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Last.fm To Start Charging International Users

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the hard-chargin' dept.

Music 329

tdobson writes "The popular online radio service Last.fm has announced that users outside of the UK, USA and Germany will need to start paying 3 Euros (about $4.40 USD/£2.80 GBP) per month to continue streaming music on their service. Last.fm doesn't offer much of a reason as to the change, other than writing on their blog that '[t]here will be a 30 track free trial, and we hope this will convince people to subscribe and keep listening to the radio.' Already, there appears to be quite a backlash in responses so far, amongst subscribers and non-subscribers of all nationalities — has this killed Last.fm's appeal, globally?"

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Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Reports (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326077)

Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Reports

- This just in, March 23 2009 Chinas central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund [ft.com]

- Russia too: It is necessary to work out and adopt internationally recognized standards for macroeconomic and budget policy, which are binding for the leading world economies, including the countries issuing reserve currencies - the Kremlin proposals read. [en.rian.ru]

- President Barak "The Teleprompter" Obama is deeply connected to corruption, Rahm Emanuel (Radical authoritarian Statist whose father was part of the Murderous Civilian Killing Israeli Terrorist Organization known as IRGUN), Connected to Rod Blagojevich (Rahm inherited Rod's federal-congress seat), Connected to Ayers, a man who promotes the concept that civilian collateral damage is ok in a war against freedom, Preacher Jeremiah Wright, who is himself a black-elitist who wants all the people who largely "pay the freight" to suffer, 31 million on food stamps, more blacks are in prison and on food-stamps per capita than anyone else. The problem with Wright is simply this: the facts are "racist."
- Obama: Racist, AIPAC-bootlicker, Corrupted to the bone Chicago style and a Traitor to the US Constitution and a Liar whose real "legal" name could very well be Barry Sotero and an Indonesian citizen (The US does not allow plural citizenship) (If you care, not that it matters anymore under a Lawless Authoritarian Totalitarian Regime, you can see more here at an aggregator; obamacrimes.info [obamacrimes.info] )
  - Raytheon lobbyist in Pentagon, lots lobbyists getting exemptions even though he promised not to have them.
- Goldman Sachs insider second in command at Treasury. Bumbling tax cheat idiot in "command" of Treasury with 17 positions unfilled as of late March 2009.
- Cabinet has had several nominees and appointees with multiple tax fraud issues.
- Lied about having a new degree of accountability and a SUNSHINE period of new laws, he has signed bills with little or no review at whitehouse.gov as promised.
- Appointed a second amendment violating Rich-pardoning treasonist Eric Holder as AG, the top cop of the USA, a man who helped a fugitive evade justice.
- Has not put a dime in for a single new nuclear power plant but wants to help bridges and roads to promote more driving.
- Obama, Blagojevich and Rahm Emanuel have a LOT to hide. They literally lived next to each other, Rahm had (until being Chairman Obama's Chief of staff) Blagojevich's old federal congressional seat. Blagojevich helped Chairman "The Teleprompter" Obama cheat his way to the Illinois senate by getting other candidates thrown off the ballot in Illinois. Why do you think Blagojevich was so mad? Obama DID owe him, big time. Rahm and Obama are using Blagojevich and trying to cut his head off to keep him away.
- Tony Rezko, Iraqi Arms Dealer Nahdmi Auchi, and of course Aiham Alsammarae. Chairman "The Teleprompter" Hussein Obama is so corrupted its a joke.
- Fools and "useful idiots" twist the pie charts by leaving welfare, workfare, interest on debt, social security, Medicare and Medicaid out and focusing only on non-whole "discretionary" pie charts.
2007 high level pie chart, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]
2009 Pie chart, detailed, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]
- Chairman Obama is drastically increasing spending and creating more entitlements that will make the US less competitive (especially against China, India, East Europe/Russia). This will be a huge disaster and change you can believe in will strap you and your grandkids with more debt. No taxation without representation? Obama is spending money for the next two-three generations and they can't even vote yet, or even have been born.
- An alternative to the dollar and a forex and a reserve currency came up at the last G20 meeting. The world will not take faith in Obama's liar-socialist spending and welfare state, why should the taxpayers (plebian citizen-slaves of a police state).
- The spending going on now vastly eclipses all previous spending. In fact, the massive trillion plus debts is a thing of the 80's onwards. Congress signs the checks, remember that Year after year, as egregious as the pentagon spending is, that the social spending is completely a waste of money and it is unfunded over the long term. Eisenhower built the interstates, the US could build a new power infrastructure with this money but instead is being pissed into creating more of an entitlement system that is STILL unfunded, and without massive poll-taxes and far more aggressive progressive taxes, could NEVER be funded.
- The budgeting being done today were recently reported by a non-partisan auditing commission will lead to about 10 TRILLION in new debt over the next 10 years. Obama is going to double the national debt while doing nothing to address the unfunded debt obligations of Social Security.
- Clinton appointed David Walker of the GAO, he quit, the unfunded debt obligations have rendered the USA insolvent according to accounting standards.
Taxpayers on the hook for $59 trillion [usatoday.com]
US Public Debt Unfunded Debt Obligations [wikipedia.org]
- Most of the world population gets NOTHING from their governments, or a very bare minimum or services that benefit only the upper echelons of society. However, the liar Chairman Obama says we need his universal "state-hospital" rationed health care to be competitive. Bull. China and India give nothing, and they are the biggest threat to the American worker. By forcing healthcare and higher taxes, Americans will be less competitive.
- If you think 60% tax rates end to end (income, accounts receivable tax, building permit tax, CDL tax, cigarette tax, corporate income tax, dog license tax, federal income tax, unemployment tax, gasoline tax, hunting license tax, fishing license tax, waterfowl stamp tax, inheritance tax, inventory tax, liquor tax, luxury tax, Medicare tax, city, school and county property tax (up 33 percent last 4 years), real estate tax, social security tax, road usage tax, toll road tax, state and city sales tax, recreational vehicle tax, excise tax, state franchise tax, state unemployment tax, telephone federal excise tax, telephone federal state and local surcharge tax, telephone minimum usage surcharge tax, telephone state and local tax, utility tax, vehicle license registration tax, capital gains tax, lease severance tax, oil and gas assessment tax, misc internet sales tax and many more taxes that I can't recall at the moment) will make the US competitive, along with compulsory programs to provide everyone with health care is going to make the US competitive in the age of India and China, you are a joke.
- As the US nationalizes (read: rations healthcare) to the least common denominator of affordability without regard to efficacy, people with money will simply look into medical tourism so those with money can go to medical parks in India and get real health care. Those who have lived in Canada or in the UK can tell you "free" healthcare is NOT a panacea. If you think this, you are again, a useful idiot. The NHS in the UK has given bad blood and Hepatitis and AIDS blood to people, and Jade Goody who just died was misdiagnosed twice resulting in her death (She was all cleared twice of cervical cancer which she just died of). The NHS in the UK is not able to be sued or held accountable. Neither will Chairman Obama's rationed health care service for America.
- Sorry to bust the socialist bubble-lie, but support of these types of policies will simply lower the standard of living in the USA, particularly for the middle class. At least at the end of the Eisenhower projects the USA got roads to show for the spending, and with this new spending, the USA could have built power plants that get the USA out of the middle east, but the age of government for the sake of government is upon us, and the useful idiots line up and believe empty promises.
The pentagon (and Bechtel, Kroll, Bluewater, Halliburton, etc) could get less than half of what they get today, but that will fix nothing fundamental in terms of government spending. It is simply not enough to make a difference when compared to the Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security entitlements.
See: YouTube - US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy [youtube.com]
- If Obama thinks its ok to lie to 300 million people about being able to "take care of them" without even being honest about what that care would look like, then being an idiot and believing in Obama is for you.
- The head of the IRS and the head of the Treasury, Geithner, is a Tax Cheat
- Lied about no lobbyists - their numbers are growing.
- The US Government already have over 50% of the budget on Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security. Socialists: Good job on that one, its working great. Solution to the current near-collapse-due-to-over-spending: add more unfunded entitlements!
- You Socialist-liars can break my spirit and my financial back to force me to "need" a federal government that is turning this country into a police state and turn it into a quasi-socialist lie, but I will, I must put up a fight. I have kids to educate and feed, and the stuff you sell (which is failing to various degrees everywhere else as implemented) is simply forcing a culture of failure on a once great, libertarian free country.
- I will not be complacent with your "change," and there will be a point where civil war will become an option. See how hard you can push before you get it. How much more than half can the truly productive workers in this country afford to pay. Keep pushing to find out how to start a civil war.
- The socialist-lie of a plan will not work, its not fundable, it WILL destroy the currency to fund it, and its really as simple as this: if this insanity is funded by borrowing from the US's economic and military adversaries then Obama and his socialist cabal is NOT fit to administrate society. Rome fell. Kings who mis-manged their treasuries all fell. Every example of unhinged spending leads to the same result: systemic collapse.
- Obama and his sycophantic lunatics would want to have a civil war to get Chairman Obama's way and force the socialist-lie system on my already tax paying law abiding ass. And as far as "no new taxes" for those under 250k, its a lie, the tax is called inflation, which is set to begin just about now that the Chinese wont want the USA's worthless treasuries to fund the socialist-lie fantasy (one that COMMUNIST China doesn't even try and sell to its people!)
- Chairman Obama's numbers don't add up. There is a $59 trillion dollar hole (UFDO) in social security alone. AIG $150 billion here, TARP $350 billion there. $800 billion for a highly dubious stimulus package. Another one on the way. $59 trillion hole in the balance sheet IGNORED. China saying they aren't going to buy treasuries, Clinton clamoring to find buyers now. $3.6 trillion dollar budget, potential military action on Mexico, Iran still a "terrorist state" at the behest of the AIPAC, spending up, dollar about to fall, inflation over time since Breton Woods extremely easy to document, yet, the socialist-liars question when the numbers (the Federal Government numbers) simply don't add up to the point where if the US-GOV was a company it would be insolvent.
  -How dare the taxpayers question what Chairman Obama's drastic spending increases are going to do to the purchasing power of our savings because Chairman Obama wants to recklessly spend and try to maintain and American empire AND guarantee a standard of living, and Chairman Obama doesn't even want to build a single nuclear power plant to do it? Chairman Obama must be a complete and total lunatic moron.
- Obama is either a negligent idiot or an unhinged maniac with delusional fantasies. Meanwhile, Chainman Obama's tax dodging Treasury Secretary has 17 unfilled positions, the Treasury Dept. isn't even functioning at this point.
- "General welfare" in the constitution was, according to the man who wrote it, Madison, meant to be extremely limited in scope. The federal government per the constitution doesn't even have the enumerated POWER to deal with economic messes. A lot of these "POWERS" were created while there is a crisis to dupe the public into accepting an un-constitutional authoritarian regime as the government and to usurp authority over the people.
- The USA is a constitutional republic. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting to eat a sheep. Also a constitutional republic isn't about using a barely-majority or a plurality to stuff your (un-fundable disastrous) crap down the disenfranchised other-half's throat.
- With Obama's authoritarian corrupted criminal (aiding and abetting a criminal in flight of prosecution, Rich case) Eric Holder in charge, we won't have our inalienable and enumerated rights to firearms much longer. For a constitutional law expert, Obama must have never read the federalist papers or he would simply hand himself as a traitor.
- The arbitrary expansion of "general welfare" is not only unconstitutional, it may very well lead to a serious conflict on the issue.
- Here is a debate on general welfare and how stuff like this came to pass, but was clearly no intended by the authors of the document of root law.
In Federalist No. 41, James Madison asked rhetorically: "For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power?" (In reference to the general welfare clause)
So strongly did the founders believe that "general welfare" wouldn't be expanded as written:
In Federalist No. 84, Alexander Hamilton indirectly confirmed Madison's point. (That the "general welfare" clause was "clearly" nota free pass for government)
Hamilton argued that a bill of rights, which many were clamoring for, would be not only unnecessary, but dangerous. Since the federal government was given only a few specific powers, there was no need to add prohibitions: it was implicitly prohibited by the listed powers. If a proposed law a relief act, for instance wasn't covered by any of these powers, it was unconstitutional.
"why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed?"
Hamilton goes on to argue that making Amendments (e.g., enumerating Free speech, press and assembly) and enumerating the 'right' would have the following effect:
(A bill of rights) "would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretence for claiming that power that is, a power to regulate the press, short of actually shutting it down. "
"With respect to the words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers (enumerated in the Constitution) connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison [The US Supreme Court has found the meaning of "general welfare" in the Constitution to be much more elastic than did Mr. Madison. But as the "author of the Constitution," what does he know?]
James Madison, when asked if the "general welfare" clause was a grant of power, replied in 1792, in a letter to Henry Lee,

