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Strip-Search Case Tests Limits of 4th Amendment

kdawson posted more than 4 years ago | from the stand-and-deliver dept.

The Courts 1240

langelgjm writes "The US Supreme Court has agreed to review a case involving the strip-searching of a 13 year-old girl who was accused of possessing prescription-strength ibuprofen on school grounds, in violation of the school's zero-tolerance drug policy. The case has gained national attention because of the defining role it will play in determining which, if any, parts of the Constitution apply on school grounds. In Morse v. Frederick, the Supreme Court has already upheld the right of school administrators to restrict students' free speech at school-sponsored events that take place off school property. The school described the strip-search as 'not excessively intrusive in light of [the student's] age and sex and the nature of her suspected infraction.' The Supreme Court's last decision about searches on school property dealt only with searching a student's purse. Incidentally, the girl was found not to be in possession of any drugs, illegal or otherwise."

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Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Report (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320013)

Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Reports
s
- This just in, March 23 2009 Chinas central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund [ft.com]

- Russia too: It is necessary to work out and adopt internationally recognized standards for macroeconomic and budget policy, which are binding for the leading world economies, including the countries issuing reserve currencies - the Kremlin proposals read. [en.rian.ru]

- President Barak "The Teleprompter" Obama is deeply connected to corruption, Rahm Emanuel (Radical authoritarian Statist whose father was part of the Murderous Civilian Killing Israeli Terrorist Organization known as IRGUN), Connected to Rod Blagojevich (Rahm inherited Rod's federal-congress seat), Connected to Ayers, a man who promotes the concept that civilian collateral damage is ok in a war against freedom, Preacher Jeremiah Wright, who is himself a black-elitist who wants all the people who largely "pay the freight" to suffer, 31 million on food stamps, more blacks are in prison and on food-stamps per capita than anyone else. The problem with Wright is simply this: the facts are "racist."
- Obama: Racist, AIPAC-bootlicker, Corrupted to the bone Chicago style and a Traitor to the US Constitution and a Liar whose real "legal" name could very well be Barry Sotero and an Indonesian citizen (The US does not allow plural citizenship) (If you care, not that it matters anymore under a Lawless Authoritarian Totalitarian Regime, you can see more here at an aggregator; obamacrimes.info [obamacrimes.info] )
  - Raytheon lobbyist in Pentagon, lots lobbyists getting exemptions even though he promised not to have them.
- Goldman Sachs insider second in command at Treasury. Bumbling tax cheat idiot in "command" of Treasury with 17 positions unfilled as of late March 2009.
- Cabinet has had several nominees and appointees with multiple tax fraud issues.
- Lied about having a new degree of accountability and a SUNSHINE period of new laws, he has signed bills with little or no review at whitehouse.gov as promised.
- Appointed a second amendment violating Rich-pardoning treasonist Eric Holder as AG, the top cop of the USA, a man who helped a fugitive evade justice.
- Has not put a dime in for a single new nuclear power plant but wants to help bridges and roads to promote more driving.
- Obama, Blagojevich and Rahm Emanuel have a LOT to hide. They literally lived next to each other, Rahm had (until being Chairman Obama's Chief of staff) Blagojevich's old federal congressional seat. Blagojevich helped Chairman "The Teleprompter" Obama cheat his way to the Illinois senate by getting other candidates thrown off the ballot in Illinois. Why do you think Blagojevich was so mad? Obama DID owe him, big time. Rahm and Obama are using Blagojevich and trying to cut his head off to keep him away.
- Tony Rezko, Iraqi Arms Dealer Nahdmi Auchi, and of course Aiham Alsammarae. Chairman "The Teleprompter" Hussein Obama is so corrupted its a joke.
- Fools and "useful idiots" twist the pie charts by leaving welfare, workfare, interest on debt, social security, Medicare and Medicaid out and focusing only on non-whole "discretionary" pie charts.
2007 high level pie chart, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]
2009 Pie chart, detailed, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]
- Chairman Obama is drastically increasing spending and creating more entitlements that will make the US less competitive (especially against China, India, East Europe/Russia). This will be a huge disaster and change you can believe in will strap you and your grandkids with more debt. No taxation without representation? Obama is spending money for the next two-three generations and they can't even vote yet, or even have been born.
- An alternative to the dollar and a forex and a reserve currency came up at the last G20 meeting. The world will not take faith in Obama's liar-socialist spending and welfare state, why should the taxpayers (plebian citizen-slaves of a police state).
- The spending going on now vastly eclipses all previous spending. In fact, the massive trillion plus debts is a thing of the 80's onwards. Congress signs the checks, remember that Year after year, as egregious as the pentagon spending is, that the social spending is completely a waste of money and it is unfunded over the long term. Eisenhower built the interstates, the US could build a new power infrastructure with this money but instead is being pissed into creating more of an entitlement system that is STILL unfunded, and without massive poll-taxes and far more aggressive progressive taxes, could NEVER be funded.
- The budgeting being done today were recently reported by a non-partisan auditing commission will lead to about 10 TRILLION in new debt over the next 10 years. Obama is going to double the national debt while doing nothing to address the unfunded debt obligations of Social Security.
- Clinton appointed David Walker of the GAO, he quit, the unfunded debt obligations have rendered the USA insolvent according to accounting standards.
Taxpayers on the hook for $59 trillion [usatoday.com]
US Public Debt Unfunded Debt Obligations [wikipedia.org]
- Most of the world population gets NOTHING from their governments, or a very bare minimum or services that benefit only the upper echelons of society. However, the liar Chairman Obama says we need his universal "state-hospital" rationed health care to be competitive. Bull. China and India give nothing, and they are the biggest threat to the American worker. By forcing healthcare and higher taxes, Americans will be less competitive.
- If you think 60% tax rates end to end (income, accounts receivable tax, building permit tax, CDL tax, cigarette tax, corporate income tax, dog license tax, federal income tax, unemployment tax, gasoline tax, hunting license tax, fishing license tax, waterfowl stamp tax, inheritance tax, inventory tax, liquor tax, luxury tax, Medicare tax, city, school and county property tax (up 33 percent last 4 years), real estate tax, social security tax, road usage tax, toll road tax, state and city sales tax, recreational vehicle tax, excise tax, state franchise tax, state unemployment tax, telephone federal excise tax, telephone federal state and local surcharge tax, telephone minimum usage surcharge tax, telephone state and local tax, utility tax, vehicle license registration tax, capital gains tax, lease severance tax, oil and gas assessment tax, misc internet sales tax and many more taxes that I can't recall at the moment) will make the US competitive, along with compulsory programs to provide everyone with health care is going to make the US competitive in the age of India and China, you are a joke.
