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Feds Demand Prison For Guns N' Roses Uploader

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the welcome-to-the-jungle dept.

Music 590

Defeat Globalism writes with this excerpt from Wired: "Federal prosecutors in Los Angeles are pursuing a 6-month prison term for a Los Angeles man who pleaded guilty in December to one misdemeanor count of uploading pre-release Guns N' Roses tracks, according to court documents. Kevin Cogill was arrested last summer at gunpoint and charged with uploading nine tracks of the Chinese Democracy album to his music site — antiquiet.com. The album, which cost millions and took 17 years to complete, was released November 23 and reached No. 3 in the charts. The sentence being sought — including the calculation of damages based on the illegal activity of as many as 1,310 websites that disseminated the music after Cogill released it — underscores how serious the government is about punishing those for uploading pre-release material."

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590 comments

fp (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193089)

eat my asshole!

Re:fp (5, Funny)

uxbn_kuribo (1146975) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193105)

it only took two hundred years to go from "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country," to, "eat my asshole." :(

Re:fp (3, Informative)

Kokuyo (549451) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193147)

And you think the first is, or ever has been, a healthy kind of relationship between a citizen and their country?

Re:fp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193309)

Well, I guess countries who have the first kind of citizen die... eventually.

Re:fp (4, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193343)

It's worth giving your life for a worthy cause, like protecting you & your neighbors' freedoms from a tyrannical non-representative British government, as the man who uttered that quote was doing.

Otherwise, no.

Re:fp (4, Funny)

Niris (1443675) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193417)

To paraphrase: No one ever won a war by dying for his country. They won the war by making the other poor sap die for his.

Re:fp (3, Informative)

jdbausch (1419981) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193787)

exact quote: "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

Re:fp (1)

Niris (1443675) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193803)

There we go . I had to paraphrase it because I didn't want to quote it wrong and was too lazy to open another tab and google it *sighs*

He should go to prison, but not for... (5, Insightful)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193095)

Don't put him in prison for stealing the album. Shoot him for promoting it. 17 years and GNR gives us, what, a big pile of overrated crap.

Re:He should go to prison, but not for... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193167)

To be fair, he did disrespect a major record label. Isn't that a corporate offense that requires jail time?

Re:He should go to prison, but not for... (4, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193455)

In other countries, "Disrespect for the president, legislature, or government" is grounds for jail time. In America it's "disrespect for a CEO, the board, or corporation" that leads to jail time.

(shrug). If I was jailed for "stealing" works off the internet, then I'd figure I might as well go ahead & steal the real thing. Walmart here I come.

You should (5, Insightful)

Weaselmancer (533834) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193747)

Less risk. Is WalMart going to claim each track on that CD you stole is worth $750? [afterdawn.com]

Steal a CD, you're guilty of a $20 crime. But if you do it with a computer somehow you're liable for (14*$750=$10,500) dollars worth of damage.

Or in this poor sap's case, 6 months in a federal lockup for daring to offend his corporate masters.

Amazing, isn't it? That the feds and corporate America are actually making the case that it's better to physically rob a store rather than simply downloading an mp3? It's unreal.

Re:He should go to prison, but not for... (5, Insightful)

AmigaHeretic (991368) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193349)

You're so right. A kid uploads a CD and should go to prison, but on a daily basis around here the jails are so full they release criminals constantly. They have some sort of computer program that tries to determine the "least bad" crimes and criminals and let those ones out first.

People here in our county know for most crimes they will "maybe" spend a single night in jail for anything other then murder before they are let go the next day.

It's a joke around here when litterally there is no room for rapists, drunk drivers, and other 'violent' criminals in jail, but some one uploads some MP3s and OH MY GOD, get him.. Give me freakin' break.


It's like they talked about on that movie, on COPS (tv show) they'll have 3 cops chasing a guy down the street and beat him to the ground because he just stole $85. But some corporate criminal that steals $85,000,000.00 and well they treat him with kid gloves.

