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Open Source Shooter Nexuiz 2.5 Released

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the let's-blow-something-up dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 309

Michael writes "A new version of Nexuiz, a GPL-licensed, first-person shooter, has been released. There are over 3,000 changes in Nexuiz 2.5, including new maps, new game-modes, enhanced graphics, new audio, and other major changes. Phoronix has posted a preview of this Nexuiz 2.5 release, with screenshots showing the impressive graphics and how it has raised the bar for open-source gaming. Details about the Nexuiz project are available at SourceForge."

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309 comments

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First Nigger (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27463829)

GNAA.

Production costs rumoured to be 16 million (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464597)

16 million cookies, I think. They ain't gonna get no money for it so you gets what you pays for.

Linux is ready for the desktop (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27463833)

I've just installed Linux, and I think it is finally ready for the desktop. Well done everybody.

Tool can be used as a tool (-1, Offtopic)

ciderVisor (1318765) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463895)

I've just made some toast and I believe the toaster is finally ready for the worktop. Well done everybody !

Re:Tool can be used as a tool (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27463937)

Oh shit, my Linux-based toaster can't pop out one of the slices.

It sure looks spiffy and has all kinds of buttons and dials and a big internal gear with a "K" stamped on it. It has a 1000-shade-of-toast resolution, but it still can't even pop out one of the slices half the time. Just goes to show that nerds have their priorities straight. Just like they can write treatises of how the world should work, but they can't even pick up a woman on Friday night. There's an analogy there, albeit not a car one.

Re:Tool can be used as a tool (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27463995)

If the stores didn't sell so much proprietary bread, this wouldn't be a problem!

Re:Tool can be used as a tool (0, Troll)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464697)

You're lucky, you can at least make toast one slice at a time. I bought one, and when I opened the box, it turns out I got stuck with one of those "BSD" brand toasters, and it really smells funky - I think it's dead (either that, or the smell of the people who developed it has worn off onto it).

Re:Tool can be used as a tool (1, Funny)

jabithew (1340853) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464243)

You know what they say, all toasters toast toast!

Re:Linux is ready for the desktop (1)

UbuntuLinux (1242150) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464105)

Yep as we can see here [slashdot.org] , this game runs more reliably on closed source operating systems then the open source OS's it was designed for, yet another clear indication of Linux being ready for the Desktop!

Bizzaro-UT (4, Interesting)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463835)

Are all of the maps UT maps or just all the the ones in the trailer?

Re:Bizzaro-UT (3, Informative)

Firehawke (50498) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464145)

Well, I certainly recognized Facing Worlds, but I saw a lot more Q3 than UT in the videos in the map overall.

First PS (5, Funny)

Bromskloss (750445) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463837)

Many games claim to be the first person shooter. I don't know whom to believe.

Re:First PS (5, Funny)

dns_server (696283) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463899)

I guess it's just a matter of perspective.

Re:First PS (0)

Minwee (522556) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464515)

And many other games claim to be the second person shooter, "On a Grassy Knoll". I think they're just nuts.

OMFG Based off of Quake 1 engine (3, Interesting)

ZeroNullVoid (886675) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463855)

This should run on crappy systems and good ones based off the system specs and engine.

Re:OMFG Based off of Quake 1 engine (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463869)

Same as Half-Life then...

Re:OMFG Based off of Quake 1 engine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464661)

If only it were true, ioq3 based OpenArena and even Tremulous get better performance on most machines, Nexuiz is extremely heavily modified and takes a fair bit more grunt, but it does look pretty impressive considering its roots.

Cheating? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27463871)

I've always wondered, how do open source games (Especially FPS ones) deal with cheating. Server side checks and such can of course be implemented, but what prevents someone from just turning all the enemies bright red?

With the source, one could even make a rather effective aimbot (Or just write a bot that plays completely by itself) and it would be nearly undetectable since any countermeasures are also open source.

I understand that even a closed source game will have its fair share of cheats, but open source is almost begging for them.

Re:Cheating? (1)

x78 (1099371) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463941)

Most FPS games have a voteban/kick method, or regular admin appearances.
I'd imagine it'd be the same with this game, if you notice someone is cheating then ban them.

Re:Cheating? (4, Interesting)

struppi (576767) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464055)

Yes, but how do you notice someone is cheating? Because he is good? In counter strike, any time someone enters a server who is much better than all the others, people start shouting "cheater". That doesn't necessarily mean they are cheating.

