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After Sweden's New Law, a Major Drop In Internet Traffic

timothy posted about 5 years ago | from the back-to-corked-bottles dept.

The Internet 337

iamnot writes "The new IPRED law came into effect in a big way in Sweden on April 1st. A news report has come out showing that internet traffic dropped by 30% from March 31st to April 1st. A lawyer from the Swedish anti-piracy agency was quoted as saying that the drop in traffic 'sends a very strong signal that the legislation works.' Is the new law, which allows for copyright holders to request the identification of people sharing files, truly curing people of their evil ways? Or perhaps it is just taking some time for Swedish downloaders to figure out the new IPREDator VPN system from The Pirate Bay."

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337 comments

Nothing will change. (5, Interesting)

palegray.net (1195047) | about 5 years ago | (#27441595)

People route around legislative roadblocks faster than legislators can build new ones. It's kinda what the Internet is all about.

Re:Nothing will change. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27441709)

Would be interesting to see the Swedish usage statistics for OneSwarm [washington.edu] before and after IPRED.

Re:Nothing will change. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442009)

Before: 3
After: 5

Re:Nothing will change. (4, Funny)

Z00L00K (682162) | about 5 years ago | (#27441835)

I also suspect that it will be temporary and that the methods will change over time.

Let's see what it is in a month from now. However - it's spring time so you may get lower traffic if the weather is good and people starts to spend time outdoors. Some hackers may even have a life!

Re:Nothing will change. (4, Insightful)

Imsdal (930595) | about 5 years ago | (#27442055)

Ehh, no? I can't imagine the weather having much impact on Bittorrent traffic. It's not like you sit and watch the downloads after you have started them, do you? You start the download, then do something else (on or off the computer). There may be a summer reduction in Internet traffic due to students leaving campus, but I really doubt that has anything to do with the weather.

Re:Nothing will change. (1)

Razalhague (1497249) | about 5 years ago | (#27442177)

I'd say the majority of people who go outside when the weather is nice also shut down their computers when they're not sitting in front of it.

Re:Nothing will change. (2, Informative)

the_one(2) (1117139) | about 5 years ago | (#27442291)

As we saw when the government passed a law making it illegal to download MP3's there was a significant drop in Internet traffic as well. That didn't like very long either =) People are bit afraid of being caught at first but they soon realize that the chance is next to nothing.

Re:Nothing will change. (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442021)

Even if they can't route around it (or until they do), the summary may be right that this is a sign the legislation is working.

If I went round to every persons house, put a gun to their head, and told them I would shoot them if they kept sharing files, I think you would also see a dip in the stats like this.

Just because it works, it doesn't mean that its reasonable, proportional or fair. Luckily, like the gun example, the authorities/record labels will need to follow through with their threats. As soon as people realise that people aren't being shot for sharing, they'll start again. And if people are shot for sharing, there'll be protests on the streets. Not what any government wants.

April 1st (5, Insightful)

zombietangelo (1394031) | about 5 years ago | (#27441597)

IMO April Fools Day is the worst day of the internet (especially for news). I, for one, was hardly on at all.

Re:April 1st (4, Insightful)

Vectronic (1221470) | about 5 years ago | (#27441797)

Exactly... a 24 hour period?

Slashdot has days where there are only about 70-100 comments on articles, does that mean people are against reading, or people don't like websites that start with 'S'?

Let me know at the end of April, if the amount is significantly lower than March.

I know quite a few people that were scared about Conficker that stayed offline too.

Re:April 1st (1)

malkir (1031750) | about 5 years ago | (#27441933)

I think you nailed it, with the media being all over the 'worm attack' making it sound like nukes were going off, I'm sure many un-savvy web users just stayed offline.

I'd like to see... (5, Insightful)

Tokerat (150341) | about 5 years ago | (#27441615)

...statistics on how much traffic ramped UP in the days and weeks before April 1st. I imagine that some where afraid of the new laws, and they where getting in some last-minute downloads before they had to cut the line and look for new methods to hide their traffic.

Re:I'd like to see... (5, Informative)

lordsilence (682367) | about 5 years ago | (#27441677)

Here, go ahead:

http://stats.autonomica.se/mrtg/sums_max/all_month_sum.png [autonomica.se]

This is the monthly summarized statistics for netnod. Does indeed look like a big drop at April 1st and pretty stable usage before.

Re:I'd like to see... (5, Informative)

rolfc (842110) | about 5 years ago | (#27441781)

Nope
Look at

http://stats.autonomica.se/mrtg/sums_max/all_year_sum.png [autonomica.se]

All the talk about filesharing must have spread the word. They could just as well try to sell air. ;)

Re:I'd like to see... (2, Insightful)

rsmith-mac (639075) | about 5 years ago | (#27441893)

That's a pretty regular usage if we're looking at a University (or something that feeds a Uni), which I suspect we are. You get growth starting around August when the kids arrive and start figuring out how to maximize their resources, a leveling off once they do maximize resources, a dip during the holidays, and finally followed by a return to previous stable levels. This is all against a slight slope in the curve, because bandwidth consumption is always rising on average.

There's nothing in the yearly graph that outright disagrees with TFA.

Re:I'd like to see... (4, Informative)

skrolle2 (844387) | about 5 years ago | (#27442085)

You're looking at the bandwidth graph of all of Sweden, as measured by http://www.netnod.se/ [netnod.se], not a single university.

Also, if you look at the two-year graph, http://stats.autonomica.se/mrtg/sums/all_twoyear_sum.png [autonomica.se], you can see that the drop now down to 90Gbps only means that we're back at the levels of October last year.