If not only the means but the objects are unlimited, the parchment [the Constitution] should be thrown into the fire at once.

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government , and to provide new Guards for their future security. ...--The Declaration of Independence
- Wrong, monetizing failures causes more. Japan showed us this for decades. But hey, Chairman Obama thinks you can fix a problem DECADES in the making with a quick fixer-upper, he is screwed in the head.
- The complaints are with the Federal government (in general) since Breton Woods. The Federal Government and Obama's minions STILL didn't listen to David Walker, a Clinton appointee and former head of the GAO. This isn't about political parties anymore morons!
- Show me a single federal budget that was less than the previous. If this $3.6T budget goes, its never coming back barring systemic collapse.
- The United States Federal Government, The United States Federal Reserve, and the banks which were enabled to continue down reckless paths by a quasi government agency known as the Federal Reserve whose actions are not subject to congress and whose members are unelected. This situation is untenable and unconstitutional.
- Every inflationary road taken in history ends in collapse. Keynesian policies are widely regarded as no longer workable.
- Inflation is a tax: What ignorant tax and spenders don't take into account here is the relative percentages of people's wealth (both net and gross) and the costs of owning and maintaining houses, cars, standards of living.
- Inflation via deficit spending is going to make it such that you will be paying a lot more by percentage of your income to maintain a given standard of living. Obama's arguments are so poorly thought out and seek to blame "Republicans" for the mess, its really simply laughable - the needs cleanup now, not worsening.
- You can't spend your way out of a hole if the creditors (e.g. China) start telling the USA they won't buy. It is that simple. Now America starts to have to collateralize the debt with assets. The USA will be selling off chunks of American assets to back the new debt. One day, it may even be necessary to sell Alaska back to Russia because no one will take greenbacks to prop up a failing version of a modern Rome.
- Ah, here we go with the Matthew Lesko arguments. [lesko.com]
Interest rates were on the rise before the government stepped in with free money for everyone (the fine print of course indicate massive strings attached).
Other economies, for example, India, have the central rates set to far more reasonable/realistic rates (at the moment ~ 8+%), which is still tends to be too low, but shows that if you need someone else capital you need to pay a premium for it, and given that capital is in short supply, it would stand to reason that a premium must be charged for it.
The problem is the unrealistic growth rates of mature economies don't allow for profiting via growth projections (rather than simply earning money). So the government steps in, turns on the free money spigot, gets the interest rates for savings down in the 1-2% range while diluting the value of the whole currency in order to prop up dying companies that ran the business like a Madhoff Ponzi scheme.
- The Republicans aren't solely responsible for the crisis as Obama's minions would have you believe, congress is (no particular congress), the Executive of the US government (no particular one) and the US Federal Reserve System are all at fault.
- Fundamentally, the government is trying to fix the prices of various things to "make it all work." This pulling on the invisible hand is a fools venture. It was predicted long ago the housing collapse (and those, such as myself, in the know, wished while realizing the housing collapse coming that we were wrong for everyone's sake - but the truth is the truth) . It may be that the Austrian (von Mises) economists will ultimately be proven right.
- We are a nation of partially educated whiney grabby idiots, and we got the government that represents this. The Chinese, India and other up and coming nations will show no mercy for this arrogant abuse of our status as the world's forex reserves.
- War and asset sales will continue to be the only option for this scheme until it is corrected at the core. And to say that the government has already averted a depression by doing what they did (most of the monies injected wont be "felt" for some time), is just arrogance and stupidity. Price fixing prolonged the Great Depression. Price-fixing (or attempting to) houses will do the same, but probably worse.
- Obama's minions simply don't care if the US is bankrupted and rendered insolvent, they just want a say in how its done, presumably to "feel safe." Rather selfish.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." AND "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (Possibly Richard Jackson)

