in May 2007 (http://www.webplanet.ru/news/security/2007/05/02/eesti.html in Russian, babelfish is your friend) , where he said that he did it with group of Moldavian hackers. Moldova is an independent nation about 500 miles away from nearest Russian border. I know it is Slashdot and 2 year old news are still new but messing up with geography is just too much.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27159975)

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27160387)

Right.... and Auschwitz Treblinka and Buchenwald were just a way to avenge for the injustices committed by Jews.

You beloved Estonian nazi guarded and exterminated people in concentration camps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klooga_concentration_camp . They were so successful that they were send to Belarus, to help with extermination.

Even Estonian (!) committee recognized and condemned these crimes (http://www.historycommission.ee/temp/conclusions.htm#crimger).

Defending SS??? From what planet are you?

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (3, Insightful)

StarkRG (888216) | more than 5 years ago | (#27158637)

Basically Russia is just doing what the US has for the past 60 years only on a smaller scale.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 5 years ago | (#27159875)

The USA is certainly also an imperialist country with long-standing world domination ambitions, but I don't recall it being involved in a large-scale genocide within the last 60, or even last 100 years.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (1)

StarkRG (888216) | more than 5 years ago | (#27159981)

You're right, only small-scale ones.

Re:Waiting for the Russian nationalists... (1)

M. Baranczak (726671) | more than 5 years ago | (#27160145)

Stories like this are guaranteed to bring out the Russian nationalists...

Didn't take long, did it?

Sociopaths (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27156755)

  How many times have we seen the fomenting of sociopathic hackers not blow up in the faces of the employers?

Putin's cronies need to be put down (0, Flamebait)

0xdeadbeef (28836) | more than 5 years ago | (#27156831)

An interesting point is that when you DDoS the systems, it's not the fault of some people who want to crash it but instead the systems' for blocking their users due to technical limitations. So if I shot someone to death it's not my fault for shooting them, but theirs instead because of technical limitations of their body.

It's the "I'm not touching you I'm not touching I'm not touching you" defense!

By that logic, we should just go ahead and nuke Russia now. It's not really our fault that they don't have a viable missile defense system.

Re:Putin's cronies need to be put down (1)

Em Emalb (452530) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157039)

I was thinking it was more of the "well she wouldn't have been raped if she wasn't dressed so skimpily" defense.

There's analogies, and then there's analogies (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27157101)

So if I shot someone to death it's not my fault for shooting them, but theirs instead because of technical limitations of their body.

Or if the US caused the economic collapse of the Soviet Union, then it was their fault because of the the technical limitations of their communism.

I don't like Russia and how it acts, but if you're going to talk about Russia you've got to bring in their viewpoint. The Soviet collapse and economic disaster is seen as capitalist invasion, which has been beaten back from the gates of Moscow by Putin of the KGB.

It could have gone differently, but we were happy to let them sink, and we skipped numerous opportunities to encourage and support and demand democratic change alongside market reform. Bush let Putin do what he wanted as long as Putin backed Bush's Iraq policy. It was a poor trade and it's going to continue to cost us.

Re:There's analogies, and then there's analogies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27159511)

The Soviet collapse and economic disaster is seen as capitalist invasion, which has been beaten back from the gates of Moscow by Putin of the KGB.

By whom? The opinion in Russia is, largely, that Russia was brought down by incompetent leadership, and that Putin is not a miraculous exception. Except not many people are quite ready to oppose him, because it is not very safe.

Re:There's analogies, and then there's analogies (3, Interesting)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 5 years ago | (#27159717)

By whom? The opinion in Russia is, largely, that Russia was brought down by incompetent leadership, and that Putin is not a miraculous exception.

Yeah, that's why Putin's approval ratings went through the roof when he came to power.

Thats cool and all, but (1)

Phizzle (1109923) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157143)

there is already a guy in custody who has been convicted and tried for this one in Estonia. The so called, youth movement Nashi, are publicity whores and their technological acumen is limited to shit you can learn on a farm.

the new murder defense!?? (1)

ssintercept (843305) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157199)

"...if I shot someone to death it's not my fault for shooting them, but theirs instead because of technical limitations of their body."

that made me spit coffee at the monitor...
only johnnie cochran could pull off that defense.