Yeah, really effective, what a huge blow to filesharing in Sweden, how will it ever recover? Oh, let's wait half a year and it will definitely be back at the levels of late March again.

Like the polls (3, Interesting)

emj (15659) | about 5 years ago | (#27442175)

25% said they would stop file sharing if IPRED became reality, and it seems they did.. :-) There's a huge build out of broadband in Stockholm and Sweden right now, lots of people are getting 100mbps. So things will change, especially with tech like One swarm that will multiply the bandwidth.

Re:Like the polls (1)

nospam007 (722110) | about 5 years ago | (#27442289)

There's a huge build out of broadband in Stockholm and Sweden right now, lots of people are getting 100mbps.

So they can rent a 10$ a month server in Tonga, install utorrent on it and stream the downloaded stuff via VPN with 100mbps?

Nice!

Re:Like the polls (2, Interesting)

cybe (92183) | about 5 years ago | (#27442359)

So they can rent a 10$ a month server in Tonga, install utorrent on it and stream the downloaded stuff via VPN with 100mbps?

Or just do as many I know, buy an account at a commercial Usenet host with SSL tunneling support and no logging, and just leech on..

Also, it is no surprise the traffic volume drops if people just grab what they need from usenet instead of keep seeding torrents for foreign peers to maintain quotas on regtrackers.

Re:I'd like to see... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27441891)

Take a look at the two year graph:

http://stats.autonomica.se/mrtg/sums/all_twoyear_sum.png

It seems that in 07 & 08 there were also drops in usage throughout spring & summer.

Re:I'd like to see... (2, Insightful)

Lord Bitman (95493) | about 5 years ago | (#27442161)

what country could possibly look at a drop in overall internet usage as a good thing?

Re:I'd like to see... (1)

Eivind (15695) | about 5 years ago | (#27442183)

It looks stable only short-term. If you look at the graph for the last 3 years, then you see that the 30% drop is equivalent to putting bandwith-usage back where it was 9 months ago.

Nobody downloaded any illegal movies or music 9 months ago, right ?

Re:I'd like to see... (1)

SuperMo0 (730560) | about 5 years ago | (#27441843)

But if you're looking for the weeks before, shouldn't we also be waiting for the weeks *after*? It's like when inspection stickers on cars roll over to the next month. You're bound to see people avoid driving their illegal cars to work until the weekend, when they can get it fixed. You'll see a drop in traffic for a day or two but that doesn't mean the change in speed limit affected anything. That weak analogy reminded me that my sticker just rolled over a couple days ago...

They pull a knife, we pull a gun (5, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | about 5 years ago | (#27441641)

Don't you see that the constant raising of stakes is simply going to end up fucking over everyone's civil rights in the end?

Cry all you want about the legitimacy of file sharing and how old media needs to adapt to the current technology, it's still legally questionable to "share" copyright works.

So now they make a law to get the names of users. You decide to start using VPN. They decide to outlaw VPN to certain IPs. You decide to use roaming servers. They decide to make filesharing software illegal.

Then everyone loses. Not just you guys who want to get your music and movies for free.

Re:They pull a knife, we pull a gun (5, Funny)

tick-tock-atona (1145909) | about 5 years ago | (#27441793)

LISTER: You want to talk? Let's talk.
SIMULANT: You have no weapon?
LISTER: No. You have no weapon?
SIMULANT: No.

They walk towards each other.

SIMULANT: Guess what? (Pulls out hunting knife.) I lied.
LISTER: Guess what? (Allows pole to slide from the arm of his jacket.) So did I.
SIMULANT: But I lied twice. (Pulls out a handgun.)
LISTER: Smeg, I didn't think of that.

Re:They pull a knife, we pull a gun (1, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 5 years ago | (#27441833)

Then everyone loses. Not just you guys who want to get your music and movies for free.

That's the point. Once the MAFIAA's tactics become so burdensome that they kill the net for everybody then they will have made an enemy of everybody and that is an unsustainable situation. My bet is on everybody, from the sound of it, your bet is on the MAFIAA.

Re:They pull a knife, we pull a gun (4, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | about 5 years ago | (#27441895)

Just as my bet is on the handful of guys inside the G20 meeting and not on the thousands of idiots getting beat down outside, my bet is on the handful of guys getting laws passed and not the millions of idiots trying to avoid getting caught breaking the law.

Re:They pull a knife, we pull a gun (3, Insightful)

Andtalath (1074376) | about 5 years ago | (#27441931)

You see, what you're doing here is blaming the victim.
Yes, the victim.

Very few file-sharers have the capacity to buy the stuff they download, they are just tagging along in what is a part of their culture, a culture which the media conglomerate has built very effectively.

So, the choice is to be left out of the loop on everyday culture or pirate.

Also, do you honestly believe that most of the restraints from the government wouldn't happen regardless?
Governments want control, they will seize any opportunity to get greater control.

Re:They pull a knife, we pull a gun (2, Insightful)

dedioste (797427) | about 5 years ago | (#27442317)

Very few file-sharers have the capacity to buy the stuff they download, they are just tagging along in what is a part of their culture, a culture which the media conglomerate has built very effectively.

This could be true for poor countries, but i completely doubt that a twentysomething who spends 200 $ for a pair of shoes or goes to a club where entry and drink is 30 $ cannot shell out 10 $ twice a month for a DVD or a record (consider also that you can have old cd/dvd for a couple of bucks through ebay/online sellers).

