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KDE Project Invites Ideas With Online Brainstorm

timothy posted about 5 years ago | from the gnome-project-has-telepathy dept.

KDE 131

ruphus13 writes "In addition to working with the community for source code, KDE is looking to democratize idea creation and innovation via its new initiative called KDE Brainstorm. The initiative, which attempts to further decentralize roadmap decision-making by allowing popular ideas to be voted up, is outlined here: 'The KDE team recently announced the KDE Brainstorm initiative. KDE Brainstorm, in practice, works much like Dell's IdeaStorm — community members of all walks of life are invited to chip in their ideas for new and improved features and functions, with the wider community voting on (and fleshing out) these ideas. Ideas that generate enough interest are then reviewed further by developers, who work to make them happen. KDE Brainstorm officially rolled out March 20th, and the response over these first few days has been enthusiastic. In less than 24 hours, over 100 new ideas were proposed.'"

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131 comments

Give up (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27325875)

KDE is dead.

I got an idea (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27325883)

Fix those bugs, and make it usable.
It's really embarrassing to use kde 4.2 for 5 minutes and spot several visual glitches, after 30 minutes I'm off to gnome (which I despise, but at least it works (tm)).

Re:I got an idea (0, Troll)

Lord Lode (1290856) | about 5 years ago | (#27326729)

This is NOT a troll. What he says is a valid point. Can't you see what happened to KDE.

Re:I got an idea (1)

ultrabot (200914) | about 5 years ago | (#27326995)

This is NOT a troll. What he says is a valid point. Can't you see what happened to KDE.

Yes, it still has bugs. Hardly news on major rewrite.

It's still a troll.

Re:I got an idea (2, Interesting)

tuxgeek (872962) | about 5 years ago | (#27330281)

neither posts above are troll. seems the trolls have mod points today. Bad troll! No donut for you today

I use KDE full time. KDE 4.1 - 4.2.1 are still unusable
4.1 was a development snapshot, but when 4.2 was released it was promoted as equal to 3.5.10 - this is not the case.
I compiled 4.2.1 on FreeBSD over last weekend and found an irritating delay to user input: mouse click anything and start finger tapping for 30 seconds waiting for something to happen. Seems all user input and system response suffers long delays. The machine hard drive was active but on a 3Ghz - P4 system there should be no delay with simple desktop interaction. Perhaps it needs tweaking for low latency, but that is over my head at this point in time.

I dumped Gnome years ago for KDE so switching back is like the idea of chewing tin foil, so KDE 3.5.10 is still the cat's pajamas in my book.

Re:I got an idea (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | about 5 years ago | (#27328523)

Why is parent modded troll? I've been using KDE since 2001 and although I love the DE very much (and have filed over 200 bugs, participated in over 300 more), the current version completely lacks polish. There are glaring visual bugs, chopped text, and RTL issues all over the places. Worse, most of these bugs are marked as FIXED when they are excused as Qt bugs. The KDE devs don't use the UPSTREAM mark at all. Most of these bugs have tens of dupes, in particular regarding the icons (marked as UPSTREAM in Qt):
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158094 [kde.org]

While people stop to drool over my KDE 4.2 installation at university, if I show it off for more than 10 seconds I have to start making excuses as to why this or that does not work. That was fine for KDE 4.0 and 4.1 which KDE said was not intended for end users. It is not acceptable for KDE 4.2 which KDE markets as ready for end users.

Re:I got an idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27330137)

not only that, after one month of usage, the effects disable themselves, plasma slow down with 300MB of memory usage and everything becomes unusable, i use xfce sometimes but still download the latest versions of kde and give them a try, i know this kind of bugs will be resolved.

Bad move to 4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27325893)

Go back to 3.5 and restart. V4.X is going down fast. The methodology of those controls arent eficient.

Re:Bad move to 4 (1)

Psychotria (953670) | about 5 years ago | (#27325965)

The methodology of those controls arent eficient.

I don't understand. The study of the controls isn't efficient? Ok...

Re:Bad move to 4 (1)

Psychotria (953670) | about 5 years ago | (#27325973)

Actually, let me rephrase myself: The study of the method of the controls? My head hurts.

Re:Bad move to 4 (1)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | about 5 years ago | (#27326067)

It is a valid word [thefreedictionary.com] , though it does seem to break the standard meaning of -logy, doesn't it? Seems like there is at least one exception to every rule in English...

Re:Bad move to 4 (1)

Psychotria (953670) | about 5 years ago | (#27326213)

I have to agree with you; to a degree. Not only is 'methodology' a valid word, but its misuse has become so common that people routinely use 'methodology' when they really mean 'method'; almost as if the two are synonymous. And, in many peoples' minds, they are. But they're not. I'm not normally overly pedantic, but this is one of the few cases of misuse that really irks me. I don't really care about grammar or syntax (hey, I can't write for sh*t), but the use of that word (journals, I am looking at you) in the wrong context is an exception. 'Method' and 'Methodology' have two different, very distinct, meanings. I disagree about the word 'methodology' being exempt from the meaning of the -ology suffix "rule". /rant.

Thanks for replying though; it's more than most do ;-)

P.S. "I should not start sentences with 'And'". I am writing that on the blackboard 100 times as soon as I find a piece of chalk. Actually, no I'm not. What a silly rule.

Re:Bad move to 4 (1)

dov_0 (1438253) | about 5 years ago | (#27326627)

And I agree with you.

The approach that KDE has taken to controls is pretty darn good in my books. Installed a test case in a household of several computer illiterate international students. Not a problem. If they can manage the controls fine, then pretty much anyone can (barring bigots and anal-retentives who still think that everyone has to learn the CLI or stick to one OS etc. of course).

*storm (2, Insightful)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | about 5 years ago | (#27325909)

First Dell's IdeaStorm*, then Ubuntu's Brainstorm, And now KDE's Brainstorm. I guess the whole "get ideas from your constituents" thing actually works.
But why do their names all have a *storm pattern?

*Actually, I think Lego beat them to it.

Re:*storm (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | about 5 years ago | (#27326265)

Well, 'brainstorm' has been around for a while as an English word.

Though, just wait: Microsoft will buck the trend, trying to be a trend-setting force in the market, and come out with some sort of derivative. Like, maybe, Brainorgy. Or Wetware. Or something like that.

Though, seriously: I can see popular OS and application vendors making something like this much more common. Not only does it allow users to be more involved in deciding which bugs are the most irritating (on the desktop), or which features should be upcoming, but it allows users to have a little investment in the software they're using, as well. "Don't like it? Use something else."