Some people need a reality check.

Re:He should go to prison, but not for... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193533)

It's like they talked about on that movie, on COPS (tv show) they'll have 3 cops chasing a guy down the street and beat him to the ground because he just stole $85. But some corporate criminal that steals $85,000,000.00 and well they treat him with kid gloves.

Well, to be fair, that $85 won't get you much of a lawyer. But the $85 mil will get you a few good lawyers, and if you work it right, a congressman or two.

Re:He should go to prison, but not for... (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193609)

But the $85 mil will get you a few good lawyers, and if you work it right, a congressman or two.

That's why the guy that stole $85 million dollars gets to see the guy that stole 85 dollars thrown into jail.

Re:He should go to prison, but not for... (1)

v1 (525388) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193637)

lets be fair here. congressmen are a lot cheaper than that...

Re:He should go to prison, but not for... (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193589)

Amiga - Remember when computing was fun?

I sure do. Back then, it was PERSONAL computing, not NETWORK computing.

Re:He should go to prison, but not for... (5, Insightful)

Kell Bengal (711123) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193749)

What I don't understand is why (FTFA) they arrested him with weapons drawn like he's a dangerous thug. What, might he at any moment whip out some freaky pirate-fu and delete them, their kittens and their backups using his bluetooth remote? And this in the same country where any suspected white-collar criminal will be escorted out of his plush penthouse office with a mere "Sir, please come with us."

RIAA got its wish (5, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193097)

Now tax dollars will be used to keep them in business instead of producing decent products. Federal criminal agents will be involved in what is a civil court issue.

Tho many will say 'good, jail him he's a bad person', few will understand what is really going on here.

Freedom takes another hit.

It Is a Criminal Issue You Fool (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193329)

He pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor, which is violation of CRIMINAL law. It's not a civil issue here, no matter how much you wish it was. There are criminal statutes for copyright infringement, and they have been on the books for some time.

In short, it is you and many other slashbots here who do not "understand what is really going on here." Stop with this nonsense, please.

Re:It Is a Criminal Issue You Fool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193393)

I smell hypocrisy.

I really don't care what you call it (2, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193395)

Changing laws to convert a civil corporate issue into a criminal issue also fall within my statement.

Its still industries buying laws. Its still misuse of public funds/resources.

And i don't care what the purchased laws say, its still not a 'crime against society'.

Re:I really don't care what you call it (4, Interesting)

squidfood (149212) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193497)

Its still industries buying laws. Its still misuse of public funds/resources.

You know, I'm pretty strong anti-current copyright, I think the copyright lengths are way out of whack; DRM circumvention laws are wrong; fair use should allow more sharing than the industry wants, etc.

But I also think that (were everything to reach a reasonable compromise one day) that uploading an unreleased album to wide availability (where even its sale hasn't yet been permitted by the rightsholder) could reasonably be called a misdemeanor theft on the level of shoplifting, and that (minor, short-term) incarceration rates could be reasonable as a maximum penalty. Whether or not a judge should grant the maximum sentence on first offense is another matter.

Re:I really don't care what you call it (1, Interesting)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193573)

See, i don't see a problem with offering a file ( or downloading it after its offered ), and don't equate it to shoplifting in the least.

Now, if he was selling access or making $ off banner ads due to the downloads, then we would be on the same side of the fence. Tho i would still argue against a *criminal* charge since the original object was not harmed and is still in 'sale-able condition', I fully agree its illegal in that case.

Re:I really don't care what you call it (2, Informative)

conureman (748753) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193593)

Currently, the Federal Government hasn't taken jurisdiction on shoplifting enforcement.

Re:It Is a Criminal Issue You Fool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193755)

it's still a f'in waste to put him in jail. of course, that's the case with a lot of people incarcerated.