Re:the new murder defense!?? (1)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157545)

Well... what if shootings were so ridiculously common that only a fool would venture outside their home without a bullet proof vest? So then I shoot you in the chest for no readily apparent reason but you were too stupid to put on your vest that morning. I claim to the jury that I figured you were wearing a vest so I didn't expect any harm, therefore it's your fault for forgetting your vest that day...

Nope, still doesn't work (I really did try though). It would be impossible to convince the jury that I shot you just because I felt like it rather than to maim or kill you. Especially since the fact that there is no reason to pull the trigger if I am so sure you have the protection to walk away unscathed. Likewise, if they truly believed that the sites they were attacking were properly defended, there would have been no reason to attack them in the first place.

Obligatory (2, Funny)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157231)

In soviet Russia:
1. Attack victim
2. Blame victim
3. ????
4. Profit

Re:Obligatory (1)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 5 years ago | (#27157993)

In soviet Russia:
1. Attack victim
2. Blame victim
3. ????
4. Profit

Gaaaahhh! Are you crazy? Those two memes have never been combined before! We have no idea how your post will be moderated! Is there some way you can delete it before they notice?

Re:Obligatory (1)

billius (1188143) | more than 5 years ago | (#27158465)

Oh god, nooooo, it's being moded over 9,000!!!!!

Re:Obligatory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27159205)

I have a mod point left, but I can't find the "-1 complete idiot" mod. So, take this as a virtual bitch slap, and never post again.

Logical (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27157709)

"So if I shot someone to death it's not my fault for shooting them, but theirs instead because of technical limitations of their body."

In Soviet Russia...

Works two ways... (2, Insightful)

uffe_nordholm (1187961) | more than 5 years ago | (#27158489)

If the Kremlin wants any appearance of being "fair" (please notice I am not actually accusing them of this, I am jsut hypothesising...) then they can't object if the rest of the world retaliates, and DDOSes them to such a degree they themselves choose to shut down all conenctions between Russia and the rest of the world.

For after all, what were the Russians upset about? A statue of some WW2-hero was moved. What does the rest of the world have to get upset about? Well, a number of East-European countries were left without heating gas in the beginning of January, to such an extent that even Germany felt it. Since this seems to be a recuring "phenomenon" why shouldn't Russia find itself DDOSed off internet once a year?

I am quite sure that Georgia (the country, not the US state) could very easily find reason to DDOS Russia. And I seem to remember Poland having been left without heating gas a few years ago, so even they would have perfect reasons to DDOS Russia.

If the Kremlin really think DDOSing someone is the way things work in the world, they jsut might find themselves further up the creek than they would want to be... For even those countries not affected by Russias slightly beligerent foreign politics could easily turn a blind eye to any illegal matters going on inside their borders, as long as the target is inside Russia.

Re:Works two ways... (1)

TrueRecord (1101681) | more than 5 years ago | (#27159469)

"I am quite sure that Georgia (the country, not the US state) could very easily find reason to DDOS Russia."

They did DDOS the Russian news sites

Re:Works two ways... (1)

bioluminescence (970351) | more than 5 years ago | (#27160047)

Oh, really? Do you work for the Russian government by any chance?

Re:Works two ways... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27159561)

For after all, what were the Russians upset about? A statue of some WW2-hero was moved.

Kiddo, it was a grave of 9 men who died in WWII under this statue. Their remains were excavated with bulldozers, moved, lost and mixed up during the move. As Russian I felt the same as American would do feel about desecration of Arlington cemetery. If it is No Big Deal for you I pity you. That was a reason for people outrage that over spilled and become ugly.

Re:Works two ways... (4, Informative)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 5 years ago | (#27159849)

Kiddo, it was a grave of 9 men who died in WWII under this statue. Their remains were excavated with bulldozers, moved, lost and mixed up during the move.

Probably in that order, too - lost, then mixed up, right? I guess a guy in your TV box told you that?