- As the US nationalizes (read: rations healthcare) to the least common denominator of affordability without regard to efficacy, people with money will simply look into medical tourism so those with money can go to medical parks in India and get real health care. Those who have lived in Canada or in the UK can tell you "free" healthcare is NOT a panacea. If you think this, you are again, a useful idiot. The NHS in the UK has given bad blood and Hepatitis and AIDS blood to people, and Jade Goody who just died was misdiagnosed twice resulting in her death (She was all cleared twice of cervical cancer which she just died of). The NHS in the UK is not able to be sued or held accountable. Neither will Chairman Obama's rationed health care service for America.
- Sorry to bust the socialist bubble-lie, but support of these types of policies will simply lower the standard of living in the USA, particularly for the middle class. At least at the end of the Eisenhower projects the USA got roads to show for the spending, and with this new spending, the USA could have built power plants that get the USA out of the middle east, but the age of government for the sake of government is upon us, and the useful idiots line up and believe empty promises.
The pentagon (and Bechtel, Kroll, Bluewater, Halliburton, etc) could get less than half of what they get today, but that will fix nothing fundamental in terms of government spending. It is simply not enough to make a difference when compared to the Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security entitlements.
See: YouTube - US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy [youtube.com]
- If Obama thinks its ok to lie to 300 million people about being able to "take care of them" without even being honest about what that care would look like, then being an idiot and believing in Obama is for you.
- The head of the IRS and the head of the Treasury, Geithner, is a Tax Cheat
- Lied about no lobbyists - their numbers are growing.
- The US Government already have over 50% of the budget on Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security. Socialists: Good job on that one, its working great. Solution to the current near-collapse-due-to-over-spending: add more unfunded entitlements!
- You Socialist-liars can break my spirit and my financial back to force me to "need" a federal government that is turning this country into a police state and turn it into a quasi-socialist lie, but I will, I must put up a fight. I have kids to educate and feed, and the stuff you sell (which is failing to various degrees everywhere else as implemented) is simply forcing a culture of failure on a once great, libertarian free country.
- I will not be complacent with your "change," and there will be a point where civil war will become an option. See how hard you can push before you get it. How much more than half can the truly productive workers in this country afford to pay. Keep pushing to find out how to start a civil war.
- The socialist-lie of a plan will not work, its not fundable, it WILL destroy the currency to fund it, and its really as simple as this: if this insanity is funded by borrowing from the US's economic and military adversaries then Obama and his socialist cabal is NOT fit to administrate society. Rome fell. Kings who mis-manged their treasuries all fell. Every example of unhinged spending leads to the same result: systemic collapse.
- Obama and his sycophantic lunatics would want to have a civil war to get Chairman Obama's way and force the socialist-lie system on my already tax paying law abiding ass. And as far as "no new taxes" for those under 250k, its a lie, the tax is called inflation, which is set to begin just about now that the Chinese wont want the USA's worthless treasuries to fund the socialist-lie fantasy (one that COMMUNIST China doesn't even try and sell to its people!)
- Chairman Obama's numbers don't add up. There is a $59 trillion dollar hole (UFDO) in social security alone. AIG $150 billion here, TARP $350 billion there. $800 billion for a highly dubious stimulus package. Another one on the way. $59 trillion hole in the balance sheet IGNORED. China saying they aren't going to buy treasuries, Clinton clamoring to find buyers now. $3.6 trillion dollar budget, potential military action on Mexico, Iran still a "terrorist state" at the behest of the AIPAC, spending up, dollar about to fall, inflation over time since Breton Woods extremely easy to document, yet, the socialist-liars question when the numbers (the Federal Government numbers) simply don't add up to the point where if the US-GOV was a company it would be insolvent.
  -How dare the taxpayers question what Chairman Obama's drastic spending increases are going to do to the purchasing power of our savings because Chairman Obama wants to recklessly spend and try to maintain and American empire AND guarantee a standard of living, and Chairman Obama doesn't even want to build a single nuclear power plant to do it? Chairman Obama must be a complete and total lunatic moron.
- Obama is either a negligent idiot or an unhinged maniac with delusional fantasies. Meanwhile, Chainman Obama's tax dodging Treasury Secretary has 17 unfilled positions, the Treasury Dept. isn't even functioning at this point.
- "General welfare" in the constitution was, according to the man who wrote it, Madison, meant to be extremely limited in scope. The federal government per the constitution doesn't even have the enumerated POWER to deal with economic messes. A lot of these "POWERS" were created while there is a crisis to dupe the public into accepting an un-constitutional authoritarian regime as the government and to usurp authority over the people.
- The USA is a constitutional republic. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting to eat a sheep. Also a constitutional republic isn't about using a barely-majority or a plurality to stuff your (un-fundable disastrous) crap down the disenfranchised other-half's throat.
- With Obama's authoritarian corrupted criminal (aiding and abetting a criminal in flight of prosecution, Rich case) Eric Holder in charge, we won't have our inalienable and enumerated rights to firearms much longer. For a constitutional law expert, Obama must have never read the federalist papers or he would simply hand himself as a traitor.
- The arbitrary expansion of "general welfare" is not only unconstitutional, it may very well lead to a serious conflict on the issue.
- Here is a debate on general welfare and how stuff like this came to pass, but was clearly no intended by the authors of the document of root law.
In Federalist No. 41, James Madison asked rhetorically: "For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power?" (In reference to the general welfare clause)
So strongly did the founders believe that "general welfare" wouldn't be expanded as written:
In Federalist No. 84, Alexander Hamilton indirectly confirmed Madison's point. (That the "general welfare" clause was "clearly" nota free pass for government)
Hamilton argued that a bill of rights, which many were clamoring for, would be not only unnecessary, but dangerous. Since the federal government was given only a few specific powers, there was no need to add prohibitions: it was implicitly prohibited by the listed powers. If a proposed law a relief act, for instance wasn't covered by any of these powers, it was unconstitutional.
"why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed?"
Hamilton goes on to argue that making Amendments (e.g., enumerating Free speech, press and assembly) and enumerating the 'right' would have the following effect:
(A bill of rights) "would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretence for claiming that power that is, a power to regulate the press, short of actually shutting it down. "
"With respect to the words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers (enumerated in the Constitution) connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison [The US Supreme Court has found the meaning of "general welfare" in the Constitution to be much more elastic than did Mr. Madison. But as the "author of the Constitution," what does he know?]
James Madison, when asked if the "general welfare" clause was a grant of power, replied in 1792, in a letter to Henry Lee,

