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How To Prevent Being Hacked Via Backups?

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the don't-make-backups- dept.

Data Storage 214

Popsikle writes "A few days ago one of the Web's largest hosting discussion forums was supposedly hacked via their backup servers. From the story: 'We've since learned that this very deliberate, sophisticated and calculated hack against Web Hosting Talk was carried out by gaining access to our offsite backup servers. From our backup servers, the hacker gained access to the WHT db server. The malicious attacker deleted all backups from the backup servers within the infrastructure before deleting tables from our db server. We were alerted of the db exploitation and quickly shut down the site to prevent further damage.' What sort of security do you put on your backup infrastructure? Looking at your backup solution could you be completely taken down by either someone obtaining a backup or accessing your backup servers? What sort of recommendations does everyone have for this not to happen?"

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Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Reports (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325149)

Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Reports

- This just in, March 23 2009 Chinas central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund [ft.com]

- Russia too: It is necessary to work out and adopt internationally recognized standards for macroeconomic and budget policy, which are binding for the leading world economies, including the countries issuing reserve currencies - the Kremlin proposals read. [en.rian.ru]

- President Barak "The Teleprompter" Obama is deeply connected to corruption, Rahm Emanuel (Radical authoritarian Statist whose father was part of the Murderous Civilian Killing Israeli Terrorist Organization known as IRGUN), Connected to Rod Blagojevich (Rahm inherited Rod's federal-congress seat), Connected to Ayers, a man who promotes the concept that civilian collateral damage is ok in a war against freedom, Preacher Jeremiah Wright, who is himself a black-elitist who wants all the people who largely "pay the freight" to suffer, 31 million on food stamps, more blacks are in prison and on food-stamps per capita than anyone else. The problem with Wright is simply this: the facts are "racist."
- Obama: Racist, AIPAC-bootlicker, Corrupted to the bone Chicago style and a Traitor to the US Constitution and a Liar whose real "legal" name could very well be Barry Sotero and an Indonesian citizen (The US does not allow plural citizenship) (If you care, not that it matters anymore under a Lawless Authoritarian Totalitarian Regime, you can see more here at an aggregator; obamacrimes.info [obamacrimes.info] )
  - Raytheon lobbyist in Pentagon, lots lobbyists getting exemptions even though he promised not to have them.
- Goldman Sachs insider second in command at Treasury. Bumbling tax cheat idiot in "command" of Treasury with 17 positions unfilled as of late March 2009.
- Cabinet has had several nominees and appointees with multiple tax fraud issues.
- Lied about having a new degree of accountability and a SUNSHINE period of new laws, he has signed bills with little or no review at whitehouse.gov as promised.
- Appointed a second amendment violating Rich-pardoning treasonist Eric Holder as AG, the top cop of the USA, a man who helped a fugitive evade justice.
- Has not put a dime in for a single new nuclear power plant but wants to help bridges and roads to promote more driving.
- Obama, Blagojevich and Rahm Emanuel have a LOT to hide. They literally lived next to each other, Rahm had (until being Chairman Obama's Chief of staff) Blagojevich's old federal congressional seat. Blagojevich helped Chairman "The Teleprompter" Obama cheat his way to the Illinois senate by getting other candidates thrown off the ballot in Illinois. Why do you think Blagojevich was so mad? Obama DID owe him, big time. Rahm and Obama are using Blagojevich and trying to cut his head off to keep him away.
- Tony Rezko, Iraqi Arms Dealer Nahdmi Auchi, and of course Aiham Alsammarae. Chairman "The Teleprompter" Hussein Obama is so corrupted its a joke.
- Fools and "useful idiots" twist the pie charts by leaving welfare, workfare, interest on debt, social security, Medicare and Medicaid out and focusing only on non-whole "discretionary" pie charts.
2007 high level pie chart, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]
2009 Pie chart, detailed, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]
- Chairman Obama is drastically increasing spending and creating more entitlements that will make the US less competitive (especially against China, India, East Europe/Russia). This will be a huge disaster and change you can believe in will strap you and your grandkids with more debt. No taxation without representation? Obama is spending money for the next two-three generations and they can't even vote yet, or even have been born.
- An alternative to the dollar and a forex and a reserve currency came up at the last G20 meeting. The world will not take faith in Obama's liar-socialist spending and welfare state, why should the taxpayers (plebian citizen-slaves of a police state).
- The spending going on now vastly eclipses all previous spending. In fact, the massive trillion plus debts is a thing of the 80's onwards. Congress signs the checks, remember that Year after year, as egregious as the pentagon spending is, that the social spending is completely a waste of money and it is unfunded over the long term. Eisenhower built the interstates, the US could build a new power infrastructure with this money but instead is being pissed into creating more of an entitlement system that is STILL unfunded, and without massive poll-taxes and far more aggressive progressive taxes, could NEVER be funded.
- The budgeting being done today were recently reported by a non-partisan auditing commission will lead to about 10 TRILLION in new debt over the next 10 years. Obama is going to double the national debt while doing nothing to address the unfunded debt obligations of Social Security.
- Clinton appointed David Walker of the GAO, he quit, the unfunded debt obligations have rendered the USA insolvent according to accounting standards.
Taxpayers on the hook for $59 trillion [usatoday.com]
US Public Debt Unfunded Debt Obligations [wikipedia.org]
- Most of the world population gets NOTHING from their governments, or a very bare minimum or services that benefit only the upper echelons of society. However, the liar Chairman Obama says we need his universal "state-hospital" rationed health care to be competitive. Bull. China and India give nothing, and they are the biggest threat to the American worker. By forcing healthcare and higher taxes, Americans will be less competitive.
- If you think 60% tax rates end to end (income, accounts receivable tax, building permit tax, CDL tax, cigarette tax, corporate income tax, dog license tax, federal income tax, unemployment tax, gasoline tax, hunting license tax, fishing license tax, waterfowl stamp tax, inheritance tax, inventory tax, liquor tax, luxury tax, Medicare tax, city, school and county property tax (up 33 percent last 4 years), real estate tax, social security tax, road usage tax, toll road tax, state and city sales tax, recreational vehicle tax, excise tax, state franchise tax, state unemployment tax, telephone federal excise tax, telephone federal state and local surcharge tax, telephone minimum usage surcharge tax, telephone state and local tax, utility tax, vehicle license registration tax, capital gains tax, lease severance tax, oil and gas assessment tax, misc internet sales tax and many more taxes that I can't recall at the moment) will make the US competitive, along with compulsory programs to provide everyone with health care is going to make the US competitive in the age of India and China, you are a joke.
- As the US nationalizes (read: rations healthcare) to the least common denominator of affordability without regard to efficacy, people with money will simply look into medical tourism so those with money can go to medical parks in India and get real health care. Those who have lived in Canada or in the UK can tell you "free" healthcare is NOT a panacea. If you think this, you are again, a useful idiot. The NHS in the UK has given bad blood and Hepatitis and AIDS blood to people, and Jade Goody who just died was misdiagnosed twice resulting in her death (She was all cleared twice of cervical cancer which she just died of). The NHS in the UK is not able to be sued or held accountable. Neither will Chairman Obama's rationed health care service for America.
- Sorry to bust the socialist bubble-lie, but support of these types of policies will simply lower the standard of living in the USA, particularly for the middle class. At least at the end of the Eisenhower projects the USA got roads to show for the spending, and with this new spending, the USA could have built power plants that get the USA out of the middle east, but the age of government for the sake of government is upon us, and the useful idiots line up and believe empty promises.
The pentagon (and Bechtel, Kroll, Bluewater, Halliburton, etc) could get less than half of what they get today, but that will fix nothing fundamental in terms of government spending. It is simply not enough to make a difference when compared to the Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security entitlements.
See: YouTube - US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy [youtube.com]
- If Obama thinks its ok to lie to 300 million people about being able to "take care of them" without even being honest about what that care would look like, then being an idiot and believing in Obama is for you.
- The head of the IRS and the head of the Treasury, Geithner, is a Tax Cheat
- Lied about no lobbyists - their numbers are growing.
- The US Government already have over 50% of the budget on Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security. Socialists: Good job on that one, its working great. Solution to the current near-collapse-due-to-over-spending: add more unfunded entitlements!
- You Socialist-liars can break my spirit and my financial back to force me to "need" a federal government that is turning this country into a police state and turn it into a quasi-socialist lie, but I will, I must put up a fight. I have kids to educate and feed, and the stuff you sell (which is failing to various degrees everywhere else as implemented) is simply forcing a culture of failure on a once great, libertarian free country.
- I will not be complacent with your "change," and there will be a point where civil war will become an option. See how hard you can push before you get it. How much more than half can the truly productive workers in this country afford to pay. Keep pushing to find out how to start a civil war.
- The socialist-lie of a plan will not work, its not fundable, it WILL destroy the currency to fund it, and its really as simple as this: if this insanity is funded by borrowing from the US's economic and military adversaries then Obama and his socialist cabal is NOT fit to administrate society. Rome fell. Kings who mis-manged their treasuries all fell. Every example of unhinged spending leads to the same result: systemic collapse.
- Obama and his sycophantic lunatics would want to have a civil war to get Chairman Obama's way and force the socialist-lie system on my already tax paying law abiding ass. And as far as "no new taxes" for those under 250k, its a lie, the tax is called inflation, which is set to begin just about now that the Chinese wont want the USA's worthless treasuries to fund the socialist-lie fantasy (one that COMMUNIST China doesn't even try and sell to its people!)
- Chairman Obama's numbers don't add up. There is a $59 trillion dollar hole (UFDO) in social security alone. AIG $150 billion here, TARP $350 billion there. $800 billion for a highly dubious stimulus package. Another one on the way. $59 trillion hole in the balance sheet IGNORED. China saying they aren't going to buy treasuries, Clinton clamoring to find buyers now. $3.6 trillion dollar budget, potential military action on Mexico, Iran still a "terrorist state" at the behest of the AIPAC, spending up, dollar about to fall, inflation over time since Breton Woods extremely easy to document, yet, the socialist-liars question when the numbers (the Federal Government numbers) simply don't add up to the point where if the US-GOV was a company it would be insolvent.
  -How dare the taxpayers question what Chairman Obama's drastic spending increases are going to do to the purchasing power of our savings because Chairman Obama wants to recklessly spend and try to maintain and American empire AND guarantee a standard of living, and Chairman Obama doesn't even want to build a single nuclear power plant to do it? Chairman Obama must be a complete and total lunatic moron.
- Obama is either a negligent idiot or an unhinged maniac with delusional fantasies. Meanwhile, Chainman Obama's tax dodging Treasury Secretary has 17 unfilled positions, the Treasury Dept. isn't even functioning at this point.
- "General welfare" in the constitution was, according to the man who wrote it, Madison, meant to be extremely limited in scope. The federal government per the constitution doesn't even have the enumerated POWER to deal with economic messes. A lot of these "POWERS" were created while there is a crisis to dupe the public into accepting an un-constitutional authoritarian regime as the government and to usurp authority over the people.
- The USA is a constitutional republic. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting to eat a sheep. Also a constitutional republic isn't about using a barely-majority or a plurality to stuff your (un-fundable disastrous) crap down the disenfranchised other-half's throat.
- With Obama's authoritarian corrupted criminal (aiding and abetting a criminal in flight of prosecution, Rich case) Eric Holder in charge, we won't have our inalienable and enumerated rights to firearms much longer. For a constitutional law expert, Obama must have never read the federalist papers or he would simply hand himself as a traitor.
- The arbitrary expansion of "general welfare" is not only unconstitutional, it may very well lead to a serious conflict on the issue.
- Here is a debate on general welfare and how stuff like this came to pass, but was clearly no intended by the authors of the document of root law.
In Federalist No. 41, James Madison asked rhetorically: "For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power?" (In reference to the general welfare clause)
So strongly did the founders believe that "general welfare" wouldn't be expanded as written:
In Federalist No. 84, Alexander Hamilton indirectly confirmed Madison's point. (That the "general welfare" clause was "clearly" nota free pass for government)
Hamilton argued that a bill of rights, which many were clamoring for, would be not only unnecessary, but dangerous. Since the federal government was given only a few specific powers, there was no need to add prohibitions: it was implicitly prohibited by the listed powers. If a proposed law a relief act, for instance wasn't covered by any of these powers, it was unconstitutional.
"why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed?"
Hamilton goes on to argue that making Amendments (e.g., enumerating Free speech, press and assembly) and enumerating the 'right' would have the following effect:
(A bill of rights) "would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretence for claiming that power that is, a power to regulate the press, short of actually shutting it down. "
"With respect to the words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers (enumerated in the Constitution) connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison [The US Supreme Court has found the meaning of "general welfare" in the Constitution to be much more elastic than did Mr. Madison. But as the "author of the Constitution," what does he know?]
James Madison, when asked if the "general welfare" clause was a grant of power, replied in 1792, in a letter to Henry Lee,

If not only the means but the objects are unlimited, the parchment [the Constitution] should be thrown into the fire at once.

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government , and to provide new Guards for their future security. ...--The Declaration of Independence
- Wrong, monetizing failures causes more. Japan showed us this for decades. But hey, Chairman Obama thinks you can fix a problem DECADES in the making with a quick fixer-upper, he is screwed in the head.
- The complaints are with the Federal government (in general) since Breton Woods. The Federal Government and Obama's minions STILL didn't listen to David Walker, a Clinton appointee and former head of the GAO. This isn't about political parties anymore morons!
- Show me a single federal budget that was less than the previous. If this $3.6T budget goes, its never coming back barring systemic collapse.
- The United States Federal Government, The United States Federal Reserve, and the banks which were enabled to continue down reckless paths by a quasi government agency known as the Federal Reserve whose actions are not subject to congress and whose members are unelected. This situation is untenable and unconstitutional.
- Every inflationary road taken in history ends in collapse. Keynesian policies are widely regarded as no longer workable.
- Inflation is a tax: What ignorant tax and spenders don't take into account here is the relative percentages of people's wealth (both net and gross) and the costs of owning and maintaining houses, cars, standards of living.
- Inflation via deficit spending is going to make it such that you will be paying a lot more by percentage of your income to maintain a given standard of living. Obama's arguments are so poorly thought out and seek to blame "Republicans" for the mess, its really simply laughable - the needs cleanup now, not worsening.
- You can't spend your way out of a hole if the creditors (e.g. China) start telling the USA they won't buy. It is that simple. Now America starts to have to collateralize the debt with assets. The USA will be selling off chunks of American assets to back the new debt. One day, it may even be necessary to sell Alaska back to Russia because no one will take greenbacks to prop up a failing version of a modern Rome.
- Ah, here we go with the Matthew Lesko arguments. [lesko.com]
Interest rates were on the rise before the government stepped in with free money for everyone (the fine print of course indicate massive strings attached).
Other economies, for example, India, have the central rates set to far more reasonable/realistic rates (at the moment ~ 8+%), which is still tends to be too low, but shows that if you need someone else capital you need to pay a premium for it, and given that capital is in short supply, it would stand to reason that a premium must be charged for it.
The problem is the unrealistic growth rates of mature economies don't allow for profiting via growth projections (rather than simply earning money). So the government steps in, turns on the free money spigot, gets the interest rates for savings down in the 1-2% range while diluting the value of the whole currency in order to prop up dying companies that ran the business like a Madhoff Ponzi scheme.
- The Republicans aren't solely responsible for the crisis as Obama's minions would have you believe, congress is (no particular congress), the Executive of the US government (no particular one) and the US Federal Reserve System are all at fault.
- Fundamentally, the government is trying to fix the prices of various things to "make it all work." This pulling on the invisible hand is a fools venture. It was predicted long ago the housing collapse (and those, such as myself, in the know, wished while realizing the housing collapse coming that we were wrong for everyone's sake - but the truth is the truth) . It may be that the Austrian (von Mises) economists will ultimately be proven right.
- We are a nation of partially educated whiney grabby idiots, and we got the government that represents this. The Chinese, India and other up and coming nations will show no mercy for this arrogant abuse of our status as the world's forex reserves.
- War and asset sales will continue to be the only option for this scheme until it is corrected at the core. And to say that the government has already averted a depression by doing what they did (most of the monies injected wont be "felt" for some time), is just arrogance and stupidity. Price fixing prolonged the Great Depression. Price-fixing (or attempting to) houses will do the same, but probably worse.
- Obama's minions simply don't care if the US is bankrupted and rendered insolvent, they just want a say in how its done, presumably to "feel safe." Rather selfish.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." AND "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (Possibly Richard Jackson)