Re:They pull a knife, we pull a gun (5, Insightful)

Thanshin (1188877) | about 5 years ago | (#27441943)

Then everyone loses. Not just you guys who want to get your music and movies for free.

Funny how I see the exact same pattern but I interpret it as a good thing.

An arms race between government and the people that has the people as the ultimate winner? It's better than good.

The method of slowly pushing the commoners down and the rulers up doesn't stop with a reasonable and gradual struggle to make the situation more balanced. It stops when the commoners revolt, the powerful raise their armies against them and discover that those armies are too heavily outnumbered.

Re:They pull a knife, we pull a gun (1)

Bert64 (520050) | about 5 years ago | (#27441993)

Actually, if you make filesharing software illegal it is only the legitimate users of it that lose out...
Downloading movies/warez/etc is already illegal, so those who do it are unlikely to be concerned about possessing another piece of illegal software to do it.

Re:They pull a knife, we pull a gun (5, Informative)

Hannes Eriksson (39021) | about 5 years ago | (#27442031)

IANAL, but there is a passage in the swedish constitution regarding right of speech (yttrandefrihetsgrundlagen, SFS 1991:1469, which I re-read for this reason, just a few days ago) that prohibits laws being passed to outlaw equipment used for sending or receiving radio programmes or any form of recording of text, images and/or sound. It leaves a small hole for laws that require a license send things wirelessly, but is quite strict on things passing through wires.

Banning VPNs or even torrents is as far as I can tell, against the swedish constitution.

You can read it yourself here: http://www.riksdagen.se/templates/R_Page____6316.aspx

Chapter 1, article 3 prevents banning ownership and usage, on grounds of content, of tools needed for reception and parsing a message intended for the general public.
Chapter 3, article 10 would relate to ISP (common carrier) content filtering.

Funny thing the swedish parliament has passed so many stupid laws in recent years, when the constitution contains so many Good articles!

Re:They pull a knife, we pull a gun (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442131)

If some of those "legislators" had half a brain cell, or half a heart between them they would do the opposite and pass a law making it *legal* to share media between people for no charge. They would strengthen laws criminalising those who are genuine pirates selling copies for money. But, as the previous poster points out those laws already exist ! Fight these idiots who are the real "pirates". They are using this issue to attack freedom and society.

Re:They pull a knife, we pull a gun (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442257)

It's like the WOT laws. Destroying the freedoms that soldiers give their life's to protect. Have we all lost our minds ? The legislators pass laws contradicting freedom laws in their own constitutions. Fileshares take it up the you know what when they should be raising merry hell for being compared to terrorists.

The legislators need to pass a law that makes sharing for no money *legal*. I wonder how many real pirates love this debate because it distracts from real money making pirate operations ?

Re:They pull a knife, we pull a gun (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442391)

Funny thing the swedish parliament has passed so many stupid laws in recent years, when the constitution contains so many Good articles!

Sound familiar to any of you Americans?

Not fun anymore (4, Interesting)

castrox (630511) | about 5 years ago | (#27441643)

I, and I bet many others with me, don't think it's fun anymore. While a good many proceeds to download songs, movies and TV series using other protocols than e.g. torrents, there are those that recognize that it's not a sustainable situation. I stopped downloading questionable material the 31st of March.

Legislation will get worse and worse to the point where we are all under constant surveillance. We don't need to give "them" any more leverage to these draconian laws. We are in our right to fileshare on a personal level - that is, with friends and family. Let's stop filesharing with "strangers" and we're untouchable.

There's a huge discussion on obfuscation techniques and VPN solutions for consumers -- they're ignoring the upcoming EU directive on mandatory requirement to keep logs. Ergo, when anonymisation services keep logs, you're no longer anonymous.

I for one have "given up" my habits completely. I play by the rules set by the industry. If they cannot offer me what I want (unencumbered digital music), then I simply do not buy from them.

I also enjoy Spotify a great bit - the only thing I really miss is a service that lets me download TV series.

Lastly, the only torrents you'll see on my system is OSS like Debian and Ubuntu ISO:s.

(Yes, I am Swedish.)

Re:Not fun anymore (2, Informative)

jchillerup (1140775) | about 5 years ago | (#27441687)

I play by the rules set by the industry.

Fight for your digital freedom, join the EFF *now*.

So your point is? (4, Insightful)

castrox (630511) | about 5 years ago | (#27441713)

I fail to see your point. Downloading stuff that the authors seems to completely hate you for is somehow Freedom?

No. That's a childish approach. With freedom comes responsibility. Now, I think the industry is behaving like a rabies dog but they're within their rights to disallow us to copy their material without giving them a krona.

Freedom is to being able to NOT BUY INTO THEIR SHIT. Accept their rules since it's in fact codified, but refuse to participate in transactions with them unless you're offered a FAIR DEAL and things YOU ACTUALLY WANT.

Re:So your point is? (5, Insightful)

jchillerup (1140775) | about 5 years ago | (#27441735)

Fair points which I certainly agree to. I rest my case, however: I will not let lobby organizations like the MPAA or RIAA have more power than any other company in the world. If they start acting like the police, some authority should stop them instead of making their lives easier.

Re:So your point is? (5, Insightful)

pimpimpim (811140) | about 5 years ago | (#27441805)

So, we are all like you and all stop filesharing. It's not like the surveillance will stop all of a sudden, enough alternative reasons to extend the surveillance will come up. Current german minister wanting to censor child porn websites, etc.

It's a bit naive to think that these regulations are related to the actual behavior of the population, there just needs to be an excuse that sounds reasonable enough to most of the population to accept it.