Re:Cheating? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464361)

I've played nexuiz for about two years and have not encountered cheating. There are some really good players, and it's obvious, because it's not about aimbotting. Sure, there are good snipers, but they also maneuver extremely well using techniques which take time to master. Noobs are really easy to pick out for this reason, and if one we're aimbotting, we'd know. Experienced players value the servers, and the people who run them are smart. Cheating is simply not an issue.

Re:Cheating? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464505)

Cheating is simply not an issue.

Wrong. You may not see something as obvious as an aimbot, but the best cheaters never get caught. In a twisted way, cheating without being detected is a skill in and of itself. I've used cheats off and on before in a variety of games and haven't been caught once. It's more widespread than you think because the evidence isn't always visible to you.

Re:Cheating? (1)

trum4n (982031) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464643)

who cares? he seems to enjoy the game, let him.

Re:Cheating? (5, Interesting)

windsurfer619 (958212) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464589)

I actually find it a complement when I'm kicked for "cheating" when I'm actually not :)

Re:Cheating? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464671)

Usually players would spectate and look for telltale "snapping" to players, where if someone is close to the player the player will immediately turn and aim right for their head in an instant. This is evident when they're not even looking in the same direction and they get a headshot a split second later.

I just experienced this in Left4Dead when a guy got 2 headshot/instakills on hunters seconds apart, while being completely blind. We also noticed the guy getting a bunch of noob achievements so it was his first time playing.

Re:Cheating? (1, Insightful)

Razalhague (1497249) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463943)

Yeah, just like open source OSes are just begging for viruses :D.

Re:Cheating? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463985)

Preventing cheating is more like DRM, you give the user's system information but restrict how that information can be used and the user can cheat simply by using that data in a way that's not intended.

Re:Cheating? (1, Insightful)

struppi (576767) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464065)

What a stupid reply. The parent made a point and gave good arguments for it. You just replied quoting some unprooved stereotype. Preventing cheats in games is indeed completely different than writing a virus, since you rely on client side security. And as you might know, client side security is always a bad idea.

Re:Cheating? (1)

Joren (312641) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464613)

Yeah, just like open source OSes are just begging for viruses :D.

In order to cheat, you just need to modify your own game's code and play. To spread a virus, you have to find a way to take advantage of or modify code that other people are already running. It's a different ballgame that may make things harder for open-source gaming, and I look forward to seeing how these challenges are addressed. I still appreciate the humor behind your post, though.

Re:Cheating? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464097)

Netrek, an ancient unix game, had a primative form of DRM to prevent cheating ages ago.

Re:Cheating? (1)

Patch86 (1465427) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464101)

When playing MP, what's to prevent the same server-side checks that are in all FPS games these days? And you can turn all the enemies bright red in proprietary games too- the models and texture maps are usually pretty easy to find, and don't form part of the binary (which is the bit people are talking about when they refer to open source).

And SP doesn't exactly matter- people are free to cheat to their heart's content if its just for them. Not that I know if the FPS in TFA even has a SP mode.

Re:Cheating? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464129)

In sauerbraten there is no protection whatsoever against cheats.
It makes playing on the net with high latency both possible and enjoyable since much trust is put on the client.
Aimbots and other cheats are there, they are detectable by spectators following the cheater. But i guess cheating is boring as most games seems ok.

I prefer sauer to the old versions of nexuiz, BTW.

Re:Cheating? (1)

janopdm (1292860) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464153)

I've always wondered, how do open source games deal with cheating

Easy. A ladder system. There will always be an aimbot fight at the top of the ladder, but it still matches players with other players or bots with the same skill. This won't allow you to brag about your position on the ladder, but for most of the population games are there to have fun, not to brag about your e-peen.

To prevent someone creating a new account to be able to play with an aimbot against casual players, an openid system would be needed to track the score and the amount of played hours of each account.

Re:Cheating? Solution: (1)

xororand (860319) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464267)

Play with your friends or in a league.

Re:Cheating? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464293)

In Quake 3 based games at least the server can be set to "pure" mode which will check that all default assets such as maps, models, textures, shaders, effects and sounds exactly match those that are being used on the server. Of course you can throw in a mod that uses the same path/name as an existing file, say a texture, that will overwrite the original texture when the game is loaded. This would allow your bright red models since a mod doesn't actually change the standard assets, it just extends them.

Because an aimbot will most likely be directly changing values in memory, it wouldn't be possible to automatically detect such a thing. Some of the primitive aimbots use colour as a guide where to aim, so they might be used in tandem with a mod that overwrites textures to solid colours to make the aimbot's job easier. In Quake 3, the server actually sends all information about all player locations, no matter their proximity, to each client. An aimbot would only need to look in the right place in memory to "see" where another player is relative to you and modify another memory value to make your character face in the right direction. Aimbots really only work well for hitscan weapons and usually have pretty characteristic signs.