- Everyone better realize that inflation will pay a major role in funding un-fundable fantasies, wiping the savers and the middle class out. The problem is, that other countries are growing tired of making our Federal Reserve notes worth something by buying our debt as treasuries. Obama's minions talk about spending, but in order to "get what YOU want" you will sell debt to potential economic and military adversaries? Real bright. What's really sad is that despite David Walker being an authority on these issues, people refuse to even watch him and listen to what he is saying.
- On the success of Canada and its form of Socialism: A huge country like Canada with massive amounts of uranium and tar sands and natural resources and a huge land mass with a scant 30 million people is an order of magnitude less of a problem to manage than a country with 10x its population, a serious leaky southern border, backfiring aggressive foreign policy, particularly with Iran, and the US is competing with countries like India and China whose middle classes are larger than the US's entire population. The top 5 students in every Indian and Chinese primary school out numbers all the kids in primary school in the US. Canada is a idyllic island, the USA is front and center in an all out economic and political clash of ideologies.
- Cap and trade (and pollution control for solving global problems) will never work unless the top 10 countries in the world (in terms of both GDP and manufacturing capacity and population) are on board. Period end. If the world doesn't quickly move to nuclear now and fusion shortly, it is OVER possibly not if every home on the planet gets a wind vane, but that seems unlikely to happen (since its possible now).
- Keynes calls it "the paradox of thrift" and suggested that policies forcing people not to save is a "good idea." The guy wanted people spending all the time, or if he didn't, he never conveyed that to his protégés well enough for them to not do what they are doing. Right now the plebeians in the US are actually stashing cash, and everyone from Obama to the media is trying to get people to spend spend spend. The best thing for the long term is for people to prepare for the coming hell, not set out with no reserves.
- I have seen Keynes invoked to justify nearly every bad move in the past decade, and its warming up to be a potential currency collapse, the collapse of the US Treasury and Federal Reserve notes, and a collapse of the NYSE. And then they invoke Keynes to suggest the best way out of the mess is to spend out of an already near-critically debt massed black hole.
- A house is run like a town is run like a country or business is run like a state is run like a government. If there are things the government is doing that would either force your home into bankruptcy or into jail via fraud charges, then the government and banks shouldn't be operating in that fashion. A certain degree of stretchy liquidity is in order, but in terms of percent of GDP, there is no way of justifying what they US has now.
- Iceland failed at 850 percent debt to GDP. The US is at 350 and rising. It is not a good thing at all.
- What is happening to the dollar as a forex standard. [youtube.com]
- March 19, 2009 C-SPAN - "Let's Quit Destroying Our Dollar!" [youtube.com]
- HR 1207 (A bill to make the Fed more accountable and to answer questions regarding the dollar policy) [loc.gov]

Title: Obama sidetracked by fiscal mess, but presses on [yahoo.com]
"Being heard above the din may prove difficult. Lawmakers are wrangling over taxing people who got big bonuses and worrying the president's budget could generate $9.3 trillion in red ink over the next decade."
- Kremlin to pitch new global currency [infowars.com]
Russia proposes creation of global super-reserve currency

Holy crap, even the Russians and Chinese get it. Strange days are here.

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Report (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326051)

B-O-R-I-N-G

truncate immediately visible post length (0, Offtopic)

unity100 (970058) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327613)

i had to scroll 5 pages through troll spam until i was able to get to any real comment in 2 of the stories i read today. this is getting annoying. we should either truncate the immediately visible length of posts to some low number enough for a paragraph so spamming wont necessitate scrolling. or ban their ips.

Like this: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325151)

8==D

Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Reports (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325155)

Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Reports

- This just in, March 23 2009 Chinas central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund [ft.com]

- Russia too: It is necessary to work out and adopt internationally recognized standards for macroeconomic and budget policy, which are binding for the leading world economies, including the countries issuing reserve currencies - the Kremlin proposals read. [en.rian.ru]

- President Barak "The Teleprompter" Obama is deeply connected to corruption, Rahm Emanuel (Radical authoritarian Statist whose father was part of the Murderous Civilian Killing Israeli Terrorist Organization known as IRGUN), Connected to Rod Blagojevich (Rahm inherited Rod's federal-congress seat), Connected to Ayers, a man who promotes the concept that civilian collateral damage is ok in a war against freedom, Preacher Jeremiah Wright, who is himself a black-elitist who wants all the people who largely "pay the freight" to suffer, 31 million on food stamps, more blacks are in prison and on food-stamps per capita than anyone else. The problem with Wright is simply this: the facts are "racist."
- Obama: Racist, AIPAC-bootlicker, Corrupted to the bone Chicago style and a Traitor to the US Constitution and a Liar whose real "legal" name could very well be Barry Sotero and an Indonesian citizen (The US does not allow plural citizenship) (If you care, not that it matters anymore under a Lawless Authoritarian Totalitarian Regime, you can see more here at an aggregator; obamacrimes.info [obamacrimes.info] )
  - Raytheon lobbyist in Pentagon, lots lobbyists getting exemptions even though he promised not to have them.
- Goldman Sachs insider second in command at Treasury. Bumbling tax cheat idiot in "command" of Treasury with 17 positions unfilled as of late March 2009.
- Cabinet has had several nominees and appointees with multiple tax fraud issues.
- Lied about having a new degree of accountability and a SUNSHINE period of new laws, he has signed bills with little or no review at whitehouse.gov as promised.
- Appointed a second amendment violating Rich-pardoning treasonist Eric Holder as AG, the top cop of the USA, a man who helped a fugitive evade justice.
- Has not put a dime in for a single new nuclear power plant but wants to help bridges and roads to promote more driving.
- Obama, Blagojevich and Rahm Emanuel have a LOT to hide. They literally lived next to each other, Rahm had (until being Chairman Obama's Chief of staff) Blagojevich's old federal congressional seat. Blagojevich helped Chairman "The Teleprompter" Obama cheat his way to the Illinois senate by getting other candidates thrown off the ballot in Illinois. Why do you think Blagojevich was so mad? Obama DID owe him, big time. Rahm and Obama are using Blagojevich and trying to cut his head off to keep him away.
- Tony Rezko, Iraqi Arms Dealer Nahdmi Auchi, and of course Aiham Alsammarae. Chairman "The Teleprompter" Hussein Obama is so corrupted its a joke.
- Fools and "useful idiots" twist the pie charts by leaving welfare, workfare, interest on debt, social security, Medicare and Medicaid out and focusing only on non-whole "discretionary" pie charts.
2007 high level pie chart, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]
2009 Pie chart, detailed, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]
- Chairman Obama is drastically increasing spending and creating more entitlements that will make the US less competitive (especially against China, India, East Europe/Russia). This will be a huge disaster and change you can believe in will strap you and your grandkids with more debt. No taxation without representation? Obama is spending money for the next two-three generations and they can't even vote yet, or even have been born.
- An alternative to the dollar and a forex and a reserve currency came up at the last G20 meeting. The world will not take faith in Obama's liar-socialist spending and welfare state, why should the taxpayers (plebian citizen-slaves of a police state).
- The spending going on now vastly eclipses all previous spending. In fact, the massive trillion plus debts is a thing of the 80's onwards. Congress signs the checks, remember that Year after year, as egregious as the pentagon spending is, that the social spending is completely a waste of money and it is unfunded over the long term. Eisenhower built the interstates, the US could build a new power infrastructure with this money but instead is being pissed into creating more of an entitlement system that is STILL unfunded, and without massive poll-taxes and far more aggressive progressive taxes, could NEVER be funded.
- The budgeting being done today were recently reported by a non-partisan auditing commission will lead to about 10 TRILLION in new debt over the next 10 years. Obama is going to double the national debt while doing nothing to address the unfunded debt obligations of Social Security.
- Clinton appointed David Walker of the GAO, he quit, the unfunded debt obligations have rendered the USA insolvent according to accounting standards.
Taxpayers on the hook for $59 trillion [usatoday.com]
US Public Debt Unfunded Debt Obligations [wikipedia.org]
- Most of the world population gets NOTHING from their governments, or a very bare minimum or services that benefit only the upper echelons of society. However, the liar Chairman Obama says we need his universal "state-hospital" rationed health care to be competitive. Bull. China and India give nothing, and they are the biggest threat to the American worker. By forcing healthcare and higher taxes, Americans will be less competitive.
- If you think 60% tax rates end to end (income, accounts receivable tax, building permit tax, CDL tax, cigarette tax, corporate income tax, dog license tax, federal income tax, unemployment tax, gasoline tax, hunting license tax, fishing license tax, waterfowl stamp tax, inheritance tax, inventory tax, liquor tax, luxury tax, Medicare tax, city, school and county property tax (up 33 percent last 4 years), real estate tax, social security tax, road usage tax, toll road tax, state and city sales tax, recreational vehicle tax, excise tax, state franchise tax, state unemployment tax, telephone federal excise tax, telephone federal state and local surcharge tax, telephone minimum usage surcharge tax, telephone state and local tax, utility tax, vehicle license registration tax, capital gains tax, lease severance tax, oil and gas assessment tax, misc internet sales tax and many more taxes that I can't recall at the moment) will make the US competitive, along with compulsory programs to provide everyone with health care is going to make the US competitive in the age of India and China, you are a joke.
- As the US nationalizes (read: rations healthcare) to the least common denominator of affordability without regard to efficacy, people with money will simply look into medical tourism so those with money can go to medical parks in India and get real health care. Those who have lived in Canada or in the UK can tell you "free" healthcare is NOT a panacea. If you think this, you are again, a useful idiot. The NHS in the UK has given bad blood and Hepatitis and AIDS blood to people, and Jade Goody who just died was misdiagnosed twice resulting in her death (She was all cleared twice of cervical cancer which she just died of). The NHS in the UK is not able to be sued or held accountable. Neither will Chairman Obama's rationed health care service for America.
- Sorry to bust the socialist bubble-lie, but support of these types of policies will simply lower the standard of living in the USA, particularly for the middle class. At least at the end of the Eisenhower projects the USA got roads to show for the spending, and with this new spending, the USA could have built power plants that get the USA out of the middle east, but the age of government for the sake of government is upon us, and the useful idiots line up and believe empty promises.
The pentagon (and Bechtel, Kroll, Bluewater, Halliburton, etc) could get less than half of what they get today, but that will fix nothing fundamental in terms of government spending. It is simply not enough to make a difference when compared to the Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security entitlements.
See: YouTube - US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy [youtube.com]
- If Obama thinks its ok to lie to 300 million people about being able to "take care of them" without even being honest about what that care would look like, then being an idiot and believing in Obama is for you.
- The head of the IRS and the head of the Treasury, Geithner, is a Tax Cheat
- Lied about no lobbyists - their numbers are growing.
- The US Government already have over 50% of the budget on Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security. Socialists: Good job on that one, its working great. Solution to the current near-collapse-due-to-over-spending: add more unfunded entitlements!
- You Socialist-liars can break my spirit and my financial back to force me to "need" a federal government that is turning this country into a police state and turn it into a quasi-socialist lie, but I will, I must put up a fight. I have kids to educate and feed, and the stuff you sell (which is failing to various degrees everywhere else as implemented) is simply forcing a culture of failure on a once great, libertarian free country.
- I will not be complacent with your "change," and there will be a point where civil war will become an option. See how hard you can push before you get it. How much more than half can the truly productive workers in this country afford to pay. Keep pushing to find out how to start a civil war.
- The socialist-lie of a plan will not work, its not fundable, it WILL destroy the currency to fund it, and its really as simple as this: if this insanity is funded by borrowing from the US's economic and military adversaries then Obama and his socialist cabal is NOT fit to administrate society. Rome fell. Kings who mis-manged their treasuries all fell. Every example of unhinged spending leads to the same result: systemic collapse.
- Obama and his sycophantic lunatics would want to have a civil war to get Chairman Obama's way and force the socialist-lie system on my already tax paying law abiding ass. And as far as "no new taxes" for those under 250k, its a lie, the tax is called inflation, which is set to begin just about now that the Chinese wont want the USA's worthless treasuries to fund the socialist-lie fantasy (one that COMMUNIST China doesn't even try and sell to its people!)
- Chairman Obama's numbers don't add up. There is a $59 trillion dollar hole (UFDO) in social security alone. AIG $150 billion here, TARP $350 billion there. $800 billion for a highly dubious stimulus package. Another one on the way. $59 trillion hole in the balance sheet IGNORED. China saying they aren't going to buy treasuries, Clinton clamoring to find buyers now. $3.6 trillion dollar budget, potential military action on Mexico, Iran still a "terrorist state" at the behest of the AIPAC, spending up, dollar about to fall, inflation over time since Breton Woods extremely easy to document, yet, the socialist-liars question when the numbers (the Federal Government numbers) simply don't add up to the point where if the US-GOV was a company it would be insolvent.
  -How dare the taxpayers question what Chairman Obama's drastic spending increases are going to do to the purchasing power of our savings because Chairman Obama wants to recklessly spend and try to maintain and American empire AND guarantee a standard of living, and Chairman Obama doesn't even want to build a single nuclear power plant to do it? Chairman Obama must be a complete and total lunatic moron.
- Obama is either a negligent idiot or an unhinged maniac with delusional fantasies. Meanwhile, Chainman Obama's tax dodging Treasury Secretary has 17 unfilled positions, the Treasury Dept. isn't even functioning at this point.
- "General welfare" in the constitution was, according to the man who wrote it, Madison, meant to be extremely limited in scope. The federal government per the constitution doesn't even have the enumerated POWER to deal with economic messes. A lot of these "POWERS" were created while there is a crisis to dupe the public into accepting an un-constitutional authoritarian regime as the government and to usurp authority over the people.
- The USA is a constitutional republic. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting to eat a sheep. Also a constitutional republic isn't about using a barely-majority or a plurality to stuff your (un-fundable disastrous) crap down the disenfranchised other-half's throat.
- With Obama's authoritarian corrupted criminal (aiding and abetting a criminal in flight of prosecution, Rich case) Eric Holder in charge, we won't have our inalienable and enumerated rights to firearms much longer. For a constitutional law expert, Obama must have never read the federalist papers or he would simply hand himself as a traitor.
- The arbitrary expansion of "general welfare" is not only unconstitutional, it may very well lead to a serious conflict on the issue.
- Here is a debate on general welfare and how stuff like this came to pass, but was clearly no intended by the authors of the document of root law.
In Federalist No. 41, James Madison asked rhetorically: "For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power?" (In reference to the general welfare clause)
So strongly did the founders believe that "general welfare" wouldn't be expanded as written:
In Federalist No. 84, Alexander Hamilton indirectly confirmed Madison's point. (That the "general welfare" clause was "clearly" nota free pass for government)
Hamilton argued that a bill of rights, which many were clamoring for, would be not only unnecessary, but dangerous. Since the federal government was given only a few specific powers, there was no need to add prohibitions: it was implicitly prohibited by the listed powers. If a proposed law a relief act, for instance wasn't covered by any of these powers, it was unconstitutional.
"why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed?"
Hamilton goes on to argue that making Amendments (e.g., enumerating Free speech, press and assembly) and enumerating the 'right' would have the following effect:
(A bill of rights) "would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretence for claiming that power that is, a power to regulate the press, short of actually shutting it down. "
"With respect to the words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers (enumerated in the Constitution) connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison [The US Supreme Court has found the meaning of "general welfare" in the Constitution to be much more elastic than did Mr. Madison. But as the "author of the Constitution," what does he know?]
James Madison, when asked if the "general welfare" clause was a grant of power, replied in 1792, in a letter to Henry Lee,

If not only the means but the objects are unlimited, the parchment [the Constitution] should be thrown into the fire at once.