Re:It Is a Criminal Issue You Fool (1)

Kell Bengal (711123) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193809)

Tut tut. Copyright violators are dangerous criminals who might, at any moment, delete your kittens. Prison is the only safe place for them.

Re:RIAA got its wish (1)

conureman (748753) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193363)

Prima fascia, this does seem like a civil issue, but IANAL. Wouldn't it be ironic to hold corporations' Directors criminally liable for the shit they are culpable of?

Re:RIAA got its wish (1)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193367)

Tho many will say 'good, jail him he's a bad person', few will understand what is really going on here.

Yeah, really bad. Tell me again: how many bankers, ex-presidents and the like have been arrested at gunpoint for fucking up the economy?

Re:RIAA got its wish (5, Insightful)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193435)

Yeah, really bad. Tell me again: how many bankers, ex-presidents and the like have been arrested at gunpoint for fucking up the economy?

Yes, none so far. Madoff is gone, and if Jon Stewart has any say more will follow him. There is a disproportionate use of the justice system in the USA. Upload some songs or smoke a little weed and you are a federal criminal. Steal millions or billions from the people's pocket and you simply made a mistake, one that deserves more money to help you out.

Justice might be blind, but fairness doesn't seem to come with that particular malady.

Re:RIAA got its wish (1)

GoodNicksAreTaken (1140859) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193501)

GNR isn't bringing out a new album, Chinese Democracy is the new government they are bringing to the US through their law suits. You don't honestly believe it could take over a decade to produce some crusty hair rock tracks?

Has beens (1)

future assassin (639396) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193119)

Considering how has been they are he did them a favor. He should be commended on letting people know in advanced so they wouldn't waste their money on this album.

Re:Has beens (4, Funny)

aurispector (530273) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193289)

That's exactly why he's being prosecuted. The corporation's constitutional right to sell expensive crap is being trampled!

WARNING: If you upload Chinese Democracy (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193121)

You will get a taste of Chinese Democracy.

And you will not be hungry for it an hour later.

Gun Point? (5, Insightful)

areusche (1297613) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193133)

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! This has got to be one of the most excessive police actions ever. Sending a man to jail for a non-violent offense. I hate this country's legal system.

Re:Gun Point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193151)

Oh, come on, they should have executed him on the spot. He's obviously guilty of a heinous crime and must pay dearly.

Re:Gun Point? (2, Insightful)

will_die (586523) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193239)

If decide to create a petition I am sure you can get Martha Stewart and bernie madoff to sign.

Re:Gun Point? (4, Insightful)

jshackney (99735) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193263)

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! This has got to be one of the most excessive police actions ever. Sending a man to jail for a non-violent offense. I hate this country's legal system.

Going to jail for nonviolent crimes [wikipedia.org] isn't new and it certainly isn't an exclusive feature of the U.S.'s judicial system. At least, he's not very likely to die during his time served. Y'all might want to send him some soap-on-a-rope though.

Re:Gun Point? (0, Flamebait)

Niris (1443675) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193467)

If they do send him to jail, it makes me wonder what kind of prison he'd be in. Anything with violent criminals where he would be facing ass rape would be damn good grounds for a lot of people to say fuck the government and burn down a bunch of buildings iimo . "You can't fight city hall, but you sure can burn it down"

Re:Gun Point? (4, Interesting)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193735)

Yah, and we all know how great debtors prison worked out. Honestly, for all non-violent offenses there should be no jail time whatsoever. It seems like we are using jail time as more or less a "time out" rather then to keep all the violent criminals off the street (the reason jails should be used), and theres a reason why our prisons are overcrowded, we seem to send people to prison for trivial offenses (like this one), or for offenses that are totally nonviolent in nature (tax evasion, etc).

Our country really needs to take a look at the purpose of government before we do anything else. We are becoming closer and closer to a dictatorship, we already have (basically) a one-party system (for all intents and purposes, democrats and republicans are the same party), government-censored media, in some cases government controlled media, our constitution is becoming nothing more then an illusion, the bill of rights seem to be disappearing faster then ever, and our government is pursuing part-ownership in several businesses (the media calls it a bailout).