I've got $10 that Apple is the first company to have a native 'brainstorm' application for their 'desktop' OS - or, at least, a web portal that is transparent enough to appear so.

Re:*storm (1)

dov_0 (1438253) | about 5 years ago | (#27326643)

Though, just wait: Microsoft will buck the trend, trying to be a trend-setting force in the market, and come out with some sort of derivative. Like, maybe, Brainorgy. Or Wetware. Or something like that.

No they won't. They'll keep the 'storm' suffix but add something slightly different to the front so they can get a Trademark on it.

Re:*storm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27331035)

Perhaps chairstorm?

Said with no wish for partisanship (2, Insightful)

Dasher42 (514179) | about 5 years ago | (#27325939)

I wish KDE would adopt at least some of Gnome's Human Interface Guidelines. It'd help everyone if the Linux desktops came together in that respect, at least to ditch those silly Windows-centric "Cancel/Apply/OK" preference dialogues which don't offer any reason not to be done more simply.

Re:Said with no wish for partisanship (1)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | about 5 years ago | (#27325997)

Windows-centric

Also, SUSE should drop that Windows-centric Start menu, and Ubuntu needs to drop that Mac-centric panel at the top of the screen. /sarcasm

Not every UI decision originally implemented by MS* is a bad one.

*or did MS adopt that from something else?

"Cancel/Apply/OK" preference dialogues which don't offer any reason not to be done more simply.

Any suggestions on how it could be done simpler? And will your suggestion allow the same degree of control?
The only idea I have is to drop the 'Cancel' for being redundant with the 'Close' button in the corner.

Re:Said with no wish for partisanship (2, Insightful)

Dasher42 (514179) | about 5 years ago | (#27326149)

Any suggestions on how it could be done simpler? And will your suggestion allow the same degree of control?
The only idea I have is to drop the 'Cancel' for being redundant with the 'Close' button in the corner.

Yes. Gnome, XFCE, and OSX do it. You click an option, it takes effect. Don't like it? Just put it back. Optionally, the dialogue can have a revert or defaults button.

Gnome's gone a bit far in the direction of stripping down features, but overall, I like the uncluttered presentation. I'd love to have KDE's power behind that kind of thinking.

Re:Said with no wish for partisanship (0)

Carewolf (581105) | about 5 years ago | (#27326389)

But that gives you less control. You can not test a feature and easily revert, you have to reselect the option, and if the option is dangerous you are fucked. Doing something stupid is no less stupid just because the gnomes did it first.

Re:Said with no wish for partisanship (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27327045)

Please, first go read GNOME HIG before making ignorant comments.

Re:Said with no wish for partisanship (1)

jcupitt65 (68879) | about 5 years ago | (#27327065)

Instant-apply is only used for quick, non-destructive options. You can read the guidelines here:

http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/windows-utility.html.en

Do not make the user press an OK or Apply button to make the changes happen, unless either:

  • the change will take more than about one second to apply, in which case applying the change immediately could make the system feel slow or unresponsive, or
  • the changes in the window have to be applied simultaneously to prevent the system entering a potentially unstable state. For example, the hostname and proxy fields in a network properties window.

Re:Said with no wish for partisanship (1)

mgkimsal2 (200677) | about 5 years ago | (#27330825)

How do you "put it back"? I set up a custom theme in Gnome, then I 'try out' a new theme. It's just 'done'. I can't "go back" to my previous one.

Re:Said with no wish for partisanship (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | about 5 years ago | (#27327237)

Any suggestions on how it could be done simpler?

The Windows way:
Save?
Yes / no / cancel.

The Macintosh way:
Save?
Save / don't save / cancel.

Re:Said with no wish for partisanship (1)

EsbenMoseHansen (731150) | about 5 years ago | (#27327817)

Any suggestions on how it could be done simpler?

The Windows way: Save? Yes / no / cancel.

The Macintosh way: Save? Save / don't save / cancel.

The KDE way (just checked)
Save/Cancel

What is the difference between "don't save" and "cancel", anyway?

Though I actually agree that the "OK/Apply/cancel" for preference dialogs should be different, namely "Save&Close/Save/Cancel".

Re:Said with no wish for partisanship (2, Informative)

WindBourne (631190) | about 5 years ago | (#27328543)

What is the difference between "don't save" and "cancel", anyway?
You hit the exit button, and this pops up.
  1. Save means save and continue with exit.
  2. Dont save means do not save, but continue with exit.
  3. Cancel means do not save and STOP EXIT.

There are many places where there are multiple operations occurring at one time.

Please no (1)

Drasil (580067) | about 5 years ago | (#27327261)

I find Gnome's UI very difficult. I know this is personal preference but I'd hate for KDE to become more like Gnome, I'm only just getting used to KDE 4.2.

Better than Ubuntu's (1)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | about 5 years ago | (#27325943)

In principle, KDE's Brainstorm is more ideal for FOSS than Ubuntu's, because KDE is a higher-level project (more FOSS projects draw from KDE than from Ubuntu). An idea implemented by KDE will propagate to all distros that use it, while the only way for an idea at Ubuntu's Brainstorm to reach as far and wide is to send the changes upstream. Something I understand has been an issue with Debian and could be just as contentious with other projects.

Maybe it does already (2, Interesting)

Psychotria (953670) | about 5 years ago | (#27325949)

And, maybe it might not be popular mentioning Windows 7 on /., but I really like the feature in Windows 7 beta where you can drag a window to a screen border and it resizes to the screen height and 1/2 the screen width. I imagine that this would be easy to do as a plugin for KDE, but (so far) I haven't been able to find one.

I think it's great that there's now a place to 'request' features like this instead of on the KDE wiki or emailing the devs directly (hey, they're busy and don't always have time to reply, which I understand). On that note, I do my little bit by submitting src patches and (more often) editing the KDE wikis; I figure that each little bit helps.

Re:Maybe it does already (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27326585)

I like how in Windows there is this clip art thing that comes up when you try to get help in office and it tells you stories but it doesn't really help you find any answers. Kthxbi.

Re:Maybe it does already (2, Funny)

Ash-Fox (726320) | about 5 years ago | (#27327317)

I like how in Windows there is this clip art thing that comes up when you try to get help in office and it tells you stories but it doesn't really help you find any answers.

Solved [sourceforge.net] .