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government , and to provide new Guards for their future security. ...--The Declaration of Independence
- Wrong, monetizing failures causes more. Japan showed us this for decades. But hey, Chairman Obama thinks you can fix a problem DECADES in the making with a quick fixer-upper, he is screwed in the head.
- The complaints are with the Federal government (in general) since Breton Woods. The Federal Government and Obama's minions STILL didn't listen to David Walker, a Clinton appointee and former head of the GAO. This isn't about political parties anymore morons!
- Show me a single federal budget that was less than the previous. If this $3.6T budget goes, its never coming back barring systemic collapse.
- The United States Federal Government, The United States Federal Reserve, and the banks which were enabled to continue down reckless paths by a quasi government agency known as the Federal Reserve whose actions are not subject to congress and whose members are unelected. This situation is untenable and unconstitutional.
- Every inflationary road taken in history ends in collapse. Keynesian policies are widely regarded as no longer workable.
- Inflation is a tax: What ignorant tax and spenders don't take into account here is the relative percentages of people's wealth (both net and gross) and the costs of owning and maintaining houses, cars, standards of living.
- Inflation via deficit spending is going to make it such that you will be paying a lot more by percentage of your income to maintain a given standard of living. Obama's arguments are so poorly thought out and seek to blame "Republicans" for the mess, its really simply laughable - the needs cleanup now, not worsening.
- You can't spend your way out of a hole if the creditors (e.g. China) start telling the USA they won't buy. It is that simple. Now America starts to have to collateralize the debt with assets. The USA will be selling off chunks of American assets to back the new debt. One day, it may even be necessary to sell Alaska back to Russia because no one will take greenbacks to prop up a failing version of a modern Rome.
- Ah, here we go with the Matthew Lesko arguments. [lesko.com]
Interest rates were on the rise before the government stepped in with free money for everyone (the fine print of course indicate massive strings attached).
Other economies, for example, India, have the central rates set to far more reasonable/realistic rates (at the moment ~ 8+%), which is still tends to be too low, but shows that if you need someone else capital you need to pay a premium for it, and given that capital is in short supply, it would stand to reason that a premium must be charged for it.
The problem is the unrealistic growth rates of mature economies don't allow for profiting via growth projections (rather than simply earning money). So the government steps in, turns on the free money spigot, gets the interest rates for savings down in the 1-2% range while diluting the value of the whole currency in order to prop up dying companies that ran the business like a Madhoff Ponzi scheme.
- The Republicans aren't solely responsible for the crisis as Obama's minions would have you believe, congress is (no particular congress), the Executive of the US government (no particular one) and the US Federal Reserve System are all at fault.
- Fundamentally, the government is trying to fix the prices of various things to "make it all work." This pulling on the invisible hand is a fools venture. It was predicted long ago the housing collapse (and those, such as myself, in the know, wished while realizing the housing collapse coming that we were wrong for everyone's sake - but the truth is the truth) . It may be that the Austrian (von Mises) economists will ultimately be proven right.
- We are a nation of partially educated whiney grabby idiots, and we got the government that represents this. The Chinese, India and other up and coming nations will show no mercy for this arrogant abuse of our status as the world's forex reserves.
- War and asset sales will continue to be the only option for this scheme until it is corrected at the core. And to say that the government has already averted a depression by doing what they did (most of the monies injected wont be "felt" for some time), is just arrogance and stupidity. Price fixing prolonged the Great Depression. Price-fixing (or attempting to) houses will do the same, but probably worse.
- Obama's minions simply don't care if the US is bankrupted and rendered insolvent, they just want a say in how its done, presumably to "feel safe." Rather selfish.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." AND "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (Possibly Richard Jackson)

- Everyone better realize that inflation will pay a major role in funding un-fundable fantasies, wiping the savers and the middle class out. The problem is, that other countries are growing tired of making our Federal Reserve notes worth something by buying our debt as treasuries. Obama's minions talk about spending, but in order to "get what YOU want" you will sell debt to potential economic and military adversaries? Real bright. What's really sad is that despite David Walker being an authority on these issues, people refuse to even watch him and listen to what he is saying.
- On the success of Canada and its form of Socialism: A huge country like Canada with massive amounts of uranium and tar sands and natural resources and a huge land mass with a scant 30 million people is an order of magnitude less of a problem to manage than a country with 10x its population, a serious leaky southern border, backfiring aggressive foreign policy, particularly with Iran, and the US is competing with countries like India and China whose middle classes are larger than the US's entire population. The top 5 students in every Indian and Chinese primary school out numbers all the kids in primary school in the US. Canada is a idyllic island, the USA is front and center in an all out economic and political clash of ideologies.
- Cap and trade (and pollution control for solving global problems) will never work unless the top 10 countries in the world (in terms of both GDP and manufacturing capacity and population) are on board. Period end. If the world doesn't quickly move to nuclear now and fusion shortly, it is OVER possibly not if every home on the planet gets a wind vane, but that seems unlikely to happen (since its possible now).
- Keynes calls it "the paradox of thrift" and suggested that policies forcing people not to save is a "good idea." The guy wanted people spending all the time, or if he didn't, he never conveyed that to his protégés well enough for them to not do what they are doing. Right now the plebeians in the US are actually stashing cash, and everyone from Obama to the media is trying to get people to spend spend spend. The best thing for the long term is for people to prepare for the coming hell, not set out with no reserves.
- I have seen Keynes invoked to justify nearly every bad move in the past decade, and its warming up to be a potential currency collapse, the collapse of the US Treasury and Federal Reserve notes, and a collapse of the NYSE. And then they invoke Keynes to suggest the best way out of the mess is to spend out of an already near-critically debt massed black hole.
- A house is run like a town is run like a country or business is run like a state is run like a government. If there are things the government is doing that would either force your home into bankruptcy or into jail via fraud charges, then the government and banks shouldn't be operating in that fashion. A certain degree of stretchy liquidity is in order, but in terms of percent of GDP, there is no way of justifying what they US has now.
- Iceland failed at 850 percent debt to GDP. The US is at 350 and rising. It is not a good thing at all.
- What is happening to the dollar as a forex standard. [youtube.com]
- March 19, 2009 C-SPAN - "Let's Quit Destroying Our Dollar!" [youtube.com]
- HR 1207 (A bill to make the Fed more accountable and to answer questions regarding the dollar policy) [loc.gov]

Title: Obama sidetracked by fiscal mess, but presses on [yahoo.com]
"Being heard above the din may prove difficult. Lawmakers are wrangling over taxing people who got big bonuses and worrying the president's budget could generate $9.3 trillion in red ink over the next decade."
- Kremlin to pitch new global currency [infowars.com]
Russia proposes creation of global super-reserve currency

Holy crap, even the Russians and Chinese get it. Strange days are here.

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Report (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325209)

Shut up.

Re:Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Report (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325237)

Or else?
----------------------

Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Reports

- This just in, March 23 2009 Chinas central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund [ft.com]

- Russia too: It is necessary to work out and adopt internationally recognized standards for macroeconomic and budget policy, which are binding for the leading world economies, including the countries issuing reserve currencies - the Kremlin proposals read. [en.rian.ru]

- President Barak "The Teleprompter" Obama is deeply connected to corruption, Rahm Emanuel (Radical authoritarian Statist whose father was part of the Murderous Civilian Killing Israeli Terrorist Organization known as IRGUN), Connected to Rod Blagojevich (Rahm inherited Rod's federal-congress seat), Connected to Ayers, a man who promotes the concept that civilian collateral damage is ok in a war against freedom, Preacher Jeremiah Wright, who is himself a black-elitist who wants all the people who largely "pay the freight" to suffer, 31 million on food stamps, more blacks are in prison and on food-stamps per capita than anyone else. The problem with Wright is simply this: the facts are "racist."
- Obama: Racist, AIPAC-bootlicker, Corrupted to the bone Chicago style and a Traitor to the US Constitution and a Liar whose real "legal" name could very well be Barry Sotero and an Indonesian citizen (The US does not allow plural citizenship) (If you care, not that it matters anymore under a Lawless Authoritarian Totalitarian Regime, you can see more here at an aggregator; obamacrimes.info [obamacrimes.info] )
  - Raytheon lobbyist in Pentagon, lots lobbyists getting exemptions even though he promised not to have them.
- Goldman Sachs insider second in command at Treasury. Bumbling tax cheat idiot in "command" of Treasury with 17 positions unfilled as of late March 2009.
- Cabinet has had several nominees and appointees with multiple tax fraud issues.
- Lied about having a new degree of accountability and a SUNSHINE period of new laws, he has signed bills with little or no review at whitehouse.gov as promised.
- Appointed a second amendment violating Rich-pardoning treasonist Eric Holder as AG, the top cop of the USA, a man who helped a fugitive evade justice.
- Has not put a dime in for a single new nuclear power plant but wants to help bridges and roads to promote more driving.
- Obama, Blagojevich and Rahm Emanuel have a LOT to hide. They literally lived next to each other, Rahm had (until being Chairman Obama's Chief of staff) Blagojevich's old federal congressional seat. Blagojevich helped Chairman "The Teleprompter" Obama cheat his way to the Illinois senate by getting other candidates thrown off the ballot in Illinois. Why do you think Blagojevich was so mad? Obama DID owe him, big time. Rahm and Obama are using Blagojevich and trying to cut his head off to keep him away.
- Tony Rezko, Iraqi Arms Dealer Nahdmi Auchi, and of course Aiham Alsammarae. Chairman "The Teleprompter" Hussein Obama is so corrupted its a joke.
- Fools and "useful idiots" twist the pie charts by leaving welfare, workfare, interest on debt, social security, Medicare and Medicaid out and focusing only on non-whole "discretionary" pie charts.
2007 high level pie chart, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]
2009 Pie chart, detailed, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]
- Chairman Obama is drastically increasing spending and creating more entitlements that will make the US less competitive (especially against China, India, East Europe/Russia). This will be a huge disaster and change you can believe in will strap you and your grandkids with more debt. No taxation without representation? Obama is spending money for the next two-three generations and they can't even vote yet, or even have been born.
- An alternative to the dollar and a forex and a reserve currency came up at the last G20 meeting. The world will not take faith in Obama's liar-socialist spending and welfare state, why should the taxpayers (plebian citizen-slaves of a police state).
- The spending going on now vastly eclipses all previous spending. In fact, the massive trillion plus debts is a thing of the 80's onwards. Congress signs the checks, remember that Year after year, as egregious as the pentagon spending is, that the social spending is completely a waste of money and it is unfunded over the long term. Eisenhower built the interstates, the US could build a new power infrastructure with this money but instead is being pissed into creating more of an entitlement system that is STILL unfunded, and without massive poll-taxes and far more aggressive progressive taxes, could NEVER be funded.
- The budgeting being done today were recently reported by a non-partisan auditing commission will lead to about 10 TRILLION in new debt over the next 10 years. Obama is going to double the national debt while doing nothing to address the unfunded debt obligations of Social Security.
- Clinton appointed David Walker of the GAO, he quit, the unfunded debt obligations have rendered the USA insolvent according to accounting standards.
Taxpayers on the hook for $59 trillion [usatoday.com]
US Public Debt Unfunded Debt Obligations [wikipedia.org]
- Most of the world population gets NOTHING from their governments, or a very bare minimum or services that benefit only the upper echelons of society. However, the liar Chairman Obama says we need his universal "state-hospital" rationed health care to be competitive. Bull. China and India give nothing, and they are the biggest threat to the American worker. By forcing healthcare and higher taxes, Americans will be less competitive.
- If you think 60% tax rates end to end (income, accounts receivable tax, building permit tax, CDL tax, cigarette tax, corporate income tax, dog license tax, federal income tax, unemployment tax, gasoline tax, hunting license tax, fishing license tax, waterfowl stamp tax, inheritance tax, inventory tax, liquor tax, luxury tax, Medicare tax, city, school and county property tax (up 33 percent last 4 years), real estate tax, social security tax, road usage tax, toll road tax, state and city sales tax, recreational vehicle tax, excise tax, state franchise tax, state unemployment tax, telephone federal excise tax, telephone federal state and local surcharge tax, telephone minimum usage surcharge tax, telephone state and local tax, utility tax, vehicle license registration tax, capital gains tax, lease severance tax, oil and gas assessment tax, misc internet sales tax and many more taxes that I can't recall at the moment) will make the US competitive, along with compulsory programs to provide everyone with health care is going to make the US competitive in the age of India and China, you are a joke.
- As the US nationalizes (read: rations healthcare) to the least common denominator of affordability without regard to efficacy, people with money will simply look into medical tourism so those with money can go to medical parks in India and get real health care. Those who have lived in Canada or in the UK can tell you "free" healthcare is NOT a panacea. If you think this, you are again, a useful idiot. The NHS in the UK has given bad blood and Hepatitis and AIDS blood to people, and Jade Goody who just died was misdiagnosed twice resulting in her death (She was all cleared twice of cervical cancer which she just died of). The NHS in the UK is not able to be sued or held accountable. Neither will Chairman Obama's rationed health care service for America.
- Sorry to bust the socialist bubble-lie, but support of these types of policies will simply lower the standard of living in the USA, particularly for the middle class. At least at the end of the Eisenhower projects the USA got roads to show for the spending, and with this new spending, the USA could have built power plants that get the USA out of the middle east, but the age of government for the sake of government is upon us, and the useful idiots line up and believe empty promises.
The pentagon (and Bechtel, Kroll, Bluewater, Halliburton, etc) could get less than half of what they get today, but that will fix nothing fundamental in terms of government spending. It is simply not enough to make a difference when compared to the Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security entitlements.
See: YouTube - US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy [youtube.com]
- If Obama thinks its ok to lie to 300 million people about being able to "take care of them" without even being honest about what that care would look like, then being an idiot and believing in Obama is for you.
- The head of the IRS and the head of the Treasury, Geithner, is a Tax Cheat
- Lied about no lobbyists - their numbers are growing.
- The US Government already have over 50% of the budget on Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security. Socialists: Good job on that one, its working great. Solution to the current near-collapse-due-to-over-spending: add more unfunded entitlements!
- You Socialist-liars can break my spirit and my financial back to force me to "need" a federal government that is turning this country into a police state and turn it into a quasi-socialist lie, but I will, I must put up a fight. I have kids to educate and feed, and the stuff you sell (which is failing to various degrees everywhere else as implemented) is simply forcing a culture of failure on a once great, libertarian free country.
- I will not be complacent with your "change," and there will be a point where civil war will become an option. See how hard you can push before you get it. How much more than half can the truly productive workers in this country afford to pay. Keep pushing to find out how to start a civil war.
- The socialist-lie of a plan will not work, its not fundable, it WILL destroy the currency to fund it, and its really as simple as this: if this insanity is funded by borrowing from the US's economic and military adversaries then Obama and his socialist cabal is NOT fit to administrate society. Rome fell. Kings who mis-manged their treasuries all fell. Every example of unhinged spending leads to the same result: systemic collapse.
- Obama and his sycophantic lunatics would want to have a civil war to get Chairman Obama's way and force the socialist-lie system on my already tax paying law abiding ass. And as far as "no new taxes" for those under 250k, its a lie, the tax is called inflation, which is set to begin just about now that the Chinese wont want the USA's worthless treasuries to fund the socialist-lie fantasy (one that COMMUNIST China doesn't even try and sell to its people!)
- Chairman Obama's numbers don't add up. There is a $59 trillion dollar hole (UFDO) in social security alone. AIG $150 billion here, TARP $350 billion there. $800 billion for a highly dubious stimulus package. Another one on the way. $59 trillion hole in the balance sheet IGNORED. China saying they aren't going to buy treasuries, Clinton clamoring to find buyers now. $3.6 trillion dollar budget, potential military action on Mexico, Iran still a "terrorist state" at the behest of the AIPAC, spending up, dollar about to fall, inflation over time since Breton Woods extremely easy to document, yet, the socialist-liars question when the numbers (the Federal Government numbers) simply don't add up to the point where if the US-GOV was a company it would be insolvent.
  -How dare the taxpayers question what Chairman Obama's drastic spending increases are going to do to the purchasing power of our savings because Chairman Obama wants to recklessly spend and try to maintain and American empire AND guarantee a standard of living, and Chairman Obama doesn't even want to build a single nuclear power plant to do it? Chairman Obama must be a complete and total lunatic moron.
- Obama is either a negligent idiot or an unhinged maniac with delusional fantasies. Meanwhile, Chainman Obama's tax dodging Treasury Secretary has 17 unfilled positions, the Treasury Dept. isn't even functioning at this point.
- "General welfare" in the constitution was, according to the man who wrote it, Madison, meant to be extremely limited in scope. The federal government per the constitution doesn't even have the enumerated POWER to deal with economic messes. A lot of these "POWERS" were created while there is a crisis to dupe the public into accepting an un-constitutional authoritarian regime as the government and to usurp authority over the people.
- The USA is a constitutional republic. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting to eat a sheep. Also a constitutional republic isn't about using a barely-majority or a plurality to stuff your (un-fundable disastrous) crap down the disenfranchised other-half's throat.
- With Obama's authoritarian corrupted criminal (aiding and abetting a criminal in flight of prosecution, Rich case) Eric Holder in charge, we won't have our inalienable and enumerated rights to firearms much longer. For a constitutional law expert, Obama must have never read the federalist papers or he would simply hand himself as a traitor.
- The arbitrary expansion of "general welfare" is not only unconstitutional, it may very well lead to a serious conflict on the issue.
- Here is a debate on general welfare and how stuff like this came to pass, but was clearly no intended by the authors of the document of root law.
In Federalist No. 41, James Madison asked rhetorically: "For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power?" (In reference to the general welfare clause)
So strongly did the founders believe that "general welfare" wouldn't be expanded as written:
In Federalist No. 84, Alexander Hamilton indirectly confirmed Madison's point. (That the "general welfare" clause was "clearly" nota free pass for government)
Hamilton argued that a bill of rights, which many were clamoring for, would be not only unnecessary, but dangerous. Since the federal government was given only a few specific powers, there was no need to add prohibitions: it was implicitly prohibited by the listed powers. If a proposed law a relief act, for instance wasn't covered by any of these powers, it was unconstitutional.
"why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed?"
Hamilton goes on to argue that making Amendments (e.g., enumerating Free speech, press and assembly) and enumerating the 'right' would have the following effect:
(A bill of rights) "would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretence for claiming that power that is, a power to regulate the press, short of actually shutting it down. "
"With respect to the words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers (enumerated in the Constitution) connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison [The US Supreme Court has found the meaning of "general welfare" in the Constitution to be much more elastic than did Mr. Madison. But as the "author of the Constitution," what does he know?]
James Madison, when asked if the "general welfare" clause was a grant of power, replied in 1792, in a letter to Henry Lee,

If not only the means but the objects are unlimited, the parchment [the Constitution] should be thrown into the fire at once.