- Everyone better realize that inflation will pay a major role in funding un-fundable fantasies, wiping the savers and the middle class out. The problem is, that other countries are growing tired of making our Federal Reserve notes worth something by buying our debt as treasuries. Obama's minions talk about spending, but in order to "get what YOU want" you will sell debt to potential economic and military adversaries? Real bright. What's really sad is that despite David Walker being an authority on these issues, people refuse to even watch him and listen to what he is saying.
- On the success of Canada and its form of Socialism: A huge country like Canada with massive amounts of uranium and tar sands and natural resources and a huge land mass with a scant 30 million people is an order of magnitude less of a problem to manage than a country with 10x its population, a serious leaky southern border, backfiring aggressive foreign policy, particularly with Iran, and the US is competing with countries like India and China whose middle classes are larger than the US's entire population. The top 5 students in every Indian and Chinese primary school out numbers all the kids in primary school in the US. Canada is a idyllic island, the USA is front and center in an all out economic and political clash of ideologies.
- Cap and trade (and pollution control for solving global problems) will never work unless the top 10 countries in the world (in terms of both GDP and manufacturing capacity and population) are on board. Period end. If the world doesn't quickly move to nuclear now and fusion shortly, it is OVER possibly not if every home on the planet gets a wind vane, but that seems unlikely to happen (since its possible now).
- Keynes calls it "the paradox of thrift" and suggested that policies forcing people not to save is a "good idea." The guy wanted people spending all the time, or if he didn't, he never conveyed that to his protégés well enough for them to not do what they are doing. Right now the plebeians in the US are actually stashing cash, and everyone from Obama to the media is trying to get people to spend spend spend. The best thing for the long term is for people to prepare for the coming hell, not set out with no reserves.
- I have seen Keynes invoked to justify nearly every bad move in the past decade, and its warming up to be a potential currency collapse, the collapse of the US Treasury and Federal Reserve notes, and a collapse of the NYSE. And then they invoke Keynes to suggest the best way out of the mess is to spend out of an already near-critically debt massed black hole.
- A house is run like a town is run like a country or business is run like a state is run like a government. If there are things the government is doing that would either force your home into bankruptcy or into jail via fraud charges, then the government and banks shouldn't be operating in that fashion. A certain degree of stretchy liquidity is in order, but in terms of percent of GDP, there is no way of justifying what they US has now.
- Iceland failed at 850 percent debt to GDP. The US is at 350 and rising. It is not a good thing at all.
- What is happening to the dollar as a forex standard. [youtube.com]
- March 19, 2009 C-SPAN - "Let's Quit Destroying Our Dollar!" [youtube.com]
- HR 1207 (A bill to make the Fed more accountable and to answer questions regarding the dollar policy) [loc.gov]

Title: Obama sidetracked by fiscal mess, but presses on [yahoo.com]
"Being heard above the din may prove difficult. Lawmakers are wrangling over taxing people who got big bonuses and worrying the president's budget could generate $9.3 trillion in red ink over the next decade."
- Kremlin to pitch new global currency [infowars.com]
Russia proposes creation of global super-reserve currency

Holy crap, even the Russians and Chinese get it. Strange days are here.

Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Reports (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326083)

Obama Policies Will Bankrupt USA Tsarkon Reports

- This just in, March 23 2009 Chinas central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund [ft.com]

- Russia too: It is necessary to work out and adopt internationally recognized standards for macroeconomic and budget policy, which are binding for the leading world economies, including the countries issuing reserve currencies - the Kremlin proposals read. [en.rian.ru]

- President Barak "The Teleprompter" Obama is deeply connected to corruption, Rahm Emanuel (Radical authoritarian Statist whose father was part of the Murderous Civilian Killing Israeli Terrorist Organization known as IRGUN), Connected to Rod Blagojevich (Rahm inherited Rod's federal-congress seat), Connected to Ayers, a man who promotes the concept that civilian collateral damage is ok in a war against freedom, Preacher Jeremiah Wright, who is himself a black-elitist who wants all the people who largely "pay the freight" to suffer, 31 million on food stamps, more blacks are in prison and on food-stamps per capita than anyone else. The problem with Wright is simply this: the facts are "racist."
- Obama: Racist, AIPAC-bootlicker, Corrupted to the bone Chicago style and a Traitor to the US Constitution and a Liar whose real "legal" name could very well be Barry Sotero and an Indonesian citizen (The US does not allow plural citizenship) (If you care, not that it matters anymore under a Lawless Authoritarian Totalitarian Regime, you can see more here at an aggregator; obamacrimes.info [obamacrimes.info] )
  - Raytheon lobbyist in Pentagon, lots lobbyists getting exemptions even though he promised not to have them.
- Goldman Sachs insider second in command at Treasury. Bumbling tax cheat idiot in "command" of Treasury with 17 positions unfilled as of late March 2009.
- Cabinet has had several nominees and appointees with multiple tax fraud issues.
- Lied about having a new degree of accountability and a SUNSHINE period of new laws, he has signed bills with little or no review at whitehouse.gov as promised.
- Appointed a second amendment violating Rich-pardoning treasonist Eric Holder as AG, the top cop of the USA, a man who helped a fugitive evade justice.
- Has not put a dime in for a single new nuclear power plant but wants to help bridges and roads to promote more driving.
- Obama, Blagojevich and Rahm Emanuel have a LOT to hide. They literally lived next to each other, Rahm had (until being Chairman Obama's Chief of staff) Blagojevich's old federal congressional seat. Blagojevich helped Chairman "The Teleprompter" Obama cheat his way to the Illinois senate by getting other candidates thrown off the ballot in Illinois. Why do you think Blagojevich was so mad? Obama DID owe him, big time. Rahm and Obama are using Blagojevich and trying to cut his head off to keep him away.
- Tony Rezko, Iraqi Arms Dealer Nahdmi Auchi, and of course Aiham Alsammarae. Chairman "The Teleprompter" Hussein Obama is so corrupted its a joke.
- Fools and "useful idiots" twist the pie charts by leaving welfare, workfare, interest on debt, social security, Medicare and Medicaid out and focusing only on non-whole "discretionary" pie charts.
2007 high level pie chart, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]
2009 Pie chart, detailed, Federal Budget, USA [wikimedia.org]
- Chairman Obama is drastically increasing spending and creating more entitlements that will make the US less competitive (especially against China, India, East Europe/Russia). This will be a huge disaster and change you can believe in will strap you and your grandkids with more debt. No taxation without representation? Obama is spending money for the next two-three generations and they can't even vote yet, or even have been born.
- An alternative to the dollar and a forex and a reserve currency came up at the last G20 meeting. The world will not take faith in Obama's liar-socialist spending and welfare state, why should the taxpayers (plebian citizen-slaves of a police state).
- The spending going on now vastly eclipses all previous spending. In fact, the massive trillion plus debts is a thing of the 80's onwards. Congress signs the checks, remember that Year after year, as egregious as the pentagon spending is, that the social spending is completely a waste of money and it is unfunded over the long term. Eisenhower built the interstates, the US could build a new power infrastructure with this money but instead is being pissed into creating more of an entitlement system that is STILL unfunded, and without massive poll-taxes and far more aggressive progressive taxes, could NEVER be funded.
- The budgeting being done today were recently reported by a non-partisan auditing commission will lead to about 10 TRILLION in new debt over the next 10 years. Obama is going to double the national debt while doing nothing to address the unfunded debt obligations of Social Security.
- Clinton appointed David Walker of the GAO, he quit, the unfunded debt obligations have rendered the USA insolvent according to accounting standards.
Taxpayers on the hook for $59 trillion [usatoday.com]
US Public Debt Unfunded Debt Obligations [wikipedia.org]
- Most of the world population gets NOTHING from their governments, or a very bare minimum or services that benefit only the upper echelons of society. However, the liar Chairman Obama says we need his universal "state-hospital" rationed health care to be competitive. Bull. China and India give nothing, and they are the biggest threat to the American worker. By forcing healthcare and higher taxes, Americans will be less competitive.
- If you think 60% tax rates end to end (income, accounts receivable tax, building permit tax, CDL tax, cigarette tax, corporate income tax, dog license tax, federal income tax, unemployment tax, gasoline tax, hunting license tax, fishing license tax, waterfowl stamp tax, inheritance tax, inventory tax, liquor tax, luxury tax, Medicare tax, city, school and county property tax (up 33 percent last 4 years), real estate tax, social security tax, road usage tax, toll road tax, state and city sales tax, recreational vehicle tax, excise tax, state franchise tax, state unemployment tax, telephone federal excise tax, telephone federal state and local surcharge tax, telephone minimum usage surcharge tax, telephone state and local tax, utility tax, vehicle license registration tax, capital gains tax, lease severance tax, oil and gas assessment tax, misc internet sales tax and many more taxes that I can't recall at the moment) will make the US competitive, along with compulsory programs to provide everyone with health care is going to make the US competitive in the age of India and China, you are a joke.
- As the US nationalizes (read: rations healthcare) to the least common denominator of affordability without regard to efficacy, people with money will simply look into medical tourism so those with money can go to medical parks in India and get real health care. Those who have lived in Canada or in the UK can tell you "free" healthcare is NOT a panacea. If you think this, you are again, a useful idiot. The NHS in the UK has given bad blood and Hepatitis and AIDS blood to people, and Jade Goody who just died was misdiagnosed twice resulting in her death (She was all cleared twice of cervical cancer which she just died of). The NHS in the UK is not able to be sued or held accountable. Neither will Chairman Obama's rationed health care service for America.
- Sorry to bust the socialist bubble-lie, but support of these types of policies will simply lower the standard of living in the USA, particularly for the middle class. At least at the end of the Eisenhower projects the USA got roads to show for the spending, and with this new spending, the USA could have built power plants that get the USA out of the middle east, but the age of government for the sake of government is upon us, and the useful idiots line up and believe empty promises.
The pentagon (and Bechtel, Kroll, Bluewater, Halliburton, etc) could get less than half of what they get today, but that will fix nothing fundamental in terms of government spending. It is simply not enough to make a difference when compared to the Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security entitlements.
See: YouTube - US Government Immorality Will Lead to Bankruptcy [youtube.com]
- If Obama thinks its ok to lie to 300 million people about being able to "take care of them" without even being honest about what that care would look like, then being an idiot and believing in Obama is for you.
- The head of the IRS and the head of the Treasury, Geithner, is a Tax Cheat
- Lied about no lobbyists - their numbers are growing.
- The US Government already have over 50% of the budget on Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security. Socialists: Good job on that one, its working great. Solution to the current near-collapse-due-to-over-spending: add more unfunded entitlements!
- You Socialist-liars can break my spirit and my financial back to force me to "need" a federal government that is turning this country into a police state and turn it into a quasi-socialist lie, but I will, I must put up a fight. I have kids to educate and feed, and the stuff you sell (which is failing to various degrees everywhere else as implemented) is simply forcing a culture of failure on a once great, libertarian free country.
- I will not be complacent with your "change," and there will be a point where civil war will become an option. See how hard you can push before you get it. How much more than half can the truly productive workers in this country afford to pay. Keep pushing to find out how to start a civil war.
- The socialist-lie of a plan will not work, its not fundable, it WILL destroy the currency to fund it, and its really as simple as this: if this insanity is funded by borrowing from the US's economic and military adversaries then Obama and his socialist cabal is NOT fit to administrate society. Rome fell. Kings who mis-manged their treasuries all fell. Every example of unhinged spending leads to the same result: systemic collapse.
- Obama and his sycophantic lunatics would want to have a civil war to get Chairman Obama's way and force the socialist-lie system on my already tax paying law abiding ass. And as far as "no new taxes" for those under 250k, its a lie, the tax is called inflation, which is set to begin just about now that the Chinese wont want the USA's worthless treasuries to fund the socialist-lie fantasy (one that COMMUNIST China doesn't even try and sell to its people!)
- Chairman Obama's numbers don't add up. There is a $59 trillion dollar hole (UFDO) in social security alone. AIG $150 billion here, TARP $350 billion there. $800 billion for a highly dubious stimulus package. Another one on the way. $59 trillion hole in the balance sheet IGNORED. China saying they aren't going to buy treasuries, Clinton clamoring to find buyers now. $3.6 trillion dollar budget, potential military action on Mexico, Iran still a "terrorist state" at the behest of the AIPAC, spending up, dollar about to fall, inflation over time since Breton Woods extremely easy to document, yet, the socialist-liars question when the numbers (the Federal Government numbers) simply don't add up to the point where if the US-GOV was a company it would be insolvent.
  -How dare the taxpayers question what Chairman Obama's drastic spending increases are going to do to the purchasing power of our savings because Chairman Obama wants to recklessly spend and try to maintain and American empire AND guarantee a standard of living, and Chairman Obama doesn't even want to build a single nuclear power plant to do it? Chairman Obama must be a complete and total lunatic moron.
- Obama is either a negligent idiot or an unhinged maniac with delusional fantasies. Meanwhile, Chainman Obama's tax dodging Treasury Secretary has 17 unfilled positions, the Treasury Dept. isn't even functioning at this point.
- "General welfare" in the constitution was, according to the man who wrote it, Madison, meant to be extremely limited in scope. The federal government per the constitution doesn't even have the enumerated POWER to deal with economic messes. A lot of these "POWERS" were created while there is a crisis to dupe the public into accepting an un-constitutional authoritarian regime as the government and to usurp authority over the people.
- The USA is a constitutional republic. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting to eat a sheep. Also a constitutional republic isn't about using a barely-majority or a plurality to stuff your (un-fundable disastrous) crap down the disenfranchised other-half's throat.
- With Obama's authoritarian corrupted criminal (aiding and abetting a criminal in flight of prosecution, Rich case) Eric Holder in charge, we won't have our inalienable and enumerated rights to firearms much longer. For a constitutional law expert, Obama must have never read the federalist papers or he would simply hand himself as a traitor.
- The arbitrary expansion of "general welfare" is not only unconstitutional, it may very well lead to a serious conflict on the issue.
- Here is a debate on general welfare and how stuff like this came to pass, but was clearly no intended by the authors of the document of root law.
In Federalist No. 41, James Madison asked rhetorically: "For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power?" (In reference to the general welfare clause)
So strongly did the founders believe that "general welfare" wouldn't be expanded as written:
In Federalist No. 84, Alexander Hamilton indirectly confirmed Madison's point. (That the "general welfare" clause was "clearly" nota free pass for government)
Hamilton argued that a bill of rights, which many were clamoring for, would be not only unnecessary, but dangerous. Since the federal government was given only a few specific powers, there was no need to add prohibitions: it was implicitly prohibited by the listed powers. If a proposed law a relief act, for instance wasn't covered by any of these powers, it was unconstitutional.
"why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed?"
Hamilton goes on to argue that making Amendments (e.g., enumerating Free speech, press and assembly) and enumerating the 'right' would have the following effect:
(A bill of rights) "would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretence for claiming that power that is, a power to regulate the press, short of actually shutting it down. "
"With respect to the words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers (enumerated in the Constitution) connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison [The US Supreme Court has found the meaning of "general welfare" in the Constitution to be much more elastic than did Mr. Madison. But as the "author of the Constitution," what does he know?]
James Madison, when asked if the "general welfare" clause was a grant of power, replied in 1792, in a letter to Henry Lee,

