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Fonera 2 To Launch With Extended Functionality

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 5 years ago | from the real-community-sharing dept.

119

The next installment in the Fonera router family is set to make its debut in a couple of weeks, and the additions to the hardware are relatively impressive. Promising full support for networked storage, automatic downloads, sharing of a USB 3G connection, and a few other perks in addition to the normal range of functionality found in the Fonera routers this package packs quite a punch. "Like the original Fonera and Fonera+ routers, the principals of this hippie-love-in-styled product still apply. You buy the router and hook it up to your internet connection as normal. The trick is that the router shares a part of your bandwidth on a public-facing connection. Other Fon owners can log in and use this public network for free. In turn, you — as a Fonera owner — can travel the world and use other Fon hotspots. It's a neat idea and everybody wins, except the money-grabbing telcos."

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A real hippie-love-in-styled product (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27482659)

Would have a hotspot open to all.

Not just the evil consumers that evilly used their evil money to buy the evil Fonera.

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1)

luvirini (753157) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482713)

Well.. in many places it is illegal to use an open accesspoint without permission.

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (4, Interesting)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482803)

Well.. in many places it is illegal to use an open accesspoint without permission.

Just wait... pretty soon it'll be illegal to provide an open accesspoint.

Because, you know, terrorists (or even child pornographers!) might use it.

The sad thing is, I'd be actually scared to put one of these up. People wardrive around my neighborhood all the time during the day... what if one of them was transmitting kiddie porn? Would I be legally liable? Even if I wasn't legally liable, would the potenital inconvenience of the legal issues outweigh the benefits of this product?

What if I live in Australia -- would I have to retain logs of all the traffic? And when will Americans be required to do the same?

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (4, Funny)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483143)

"But officer! My router firewall is strictly RFC 3514 compliant! Only a hacker could have done anything evil with my internet connection, and I can hardly be responsible for that."

*gets booked on kiddie porn/terrorism charges and shived in jail*

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27483199)

"But officer! My router firewall is strictly RFC 3514 compliant! Only a hacker could have done anything evil with my internet connection, and I can hardly be responsible for that."

People won't understand the joke since we all know from head every RFC.

this is /. you must be new here

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27483541)

Um, the evil bit is kinda legendary around here.

Where you been?

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (0, Troll)

Nutria (679911) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483833)

People won't understand the joke since we all know from head every RFC.

Google. It's really fscking simple to use...

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27483985)

Google href. It's really fucking simple to use, numpty.

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483477)

Which is exactly why I lock down my customers wireless routers using WPA. Because all it takes is for some perv to download kiddie pron on your line and it is YOUR life that is going to be screwed. So what if you are innocent? The question is how many years and how much in lawyer's fees would it take to get you out from under that cloud. So while a "share and share alike" idea might sound okay in theory, with the totally insane witch hunt we have going on when it comes to kiddie pron it simply isn't worth taking the chance. It truly has become a "guilty until proven innocent" charge, as those around you will assume you did it.

Personally, in this climate? I'd say you have to be nuts to take the chance just for some free roaming Wifi. Me I'll just buy a coffee at any of the bazillion coffee joints that offer Wifi and not risk having my door kicked in and my name ruined, thank you very much.

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1)

Nutria (679911) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483881)

the totally insane witch hunt we have going on when it comes to kiddie pron

Have you ever seen kiddie porn?

Usenet makes it all too simple, and let me tell you: it's not busty blonde 17 year olds "this close" to 18, and it's really, really disgusting.

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (5, Insightful)

dissy (172727) | more than 5 years ago | (#27484401)

the totally insane witch hunt we have going on when it comes to kiddie pron

Have you ever seen kiddie porn?
Usenet makes it all too simple, and let me tell you: it's not busty blonde 17 year olds "this close" to 18, and it's really, really disgusting.

Dude... How does the horribleness of those pictures in any way/shape/or form justify putting tens to hundreds of thousands of innocent people through trials and basically branded as guilty pedophiles for life, only to discover they really were innocent and let go?