Re:Maybe it does already (4, Informative)

baileydau (1037622) | about 5 years ago | (#27326907)

And, maybe it might not be popular mentioning Windows 7 on /., but I really like the feature in Windows 7 beta where you can drag a window to a screen border and it resizes to the screen height and 1/2 the screen width. I imagine that this would be easy to do as a plugin for KDE, but (so far) I haven't been able to find one.

KDE does have a feature that is similar, but not the same.

If you right mouse click on the "maximise" button, the window maximises in the VERTICAL direction ONLY. Similarly, you can maximise to full width by clicking with the middle button.

Unfortunately, I don't know of anything to expand to 1/2 height or width.

Re:Maybe it does already (1)

hawk (1151) | about 5 years ago | (#27331211)

I just tried this. Useful, but you have them backwards . . .

hawk

OT: Microsoft Windows (1)

zenyu (248067) | about 5 years ago | (#27327745)

And, maybe it might not be popular mentioning Windows 7 on /., but I really like the feature in Windows 7 beta...

Heh, just try comparing Windows 7 unfavorably to KDE or Gnome or even previous versions of the software in a Windows 7 story and you'll get modded a troll like I did. :P

Anyway, the same feature you liked annoyed me yesterday, but that may just be the old fogey in me. KDE4 annoys me similarly when it shrinks all my windows to postage stamp size at half-alpha which I'm guessing is supposed to allow you to choose an app to go to next, but if you're eyes are only 20-20 with glasses all your apps look pretty much the same and contrast. Maybe these really are good things that just aren't for me. This is opposed to bugs like Windows 7 betas leaving chaff behind it from incomplete redraws to the point that you long for the 'ctrl-l' command of yore, or the KDE4 "alt-tab" handler putting the long list of windows _behind_ the fancy animation; so you can't just see at a glance that you need to press the key combo X times to get to the desired window, instead you need to pay attention to the animation and slowly go through the list one application at a time.

Re:Maybe it does already (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | about 5 years ago | (#27327775)

And, maybe it might not be popular mentioning Windows 7 on /., but I really like the feature in Windows 7 beta where you can drag a window to a screen border and it resizes to the screen height and 1/2 the screen width. I imagine that this would be easy to do as a plugin for KDE, but (so far) I haven't been able to find one.

Here is the feature request for that very feature on KDE's Bugzilla:
Resize windows based on drag location [kde.org]

Re:Maybe it does already (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about 5 years ago | (#27329963)

In my experience, all that windows witchery* one needs at Windows goes away when you get the options of keeping a window above or behind the others.

* Cascading them, displaying side by side, etc

Hmmm (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | about 5 years ago | (#27326019)

Ubuntu and KDE with their own idea centers. I have one. Ditch the idea centers and allow ideas to be submitted in the same way as bugs. Then allow bugs to be more freely accessed. Why make two systems when they do pretty much the same thing? Play off the strengths you've already built up. Clearly it wouldn't be hard to make this happen. This is my sole request for KDE/ubuntu/ff/anything with an open bug reporting system.

Re:Hmmm (2, Informative)

lbbros (900904) | about 5 years ago | (#27326335)

Bug reporting tools are quite inefficient for feature development (and that is why openSUSE has made FATE, for example). Plus you have to deal with duplicates, spam, flames... Our (I'm a KDE forum staff member) idea was to provide pre-screening, and also help users with voting, which reduces the amount of duplicate information and potentially "weeds out" bad ideas.

What's with all the hate? (2, Insightful)

haeger (85819) | about 5 years ago | (#27326043)

Every time there's a story about KDE a number of people complain, saying it's a failure, that the 4.x-series are dead and so on. Where does all this come from? KDE is one of the high profile open source applications along with gnome, apache, and others so it should be in our common interest to have it succeed.

Why the need for all the trash-talk? Why not focus on the positive? KDE does some things great, as does gnome and others. Constructive criticism is fine but "KDE4 sucks" is hardly constructive.

It's not like we need to fight amongst ourselves. There are plenty of other opponents out there that we could focus on. Now we're only weakening our position. I just don't get it.

Re:What's with all the hate? (2, Insightful)

cheros (223479) | about 5 years ago | (#27326261)

Hmm, I don't think it's "hate" as such, more profound disappointment. I can't speak for others, but KDE 3.5 was moving along nicely, was functional and had *heaps* of apps to make it a complete desktop. With Compiz Fusion added it was even damn flash, but the main thing is that it did the job and enough apps were available to create some flexibility.

Along comes 4 and whammo - I even have trouble finding a decent WiFi manager. All those 3.5 apps I was used to don't have a 4 replacement, and I don't really want to be a whining git asking the developers of every single app to upgrade their code (which is AFAIK not that easy either) - besides, I don't have the time.

So 4.0 was for me going from a functional 3.5 desktop to a black hole. I won't bitch about it, I occasionally check in and see if the situation has improved. So far, the answer is "not really", so I'll use Gnome of a lighter desktop. It also means that I can no longer wean people off Windows because KDE 4 just doesn't cut it yet as a replacement.

In summary, to me, going to KDE 4 was as much an upgrade to 3.5 as Vista was an upgrade to XP..

What I'd like is simply what 3.5 was offering, stable compiz fusion graphics added (flashiness aside, a cube is actually quite a good working desktop model from a functionality point of view) and a complete array of apps form printing, WiFi (well, OK, that still sucks in seven ways to Sunday on Linux IMHO).

Having said that, I'll probably buy a Mac instead. Functionality without the risk or hassle..

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

Psychotria (953670) | about 5 years ago | (#27326377)

Hi cheros. I understand your frustration; I loved KDE 3.5.x and used it daily as my primary desktop environment. Along came KDE 4.x and I was shocked. I couldn't work using it. It was complete, unusable, crap. This has been discussed ad infinitum, so I won't really add more. However, since 4.0 was released I've been keeping up with the progress and compile the sources once a week on Saturdays as an excuse to drink beer.

Although I still don't think it's up-to-scratch, KDE 4.x has improved a lot. Finally, two weeks ago, I stopped logging into a Gnome desktop (which I had to use to get work done) and am now logging into KDE, again, by default. It still has bugs. It's still slow (on my machine). But, I can get work done now. I do think KDE still has a way to go... but the progress has been great (IMO). For me the Gnome vs KDE preference is (obviously) subjective. Back in the KDE 1.x and 2.x days I avoided it (KDE) like the plague and used Gnome (a lot had to do with the Qt license rather than more practical reasons, I admit). Then KDE 3.x changed my mind.