If not only the means but the objects are unlimited, the parchment [the Constitution] should be thrown into the fire at once.

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government , and to provide new Guards for their future security. ...--The Declaration of Independence
- Wrong, monetizing failures causes more. Japan showed us this for decades. But hey, Chairman Obama thinks you can fix a problem DECADES in the making with a quick fixer-upper, he is screwed in the head.
- The complaints are with the Federal government (in general) since Breton Woods. The Federal Government and Obama's minions STILL didn't listen to David Walker, a Clinton appointee and former head of the GAO. This isn't about political parties anymore morons!
- Show me a single federal budget that was less than the previous. If this $3.6T budget goes, its never coming back barring systemic collapse.
- The United States Federal Government, The United States Federal Reserve, and the banks which were enabled to continue down reckless paths by a quasi government agency known as the Federal Reserve whose actions are not subject to congress and whose members are unelected. This situation is untenable and unconstitutional.
- Every inflationary road taken in history ends in collapse. Keynesian policies are widely regarded as no longer workable.
- Inflation is a tax: What ignorant tax and spenders don't take into account here is the relative percentages of people's wealth (both net and gross) and the costs of owning and maintaining houses, cars, standards of living.
- Inflation via deficit spending is going to make it such that you will be paying a lot more by percentage of your income to maintain a given standard of living. Obama's arguments are so poorly thought out and seek to blame "Republicans" for the mess, its really simply laughable - the needs cleanup now, not worsening.
- You can't spend your way out of a hole if the creditors (e.g. China) start telling the USA they won't buy. It is that simple. Now America starts to have to collateralize the debt with assets. The USA will be selling off chunks of American assets to back the new debt. One day, it may even be necessary to sell Alaska back to Russia because no one will take greenbacks to prop up a failing version of a modern Rome.
- Ah, here we go with the Matthew Lesko arguments. [lesko.com]
Interest rates were on the rise before the government stepped in with free money for everyone (the fine print of course indicate massive strings attached).
Other economies, for example, India, have the central rates set to far more reasonable/realistic rates (at the moment ~ 8+%), which is still tends to be too low, but shows that if you need someone else capital you need to pay a premium for it, and given that capital is in short supply, it would stand to reason that a premium must be charged for it.
The problem is the unrealistic growth rates of mature economies don't allow for profiting via growth projections (rather than simply earning money). So the government steps in, turns on the free money spigot, gets the interest rates for savings down in the 1-2% range while diluting the value of the whole currency in order to prop up dying companies that ran the business like a Madhoff Ponzi scheme.
- The Republicans aren't solely responsible for the crisis as Obama's minions would have you believe, congress is (no particular congress), the Executive of the US government (no particular one) and the US Federal Reserve System are all at fault.
- Fundamentally, the government is trying to fix the prices of various things to "make it all work." This pulling on the invisible hand is a fools venture. It was predicted long ago the housing collapse (and those, such as myself, in the know, wished while realizing the housing collapse coming that we were wrong for everyone's sake - but the truth is the truth) . It may be that the Austrian (von Mises) economists will ultimately be proven right.
- We are a nation of partially educated whiney grabby idiots, and we got the government that represents this. The Chinese, India and other up and coming nations will show no mercy for this arrogant abuse of our status as the world's forex reserves.
- War and asset sales will continue to be the only option for this scheme until it is corrected at the core. And to say that the government has already averted a depression by doing what they did (most of the monies injected wont be "felt" for some time), is just arrogance and stupidity. Price fixing prolonged the Great Depression. Price-fixing (or attempting to) houses will do the same, but probably worse.
- Obama's minions simply don't care if the US is bankrupted and rendered insolvent, they just want a say in how its done, presumably to "feel safe." Rather selfish.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." AND "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (Possibly Richard Jackson)