Those peoples lives are ruined forever. Friends and associates lost, families torn apart, carriers ruined... All because the accusations make front page news for weeks, and the retraction and court outcome is 2 lines in small print somewhere towards the bottom of page E-10...

That is the witch hunt of which the GP speaks.

And No, I don't buy your excuse for why that is OK to do to people, simply because the pictures are really really disgusting.
If ANYTHING, that reason of yours should be EXACTLY why this madness needs to stop, so the real criminals taking the pictures and doing the child abuse might get caught, instead of given a week to get away while someone else is "investigated"

You truly are a sick person to prefer innocent peoples lives are ruined instead of the real criminals caught

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1)

PiSkyHi (1049584) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485393)

I just had to let you know that you have hit the nail on the head when it comes to societies lack of vigilance for truth, merely vigilance for mob mentality dispensed "justice".

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1)

Nutria (679911) | more than 5 years ago | (#27487259)

tens to hundreds of thousands

That's a pretty ambiguous number. Smells like propaganda to me.

Come back with documentation, or I call BS.

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1)

Jeruvy (1045694) | more than 5 years ago | (#27488179)

Oh, well 679911 says this is BS so it must be true!! Come on now, everyone retract your BS comments now, you've been caught and called out!

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (2, Interesting)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#27484515)

No, it's 14 year olds sending cellphone pictures unclothed to each other. It's Lolita, and it's a little boy whose mother took a picture of him when he happened to put his penis though a chain link fence and winds up arrested because the photo developer became freaked out. It's Traci Lords, doing adult films when she was 16 and making a bundle at it.

Is there absolutely disgusting porn involving abused children? Absolutely. Is anything classified legally as child porn automatically worth the furor and bother and anathema which the phrase automatically carries? No, not when a postal inspector can send unordered child porn to a porn house, get a warrant for it, and manage to convict them even though they never opened the box. (The charges they got convicted on weren't child porn, but the child porn raid from the entrapping postal inspector was how they gathered evidence.)

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1)

Nutria (679911) | more than 5 years ago | (#27487211)

No, it's 14 year olds sending cellphone pictures unclothed to each other.

What the hell are 14yo girls doing throwing themselves at boys? Have they no self-respect?

and it's a little boy whose mother took a picture of him when he happened to put his penis though a chain link fence and winds up arrested because the photo developer became freaked out.

Why in the hell is a woman taking a picture of her boy's penis stuck through a fence? That's just stupid. And weird. Really, really weird and disturbing that someone would want to save such a "moment" for posterity and future humiliation.

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#27487367)

You don't know a lot of 14 year olds, do you? Or haven't you looked at the teen pregnancy rates, or noticed that puberty happens about then? The girls were out of line, but child pornography felony charges are insane for that.

And the little boy happened to have no pants and was smiling at his mommy. (If I remember right, he'd been in a kiddie pool in the backyard.) He was a toddler, and hadn't even noticed where he was standing, so it was a bit weird but funny. You mean to tell me your parents didn't save any weird moments on film you'd rather they hadn't? I thought the picture was funny.

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1)

Nutria (679911) | more than 5 years ago | (#27487527)

You don't know a lot of 14 year olds, do you?

I remember. Parents didn't allow girls that age to date, and they (the 8th grade girls) had more of a flirty "catch me if you can" attitude.

Or haven't you looked at the teen pregnancy rates,

Yeah, I have.

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (2, Insightful)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#27487681)

Yeah, standards change. I certainly knew households where 14 year olds weren't allowed to date. I also know families where 14 year olds could marry (and one where a 14 year old girl did, with her parents blessing). And my grandpa remembered when women weren't allowed to show their ankles. And we both certainly know countries where women are not allowed to show their face in public, and cultures where their clitoris is removed to prevent sexual misbehavior. I _worry_ about trying to protect the children so much that we imprison them, frighten them, and keep them so ignorant they get badly hurt when they encounter the world outside their home, or even get hurt inside their home.