Re:Gun Point? (3, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193273)

>>>This has got to be one of the most excessive police actions ever. Sending a man to jail for a non-violent offense.

We've been doing that for a long time. Like imprisoning those who steal someone's property. We also jail people for tax fraud, or investment fraud (like that Madoff guy). So yes jailing people for non-violent offenses is acceptable.

Now that we got that out of the way, the question is: did this person commit a crime? IMHO he did. He did the equivalent of taking somebody's work without payment. If you disagree, consider this: You spend a year of your life developing a program, with plans to sell it for income, but instead I simply TAKE the program off bittorrent. I have stolen your labor without just compensation.

Re:Gun Point? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193423)

There is a legal definition of labor theft, and that isn't it.

Re:Gun Point? (1)

conureman (748753) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193543)

Okay, we'll call that a simile since it's not quite precisely what the perp did. I suggest a civil court should determine the amount of damages, and award the copyright holders with X dollars, which debt can't be erased through bankruptcy, &c. The difference between stealing a loaf of bread and copying bits of data is profoundly greater than the difference between stealing a wallet at knifepoint vs: swindling widow's pensions, which our Fearless Leaders have actually differentiated. In other words, I disagree with the misdemeanor definition of this crime.

Re:Gun Point? (1)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193301)

Sending a man to jail for a non-violent offense.

It isn't even a crime. Civil suit at best.

Re:Gun Point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193371)

How is it not a crime?

He STOLE (yes stole) material that was not released to the general public from its makers.

Re:Gun Point? (1)

v1 (525388) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193679)

How is it not a crime?

He STOLE (yes stole) material that was not released to the general public from its makers.

If you want to get technical about it, stealing (theft) is depriving someone of their property. Unless you are counting money (lost income) as the property, (and legally it doesn't usually work that way) nothing was stolen. copyright infringement is not theft

Re:Gun Point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193785)

So lets suppose he just made copies of all of Boeing's financial data, supply contracts and aircraft designs.

Copyright infringement? I doubt it.

More like industrial espionage.

If the work HASN'T been released how is it copyright infringement because NO ONE has been authorized to reproduce it.

Re:Gun Point? (1)

SupremoMan (912191) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193319)

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! This has got to be one of the most excessive police actions ever. Sending a man to jail for a non-violent offense. I hate this country's legal system.

Are you kidding me? So you think Bernie Madoff should walk? Plenty of people who commit nonviolent crimes deserve prison, some even the chair.

Re:Gun Point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193553)

Well *I* it would be *much* more appropriate for Bernie Madoff to not go to jail, but rather to be forced to pay back all the people he bilked out of their money. And should he just so happen not to have the cash on hand (offshore accounts lol), well then, let him be gainfully employed and just garnish his salary to the point where he spends his days as a wage slave choking down ramen noodles in an inner-city one-bedroom apartment.

Re:Gun Point? (1)

Logic Bomb (122875) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193635)

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! This has got to be one of the most excessive police actions ever. Sending a man to jail for a non-violent offense. I hate this country's legal system.

Bernard Madoff, the people who ran Enron, and other perpetrators of massive fraud shouldn't go to jail? Someone who runs an oil tanker aground, destroying wilderness, shouldn't go to jail? Someone who launches massive DOS attacks shouldn't go to jail?

Wow, you're an idiot.

Skewed Priorities (1, Troll)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193143)

I fully expect to be modded down for it, but this is just nuts.

Our economy is on the verge of collapsing, we have people around the world trying to kill us and an administration that is walking us down the path of socialism and they waste tax dollars on a stupid record..