If not only the means but the objects are unlimited, the parchment [the Constitution] should be thrown into the fire at once.

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government , and to provide new Guards for their future security. ...--The Declaration of Independence
- Wrong, monetizing failures causes more. Japan showed us this for decades. But hey, Chairman Obama thinks you can fix a problem DECADES in the making with a quick fixer-upper, he is screwed in the head.
- The complaints are with the Federal government (in general) since Breton Woods. The Federal Government and Obama's minions STILL didn't listen to David Walker, a Clinton appointee and former head of the GAO. This isn't about political parties anymore morons!
- Show me a single federal budget that was less than the previous. If this $3.6T budget goes, its never coming back barring systemic collapse.
- The United States Federal Government, The United States Federal Reserve, and the banks which were enabled to continue down reckless paths by a quasi government agency known as the Federal Reserve whose actions are not subject to congress and whose members are unelected. This situation is untenable and unconstitutional.
- Every inflationary road taken in history ends in collapse. Keynesian policies are widely regarded as no longer workable.
- Inflation is a tax: What ignorant tax and spenders don't take into account here is the relative percentages of people's wealth (both net and gross) and the costs of owning and maintaining houses, cars, standards of living.
- Inflation via deficit spending is going to make it such that you will be paying a lot more by percentage of your income to maintain a given standard of living. Obama's arguments are so poorly thought out and seek to blame "Republicans" for the mess, its really simply laughable - the needs cleanup now, not worsening.
- You can't spend your way out of a hole if the creditors (e.g. China) start telling the USA they won't buy. It is that simple. Now America starts to have to collateralize the debt with assets. The USA will be selling off chunks of American assets to back the new debt. One day, it may even be necessary to sell Alaska back to Russia because no one will take greenbacks to prop up a failing version of a modern Rome.
- Ah, here we go with the Matthew Lesko arguments. [lesko.com]
Interest rates were on the rise before the government stepped in with free money for everyone (the fine print of course indicate massive strings attached).
Other economies, for example, India, have the central rates set to far more reasonable/realistic rates (at the moment ~ 8+%), which is still tends to be too low, but shows that if you need someone else capital you need to pay a premium for it, and given that capital is in short supply, it would stand to reason that a premium must be charged for it.
The problem is the unrealistic growth rates of mature economies don't allow for profiting via growth projections (rather than simply earning money). So the government steps in, turns on the free money spigot, gets the interest rates for savings down in the 1-2% range while diluting the value of the whole currency in order to prop up dying companies that ran the business like a Madhoff Ponzi scheme.
- The Republicans aren't solely responsible for the crisis as Obama's minions would have you believe, congress is (no particular congress), the Executive of the US government (no particular one) and the US Federal Reserve System are all at fault.
- Fundamentally, the government is trying to fix the prices of various things to "make it all work." This pulling on the invisible hand is a fools venture. It was predicted long ago the housing collapse (and those, such as myself, in the know, wished while realizing the housing collapse coming that we were wrong for everyone's sake - but the truth is the truth) . It may be that the Austrian (von Mises) economists will ultimately be proven right.
- We are a nation of partially educated whiney grabby idiots, and we got the government that represents this. The Chinese, India and other up and coming nations will show no mercy for this arrogant abuse of our status as the world's forex reserves.
- War and asset sales will continue to be the only option for this scheme until it is corrected at the core. And to say that the government has already averted a depression by doing what they did (most of the monies injected wont be "felt" for some time), is just arrogance and stupidity. Price fixing prolonged the Great Depression. Price-fixing (or attempting to) houses will do the same, but probably worse.
- Obama's minions simply don't care if the US is bankrupted and rendered insolvent, they just want a say in how its done, presumably to "feel safe." Rather selfish.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." AND "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (Possibly Richard Jackson)

- Everyone better realize that inflation will pay a major role in funding un-fundable fantasies, wiping the savers and the middle class out. The problem is, that other countries are growing tired of making our Federal Reserve notes worth something by buying our debt as treasuries. Obama's minions talk about spending, but in order to "get what YOU want" you will sell debt to potential economic and military adversaries? Real bright. What's really sad is that despite David Walker being an authority on these issues, people refuse to even watch him and listen to what he is saying.
- On the success of Canada and its form of Socialism: A huge country like Canada with massive amounts of uranium and tar sands and natural resources and a huge land mass with a scant 30 million people is an order of magnitude less of a problem to manage than a country with 10x its population, a serious leaky southern border, backfiring aggressive foreign policy, particularly with Iran, and the US is competing with countries like India and China whose middle classes are larger than the US's entire population. The top 5 students in every Indian and Chinese primary school out numbers all the kids in primary school in the US. Canada is a idyllic island, the USA is front and center in an all out economic and political clash of ideologies.
- Cap and trade (and pollution control for solving global problems) will never work unless the top 10 countries in the world (in terms of both GDP and manufacturing capacity and population) are on board. Period end. If the world doesn't quickly move to nuclear now and fusion shortly, it is OVER possibly not if every home on the planet gets a wind vane, but that seems unlikely to happen (since its possible now).
- Keynes calls it "the paradox of thrift" and suggested that policies forcing people not to save is a "good idea." The guy wanted people spending all the time, or if he didn't, he never conveyed that to his protégés well enough for them to not do what they are doing. Right now the plebeians in the US are actually stashing cash, and everyone from Obama to the media is trying to get people to spend spend spend. The best thing for the long term is for people to prepare for the coming hell, not set out with no reserves.
- I have seen Keynes invoked to justify nearly every bad move in the past decade, and its warming up to be a potential currency collapse, the collapse of the US Treasury and Federal Reserve notes, and a collapse of the NYSE. And then they invoke Keynes to suggest the best way out of the mess is to spend out of an already near-critically debt massed black hole.
- A house is run like a town is run like a country or business is run like a state is run like a government. If there are things the government is doing that would either force your home into bankruptcy or into jail via fraud charges, then the government and banks shouldn't be operating in that fashion. A certain degree of stretchy liquidity is in order, but in terms of percent of GDP, there is no way of justifying what they US has now.
- Iceland failed at 850 percent debt to GDP. The US is at 350 and rising. It is not a good thing at all.
- What is happening to the dollar as a forex standard. [youtube.com]
- March 19, 2009 C-SPAN - "Let's Quit Destroying Our Dollar!" [youtube.com]
- HR 1207 (A bill to make the Fed more accountable and to answer questions regarding the dollar policy) [loc.gov]

Title: Obama sidetracked by fiscal mess, but presses on [yahoo.com]
"Being heard above the din may prove difficult. Lawmakers are wrangling over taxing people who got big bonuses and worrying the president's budget could generate $9.3 trillion in red ink over the next decade."
- Kremlin to pitch new global currency [infowars.com]
Russia proposes creation of global super-reserve currency

Holy crap, even the Russians and Chinese get it. Strange days are here.

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320061)

This clown is going to end this former constitutional republic. I hate this man (and the man before him) for ushering in a dystopian anti-dream of hell on earth. I hope everyone Obama cares about dies of cancer slowly but him.

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320083)

This man is a traitor and should be sacked for treason. There are countless things his government has already done tht exceed the limitations of POWER in the US constitution. He is so bad, that not even "ICC" or "General Welfare" clauses can be used to justify this monster's actions. Its horrible.

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320141)

Whoever marked this offtopic on a YOUR RIGHTS article is a fucking moron, a traitor and censoorship. If I ever command authority to clean up those who prevent the civil rights of others, I would have whoever just comitted treason against free speech incarcerated for treason and sedition. Squelching the TRUTH and squelching FREE SPEECH is an active attempt to deny others civil rights. Obama is an evil, gun grabbing HYPER spending dollar ending TRAITOR and should be imprisoned immediatly. Bush should be in the same cell with him.

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320187)

Obama is basically Tom Zarek who never made it to jail. Obama will rule just like Tom Zarek did in BSG-Reimagined.

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320247)

The banking kingpins are lower forms of life than drug kingpins. The Federal Reserve System is controlled by the very same banks that it is supposed to be regulated. Obama is a little tools for the Fedral Reserve. The US hasn't had a real President since Eisenhower and JFK. Everything since has been a sham.

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320309)

If you party like Rome, you fall like Rome. The American Empire is ending from really terrible and insane emperors. Ron Paul was right. And you don't have to be a Kreskin to see what Ron Paul said and all of which has come true. You just have to be slightly educated. I guess that means America is getting a representitive government. Partially educated dangerous enabled self-important fucking moron politicians are representing a large body of partially educated dangerous enabled self-important fucking morons.

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320395)

Obama is totally inept, incompetent and scary. This republic will possibly fracture under these stresses. Its awful. We are all waiting to lose our jobs and the Chinese and India-Indians are coming to take our jobs and standard of living!