In the end, it's not just open source games that are susceptible. All game are unless they utilise very intrusive measures like Punkbuster, which can cause compatibility problems, performance issues, lag and false positives. The fact that Punkbuster actively scans your system memory and sends that information to a third party location could also classify it as spyware.

Re:Cheating? (2, Informative)

Tei (520358) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464347)

Some QW engines use a closed source module. Since QW is GPL this is a small violation of the GPL no one care about.

I don't know how to handle this Nexuiz. Has to be easy* to pick the Darkplaces engine and compile a version with wallhacks. Most probably this is managed by real humans on the other side banning ip's and the sort.. and with a nice enough community where cheating is rare or non existant.

* to tell the truth.. DarkPlaces is (sort of...) a total rewrite of the Quake engine. It has interesting tecniques to speedup the rendering, and use today technologies. This complexitude will act somewhat like a "unintended obuscation" to make writting wallhacks somewhat hard.

Just consider it a new aspect of gaming... (5, Insightful)

jopsen (885607) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464359)

Why don't we just consider it a new aspect of gaming... ?
- May the best hacker win...

Re:Cheating? (1)

TeamMCS (1398305) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464493)

This very problem had me thinking yesterday. The problem is "Security through obscurity". Sure, you can hide the doors and windows on your house, it'll take the burglar a little longer to find the way in, but if he wants to, he will (CounterStrike). When we think about the open-source community, presumably they could take StO approach, they could pay âoepunkbusterâ to support their game, but letâ(TM)s be honest thatâ(TM)s not going to happen for many reasons. If an open-source game is popular enough to warrant cheating, low-lives excluded, and then the âoeWikipedia effectâ would come into effect. If a bug was found, usually by an experienced code-hacker, chances are that it wonâ(TM)t be long before someone patches that hole. Though I do not speak from experience, I would imagine the respect of your peers, the foundation of FOSS, would be a far greater reward than âoepwning some n00bsâ. Most, respected, hackers find an exploit in a piece of code out of curiosity; they are rarely the ones who choose to exploit it. Itâ(TM)s the script-kiddies who, casually, hack games âfor the fun of itâ(TM). So in short, once the game reaches critical mass, the problem would likely continually fix itself. http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2005/12/18/the_wiki_effect/ [boston.com] One final thought: I wonder how that would play out in a game like WOW.

Re:Cheating? (2, Interesting)

ion.simon.c (1183967) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464629)

...how do open source games (Especially FPS ones) deal with cheating.

I saw a social solution to this problem. Back in the day of Descent and Descent ][, (Both of which were closed source apps at the time.) folks would host matches explicitly for folks who wanted to cheat. If you ran into a cheater in normal play, you either ignored him, or generated another game. (IIRC, there was no kick/ban feature.) D1 and D2 were P2P games, not server/client, so it was trivially easy to cheat. Very few people did.

What type of DRM do they use? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27463879)

What type of DRM do they use?
Because EA has taught me that playing games without DRM is stealing and wrong ... very wrong.

Unless this installs some horrible boot-sector-writing DRM to my computer, it isn't up to EA's commercial quality standards and I don't want it.

Re:What type of DRM do they use? (5, Funny)

MrNaz (730548) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463979)

It's not often that I feel it's appropriate to say this, but this is one of the rare occasions where it is:

You want it? Go code it yourself!

(Oh, and before you whoosh me, I know the OP was joking.)

Re:What type of DRM do they use? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464021)

Should have left out the disclaimer so that whoever wooshed you could have been wooshed in return.

I maybe can help you. (1)

Tei (520358) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464317)

On the BSP loader, you only need to create a function that generate a CRC of the data loaded. And have something like a list of "banned" CRC's. That way, If you hate a mapper, because he is a ugly bastard, you can release a version of Nexuiz where his map's will not load at all (you can calculate the CRC of all his released maps). TADA!!... DRM for Nexuiz.

Awesome, lets hope it works now! (2, Interesting)

Seriousity (1441391) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463913)

I've tried to run Nexuiz on my ubuntu desktop and each time it's crashed the X server, hopefully I can share in the glories this time around! :D

Re:Awesome, lets hope it works now! (1)

eqisow (877574) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463961)

That may be an Ubuntu issue rather than a Nexuiz issue. Either way, hope it works for you!

Re:Awesome, lets hope it works now! (4, Informative)

Artemis3 (85734) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464023)

Don't use full screen mode (use windowed) and it works. Hopefully this has been fixed...