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government , and to provide new Guards for their future security. ...--The Declaration of Independence
- Wrong, monetizing failures causes more. Japan showed us this for decades. But hey, Chairman Obama thinks you can fix a problem DECADES in the making with a quick fixer-upper, he is screwed in the head.
- The complaints are with the Federal government (in general) since Breton Woods. The Federal Government and Obama's minions STILL didn't listen to David Walker, a Clinton appointee and former head of the GAO. This isn't about political parties anymore morons!
- Show me a single federal budget that was less than the previous. If this $3.6T budget goes, its never coming back barring systemic collapse.
- The United States Federal Government, The United States Federal Reserve, and the banks which were enabled to continue down reckless paths by a quasi government agency known as the Federal Reserve whose actions are not subject to congress and whose members are unelected. This situation is untenable and unconstitutional.
- Every inflationary road taken in history ends in collapse. Keynesian policies are widely regarded as no longer workable.
- Inflation is a tax: What ignorant tax and spenders don't take into account here is the relative percentages of people's wealth (both net and gross) and the costs of owning and maintaining houses, cars, standards of living.
- Inflation via deficit spending is going to make it such that you will be paying a lot more by percentage of your income to maintain a given standard of living. Obama's arguments are so poorly thought out and seek to blame "Republicans" for the mess, its really simply laughable - the needs cleanup now, not worsening.
- You can't spend your way out of a hole if the creditors (e.g. China) start telling the USA they won't buy. It is that simple. Now America starts to have to collateralize the debt with assets. The USA will be selling off chunks of American assets to back the new debt. One day, it may even be necessary to sell Alaska back to Russia because no one will take greenbacks to prop up a failing version of a modern Rome.
- Ah, here we go with the Matthew Lesko arguments. [lesko.com]
Interest rates were on the rise before the government stepped in with free money for everyone (the fine print of course indicate massive strings attached).
Other economies, for example, India, have the central rates set to far more reasonable/realistic rates (at the moment ~ 8+%), which is still tends to be too low, but shows that if you need someone else capital you need to pay a premium for it, and given that capital is in short supply, it would stand to reason that a premium must be charged for it.
The problem is the unrealistic growth rates of mature economies don't allow for profiting via growth projections (rather than simply earning money). So the government steps in, turns on the free money spigot, gets the interest rates for savings down in the 1-2% range while diluting the value of the whole currency in order to prop up dying companies that ran the business like a Madhoff Ponzi scheme.
- The Republicans aren't solely responsible for the crisis as Obama's minions would have you believe, congress is (no particular congress), the Executive of the US government (no particular one) and the US Federal Reserve System are all at fault.
- Fundamentally, the government is trying to fix the prices of various things to "make it all work." This pulling on the invisible hand is a fools venture. It was predicted long ago the housing collapse (and those, such as myself, in the know, wished while realizing the housing collapse coming that we were wrong for everyone's sake - but the truth is the truth) . It may be that the Austrian (von Mises) economists will ultimately be proven right.
- We are a nation of partially educated whiney grabby idiots, and we got the government that represents this. The Chinese, India and other up and coming nations will show no mercy for this arrogant abuse of our status as the world's forex reserves.
- War and asset sales will continue to be the only option for this scheme until it is corrected at the core. And to say that the government has already averted a depression by doing what they did (most of the monies injected wont be "felt" for some time), is just arrogance and stupidity. Price fixing prolonged the Great Depression. Price-fixing (or attempting to) houses will do the same, but probably worse.
- Obama's minions simply don't care if the US is bankrupted and rendered insolvent, they just want a say in how its done, presumably to "feel safe." Rather selfish.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." AND "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (Possibly Richard Jackson)

- Everyone better realize that inflation will pay a major role in funding un-fundable fantasies, wiping the savers and the middle class out. The problem is, that other countries are growing tired of making our Federal Reserve notes worth something by buying our debt as treasuries. Obama's minions talk about spending, but in order to "get what YOU want" you will sell debt to potential economic and military adversaries? Real bright. What's really sad is that despite David Walker being an authority on these issues, people refuse to even watch him and listen to what he is saying.
- On the success of Canada and its form of Socialism: A huge country like Canada with massive amounts of uranium and tar sands and natural resources and a huge land mass with a scant 30 million people is an order of magnitude less of a problem to manage than a country with 10x its population, a serious leaky southern border, backfiring aggressive foreign policy, particularly with Iran, and the US is competing with countries like India and China whose middle classes are larger than the US's entire population. The top 5 students in every Indian and Chinese primary school out numbers all the kids in primary school in the US. Canada is a idyllic island, the USA is front and center in an all out economic and political clash of ideologies.
- Cap and trade (and pollution control for solving global problems) will never work unless the top 10 countries in the world (in terms of both GDP and manufacturing capacity and population) are on board. Period end. If the world doesn't quickly move to nuclear now and fusion shortly, it is OVER possibly not if every home on the planet gets a wind vane, but that seems unlikely to happen (since its possible now).
- Keynes calls it "the paradox of thrift" and suggested that policies forcing people not to save is a "good idea." The guy wanted people spending all the time, or if he didn't, he never conveyed that to his protégés well enough for them to not do what they are doing. Right now the plebeians in the US are actually stashing cash, and everyone from Obama to the media is trying to get people to spend spend spend. The best thing for the long term is for people to prepare for the coming hell, not set out with no reserves.
- I have seen Keynes invoked to justify nearly every bad move in the past decade, and its warming up to be a potential currency collapse, the collapse of the US Treasury and Federal Reserve notes, and a collapse of the NYSE. And then they invoke Keynes to suggest the best way out of the mess is to spend out of an already near-critically debt massed black hole.
- A house is run like a town is run like a country or business is run like a state is run like a government. If there are things the government is doing that would either force your home into bankruptcy or into jail via fraud charges, then the government and banks shouldn't be operating in that fashion. A certain degree of stretchy liquidity is in order, but in terms of percent of GDP, there is no way of justifying what they US has now.
- Iceland failed at 850 percent debt to GDP. The US is at 350 and rising. It is not a good thing at all.
- What is happening to the dollar as a forex standard. [youtube.com]
- March 19, 2009 C-SPAN - "Let's Quit Destroying Our Dollar!" [youtube.com]
- HR 1207 (A bill to make the Fed more accountable and to answer questions regarding the dollar policy) [loc.gov]

Title: Obama sidetracked by fiscal mess, but presses on [yahoo.com]
"Being heard above the din may prove difficult. Lawmakers are wrangling over taxing people who got big bonuses and worrying the president's budget could generate $9.3 trillion in red ink over the next decade."
- Kremlin to pitch new global currency [infowars.com]
Russia proposes creation of global super-reserve currency

Holy crap, even the Russians and Chinese get it. Strange days are here.

Why do you hate black people? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325253)

[see subject]

Re:Why do you hate black people? JOHNNY REBEL HERE (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325325)

I'll explain why all us folks down in Dixie hate the niggers. And you Linux faggots should hate them too, because just like in real life, the niggers take welfare, cause crime and act like niggers, and in digital life the niggers don't contribute shit to opensource, maybe a few niggers here or there, but I never see any niggers on cvs, git or subversion commits. Yee haw!

Artist: Johnny Rebel Song: nigger hating me

I like sugar, and I like tea, But I don't like niggers...no siree!, There's two known things that'll make me puke, And that's a hog eatin' slop, and a big, black spook!, You know it...cause I show it, Like a barn-yard rooster I crow it!, And the NAACP, Would sure like to get a-hold of nigger-hatin' me!, Roses are red, and violet's are blue, And nigger's are black, you know that's true, But they don't mind, cause what the heck!, You gotta be black to get a welfare check!, And I'm broke...no joke, I ain't got a nickel for a coke!, And I ain't black, you see, So Uncle Sam won't help poor nigger-hatin' me., Jig-A-Boo, jig-a-boo...where are you?, I's here in the woodpile...watchin' you, Jig-A-Boo, jig-a-boo...come out!, No! Cause I'm scared of the white man's a-way down South, You know it!...cause I show it., Stick your black head out and I'll blow it!, And the NAACP, Can't keep you away from little old nigger-hatin' me!, Mirror, mirror...on the wall, Who is the blackest of them all?, A man named King, and there ain't no doubt, That he's causin' lots of trouble with his baboon mouth., Brewin'...he's a doin', It's caused by the trouble he's a-brewin', And the NAACP, Can't win if the white men stick with nigger-hatin' me!, Hey! Mr. President! What do you say?, When are we whites gonna have our day?, The nigger's had there's such a long, long time, I'm white, and it's time that I had mine!, You know it...cause I show it!, Stick your black head out and I'll blow it!, And the NAACP, Can't win if the white man sticks with nigger-hatin' me

Artist: Johnny Rebel Song: who likes a nigger

L.B.J. was a-flyin' one morn', Over south Louisiana...feeling for alarm, When he looks down below, and what does he see?, Two cajuns pullin' a nigger on ski's!, So he lands, and says, "Thanks for helping your black brother!", And them two cajuns just looked at each other, And said, "He might be smart, but I'll tell you something...", "He don't know a thing about alligator huntin'!", O-wop-bop-bam-bam, Who likes a nigger?, o-wop-bop-bam-bam
(CHORUS), Who likes a nigger?, o-wop-bop-bam-bam, Who likes a nigger?, And the hatin', everybody, is a-gettin' much bigger, Rich man travelin' down thru the South, Stopped in Mississippi to get a tooth pulled out, When he paid the doctor the charges due, He said "My nigger chauffer's got a bad tooth, too", "Well, I'll pull it...", said the doc, "but you'd better not holler!, Cause I'll have to charge you $200.00, Cause here in Mississippi he can't open his mouth, We'll have to go thru his bottom, to get the thing out!"
Chorus
There ain't much difference 'tween a nigger and a donkey, 'Bout as much between an ape and a monkey, Ones a little bigger, but you gotta agree, There's not very much more that you can see., But a mule earns his livin' by the sweat of his neck, While a nigger sits down and draws a gov't check, The nigger should be smarter, as a general rule, But in a spelling contest, I'd pick the mule!

Artist: Johnny Rebel Song: Affirmative Action

Affirmative action, what's this country coming to?, Affirmative action, what's the white man gonna do?, It's another government handout and simply said, "You've got to hire a nigger instead", I was down at the office, cleaning up the joint, Just doing a little extra, making brownie points, Cause I'd heard somebody say, a promotion's on the line, So I was working hard, I wa.nted that promotion to be mine, So I asked the CEO if I could have a try, He said "you work hard, son and I know you qualify., You're the best man for the job but it's out of my hands, I've got to give it to a nigger, courtesy of Uncle Sam", Oh affirmative action, what's this country coming to?, Affirmative action, what's the white man gonna do?, It's another government handout and simply said, "You've got to hire a nigger instead.", Now I went looking for a new job the very next day., I got an interview and things were surely going my way.., I was asked a lot of questions, I was giving it my best, My qualifications were impeccable, I could tell he was impressed, Then a nigger walked in and said, "yo, what's up, You need a man, well here I be. Say bro, you're in luck", The bossman looked at me and said "what can I do?, Uncle Sam says I've got to hire the nigger instead of you", Oh affirmative action, what's this country coming to?, Affirmative action, what's the white man gonna do?, It's another government handout and simply said, "You've got to hire the nigger instead", Now we've gotta stop what's happening to you and me., The feds have got to listen, and I'm sure you'll agree, We need to get their attention, and make them understand, I've been thinking about it lately, and I got a plan.., Oh let's act like a bunch of niggers and go out in the street., And demonstrate, and raise some hell, to everyone we meet, We'll stop taking all this crap that we have in the past., And tell Uncle Sam to stick the affirmative action up his ass., So affirmative action, what's this country coming to?, Affirmative action, what's the white man gonna do?, It's another government handout and simply said, "You've got to hire a nigger instead", Oh it's another government handout and simply said, "You've got to hire a nigger instead"

Artist: Johnny Rebel Song: Reparations

There you go again talking about reparations, There you go again talking about something else free, There you go again talking about reparations, Well listen to me nigger, you ain't getting nothing from me, You say all your ancestors were slaves, And that's the reason that you ought to get paid, You want something for nothing, you monkeys are all the same, You're putting all of the blame on the whites, We violated your civil rights, But your civil rights proven is nothing but a shakedown game., So there you go again talking about reparations, There you go again talking about something else free, There you go again talking about reparations, Well listen to me nigger, you ain't getting nothing from me, There ain't a slave still living today, So tell me why do you think we should pay?, For what we didn't do, and what didn't happen to you, You can always go back home, Where the monkeys and the baboons roam, And if you're ain't satisfied that's exactly what you ought to do., Hey there you go again talking about reparations, There you go again talking about something else free, There you go again talking about reparations, Well listen to me nigger, you ain't getting nothing from me, We don't owe you a damn thing, Man, you gotta be out of your mind, So take your reparations, And stick them where the sun don't shine, Hey there you go again talking about reparations, There you go again talking about something else free, And there you go again talking about reparations, Well listen to me nigger, you ain't getting nothing from me, We don't owe you a damn thing, Hey, you gotta be out of your mind, So take your reparations, And stick them where the sun don't shine, Hey there you go again talking about reparations, There you go again talking about something else free, There you go again talking about reparations, Well listen to me nigger, you ain't getting nothing from me, I said listen to me nigger, you ain't getting nothing from me

Artist: Johnny Rebel Song: Alabama Nigger

I'm an Alabama Nigger and I wanna be free, Hell with the N double A C P, I dont drink, I dont cuss, I wanna ride on the front of the bus, I'm an Alabama Nigger and I wanna be free, Hell with the N double A C P, I wanna eat where the white folks eat, cause I'm white on the bottom of my feet., I'm an Alabama Nigger and I wanna be free, Hell with the N double A C P, We dont screw like the white folks do, we just screw til we get through, I'm an Alabama Nigger and I wanna be free, Hell with the N double A C P, I wanna be white more and more, so i can bitch at the nigger next door, I'm an Alabama Nigger and I wanna be free, Hell with the N double A C P, I'm glad this tune came along, we done wore out one nigger song., I'm an Alabama Nigger and I wanna be free, Hell with the N double A C P, I wanna be white dont you understand, so I can play in a trashy white band, I'm an Alabama Nigger and I wanna be free, Hell with the N double A C P, I'm an Alabama Nigger and I wanna be free, Hell with the N double A C P