Re:So your point is? (1)

h4rm0ny (722443) | about 5 years ago | (#27441953)


He's not alone. For everyone who posts something, there are usually a lot who don't but think the same. I am very much against some of the measures that are being proposed for combating piracy, but I recognize that people's behaviour in such widespread copyright infringement has provoked such measures and given a certain amount of legitimacy to them. The GP is right - this isn't sustainable and if it progresses, it's just going to wreck aspects of the Internet for all of us and, sadly, damage the ability of artists to sell their material without having to depend on a big label to manage it for them.

Re:So your point is? (5, Insightful)

martin-boundary (547041) | about 5 years ago | (#27442109)

The GP is wrong. The only thing that can wreck the internet (in your part of the world) is *you*. Specifically, it's people like you who refuse to protect the internet from censorship. The reason is irrelevant.

Have you forgotten about the terrorists? They are just as good a reason for censoring the net than filesharing, or X numbers of other lame excuses. If you want the internet to be free from censorship in Sweden, you have to fight by imposing your will on your politicians.

At the moment, you and the GP have battered wife syndrome, you are saying it's us, if we change then the politicians and other bad people will have no reason to do this to us..

Guess what? Your internet will be censored unless you stand up and say no. That means, not accepting simplistic demonizations of filesharers, and not accepting the travesty of copyright that now exists. Your culture is being taken away from you *today* through stupid international copyright extensions. Death of author + 70 years means you don't get to read a book freely, your children don't get to read freely, your grandchildren don't get to read freely, and on and on. When your kids ask you what you did to make the world a better place, what will you say to them?

Re:So your point is? (5, Informative)

bigge111 (1523263) | about 5 years ago | (#27441827)

I disagree to some extent. It's in many cases not the "authors" who hate you for downloading the material. In England for example, 140 artists has organized to let their fans download their material peer-to-peer (artists including Radiohead, Peter Gabriel, Annie Lennox and Robbie Williams). As for Sweden, one of the most popular artists, Håkan Hellström, is used in the record companies arguments to forbid filesharing, when in fact Hellström himself at numerous occasions has said that he rather see people downloading his music for free than not beeing able to listen to him to the extent they want to. So freedom in this case is NOT turning against the artists or authors. (Writer Marcus Birro said in his radio program Karlavagnen that if people read you texts for free, then maybe you can do something else to earn your living, as long as you get the message out there. Like having your own radio show, perhaps?) I think the truth is that the record companies see a future where they are disposable. And if they continue to criminalize their onwn customers instead of adobting to the new techdriven "set of rules" in society, they will be. But it seems as for now they actually think it's more convinient to legislate than finding new business models.

Re:So your point is? (4, Insightful)

Jurily (900488) | about 5 years ago | (#27442001)

Now, I think the industry is behaving like a rabies dog but they're within their rights to disallow us to copy their material without giving them a krona.

No, they're not. They're trying to sell air based on laws that originally regulated a privileged few among themselves. In the days where not everyone could afford a 'copying machine' it was perfectly okay. Things have changed, laws essentially didn't. I, for one, oppose any law that criminalizes a significant portion of the population without any benefit whatsoever in return. Intellectual Property doesn't exist. Get over it.

Freedom is to being able to NOT BUY INTO THEIR SHIT. Accept their rules since it's in fact codified, but refuse to participate in transactions with them unless you're offered a FAIR DEAL and things YOU ACTUALLY WANT.

I accept their rules as soon as they stop writing new ones when not enough people are breaking the existing ones.

Re:So your point is? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442067)

I feel the same way but take the opposite approach.

I love music. I used to purchase at least a couple of albums a month. I have hundreds of them. Now there's no way in hell I'm giving them a dime. The only time I buy music now is from completely independent artists. The rest get pirated.

When someone bullies you, you're saying to just run away from the bully. They're buying laws and corrupting our society. You're saying to just accept that and to do as they say as they destroy art and culture.

Re:Not fun anymore (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27441705)

Good for you for doing what you think right and all, but my opinion is that these industries are on an all-out campaign to keep their stranglehold on the "industry" of entertainment, milking as much money as they can possibly get their hands on, so I really don't give a damn what they think is fair. They want to bend me over, I'm going to chase them around and bend them over instead, if I can.

Re:Not fun anymore (1)

iminplaya (723125) | about 5 years ago | (#27441789)

Legislation will get worse and worse to the point where we are all under constant surveillance.

You are such a pessimist [slashdot.org]... Must be those long winters

Re:Not fun anymore (4, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | about 5 years ago | (#27441817)

Legislation will get worse and worse to the point where we are all under constant surveillance. We don't need to give "them" any more leverage to these draconian laws. We are in our right to fileshare on a personal level - that is, with friends and family. Let's stop filesharing with "strangers" and we're untouchable.

Why? Do you think your rights will be protected if you bend over? Do your think they'll let you file share with friends and family? Hint: DRM, anti-DRM laws and other crippleware. Sharing with my friends that again share with their friends only leads to to six degrees of Kevin Bacon before everyone from me to the Pope has it. They will not stop until such a thing as private communication is brought to an end. If you are Swedish you should know about FRA, IPRED, that just recently Aktuelt showed another proposal from the government to give SEPO access to FRA surveilance and so on. Already the EU directive on telecommunications is supposed to keep tabs on everyone you're in contact with, as you say laws are being put in place to shut down all anonymizing services, open access points and so forth. And this doesn't bother you? You just want to play along "by the rules", in your own words? You want to do the same when they require that everything you do be decrypted and passed through their proxies so they can be sure you're not a vicious file sharer too?