After KDE 4.x I went back to Gnome and hated BOTH Gnome and KDE. It almost made me consider going back to Windows (well, not really, I am exaggerating to make a point). The point is that the KDE 4.x train wreck days made me consider using an OS other than Linux (I've been using linux since Yggdrasil in 1994). With the latest KDE builds I am once again confident that KDE is on the right track.

If you haven't tried the latest KDE builds, give one a go. You might just like it again.

Re:What's with all the hate? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27326841)

Having spent a lot of time just to get the latest 4.x version, 4.2 running, I'm still very, very disappointed. All that made KDE so good is gone. Keyboard shortcuts are more limited now and occasionally don't work at all, file management is much worse, the launch menu is primitive compared to what it was (and whilst Lancelot can replace it, it isn't as good as the 3.x version was), plenty of useful, small apps no longer work like they should and finally, it's still quite buggy. I do wonder what they were thinking when the great launch menu was changed like that - having the most frequently launched applications gathered automatically was a great feature but now you have to add favorites manually.

Furthermore, file management doesn't work well anymore - I was used to being able to move icons in windows but now they all align to a grid no matter what, which sort of defeats the purpose of a graphical file manager. And as a consequence of my preference to double-click to open folders and files in the file manager (selecting by one click is what I'm used to), quick access too requires double-clicking, which is ridiculous.

And then some plasmoid replacements for useful apps simply make you ask if they're joking with users. I got quite used to knotes and liked being able to put post-it notes on my desktop - and it was great when you could turn them into reminder alarms for kalarm or e-mail messages in kmail. Now you have the ridiculous widget - with knotes you added new ones by right-clicking on the icon in the system tray and choosing "new note". Now to add a note widget you must first chose add widget, pick the widget from a long list and finally you end up with a note on the desktop that you can write something in but once you close it, the contents are forever gone. With knotes it was only removed when you closed it but still saved and accessible through the icon in the system tray. It's still possible to use knotes but it doesn't work very well - notes disappear too when you click show desktop and before the very idea was that they were there, stuck to my desktop and not like regular windows. And occasionally it gets buggy and the notes show up as windows in the task bar too, which takes a lot of space in it.

In general, I do wonder why they had to fix something that wasn't broken. Is it really a good idea to make so much from scratch just so that anybody that has just written "hello world" can proceed to easily write a widget, which sits on your desktop and says "hello world, the weather today is..." The KDE developers have strange priorities. If it does turn out that in addition to the widgets that nobody except the author and his mother consider useful, a bunch of useful once start to replace the small, useful apps that made KDE so good, users will of course start to like KDE again but for now, it's as bad as Gnome. Eye-candy is a bonus but good usability should always be the most important issue.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

Psychotria (953670) | about 5 years ago | (#27327129)

I cannot argue with your well presented points. You are, of course, correct. KDE pre 4.x was, to me, a great environment to work in. Then came 4.x and, well, to put it bluntly: it was broken. In many respects it still is broken. Your points are valid, strong and hard to dispute. In short, you're correct. I guess the stance that I am taking is that the decision has been made, and the changes implemented (or, more truthfully, partially or attempted to be implemented).

Is it really a good idea to make so much from scratch just so that anybody that has just written "hello world" can proceed to easily write a widget, which sits on your desktop and says "hello world, the weather today is..." The KDE developers have strange priorities.

In many ways I agree with what you're saying. Making things simple for people to write and integrate with KDE int main (void) { puts ("Hello World\n"); return 0; } ("gui-fied" of course) seems like a pretty stupid goal. On the other hand there are a whole heap of people out there writing "widgets"/gadgets for osx or windows. Granted, I have not seen one "gadget" (yep, not even one) that I would stick on my desktop. But the thing is, the API is there. So, if my mum can download her favourite clock from Google and it works in KDE and it works, then isn't that one step closer to "the year of the linux desktop"? I don't know if this was one of KDE's goals, I don't converse with them *that* much. But it seems reasonable... albeit, at the end of the day, useless. It does seem sort of reasonable to support a whole bunch of applets not directly written for KDE though. I think that it would have been better to add the support to KDE 3.5.x though, so in that regard I agree with you completely. But that hasn't happened. I can't change the past, but I can influence the future. So, for the time being, I am supportive of KDE 4.x's development and progress... even if it's not quite "there" yet.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

Psychotria (953670) | about 5 years ago | (#27327211)

Take back my first reply to you Anonymous Coward. Your points are 100% correct. I took a defensive position and after pondering it for a bit I see your point(s). Despite the new goals that I inferred or guessed and that, in my original reply, I have a sinking feeling now. In light of your points my counter-points seem hollow.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | about 5 years ago | (#27327811)

Furthermore, file management doesn't work well anymore - I was used to being able to move icons in windows but now they all align to a grid no matter what, which sort of defeats the purpose of a graphical file manager.

Here is the feature request for that issue:
Option to not align icons to grid [kde.org]

Re:What's with all the hate? (3, Insightful)

baileydau (1037622) | about 5 years ago | (#27326745)

Hmm, I don't think it's "hate" as such, more profound disappointment. I can't speak for others, but KDE 3.5 was moving along nicely, was functional and had *heaps* of apps to make it a complete desktop. With Compiz Fusion added it was even damn flash, but the main thing is that it did the job and enough apps were available to create some flexibility.

Those KDE 3.5 applications you like still exist, they didn't go away. You can use them with KDE 4.x, 3.5, Gnome, or many other desktop environments.

Along comes 4 and whammo - I even have trouble finding a decent WiFi manager. All those 3.5 apps I was used to don't have a 4 replacement, and I don't really want to be a whining git asking the developers of every single app to upgrade their code (which is AFAIK not that easy either) - besides, I don't have the time.

So use the WiFi manager you like. Personally, I use KnetworkManager. I believe that is a KDE 3.x application.

So 4.0 was for me going from a functional 3.5 desktop to a black hole. I won't bitch about it, I occasionally check in and see if the situation has improved. So far, the answer is "not really", so I'll use Gnome of a lighter desktop.

Sorry, this is an attitude I don't understand. If you like KDE 3.5, but don't like KDE 4.x, why go to Gnome (or other desktop), just use KDE 3.5, it's still available. It seems like people are cutting their noses off to spite their faces (that is assuming are actually changing their desktop and not trolling)

It also means that I can no longer wean people off Windows because KDE 4 just doesn't cut it yet as a replacement.

So why not show them KDE 3.5 instead.