Re:Skewed Priorities (5, Insightful)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193321)

an administration that is walking us down the path of socialism

No, you have an administration that is walking you down the path of corporatism. The difference is that in socialism, the government takes your tax money and spends it on things that everyone needs, like schools, medical facilities and infrastructure, but in corporatism, the government takes your tax money and gives it to people who already have more money than you can possibly imagine.

The clever bit comes when they tell you that giving money to *everyone* is communism and is bad, but giving money only to people who are already rich is good. That way they can train you to bark like a good little Pavlovian doggie at the eeevil socialists that try to steal money from your corporate masters. Work hard and bark, little doggie, and maybe they'll let you have some scraps.

Re:Skewed Priorities (4, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193427)

Question: If the plan to bailout/assist people with upside-down mortgages goes through, it will cost about $1000 per taxpaying home. Why should I spend $1000 to pay somebody else's mortgage? And would this be considered corporatism, socialism, or communism?

IMHO whatever it's called, it's a human rights violation.

Taking my money to pay somebody else's housing bill is theft of labor. It's no different than if my neighbor bought a Lexus, and then demanded everyone in the area throw-in money to pay the bill. Nobody has a right to demand I help buy them a car. Or pay their mortgage.

Re:Skewed Priorities (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193509)

Your not paying $1000 for someone else's mortgage. You're paying $1000 so the criminals who put people up to their eyeballs in debt so they could enrich themselves won't have to five up their bonuses and Manhattan penthouses. They could care less about peoples mortgages as they have amply demonstrated these past few years.

The problem is finding a way to rescue the working class without putting money in the pockets of the parasites.

Re:Skewed Priorities (1)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193751)

Nobody "put" anyone else into debt. People were greedy on both sides of this. Both the banks and the poor people who are upside down on their mortgages. It's called living within your means. Something Americans need to get back to.

Re:Skewed Priorities (3, Insightful)

Ironchew (1069966) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193547)

Taking my money to pay somebody else's housing bill is theft of labor.

I think a financial sector that systematically deregulated any oversight and pisses away over one third of our GDP on derivatives, where nobody knows who owes what to who, is theft of labor. Up another notch if they keep on demanding their executive bonus money from taxpayers, "or else the economy will collapse".

Re:Skewed Priorities (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193795)

Jesus you're stupid.

A lot of this happened because of rules Clinton and Barney Frank put into effect about allowing less-than-ideal people to get a home.

Re:Skewed Priorities (1)

RepelHistory (1082491) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193745)

Nobody has a right to demand I help buy them a car. Or pay their mortgage.

So we have absolutely no problem giving 700 BILLION dollars to the banks whose greed caused this mess in the first place, but if we give a cent to those who were screwed over by deceptive lending practices and corporate greed, it's suddenly a human rights violation? Yes, I recognize the bank bailout was necessary. But it sure as hell wasn't fair. Yes, some homeowners did act irresponsibly, but not nearly as irresponsibly as the financial institutions whose JOB is to know better. If you're willing to let home values continue to plummet due to unnecessary foreclosures just because you're still caught up over what's fair, then you're intentionally blinding yourself to a little thing I like to call REALITY.

Re:Skewed Priorities (1)

Ironchew (1069966) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193465)

Your retort was +1 Truth, but if you looked a little further into the comment:

we have people around the world trying to kill us

You were talking to a War-on-Terror nut who thinks the assassination of Abraham Lincoln was patriotic. Trolls delight in being fed.

Re:Skewed Priorities (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193797)

I looked at GP and recursion hurt mah brain. May be that sig is ironic e.g. "Washington was a tratior"

Re:Skewed Priorities (5, Insightful)

dforreal (1078047) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193587)

and I fully expect to be modded down for this reply... The Obama administration is HARDLY pursuing a socialist agenda. Political Science 101 would teach you that this is not socialism in any way shape or form... Even if it was, whats the big deal? Social Democratic programs can be implemented in ways that create jobs and reduce the cost of doing business. For example; a universal, single-payer health *insurance* system would reduce redundancy, increase the number of potential patients that doctors could see, improve productivity by reducing lost labor hours due to treatable illnesses and eliminate one of the single largest expenses per-employee that businesses currently have. Despite what the generally libertarian-leaning Slashdot crowd thinks, I would prefer a government funded not-for-profit model over the current for-profit system which costs us all more in the end.