I would say: fight it [piratpartiet.se]. The Pirate Party has increased massively in size the last six months and keep reaching new heights. They're now chasing Folkpartiet in membership counts and is Sweden's second biggest youth party - if they keep going like they have in the last months they'll be the biggest soon. This is pretty much a whole generation saying "we want file sharing". If you're Swedish, help them out in the EU election in June - Europe needs someone to speak up against all the Orwellian laws showing up all over the place. Because it will not get better by itself, it'll only get worse. I've decided to donate to them even though I'm in Norway, noone here seems to have the balls to stand up to the EU, which has become the place to pass all the unpopular laws and for national politicans to just throw up their hands and say "we must".

Counter-productive (2, Insightful)

castrox (630511) | about 5 years ago | (#27442103)

Of course it bothers me with the slippery slope that is the surveillance legislation orgie, but this story and my comment is not on those issues.

I'm already a Pirate Party member.

What I realize is that continuing to fileshare copyrighted works is COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE to the cause.

By the way, I really am Swedish.

Re:Counter-productive (1)

Kjella (173770) | about 5 years ago | (#27442293)

What I realize is that continuing to fileshare copyrighted works is COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE to the cause.

Has is really ever been the case that stopping to do something has been productive in legalizing it? I'm happy to hear good examples, because I can't think of any. In at least 99% of the cases it's been "We're doing it, we don't think it's wrong, now change the law". Not "Ok now we've all stopped doing it, can we legalize it now?". All you'd get is more bullshit on how that should happen any day now while the support and recruitment goes away until you can be ignored again.

Re:Not fun anymore (1)

purpledinoz (573045) | about 5 years ago | (#27441859)

The worst thing that can happen to the music and movie industry is the people completely ignoring them. Clearly this is happening for the parent, and it's happening to me. I find myself downloading less and less, buying less and less, caring less and less.

Re:Not fun anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442033)

What if you can't get the content you want, even from onlines stores, in the country you live in?

I live in Estonia but was raised in America and if you go to the local music store, its crap, only pop/rap/crap that I don't like. I can't find the music I like here to purchase. I don't have a credit card so I can't purchase online since PayPal won't accept Estonians for whatever reason so to get the music I want, I have to torrent it.

Next up, TV shows. I am a huge fan of The Office and a bunch of cartoons but they just don't show them here on TV and of course don't sell the DVDs either and the free watch your shows online services only work in America so what in the world can I do? With all the fun region coding I would have to go to somewhere like the UK, buy a DVD player and the DVDs there and bring them back just to watch the stuff. No, if they won't offer a legal alternative then yes, I will torrent it.

Re:Not fun anymore (1)

dpx420 (1210902) | about 5 years ago | (#27442143)

You fail to realise that the worst-case laws that outlaw all anonymising software, open wifi access points, p2p software, and the introduction of total internet surveillance will happen ANYWAY, EVERYWHERE in the world. Only when this situation has been suffered for many years will the pendulum start to swing the other way with a change in culture and peoples tolerances, possibly even revolution. The sooner the dystopia starts, the sooner it will end.

Re:Not fun anymore (2, Insightful)

rastoboy29 (807168) | about 5 years ago | (#27442167)

You are a damn fool if you think that will work.

These people don't understand reason.  The correct answer is "fuck 'em".

Re:Not fun anymore (1)

master_p (608214) | about 5 years ago | (#27442169)

I wonder why all filesharing is not encrypted by default. Then your ISP wouldn't know what you download.

They will just switch excuses i think (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442193)

how about the following:

terrorism

child porn

IP woes

I think that a surveillance state is being pushed on us a combination of benevolent idiots and/or power freaks. downloaded content, much like the vcr (Boston strangler) and the phonograph(derided as a subversive tool of communism) will be both a threat and a benefit to content providers, but it is feared by the dominate media powers that be as it is seen to be disruptive enough to break up the status quo.

I'd take a guess and say that these laws are more about content control and political intimidation rather than about any legitimate sense of copyright/ patent/ trademark protection(I hate the vague term "IP") . The stuff I listen to you wont find on a top 40 list or on any radio station in my area. This whole " download equals lost sales" idea has had it validity questioned in several studies that I am too lazy to look up at the moment. iirc, there was one by Alan Greenspan and other groups ,several antedotes by independent musicians, and some other vague thing that I would remember if I wasn't so tired.
At least in the United States, copyright was originally seen as a needed evil to spur creation of culture and ideas. one of the great ironies of the pro IP groups, such as Disney, is that many of the works that they established themselves on would have been out of reach had current IP laws been in effect. Hollywood existed as a way to escape copyright/trademark in the rest of America. America's early industrial success happened to its extent because many early American factories were clones of British ones that several men had memorized.Take a look at canals and their lobbying when they were starting to be replaced by the railroads to see how excessive market protectionism can interfere with the evolution of the economy. I fear that excessive control of our culture for business interests has lead our culture to be sterilized, inefficient, and decadent. To be somewhat fair, I believe that limited IP laws in terms of scope and length can contribute to culture. I personally would have that defined as 15-25 years depending on the pace of the medium, its ingenuity and relevance to its field in general. Infringement should be scaled as portion to the offense, uploading a CD for noncommercial purposes should have less consequences than assault or stealing a copy for a store in my opinion.