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320479)

I just want the government to leave me alone. I feel like the police watch me. I pay all my taxes, I've never been violent, I try to be good, I help others, and I feel the lasers eyes. I feel like I'm being hunted. I feel watched. I feel like the government is coming for me. I think of this song:

AJohnnys in America, low-techs at the; Wheel; No-one needs anyone, they don't even; Just pretend; Johnnys in America

I'm afraid of Americans; I'm afraid of the world; I'm afraid I can't help it; I'm afraid I cant; Johnnys in America

Johnny wants a brain, Johnny wants to; Suck on a coke; Johnny wants a woman, Johnny wants; To think of a joke; Johnnys in America

I'm afraid of Americans; I'm afraid of the world; I'm afraid I can't help it; I'm afraid I cant; Johnnys in America;

Johnnys in America, Johnny looks up at; The stars; Johnny combs his hair and Johnny; Wants pussy and cars; Johnnys in America

I'm afraid of Americans; I'm afraid of the world; I'm afraid I cant help it; I'm afraid I cant; Johnnys in America;

God is an American; I'm afraid of Americans; I'm afraid of the world;

I'm afraid I cant help it;
I'm afraid I cant
I'm afraid of Americans; I'm afraid of the words; I'm afraid I cant help it; I'm afraid I cant;
Johnnys in America
Johnnys in America

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320519)

The deficit has jumped to 12% of GDP. If BHO succeeds in cutting the deficit in half (unlikely), that would put it at 6% of GDP. Anything higher than 3% mathematically guaranties the country will be bankrupt.

Keep in mind that 40% of the GDP is actually government spending. That puts the true deficit at around 20% of GDP. The government now spends more money than the rest of the economy -- walmart, IBM, Microsoft, Exxon, etc -- combined. And that number is not going to decrease.

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320553)

Yeah no shit but that's everyone. Everyone thinks socialism will work and the government should do everything for them. Who else are you gonna elect that won't lie, cheat, steal, and implement socialism?

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320605)

This is like living in Orwell's book now, perpetual war, propaganda, double-speak, new-speak, a police state, torture, war, a false economy, false monies.

There must be some kind of way out of here; Said the joker to the thief; Theres too much confusion; I cant get no relief; Businessman they drink my wine; Plow men dig my earth; None will level on the line; Nobody of it is worth

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320625)

Fucking forced logins..... here's the whole article:

March 24, 2009
Strip-Search of Girl Tests Limit of School Policy
By ADAM LIPTAK

SAFFORD, Ariz. - Savana Redding still remembers the clothes she had on - black stretch pants with butterfly patches and a pink T-shirt - the day school officials here forced her to strip six years ago. She was 13 and in eighth grade.

An assistant principal, enforcing the school's antidrug policies, suspected her of having brought prescription-strength ibuprofen pills to school. One of the pills is as strong as two Advils.

The search by two female school employees was methodical and humiliating, Ms. Redding said. After she had stripped to her underwear, "they asked me to pull out my bra and move it from side to side," she said. "They made me open my legs and pull out my underwear."

Ms. Redding, an honors student, had no pills. But she had a furious mother and a lawyer, and now her case has reached the Supreme Court, which will hear arguments on April 21.

The case will require the justices to consider the thorny question of just how much leeway school officials should have in policing zero-tolerance policies for drugs and violence, and the court is likely to provide important guidance to schools around the nation.

In Ms. Redding's case, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, in San Francisco, ruled that school officials had violated the Fourth Amendment's ban on unreasonable searches. Writing for the majority, Judge Kim McLane Wardlaw said, "It does not require a constitutional scholar to conclude that a nude search of a 13-year-old child is an invasion of constitutional rights."

"More than that," Judge Wardlaw added, "it is a violation of any known principle of human dignity."

Judge Michael Daly Hawkins, dissenting, said the case was in some ways "a close call," given the "humiliation and degradation" involved. But, Judge Hawkins concluded, "I do not think it was unreasonable for school officials, acting in good faith, to conduct the search in an effort to obviate a potential threat to the health and safety of their students."

Richard Arum, who teaches sociology and education at New York University, said he would have handled the incident differently. But Professor Arum said the Supreme Court should proceed cautiously.

"Do we really want to encourage cases," Professor Arum asked, "where students and parents are seeking monetary damages against educators in such school-specific matters where reasonable people can disagree about what is appropriate under the circumstances?"

The Supreme Court's last major decision on school searches based on individual suspicion - as opposed to systematic drug testing programs - was in 1985, when it allowed school officials to search a student's purse without a warrant or probable cause as long their suspicions were reasonable. It did not address intimate searches.

In a friend-of-the-court brief in Ms. Redding's case, the federal government said the search of her was unreasonable because officials had no reason to believe she was "carrying the pills inside her undergarments, attached to her nude body, or anywhere else that a strip search would reveal."

The government added, though, that the scope of the 1985 case was not well established at the time of the 2003 search, so the assistant principal should not be subject to a lawsuit.

Sitting in her aunt's house in this bedraggled mining town a two-hour drive northeast of Tucson, Ms. Redding, now 19, described the middle-school cliques and jealousies that she said had led to the search. "There are preppy kids, gothic kids, nerdy types," she said. "I was in between nerdy and preppy."

One of her friends since early childhood had moved in another direction. "She started acting weird and wearing black," Ms. Redding said. "She started being embarrassed by me because I was nerdy."

When the friend was found with ibuprofen pills, she blamed Ms. Redding, according to court papers.

Kerry Wilson, the assistant principal, ordered the two school employees to search both students. The searches turned up no more pills.

Mr. Wilson declined a request for an interview and referred a reporter to the superintendent of schools, Mark R. Tregaskes. Mr. Tregaskes did not respond to a message left with his assistant.

Lawyers for the school district said in a brief that it was "on the front lines of a decades-long struggle against drug abuse among students." Abuse of prescription and over-the-counter medications is on the rise among 12- and 13-year-olds, the brief said, citing data from the Office of National Drug Control Policy.

Given that, the school district said, the search was "not excessively intrusive in light of Redding's age and sex and the nature of her suspected infraction."

Adam B. Wolf, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union, which represents Ms. Redding, said her experience was "the worst nightmare for any parent."

"When you send your child off to school every day, you expect them to be in math class or in the choir," Mr. Wolf said. "You never imagine their being forced to strip naked and expose their genitalia and breasts to their school officials."

In a sworn statement submitted in the case, Safford Unified School District v. Redding, No. 08-479, Mr. Wilson said he had good reason to suspect Ms. Redding. She and other students had been unusually rowdy at a school dance a couple of months before, and members of the school staff thought they had smelled alcohol. A student also accused Ms. Redding of having served alcohol at a party before the dance, Mr. Wilson said.

Ms. Redding said she had served only soda at the party, adding that her accuser was not there. At the dance, she said, school administrators had confused adolescent rambunctiousness with inebriation. "We're kids," she said. "We're goofy."

The search was conducted by Peggy Schwallier, the school nurse, and Helen Romero, a secretary. Ms. Redding "never appeared apprehensive or embarrassed," Ms. Schwallier said in a sworn statement. Ms. Redding said she had kept her head down so the women could not see that she was about to cry.

Ms. Redding said she was never asked if she had pills with her before she was searched. Mr. Wolf, her lawyer, said that was unsurprising.

"They strip-search first and ask questions later," Mr. Wolf said of school officials here.

Ms. Redding did not return to school for months after the search, studying at home. "I never wanted to see the secretary or the nurse ever again," she said.

In the end, she transferred to another school. The experience left her wary, nervous and distrustful, she said, and she developed stomach ulcers. She is now studying psychology at Eastern Arizona College and hopes to become a counselor.

Ms. Redding said school officials should have taken her background into account before searching her.

"They didn't even look at my records," she said. "They didn't even know I was a good kid."