Artist: Johnny Rebel Title: DAMN, I WISH I WAS A NIGGER

if i was a nigger...i could drive a cadillac with class, my pocket stuffed with welfare checks, and i could sit on my big black ass, now you take a nigger, he aint nobody's fool, he doesn't buy any gasoline to drive his kids to school, damn i wish i was a nigger, our government has gone crazy, id change things if i could, if i was only a nigger, i could afford to live in a white neighborhood, oh the things that i could do, if i was black and hell bent, i could send my kids to college, and it wouldn't cost me one damn cent, damn i wish i was a nigger, the wife and i were down on our luck, we were really getting uptight, they said at the welfare office, you aint black you're white, oh how I've tried to get a job, a diploma i had with pride, the post office man laughed and said youre not dark enough to even qualify, damn i wish i was a nigger, i took a civil service exam, and passed it without shame, a nigger took one next to me, and he couldnt even write his own name, the nigger, he got the job, now he's government top ?prass?, he couldn't qualify for a trash truck, I'm out on the street on my ass, damn i wish i was a nigger, if i was a Jesse Jackson, id be nobody's slob, wearin $500.00 dollar suits, that nigger hasn't even got a job, if i was Jackson Brown, i could sit back and relax, and if elected president, could paint the white house black, damn i wish i was a nigger, if i was a jig-a-boo, i could find me my roots, with a afro big as a watermelon, and a pair of white disco boots, if i was only dark complexioned, i could stand tall in this life, i could eat high off the hog, just me and my white wife, damn i wish i was a nigger, things are supposed to be segregated, but things are a little off key, I've never seen a white man, head...of the NAACP, it aint that i don't like a nigger, if I've rubbed you wrong by chance, take a look at that mistletoe, hanging on the seat of my pants, damn i wish i was a nigger, if i was a kinky top, i could be a Martin Luther King, id have me a vision on a mountain top, my song the whole world would sing, i could have me a peace march, on the streets of Memphis, Tennessee, i could tare up the whole damn city, and the police wouldn't dare stop me, damn i wish i was a nigger, a lot of things in life i know, but one thing i cant figure, why a nigger can call me a honkey, and i cant call a nigger a nigger, if i was a jungle bunny, i could ring a golden bell, i could be a Mohammed Ali, and be loved by Howard Coozell, damn i wish i was a nigger, if i was a you-bangy, 7 foot tall and lean, i could be a famous player, on the Washington basketball team, if i was only chocolate brown, i could have me some turnip greens, a possum fat an watermelon, chitlens and a pot of butter beans, damn i wish i was a nigger, now when Martin Luther King, was buried in Washington with class, face down in his box, so the politicians could kiss his ass, i guess its just politics, and it sure gets my goat, kiss assin with a nigger, just to get his vote, damn i wish i was a nigger, if i was only a ?birdhead?, id live high on the hill, sellin cocaine and prostitutes, and poppin all kinds of pills, now take the NAACP, they can march and raise all kinds of hell, let the KKK start to move, and they'll all wind up in jail, damn i wish i was a nigger, i dreamed my life was over, i heard saint peter say, today we're taken on the niggers, you've gotta go the..other way, then i heard the devil, he said i heard what peter had to say, but I'm sorry to tell you son, today in hell...is nigger day, damn don't you wish you were a nigger, I'm going back to the hills of Arkansas, where they don't have those not damn one sided nigger peace marches, protesters, welfare check grabbers, I'm gon' plant me some turnip greens in a watermelon patch, raise me a hog, and a big fat possum, i said yes i am your mother

Artist: Johnny Rebel Title: If I Could Be A Nigger For A Day

Hello, I'm Johnny Rebel. For a long time we've listened to these niggers pitch a fit, 'bout their hard times, and civil rights. Well, ain't that the pits? So I think I'll take me an imaginary trip, and try to be a nigger for a day., If I could be a nigger for a day, I could live my life the free and easy way, I'd take from Uncle Sam and let the white man pay, If I could be a nigger for a day, Now for one whole day, a nigger I could be, The first thing I'd do is join the NAACP, And I'd let Fwyzee and Foo-May do my thinkin' for me, If I could be a nigger for a day, Now I wouldn't wanna work, 'cause I wouldn't have to, Guess what I'd do next, well, you shouldn't need a clue, I'd go down to social services like all the brothers do, If I could be a nigger for a day, Oh if I could be a nigger for a day, I could live my life the free and easy way, I'd take from Uncle Sam and let the white man pay, If I could be a nigger for a day, Now when I'd sit down in that office, the office of welfare, I'd get food stamps, a medical card, and free child care, For all the illegitimate kids that I've got scattered everywhere, If I could be a nigger for a day, Now I'd have plenty of time, so I'd hang out with a mob, And I'd consume a little dope, or find a good place to rob, Now that would make me self-employed and I wouldn't even need a job, If I could be a nigger for a day, Oh if I could be a nigger for a day, I could live my life the free and easy way, I'd take from Uncle Sam and let the white man pay, If I could be a nigger for a day, And when I'd need somethin' I'd steal it so I wouldn't have to buy it, And if the cops would apprehend me you know that I'd deny it, And I could call Jesse or Al, they'd come and start a riot, If I could be a nigger for a day, But I can't be a nigger, and I don't really have to be, 'Cause coon, let me tell ya, it's plain and simple to see, That if I was you for a day then I'd be taking from me, So I don't wanna be a nigger for a day, I don't wanna be a nigger for a day, I don't wanna live the free and easy way, I'll struggle long, and struggle hard, but that's okay, 'Cause I'll never be a nigger for a day, No, I'll never be a nigger for a day

Artist: Johnny Rebel Title: In Coontown

If you smell somethin' funny when you walk down the street, You're in Coontown, You look and see garbage all over the street, You're in Coontown, Up and down the street there ain't nothin' but trash, Nigger girls tryin' to get a nigger boy's cash, Then you even see a spook with a big moustache, In Coontown, On the corner there's a nigger with a drink in his hand, That's Coontown, Tryin' to bum a nickel from whoever he can, In Coontown, And don't be suprised, you can make a bet, If you go back tomorrow he'll be there yet, He's tryin' to get drunk, and drunk he's gonna get, In Coontown, Niggers never bother 'bout goin' to work, In Coontown, They seem to think that work is for jerks, Outta Coontown, He don't do nothin' but sleep and doze, He don't wake until his eyes are tired of bein' closed, It's half a day's work for him to scratch his toes, In Coontown, It amazes me to see the way they live, In Coontown, They do all the takin' while we have to give, To Coontown, The white man worries the nigger don't care, 'Cause at the end of the month his check'll be there, Every nigger earns his livin' off the old welfare, In Coontown, Every nigger earns his livin' off the old welfare, In Coontown,

Artist: Johnny Rebel Title: It's The Attitude, Stupid

It ain't the big lips, It ain't the nose, It ain't your kinky hair, Or your clothes, It ain't your dreadlocks hangin', Or the way that you walk, It ain't the smell, It ain't the black, White people might probably, Learn a little bit better, But if you wanna know nigger, I'll tell ya what pisses us off, It's the attitude stupid, It's what's inside your brain, It's the attitude stupid, Ain't you ever gonna change, You keep thinkin' everything, Is black and white, Don't you know the difference, 'Tween wrong and right, It's the attitude stupid, We don't owe you a thing, It ain't your looks, And that's a fact, It ain't your ass, Ridin' up on your back, It ain't the way you say "argh-a", When you spell out a word, It's the things you say, And you do, Thinkin' white people, Still owe somethin' to you, Well listen to me nigger, This is somethin' you've never heard, It's the attitude stupid, It's what's inside your brain, It's the attitude stupid, Ain't you ever gonna change, You keep thinkin' everything, Is black and white, Don't you know the difference, 'Tween wrong and right, It's the attitude stupid, We don't owe you a thing, It's the attitude stupid, We don't owe you a thing

Artist: Johnny Rebel Title: Jesse Showed Up

Grocery store, Three niggers inside, The store ain't open, It's the middle of the night, Alarm goes off, The cops show up, They caught 'em red-handed, Put 'em in handcuffs, And then..., And then..., And then..., And then..., Jesse showed up, Jesse showed up, Wouldn't you know it, Jesse Jackson showed up, He had a bunch of porch monkeys, Praisin' his name, While he preached and he hollered, And he passed the blame, And said:, "Them niggers wasn't stealin' when they got caught. They was only doin' some shoppin' just like I thought. White man should never store there it's all his fault.", And they all got excited, When Jesse showed up, Election time, A new president, Al Gore never wins, So the niggers all went, The checks were counted, And counted again, They counted three times, But they still didn't win, And then..., And then..., And then..., And then..., Jesse showed up, Jesse showed up, Wouldn't you know it, Jesse Jackson showed up, He had a bunch of porch monkeys, Praisin' his name, While he preached and he hollered, And he passed the blame, And said:, "Listen you niggers I think we've been had. If we lose this election it's gonna be bad. And it's the white man's fault 'cause he stole all the checks.", And they all got excited, When Jesse showed up, Something's gonna happen, One of these days, If Jesse Jackson don't start, Mendin' his ways, He's gonna keep stirrin', The niggers up, 'Til the white man says, Enough is enough, And then..., And then..., And then..., And then..., The Klan'll show up, The Klan'll show up, All dressed in white, They're gonna show up, He's gonna be sorry, For struttin' his stuff, Hell's gonna break loose, When the Klan shows up, And they'll say:, "Jackson, what do you mean causin' all this trouble? It's up yours nigger, we gonna pop your bubble. We gonna break it off in ya, and stick it in double.", So just watch yourself Jesse, When this Klan shows up, You'd better watch yourself Jesse, When the Klan shows up,

Artist: Johnny Rebel Title: Kajun Ku Klux Klan

You niggers listen now, I'm gonna tell you how, To keep from getting torchered, When the Klan is on the prowl, Stay at home at night, And lock your doors up tight, Don't go outside or else you'll find, Those crosses-a-burnin' bright, Now I know you won't believe me, So I'm gonna tell you why, The Kajun Ku Klux Klan, Is gonna get you by and by, I'm warnin' you that when I'm through, You're gonna change your tune, This story's 'bout a nigger, His name was Levi Coon, He walked into a cafe, He thought he'd get a bite, He thought that they would serve him, Since they passed the civil rights, The waitress told him no, And that he'd better go, He said, "No ma'am, my Uncle Sam say, I don't have to go.", So he sat there in that cafe, Bein' stubborn as a mule, No matter what she said, He wouldn't get up off that stool, He sat there like a jackass, Said, "I'm gonna demonstarate., I came in here to eat, and, I ain't leavin' 'til I've ate.", The waitess had enough, She said, "I'll call your bluff.", She said, "If we can't treat you right, We'll have to treat you rough.", The phone was in her hands, She gave him one more chance, He wouldn't go, and so she called, The Kajun Ku Klux Klan, When he saw them cajuns comin', Levi knew it was too late, His eyes popped out his head, And his kinky hair got straight, He said, "Oh lousy white folks, I didn't mean a thing., Why did I have to listen, To that demonstrator King?", Now niggers understand, They tied up both his hands, He was at the mercy of, The Kajun Ku Klux Klan, I knew just what they'd do, Levi knew it too, I knew what kind of torture, They would put that nigger through, Now the moral of this story, As plain as it can be, Niggers mind your business, And let us white folks be, You'd better heed my warnin', And try to understand, Don't you demonstrate, Around the Kajun Ku Klux Klan

Artist: Johnny Rebel Title: Keep Workin' Big Jim

Keep a-workin' Big Jim, You'll prove it by and by, Keep a-workin' Big Jim, Find out the reasons why, A few years ago,in the year of '63, A President was shot-he died, And the man accused of killing him was shot to death, Before he was even tried, Then the Warren Commission,made up of what should be, The greatest lawmen of our time, Wrapped up the case,and said the assassination, Was the work of one warped mind, Keep a-workin' Big Jim, We hope you prove they're wrong, Keep a-workin' Big Jim, We're with you all day long, In a shorter time than it takes to solve a simple theft case, They said they solved the crime of our time, Oswald was the man,they said he worked it all alone, No one conspired with him to plan the crime, Big Jim Garrison,a lawyer from New Orleans, Didn't think the case was really solved, In his investigation,he's come up with a lot, He's gonna prove somebody else was involved, Keep a-workin' Big Jim, We wanna know the truth, Keep a-workin' Big Jim, The nation's watching you, Now wouldn't it be something if the Warren Report, Turned out to be just a lie, And one big man who was working all alone, Found the answers and the reasons why, And the so-called leaders of the government, Who won't try to help him win the fight, It seems they're more afraid that Jim will prove them wrong, Instead of hoping Big Jim's right,
Johnny Rebel - Lookin' For A Handout

Have you ever been just drivin' around, and ended up in the colored part of town? And you see an old-time wanderoo Jack with a great big T.V. antenna. Then you look out in the back, you can always see a Cadillac. And inside there's about fifteen niggers eatin' one can of beans for dinner. Now ain't that just like a nigger, so the story goes. They just like to live that-a-way, you know? Why, they haven't got one spark of ambition in their minds. They're hard-headed as a dad-blamed mule, and the only reason they go to school is so they can learn to sign their names when they become members of the welfare line., They're lookin' for a handout, To get somethin' free, Lookin' for a handout, From you and me, And with the consent, Of the president, They're gonna get their way, They're gonna get their way, Now I ain't aimin' to run anybody down, but I know how they operate down in Coontown. Why, they wouldn't hit a lick at a snake if it was curly enough to strike. But when their leader says, "Hey nigger, demonstrate", why, them jigaboos don't even hesitate. 'Cause as a nigger says, "Uhh, hmm, uhh...them's the kind of happenin' we likes.", They're lookin' for a handout, To get somethin' free, Lookin' for a handout, From you and me, And with the consent, Of the president, They're gonna get their way, They're gonna get their way, But one day there's gonna be a stop to all this givin', and darkies you gonna have to account for your livin'. You won't be able to hold your black hand out and wait for somebody to give you your daily bread. 'Cause the master said you'll have to earn your salvation, so you'd better start lookin' over the situation, and stop causin' all this trouble, and be a good 'ol nigger instead., And quit lookin' for a handout, To get somethin' fee, Quit lookin' for a handout, From Uncle Sam and me, Don't try to integrate, Be glad to segregate, It's better that way, Much better that way, It's better that way-ay-ay-ay-a-a-ay-a-a-ay-ay
Johnny Rebel - Move Them Niggers North

Move them niggers north, Move them niggers north, If they don't like our southern ways then, Move them niggers north, Our South has been invaded by, Trashy-lookin' crew, They'll change our ways and take our schools, Away from me and you, It's time for us to make a stand, To keep our southern ways, We've got to give a helping hand, It's unity that pays, Move them niggers north, Move them niggers north, If they don't like our southern ways then, Move them niggers north, They're trying to start trouble, By mixing up the races, They feel a whole lot better off, By staying in their places, I like our South, man, the way it is, I'm sure that you do too, Oh, Martin Luther thinks it's his, I know he's wrong, don't you?, Move them niggers north, Move them niggers north, If they don't like our southern ways then, Move them niggers north, It's time for us to make a stand, To keep our southern ways, We've got to give a helping hand, It's unity that pays, Move them niggers north, Move them niggers north, If they don't like our southern ways then, Move them niggers north, (Move them niggers north), (Move them niggers north), (Move them niggers north)
Johnny Rebel - Nigger, Nigger

Nigger, nigger, Tellin' lies, Black face and bloodshot eyes, Crooked toes and crooked nose, That's the way a nigger goes, (That's how he goes), They're marching for equality, They'll never be as good as me, We won't let them integrate, We must only segragate, (Keep 'em in their places), Nigger, nigger, Tellin' lies, Black face and bloodshot eyes, Crooked toes and crooked nose, That's the way a nigger goes, Oh, Martin Luther's got to go, That's one thing that we all know, We'll take him ridin' on a rail, And lock him in the county jail, Niggers want to change our ways, But taxes they won't ever pay, Monkey lips and kinky hair, Living off that old welfare, (Got their handout), They might as well give up the fight, No federal judge can make them white, The job is up to you and me, Let's beat the NAACP, (Move 'em north), Nigger, nigger, Tellin' lies, Black face and bloodshot eyes, Crooked toes and crooked nose, That's the way a nigger goes, That's the way a nigger goes, That's the way a nigger goes, That's the way a nigger goes,
Johnny Rebel - Nigger-In-Law

The other day I ran into an old friend, Joe was his name, So I said, "Joe, how ya been?", He said, "JR, you won't believe this, but things ain't worth a damn.", And I said, "Joe, what's the problem?', He said "JR, you wanna know my problem? Well, I'll tell ya my problem.", And he began his story, something like this:, All my life I've been single, I didn't wanna be tied down, But I finally did it, I finally got married, And the chants started goin' around, She was divorced and had three kids, They all had fair skin and blonde hair, But I didn't know their daddy was a nigger, And daddy just had to be there, Awwwww..., What do you do when, Everything's messed up, Stickin' down in your crawl, Other men lucky, All they have to aggitate 'em, Is a dog-gone, Mother-in-law, But this black hairy dude, Livin' down at my house, Beats all you ever saw, I'm the sole-bred winner, Of a wife and three, Bakin' ninnies, And a nigger-in-law, And he kept on-a-talkin', And I just kept on listenin', And he went on, something like this:, It all started last friday evenin', I got home from work, there he sat, Sittin' there loafin', restin' and-a-smokin', Man, he was ace of spades black, I didn't know just who he was then, But it wasn't too long 'til I did, He said, "Don't get uptight, I have visitin' rights., I came to see your wife and my kids.", Awwwww..., What do you do when, Everything's messed up, Stickin' down in your crawl, Other men lucky, All they have to aggitate 'em, Is a dog-gone, Mother-in-law, But this black hairy dude, Livin' down at my house, Beats all you ever saw, I'm the sole-bred winner, Of a wife and three, Bakin' ninnies, And a nigger-in-law, But he talked on, and I began to figure out, That Joe had found a solution, He said:, He was still there saturday evenin', Just-a-watchin' me mow the lawn, He watched the game on sunday and the soaps on monday, It's tuesday and he still wasn't gone, Suddenly I got me an idea, And I came up with a plan, I turned my nigger-loving wife and her nigger ex-husband, Over to the Ku Klux Klan, Hehe..., That's what you do, When everything's messed up, Stickin' down in your crawl, Never again will I, Ever say a word, About anybody's, Mother-in-law, That nigger ho'ed up, When the Klan showed up, It's the last thing he ever saw, Now I'm the ex-husband, Of a wife with three, Bakin' ninnies, And a nigger-in-law, I'm the proud ex-husband, Of a wife with three, Bakin' ninnies, And a nigger-in-law
Johnny Rebel - Niggers Suck!