Getting back to your post, I think that IP theft is the excuse for the rise of the surveillance state in the wold, not its reason. governments are increasingly starting to see their citizens as children and servants to be monitored and controlled. I think that the excuse changes, but the agenda stays the same.
  rant's over. My sense of entitlement is getting the better of me, so I leave it as an exercise to a karma whore to find the specific examples for me, and for a media shrill to refute my fatigued rants.

I wonder... (3, Interesting)

jchillerup (1140775) | about 5 years ago | (#27441661)

... how they're going to stay online. The service itself has to be hosted somewhere where they won't have too much hassle with the constant influx of copyright complaints. The *AA companies will then be able to kill two of birds with one (or the cardinality of the userbase with one stone) by just getting whatever details about IPREDator they need and taking them to court for their illegal downloading. We have to remember: while The Pirate Bay remains legal, the illegal downloading has always been, and I'm very interested in details as to how they keep this service running in any country if they claim responsibility of their users' actions.

Anonymous networks (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27441681)

Traffic in the I2P network is up 30%. I suspect there's an increase in other networks as well.

Re:Anonymous networks (1)

pipatron (966506) | about 5 years ago | (#27442385)

I sure hope you realize that traffic in the I2P network will show up in the "normal" network traffic stats, right?

This is great! (0, Redundant)

bigge111 (1523263) | about 5 years ago | (#27441693)

Legislating against both the technology development and society development is a great way to keep back humanity. Congratulations Henrik Pontén, you've succeeded to stomp on the break of humanity's accelerating steps of knowledge. At least for a couple of days. If you're lucky perhaps even for a week! You're the greatest! Now, please run along and forbid axes so we can go back to using rocks...

30% drop *in Sweden* (5, Informative)

wilsoniya (902930) | about 5 years ago | (#27441699)

not a 30% drop in all net traffic.

From TFA: Internet use in Sweden dipped by 30 percent on Wednesday...

Ah, bad science and statistics.... (5, Insightful)

subreality (157447) | about 5 years ago | (#27441719)

sends a very strong signal that the legislation works.

Or it might be an indicator that the legislation has a chilling effect on free speech and fair use.

Re:Ah, bad science and statistics.... (2, Insightful)

bigge111 (1523263) | about 5 years ago | (#27442007)

It may also be a boost for material not published by big companies but by artists and writers themself. At least I hope so. The record company belongs to the old economy and is not really needed any longer, which I think a lot of artists will realise in the near future. If there is something good coming out of this, it is that even the artists themselves is becoming more and more aware of the possibilities for them with the new technology. We may see more diversified art, more niched and less mainstream, when the big companies get cut off. After all, their role is mainly to provide the economic resources, which is less and less needed today since technology gets cheaper and cheaper.

Re:Ah, bad science and statistics.... (4, Insightful)

Meneth (872868) | about 5 years ago | (#27442135)

sends a very strong signal that the legislation works.

Or it might be an indicator that the legislation has a chilling effect on free speech and fair use.

Which is the way it's supposed to work...

According to its designers, the MAFIAA [mafiaa.org], anyway.

Organized boycott (1)

bigge111 (1523263) | about 5 years ago | (#27441741)

Honestly, somebody should organize a boycott for one week when nobody downloads a single byte of music, movies, tv series etcetera. Not "legal" nor "illegal" (unsigned bands and "legally free" material excluded). Let those companies that pisses on their on customers be totally dead for one week. Make it a global manifestation, then maybe they will wake up from their slumber and accept that customers of today don't care for yesterday's business models and that they actually have to be so creative that they say they are. Why not make it a week when you take some time to discover some great undiscovered bands?

Yeah, it works. (5, Informative)

hyfe (641811) | about 5 years ago | (#27441743)

Of course it works. In Norway there has been serious talks (like, not only nerds in basements) about not routing traffic through Sweden anymore. I don't know if anything came out of it, but I'm willing to bet it's affecting long-term plans on where to build pipelines.

The bill doesn't just cover traffic to/from swedish households, it covers all traffic entering and leaving the country.

Re:Yeah, it works. (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27441775)

IPRED is not the same thing as FRA. IPRED doesn't affect the Norwegians :)

WB ( heart ) TPB? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27441747)

Most of that drop was everyone dropping the WB/TPB love-in April Fools joke torrent!

Traffic down 30%, sales up by...? (5, Insightful)

richie2000 (159732) | about 5 years ago | (#27441753)

The arguments for implementing and enforcing this law is to "encourage legal alternatives". So, after a 30% drop if file-sharing traffic, we'd expect to see a 30% increase in sales of CDs, DVDs and e-books. Or, there is no correlation between downloads and lost sales, just as a bunch of scientific reports suggest.

Anyone care to wager that this purported increase in sales will not, in fact, happen?

Or Or (2, Insightful)

future assassin (639396) | about 5 years ago | (#27441905)

Wouldn't it be funny if sales of music dropped even more now that people don't sample before they buy. Other wise they'll just blame is on some new fangled technology that they now need to also make illegal because since there was no increase in sales people must have moved onto this new secret technology to steal even more music.

Re:Traffic down 30%, sales up by...? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27441941)

The increase in sales will never happen, and then the industry will push for IPRED 2.0...

Re:Traffic down 30%, sales up by...? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27441951)

If you're going to make this argument, please do it correctly. Firstly, a 30% drop in file-sharing traffic is not equal in content to a 30% increase in legal distribution. The assertion that it is is simply wrong. Secondly, correlations do not have to be 1 to exist. Not every non-download need translate for a correlation to exist.