More wifi openspots= more safety for all? (2, Interesting)

zQuo (1050152) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485037)

Widespread availability of open wi-fi might make everyone a little safer from legal persecution as it provides more anonymity to both users and subscribers of internet services. Witchhunting prosecutors assume that an ip address must be the owner unless clearly proven otherwise; an assumption hard to disprove to those without technical knowledge. It's obviously untrue, as many different people use the connection at different times, even with no wifi connection at all. And wifi can be easily hacked. A closed wifi connection is secure only because there are other easier open wifi networks around to attack.

More widespread user anonymity helps because a prosecutor must have a clearly defined target to proceed with a case. Yes, the owner of an ip address has some responsibility for the usage on the account, but that should be covered under the contract TOS with the provider, but not by some legal fear of prosecution. Unless every device has it's own unique unspoofable ip address (ipv6?), then the link between a user and the ip address is too tenuous for any legal prosecution. Anything that breaks that link should help.

Fonera should be encouraged, even if you don't directly benefit. If more people have fonera or open wifi spots, it can't hurt, and it may indirectly benefit you if the some prosecutor knocks on your door, as it helps break the link between the many users of an ip address and the subscriber. Even people who don't believe in open wifi will benefit, as their closed wifi networks will be more secure by contrast.

For fonera subscribers, the direct benefit is that fonera gives a solid reason to have an open access wifi spot, so in a way, it does give some covering legal protection, despite the higher risk.

Re:More wifi openspots= more safety for all? (2, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485187)

The problem with your theory is this: You assume that the cops, the prosecutors, and the judge are all going to be perfectly logical and reasonable about this, which has frankly become the Red Scare of the 21st century. You know what they say about assuming, right?

The fact is the line stops at YOUR house. it is your door they will kick in, your computers they will take and possibly never give back, it is your name that will be in the papers the next morning, and it is YOUR ass that better have the money for a good lawyer or YOU are screwed. Did you honestly think anybody in their right mind would believe the crap like "Chuck Norris doing satanic rituals" in the McMartin [wikipedia.org] case? And how many years did they rot in jail? 3? 4?

You can't assume everyone with power is going to be reasonable or logical, especially with a hot button issue like this. As someone who has dealt with some seriously nasty cops I can tell you for a fact that some of them are mean motor scooters that would be happy to crack your head for a lot less than being a suspected kiddie fiddler. And if the prosecutor is running for reelection? Like an earlier poster said the proven innocent text ends up on page 10, while the charges make front page. If you are willing to bet 30 years of your life on everyone else being logical and reasonable, go for it.

But after spending many years of my life living on the wrong side of the tracks and seeing the supposed good guys do some seriously bad shit I know I ain't betting MY ass on their compassion, honesty, or detective skills. Or that a prosecutor is going to care more about my poor white ass being innocent than their own career.

Re:More wifi openspots= more safety for all? (1)

zQuo (1050152) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485385)

I agree. I agree with you totally. OMG, the stories you present are not very encouraging.

People with open wifi or fonera may be taking too much risk, as your posts (and others here) really make it clear. But as long as they know the extra risks, they should really be applauded for being courageous.

Re:More wifi openspots= more safety for all? (1)

shlompo (1338043) | more than 5 years ago | (#27486545)

I work for a company named Bzeek (www.bzeek.com). We provide a similar solution, using software only (without buying a router, just downloading).

We are planning to solve the security issue by forcing all public traffic through an encrypted tunnel to a server, which means your IP will be out of the radar. The "line" will end back at the server, and it's up to us to provide answers, in case there was illegal activity over the connection.

What do you guys think?

Re:More wifi openspots= more safety for all? (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 5 years ago | (#27487697)

I'd say don't keep logs. not for a year, a week, an hour, or even a minute. Because if you do a setup like that every 3 letter agency is going to come to you constantly looking for fishing expeditions.

You see, the problem is right now we are all caught in a battle. One side is the "if you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to hide" government never does anything wrong with their power types. On the other we have the "we need anonymity to preserve democracy" types who point out(and I believe rightly so) that is everything you ever said on the net could be tracked to your door it would have a chilling effect with folks afraid to speak freely. The whole child pron thing is frankly a red herring. It is an excuse for a power grab, nothing more. How do I know? Because if we were serious about stomping out that crap we wouldn't be giving a flying crap about some fat perv in his basement in Omaha and instead would be building cooperation with the EU to go into these former eastern bloc countries where cash will pretty much buy you anything and shut this shit down.