- Everyone better realize that inflation will pay a major role in funding un-fundable fantasies, wiping the savers and the middle class out. The problem is, that other countries are growing tired of making our Federal Reserve notes worth something by buying our debt as treasuries. Obama's minions talk about spending, but in order to "get what YOU want" you will sell debt to potential economic and military adversaries? Real bright. What's really sad is that despite David Walker being an authority on these issues, people refuse to even watch him and listen to what he is saying.
- On the success of Canada and its form of Socialism: A huge country like Canada with massive amounts of uranium and tar sands and natural resources and a huge land mass with a scant 30 million people is an order of magnitude less of a problem to manage than a country with 10x its population, a serious leaky southern border, backfiring aggressive foreign policy, particularly with Iran, and the US is competing with countries like India and China whose middle classes are larger than the US's entire population. The top 5 students in every Indian and Chinese primary school out numbers all the kids in primary school in the US. Canada is a idyllic island, the USA is front and center in an all out economic and political clash of ideologies.
- Cap and trade (and pollution control for solving global problems) will never work unless the top 10 countries in the world (in terms of both GDP and manufacturing capacity and population) are on board. Period end. If the world doesn't quickly move to nuclear now and fusion shortly, it is OVER possibly not if every home on the planet gets a wind vane, but that seems unlikely to happen (since its possible now).
- Keynes calls it "the paradox of thrift" and suggested that policies forcing people not to save is a "good idea." The guy wanted people spending all the time, or if he didn't, he never conveyed that to his protégés well enough for them to not do what they are doing. Right now the plebeians in the US are actually stashing cash, and everyone from Obama to the media is trying to get people to spend spend spend. The best thing for the long term is for people to prepare for the coming hell, not set out with no reserves.
- I have seen Keynes invoked to justify nearly every bad move in the past decade, and its warming up to be a potential currency collapse, the collapse of the US Treasury and Federal Reserve notes, and a collapse of the NYSE. And then they invoke Keynes to suggest the best way out of the mess is to spend out of an already near-critically debt massed black hole.
- A house is run like a town is run like a country or business is run like a state is run like a government. If there are things the government is doing that would either force your home into bankruptcy or into jail via fraud charges, then the government and banks shouldn't be operating in that fashion. A certain degree of stretchy liquidity is in order, but in terms of percent of GDP, there is no way of justifying what they US has now.
- Iceland failed at 850 percent debt to GDP. The US is at 350 and rising. It is not a good thing at all.
- What is happening to the dollar as a forex standard. [youtube.com]
- March 19, 2009 C-SPAN - "Let's Quit Destroying Our Dollar!" [youtube.com]
- HR 1207 (A bill to make the Fed more accountable and to answer questions regarding the dollar policy) [loc.gov]

Title: Obama sidetracked by fiscal mess, but presses on [yahoo.com]
"Being heard above the din may prove difficult. Lawmakers are wrangling over taxing people who got big bonuses and worrying the president's budget could generate $9.3 trillion in red ink over the next decade."
- Kremlin to pitch new global currency [infowars.com]
Russia proposes creation of global super-reserve currency

Holy crap, even the Russians and Chinese get it. Strange days are here.
fff

First Post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326085)

First Post

It was nice while it lasted (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326109)

I love Last.fm
I'm a regular listener and found many new interesting bands. Not only have I bought their albums, but also went to local concerts that I wouldn't have heard about otherwise.
I will NEVER pay for an internet service.
Remains the question: Are there any alternatives?

Re:It was nice while it lasted (4, Funny)

Rathum (1406047) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326133)

Pandora Radio [pandora.com] is a good one.

Re:It was nice while it lasted (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326171)

Pandora Radio [pandora.com] is a good one.

Yes, it's a great alternative....

visiting the pandora.com homepage =

Dear Pandora Visitor,

We are deeply, deeply sorry to say that due to licensing constraints, we can no longer allow access to Pandora for listeners located outside of the U.S. We will continue to work diligently to realize the vision of a truly global Pandora, but for the time being we are required to restrict its use. We are very sad to have to do this, but there is no other alternative.

We believe that you are in Australia (your IP address appears to be x.x.x.x). If you believe we have made a mistake, we apologize and ask that you please contact us at pandora-support@pandora.com

Re:It was nice while it lasted (1)

luas_dublin (1244124) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326191)

Pandora Radio [pandora.com] is a good one.

Nope. it's U.S. only , so as an alternative to a site which is now charging outside the us/uk/de its a bit pointless really.....

Re:It was nice while it lasted (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326207)

GP is a big fat idiot.

Re:It was nice while it lasted (1)

Rathum (1406047) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326221)

Pandora Radio [pandora.com] is a good one.

Nope. it's U.S. only , so as an alternative to a site which is now charging outside the us/uk/de its a bit pointless really.....

Totally slipped my mind that he might have been out of the country.

I must be more tired than I thought if I forgot what the story was about 5 minutes in...

Re:It was nice while it lasted (1)

umghhh (965931) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326503)

which is available only in US.

Re:It was nice while it lasted (2, Informative)

pinkushun (1467193) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326671)

Pandora and spotify.com both don't serve as far abroad as our unknown country of South Africa :p I would gladly pay for this service, if only I could afford the bandwidth to stream the music in the first place, that would be grand...

Re:It was nice while it lasted (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326177)

www.spotify.com
www.spotylist.com

Re:It was nice while it lasted (3, Informative)

BRSloth (578824) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326287)

Well, not quite. It seems Spotify is available through Europe, but not much outside it (at least, it says it's not available in Australia.)

Re:It was nice while it lasted (4, Informative)

Monsieur_F (531564) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326793)

Is deezer [deezer.com] available in Australia ?

Re:It was nice while it lasted (5, Insightful)

RuBLed (995686) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326237)

I will NEVER pay for an internet service.

I'm with you AC except for that line. If you are willing to pay for a tangible thing or a real world service that you love, why not an internet based one? Or you only love it because it was free and nothing else? I find that reasoning very popular with other people too. Any insights why people?

Re:It was nice while it lasted (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326407)

Yes I'm willing to elaborate.,

When I pay for a product I expect something from it. Tangible things are just that, tangible. I have it now, I have it tomorrow, so the value retains.
When I pay for a 'real world service', I do so reluctantly. I do this only because:
a: Law dictates it. For example car insurance.
b: I can't do it myself in a realistic manner.
Internet services are even further out of the question, since I
a: Get nothing out of it,
b: I can do it myself better.

Re:It was nice while it lasted (5, Insightful)

MrAngryForNoReason (711935) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326499)

Internet services are even further out of the question, since I
a: Get nothing out of it,
b: I can do it myself better

What is the problem then? If you get nothing out of Last.FM as an internet service, and can do better yourself then create your own streaming music service.

The contradiction of saying that you get nothing out of a service while at the same time complaining you don't have access to it is clear. As is the arrogance of saying that internet services have no worth because 'I can do it myself better'. If you can then why don't you?

Your argument that a service has no value because it doesn't offer something you can keep is rather flawed. Would you not buy a hotdog because you can only eat it once? Would you not go to the theatre or cinema because it is a finite experience?

Re:It was nice while it lasted (1)

Randy Savage (1465063) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326657)

I can make coffee better, but I still buy it at the coffee shop before work because I have better things to do with my time.

Re:It was nice while it lasted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326731)

Yeah, because dropping a coffee pod into the machine and pressing the button takes soooo long...

Re:It was nice while it lasted (4, Informative)

daniorerio (1070048) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326775)

He was talking about making *better* coffee, which includes grinding beans on a regular basis to ensure you have fresh coffee...

Re:It was nice while it lasted (5, Insightful)

totally bogus dude (1040246) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326561)

Those last responses don't hold up to even a superficial analysis.

a: Get nothing out of it

It's already been established that the person in question (possibly you) "loved" the last.fm service and used it regularly, so claiming they "get nothing out of it" is obviously hogwash.

b: I can do it myself better

This isn't always the case, and in this particular example doesn't seem to be. The OP stated they'd found new bands via the last.fm service, so at the very least last.fm must have music s/he/you doesn't have. Further, last.fm has access to a large database of listening habits it can use to recommend things to you, which is something which I'm pretty sure even a mighty AC doesn't have. Also, are there any alternatives? implies knowledge that it is providing something they can't provide themself (or they can't provide themself, if you're the same AC).

I think the "tangible" argument seems reasonable, in a completely unrational kind of way (but we're humans, so we're supposed to be irrational). So, last.fm is a streaming service where you'd be paying for an "experience" rather than an actual product you can keep. What about paying for music or games or videos that you download, rather than coming in a box? Are these intangible as well, even though you can interact with it and keep it forever (I'm assuming no DRM so you can make backups and burn physical copies and so on)? Where does the line between "tangible" and "intangible" get drawn, for you?

Assuming you pay for your internet connection, what makes that tangible? It is, after all, just a service that will cease to be of any benefit to you if you stop paying the monthly fee. What about electricity bills?