Shouldn't this be a Civil matter? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193145)

I'm confused: all the merits of the case are civil in nature. How in hell do they justify prosecuting this man in criminal court? I don't understand: can someone please explain (and prove I'm just dumb)?

(My logic is that he made no money off his actions, and they were of absolutly no benefit to him.)

Re:Shouldn't this be a Civil matter? (5, Interesting)

davidbrucehughes (451901) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193201)

Exactly. And that is why we have moved out of the US to a more civilized country. We release all of our material--audio, video and written--under a Creative Commons license, and urge both artists and consumers to boycott the mainstream content providers. They are simply trying to maintain a business model that has been obsolete since Napster. Just let them die.

Re:Shouldn't this be a Civil matter? (2, Insightful)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193307)

>>>We release all of our material--audio, video and written--under a Creative Commons license

How much money do you make doing that? Enough to support yourself without resorting to a second job? And how do you deal with those who taken your creations without compensating you for your labor?

Re:Shouldn't this be a Civil matter? (1)

mishehu (712452) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193403)

I don't see what his income has to do with his choice. Perhaps he's not in it to become the next nysnc.

Re:Shouldn't this be a Civil matter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193503)

I fail to see what releasing material under CC license has to do with moving out of the US.

Re:Shouldn't this be a Civil matter? (3, Interesting)

Firehed (942385) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193411)

What do you mean by "deal with those who have taken your creations without compensating you for your labor"? That's the whole point of releasing under a CC license - if people choose to compensate you, great; if not, they wouldn't have bought your material anyways so suck it up.

The record industry is just a promotional vehicle anyways - you only make money on concerts after getting famous. Even bigger artists are usually lucky to break even on CD sales. Releasing under CC removes that overhead, though obviously at the expense of losing the industry's promotion skills. Word of mouth is still king.

Re:Shouldn't this be a Civil matter? (1)

future assassin (639396) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193625)

I'll wait for the GP first answer but even if he/she were working part time and making the rest of their living doing something they love all the more power to them and I wish I was in their shoes. Who cares if they don't make "video" millions from their music.

Re:Shouldn't this be a Civil matter? (4, Interesting)

Repossessed (1117929) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193523)

Pre release of copyrighted works, or release of limited distribution works (like a movie still only in theaters), has always been considered criminal, both in case law and the law as written. The logic is that in these cases the amount of damage is substantially more than more mundane piracy, since it creates a single point of release (he is responsible not just for the people he distributed it to, but every single person who downloads it prior to release).

ANY album (2, Insightful)

p51d007 (656414) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193159)

That took 17 years to release, millions to produce, especially something that a nut case like Axel Rose, can't be worth a plug nickel.

years (5, Funny)

bigdavex (155746) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193185)


The album, which cost millions and took 17 years to complete, . . .

That 17 years can be broken down as follows for Axl:

16 years, 10 months: lying around drugged out of his mind
2 months: working on music

Re:years (1)

Vectronic (1221470) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193285)

Sex, Drugs, and Rock 'n' Roll... Baby!

All the best music is made when the artists are one high away from suicide... as long as you ignore the 90% that suck shit when high.

No time for commenting, I got an album to download!

If you don't like it (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193215)

then organize a nation-wide boycott of music sales.

Whiners.

Mind you, I think the police are becoming an occupying force in this country, an arm of the Dept. of Commerce. But Slashdot makes nothing happen, so log the hell out and go organize.