Re:Awesome, lets hope it works now! (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464405)

It's pathetic that we're still talking about things like this but windowed games with resize support can be made to behave just as if they were fullscreen games (but still supporting virtual desktop changes) by using compiz's window rules plugin. Set the game fullscreen in there, and disable argbx visuals (iirc) for anything OpenGL.

Re:Awesome, lets hope it works now! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464273)

stop complaining and code your own fix

Re:Awesome, lets hope it works now! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464579)

I've been running Nexuiz on Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Mepis, Debian etc for 18 months. Using an Nvidia 5200, ATI 9550 and now an ATI 4670. I run it full screen or windowed at various resolutions. The only problems have been caused by the lack of installed drivers, easily fixed with the appropiate download and install.

Also, A New Open Source Train Sim has reached v1.0 (1, Offtopic)

distantbody (852269) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463927)

openBVE has just reached v1.0.

This free and open source 3D train simulator was born in April 2008 as a replacement to the popular freeware programs BVE Trainsim 2 & 4. The lack of compatibility between BVE Trainsim 2 & 4 routes and the developmental uncertainty of the 5th version (originally named Boso View Express by the sole Japanese developer Mackoy) lead one resolute user to start openBVE.

The sole developer Michelle has done amazing work; openBVE beats out commercially available simulators in its ability to simulate starting resistance, inertia, curve resistance, gravity, toppling, coupling, air resistance, pressure, temperature and density, altitude, friction and wheel slip.

(Link to openBVE website omitted due to already unreliable servers)

Re:Also, A New Open Source Train Sim has reached v (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27463963)

(Link to openBVE website omitted due to already unreliable servers)

Good thinking! The only way someone could find the website now is if they used a search engine, but they'll never think of that.

Re:Also, A New Open Source Train Sim has reached v (1, Informative)

distantbody (852269) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464039)

(Link to openBVE website omitted due to already unreliable servers)

Good thinking! The only way someone could find the website now is if they used a search engine, but they'll never think of that.

If someone is interested enough they CAN google it. If not they'll probably just hit up the servers for some screenshots and leave.

Re:Also, A New Open Source Train Sim has reached v (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27463977)

Needs good packaging - my kid brother would LOVE this, but there's just way too many steps for him to perform. An installer for Windows, packaging for Linux.

Re:Also, A New Open Source Train Sim has reached v (0, Troll)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464001)

Because people who play twitchy arena FPSes are known for their appreciation of train simulators...

Re:Also, A New Open Source Train Sim has reached v (3, Funny)

Patch86 (1465427) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464127)

http://openbve.uuuq.com/en/index.html [uuuq.com]

I somehow feel a train sim posted in an offtopic comment might be immune to the traffic bombardment of slashdotting...

Re:Also, A New Open Source Train Sim has reached v (1)

jabithew (1340853) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464251)

Great! Now when I've finished sitting on the tube on the way home, I can sit on a virtual tube!

Anyway, they've got some details wrong; not enough people [uuuq.com] . I don't think it would increase rendering time a lot, just add some textures of faces squashed against the windows, or maybe a medieval woodcut of Dante's Inferno.

Re:Also, A New Open Source Train Sim has reached v (1)

rackserverdeals (1503561) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464393)

(Link to openBVE website omitted due to already unreliable servers)

Uhmm... you do realize the slashdot effect is only for the main story. Most links in comments don't get the same amount of traffic.

In addition to the RTFA phrase, there is a RTFC (read the fine comments) that is similar. You probably never heard of it because the people that use it, don't leave or read comments.

Working for nothing (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27463931)

From Wikipedia: "After four years of development with no budget, Nexuiz 1.0 was released on May 31, 2005, completely under the GNU GPL, and by the end of June had over a quarter million downloads."

Way to go, retards. Four years of development and no income from it. Let me sign up for a piece of that action !

Re: Also, A New Open Source Train Sim has reached (0, Redundant)

distantbody (852269) | more than 5 years ago | (#27463947)

Here are some videos of openBVE v1.0 [google.com] , and on Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] .

quake 1 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27463993)

hello 1996 called it want's it's graphs back.

They've raised the bar alright. (1, Insightful)

Computershack (1143409) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464009)

Wow they've really raised the bar on that one. They've now managed to get where Windows gaming was a decade ago. Give it another 4 years and they might get up to the quality of a game released at the turn of the 21st Century.