But that is not YOUR problem. Your problem is that every 3 letter agency is going to be looking at your servers like a fat guy looks at an all you can eat buffet. if your service gets popular it will be because people think it is safe to use, yes? People who feel safe aren't looking over the shoulder thus it is easier to "catch" them for doing what the government considers naughty. You see they have a big list of websites that they don't like and probably figure that only bad people would look at. Some are cp sites I'm sure, but there are sites that are considered "terrorist leaning" and then I'm sure there are others on that list that would make you go WTF because the reason the site was on there would make no sense except for the paranoid PHB who put it on there in the first place. And in case you missed the stories nowadays child porn can be teens taking pics of their OWN bodies [slashdot.org] and sending them over your network, or a a dirty Simpsons cartoon [slashdot.org] and thanks to the FBI running child porn honeypots [cnet.com] where they don't even record the referrer a rickroll can get someone thrown to the ground and drug off to jail. And let us not forget a company just had their servers snatched [slashdot.org] by the feds because someone that used them dared to put up a pre release of a crappy Xmen flick. What if that had been YOUR companies servers? Do you have enough capital to keep going if one of those users did the same to you?

For the above reasons I would not even THINK of building what you are purposing in the USA. The risk to reward ratio is simply too great. Either you spread 'em for every cop that walks through your door, which will get back to your customers who will avoid you like the clap, or you will spend all your time and money on lawyers fighting subpoena after subpoena for your records. if you do build it you better spend a LOT of time doing CYA like making damned sure nothing is logged. Because with the craziness of child offender laws nowadays pretty much anything could be labeled as child porn depending on whether a judge thinks they "look lolita" or not. And that encrypted tunnel will give your customers a false sense of security which I'm sure will make the feds and any other 3 letter agency just drool at the possibilities. So let me put it this way: Good luck with that and I'm glad I'm not you. Because I wouldn't want my ass in any way shape or form connected with what you are purposing. Because until some sanity replaces the mob mentality we got going over terrorists and cp it is simply too dangerous. See? There is that whole "chilling effect" deal, only instead of the users it will be YOUR companies ass that will get the crosshairs first. No thanks.

1984 (1)

mrraven (129238) | more than 5 years ago | (#27488021)

If we are really facing getting our doors kicked in for sharing our internet connections then we are actually living in an Orwellian police state and we ought to resist, not be cowards.

First they came for the open wi-fi users, and I was not an open wi-fi user so...

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (2, Interesting)

itsme1234 (199680) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485653)

Just wait... pretty soon it'll be illegal to provide an open accesspoint.

It's been already illegal in Italy for quite a while. Yes, in its most pure form i.e. not if you have an open access point and somebody does something evil, no. You are breaking the law just by having an open access point (with internet access), even if nobody ever connects to it.

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27486305)

Just wait... pretty soon it'll be illegal to provide an open accesspoint.

It's been already illegal in Italy for quite a while. Yes, in its most pure form i.e. not if you have an open access point and somebody does something evil, no. You are breaking the law just by having an open access point (with internet access), even if nobody ever connects to it.

FONERAS are legal in Italy because visitors have to be validated using SMS. A Prepaid Mobile card is validated using a valid identity...

Thesame for Germany.

Do check http://blog.fon.com/it to see FON in action in Italy.

In the UK all "public" traffic is tunneled; so your own public ip is NOT misused

in France only HTTP/HTTPS traffic is allowed on public hotspots...

for each country the fonspots are following the local laws / legislations

Meshnets are illegal in Europe? (1)

mrraven (129238) | more than 5 years ago | (#27488279)

That's just sad:

Meshnets may be one of the best ways to roll out free wireless to the urban poor like in my hometown of Ypsilanti Michigan. Will someone please stop these overly paranoid police state loving yuppies hyped on fear from "reality" tee vee from shutting down everything that is the least bit challenging and interesting?

http://www.metromodemedia.com/devnews/wirelessypsi0051.aspx [metromodemedia.com]

http://www.wireless.ypsi.com/ [ypsi.com]

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1)

Archibald Buttle (536586) | more than 5 years ago | (#27486413)

The "open" access point part of a FON router is not actually fully open. If you attempt to use it you get presented with a FON login page.