Re:If you don't like it (2, Insightful)

uxbn_kuribo (1146975) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193265)

You can't boycott music sales. If you do, and the entire industry takes a financial hit, then they'll just claim piracy is on the upswing and causing them to take a financial hit. Kinda like how piracy is totally to blame for the entertainment industry's problems now, and not the fact that it keeps cranking out the same tired crap, or the fact that the economy is tanking and taking peoples' entertainment budget into the toilet with it.

What is the use of prison time? (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193221)

What is the point of prison time in the first place? Isn't it to keep dangerous criminals off the street so they don't hurt people? So what dangerous crime did this person do? Nothing. So why should my tax dollars be wasted protecting me from, in essence, nothing? Sure, if he shot a guy, lock him up, I have no problems with that because he could shoot again and injure or kill me, this guy though, my tax dollars protect me from a guy who uploaded a few songs. Wow, such a violent crime!

Re:What is the use of prison time? (1)

fooslacker (961470) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193693)

He angered the Corpocracy. You can't do that here. DUI sure, we'll slap you on the wrist that can only kill individuals but non-violent drug offense, or IP theft woah...that can harm profits and profits are more important than people in the Peoples Corpocracy of America.

I'm a libertarian at heart and pretty pro-business (small at least) on the whole but the government is not here to prop up dying business models and the fact that a country founded on liberty, individualism, self-reliance, and opportunity has become a corrupt system for protecting special interests be they either unions, or political agendas or in this case the corporations saddens me greatly.

Should this guy be fined? Absolutely, he stole something that was not his and gave it to others but our government has become as corrupt as any other in the world they're just smart enough to hide their corruption behind a civilized veneer and not fill mass graves with genocide victims so that the special interests of politicians and corporate entities can roll on.

The saddest thing of all to me is that there is no one to stand against this and both parties are part of the ever moving profit and power machine. They serve various individual special agendas rather than a core belief system or philosophy that they measure issues and ideas against. We are a nation without leaders and a people without direction and though probably inevitable it is a sad state for a place founded on the ideals of freedom, individualism and opportunity to have come to this.

Ok, self righteous rant over..cue the patriotic music.

I't just like that Babylon 5 guy said (3, Interesting)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193233)

Like J.Michael Straczynski said:

First, having talked to distributors, I can tell you straight up that
if a show [or music album] has had too much online exposure and too many downloads, if it's too much out there, they won't distribute it because the market that would want to see it already has. Second, when you download a show, it's not just that you're denying the producers/distributors of that movie or TV show the "price" of the DVD... you're also having a direct impact on the creative people who made that show, and taking from them as well. Actors, writers and directors get paid a fee to make a project, and then they get residuals, which are not a bonus, they are deferred compensation.

Free downloading ultimately destroys the financial structure for artists of all kinds, and will, if left unchecked, eventually make it impossible for any artist to make a living doing what they do. Downloaders think there's no difference between data and entertainment, that everything should be free. Great, it's free to YOU. Now, how do you propose paying the people who need to put food on the plate when they are getting nothing in return?

jms [/quote] From: "jmsatb5@aol.com"
Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:36:27 -0700 (PDT)

Re:I't just like that Babylon 5 guy said (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193279)

Where does JoCo fit in this?

Re:I't just like that Babylon 5 guy said (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193405)

Or there's this quote:

"The DVDs grossed roughly half a BILLION
dollars (and that was just after they put out S5, without all of the S5
sales in).

So what does my last profit statement say? We're $80 million in the
red.

Basically, by the terms of my contract, if a set on a WB movie burns
down in Botswana, they can charge it against B5's profits."

Is it really pirates who are harming actors, writers and directors, or is it the studios?

Re:I't just like that Babylon 5 guy said (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193581)

Pot kettle black.

One entity of leeches is video pirates. They have no lawyers, and can't hire JMS, and have a short memory.

2nd entity of leeches is the MPAA members. They have lawyers, might hire JMS in the future, and have long memories.