And that's the problem with gaming on Linux. Its not seen as that important unlike server stuff so it gets very little developer attention so can basically only progress at the speed that a few people can work at with the time they have spare after work and family commitments. They're also forced to use woefully out of date game engines if they actually want to get something out the door at any point. Even if you use WINE or Cedega, you encounter such problems as Counterstrike: Source only running in DX8 or not being able to connect to Punkbuster enabled servers in Battlefield 2. On the whole, it's a mess.

Re:They've raised the bar alright. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464215)

They've now managed to get where Windows gaming was a decade ago.

What Open Source game looked like this on Windows a decade ago? This is not about Windows vs Linux, this game is available to both of those platforms _and_ OSX. The comparison here - if you absolutely need to make one - is Open Source vs Proprietary games. And it's amazing what people are able to produce without getting paid for it.

Good job at bashing people who work on stuff on their free time. And yes, Wine owes you to work flawlessly with whatever Windows game you decide to throw at it, because you paid for it, right?

Re:They've raised the bar alright. (1)

Rockoon (1252108) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464385)

..and of course you realize that the game engine this is based upon was originally a proprietary one, right?

They have risen to the level of using a proprietary engine, QUAKE ONE, which was open sourced NINE YEARS AGO.

This doesnt say anything good about this case of open source gaming at all, especialy since QUAKE THREE was ALSO open sourced, and is now playable in the browser.

Now, the poser that YOU are attacking was commenting on THE ARTICLE, not the developers of this "open source project"

Give up your religion, man.

Re:They've raised the bar alright. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464681)

..and of course you realize that the game engine this is based upon was originally a proprietary one, right?

Sure, but how much of the original Quake engine is still there?

They have risen to the level of using a proprietary engine, QUAKE ONE, which was open sourced NINE YEARS AGO.

If we're bashing the Quake engine with it being old and all, you do realize that the Source engine used by Half-Life/Left 4 Dead/Portal etc. is based on the GoldSrc engine, which in turn is based on the Quake1 engine? There's not much if anything at all left of the original Quake engine in Source because pieces of it have been rewritten one by one over the years, and I expect this to be quite true with the Nexuiz engine too.

Strangely I don't see anyone bashing the Source engine because of the Quake ancestry.

This doesnt say anything good about this case of open source gaming at all, especialy since QUAKE THREE was ALSO open sourced, and is now playable in the browser.

If you're saying that Nexuiz should be based off Quake3 because it's newer, well, refer to the statement above.

As far as I know, Id hasn't released the improvements they made to Quake3 for the browser-playable version, so that one is not open source.

Torrent? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464011)

Torrent be here yarr!

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4821677

I'm sorry but the graphics are old... (3, Insightful)

emanem (1356033) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464017)

Come on, I'm plying on the PS3 at Killzone 2 and Resistance 2. The graphics is not comparable at all... Are we sure, Michael, that this is a new game? Cheers,

Re:I'm sorry but the graphics are old... (2, Insightful)

emanem (1356033) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464115)

Lol, who modded this as troll? Have you ever seen FPSes for PS3 or do you live in '90s?
I play warsow, and I like the graphics of the game, and that graphic is very functional to that kind of FPS.
But this is too much a delusion...
I expected definitely more...

Not Very Impressing (5, Interesting)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464019)

Sorry, I know that some people think you shouldn't criticize any free open source software, but this is really not impressing. It's kind of weird that with all the freedom they had the developers of this game only came up with a generic Quake Arena clone. If that's typical for open source games, then No, thanks.

Re:Not Very Impressing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464037)

Sorry, I know that some people think you shouldn't criticize any free open source software, but this is really not impressing. It's kind of weird that with all the freedom they had the developers of this game only came up with a generic Quake Arena clone. If that's typical for open source games, then No, thanks.

Hey man you are most welcome to atleast make up some concepts and do some coding there buddy boy. ;)

"And well this is quake arena done rite" ;P

Re:Not Very Impressing (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464139)

The Nexuiz team didn't actually do any coding now did they? The Quake engine was written by John Carmack, some guy hacked it up with a handful of new graphical features and the Nexuiz team chucked out some poorly made models and maps for it. If you're going to just make a generic MP deathmatch shooter, at least make it visually stunning so that it has something special. Anybody could take the Quake/Quake 2/Quake 3 engine, make some generic assets for it and release it as a "game". Unfortunately, most open source FPS games projects do exactly that. Why not try making a cooperative multiplayer game? How about a single player game with a great story? How about just anything different from MP FFA/TFFA/CTF?

If I were prepared to dedicate time towards a game project, I'd rather start my own (which I very well may be doing soon, provided I can find suitable voice actors) so that I can make sure it has some unique qualities rather than churning out yet another cookie cutter MP shooter. I certainly won't waste time helping to polish the turd that the Nexuiz team has pushed out.