All owners of FON routers have a FON login. Other people can access providing they pay a fee.

Re:A real hippie-love-in-styled product (1)

Phoghat (1288088) | more than 5 years ago | (#27487091)

Used to listen to Howard Stern. On his show he used to play the answering machine message from NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association). This guy's voice is creeping me out because it sounds so much alike.

I wish they would just go back to "Red Hat Linux" (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27482691)

Hey, and I thought they were up to version 10 by now...

But... (1)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482697)

... the "hippie" aspect is only going to be as effective as it is popular.

communism...it works in theory! (2, Interesting)

gandhi_2 (1108023) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482737)

can travel the world and use other Fon hotspots

You're going to have to.

Can anyone tell me how this affects/is affected by the new data retention laws coming out? The "open wi-fi" defense? Stuff like that?

Re:communism...it works in theory! (4, Interesting)

c_forq (924234) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482827)

Since users would have to log in with their Fon account, wouldn't the burden be on Fon and not you?

Re:communism...it works in theory! (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483561)

But those laws are a joke and impossible to uphold ANYWAYS. Go find the original /. article on that and its all people laughing at how amazingly infeasible the law is.

Re:communism...it works in theory! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27486491)

when you log onto www.fon.com with the account you used to register your Fonera... you can see who has connected to your fonspot, for how long and how much data they spend...

FON is following the UK data retention acts (it's a UK firm)... and will answer all questions from police... they can even track the thief when it's visiting all fonspots by mac id...

how many thiefs are going to change their mac on each hotspot?

Why, oh why... (4, Insightful)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482739)

It does this all without a computer, so once you have it set up you can take your laptop out on the road and look forward to a new episode of Criminal Minds when you get home.

Why must people continuously tout the ability of these devices to aid in copyright infringement? Before you stop reading here, consider this: I'm posting this from an Ubuntu laptop. I publish all my software under the GPL and BSD licenses. I publish 99% of my other content under Creative Commons attribution-only licenses. So I'm doing my part to make the IP scene a nicer place.

All that said, it's ridiculous how many people would scream bloody murder over a GPL violation, while they're downloading someone else's content without the publisher's permission. This is beyond dumb, and it's precisely the reason BitTorrent is so poorly regarded by many publishers and ISPs. Yeah, I actually use it to download ISOs and other legal stuff, but to specifically encourage people to use it in ways that defy the law is idiocy.

People can't demand that their own rights be respected while they trample on those of others.

Re:Why, oh why... (3, Informative)

JesseMcDonald (536341) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483047)

All that said, it's ridiculous how many people would scream bloody murder over a GPL violation, while they're downloading someone else's content without the publisher's permission.

Two problems with this line of reasoning: 1) They may not be--and most likely aren't--the same people most of the time; Slashdot isn't some sort of group mind; and 2) Most GPL violations are carried out by organizations which otherwise vocally support copyrights, patents, and the like; even if one does not support these concepts oneself, it is still legitimate to judge others' actions by their own rules.

One final thought: The GPL was created in opposition to existing copyright law; its purpose is to take advantage of copyright schemes endorsed by others and so unwisely formulated into law to create a sort of "walled garden" where copyright, to a greater or lesser extent, does not apply. It is thus perfectly consistent to be both anti-copyright and pro-GPL, to the extend that copyright does exist in the law.

Re:Why, oh why... (3, Insightful)

corsec67 (627446) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483095)

It is thus perfectly consistent to be both anti-copyright and pro-GPL, to the extend that copyright does exist in the law.

Without copyright laws, the GPL would be unenforcible. The BSD style licenses are the anti-copyright licenses. GPL uses copyright laws to have some interesting restrictions, but definitely does depend on copyright laws.

However, the length of copyright protection is something else, and for most GPL software infinity+ years is longer than that version will be useful.