Well I don't know why the sky is blue, And why the gums on a nigger well they're blue too, I don't pay attention to all that stuff, But I do know niggers suck, And I don't know why the world ain't flat, And why the nose on a nigger is flat like that, I don't pay attention to all that stuff, But I do know niggers suck, I don't know, I don't wanna know, Why a jigaboo's lips are thick, But I sure know that, A nigger ain't worth a lick, And I don't know, I don't wanna know, Why a nigger ain't got no pride, But I know them coons are never, No, they're never satisfied, Well I don't know why the rain comes down, I don't know why a nigger is black or brown, I don't pay attention to all that stuff, I do know niggers suck, Well I don't know why nigger stinks, I don't know why jigaboo's hair has kinks, I don't pay attention to all that stuff, I do know niggers suck, I don't know why night turns to day, And why a nigger won't work to earn his way, I don't pay attention to all that stuff, But I do know niggers suck, I don't know, I don't wanna know, Why a jigaboo's lips are thick, But I sure know that, A nigger ain't worth a lick, And I don't know, I don't wanna know, Why a nigger ain't got no pride, But I know them coons are never, No, they're never satisfied, I don't know why a nigger is kin to an ape, I don't know why spooks wanna integrate, I don't pay attention to all that stuff, But I do know niggers suck, I do know niggers suck, Hey, I do know niggers suck
Johnny Rebel - No Niggers In Our Schools
No we don't want niggers in our schools, We're not for immigration, Keep those niggers in their place, We'll have a better nation, Our southland got along just fine, Until those immigrators, Came down here sturring up a mess, With outside aggitators, They'll march, sit in and demonstrate, And try to take our schools, They want to change our southern way, With a brand new set of rules, No we don't want niggers in our schools, We're not for immigration, Keep those niggers in their place, We'll have a better nation, We must prove to martin luther, We stand for what is right, No court, or left-wing liberals, Can ever make him white, Form a solid line of white men, Conservatives we'll be, They'll never ever overcome, Our schools will still be free, No we don't want niggers in our schools, We're not for immigration, Keep those niggers in their place, We'll have a better nation, We must prove to martin luther, We stand for what is right, No court, or left-wing liberals, Can ever make him white, Form a solid line of white men, Conservatives we'll be, They'll never ever overcome, Our schools will still be free, No we don't want niggers in our schools, We're not for immigration, Keep those niggers in their place, We'll have a better nation
Johnny Rebel - Quit Your Bitchin' Nigger!

Quit your bitchin' nigger and just let things be, You're messin' up big time take it from me, Quit your bitchin' nigger or you'll get your due, 'Cause the Ku Klux Klan will come-a-callin' on you, For forty-somethin' years you've been raisin' all hell, And niggers that ain't enough, We're all gettin' mighty fed up with you, And all of your civil rights stuff, Don't you love this country, either you do or you don't, If you ain't happy, then what the hell do you want, Hey quit your bitchin' niggers and just let things be, You're messin' up big time take it from me, Quit your bitchin' nigger or you'll get your due, 'Cause the Ku Klux Klan will come-a-callin' on you, You got money and jobs and your equal rights, Given by the government, You got welfare, food stamps, a medical card, And sometimes a little free rent, You just keep begging, takin' everything we've got, Well damn you nigger, don't you think it's time to stop, So quit your bitchin' niggers and just let things be, You're messin' up big time take it from me, Quit your bitchin' nigger or you'll get your due, 'Cause the Ku Klux Klan will come-a-callin' on you, Lately you're yelling 'bout our rebel flag, Wantin' us to take it down, It represents our history and southern pride, And rebel blood on the grass, So go to hell nigger, I'm tellin' ya loud and clear, It ain't comin' down, the rebel flag is stayin' right here, Hey quit your bitchin' niggers and just let things be, You're messin' up big time take it from me, Quit your bitchin' nigger or you'll get your due, 'Cause the Ku Klux Klan will come-a-callin' on you, 'Cause the Ku Klux Klan will come-a-callin' on you
Johnny Rebel - Reparations

There you go again talking about reparations, There you go again talking about something else free, There you go again talking about reparations, Well listen to me nigger, you ain't getting nothing from me,, You say all your ancestors were slaves, And that's the reason that you ought to get paid, You want something for nothing, you monkeys are all the same, You're putting all of the blame on the whites, We violated your civil rights, But your civil rights proven is nothing but a shakedown game.,, So there you go again talking about reparations, There you go again talking about something else free, There you go again talking about reparations, Well listen to me nigger, you ain't getting nothing from me,, There ain't a slave still living today, So tell me why do you think we should pay?, For what we didn't do, and what didn't happen to you, You can always go back home, Where the monkeys and the baboons roam, And if you're ain't satisfied that's exactly what you ought to do.,, Hey there you go again talking about reparations, There you go again talking about something else free, There you go again talking about reparations, Well listen to me nigger, you ain't getting nothing from me,, We don't owe you a damn thing, Man, you gotta be out of your mind, So take your reparations, And stick them where the sun don't shine,, Hey there you go again talking about reparations, There you go again talking about something else free, And there you go again talking about reparations, Well listen to me nigger, you ain't getting nothing from me,, We don't owe you a damn thing, Hey, you gotta be out of your mind, So take your reparations, And stick them where the sun don't shine,, Hey there you go again talking about reparations, There you go again talking about something else free, There you go again talking about reparations, Well listen to me nigger, you ain't getting nothing from me, I said listen to me nigger, you ain't getting nothing from me
Johnny Rebel - Send 'Em All Back To Africa

We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, Where they belong, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, They oughta get the hell out of America, And leave the white man alone, They don't like this, they don't like that, They're never satisfied and that's a fact, They more we give, the more they take, The more we fix, the more they break, The country's in an awful mess, With a whole lotta civil unrest, I got one thing to suggest, They outta leave, and get gone, Gather up all the niggers, And go back home, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, Where they belong, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, They oughta get the hell out of America, And leave the white man alone, They want their way, it ain't no doubt, They just keep pushin', they never stop, They don't like the way things are done, They outta go back to where they come from, So white people I'm askin' you, Let's buy us a boat or two, And here's what we need to do, Help 'em pack, and be kind, Make sure we don't leave, One nigger behind, And send 'em all back to Africa, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, Where they belong, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, They oughta get the hell out of America, And leave the white man alone, Life in America would be so great, Without niggers here to demonstrate, 'Bout this, and that, and that, and this, And you, and me, and gettin' things free, Won't you listen to me?, Let's send 'em all back to Africa, Send 'em all back to Africa, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, Where they belong, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, We oughta send 'em all back to Africa, They oughta get the hell out of America, And leave the white man alone, They oughta get the hell out of America, And leave the white man alone
Johnny Rebel - Ship Those Niggers Back

Ring that bell, shout for joy, white man's day is here, Gather all those equals up and herd them on the pier, America's for whites, Africa's for blacks, Send those apes back to the trees, ship those niggers back, Ring that bell, shout for joy, white man's day is here, Twenty million ugly coons are ready on the pier, "Hey there man, I ain't gettin' in that boat, looks like that boat's leakin' to me, man," (whack!) "Ooooh yes, White Man, here I come!", America's for whites, Africa's for blacks, Send those apes back to the trees, ship those niggers back, Ring that bell, shout for joy, white man's day is here, Boats are ready for the trip, we won't shed a tear, "You actin' like you don't love us nice colored folks any more," (whack!) "Ahhh! Ahhh, White Man brought us from Africa, your fault!", America's for whites, Africa's for blacks, Send those apes back to the trees, ship those niggers back, Ring that bell, shout for joy, white man's day is here, Hand that chimp his ugly stick, hand that buck his spear, "Hold on there man, I've left my bottle of wine back there on the dock," (whack!) "Ahhh! Oww, man!", America's for whites, Africa's for blacks, Send those apes back to the trees, ship those niggers back, Ring that bell, shout for joy, white man's day is here, Twenty million jigaboos, to Africa we'll steer, "How we gonna find Africa man, we ain't got no compass, how we gonna find that island, man," (whack!) "Ahhhh! Ahhhhhhhhh!", America's for whites, Africa's for blacks, Send those apes back to the trees, ship those niggers back, Ring that bell, shout for joy, white man's day is here, There they go far out to sea, see them disappear, "Hello, hello back there on the dock, I believe this boat is leakin' man.", America's for whites, Africa's for blacks, Send those apes back to the trees, ship those niggers back, Ring that bell, shout for joy, white man's day is here, Boats are leaking badly now, they sink, we've settled here, "Help! Help, we're sinking! Gggglllluggggg...", America's for whites, Africa's for blacks, Send those apes back to the trees, ship those niggers back, Ring that bell, shout for joy, white man's day is here, No more nigger civil rights led by nigger queers, America's for whites, Africa's for blacks, Send those apes back to the trees, ship those niggers back, Ring that bell, shout for joy, white man's day is here, Our homes, our schools, our city streets of niggers will be clear, America's for whites, Africa's for blacks, Send those apes back to the trees, ship those niggers back, Ring that bell, shout for joy, white man's day is here, America will be all white, the land we love so dear, America's for whites, Africa's for blacks, Send those apes back to the trees, ship those niggers back, Ship those niggers back, Ship those niggers back

Johnny Rebel - Some Niggers Never Die (They Just Smell That Way)

The other day I took a fishin' trip, Just me and my boat, and no Banjo lip, Banjo was my guide, an old colored feller, He wasn't very dark, he was a high-steppin' yeller, So we launched my boat, and I cranked my motor, And up to my nose came a terrible odor, I looked around, tryin' to find somethin' dead, But it was Banjo with his arm up, scratchin' his head, Some niggers never die, They just smell that way, Now the more he'd scratch, the more he'd sweat, And I'm here to say he was-a-chokin' me to death, So we loaded up, I just couldn't go on, And I coughed and I gagged, all the way home, When I dropped him off, I was next to dine, My nose was-a-runnin, and my eyes were-a-cryin', The smell scorched the hair right out of my nose, When I got home I had to burn all my clothes, Some niggers never die, They just smell that way, I recooperated quick, I was thankful for that, I was only in bed for a week and a half, The very first day I was up on my feet, I went to the supermarket, down the street, I shopped all around, and I filled out my order, My groceries were bagged by a fat nigger porter, The air conditioner was broke and I was ferocious, 'Cause it was hot and that nigger was-a-sweatin' on my groceries, Some niggers never die, They just smell that way, The vegetables and greens I bought started wilting, My blood pressure rose, and that could've killed me, I was gonna smash him all over that place, But he raised up his arm, and I fell on my face, Now I'm here in the hospital and at the ceiling I stare, I coulda whipped that nigger, 'cept he used germ warfare, So from now on I'll carry a long, long stick, 'Cause if I can keep from the smell, then I'll have 'em licked, Some niggers never die, They just smell that way

Johnny Rebel - Stay Away From Dixie

Well lately niggers are runnin' their mouths, Sayin' they're gonna take over the South, Jigaboo-here's to you, If you can, try it man, 'Cause Dixieland will never be free, To a nigger and the NAACP, Stay away, stay away, Stay away, from Dixieland, 'Cause we're proud of our Dixie, Hooray, hooray, We'll fight again this time we'll win, We've lived, we'll die in Dixie, Stay away, stay away, You don't belong in Dixie, Stay away, stay away, You don't belong in Dixie, In the Civil War a lot of men died, That's not enough, they ain't satisfied, They integrate, demonstarate, Shout and sing, for Mr. King, 'Cause Mr. King is-a-gonna lose out, When the northern states unite with the South, Watch the fun, when it's done, 'Cause they'll run, from Dixieland, 'Cause we're proud of our Dixie, Hooray, hooray, We'll fight again this time we'll win, We've lived, we'll die in Dixie, Stay away, stay away, You don't belong in Dixie, Stay away, stay away, You don't belong in Dixie, They've yelled "black power" in Alabama, Even demonstratin' in Louisiana, What a shame, they're to blame, 'Cause they came, to Dixieland, Up in the North big trouble they've brewed, In Chicago town and Cicero too, Let's unite, Yankeeland, Come on fight, with Dixieland, 'Cause we're proud of our Dixie, Hooray, hooray, We'll fight again this time we'll win, We've lived, we'll die in Dixie, Stay away, stay away, You don't belong in Dixie, Stay away, stay away, You don't belong in Dixie

Johnny Rebel - Still Lookin' For A Handout

Not so long ago I wrote a little song and much to my suprise before very long, Lookin' For A Handout was sittin' on top of the segregation hit parade. So the nigger population keeps gettin' bigger and since I got my first break by singin' about niggers, I'll just sing two or three more verses and see if I can double up on the friends I've made. Now we've all heard of the NAACP. They say they're gonna make all them niggers free. What they mean is they're lookin' for someone to earn it, bring it in their house, put it on the table, and feed 'em. 'Cause their idea of freedom ain't bein' free. It seems they're more interested in gettin' it free. And me and my family and every other white man and his family could go for that kind of freedom., Still lookin' for a handout, Things are still the same, Still lookin' for a handout, Not a thing has changed, While they're on welfare, They haven't got a care, 'Cause they like it that way, They like it that way, My mother used to say, "Son, a livin' comes hard, and you ain't gonna make it by sittin' in the yard. You just can't sit around like a nigger, you had to get up off and hustled yourself a job." And after all these years I find this true, and I sit and wonder like most white men do. Who in the world is feedin' them jungle bunnies while they're demonstratin', causin' riots, and formin' mobs?, Still lookin' for a handout, Things are still the same, Still lookin' for a handout, Not a thing has changed, While they're on welfare, They haven't got a care, They like it that way, They like it that way, Now my suggestion to their problem of bein' free is goin' back to Africa and be cannibals like they used to be. And they can spend the rest of their lives eatin' each other, throwin' coconuts, and swingin' from a tree. Or they can stay here and be our friends, and still be free like they've always been. And start earnin' their own way of life, and stop dependin' on you and me, Still lookin' for a handout, Things are still the same, Still lookin' for a handout, They outta be ashamed, But like I said before, They keep-a-wantin' more, They like it that way, They like it that way, They like it that way-ay-ay-ay-a-a-ay-a-a-ay-ay

Johnny Rebel - Who Likes A Nigger

L.B.J. was a-flyin' one morn', Over south Louisiana...feeling forlorn, When he looks down below, and what does he see?, Two cajuns pullin' a nigger on ski's!, So he lands, and says, "Thanks for helping your black brother!", And them two cajuns just looked at each other, And said, "He might be smart, but I'll tell you something...", "He don't know a thing about alligator huntin'!", O-wop-bop-bam-bam, Who likes a nigger?, o-wop-bop-bam-bam (CHORUS), Who likes a nigger?, o-wop-bop-bam-bam, Who likes a nigger?, And the hatin', everybody, is a-gettin' much bigger, Rich man travelin' down thru the South, Stopped in Mississippi to get a tooth pulled out, When he paid the doctor the charges due, He said "My nigger chauffer's got a bad tooth, too", "Well, I'll pull it...", said the doc, "but you'd better not holler!, Cause I'll have to charge you $200.00, Cause here in Mississippi he can't open his mouth, We'll have to go thru his bottom, to get the thing out!", Chorus, There ain't much difference 'tween a nigger and a donkey, 'Bout as much between an ape and a monkey, Ones a little bigger, but you gotta agree, There's not very much more that you can see., But a mule earns his livin' by the sweat of his neck, While a nigger sits down and draws a gov't check, The nigger should be smarter, as a general rule, But in a spelling contest, I'd pick the mule!