Please, for your own sake, make arguments that are at least representative of reality. The constant assertions that opposition to piracy is a strike against freedom, or that 'intellectual property' shouldn't exist do not help your cause. Like it or not, message control matters. Am I asserting that you should all sit down and shut up, because the adults are talking? Well, no. If you want to see change, you have to convince people. And the community is pretty terrible at that.

Let me elaborate. Consider the 'you wouldn't steal...' campaign. It's effective - at least for now. There's no opposition, no calm source for a counterargument. If some curious person ends up here, and promptly runs into fragments such as 'imaginary property', 'information wants to be free', and, of course, 'MAFIAA', there's a chance they'll feel like I would if I ended up at Free Republic. Presentation... is relevant.

Incidentally, I find the 'coward' part of the anonymous username more than a little amusing in this context.

So why is 1 download 1 lost sale? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442049)

That's the argument over Jammie's $220,000 fine for 24 tracks: an uncountable number downloaded and that is an uncountable loss to the recording industry.

In that case, 1 download is 1 lost sale.

If this IS the case, then 1 unmade download is 1 gained sale.

Your comment is wrong.

Re:Traffic down 30%, sales up by...? (2, Insightful)

Toonol (1057698) | about 5 years ago | (#27442051)

I suspect everybody was downloading everything they could right up until March 31st, and that a part of the decline on 4/1 was just a return to normal volume.

Will Magnatune et al. notice? (1)

catman (1412) | about 5 years ago | (#27442065)

It's been a long time since I bought music in a store, but I find myself looking with increasing interest at what Magnatune offers. Currently downloading a Bach album ...

Well, considering the date of the traffic drop... (1)

SuperMo0 (730560) | about 5 years ago | (#27441825)

I know I avoided pretty much the entire Internet like the plague April 1. It really is quite the annoying day to be online, what with Youtube going upside down or whatever. Does it explain all of the 30%? Probably not. Does it explain some of it? Probably. I could be ignorant about whether Sweden celebrates April Fool's, but...

Hogwash (1)

aoheno (645574) | about 5 years ago | (#27441865)

300,000 people lost their jobs in March and immediately canceled their Internet connection with service continuing through March 31.

Traffic increased 30% at libraries and Internet cafes.

The law had no effect.

Re:Hogwash (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442267)

300,000 people lost their jobs in March and immediately canceled their Internet connection

Can you prove this, or are you just talking out of your ass?

It would really surprise me if it's true - because a) it's unlikely that all of them would do exactly the same thing, b) an internet connection is not that expensive, c) internet connections are utterly vital to jobseeking in Sweden, and d) the cost of large-scale use of internet cafes (20-30h over a month) can easily exceed the monthly cost of an internet connection. What you postulate therefore looks not only unlikely, but also relies on a mass amount of people all acting illogically.

I find people who state with ultimate certainty what may only be true in their own heads both funny and sad. It's quite common in Sweden, a sick society and a sick culture.

Re:Hogwash (1)

Imsdal (930595) | about 5 years ago | (#27442363)

Can you prove this, or are you just talking out of your ass?

It is completely the latter. Unemployment is expected to rise in Sweden (like in most of the western world) but it hasn't happened yet to that extent. And even when unemployment rises, internet subscriptions won't drop by much.

Not conclusive stats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27441879)

The stats do not include the major ISPs (Telia, Tele2, Telenor) but instead only the minor once using the Netnod nodes. Sure you can draw some kind of image from this but it's far from complete.

fascism (2, Interesting)

michalk0 (1362753) | about 5 years ago | (#27441967)

this law is just another evidence, that in essence, all forms of state eventually evolve into the same socialist-fascist tyranny that feeds on individual liberties [to justify...] and private property [..and support its function].

Just use Tor (0)

whyqazmailinator2 (1523297) | about 5 years ago | (#27441977)

I read somewhere to use Tor. Naturally and basically enable on the client encryption (will add significant overhead, and it will you download WILL be slow), obviously install privoxy and tor. Configure your torrent client to use http through privoxy (127.0.0.1:8118) and to too use sock 5 to tor it self (127.0.0.1:9050). Cheaper way of anonymity.

And when sales don't go up (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442017)

or even go down, will they say this is proof that piracy is NOT a problem?

Unlikely.

VPNs are irrelevant (4, Interesting)

wintermute000 (928348) | about 5 years ago | (#27442023)

IPREDator and any other VPN or tunnelling solution is moot.

Only a small proportion of the file sharing population have the nous to sort it out.

If they drive off the majority of the file sharers, their job is done. The tech underground will keep swapping files like they always have done, its getting the masses off browse and click bittorrent that's the main objective.

My dilemma is this ... (5, Interesting)

MartinSchou (1360093) | about 5 years ago | (#27442089)

I like certain TV-shows. "Heroes" is one of them.

It's currently in its second season here in Sweden. But I don't have a TV, nor do I have the time to watch it when it's on the telly. Oh, and it's in regular TV-quality. The iTunes store sell the TV-show though. But not in the Swedish store. They don't sell ANY movies or TV-shows in the Swedish store.

I can buy the first two seasons on DVDs (and maybe blu-ray, not sure), but since most of the people I talk with on a daily basis are from the US, I can't really talk about the TV-shows - it's like being more than a year behind with the news. Current events aren't really all that current.

I've seen the first season on DVDs. It's a cool show. I'd like to keep up with it. I'm more than willing to pay the I think 35$ an HD quality season costs on iTunes, but aparently my money aren't good enough for these people (I doubt it's Apple's decision).