The school district does not contest that Ms. Redding had no disciplinary record, but says that is irrelevant.

"Her assertion should not be misread to infer that she never broke school rules," the district said of Ms. Redding in a brief, "only that she was never caught."

Ms. Redding grew emotional as she reflected on what she would have done if she had been told as an adult to strip-search a student. Dabbing her eyes with a tissue, she said she would have refused.

"Why would I want to do that to a little girl and ruin her life like that?" Ms. Redding asked.

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt the US Tsarkon Rep (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320635)

What a shame that I only had 4 mod points for you and your replies.

Been following this for awhile. (4, Interesting)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320051)

I'm really hoping to see a large bitch-slap style ruling against the school district. This whole thing is just shameful.

Re:Been following this for awhile. (5, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320319)

The perps should be on the sex offenders' registry for the rest of their lives.

-jcr

Re:Been following this for awhile. (5, Insightful)

Sylver Dragon (445237) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320363)

Amen.

I'm glad that the Ninth Circuit had the insight to say that this was wrong, I only hope that the Supreme Court is picking this up so that they can more firmly put this in the "Not Allowed" category. Schools need to understand that these are not their children and that for anything more intrusive than a locker search the parents should be involved.

Re:Been following this for awhile. (5, Insightful)

ZenDragon (1205104) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320367)

Agreed. Though technically(and legally) student is in the care of the school while at school, it is important to understand the distiction between this and something like a prison. Just because the student was 13 doesnt mean she doesnt have constitutional rights. I think it would be reasonable to argue a 4th ammendment violiation in this case. Posession of an over the counter medication is NOT by any means probably cause for a strip search. I mean, come on people use some common sense. Now if she was accused of having a kilo of cocaine, and there was sufficient evidence to support that claim, then call the freakin police and have her arrested. By no means whatsoever should she be strip searched on the premises, especially not by school administration.

Re:Been following this for awhile. (5, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320423)

I think it would be reasonable to argue a 4th ammendment violiation in this case.

It's not just an illegal search, it's a goddamned felony. If these assholes go free while someone like Charlie Lynch goes to jail, then the law in the USA is a complete joke.

-jcr

Re:Been following this for awhile. (5, Insightful)

Martin Blank (154261) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320487)

The accusation was that she had prescription-strength ibuprofen, which is not OTC medication.

But I agree that the police should have been involved for any form of invasive search. There also shouldn't have been a zero-tolerance policy to begin with, as the enforcement of these often removes the gray area of judgment of when to enforce a policy and moves the gray area into how to enforce the policy, often erring on the side of draconian.

Re:Been following this for awhile. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320571)

One "persciption strength" Ibuprofin = Two "non-perscription strength" Ibuprofin. So if I walk onto that campus with two over-the-counter Ibuprofin, they can strip search me because I had enough Ibuprofin to warrent perscription strength. Get it through your heads already, this is simply abuse of power to see the little girl naked. End of discussion.

Re:Been following this for awhile. (4, Insightful)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320623)

Posession of an over the counter medication is NOT by any means probably cause for a strip search.

She did not have any drugs in her posession. All the school officials had as reason was the accusation of another girl who had been caught and was trying to shift blame.

But their attitude was clearly "guilty until proven innocent":

The school district does not contest that Ms. Redding had no disciplinary record, but says that is irrelevant.

"Her assertion should not be misread to infer that she never broke school rules," the district said of Ms. Redding in a brief, "only that she was never caught."

Re:Been following this for awhile. (2, Insightful)

arctan1701 (635900) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320643)

Though technically(and legally) student is in the care of the school while at school

what would happen to a parent that strip searched his/her child even if the parent was the same sex as the child?

Zero! (2, Insightful)

fm6 (162816) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320499)

Not to defend the school district (total assholes), but they're not the problem The problem is the "zero tolerance" mentality. It says that there are no gray areas, no innocent people who are only technically breaking the rules.

In this case, "zero tolerance" means that the mere suspicion the student was hiding prescription strength ibuprofen (I guess OTC ibuprofen is OK!) is enough to justify the total humiliation of a student.

And the school district bozos are only following society in general. Lately, we've been sneering at Dubya for saying "I don't do nuance." But he's only following a path we've been running down for a couple of decades now. Zero Tolerance for Drugs! Zero Tolerance for Terrorism! Zero tolerance for Opponents of the Permanent Majority!

That last one has finally convinced most people that we've gone too far. (Though Rush Limbaugh doesn't seem to have gotten the memo.) None too soon, either.

Re:Been following this for awhile. (5, Insightful)

Matheus (586080) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320533)

Agreed. I grew up with Migraines. Pre- the wonderful better drugs we have now I needed to take massive amounts of Ibuprofen to keep them in check and hell-yeah I had it with me at all times including at school. "Prescription Strength" means 800mg = 4 over the counter pills = 1/2 what I needed to bring down a bad migraine.

Their mention of the "not excessively intrusive in light of [the student's] age and sex and the nature of her suspected infraction" what.. she's a girl so we can strip search her? She's 13 so we can strip search her? She might, heaven-forbid, have *Advil* so we can strip search her?!?

Let them burn.

Re:Been following this for awhile. (4, Insightful)

ztransform (929641) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320591)

"role it will play in determining which, if any, parts of the Constitution apply on school grounds"

I love how America has so many laws and yet regardless of how many patriotic movies it creates it still believes the constitution has limited application.

Sorry for the second reply; an anecdote. (2, Interesting)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320073)

This case reminds me of the time a good friend's daughter got suspended from high school for a week. She had a chain on her wallet, which was deemed a weapon. They were actually trying to expel her for a violation of their "zero tolerance" policies, but failed. Unbelievable.

Re:Sorry for the second reply; an anecdote. (3, Interesting)

Citizen of Earth (569446) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320251)

She had a chain on her wallet, which was deemed a weapon.

A pen is a much more dangerous weapon than that. Strangely, you're also allowed to bring them on airplanes.

Re:Sorry for the second reply; an anecdote. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320399)

The pen is mightier than the sword. And the chain.

Now now... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320647)

Nobody is accusing her of being in possession of a Penis Mightier!

Re:Sorry for the second reply; an anecdote. (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320483)

you may not realize it, but you have been tested.

the fact that you LET your school board get away with this might mean that, well, you deserve each other!

I'm half serious.

which area of the country was this in? I'd like to avoid that area if I can - sounds like ignorance is abundant there.

it boggles the mind that a parent can ACCEPT 'she had a chain!' as a reason for dismissal. do the parents HAVE ANY BALLS or not?

I'm starting to wonder - maybe the US is filled with uncaring unaware in-your-own-world parents. the fact that they let schools get to a 'zero tol' policy might mean THEY have failed.

epic fail, as kids say ;)

Tip of the ice berg. (1)

captnbmoore (911895) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320075)

As soon a s the SC gives the schools the go ahead to humiliate these kids you will start seeing kindergartners being treated this way. Take your kids out and home school while you still have the option.

Re:Tip of the ice berg. (2, Insightful)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320145)

Home schooling fucks up your social skills. We need good public schools.

Re:Tip of the ice berg. (5, Insightful)

unlametheweak (1102159) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320325)

Home schooling fucks up your social skills. We need good public schools.

No. Socializing children fucks up their social skills. Have you ever been a child before? You should remember what it was like. Children are not good at teaching each other morals or good social skills. What they do learn from each other is Human Nature, which isn't a very good thing to learn if you are being taught by human children. Go to a football game in England to see what socialization does.