I guess these fall under the "cannot do myself" reasoning; what I don't understand is why internet services are automatically excluded from this, despite it being quite obvious that there's a lot of things you can't reasonably do yourself that others can. Yes, you could build your own last.fm-like service and somehow get loads of people to use it, but I don't think it meets the "reasonably" criteria; as in, it'd be a fuckload of work. But somehow not having to do all of that work while still enjoying the benefits it'd bring isn't worth a few dollars a month?

Re:It was nice while it lasted (4, Interesting)

ross.w (87751) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326597)

I don't pay for the radio I listen to over the air. Why would I pay for it just because it comes from a web site?

Quality? (5, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326723)

I recently was in the market for a new soundcard. Not just a soundcard but one that does 5.1 and EAX support for the games I play.

This is harder then it sounds because Creative is shooting straight for the bottom. Their new X-fi chip is so bad they had to allow a third party to use it to get a decent soundcard out. Oh well, luckily I am dutch and I could test the X-fi myself, simply by buying it, running it over the weekend, then returning it on monday when it didn't work out. Full money back. Tried another sound card, returned that too, money back.

Free internet services can pull all kind of crap but the moment I pay for something I am protected by dutch law. Not american "companies own your ass" laws, not british "we want to be american" laws, but dutch laws. The only country in the world where Sony was FORCED to replace ALL PSP's with any defective pixels and this policy has affected all LCD's for years. Pixel warranty? Only for those silly enough not to know the law.

Can Last.FM stand up to this? Can they provide a service with which I will be satisfied 100% or money back, no questions asked? Of course not.

That for me is the difference between paying for something and something being free. I expect and demand and have the law on my side to get my money worth. Even if it is "only" three euro. Frankly I have tried last.fm several times and their service is pretty bad. Spotty loading, slow, lack of pre-buffering and their recommendation system is hazy. It can't even tell bands apart so it will happily mix completely opposite music styles just because one band that is in the style you look for has the same name.

3 euro's? No thanks.

Re:It was nice while it lasted (4, Interesting)

umghhh (965931) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326259)

NEVER is a strong word. It seems there are limits what current business models can do and what you seem to like so much i.e. fee free service may not be feasible in nearest future due to the fact that advertising revenue is not there.

There has been an article on Economist website about the end of the free lunch. [economist.com] The article itself is rather simplistic but what can you expect from economists - anybody that reads news recently should know that they ain't that smart either. They maybe onto something though - majority of web services will need some other revenue than advertising or it will collapse. Whether this eliminates the whole business model I doubt but we are going to see anyway.

Re:It was nice while it lasted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326373)

but what can you expect from economists - anybody that reads news recently should know that they ain't that smart either

Well, they may not be that smart, but, putting this in perspective, there have been thousands of IT people implementing their ideas into software ... and these guys didn't see anything coming as well.

Re:It was nice while it lasted (3, Insightful)

u38cg (607297) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326595)

I think the reason it is simplistic is because the issue is simplistic: run an online service paid for by advertising to your users and you are not likely to be profitable, end of story.

Re:It was nice while it lasted (5, Insightful)

ItsColdOverHere (928704) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326289)

Shoutcast to the rescue, yes you have no control over the track selection but it's free, the actual streaming providers are completely decentralised and I've found that recently I'm not really using the next and ban features of Last.fm. Yes Last.fm will be missed but it was by no means indispensible.

Re:It was nice while it lasted (2, Insightful)

Per Wigren (5315) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326329)

I'm willing to pay for good enough internet services (like Linux Weekly News [lwn.net] for example) though, but this is like a punch in the face. Most of the content in last.fm is fucking user contributed!

I also used to pay for Spotify [spotify.com] but I cancelled my account when they suddenly decided to drop just about all independent and small-label bands that they didn't have formal on-paper contracts with. 90% of my crust-punk and power-noise/industrial playlists went red because of that, and they still haven't re-added a single band that were dropped. At the same time they also implemented region-based limits.

Back to CDs I guess... or.. err.. what.cd? I dunno...

Re:It was nice while it lasted (1)

teg (97890) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326549)

I'm willing to pay for good enough internet services (like Linux Weekly News for example) though, but this is like a punch in the face. Most of the content in last.fm is fucking user contributed!

The content they are going to be charging for, streamed music, is not user created - the web sites, scrobbling etc. should continue like now, if I read them right. I've been a subscriber for a while, and I greatly prefer their approach to the Pandora approach (no access outside the US).

Re:It was nice while it lasted (2, Insightful)

headLITE (171240) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326341)

I will NEVER pay for an internet service.

Okay, you're certainly within your rights in chosing to never pay for an internet service. So, in your ideal world, who exactly should be paying? There is a substantial cost involved in offering services on the internet to a large group of users, especially bandwidth-intensive services such as streaming music. On top of that, you have to pay a license or royalties. So who should pay for that, if the beneficiary of these offerings, the end user, is already taken out of the equation? Sure, free lunches are nice, but how do you explain that you should be the only one who should be getting one, and why other people (such as the operators of last.fm) should be paying for your free lunch?

Re:It was nice while it lasted (2, Interesting)

macshit (157376) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326451)

I'd guess that most people have a slightly more nuanced position. Mine is roughly: "sure I'll pay a reasonable fee for your service -- but then you need to not suck."

Last.fm, of course, fails with flying colors.

I think that becoming a paid service inevitably results in hugely increased expectations from your customers, even if the fee is relatively small.

[I sometimes use last.fm -- but mostly because it's free, not because it's any good.]

Re:It was nice while it lasted (1)

myforwik (1465003) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326345)

Never heard of it. I asked everyone and they had never heard of it either. Pay to stream music! hahah good one. Stream music? hahah stupid.

Re:It was nice while it lasted (2, Informative)

JohnBailey (1092697) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326351)

I love Last.fm
I'm a regular listener and found many new interesting bands. Not only have I bought their albums, but also went to local concerts that I wouldn't have heard about otherwise.
I will NEVER pay for an internet service.
Remains the question: Are there any alternatives?

Last I checked, Deezer seemed ok. Not as many clients, but still fairly good. www.deezer.com

Re:It was nice while it lasted (1)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326527)

I will NEVER pay for an internet service.

And since internet services don't grow in nature and someone has to provide the content, hosting, bandwidth, labor etc, your statement can be translated as: I want somebody else to pay for the internet services I use, waaaaaaaa...

Depends (5, Insightful)

Gothic_Walrus (692125) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326129)

has this killed Last.fm's appeal, globally?

Depends on what they're using it for. I might be a minority, but I hardly ever use the radio feature - I use the site as a way to track what I've been listening to, and use the recommendations to find new artists to buy or download from iTunes or Amazon.

Re:Depends (1)

WoLpH (699064) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326515)

Same here, I only use last.fm (as I did with audioscrobbler in the past) as a log of what I listen to so I can find music I like to hear.

I've never used the streaming feature as I didn't see much use to it.

Huge database (4, Interesting)

Extremus (1043274) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326131)

They have a huge database of listening habits and cannot make money on it. It will be a good example of incompetence.

Re:Huge database (1)

umghhh (965931) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326531)

This can be incompetence or maybe the market situation today does not provide money for such DBs? Whether this is the end of certain business model or not is another matter but in their case it seems to be.

What interests me here however is why single out Germany, UK and US? What is so different there?

Re:Huge database (2, Informative)

1stvamp (662375) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326579)

Germany, UK and US are where they have their licensing deals, so they make advertising and referral money off streams within those countries.

Re:Huge database (3, Insightful)

1stvamp (662375) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326569)

No, they just have a policy of not selling on their DB to third parties, that huge DB of listening habits is used for the service alone.

Many people care about "free" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326135)

... including those who appear to care more aboute "Free".

Perhaps advertising simply does not support Last.FM's licensing deals, and the outlay that they have- people have had the benefit of a few years of free streamed music, and obviously enjoyed it. Now they are being asked to pay what seems to me to be a reasonable sum, they are complaining that it is no longer free - a destructive approach to something which has a real world cost associated with it.

Re:Many people care about "free" (4, Informative)

BRSloth (578824) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326269)

Perhaps advertising simply does not support Last.FM's licensing deals

Yes, it does. One of the comments there, by the same author of the post, says that the revenue from ads in USA, UK and Germany are enough to pay for the bandwidth and licensing fees they have to pay. Everywhere else, it's not enough and that's why they are charging other countries.

Re:Many people care about "free" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326437)

Everywhere else, it's not enough

And so they need to charge for them, as their ad services do not support the licensing deals.

There are plenty of complaints on here about treating different countries differently - and charging one territory and not another would seem to be doing just that, hence one overall cahrge.

(same AC as OP)

Re:Many people care about "free" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326737)

I am clearly thick. The charges only relate to territories where ad revenue is insufficient, so, yes, there's territorial discrimination, based on usage.

Where's the problem?

Re:Many people care about "free" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326749)


Everywhere else, it's not enough and that's why they are charging other countries.