A quote from the KDE website:
"KDE 3.5 is the more mature version of KDE. For more conservative users, this is the recommended version of KDE."

In summary, to me, going to KDE 4 was as much an upgrade to 3.5 as Vista was an upgrade to XP..

What I'd like is simply what 3.5 was offering, stable compiz fusion graphics added (flashiness aside, a cube is actually quite a good working desktop model from a functionality point of view) and a complete array of apps form printing, WiFi (well, OK, that still sucks in seven ways to Sunday on Linux IMHO).

Having said that, I'll probably buy a Mac instead. Functionality without the risk or hassle..

So, why not stick with KDE 3.5 for the time being??? You aren't being forced to go to 4.x.

Personally, I now use KDE 4.2 on all of my machines (both home and work). I really like the "Cover Switch" alt-tab tool.

I tried KDE 4.0 and 4.1 and didn't like them. I stayed with KDE 3.5. I found KDE 4.1.3 OK and made the switch.

Re:What's with all the hate? (3, Informative)

ChienAndalu (1293930) | about 5 years ago | (#27327087)

Because 3.5 isn't available in many repositories anymore and bugs for 3.5 aren't being fixed because efforts concentrate on kde 4.

Re:What's with all the hate? (2, Informative)

baileydau (1037622) | about 5 years ago | (#27327373)

Because 3.5 isn't available in many repositories anymore and bugs for 3.5 aren't being fixed because efforts concentrate on kde 4.

Which of the major distros don't carry KDE 3.5 any more?? I use openSUSE and it is most certainly available.

Looking at http://www.kde.org/download/#v3.5 [kde.org] there appear to be binary packages for Fedora, Kubuntu, Mandriva, openSUSE

Whilst a lot of effort is going into KDE 4.x, the 3.5 line still seems to be worked on.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

EsbenMoseHansen (731150) | about 5 years ago | (#27328137)

Because 3.5 isn't available in many repositories anymore and bugs for 3.5 aren't being fixed because efforts concentrate on kde 4.

Which of the major distros don't carry KDE 3.5 any more?? I use openSUSE and it is most certainly available.

Looking at http://www.kde.org/download/#v3.5 [kde.org] there appear to be binary packages for Fedora, Kubuntu, Mandriva, openSUSE

Whilst a lot of effort is going into KDE 4.x, the 3.5 line still seems to be worked on.

Actually, they have a point. It has little to do with KDE, but with the Qt 3.x series, which has been discontinued and is basically unmaintained. Noone has stepped up to maintain it, and thus distributors are loath to carry packages that depends on qt 3.5. kdelibs4 (aka kde 3) are still maintained, but in bugfixing mode.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

PeterBrett (780946) | about 5 years ago | (#27327399)

Because 3.5 isn't available in many repositories anymore...

How exactly is that the KDE developers' fault?

Re:What's with all the hate? (2, Informative)

Ash-Fox (726320) | about 5 years ago | (#27327275)

Note, I am not the grand father poster.

Those KDE 3.5 applications you like still exist, they didn't go away. You can use them with KDE 4.x, 3.5, Gnome, or many other desktop environments.

I can't. I set the global hot key in any kde3 application running in KDE4.x and the hot key doesn't work, preventing me from using the applications.

So use the WiFi manager you like. Personally, I use KnetworkManager. I believe that is a KDE 3.x application.

Kubuntu actually, not KDE. Thus, not available on all distros.

A quote from the KDE website:
"KDE 3.5 is the more mature version of KDE. For more conservative users, this is the recommended version of KDE."

Didn't stop Kubuntu from adopting KDE4 as a default for all new releases without giving the option to use KDE3 on said releases.

So, why not stick with KDE 3.5 for the time being??? You aren't being forced to go to 4.x.

Considering I'm using the latest Kubuntu version to get updated applications, I am unfortunately - what sucks is that KDE4 isn't finished yet and they're pushing it as a full desktop system.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

FrozenFOXX (1048276) | about 5 years ago | (#27330203)

Kubuntu actually, not KDE. Thus, not available on all distros.

Didn't stop Kubuntu from adopting KDE4 as a default for all new releases without giving the option to use KDE3 on said releases.

Considering I'm using the latest Kubuntu version to get updated applications, I am unfortunately - what sucks is that KDE4 isn't finished yet and they're pushing it as a full desktop system.

I'm sensing a theme here, that perhaps you need to reexamine your distribution of choice.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | about 5 years ago | (#27330259)

I'm sensing a theme here, that perhaps you need to reexamine your distribution of choice.

Most distros are pissing me off at the moment. I still want the vast repositories that Ubuntu provides without the non-sense of portage package hell. I don't have much choice in the issue, unfortunately.

Re:What's with all the hate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27329513)

If you like KDE 3.5, but don't like KDE 4.x, why go to Gnome

Because it's not about the code or the functionality in the immediate short term. It's the developers and the future of the project. They refuse to accept that they fucked up big time, they are engaging in endless rewrites, and they are blaming the users for expecting too much. Until those attitudes change, I do not expect another acceptable KDE release from them. Essentially, KDE 3.5 is the end of the line. I could stick with a dead desktop environment, or I could switch to one that is actually making some progress. I chose to switch. This is from somebody who has used every KDE beta since the 1.0 betas back in the 90s, FWIW.

Re:What's with all the hate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27327199)

Porting all those apps takes time. Personally, I still miss proper bluetooth support and K3b, and Amarok is half-baked and buggy. But the basic framework of KDE 4.2.1 is pretty damn good, and the potential for becoming great is obvious. So why the whining? Are people still whining because OS X 10.0 is terrible, slow, memory hungry, has crap app compatibility, in general is a POS? No, they don't, even though OS X only became decent with 10.2 and good with 10.3. For some reason, KDE, with its open development process, is held at a higher standard than Apple. It's ridiculous.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

rsidd (6328) | about 5 years ago | (#27327297)

When did you last use KDE4? I've been running KDE 4.2 since a little before its release, and all the applications I need work including a pretty good network-manager plasmoid; and I find kwin4 *way* superior to compiz-fusion. The effects are well thought out and actually useful. (And yes, it has a cube, but that's just eyecandy.) Before January I was running gnome+compiz-fusion, for pretty much the reasons you say.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

WindBourne (631190) | about 5 years ago | (#27329059)

Apple, like windows, ALL have their issues when doing major changes. 3 to 4 was a major jump, along the lines 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 (go figure; MAJOR VERSION CHANGE). 4 IS having some issues. Not all the apps have been (or even will be) ported. BUT things WILL settle down and more importantly, progress will continue. I can understand your not moving ppl to 4 yet. I am currently typing this on kubuntu jaunty, and see issues with KDE as well as the distro (though it IS an alpha). I hate the way certain things are being done. BUT it will still settle down in another release.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

hesaigo999ca (786966) | about 5 years ago | (#27329129)

Is there a way of packing 3.5 kde (while removing the 4.0) with the latest version of ~distro~ linux.
I am not that strong in redoing the overall flavor of a distro, leaving it "as is" when I install linux...so my question stems from wanting to know how to if it can be done at all, thinking of latest ubuntu or red hat etc.