As for your last statement, sorry no. Quake 3 Arena was done right from the very beginning. Nothing short of the original Unreal Tournament has ever been as good. In this case Nexuiz is simply an imitator with worse graphics, copied gameplay and an unimaginative new gametype.

I realise that my criticism sounds harsh, but the truth can hurt and if nobody gives anything but false or uninformed praise, then the people behind the project will never learn or try a thing.

Re:Not Very Impressing (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464191)

Exactly, that's what boggles the mind about such projects. Why on Earth do they try to do exactly what the big studios have done to death in a way they'd never be able to equal, rather than something different?

That's exactly as if independent movies tried to be like Armageddon or Die Hard 4. They don't because they know it would be shitty and no one would pay to see that, that's why they do precisely what big studios can't afford to do, they innovate, they go in wild directions, they take risks, and more importantly, they don't get over ambitious.

And actually, independent commercial games are the same way, because they *have* to make money, so they can't afford to fail. But FOSS doesn't have to make money, what they do is free, so if what they do isn't worth a penny it's fine because it doesn't cost a penny either..

Re:Not Very Impressing (5, Insightful)

physicsphairy (720718) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464213)

First person shooters have never been and will probably never be a competitive aspect of opensource. The major reason is because they are extremely content-intensive, and the collaboration advantages open source has in creating code just don't apply to things that require sound and art studios.

That out of the way, your complaint is totally invalid. While Nexuiz might not be an innovation to the genre, and might not smitten you with the highest res graphics, it still proves the concept of open source by taking something that already existed (the original Quake 1 source code) and continually improving it with user contributions. Hardcore gamers will definitely appreciate the never ending flow of UI and gameplay improvements. And if someone ever has a better idea, they can take Nexuiz and expand on it, whereas without that open source foundation, not only would they be delayed by years of extra work, they might not even start.

And I'm sure if you go to the trouble of reading the changelogs, you will have a much greater appreciation for all the work that has gone into it than you do just as some guy who plays the latest console releases.

Meanwhile, checkout TA: Spring for a RTS, and Wesnoth or Freeciv for turnbased strategy. If you aren't impressed, I suppose you aren't in to strategy games.

Re:Not Very Impressing (5, Insightful)

dave420 (699308) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464325)

That sounds lovely and all - I appreciate the immense amount of work the developers put in, but they ended up with a game that looks 10 years out of date. So what you're saying is that FOSS FPS games are made by people with the best intentions and skill, but end up being terrible when compared to closed-source commercial games.

Re:Not Very Impressing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464667)

but end up being terrible when compared to closed-source commercial games.

I don't know, closed-source AI is still sucks as much as it did 10-20 years ago. All the commercial games can offer more is shinier graphics.

And that's the only thing big money can offer more: more hours wasted on "realism" and better graphics. That's all the big studios can do better. Their playability, interface, controls, AI, aren't any better than indie games'.

Re:Not Very Impressing (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464567)

Not really true though...

While many not open source, there is a lot of high quality mods for other games out there, which means that it is possible for a group volunteers to create high quality game content, working together over the internet.

Take a look at the Black Mesa mod for HL2, for example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGlhgVz5r6E

I don't see why this level of artwork wouldn't be able to go into an open source game. But it haven't happened yet I guess.

Re:Not Very Impressing (0, Troll)

Jamie's Nightmare (1410247) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464669)

First person shooters have never been and will probably never be a competitive aspect of opensource. The major reason is because they are extremely content-intensive, and the collaboration advantages open source has in creating code just don't apply to things that require sound and art studios.

No, the major reason is because it's a genre that's way past it's prime. Take ID Software's entire lineup of Doom and Quake games plus throw in the Unreal Tournament series and you've got over 15 years of quality games that have pretty much covered everything you'd want to do with a First Person Shooter. Most of us who played these games back when they were new have long since moved on to games like Half Life 2, Call of Duty, STALKER, and Fallout. The gamers moved onto greener pastures, and we aren't interested in re-polished turds.

Like it or not, the art of creating good games requires you understand your audience. By in large, if today's gamers want to play something that looks like it is 10 years old, they will play the authentic classics. As it has been said, Nexuiz not only looks dated, but brings nothing new to the table. Better luck next time.