Easy fix (5, Insightful)

bingbong (115802) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325165)

Offline and offsite storage (i.e. iron mountain) is a simple (though sometimes costly) way of doing things.

it'll solve this problem quite easily.

Re:Easy fix (4, Interesting)

QuantumRiff (120817) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325243)

Even easier.. put a external HD with Truecrypt under your bed. Maybe take a second one into the office, Lock it in a drawer, just in case your house burns down..

Every week or so, use 1 to backup. Alternate which one. Add more drives, or more often backups until you get to the point you sleep easy at night.

Re:Easy fix (1)

Architect_sasyr (938685) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325517)

Why not just start with the simple stuff:

iptables -A INPUT -s $SITERANGE -j ACCEPT
iptables -A INPUT -s $OFFICEGW -j ACCEPT
iptables -A INPUT -j DROP

I don't see why my offsite backup solution should be such an issue - it is just a bunch of windows servers sitting behind an OpenBSD firewall with pretty much exactly those kinds of rules loaded into it (more restrictions on ports etc.). Also, if I screwed up those iptables, see sig ;)

Re:Easy fix (1)

seifried (12921) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325527)

Great so I lose up to 2 weeks of work. Unless you're a small business with paper backups or something that won't fly to well.

Re:Easy fix (0, Flamebait)

morcego (260031) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326637)

I'm sorry, but however recommends using an HD as a backup solution, shouldn't be talking about backup.

HDs are NOT backup media.

If you want to encrypt your tape backups, you can use openssl, pgp or several other solution for it. I have opeessl encrypted backups on one of my sites, and they work great.

Re:Easy fix (4, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327407)

HDs are NOT backup media.

Please provide a citation that hard disks are noticeably worse than tape, which you appear to otherwise recommend.

Re:Easy fix (1)

wisty (1335733) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327737)

Hard drives are cheaper per G, and have been since 2002. Hard drives do fail, but usually due to impacts, or while in use.

It's like all those people who insist that putting objects in RAM will be slower than a "real" database...

Re:Easy fix (4, Insightful)

QuantumRiff (120817) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327485)

No, they are not, you are correct. In my post, I was assuming that this was a small website or business, not a mission critical company product. I didn't mention software, or tape libraries, or hot backups. I think sometimes its better to have some backups, then none at all. An external drive can be bought for next to nothing.. really, I can get a 500GB HD for about the cost of a couple of tapes, but then I have to buy 2 tape drives (in case one has hardware failure).

Believe me, I could go on about backup windows, media, and techniques, but was hoping by keeping it simple, they would not be overwhelmed. By not being overwhelmed, they might start the process.

Also, by not using a computer based backup, they would not have the same problem as the site mentioned in the linked article, where someone first cracked their backup servers, and deleted their only backups.

Re:Easy fix (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327151)

Just don't use Maxtor drives if you actually want to be able to retrieve your data at any point.

Where I used to work we had 6 dead Maxtor drives in as many months. Luckily this was spread across 3 servers which had 4 backup drives each but it certainly taught a lesson that some hard drive manufacturers are less than reliable.

It's probably also worth pointing out we had some Seagate drives bought at a different time, stored along with all the Maxtor drives and used in the same way without a problem, so it didn't seem to be anything we were doing, but then this was also around the time that Maxtor were dropping their warranty to 1 year from 3 years whilst Seagate was upping theres to 5 years from 3 years which speaks volumes.

The moral of the story is though, always check your backup media regularly too, and don't rely on just one or two backup drives if your data really is that important.

Re:Easy fix (1)

travisb828 (1002754) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325451)

Until an email is sent to the data center distro list asking if someone has seen one of the iron mountain containers that usually end up being found in a closet or something. But a lost box of tapes is easier to deal with then data sitting on a hard drive connected to the rest of the world.

Re:Easy fix (1)

DaveDerrick (1070132) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326885)

Always done it, always will. Good advice.

Tachikoma (5, Insightful)

Anenome (1250374) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325179)

Take a lesson from Ghost in the Shell, hire digital Tachikoma to protect you :) Problem solved!

Re:Tachikoma (2, Funny)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325705)

Those Tachikoma will do what ever it takes, especially once they gain individuality.

Re:Tachikoma (2, Informative)

KahabutDieDrake (1515139) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325881)

Once they gain individuality, they tend to kill themselves in spectacular ways. I'd prefer a security system that didn't self destruct on top of the intruder, at least assuming there was another option.

Re:Tachikoma (1)

228e2 (934443) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327217)

aye, but what kind of security system will work for you even after you choose to get rid of it? I kinda like the idea of a security guard that will take a bullet for ma after i've fired him.

See also: The classic answer to computer problems (5, Funny)

dmomo (256005) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325195)

>>What sort of security do you put on your backup infrastructure?

It depends.

I guess it depends how valuable the data is, how current it needs to be. Does it need to be kept secret or simply kept uncorrupted? How fast do you need to access these backups. The harder for you, potentially the more secure.

For starters let's have a copy off-line in a location where the servers are not. Heck, choose another location for more security. I am thinking: A tape and a DVD in a safe with a lock on it. And another somewhere else.

If you really need to keep it safe, commit it all to memory and then shoot yourself in the temple.

Re:See also: The classic answer to computer proble (5, Funny)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325281)

If you really need to keep it safe, commit it all to memory and then shoot yourself in the temple.

hey, the guy might NOT be jewish.

did you consider that?

Re:See also: The classic answer to computer proble (5, Funny)

dmomo (256005) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325311)

Well done sir. Either way, it'd be a horrible way to parish.

Re:See also: The classic answer to computer proble (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325619)

OK, I think we've done this one to death.

Re:See also: The classic answer to computer proble (5, Funny)

BluBrick (1924) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325711)

I think you need to altar your attitude.

Re:See also: The classic answer to computer proble (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27327079)

Freakin' nice...

Re:See also: The classic answer to computer proble (1)

halk (139476) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325865)

If he was Jewish mocking him about the events of 70 AD this way would be pretty damn insensitive!

Re:See also: The classic answer to computer proble (4, Funny)

dougisfunny (1200171) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326295)

Too soon?

Re:See also: The classic answer to computer proble (1)

lewko (195646) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327607)

Excuse me being lame, but can you please explain the reference?

Re:See also: The classic answer to computer proble (1)

George Beech (870844) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325357)

>>What sort of security do you put on your backup infrastructure?

It depends.

I guess it depends how valuable the data is, how current it needs to be. Does it need to be kept secret or simply kept uncorrupted? How fast do you need to access these backups. The harder for you, potentially the more secure.

For starters let's have a copy off-line in a location where the servers are not. Heck, choose another location for more security. I am thinking: A tape and a DVD in a safe with a lock on it. And another somewhere else.

If you really need to keep it safe, commit it all to memory and then shoot yourself in the temple.

I think you are missing an even bigger problem. How many of your servers does your backup infrastructure have admin access to - or if not admin elevated access? Are your backups a push or pull? If they are a pull you now have INBOUND firewall rules from your backup segment into your other network segments allowing the backup server to talk and start the pull. Or if you have a backup segment, there is not firewall protection, except host based firewalls, which have rules to allow the backup server to talk.

Yes having multiple copies is a good idea, but backups are a very dangerous thing security wise if not done right and secured properly.

Johnny Mnemonic... (1)

meuhlavache (1101089) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325877)

If you really need to keep it safe, commit it all to memory and then shoot yourself in the temple.

... was here!

Re:See also: The classic answer to computer proble (1)

biggknifeparty (618904) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325993)

There's a cool way you can have backups that you can bring only very quickly with FreeBSD. You build a jailed environment, then just tarball, then encrypt the whole thing. Then host it in another country.) If your server fails, you simply bring another one online and load the same jail (userspace vm). You can automate database backups, and just make sure that they are encrypted, and sshtunnel>>ftpd to a secure firewalled location. Backup your VM whenever you make a software change, and backup the database and scripting files daily (or as needed). Encrypt whatever you need, and store the files in a location where they cannot be executed or accessed without secured access. The backups can be automated from the host system crontab, (ex: tar -czf $date-jailbackup.tar.gz /path/to/jail). Since the Jail has no access to the host system, and the secured backup server has no access to the host either, then it's relative secure.

Re:See also: The classic answer to computer proble (1)

Dibblah (645750) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327727)

If you think jail is secure, you really need to not be working in the security field.

Encrypt it (5, Insightful)

micksam7 (1026240) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325227)

Encrypt your backups.

Don't let your backup system have access to your main system.

Allow your main system write-only access to your backup system, for the sole purpose of delivering new backups.

Re:Encrypt it (2, Insightful)

micksam7 (1026240) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325233)

Ammendum:
Anything else needing to be done would require a admin to do it, and that's the point.

Re:Encrypt it tsarkon reports (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325287)

"Encrypt it" [slashdot.org]
by micksam7 (1026240)

Encrypt your backups.

Don't let your backup system have access to your main system.

Allow your main system write-only access to your backup system, for the sole purpose of delivering new backups.
--
Comment above sucks, just so you know.

Re:Encrypt it [slashdot.org]
            by micksam7 (1026240)

            Ammendum:
            Anything else needing to be done would require a admin to do it, and that's the point.
            --
            Comment above sucks, just so you know.

First off, you reply to your own comment when your signature is "Comment above sucks, just so you know"

Secondly, you might want to read the article. The article was about some guy's backup server getting hacked, not the backups getting stolen. The hacker deleted all his backups on the backup server (which incidentally should be taped or off-lined, Ultrium3/4 drives are fairly inexpensive compared to the cost of loss of data), then the hacker destroyed his production server.

Third, the word Ammendum doesn't exist. Did you mean addendum?

So you misspell words, poke fun of yourself via your signature and then offer terrible advice, use a word which doesn't exist and you say "a admin" rather than "an admin."

Does your brain work?

eggs in multiple baskets (5, Interesting)

jgercken (314042) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325231)

1) divide your eggs in at least two baskets, thoughtfully designed to protect their integrity
2) keep your baskets in physically isolated locations
3) take steps to protect your eggs from theft
4) after retrieving your eggs, inspect them for tampering before using them in your souffle
5) purchase insurance for the off chance you get yolk on your face

Re:eggs in multiple baskets (1)

socceroos (1374367) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325359)

Thats a heck of a pain if all you want to do is make soufflé.

Re:eggs in multiple baskets tsarkon (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325435)

Thats a heck of a pain if all you want to do is make soufflé.

Did you mean soufflé? Because something about your system is causing your accent ague to look silly.

Re:eggs in multiple baskets tsarkon (2, Funny)

wickerprints (1094741) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325873)

It's a special, copyrighted, variant spelling of soufflé. Apparently it also requires equally special baskets and eggs.

Re:eggs in multiple baskets tsarkon (1)

ais523 (1172701) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326411)

Slashdot doesn't support Unicode, so the e-acture came out mojibake-style. (As for why Slashdot doesn't support Unicode in 2009, see if you can think up a decent explanation, I can't...) It's not the grandparent's fault.

Re:eggs in multiple baskets tsarkon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27327427)

(As for why Slashdot doesn't support Unicode in 2009, see if you can think up a decent explanation, I can't...)

Chinese spam

The "5:erocS" problem (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327441)

(As for why Slashdot doesn't support Unicode in 2009, see if you can think up a decent explanation, I can't...)

Slashdot is written in English, whose native words do not use characters outside US-ASCII. Characters outside US-ASCII have been used to attack the site in the past [slashdot.org] . Therefore, Slashdot staff put no effort into making sure that characters outside US-ASCII can be used in comments.

Re:eggs in multiple baskets (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326073)

We were on the point of closing a deal with a customer and they were supposed to call back the next day. We called them after a week. Apparently, they had backups, but they stored them in-house, in a place safe from earthquakes and fire. Unfortunately, they forgot about crazy truck drivers. Some guy drove his truck right into their office and wrecked everything; the backup room was fire-proof and it was designed to resist the roof and walls falling on it, but the truck did more damage than they could think of.

Re:eggs in multiple baskets (1)

Captian Spazzz (1506193) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326367)

1) divide your eggs in at least two baskets, thoughtfully designed to protect their integrity
2) keep your baskets in physically isolated locations
3) take steps to protect your eggs from theft
4) after retrieving your eggs, inspect them for tampering before using them in your souffle
5) purchase insurance for the off chance you get yolk on your face

6) ???
7) PROFIT!!!!
Sorry, had to be said.

Why were your backup servers (5, Insightful)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325241)

accessible in the first place? Somebody in IT was not doing their job.

Re:Why were your backup servers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325453)

The submitter isn't affiliated with the company with the compromised backup servers.

Follow the quotes, it's pretty easy once you get the hang of it.

For example, you said "Why were your backup servers accessible in the first place? Somebody in IT was not doing their job."

To which, I reply, "Duh".

Re:Why were your backup servers (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325529)

"Their" is not singular, you cretin. Use "his": it's a perfectly fucking good word.

Re:Why were your backup servers (2, Interesting)

mokus000 (1491841) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327719)

"Their" is not singular, you cretin. Use "his": it's a perfectly fucking good word.

Oh, come off it. [bartleby.com] Quit wasting the world's time.

Re:Why were your backup servers (4, Interesting)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325547)

There are a couple ways to 'automate' your backups being "offline" but still automated; not perfect, but better than what they apparently had.

Server on the Internet, with a private subnet behind said server where your backup server(s) are. Internal interface on server must have absolutely zero services running, and the connection must not be routable.

However, backup servers also need to be not kept "online" when not backing up. You can:

* Keep them powered off and only power them on (automatically) when you're doing backups (which occur on a schedule from the main server).
* Keep them on, but with the network interface down.
* If the backup servers use external storage but are kept on, have those on a separate power unit that powers up only on schedule as well.

Personally, this sounds like an "inside job": it's malicious and performed with a great deal of knowledge of the operation. That speaks of a disgruntled employee to me, not some kiddie at it for kicks. There are a lot of steps which can be taken, but realistically, you're not going to be able to deal with something like this unless you've got your data backups completely 'unattached'.

Isolate the Backup Servers (2, Insightful)

StCredZero (169093) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325247)

Why were your backup servers accessible from the outside network? Your backup servers are arguably even more valuable than your production servers. They should be behind yet another firewall. You can even have the production servers connect to them through a separate network interface. (Network interfaces and Cat5 cables are cheap.) If you are really paranoid, you can create folders where the server can upload data, but can't erase or overwrite what it has uploaded.

Re:Isolate the Backup Servers (1)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325641)

offsite backup much?

Prevention for exploit via backups (4, Funny)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325259)

Easy, don't do backups! 99% of the world is already way ahead of you on this. Hard drive failure is a myth, anyway.

Re:Prevention for exploit via backups (1, Funny)

dvhh (763607) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325579)

even better install Bonzi Buddy on your servers, and better yet discard your firewall, they are for pussies anyway. And who the need those lunix servers, windows 95 "should be enough for everyone"

Re:Prevention for exploit via backups (1)

PingPongBoy (303994) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325995)

That's the total paradox - do backups and be screwed or don't and be screwed.

Well, for what it's worth, if you really must, use a different OS to run the backup. This other OS is always not networked, always booted from a read-only drive, or whatever is required to keep it from being corrupted. You have to tolerate some downtime though, so maybe copy your working files to another machine if possible. Security and reliability are a bitch, but combating entropy has its price.

Re:Prevention for exploit via backups (1)

JAlexoi (1085785) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326813)

That's the total paradox - do backups and be screwed or don't and be screwed.

Well. The fact that you are alive, means that someone got screwed. Therefore, life is a total paradox!