Support for multiple XScreens gone (1)

kmahan (80459) | about 5 years ago | (#27329929)

My biggest complaint with KDE4.x is the loss of support for multiple X screens. My configuration is 3 monitiors on 2 NVidia cards. 2 of the monitors are configured as XScreen 0 with TwinView, and the other is on the second card configured as XScreen 1. KDE 3.5 handled this perfectly and I had the desktop spread across all 3 monitors. KDE 4.X doesn't have support for multiple XScreens (and last time I looked nobody was working on it).

Re:What's with all the hate? (2, Interesting)

Lord Lode (1290856) | about 5 years ago | (#27326301)

Because it really is something to hate. That's why. I worked 2 months with KDE 4.1 and then had to install KDE 3.5 again simply because it allows me to work much better and faster. I'm normally not the guy who goes around changing his linux all the time, but the fact that I actually took the time to go back to 3.5 and that I was incredibly happy when it booted back up and I was immediatly more productive, does that prove that something is wrong with KDE 4.X, at least for some people? Yes, I hate it.

Re:What's with all the hate? (4, Insightful)

penguinchris (1020961) | about 5 years ago | (#27326525)

Agreed - I had my doubts about KDE 4 and thought it was terrible when I tried the 4.0 and 4.1 releases. However, now I've been using 4.2 since it came out, and when I recently set up another computer I tried to go back to 3.5 (it's a netbook and I figured 3.5 would be faster) and I couldn't. I got used to the improvements in 4.x and don't want to go back.

Which is not to say there aren't still features in 3.5 not in 4.x yet that I dearly miss. KDE's not quite there yet and I can see why many still wouldn't want to switch. But despite their gaff with 4.0 - which I think really was a bad move - 4.x is coming along nicely and in time most people will realize this and start using it.

My point is that the "KDE 4 sucks" talk is the natural result of people resisting change, combined with some pretty big mistakes the KDE devs made (the 4.0 release and the many still-missing features from 3.5, for example.) It'll die out within the next couple of major KDE 4 releases, I suspect.

Re:What's with all the hate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27326905)

Agreed - I had my doubts about KDE 4 and thought it was terrible when I tried the 4.0 and 4.1 releases. However, now I've been using 4.2 since it came out, and when I recently set up another computer I tried to go back to 3.5 (it's a netbook and I figured 3.5 would be faster) and I couldn't. I got used to the improvements in 4.x and don't want to go back.

A sincere question: What are those improvements? I'm using 4.2 but haven't noticed any improvements - only more eye-candy and I don't appreciate any eye-candy one bit.

Re:What's with all the hate? (2, Interesting)

MrHanky (141717) | about 5 years ago | (#27327265)

KMail is a lot better. The desktop has more funtionality, if you like plasmoids (SuperKaramba doesn't compare).

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

PeterBrett (780946) | about 5 years ago | (#27327429)

A sincere question: What are those improvements? I'm using 4.2 but haven't noticed any improvements - only more eye-candy and I don't appreciate any eye-candy one bit.

They did a crapload of work on the system tray and notifications -- IMHO the new system tray is a massive improvement even on the 3.5 one.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

WindBourne (631190) | about 5 years ago | (#27329267)

I hated spell-check and find in kde 3. Love it now. I know that both were borrowed from firefox, but does not matter.
The root window now allows for more interesting items.
While I coded on kde 1, 2 and a little on 3, I have not done so on 4. From what I have seen it appears that the api has undergone some sane changes. Now that I am through with a 4 y divorce, I will most likely get back to doing some coding.

Re:What's with all the hate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27327779)

Why are you blaming the KDE developers for what your distributor are shipping? Are distributors nowadays not supposed to test what they are shipping? Did the KDE developers erase 3.5.x from the internet? From my point of view, shipping 4.0 was a huge mistake - by the distributors. The KDE people had to declare something stable so it could get things bootstrapped for "third party" developers, and the base libraries _were_ stable, if not feature complete compared to 3.5.x, but that's beside the point. What wasn't stable, was plasma, which hits endusers but have no real meaning in the context of a "dot oh". Queue massive whining. So, how was your problems with 4.0 the developers fault? And don't give me any shit about release notes etc, or at least not until you've properly explained why that absolves your distributor from being guilty of not doing their job.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

david@ecsd.com (45841) | about 5 years ago | (#27330743)

Agreed. I've been running 4.2 on Kubuntu Intrepid in the fishbowl of VirtualBox (needed to do video editing with Kdenlive) and it's almost there. There are some things they've done with the 4.0 series that have me scratching my head--the panel clock f'rinstance: why did they extract all the functionality into four or five differnet clocks when I could choose a setting from a drop down list on the clock applet? Silly things like that. I, too, will wait for the next major release.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

WindBourne (631190) | about 5 years ago | (#27328997)

Look. This happens ALL the time, with all projects. You have the window fan bois combined with the GNOME noobies, etc, all of which are far more interested in not having competition. Ignore them. It happens to ALL platforms. In addition, some of what can be taken for trolls are actually not, but grips coming from ppl who want to operate outside of the process. The simple fact is, that some of these are legitimate. Not a problem. Some will take these ideas and run them back to the group.

desktops that wedge get thrown in the hedge (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27329347)

I really tried to use KDE4 but it
just doesn't work well on my machine
for whatever reason.

I got angry when I realized that the beta KDE 4.0
was bundled as the default with, I think fc9 (there are so many fedora distros . . . ). That really
was a crappy thing for fedora to do.
Or was it a mistake to release KDE4.0 too early?
I remember reading that KDE 4 was a total rewrite of KDE 3.5 for many of
its pieces (the kicker, for example, was replaced).
I just can't use a desktop that locks up
in unexplainable ways.

So I switched to gnome and didn't look back.
And gnome has come along and doesn't have all this bouncey in your face popup and notification stuff going on.