JMS has commented on the games Hollywood plays with DVD sales--how they avoid turning a profit--to avoid paying creative royalties.

One of the two entities mentioned has little power, so he blasts them.

Some future model of low-cost video downloads might eliminate the MPAA middlemen and cut way down on piracy. When that happens the creative types stand to earn far more than they do today.

It seems to be happening (albeit slowly) with music.

Re:I't just like that Babylon 5 guy said (5, Interesting)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193741)

I lost some respect for JMS when he wrote that. The thread was in connection with some scripts that he had written for Crusade episodes, which had not been produced. He was complaining about people distributing them online, even though the only studio that had the rights to produce them, wouldn't. His email basically said to me 'I have no more creative output to contribute. Don't advertise my talents as a writer and demand more shows written by me, because I can't create anything new anymore.'

Babylon 5 was created by someone with a story to tell, who was willing to work hard and struggle to tell that story. Crusade was created by someone who wanted to make money from a franchise. That the two were the same person is a tragedy.

Re:I't just like that Babylon 5 guy said (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193761)

Free downloading ultimately destroys the financial structure for artists of all kinds, and will, if left unchecked, eventually make it impossible for any artist to make a living doing what they do.

No downloading destroys the current middle man business model which would destroy the current version of a studio and the current distribution channels but there are plenty of ways to make money off of free content distribution. Hell, network TV has been doing it for 50 years or more. I'm not pro IP theft, I'm not a "data wants to be free" guy but I hate this kind of dishonest assessment of facts.

Poetic justice (4, Insightful)

Underholdning (758194) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193237)

The title of the album says it all. Only - I always thought they were criticizing the Chinese Democracy.

Re:Poetic justice (1)

NorQue (1000887) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193677)

Not only that, I was mislead into believing the name was actually a clever pun... like, the album gets released when China turns into a democracy (=never).

Time Served (2, Funny)

xyno512 (1480569) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193471)

But the album sucks. The fact that he actually had the the tracks and listened to them should be punishment enough.

This is utterly disgusting. It makes me sick. (2, Insightful)

Rod Beauvex (832040) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193475)

If they even put a quater as much effort into fixing the economy and punishing the people who caused this fuck up, we'd be a super power in a week, and the prisons would be bursting at the seams.

Brilliant (5, Insightful)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 5 years ago | (#27193541)

Because it's not like we have enough people in prison now [usdoj.gov].

Our corporate run detention facilities will start losing money is we don't find new reasons to fill them up with relatively minor offenses.

Half of people in prison are there for violent offenses. That half stays. The other half we need to take a good hard look at just why we're so gung ho remove people from their ability to make a living and pay to warehouse them.

Re:Brilliant (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193673)

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/02/13/pennsylvania-judges-plead-guilty-in-juvenile-center-kickback-scheme/ [wsj.com]

"Once in a while, a story comes along that defies intellectual discussion or debate and just sort of slugs you right in the solar-plexus.

Such is the case with this story that broke yesterday out in Scranton, Pa., where two judges pleaded guilty to operating a kickback scheme involving juvenile offenders. The allegations: the judges, Mark Ciavarella Jr. and Michael Conahan, took more than $2.6 million in kickbacks to send teenagers to two privately run youth detention centers. "

Glad They Are Doing This . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193649)

. . . since it obviously means the Feds have solved all the big problems that plague the country. Woohoo!!!

At that price... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193711)

The album, which cost millions

No wonder people pirate music. I'd pay 20 bucks tops.

federal prosecutor, what? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193765)

I'm confused, why is a federal prosecutor involved at all, copyrights are a civil matter. I know there are some cases where its criminal but I thought that was more into the bootlegging category.

Filesharing never included commercial gains so had neatly side stepped the criminal aspects of the law. Or at least thats what I'd thought.

Not prison, that would be jail (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27193811)

If you are sentenced for under a year, you go to jail, not prison. The author apparently was mistaken.

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