Well, if it ws me... (1)

rlanctot (310750) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325279)

I'm no expert, but if it were me, my off site backups wouldn't be accessible via the net at all, they'd be completely offline. I'd back up locally to a system not connected to the Internet at all then move my backups off site manually.

Re:Well, if it ws me... (1)

theNetImp (190602) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326349)

Oh yea that works good until you have 30TB of data. We ran an image storage solution for a company, we had 12 NAS devices each with 5TB of storage. 6 for production data, 6 for backups. If someone had hacked us and deleted all that data we'd have been screwed, luckily it was attached to a server that had no access to the internet directly, so they'd have had to get through 2 firewalls and ssh key only access to the the front ends from our office and a few other remote locations (ie my house). I never want to manage that much data ever again.

Re:Well, if it ws me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326587)

Oh yea that works good until you have 30TB of data. ... I never want to manage that much data ever again.

I suspect within 10 years, 20 at the outside, that much data will seem trivial. After all, 1TB drives are already becoming common, next year no doubt 2TB will be common, etc.

Obvious Oversight by WHT (5, Informative)

Revotron (1115029) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325285)

There was a very blatant oversight and an unfortunate assumption on the part of WHT and iNET Interactive.

They quite obviously overlooked the fact that the WHT servers (and ONLY the WHT servers) would ever need routine access to the backup servers. Therefore it was an obvious security hole that could have been plugged by restricting traffic through iptables to only iNET-affiliated IPs. Any teleworkers who needed access should simply use a VPN to iNet's offices if they really need access to the backup systems. If under some extreme circumstance (such as the loss of a database) an outside party needs access to the backup servers, the system admin can then add an exception under iptables.

And on that note, the other incredibly thoughtless assumption was that any traffic coming from the backup servers would be approved traffic. So once the attacker gained access to the backup servers, the database servers were one insecure hop away.

I think this proves the following very important points to the entire IT industry:
1) Internal infrastructure should remain just that - internal! Restrictions should always be put in place as to who can (or can't) access a system.
2) No traffic can be guaranteed authorized or authentic. It's one thing to add an SSH keyfile to your home servers, but in an enterprise environment everything must be highly scrutinized. It's no longer a matter of protecting systems from users - it's now a matter of protecting systems from other systems as well.

I was personally affected by the loss of information at WHT and while it's annoying, it's a fact of life and can't be undone. All that's left now is to pick up the pieces, secure the site as best they can and move on with lessons learned.

Air gap with physical delivery. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325339)

have backups delivered to backup site physically, with backup site not actually connected to any network.

so basically unless they nab your delivery guy or show up at the site with guns, it should be safe(tm).

in my mind this is half-funny/half-hmmmm-maybe

Re:Air gap with physical delivery. (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325531)

Yeah but then they will get left in a car outside a strip club or something.

Simple solution.... offline backups (1)

Fallen Kell (165468) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325369)

The simple solution is to have backups that go to physical media which is offline and not accessible from any computer system without human physical intervention. The only way to tamper with this backup would be to get physical access to it, which is much harder and much more dangerous/risky than cracking into a system remotely. A periodic rotation of tapes offline will prevent this kind of attack from succeeding in bringing your systems down and loosing all your data.

Re:Simple solution.... offline backups (2, Interesting)

mysidia (191772) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325495)

If your system is compromised for an extended period of time, and you don't know about it, your backups can still get tainted.

i.e. the hacker might modify your backup process in a subtle way, like getting random bits corrupted on the tape, sufficient to make it useless for restoring.

Hardly anyone actually completely tests their backups, to make sure they'll work.

After 6-12 months, the hacker hoses the real DB, not expecting their trap, you try to load from backup from physical media, only to make the situation even worse.

It could take you quite a long time to find a backup that's not hosed (assuming you keep physical media backups older than 12 months)

Re:Simple solution.... offline backups (1)

Fallen Kell (165468) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327421)

I didn't even mention backup tests because I just assumed that these were being done... I guess that is just something I take for granted because we have always done this. Some products have this ability built into the system to test the integrity of the backup by reading the files off the backup media and checksuming them vs the original files.

You did it wrong. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325417)

Your backup server should have no access whatsoever to your production server. Your production server should access your backup, not the other way around.

Re:You did it wrong. (1)

mysidia (191772) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325511)

Your backup server should have no access whatsoever to your production server. Your production server should access your backup, not the other way around.

Actually, there are two ways to handle it, either (A) give the backup server read-only access to the live server, or (B) give the live server write-only access to today's backup directory on the backup server.

The design should be such that damage should be minimized (should any server be compromised)

Unfortunately, backups normally inherently contain sensitive files like /etc/shadow which could be used by an attacker to gain access to the live server (Brute force attack)

Possibly a database used by some application in the environment utilized plaintext passwords, so the backups _could_ contain a password that just so happens to be the one needed for the hacker to get into the live equipment....

Just b/c access to the backup server lead to access to the real one doesn't necessarily mean the backup server 'had access' to the active one.

However, backup servers should be guarded like the crown jewels, and not made accessible from the internet, period, except if and until the backup need be brought into service (as some type of public server).

Hackers. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325507)

Was the best movie of all time.

Guard/Isolate the backup... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325541)

Even if you need to use rsync where read access to the main server is needed...Use NFS to export the RO file system from the main server to the backup. No write access from backup whatsoever.

Also, firewall the backup heavily. Backup should really only needed to make outgoing NFS connection, and incoming SSH perhaps.

Turn off the backup when not needed. Wake up on ACPI Alarm (or less ideal, WOL by others). This should make it more secure, and saving some powers too. *Potentially* this makes it stronger against electrical strike too.

Lock that shit down. (1)

w0mprat (1317953) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325545)

If you have adequate physical security in meatspace, then it's reasonable to assume your backups are not significantly more vulnerable over and above your main cubical farm.

It is also an reasonable initial assumption when setting up shop, that backups of any kind should be situated in a more bomb/fire/quake/flood/theft proof place than your main operation. That goes for external intrusions to your hot failover systems too.

A: The same way you protect any other resource (1)

carlzum (832868) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325681)

Why would there be a different security policy for the backup server or media?

Why were all the backups online? (4, Interesting)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325713)

I understand why the most recent backup would be online, but I assumed it was standard procedure to have the remaining archive offline.

Re:Why were all the backups online? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27327665)

That's what they restored from. They only lost 800 posts or so.

-Jim (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325735)

Use SSH to connect to your backup server, do not use port 22, but something higher than 10,000. Generate a large key 4000-6000 bit range, to connect up...no passwords allowed. Do not use Root but rather generate a random user name..not "backup". Also, you can set your IP's in the hosts.allow file on the backup servers to futher restrict who can connect. Unless I'm missing something, this is quite foolproof..even to a talented fool.

I use duplicity for offisite and nfs for onsite (1)

Britz (170620) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325855)

I couldn't care less if any of those machines got compromised. Ok, the onsite nfs backup servers would be kind of weird, since they are behind my firewall. So if they compromise my backup servers they could as well compromise any other machine on that lan. Offsite backups are stored via ftp using Duplicity. Even if they compromise the backup servers they would still have to break my n-digit random passprase in order to look into it. And even if they took a look inside my backups it still wouldn't compromise my network, since none of the passwords are stored in clear text.

Why was this possible? (3, Insightful)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325863)

I don't understand. The attackers gained access to the database...through the backup servers? That leaves me with two questions:

1. Why were the backup servers accessible to the attacker?
2. Why was the database accessible from the backup servers?

It seems to me that the only way you need to access the backup servers is through some mechanism that allows you to transfer data to and from them. A single open port, which you need a password (or key) to use seems all that should be exposed. That shouldn't be too hard to secure.

It also seems to me that the backup server has no business accessing the database, and therefore shouldn't be able to access the database.

Unless, of course, the way the system works is that the backup server accesses the production server to retrieve the data from it. That doesn't seem the most obvious design to me, but it would at least explain why the backup server could access the database. Maybe that is a good reason not to design the system that way (on the other hand, it saves complexity on the production server, which is good). At any rate, it doesn't answer the first question, which is why the attackers were able to access the backup server.

My sympathy goes out to the WHT administrators. Good luck on recovering from this and figuring out what went wrong. I hope you will keep us posted, so that we can all learn from this incident.

Re:Why was this possible? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326489)

I don't know if that's the case, but I thought that maybe they have their database accessible to the internet (e.g. mysql listening in public interface instead of localhost or a private subnet). If an attacker gained access to a backup, he could have the root db password and ... profit!

I'd be surprised if that's the case, looks like a very noob error.

Re:Why was this possible? (2, Insightful)

tapanitarvainen (1155821) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326865)

Unless, of course, the way the system works is that the backup server accesses the production server to retrieve the data from it. That doesn't seem the most obvious design to me, but it would at least explain why the backup server could access the database. Maybe that is a good reason not to design the system that way

That is a rather common design in backup systems, and there are good reasons for it: mainly, it allows securing the backup server better, especially in the (common) situation where one backup server handles several production machines.

If the backup servers offer only read-only access to anyone over the net (or not even that if recovery from backup is rare enough to be initiated from backup server console), it can be secured much easier than when if offers write access to clients backing themselves up.

[...] it doesn't answer the first question, which is why the attackers were able to access the backup server.

You are right there, though.

Re:Why was this possible? (1)

Johnny00 (213878) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327681)

You never trust your production servers. So the production server -cant- connect to the backup servers. The obvious design is to have the backup server (or some 3rd system) be the one that connects to the production server. The real question is why was the backup server reachable from the public internet.

Several layers (1)

ducomputergeek (595742) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325889)

We have a back up server the hosting company provides, and that is on a seperate subnet, no external facing ip. In addtion, we have an FTP server at another hosting co, and finally the emergancy back up in the office, which gets backed up to an external hdd and DVD.

Not backups. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27325921)

What they describes is DR, not a backup. Backup is offline media not online servers.

RTFA, they don't know much about security (1)

itsme1234 (199680) | more than 5 years ago | (#27325947)

"Passwords are hashed with salt. It would be an unprecedented event to reverse engineer our passwords."

Yea, sure, like most users will choose good passwords when registering for such forums. Having the salt will slow down an attack against all passwords at the same time, but that's all. A normal brute force attack even against a "light" dictionary will probably reveal enough passwords for any evil purpose (like spam).
And really for a forum that's called "WebHostingTalk" they should be better at, well, WebHosting. And really the security of the backup server is trivial compared to the production server. Of course it needs to be considered seriously but it is a much easier problem: you don't have to deal with tons of services, demons, mysql, tangled forum/gallery/etc software and most importantly you need to keep it online only a fraction of the time and it doesn't need such a fast connection if you do the backups with any intelligence.
What's more you can encrypt everything towards a public key (it can be done either by the production machine or by the backup server). The secret key can be safely backup up in any fashion you like offline (it's a tiny, tiny file).

Insider (2, Funny)

chirone (643355) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326115)

Probably was a former employee who did the job. At work we always joke to make a backdoor, ready to delete all backups in case we get fired. Unfortunately we have fireproof safes and off-site backups...

Redundancy? (1)

thogard (43403) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326263)

You don't do backups, you do redundancy. If your IT model depends on one server doing its thing right, you have already gone down the path the doom.

Re:Redundancy? (1)

1s44c (552956) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326363)

You don't do backups, you do redundancy. If your IT model depends on one server doing its thing right, you have already gone down the path the doom.

You need point in time backups of all code and user data as well. Even the brightest people delete or alter the wrong thing every once in a while.

Can I hire him? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326313)

Dunno, but our backups are so secure that even the DBAs are usually unable to restore them. We might need this evil hacker to teach them a trick or two.

Re:Can I hire him? (1)

lamapper (1343009) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326599)

Very funny and sadly true for many....

If a site has not actually restored their systems from backups to verify that the backups are actually valid and good....than their backups just may be so secure no one can get them.

Having experienced this first hand with a commercial backup product (#1 in its industry) from a very large and respected company with a heck of a good track record...thus you sorta expect it to work...

Not fun at all. Since the team had existed before I came on board, I was surprised no one before me had attempted to restore data from the backups. Amazing, but it does happen.

I have also been asked where the Any key is? One person could not wrap their mind around the fact that there was not any key on the keyboard called the Any key; seeing their lack of understanding and dismay at my reply that there was NOT an Any key; I took a different perspective and corrected myself. I pointed to the space bar on their keyboard and told them that was the ANY KEY.

Based on the relieved smile I received in return, I guess I helped them, even if the answer was both wrong and right. At least now they had a key to press, whenever they read press any key in a manual. Problem solved.

It's obvious (1)

1s44c (552956) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326353)

It is goes off site encrypt it. That's what I do.

You have to compress the data first as the tape drive can't do its own compression on encrypted data.

The only exception is content that's meant to be public in the first place.

Re:It's obvious (2, Interesting)

mlts (1038732) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326967)

The one thing about encryption -- key management is just as important as the algorithm used. A business has to figure out how they are going to manage keys. Are they going to use a passphrase that only the backup admins will know, or are they going to use some type of RSA key functionality? If private keys are used, how are they backed up?

There are a lot of factors involved, and one important thing is not depending on one single person as one doesn't depend on one single server. There should be some type of mechanism put in place to deal with an employee gone missing (or even worse, rogue.) For a smaller business, the risks may be low, but its something that should be thought about when planning a backup infrastructure and implementing it.

transparent virtual point-to-point link (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326387)

set up this with your isp.

About Web Hosting Talk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326565)

I work in IT security, and although I'm not a member of WHT, it's a board that I often end up looking at for my research.

Quite often the service providers being discussed are organized criminal rings (e.g. RBN) or are simply fraudulent. I am guessing that WHT accidentally upset one of these criminal web hosters which would explain the attack.

I really do hope that they catch the people responsible.

Backups (2, Insightful)

ledow (319597) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326797)

Tape drive (or even other external device) with encrypted data. There, problem solved. Do you see why such devices/features are standard on anything that has the word "backup" on it?

However, if you insist on having servers running all day long that you want to backup to, then at least make sure they are a million times more secure than your production servers - as the name suggests, they are your BACKUP if anything goes wrong. This means - encrypted data, locked-down networking (i.e. absolute minimum necessary - one port, one user, one ultra-secure key), proper permissioning (it might not be a bad idea to set the permissions so that you can append to a file but can't read it, thus forcing you to have physical access in order to restore any data from backup, or certainly that you can't overwrite existing files) and physical security (i.e. properly hosted in a decent hosting outfit and/or securely placed in an offsite location where they can't be got at - even if this is in a secure cage in a branch office).

And letting the backup server have ANY permissions on your local network is just stupid. Push, don't pull. Tell the backup server what to backup, don't let it pick and choose and require access back to your network - it's a backup device not "just another machine". A simple "nothing outbound" firewall rule on that machine would have stopped them coming back to you, providing the backup was encrypted (I'm assuming they actually piggy-backed onto your network than stole the db passwords from your backups). And the backup should ALWAYS be encrypted because it might well contain information such as your passwords in it, especially so if you are storing other people's data.

Yeah, it costs money to do this properly, but that's the price you pay for not losing thousands of people's data. I imagine the kick-back from that data loss will run to more than the price of a tape drive or two in the long run. What they had was NOT a backup. It was a rapid-restore machine. That's fine to have *as well as* a backup, but no better than hanging a 250Gb USB drive off the database server (in fact, worse, because that machine was able to be remotely-compromised).

They're not backups unless they're TESTED (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327475)

it might not be a bad idea to set the permissions so that you can append to a file but can't read it, thus forcing you to have physical access in order to restore any data from backup

Even for a restore to a sandbox system for testing the backup media?

My Solution (1)

Wingsy (761354) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326903)

As a design engineer (self employed, work from home) my stuff goes into a Firewire drive via Time Machine. It and the MacPro are both chained to a metal pole, so that covers theft I would think. About every 3 months or so I make an incremental backup to yet another DVD and give it to my sister who keeps it at her house, and that covers fire. I'm comfy with that, and none of my stuff is in the hands of some vulnerable cloud computer.

Does anyone know? (1)

iamflimflam1 (1369141) | more than 5 years ago | (#27327131)

Did the hacker attack the backup servers through the internet? Or did he gain physical access to the servers?

Makes a big difference - you can secure the machine from the internet, it's hard to secure it from someone sat at the keyboard...

Use Bacula! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27327255)

Bacula - In comes in the night and sucks the essence out of your servers

open source enterprise backup software, supports SSL transport encryption, and AES storage encryption. Supports most any type of media, optical, tape or files on an hdd.

seems like a much better solution.

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