Re:Tip of the ice berg. (0, Troll)

evolx10 (679412) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320335)

Good public schools are unable to exist in this overly whiny democratic cesspool. And homeschooling relies on the abilities of the parent.

Re:Tip of the ice berg. (1)

festers (106163) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320535)

Home schooling fucks up your social skills

Are you a product of the public school system? If so, the irony of your statement is very amusing.

Looking back at my high school years, between the bullying, peer pressure, and artificial environment, I'd say the system contributed to a distinct LACK of social skills.

Re:Tip of the ice berg. (2, Insightful)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320477)

They don't need to give the go-ahead, even the long-dead zerotolerance.net has far too many stories like this archived and I personally was told to "get over it" and to stop antagonizing other students when someone tried to rape me in the locker room. Sadly that isn't exactly a unique occurence [archive.org] .

Until these people start getting held accountable for their actions, truly held accountable with full criminal system consequences, they're just going to keep on plowing ahead full speed.

From TFA: "Her assertion should not be misread to infer that she never broke school rules," the district said of Ms. Redding in a brief, "only that she was never caught."

^^^ They forced a 13 year old girl to strip to her underwear and then expose herself to them with nothing but their own suspicions and the word of a few random people to back them up and now claim that they were perfectly justified in doing so and that on top of that a spotless record means she's just as guilty as if they HAD caught her doing anything, just that they don't have anything on paper.

Everyone involved in making this decision, allowing it to go ahead, and participating in the search should be arrested and tried for as many sex crimes as they can fit into the trial. This is rape, there's no excusing or justifying it.

And people wonder why kids have such a hatred for authority figures and absolute lack of trust in them.

Huh? Duh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320105)

The case has gained national attention because of the defining role it will play in determining which, if any, parts of the Constitution apply on school grounds.

Huh? The U.S. Constitution applies on public school grounds, because the school is part of the state, and the teachers and staff are agents of the state. In particular, the courts have applied the First Amendment via the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment for some time now.

Jesus H. Christ's squeezable bacon! (5, Insightful)

NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320133)

Is a teenager having a fucking ibuprofen such a monstrous and immediate security threat that we need to strip search her? Or was somebody just a little too eager to strip search a 13 year old? Hmm?

I wonder if the court would have upheld the 13-year old's right to strenously kick school officials in the balls for forcibly removing her clothing?

It seems to me that, since she *wasn't* found to be in possession of any drugs at all, she's in a good position to make somebody's life really, really uncomfortable for a while.

Re:Jesus H. Christ's squeezable bacon! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320233)

Additionally, last time I checked, humans of the female variety of roughly the aforementioned age bleed from their female orifice every once in a while. This can apparently cause some discomfort in the general area. Discomfort, which can allegedly be remedied by taking certain drugs.

Of course, all this is based purely on hear-say. I've never been near a girl, let alone a bleeding one.

Re:Jesus H. Christ's squeezable bacon! (2, Funny)

cellurl (906920) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320283)

I just realized how important pictures are to a story.

Look at your response to this. Assumptive, possibly accurate, but probably not.
But what if you could see some pictures of the scene, you might change your mind.

I taught one year. Teachers are good people. Go outside and play!

Re:Jesus H. Christ's squeezable bacon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320295)

Follow this kid for 20yrs... I'm sure being stripped and searched at 13yrs is only going to have good social effects on a child. Guarantee this child drops out of school or has some problems in later life. Good job, the girl probably has migraines and all you did was give her another headache.

Re:Jesus H. Christ's squeezable bacon! (3, Interesting)

V50 (248015) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320463)

Yeah, back when I was in high school, I (and others) often had advil or tylenol, for when we got headaches or whatever. I'm unaware of any recreational use for OTC headache drugs, so frankly, I'd be a little concerned over whoever ordered a strip search of a 13 year old girl, and his _real_ motives.

Hell, the "prescription strength" ibuprofen has the strength of 2 advils. Even had she had some, she, uh, takes 1 strong pill instead of 2 weak ones when she has a headache.

This whole case says more about who ordered the search than anything else.

Re:Jesus H. Christ's squeezable bacon! (0)

jcr (53032) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320471)

I wonder if the court would have upheld the 13-year old's right to strenously kick school officials in the balls for forcibly removing her clothing?

I know that if her parents had beaten the perps to death, and I were on their jury, I'd vote to acquit them.

-jcr

Re:Jesus H. Christ's squeezable bacon! (1)

philbert2.71828 (781399) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320473)

From the article, it sounded like the girl was asked to remove her own clothing, while two female teachers looked for the drugs. In any case, strip searching a kid over ibuprofen is inexcusable. If they suspected her of carrying something else like meth, they should have just called the police and taken her to the principle's office and kept an eye on her in the meantime. But ibuprofen? If it's violating school policy, tell her so and maybe give her detention, but other than that, just let her go.

Re:Jesus H. Christ's squeezable bacon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320581)

Is a teenager having a fucking ibuprofen such a monstrous and immediate security threat that we need to strip search her?

The problem is the school's zero-tolerance drug policy.

Once a student is suspected of having a drug in his or her possession; be it cocaine, heroin, ibuprofen or aspirin, the procedure is the same... strip-search. Commonsense need not apply.

Not surprised (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320149)

This is the kind of thing that happens when positions that come with real power over others (school administrators, police, etc) don't pay well enough to attract competent people.

Re:Not surprised (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320401)

no, its not that. that can't be helped.

what is surprising to me is that we, as humans, KNOW we can't trust each other with power. power corrupts and all that.

so why is there no one 'checking the checkers' ?

unchecked power is a license to abuse it. its a given. nothing surprising here.

politicians have very little oversight so they do as they please! baggage checkers at airports have NO oversight and so they steal as they please.

and adults in charge of kids, with 'unquestioned authority' WILL abuse their power.

what I wonder is - do any of those parents have BALLS? did they just drop off or what? (sorry for the batman quote).

I would not have my kids attend a 'zero tolerance' school. no way! why do people put up with this insanity?

Re:Not surprised (1)

HiThere (15173) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320469)

Paying well is no insurance against *this* kind of garbage. People who do this need to be vulnerable to impressive penalties when they so unreasonably exceed reasonable bounds. And slightly less when they are less unreasonable.

For this I'm not quite sure what would be appropriate. Firing without recommendation or severance pay, definitely. Probably also massive fines. I'm not sure about jail time.

Also "prescription strength ibuprofen"!!! Incredible! The supervisors of whoever ordered this should also be fired immediately. And probably their supervisors, too.

Think of the naked 13 year old (3, Insightful)

unlametheweak (1102159) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320169)

In Canada, as an adult, these things are completely illegal. I could presume these arbitrary strip searches would be illegal for adults in the USA as well. But when it comes to think-of-the-children conservativism, then hypocrisy is more important than reality. It's not just the fight against drugs and sex for these conservatives, it's a fight against freedom, and it is a fight for an authoritarian society. And don't let the people that are most likely to deny this convince you otherwise. They do get found out every once in a while, and sometimes they even go to jail. In the mean time we shouldn't be letting these people hurt children.

Re:Think of the naked 13 year old (5, Funny)

MiKM (752717) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320259)

Think of the naked 13 year old

Nice try, FBI. I'm not falling for that one again.

Re:Think of the naked 13 year old (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320297)

lol.