Anything KDE will still run. But the desktop,
it just isn't ready for real world use (sorry KDE, but this is the truth). I can still use kdevelop in gnome.

With KDE 4.0 there were a few modes that made my system lock up solid. And when I have to ssh over and kill the desktop more than once, well I don't like that. So I figured out what the settings were that were wedging my system and figured, if they can't get that right, then what else isn't right? KDE 4.0 was new code I am guessing. And they didn't take forward the things from the past that worked. The feature list of KDE 3.5 was not used to make the feature list of KDE4 is what I figure.

I gave KDE 4 a chance again, the other day. Still was too bouncey and poppy and having unexpected wedges on common clients.

I'm used to gnome now. It doesn't bubble on the screen, but it doesn't wedge either.

Re:What's with all the hate? (1)

FrozenFOXX (1048276) | about 5 years ago | (#27330121)

I'd like to know this myself. I've been using KDE 4 since its initial .0 release and think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Do I bash on other people's desktops because I don't like them? No, never, I recognize that it's "not my thing" and move on. It's like some of the Gnome zealots that keep trying to beat into me that all non-Gnome desktops are trash, it's just silly.

This is FOSS, land of choice. If you don't like KDE 4 to my knowledge KDE 3.5.x still works nicely, there's wonderful developments in Gnome, and a myriad of other popular desktop environments (I'm partial to GNU Step and Fluxbox myself when I'm away from KDE).

Seriously, when did choice and preference become a Bad Thing in FOSS desktops?

They're too stubborn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27326161)

These guys used to rock, when they were working in KDE 3.5. Now they just copied all the annoyances of Windows Vista into KDE (such as an annoying auto horizontal tree in the file manager). They totally broke Kate's search function. It's one big HELL to use that search function that has independent settings in every text file you have open at the same time. They left us with the most annoying file manager ever (dolphin, the file manager that hardly has a tree) and a broken konqueror (also with broken tree), instead of the good konqueror of KDE 3.5. They removed the handy compress and decompress options in the file managers and instead gave astupid Ark thing that I have never seen working and other people also haven't. I need "one mouseclick unzipping to this folder", anything else makes using the terminal faster than doing it in filemanager. In KDE 4.2, they STILL didn't fix ANYTHING about graphics glitches in the taskbar. It's STILL not possible to have multiple horizontal taskbars at the bottom of the screen. When KDE 4.2 was out, I tested it on a friends pc and EVERY thing that I found broken about 4.1 was still broken in 4.2, and I didn't see any other useful improvement. The only good thing in KDE 4 is the graphics of the window manager, but its frustration of it's annoyingness to use forces me to stay with KDE 3.5. I miss those graphics in KDE 3.5 though, but I can properly manage files and work with Kate which makes more than up for it. They can't even, or don't WANT even, to fix the above problems. So I don't expect them to listen to my ideas on that forum either. I mean, they have their bugtracker with popularity voter, what's the difference with this idea forum? I suppose they'll just keep doing the same as now: only do ideas they find "fun" to program, like multimedia things and such, while totally neglecting programmers and such who used to like KDE as desktop.

Cashew - PLEASE provide a way to get rid of it. (1)

LiSrt (742904) | about 5 years ago | (#27326449)

For those that don't know what I'm talking about, it's the yellow thing in the top right of the desktop, used for some sort of menu button.

Anyway, there is no obvious way to get rid of it, not even a config file that can be edited - the only option being to download a third party add-on.

Seriously, is it so hard from a programming perspective to add a "Hide" option?

It's the only thing that annoys me about KDE (apart from the system tray icon background issue, which I think is being worked on).

Re:Cashew - PLEASE provide a way to get rid of it. (3, Informative)

lbbros (900904) | about 5 years ago | (#27326625)

The Plasma developers have already spoken about it. And you *can* get rid of it by using a custom desktop containment. openSUSE does that, for example, although personally I don't mind the cashew (which is also way smaller in trunk, BTW).

Re:Cashew - PLEASE provide a way to get rid of it. (1)

Hatta (162192) | about 5 years ago | (#27329673)

The Plasma developers have already spoken about it.

What did they say?

And you *can* get rid of it by using a custom desktop containment.

How do I do that?

This informative post is not very informative.

Re:Cashew - PLEASE provide a way to get rid of it. (1)

QCompson (675963) | about 5 years ago | (#27330737)

What did they say?

That they refuse to provide an option to remove it, and that others are welcome to.

How do I do that?

There's an applet or plasmoid or whatever that you can download (from kde-look.org I believe) that allows you to hide the cashew. Not a very elegant solution.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you access the cashew config by right clicking the desktop? I'm not sure why it is needed, and seems to piss a lot of people off.

MySQL for a desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27326537)

Somewhere between KDE 4.1 and KDE 4.2, the KDE developers decided that MySQL was required for a desktop. Not mysql-libs, but a full-on MySQL server. The offending application requiring this dependancy is Akonadi, which is part of KDE's PIM. And what are they using MySQL for? As a cache to pass data between desktop applications.

Re:MySQL for a desktop (1)

PeterBrett (780946) | about 5 years ago | (#27327371)

Somewhere between KDE 4.1 and KDE 4.2, the KDE developers decided that MySQL was required for a desktop. Not mysql-libs, but a full-on MySQL server. The offending application requiring this dependancy is Akonadi, which is part of KDE's PIM. And what are they using MySQL for? As a cache to pass data between desktop applications.

Wrong, sorry. It uses MySQL-Embedded, not a "full-on MySQL server". I believe there is an option to use a fully-featured MySQL daemon in its own process, but it's off by default. Please make a habit of actually checking the facts before you go off on a rant about something.

Re:MySQL for a desktop (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about 5 years ago | (#27330185)

Well, and why shouldn't an DBMS be a requirement for a desktop? Really, why do you think it is a bad idea?

At least, with a DBMS there will be less need for complex text files, and less problems like the one with EXT4. And, no it doesn't use a lot more recources than the no-db version, a DBMS is a quite low profile app compared to current GUIs. It may even use less, since all the data management is kept at a single place.