And that's why there will be a competitor that will emerge and that will be better adapted to those markets and will dominate there.

Just like Google is really not that big in Asia (no one uses Google in South Korea [less than 3%, Naver is the way], Chinese use Baidu, Japanese use Yahoo, and so on), or in Russia.

So long and thanks for all the free music! (1, Troll)

barbazoo (604828) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326139)

Dear last.fm,

I have deleted my account because of this ethnic discrimination.

Cheers,

barbazoo

Re:So long and thanks for all the free music! (2, Informative)

Neon Aardvark (967388) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326189)

I was sickened when Pandora blocked non-US IPs (used to really enjoy that service).

Now this. Oh well.

Re:So long and thanks for all the free music! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326231)

I was sickened when Pandora blocked non-US IPs (used to really enjoy that service).

Likewise. However, while I wouldn't pay for Last.fm, I would pay for Pandora. Its expert-assisted classification of music was truly amazing for finding music of similar style across time, artists, styles, countries.

Sadly they never gave us this option, and instead just cut us off.

Re:So long and thanks for all the free music! (2, Informative)

BRSloth (578824) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326305)

I was sickened when Pandora blocked non-US IPs (used to really enjoy that service).

Well, Last.fm will be available outside US, UK and Germany, you just have to pay a fee (or find a nice proxy to stream through it.)

Re:So long and thanks for all the free music! (1)

BlackSabbath (118110) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326547)

Me too.

Now, where's me bottle o' rum? Aaaarrrrrr!

Re:So long and thanks for all the free music! (2, Insightful)

teg (97890) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326583)

Dear last.fm, I have deleted my account because of this ethnic discrimination.

  1. It's not ethnical discrimination - that would be charging e.g. people of Chinese origin living in Germany, but not the rest.
  2. They're doing it because they have ad departments in these three countries, and this is where they get the revenue. Not sure why they couldn't just do google or similar, but I guess they have looked into it.

I've been a subscriber for a while because I liked the added features at the time (artist and tag radios), and 3 (see if you can pay in GBP, that's a lot cheaper ;) a month is close to nothing if you get any value from the service. I pay even more for spotify, and I'm happy with that too.

Re:So long and thanks for all the free music! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326765)

Ignorrant cretin.

They're charging in countries other than the US, UK, and Germany because of licensing issues within those countries.

Do you think they WANT to charge you? If they did, they'd charge everybody. It just so happens that the advertising revenue covers the cost of streaming content within Germany, the US, and the UK. There is no such deal outside of those countries.

So, boohoo you can't get your music for free anymore. Grow up. You always have to pay for a service. It's either advert supported and you pay with time listening / reading them, or it's subscription supported and you pay with money.

The internet is not 'free' as in beer. Hardware costs money. Sorry.

When will these companies learn? (2, Insightful)

yo303 (558777) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326147)

Music wants to be free.

(Also movies, games, software and books. Porn is already free.)

Re:When will these companies learn? (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326291)

No, music wants to snort lines of cocaine off your sister's ass. That ain't free.

Re:When will these companies learn? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326543)

The cocaine isn't, your sister is :)

Re:When will these companies learn? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326333)

So what you're saying is Music, Movies, Games, Software and Books want to join Porn? Be sure to tape this orgy of freedom when it happens.

Note: (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326169)

If your business's main appeal is not charging users, then unless you are extremely lucky you are not going to stay in business past when your VC runs out. Free is mostly fantasy, no matter how much cheap-ass users think otherwise.

Now, whether 3 Euros is too much or too little is up for debate. Even while it's free for me, I've find little appeal to it -- too inconvenient to get music I want, yet the installed app is too intrusive. The playlist stuff was mucked up in my short time as an active user, and that was the catchy thing about it - being able both to track your list, show it to people (e.g., on dating and social sites), and look at other people's lists.

Frankly, I have better luck just buying CDs and singles from iTunes and Amazon and I'm willing to pay much more for the convenience and quality.

Wait a sec.... (2, Interesting)

NoPantsJim (1149003) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326197)

Last.fm streams? This is news to me, and I've been using it for about 4 years to "scrobble" music.

Global access = good (2, Interesting)

Gible (526142) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326199)

At least you can still access it globally unlike Hulu etc

Pandora (1)

mischi_amnesiac (837989) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326215)

This sounds exactly like what happened to Pandora in 2007 when it stopped working for users outside of the US because of licensing issues.

From the comments: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326227)

"For â3.00 I could set up a VPN in one of those countries and at the same time get around these types of restrictions in other places. So thanks but no thanks, my respect for you dropped quite a lot when you chose to play favorites."

(Edited for passable spelling) /discussion

Just a bump in pricing? (1)

BRSloth (578824) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326229)

One thing I couldn't get a straight answer:

Right now, the site subscription is 2.50/month. The blog mentions that the price to keep streaming songs on the radios will be 3.00/month. It seems that, what's happening is that streaming will be available only to subscribers and the subscription price will be bumped 0.50/month.

But heck, I couldn't get a answer, since they seem to be ignoring the whole discussion after a lot of people started complaining about the geographical subscription requirements.

At least it will kill its usage... (3, Interesting)

fmstasi (659633) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326235)

I started using last.fm only a few months ago; I configured amarok to scrobble the music I listen, then once in a while I use last.fm streams to discover new music with my neighbors' radio. I would'nt pay the admittedly low fee of 3$/month only for this, so I will simply stop using it. I guess the vast majority of users will do the same.

Well, there is this great alternative (2, Informative)

damburger (981828) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326241)

There is a service that delivers you complete albums, for free, whenever you want - and works in any country.

Its called 'bittorrent'

Re:Well, there is this great alternative (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326639)

Yes, they have to remember against what they compete. And I still have deezer available.
I am disappointed but hardly surprised. I wonder how long last.fm could sustain itself with close to no source of revenue. It should be something that is sponsored by records not something they make pay for. Thanks to last.fm, there are three new great groups I discover that I am willing to sponsor. How, a perfect "ask slashdot" moment : Will the artists get a bigger share of my money if I buy a tour ticket or a CD ? I'll listen to mp3 anyway but I want to pay them something...

The free Internet was fun, its over (4, Insightful)

martijnd (148684) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326299)

This is simply a realization that free won't pay for their massive bandwidth costs (and no doubt the royalties they need to pay).

A million websites have been launched, and died, after their operators realized that advertising could never cover their costs.

If you look around, banners for sites that have 2 million page views p/month go for as low as US$ 45 p/month. Even if you plaster a site with them you can't scrape a living out of this. Sure, some struck it lucky, but most will die.

Facebook, Twitter, cool toys, but dead men walking ; and they will be replaced after they die. Will you pay a monthly subscription fee to use either one of them?

Facebook is just a blog, a few hacks can string existing blogs together and create the same functionality. Twitter can be done in P2P fashion.

The good times were good, now the money men come calling.

Re:The free Internet was fun, its over (1)

smart.id (264791) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326465)

I'm not sure what you mean by Facebook and Twitter as "dead man walking." Aren't these two of the fastest growing websites (in terms of members) on the internet? (And if you mean "they'll die eventually" then you too are a dead man walking...)

Facebook is just a blog? What the fuck are you talking about? Have you used the website?

How could Twitter be done in "P2P fashion"? Do we all put our tweets in text files and add them to a big torrent?

Re:The free Internet was fun, its over (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326519)

I'm not sure what you mean by Facebook and Twitter as "dead man walking." Aren't these two of the fastest growing websites (in terms of members) on the internet?

And how much money do they make off each of those members? I'm guessing that's what he means.

Re:The free Internet was fun, its over (5, Insightful)

Elrond, Duke of URL (2657) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326651)

I'm not sure what you mean by Facebook and Twitter as "dead man walking." Aren't these two of the fastest growing websites (in terms of members) on the internet? (And if you mean "they'll die eventually" then you too are a dead man walking...)

Wild inaccuracies aside, I think the GP meant that, so far, Facebook has yet to turn a profit. It's getting bigger and bigger and becoming ever more full of features, but there business plan seems to be "if we get big enough, we'll eventually make money through scaling".

I don't know, though... given their vast userbase and the site's general usefulness (*so* much better than Myspace ever was), it really seems like they should be making a good deal of money. But they're not. Even venture capitalists will only throw money at something for so long. :)

Re:The free Internet was fun, its over (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326725)

Do you remember how it all started ? People sharing disk space and bandwidth ? If you don't need to pay royalties, it is not hard to have movies sharing websites. Look at the first bittorrent tracker that's available. Would it be made legal, many open source solutions would appear to maintain the video memory of the 20th century (that is slowly fading, that will never become 'culture' as the XIXth is today)

The real money behind facebook is not online ads, it is consumers database.

I agree that facebook and twitter are unnecessary and should not even exist.

Spotify (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326307)

I'd recommend people in Europe use Spotify. I've been using it instead of Last.fm for a while now.