Giants Reptilians on my Godzilla movie?! (1)

Tei (520358) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464309)

I totally agree with you on one bit. The genre is somewhat like unoriginal. On the other part, it was the intention of the dev's to create preciselly that. Nexuiz is a long proyect, it was in active dev, in 2002, so is maybe a 7+ years old proyect. Is timeless, is a effort to create a very good "Quake Arena" gameplay. In his defense, Id Software also released this year "Quake Zero", and seems was wildy sucessfull. So seems there are people out here that want this type of gameplay. Maybe not u, and maybe not me. But other people like this type of fun, and Nexuiz deliver it.

There are lots of other games out here that are tryiing other ideas, but this one is about this core gameplay that is proven that is fun and as lots of followers. And IMHO, this type of gameplay is very good for the opensource model, but other type of gameplays are not good.

On the other side. If you don't like this type of Gameplay, Nexuiz is a opensource proyect AND a platform. You only need a bit of QC to make a mod with a totally different gameplay style. Maybe something like Natural Selection, or a action-RPG, or whatever you want.

Re:Not Very Impressing (1)

Jamie's Nightmare (1410247) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464565)

Amen to that. First thing that caught my eye? The players legs do not move when firing. It's like the Ice Capades without the ice. If I recall Quake 1 had the same behavior, but you can excuse that because it was 1997. Regardless, the ugly models and animation makes the game play seem very hoakey.

As an avid Quake 3 players back in the day, these maps are OK and sport some more modern effects like HDR and Bloom, but overall are of lesser quality than the old Threewave CFT maps, which were a nice bonus to Quake 3 for the price of $0.00

Bottom line? With commercial games you not only get good quality, but better user generated content too.

dated look (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464071)

I'm impressed this was done for free in some people's spare time.
However, it really looks amateurish and dated.

Re:dated look (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464425)

link to your work? plskthx.

Re:dated look (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464473)

Irrelevant. Whether the OP can do a better job or not is of no concern. Whether any other game can do a better job is what matters. By your logic nobody can say anything is bad unless they personally can do a better job.

"Wow, that Watchmen film really sucked!"
"link to your work? plskthx."

"This car is a gas guzzler!"
"link to your work? plskthx."

"Windows Vista is a horrible operating system!"
"link to your work? plskthx."

See how stupid you sound?

FOSS gaming has a long way to go... (5, Insightful)

John Betonschaar (178617) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464077)

Kudos to the developers and for someone who likes this kind of games it's probably good fun to play, but seriously, you can't really call this 'impressive graphics' or 'raising the bar for OSS gaming', can you?

It looks like they just took the Quake 2 engine with Quake 3 sound clips and recreated all the levels en textures.... badly...

Worst of all: from the video it appears there is literally zero innovation in the gameplay, its just adhd shooting and running with the same futuristic weapons all over again.

I can understand it's hard to create something that compares to a commercial game in terms of graphics and content, but you'd excpect some more creativity in the gameplay. There must be some guys with really crazy ideas they can try out.

Ugly weapons! (1)

ivoras (455934) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464165)

All the time I couldn't actually concentrate on anything in the video besides the weapons! The effects are ok and projectile "physics" looks playable but the weapons themselves are sooooo damn ugly!

Looks like FUN (4, Insightful)

BLKMGK (34057) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464167)

I see complaints that the engine is "old" and that the graphics aren't up to snuff with more modern games. I say "So What?!".

I like FPS and own all of the UT series of games as well as some of the older id games. I still find myself going back to UT2K4 over and over even though I have a later "better" UT3. Why? It's not the graphics, it's not the engine, it's not the sound - it's the gameplay. UT2K4 is FUN for me. Fun doesn't require super duper grpahics it simply requires engaging gameplay. With all of the custom maps, weapons, and other things added to UT2K4 it's a ton of FUN to play. Looking at the movies for this game it looks FUN just like the old Quake games were. Okay maybe the graphics aren't quite as good as a modern shooter but I don't appear to be paying $50 for it either AND honestly many of those bells and whistles found in expensive games don't add to the FUN. Kripes I had FUN playing the original Wolfenstein. the original Quake, why couldn't I also enjoy this one? Folks don't like the maps? Build better ones - just like what has been done with UT, Quake, Doom, and others. Stop bitching about that stuff and fix it if you really have heartburn with it...

Re:Looks like FUN (0, Flamebait)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464217)

Huh? If I hadn't noticed your short UID I'd ask you how young you can possibly be. UT2004 isn't old, and is objectively superior to UT3. Besides, you play Quake, UT and Doom, so why on Earth would you want to play that pale imitation instead?

Folks don't like the maps? Build better ones - just like what has been done with UT, Quake, Doom, and others. Stop bitching about that stuff and fix it if you really have heartburn with it...

Are you a moron? Yeah, right, let's invest some precious spare time trying to save the shit out of an hopelessly lame knock off game just for the sake of it. If you like lost causes there you've got one.