Here's what actually happened: the remains were indeed extracted, carefully separated, and moved to a predesignated place along with the monument. Both the monument and the grave are fully intact at the new place. Unfortunately, quite a few Russians aren't aware of that, because the state-owned TV channels showed photos of the statue's feet alone standing on the pedestal, claiming that the rest was sawn off and dragged away (and then the bit about mix-up of remains, etc). A day later, people on the Net recognized the TV picture - it was actually a photoshopped pic produced several months before that by some Russian blogger as a warning and protest against the impending move.

By the way, during the reburial, Estonians did DNA analysis on the bones, and determined the names of the people who were actually buried on the site (until then, their identities were unknown). For four of those, after their identification, their Russian relatives have asked to turn over the bodies, which was done.

Re:Works two ways... (3, Informative)

bioluminescence (970351) | more than 5 years ago | (#27160101)

The remains of the dead soviet soldiers were excavated by specially trained team (not by bulldozers) and were moved to a military cemetery (and not lost, and mixed up). What's wrong with you russians? Your lying is pathological.

so full of Baltic-brownish stuff... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27159109)

What a typical Baltic's full-of-crap-propaganda well-aligned with their US based handlers... the whole story is full of it... Disgusting...

Re:so full of Baltic-brownish stuff... (1)

bioluminescence (970351) | more than 5 years ago | (#27160143)

There is pretty much no nazism in the Baltic states. It's a Russian government/media created myth.

Obviously (0, Troll)

TrueRecord (1101681) | more than 5 years ago | (#27159195)

Any decent man pinged those Estonian Nazi bastards who made that show with the monument and bodies of the fallen soldiers.

Re:Obviously (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27159361)

The momument was not what you could really describe as something good. Some years ago only veterans gathered there to celebrate World War II victory - and they bothered noone, really. Then these later-to-be Nashists came and started burning Estonian flags and waving Soviet Union flags there. That caused the problem that ended with relocating the momument (to military cemetery, where it really belongs, not by a trolleybus stop where it used to be). Some Russians started being idiots there, and some Estonians, too. Some peed on the monument. If it's a war memorial, it shouldn't be treated like that. That's why I think relocating was a good idea. And I, for example, wouldn't want to be buried under a bus stop. That would be an insult to me, but that's what Soviet officials did.

Anyway, the Bronze Soldier represented two things to Estonians. Of course everyone knew that it was erected to celebrate victory over Nazis. Nobody argued that. But the fact many Russians forget is that it also reminds the Estonians the Soviet occupation. Think - you are liberated from Germans by Russians and you are happy for that. But then the liberators occupy you. Is this liberation?

By the way, the monument is designed by an Estonian sculptor. The Bronze Soldier looks down with a sad face. It is said that the sculptor did it on purpose to show the shame of the "liberator" (because of the genocide by Soviet Union against Estonian citizens [Russians living in Estonia at that time, too]). So if you praise the old Soviet Union, always remember that the monument doesn't do it. It shows the shame.

Re:Obviously (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27159487)

By the way, Russia did the same with a number of WW2 monuments the same and next year. Some were even demolished. And when other countries asked what they were doing they replied that it was their business, not others'. But they still thought Estonian monument was not Estonia's business.

Re:Obviously (1)

TrueRecord (1101681) | more than 5 years ago | (#27159783)

because of the genocide by Soviet Union against Estonian citizens

I think you don't really know what genocide really is playing the words so lightly.

It's true Estonian was occupied but Estonian was German ally in WW2. Don't you know that the whole Europe was divided by those who won? Estonian as a trophy was taken by the USSR with their natural desire to move off the border. After that war it was so natural. The Estonians could as well complain about the winter or rain.

Re:Obviously (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27160209)

And that proves my point why the Bronze Soldier should have been and was moved. If you were beaten up, would you like a picture of that in your bedroom for the rest of your life?

Re:Obviously (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27160475)

What about the Soviet terror [wikipedia.org] ? Mass deportations and killings? Does that sound like a warm summer breeze to you?

I thank you for 7our time (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27160265)

that's russia for you (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 5 years ago | (#27160277)

there has never been a democratic period in russia's entire history. they dont have any understanding of it.

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