Proxies (1)

amazeofdeath (1102843) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326337)

I wouldn't mind a small charge for the service, if it was collected from every user, regardless of where they live. As an "international" Last.fm user, this seems quite unfair practice, so either I'll stop using the service, or use a proxy in one of the three countries mentioned.

Re:Proxies (1)

Trahloc (842734) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326631)

So the fact that the US/UK/Germany users actually buy things off last.fm providing enough non subscription based revenue to cover bandwidth and licensing should be overlooked? Or do you think that these countries revenue should be spread out to the international community like last.fm was some sort of red cross of music?

Re:Proxies (1)

amazeofdeath (1102843) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326673)

How does that justify the non-subscribers in those countries not paying the mandatory fee for international users?

charge 1 Euro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326343)

I wonder of a 1 Euro price tag would have worked. At that rate it sounds kinda trivial but would add up to at least 3 or 4 Euros a month when it's adopted by the masses.

(sorry not good with maths)

What about Spotify? (4, Insightful)

Biotech9 (704202) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326355)

I haven't touched last.fm since I got spotify. I've heard it's not available world-wide, but seeingas it's free and legal, surely this is the future of public music?

It has an iTunes-ish inerface, but has access to millions of artists, and the normal selection of radio-stations. As Well as the great features of being able to make and share play-lists with friends or create an open playlist for a party.

Do many people here use it? IS it a known service? And does anyone want an invite?

Re:What about Spotify? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326425)

+ 100... in Europe Last.fm has been totally sideswiped by Spotify.

Re:What about Spotify? (1)

De Lemming (227104) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326661)

Free access isn't available here in Belgium, and premium accounts are 9,99 euro/month...

From the Spotify FAQ:
What countries is Spotify available in?
We've released our free advertising supported version in Sweden, Norway, Finland, the UK, France and Spain. In most other countries Spotify Premium is available for purchase.
When will Spotify Free be available in my country?
At this time we don't know when we may launch in more countries.

Re:What about Spotify? (0, Offtopic)

rudlavibizon (948703) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326611)

I'd like an invite please :). My email is my user name at gmail.com. Thanks. Maybe we should send invites to all our last.fm friends? This subscription just seems wrong, instead of offering more features, like listening to whole albums, they discriminate people by their IP address. I know nothing is free but since we contributed by scrobbling I think we deserve more. Not to mention developers who contributed to their client. I happily subscribe to flickr because I get MORE for a pro account. I actually stopped pirating because of last.fm and now I have to go back to soulseek and torrent. I feel like a fool because I recommended last.fm to so many people. Come march 30th, i'm deleting the account.

Re:What about Spotify? (1)

Narls (703398) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326773)

I'd love an invite please! My email address is lastone379 at yahoo dot com. Once I'm in I'll be passing it on to all my (soon to be former) last.fm friends.

Economics, not discrimination (5, Insightful)

guyminuslife (1349809) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326357)

The big thing is international licensing. Pandora doesn't limit its services because it's xenophobic or because it thinks foreigners shouldn't be able to listen to online music---they do it because the copyright holders are nutty about controlling the markets abroad. I recall reading somewhere that the licensing costs generally don't justify the expenses for international audiences. (Something like this [pandora.com] .) So you can either block access to international traffic, or you can try to make it profitable. Last.fm probably isn't losing much (relatively speaking) by losing its international audience, but apparently they still want to keep their service available overseas.

So, to the posters above, please stop complaining about discrimination. This policy is most likely just the trickle-down piss from the record companies.

Re:Economics, not discrimination (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326461)

So they are rolling over for the music industry. Does this make the dicrimination OK?

Re:Economics, not discrimination (1)

Trahloc (842734) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326559)

They are rolling over because the license holders can take them to court and destroy their entire business if they don't pay. Unlike the average /. user who can hide within the crowd of millions of other bittorrent users, when your a corporation you need a physical presence somewhere. That means its easy to be served.

So you might call it discrimination, I call it self preservation.

Re:Economics, not discrimination (1)

not a serious person (1318583) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326575)

It is discrimination. It is even racial discrimination by the UN definition (distinction based on national origin). Whether it's done for xenophobic or economic reasons doesn't really matter for the victims; economic aspects have often played a role in discrimination and racism in history. Of course, it is not Pandora or last.fm that are to blame here, but (as always) the evil music industry.

Re:Economics, not discrimination (1)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326699)

They don't mention anything about licensing in the blog linked in the summary though. The only explanation they give is that only in those three countries there is enough advertising money to be made to pay for the subscribers in those countries.

Discrimination?! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326381)

Is this IP-based discrimination okay? We should have a (global, of course) law against it...you should neither be discriminated against because of skin, color, race, nor IP :)

Honestly, I *don't* like geographical borders re-emerging in the _global_ Internet world...this is not a good direction. Resist the beginnings!

Re:Discrimination?! (2, Insightful)

Trahloc (842734) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326607)

How about just fixing IP law so that after a few reasonable years it goes into the public domain. Then we don't need to add another law on top of all these broken laws. Fix the original problem, don't bandaid it with something that just makes it worse.

has this killed Last.fm's appeal, globally? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326427)

Yes.

Melbourne, Australia

Is this unfair restraint of trade? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326435)

If they are based in the EU can they stop people from other EU countries using their service?

Also, will i still be able to listen while i'm stuck in some god awful business hotel in france or spain?

Re:Is this unfair restraint of trade? (1)

Trahloc (842734) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326589)

I hope not, that would be horrible precedence. This isn't like they aren't allowing their service to be used in another country. They simply refuse to *pay* to transport their good to other countries. They have to pay for the bandwidth, it isn't free, so they choose not to pay to deliver it to you. If you want it then you just have to pay the delivery charge for a measly $3/mo. They aren't restraining trade, they simply aren't making it free. Yes licensing works into it as well but the bandwidth costs are the main defense against your argument.

Any alternatives? (1)

Sait-kun (922599) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326439)

Just wondering are there any alternatives for last.fm one where it doesn't matter where your from to listen to the radio? and @damburger, Bittorrent is not even close to an alternative if I want to download music I don't go to last.fm but if I want to keep track of what I listen and find new bands similar to the ones I listen to then I use last.fm and that is not something BT can provide.

Bittorrent ftw (5, Insightful)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326477)

Pandora, spotify, last.fm, Hulu. None of which are available in canada or most places outside the US. Bittorrent however is still free in both senses. That they couldn't roll these out internationally is bull. Maybe a few months lag time max to fix the deals internationally. Plus last.fm clearly has SOMETHING in place since they used to stream to everyone. It is somewhat amazing that i've been able to illegitimately listen to streaming music for 10 years now and business STILL hasn't got it right. I guess I should expect a good legit streaming show/movie site in about 2030.

I'm a paying user... (2, Insightful)

EddyPearson (901263) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326493)

I'm actually a Last.fm subscriber, and am more than happy to pay the meagre 3 euros, but being forced into it? Personally I don't use the paid features much at all, it's as much wanting to support the (excellent) service as it is trying to get value for money.

I wonder if they'll lose that sort of support when they move their business toward a more corporate stance.

Accounts can be closed (1)

s1lverl0rd (1382241) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326497)

I just deleted my last.fm account. You can do too. Go to Settings, then Data, then hit 'Delete account'. Don't forget to enter your password.

People will complain.... (2, Insightful)

bdptcob (789266) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326545)

About anything. Seriously, it's three dollars a month! I've had a subscription for some time now because I've found TONS of music I would have never found otherwise. Their streaming is great. If my ten cents a day helps keep them afloat and allows me to keep discovering new artists, it's completely worth it. And if you're that cheap anyway, hit up a proxy or do without. There are always shoutcasts and icecasts out there. They suck, but it's an alternative for the financially challenged.

Re:People will complain.... (1)

rudlavibizon (948703) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326655)

Yeah but it feels stupid to pay for something you had for free for so long and not have any bonuses for that while people who live in richer countries don't have to pay anything. In my country a lot of people don't even have credit cards so they most likely won't pay even if they can afford it. And there are a lot more poorer countries then mine.

Quid pro quo... (1)

jasquigl (950500) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326675)

Okay, so Last.fm's whole business is based on the listening habits data which we users provide.

So, let's make a deal, I'll let you keep using my data to keep your business working, and you don't charge me for listening to the streaming stations which, in effect, generate sales for the record companies.

Or, Last.fm can pay me â3 a month for the use of my data.

Re:Quid pro quo... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27326803)

Except that your last.fm data doesn't belong to you.

So long... (2, Funny)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326703)

...and thanks for all the tuna !

Hmm (1)

travbrad (622986) | more than 5 years ago | (#27326777)

I absolutely love the last.fm service, but I have to say I've barely even used the radio part of the site. As long as I can still find people with similar tastes and music recommendations I'll be happy. Still, it sucks that "international" users have to pay for a service that is free for Americans (for how long?).

I guess it makes sense that the radio is the only thing they are charging for though. That has to be where the vast majority of their bandwidth is used.

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