Re:Looks like FUN (1)

willyd357 (1293166) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464279)

Here, here!

Re:Looks like FUN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464409)

Here, here!

Where, where?

Re:Looks like FUN (1)

night_flyer (453866) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464555)

There, there!

Re:Looks like FUN (1)

thermian (1267986) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464455)

I find a lot of younger players are habituated to beleive graphical goodness == a good game, so they look at these less visually impressive works and extrapolate that the game itself is poor. Its hard getting past that. My son has managed it, but only because he was trying to 'get' why I still play games that were written before he was born.

The simplest answer it "don't like something in a project? Join the project and improve it". Alas this isn't usually what happens, because for every person with the skills, there are a thousand with loud ideas and critisism but no actual ability. Trying to clear the cruft from the mass of potential project members is a problem that can make you just reject everyone.

I know, I had the same problem. After receiving a huge amount of offers to assist in my project, I only found one person with the right attitude and skill. Most came in with grand plans, and then disappeared before doing anything more than taking up my time with emails.

Re:Looks like FUN (1)

xlotlu (1395639) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464651)

I see complaints that the engine is "old" and that the graphics aren't up to snuff with more modern games.

Besides, the engine is not "old" [icculus.org] . For more than a year, DarkPlaces does things that you can't even find in Quake 3: high dynamic range rendering, realtime dynamic lighting, parallax mapping etc.

Yes, 7 years ago the engine was a fork of Quake 1. And the point is?

Nexuiz can't compete with Quake Live and Tremulous (4, Interesting)

PNP_Transistor (1398577) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464255)

I don't see how a game like this can compete with something like Quake Live [quakelive.com] . Quake Live (still in beta) is free and has comparable graphics and gameplay. Yet it already has a much larger community, more polish, and runs more smoothly.

I understand that it is difficult for an open source game to have the same playerbase and polish as a professionally developed, ad-supported game. But at the very least Nexuiz should run more smoothly and should differentiate itself from other games that have already been released.

I'd say that a better open-source game might be Tremulous [tremulous.net] . Runs much more smoothly on my computer, and I often want to play it because its gameplay is different from other games I already have. Perhaps that's why there have always been more Tremulous players than Nexuiz players in my area.

Re:Nexuiz can't compete with Quake Live and Tremul (1)

thermian (1267986) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464481)

Why should it try and compete? They don't have the money, true, but so what?

Did the people who wrote Narbaculer Drop have much money? Nope, did they create an awesome game that got picked up and remade as a hugely succesful commercial product? Yep.

Tried World of Goo yet? That was low budget, almost certainly less graphically pretty than would have been the case if they'd had more cash, but the game is a commercial success.

Good graphics and funding won't create good ideas. For that you need a passion for the subject, artistic ability and lots of experience with games in general.

Possibly the guys writing it may be getting more out of the experience then the people who play it, but thats because they are also getting exactly the skillset that would put them in a good position to apply for positions at games development companies.

Regarding Cheating (1)

TwoSeven (1077371) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464289)

There are methods for this, but most prevalent seems to be using a closed source binary .dll/.so to check the signing of the binarys, to make sure you're playing with what the dev team shipped. This means playing on authentic servers using your own self-compiled blobs is unlikely.

GPL? Where's the source code? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464429)

I went to the sourceforge download page and could only find binary packages. Where is the source code? It's GPL!

I saw this phenomenon with another package yesterday too. It was NoMachine NX - looked interesting and GPL - again, no source!

What is going on?

Re:GPL? Where's the source code? (2, Informative)

esteel (938443) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464653)

Source is included in the zip file.. Stupid trolling on your part.

Re:GPL? Where's the source code? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464685)

So I've got to download 640MB of everything just to get the source? I'm sorry, I'm only on an 8mbit/s connection and life is short.

Stupid 3D sickness! :-( (1)

stesch (12896) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464469)

I can't even stand the video on http://www.alientrap.org/nexuiz/ [alientrap.org] :-(

So this is Quake 3 with little improvement... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27464501)

is that the 'high bar' with open source gaming? just downloading what ID open sourced years ago and add your own maps ?

  WOW, I'm impressed by their work!

Re:So this is Quake 3 with little improvement... (1)

esteel (938443) | more than 5 years ago | (#27464677)

Nexuiz uses a heavily modded quake1 engine, added effects like bumpmapping, reliefmapping, reflections, scriptable effects, realtime lights/shadows similar to the doom3 engine. Just downloading q3 sources? LOL you suck so bad at trolling.
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