Browsing through the US store I see lots of shows I'd like to watch and buy. Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog being one of them, but again, that's only available in the US store. That makes no sense though, as I can buy it on Amazon, and it's not like that show will ever be syndicated - what TV-network would buy a 3 episode show with a total runtime of 45 minutes?

Hell, I'm willing to pay two dollars to watch an episode of something, just to see if it's any good.

Essentially my dilemma is as follows:
I can break the law by making a fraudulent claim that I'm in the US and buy the stuff I want. I'm sure this is illegal in other ways than the fraud bit.
I can break the law by downloading the shows I want to watch and sample new stuff
I can buy a TV, wait a few years for my local networks to hopefully pick up shows that I'll find interesting and then watch it.

I don't really want a TV - partly because I am then forced to pay a yearly tax on it, partly because I don't really watch it. I had a 42" plasma from janurary 2008 to august 2008, and I think I watched a combined total of 4 hours of TV on it, the rest was gaming and watching movies.

I don't really want to break the law. I don't mind paying to support the production costs of the stuff I like, I don't mind paying to support a distribution system I like. But aparently I'm not the kind of person, "they" want to cater to.

"They" could learn a LOT from The Daily Show and The Colbert Report. I can watch their shows within a day of them being aired with no restrictions. They used to have embedded ads in their commercial breaks (not a problem), but they stopped that a while back, probably because the ads were aimed at a US audience. The Daily Show is even syndicated in Denmark - the broadcaster manages to put subtitles on it and show it with a two day delay, so it's not like there isn't a foreign market for it either.

My point is this:
"They" have no aparent interest in selling their stuff to me. My money obviously isn't good enough for them. If that's the case, why the fuck do they care if I download their stuff? It's not like it's a lost sale - they obviously do not want to sell it to me!

Re:My dilemma is this ... (2, Interesting)

KeX3 (963046) | about 5 years ago | (#27442195)

Oh how I want to mod you +5 ForTheWin. But that might be because I share the same predicament. I can't buy, I can't catch it on TV. I suppose the only way to catch show X is to buy a satellite receiver and subscribe the the channel show X is on, which is what they want me/you/everyone to do. Apparently they haven't realized that the time when people paid for 24h/day programming when they want 1h/week is over. Either they give me the ability to see the show I want, in the Late Night/South Park/Colbert Report way, or they give me the ability to buy and download the episodes after (or at) air-time - no matter where I'm located, or I'm going to pirate the hell out of their stuff and they'll never see a dime in either sales or ad-spots coming from me. Time to freshen up on Big Bang Theory. It's not here in spain, and if it by some miracle happened to be, it would surely be dubbed into incomprehensible jibberish.

Re:My dilemma is this ... (1)

KeX3 (963046) | about 5 years ago | (#27442277)

/. comments need the google mail 5-second rule.

Always annoying when writing a big post and forgetting to select "Plain Old Text". Bleh. Incomprehensible mess is the end-result.

Re:My dilemma is this ... (3, Insightful)

bradley13 (1118935) | about 5 years ago | (#27442327)

Or another anecdote: there is a movie we want to watch. No rental store in the entire country seems to have it. No shop in the entire country has it (it came out on VHS and was apparently never put onto DVD). I can't rent it, I can't buy it - so I downloaded it via a torrent. This is similar to the Google kerfluffle about out-of-print books. If the rights-owners can't be bothered to keep a work in the market, then the work is comparatively worthless to them. They really have no ethical basis to complain when the work is distributed by someone else in some other way.

Just keep watching that traffic... (4, Insightful)

Jugalator (259273) | about 5 years ago | (#27442099)

We've seen these things happen before after new legislation, but now watch the traffic slowly increase back again (and possibly beyond) previous levels in the coming few months. :-p

Hasn't been anything out there for weeks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442165)

No one downloads music anymore because they've got all they want. No one is downloading movies recently because they've also caught up on all the latest offerings and frankly there is nothing worth watching at the moment. Hasn't been anything out there for weeks. Why?

loss of 1/3 revenue? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442215)

I wonder if Hollywood will help replace the loss of bandwidth sales to SE ISPs....

the so called "anti-piracy agency"... (2, Informative)

cybe (92183) | about 5 years ago | (#27442329)

Just to clarify - Sweden does NOT have an government agency for dealing with intellectual property crime!
The "anti-piracy agency" referred to by the article is just the direct translation of the name "Antipiratbyrån", a private organization with the stated aim to "protect the rights of the artists and publishers".

The Antipiratbyrån is more like the infamous US company MediaDefender, doing the hands-on dirty work of the MPAA/RIAA special interest organizations.

Shema Jisrael, Adonai Elohemu, Adonai Echad! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 years ago | (#27442389)

>Or perhaps it is just taking some time for Swedish downloaders to figure out the new IPREDator VPN system from The Pirate Bay."

Does not help. The USA has warned Sweden it will stop selling advanced AMRAAM air interceptor missiles to the Swedish Airforce if media piracy persist. This large drop in Sweden's defensive capabilities would threaten the security of all swedish and scandinavian citizens' safety and security, due to increased threat of a russian invasion. (Currently the russian airforce has no countermeasure against the hi-tech AMRAAM missiles, but they can defeat swedish Gripen fighters if swedes have only the short range Sidewinder missile available).

The USA is staunchingly pro-Israel and understands that widespread media-piracy undermines the financial basis of the majority jewish-run global film and music industry. This would threaten the economic stability of Israel and the jews are more important for USA than the swedish, who have a nasty pro-nazi past anyhow.

Hear o' people of Israel, the Blessed One is your true and only God!

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