The true problem is X (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27326641)

X11 protocol was writen long ago for effective (ashynchronous communication) between terminal consoles and servers. Note that at the time, whole mindset of personal computers was different. Companies had huge powerful mainframes and just connected to them via their simple consoles.
X11 worked great in that aspect... was perfect asynchronous protocol that allowed for reasonably fast GUI.
But then desktop market exploded and everyone had powerful computer on their desk. And X11 just isn't designed to work well in this situation. The client-server architecture of X is just overhead in most cases. (Tell me, how many times did you attach to remote Xserver? - and with fast internet lines this could be done via VNC easily) The next thing is X11 protocol itself, the asynchronous design makes programming for X a terrible experience and just creates more problems than it solves (and it solves absolutelly nothing when it xserver and xclient are on same computer).

All in all... the X window system simply sucks for modern desktop. The whole unix (and especially linux) community should start working on new small and fast GUI framework that is designed to work well on desktops.
And no, there is no possible way to fix X11. The only way is to do it from scratch... or pickup some projects that didn't take from the ground, because lack of support.

http://www.std.org/~msm/common/WhyX.pdf [std.org]

Re:The true problem is X (4, Informative)

Ash-Fox (726320) | about 5 years ago | (#27327167)

X11 protocol was writen long ago for effective (ashynchronous communication) between terminal consoles and servers. Note that at the time, whole mindset of personal computers was different. Companies had huge powerful mainframes and just connected to them via their simple consoles.

Of course, these days we have billions times more powerful 'dumb terminals' and billions more powerful servers.

But then desktop market exploded and everyone had powerful computer on their desk. And X11 just isn't designed to work well in this situation.

Here is my personal experience -- My Windows games, with all the settings maxed out, perform better (can be even 20fps difference) running under Wine/Crossover+x.org+Linux than natively under Windows. The only issue graphically is fonts, and that's caused by patent issues.

In my personal opinion, I think x11 is doing far better than Windows and OS X (considering that games tend to perform worse with crossover games mac than they do with crossover games linux) is.

The implementation of x.org does have it's issues, but these aren't issues in the x11 specification, GEM should be fixing these issues. I have written a bit on the subject [livejournal.com] .

The client-server architecture of X is just overhead in most cases.

Overhead that seems to be beating Windows on the same hardware. I'm not convinced it's a issue.

(Tell me, how many times did you attach to remote Xserver? - and with fast internet lines this could be done via VNC easily)

Once or twice, but I have ran plenty of applications remotely on my local xserver - I do it all the time. VNC doesn't give me application specific windows, or allow applications to communicate with the rest of my desktop applications, or use the theming of my desktop, or work well on very low latency connections (I use compressed ssh tunnels - doesn't work well with VNC), or allow desktop composition to work, or do 3d acceleration... I can go on, but I see no point.

The next thing is X11 protocol itself, the asynchronous design makes programming for X a terrible experience and just creates more problems than it solves (and it solves absolutelly nothing when it xserver and xclient are on same computer).

Perhaps you should give first theoretical examples? And then give practical applications of real world instances where this happens. While, I am aware of some theoretical disadvantages, they're not really a issue practically speaking.

http://www.std.org/~msm/common/WhyX.pdf

There is a lot of random rubbish you find in that documentation like "Unreadable window attributes", whereby it's been a non-issue for a while now because the freedesktop specifications provided a suitable workaround for this ages ago on how WMs etc. should communicate with each other and applications.

Re:The true problem is X (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27327913)

The patents on truetype font hinting expire this October in the USA so that should help.

http://freetype.sourceforge.net/patents.html

Re:The true problem is X (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27329295)

games on X (and all GL) render directly to device... that's why you can't really connect to remote Xserver and play geme 'there'. And X performance is not problematic (as far as FPS goes) in this aspect.
X is slow rendering widgets, handling events (window moves, resizes, ...), etc...

Re:The true problem is X (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | about 5 years ago | (#27329371)

X is slow rendering widgets, handling events (window moves, resizes, ...), etc...

People keep telling me, but I don't experience it -- I run x.org on older and newer hardware. With the introduction of compositing extensions into x.org that bypass this whole theoretical issue - I really don't see this as a problem, honestly.

Re:The true problem is X (1)

Coryoth (254751) | about 5 years ago | (#27327883)

The client-server architecture of X is just overhead in most cases.

You do know that when you run both client and server locally it works over shared memory for practically no overhead right? You know that in benchmarks X11 demonstrates that it performs very well indeed (often better than Windows or Mac) at raw drawing speed (and raw drawing is all X11 really does). If you're worried about slowness then point the finger at GTK+ or Qt or Cairo or whatever other higher layer seems to be slow for you. It probably isn't X11.

Tell me, how many times did you attach to remote Xserver?

Every god damn day! It's great functionality that works well, and is incredibly useful if you actually get around to trying to use it. Of course it helps to actually work in a networked environment, but hey, don't most workplaces have huge internal networks these days?

and with fast internet lines this could be done via VNC easily

Not working on a per application basis and having those remote applications blend seamlessly into your local desktop to be managed (along with all the other windows) by your local window manager. It's just not comparable.

Re:The true problem is X (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27329841)

This information is false.
XServer and XClient communicate via unix domain sockets locally and with MIT-SHM extension they can communicate via shared memory - BUT only for image data!

Ninnle Linux already has KDE tweaked (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27326753)

It would be easier if Kindle's UI tweaks were adopted back into the 4.x series.

Re:Ninnle Linux already has KDE tweaked (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | about 5 years ago | (#27328597)

It would be easier if Kindle's UI tweaks were adopted back into the 4.x series.

Please elaborate, I'll file the ideas.

Here's an idea: FEATURE COMPLETE?!?! (1)

otis wildflower (4889) | about 5 years ago | (#27328613)

Hey KDE guys,
          Howsabout getting KDE4 feature-complete with KDE3 first? Then again, it doesn't really matter much to me anymore, I've already abandoned KDE4 for XFCE at work and GNOME/Ubuntu on my toy Aspire One at home..

          Still, I'll miss having the konqi run command applet in kpanel, whipping off "gg:" and "man:/" commands there was super l33t and efficient.. Frankly, I only needed a few icons, the run command applet, the lock/logout applet, the running apps, and the status thing at the end to get everything I needed to do done.

Re:Here's an idea: FEATURE COMPLETE?!?! (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about 5 years ago | (#27330223)

And what features are missing fot it be feature-complete? See? That's what they want to know.

Get rid of Modal dialogs! (1)

jlebrech (810586) | about 5 years ago | (#27329281)

I would like it to get rid of the modal dialog boxes, especially the one for knoqueror which makes it a pain to use for web browsing.

Maybe the could implement a modal dialog stack which would stack them up unobtrusively on the side some where, but not so that they can steal focus.

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  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
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