Re:Think of the naked 13 year old (1)

jcr (53032) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320365)

In Canada, as an adult, these things are completely illegal.

They're illegal here, too. The question at hand is whether the court is going to let the perps get away with molesting a child just because they were state employees.

-jcr

Re:Think of the naked 13 year old (1, Insightful)

unlametheweak (1102159) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320393)

I can see that the Troll Moderators are at it again with the down-mods on my post. If you don't like what I have to say then don't read it. Moderating reality downward won't get rid of it. And BTW I'm not going anywhere, even if I have to post at -1, that just means I'll will be motivated to post more. As is always the case, if you Moderation Trolls down mod this post, then I will keep on posting until you loose your Moderation points.

Rules for the sake of rules (5, Insightful)

Alcimedes (398213) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320171)

Don't forget, it wasn't just that it was prescription strength OTC medication (she could have taken a handful of "regular" pills for the same effect)

The entire thing was based on the accusations of another student. No one actually saw her with any pills of any kind. A strip search for what amounts to over the counter medication based on the accusations of another student.

If a student had accused the vice principal of the same thing, would they be expected to submit to a strip search?

Zero tolerance policies are the same as "I just don't want to make hard decisions" so instead you make f'ing stupid ones.

Re:Rules for the sake of rules (2)

aaandre (526056) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320615)

Ditto. Policies replace intelligence with bureaucracy. Life is custom and doesn't fit on a form.

Adults still think of children as a cross between a human, puppy and a demon from hell. Oh, and property, not citizens.

It is legal in the U.S. to hit (assault/abuse/spank) a child and not legal to assault an adult.

So there.

Female strip searches are less intrusive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320185)

> 'not excessively intrusive in light of [the student's] age and sex and the nature of her suspected infraction.'

What does her sex have to do with it? Would it have been more or less intrusive to strip search a boy?

Re:Female strip searches are less intrusive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320419)

In America, or any western society? Yes, indeed.
 
It's impossible to be prejudiced against or offensive to whites, males, or any combination of the two these days.

Ibuprofen is a drug? (2, Funny)

goldcd (587052) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320189)

Well I mean you might get off tripping on the reduction to a swelling, or maybe you want to OD and give yourself indigestion..

What the hell (1)

MiKM (752717) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320201)

What the hell was going through these peoples' minds when they deemed a strip-search was necessary to determine if the student had ibuprofen? Did nobody involve think "hey, now, this isn't this somewhat excessive"? She said she didn't have the ibuprofen - since ibuprofen isn't really a threat to the safety of anybody (unless she deliberately overdoses), why are they searching her possessions solely based on the accusation of another student They're treating this as a Fourth Amendment issue, which it is. However, strip-searching a student is wrong and should be considered illegal, regardless of the Fourth Amendment. Doing it because you think she has ibuprofen is just ludicrous.

Re:What the hell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320549)

where else would the school administration get naked 13 yo girly pics ?

GPS != Inertial Compass (0, Offtopic)

PrimalChrome (186162) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320209)

Wouldn't Inertial compass or pole sensitivity be more accurate?

Re:GPS != Inertial Compass (1)

Huntr (951770) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320301)

Maybe you should have used one of those to find the right thread to reply to. :p

Re:GPS != Inertial Compass (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320311)

wrong thread.

the monkey you want isn't working at a school.

ok, that's not exactly true, now, is it. maybe you DID intend to post in this thread.

The Plan: Get Kids Used to it in school... (4, Interesting)

Faizdog (243703) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320223)

... so that when they're older, they'll accept this and even more serious breaches of privacy from the government. Because it's to protect the children!

Re:The Plan: Get Kids Used to it in school... (1)

jc42 (318812) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320377)

Because it's to protect the children!

Of course. But now it's time to paraphrase the old follow-on question: Who will protect our children from their protectors?

Piece meal application of the Constitution? (2, Interesting)

Jerry (6400) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320225)

That doesn't make sense.

Do school officials get to cherry pick which parts of the Constitution they can violate?

They get to violate a student's free exercise of religion on the grounds that one cannot distinguish between congress making laws and school officials "permitting" references to Christian dieties.

A 13 year old girl taking analgesics to school for menstrual pain is a catagory of crime identical to a drug pusher vending dope and requires "zero tolerance"? Only to those who refuse to think or use common sense, so are brain dead. The more this PC crap takes hold the more it is indistinguishable from Fascism.

Re:Piece meal application of the Constitution? (1)

jc42 (318812) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320437)

Do school officials get to cherry pick which parts of the Constitution they can violate?

Of course. And they pick the cherries (;-) that allow them to strip-search the kids of their choice.

sexual assault (5, Insightful)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320227)

A "strip-search" performed by anyone other than a police officer acting with probable cause is a sexual assault.

People, including teens and children, have the right to defend themselves by any means necessary against such an attack, and should be trained to do so.

After some pervert principal gets his testicles crushed and his eyes gouged by a student he's trying to attack, perhaps we might see an end to this bullshit.

Re:sexual assault (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320407)

Wow, when I was a kid I got told to leave school immediately and come home if a teacher tried to take my clothes.. this actually happened a few times, as I went to a school that required uniforms and I never wore the uniform.

Re:sexual assault (2, Insightful)

Knave75 (894961) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320537)

After some pervert principal gets his testicles crushed and his eyes gouged by a student he's trying to attack, perhaps we might see an end to this bullshit.

While there are many comments referring to a good righteous assaulting of the genitalia of the evil male authorities involved, keep in mind that the actual search was carried out by the female school nurse and a female secretary.

This is no way condones the action, but I don't think that this case involved some guys getting their child pr0n fix.

Also, there seems to be a large jump here

1) You may have stronger-than-normal advil
2)....
3) Strip Search!

Something happened in step 2 that we are not aware of, I can't imagine a jump from step 1 straight to step 3.

Prescription strength ibuprofen (1)

Reality Master 201 (578873) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320229)

This is a joke, right?

Right? Please?

Re:Prescription strength ibuprofen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320277)

I checked too, it's not April 1st yet :(

Re:Prescription strength ibuprofen (1)

Reality Master 201 (578873) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320453)

Leaving aside completely the appropriateness of conducting a strip search of a 13-year old in school - by people who aren't law enforcement personnel - because she's suspected of having drugs on her, WHAT THE FUCK?

School officials actually ordered the search for suspicion that the girl was in possession of a drug that is like two over the counter Advil in one.

Every single school employee involved should be fired from their jobs, then forever forced to earn their living by begging on the street for money while people kick them as they walk by.

The U.S. Consititution... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320255)

"The case has gained national attention because of the defining role it will play in determining which, if any, parts of the Constitution apply on school grounds."

I think its time we have the constitution printed on the bathroom tissues in that school..

Not excessive? (5, Insightful)

noidentity (188756) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320265)

The school described the strip-search as 'not excessively intrusive in light of [the student's] age and sex and the nature of her suspected infraction.'

So what could excessively intrusive have been in this case? Surgically cutting her open and checking all internal organs?

Re:Not excessive? (2, Insightful)

ZenDragon (1205104) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320465)

What gets me with that comment is the "in light of her age" part. Strip searching a 13 year old is not excessive??? WTF?? Strip searching an adult is not excessive, strip searching a 13 year old is just short child molestation in my opinion.

Re:Not excessive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320595)

Er wait, nevermind, I got the terms confused. Bleah.

4th amendment? (1)

logjon (1411219) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320287)

We might as well just go ahead and do away with it now, so people will stop thinking it still applies or protects them in some way. All it does is cause confusion among those who have the audacity to believe that the bill of rights still matters.

Re:4th amendment? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320601)

"So this is how liberty dies... with a +5 Insightful."

546 bullets... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320333)

We just need 546, and we could really finally make a statement that needs to be said.

435 representatives
100 congressmen
    9 supreme court justices
    1 vice president
    1 president

There's a reason they don't want us armed, you know.

wow, that's pretty fucked up (4, Insightful)

Trepidity (597) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320343)

Maybe our legislators who are always so worried about sexual exploitation of children as an excuse to censor the internet and everything else, might want to look into whether prohibiting the government from forcibly stripping children naked shouldn't be a higher priority.

Don't be too hard on the school .... (0)

Wrath0fb0b (302444) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320441)

Before you condemn the living shit out of the school district, try to remember that they have an affirmative responsibility to prevent students from harming themselves while in school. Courts have interpreted that to mean that they must take whatever steps are within their power as soon as they (meaning any employee of the school) becomes aware of a potential threat. Given that they thought they generally have the power to search students for drugs (for instance, had the drugs in question been crack rocks, there would be no question), they could have exposed themselves to massive liabilities had they allowed her to continue to possess the drugs and someone got hurt.

tl;dr version: It's not fair to make the school liable for every little fucking bump and scrape when we also want to impose ever more restrictions on their enforcement.

That all said, it's obvious that ibuprofen is not harmful and they should know the difference. On the other hand, million-dollar liability can cloud the judgment of even the most rational folks, of which very few are employed as school administrators. That liability makes them err on the side of caution, in this case, erring like crazy.

Re:Don't be too hard on the school .... (1)

Reality Master 201 (578873) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320575)

Dude. Shut the fuck up. Just completely shut the fuck up. There's exactly nothing rational or reasonable about this.

The school may be acting in loco parentis while the kids are there, but that just doesn't even begin to permit this kind of thing. The only thing that is unfortunate is that the school district will wind up paying for this, as opposed to the people who conducted the search or ordered that it be done.

Fucking prescription strength Advil - a pill as powerful as TWO regular Advil. The school officials responsible are a fucking menace to everyone in society if they're that stupid and/or removed from the realm of common sense.

Re:Don't be too hard on the school .... (4, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320587)

Before you condemn the living shit out of the school district, try to remember that they have an affirmative responsibility to prevent students from harming themselves while in school.

Sorry, you're 100% full of shit. They failed in their responsibility to protect the children in their care, in case you didn't RTFA one of them got strip searched, for christ's sake.

-jcr

Why would you abuse ibuprofen? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320447)

Anyone know? I can understand ibuprofen with codeine, to get the codeine, but ibuprofen?

Is there a high I don't know about?

Which part of the Constiturion applies to children (4, Interesting)

aaandre (526056) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320449)

What I think is of importance here is how our culture treats children.

When does a child become a citizen if not at birth?

And, if children are citizens, what is the excuse of running schools with a level of oppression more appropriate of POW camps? Or making a child do something they are not ready or willing to?

Many parents resort to spanking their child to give them a lesson. When was the last time your boss spanked you or grounded you for not meeting the project deadline?

Our culture promotes treating children as property, making it "OK" for adults to abuse children verbally and psychologically and physically, just recently (in the last 100 or so years) addressing sexual abuse. Physical abuse is still widely accepted and even recommended. The right to privacy, the right to eat when and however much you want, the right to sleep when you are sleepy and use the bathroom when you are ready, are taken away from you when you are a child.

Strip searching a 13-year old girl is just a symptom of tour collective habitual disrespect for children's core dignity.

I suggest you check out this http://is.gd/oMQM [is.gd] and this http://is.gd/lQwS [is.gd]

Incorrect: "I was spanked as a kid and I turned OK."
Correct: "I was spanked as a kid and I grew up to believe that spanking is OK."

In light of her age and sex? (4, Insightful)

CWRUisTakingMyMoney (939585) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320455)

Wait. Not excessively intrusive in light of her age and sex? What the hell does THAT mean? Since when does a person's gender or age mean that a strip search is less intrusive? You're making somebody who's dramatically underage, BUT old enough to know what's going on, strip naked. If anything, the fact that she's young and female makes it MORE intrusive (I think the average boy would shrug it off better than a girl would; I might be wrong in that assumption, though). It sounds like whoever said that thinks young girls are worth less than other people, but I hope they're not actually saying that.

If this had been my child (2, Insightful)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320457)

then the offending school officials would probably have suffered a broken limb or two, immediately before being charged with sexual assault of a minor.

It just goes to show how far these idiot bureaucratic authoritarians will go in the name of their precious "zero tolerance" policies, which have ended up doing a lot more harm than good. They carried it too far with guns (searching and expelling students over squirtguns, for Christ's sake), and they have carried too far with "drugs".

Prescription-strength Ibuprofen, my ass. That would warrant maybe asking the student if it were in her possession, and asking her to flush it if it were. BFD.

I can tell you, honestly, if this had been my child I would have been seeing red. I would have damaged those people.

Only 400mg ibuprofen? (1)

kagenooni (1038676) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320461)

I used to carry 1200 mg ibuprofen back in the day when I had "stress induced headaches." When I got caught with it, they just said "Get a note from your doctor to bring this on campus." This was Los Angeles Unified School Disctrict - They find any reason to expell you from school. From the Artical:'Lawyers for the school district said in a brief that it was âoeon the front lines of a decades-long struggle against drug abuse among students.â Abuse of prescription and over-the-counter medications is on the rise among 12- and 13-year-olds, the brief said, citing data from the Office of National Drug Control Policy.' Srsly? What do you get when you take tons of ibuprofen? Last time I checked, just a damaged liver.

This just goes to show (4, Insightful)

honestmonkey (819408) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320505)

that "Zero Tolerance" policies are absurd. There is a reason why we have judge and juries. Laws do not apply evenly. Regardless of the policy, any reasonable person would see how stupid it was to trust another student's accusations and then harass a student with a good record over one pill of OTC pain relief.

Just say no to zero tolerance.

Let this be a warning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320511)

Students, let this be a warning to you. If asked to be searched, refuse. If they forcibly search you, that's assault. If they move or remove your underwear, that's sexual assault. Make sure that the bastards get charged with the felonies that these are.

The correct course of action for school administrators is to ask questions and act on credible evidence. The word of a minor (another student) is not credible.

Father should be facing charges (4, Insightful)

hoggoth (414195) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320597)

If I was the girls father I would now be facing my own charges of assault and battery for beating the shit out of the school assistance principle and the two staffers who strip searched my daughter for suspicion of having a fucking aspirin.

If that was my daughter (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320621)

There would be a related story about my murder trial. These assholes are fucking sick.

"Rreasonable" people?!? (1)

Samschnooks (1415697) | more than 4 years ago | (#27320641)

âoeDo we really want to encourage cases,â Professor Arum asked, âoewhere students and parents are seeking monetary damages against educators in such school-specific matters where reasonable people can disagree about what is appropriate under the circumstances?â

Reasonable people don't search other people, regardless of age, over Ibuprofen. Reasonable people don't search KIDS because of the accusations of liars. If a public school administrator moron thinks a kid is doing illegal drugs, you call their parents and maybe the cops.

Fucking moron.

I'm a Muslim (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27320645)

Just let some infidel dog strip search my daughter.......

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