Re:Why, oh why... (1)

Ifni (545998) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483435)

Without copyright laws, the GPL would be unenforcible.

Without copyright laws, the GPL would be unnecessary. Without copyright laws, everything would be even more lax than BSD (which I believe still requires you to attribute your code). The purpose of the GPL is to acknowledge that because of copyright laws, a BSD style license is frequently a one way street - businesses use and enhance the software without giving anything back to the community, all the while they are able to sue if their changes to the code see unauthorized distribution. That is to say, business can have their cake and eat it too, stifling the free exchange of ideas. GPL forces companies to play fair if they decide to use the code, hence the GPP's use of the term "walled garden".

Re:Why, oh why... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27483613)

That may have been the original intent. But the GPL guarantees more freedoms than simple lack of copyright would entail.

In a world with no copyright, you may be able to copy the binary around at will but would no longer have guaranteed access to the source code in the first place, one of the key principles of free software.

Re:Why, oh why... (1)

turbidostato (878842) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483905)

"In a world with no copyright, you may be able to copy the binary around at will but would no longer have guaranteed access to the source code in the first place, one of the key principles of free software."

Laws (and contracts) are not Justice, but a means to down Justice into Real World. As such, without the laws and the mentality of copy rights, while not guaranteed to gain access to source code, your chances of not having it would be more or less the same than being suffocated by all your oxigen going out of your lungs at the same time by brownian motion.

Re:Why, oh why... (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 5 years ago | (#27487383)

The purpose of the GPL is to acknowledge that because of copyright laws, a BSD style license is frequently a one way street - businesses use and enhance the software without giving anything back to the community, all the while they are able to sue if their changes to the code see unauthorized distribution.

Why do people keep spreading this FUD? The GPL is far more one-way than the BSD License. It's designed to be. When was the last time a GPL project gave code back to a BSD project? Oh, That's right, it *can't*.

The problem is that $BIG_EVIL_CORP takes BSD code and modifies it for their use and the original project gets nothing back. So how is that any different than when one of Stallman's Faithful(TM) does the same thing?

Re:Why, oh why... (1)

zotz (3951) | more than 5 years ago | (#27487243)

"Without copyright laws, the GPL would be unenforcible. The BSD style licenses are the anti-copyright licenses. GPL uses copyright laws to have some interesting restrictions, but definitely does depend on copyright laws."

Not really. Without copyright laws, no one can take some Free code and lock it up under copyright. Why do you need the GPL or BSD exactly without copyright?

With copyright laws... We have what we have. Do your thing.

all the best,

drew

Re:Why, oh why... (2)

nobodylocalhost (1343981) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483273)

i just think the audacity of the narrator and the hypocrisy in what he's showcasing are hilarious. He was saying he doesn't support piracy in the video, but then turns around, right on the show, showing people how he could download pirated material.

Re:Why, oh why... (1)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483963)

Yeah, it's pretty jacked up. I stopped reading TFA after the quoted section in my original post.

Re:Why, oh why... (2)

kyuubi42 (1424889) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483493)

what's illegal about downloading a copy of a tv show which is broadcast (ie. one you could pick up with an antenna)? downloading a dvd rip would be one thing, but If I use my computer to record something freely available, why can't I throw it up in a torrent? I'm not going to get sued for recording on vhs and giving that tape to a few buddies.

Re:Why, oh why... (1)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483973)

You can't throw it up in a torrent because you don't have distribution rights for that material, period. As a point of fact, try doing what you described and then notifying the copyright holder of your activities. You'll find yourself in court within a week.

Re:Why, oh why... (1)

trum4n (982031) | more than 5 years ago | (#27484509)

"I'm not going to get sued for recording on vhs and giving that tape to a few buddies." It has happened before. Blame the National Football League.

Because it's LEGAL where Fon is (2, Informative)

sznupi (719324) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485637)

Fon is from Spain. And is Spain, downloading movies/music from p2p for your personal use was established to be COMPLETELLY LEGAL.

Better ask why do you have such and such legal situation at your place...

Re:Because it's LEGAL where Fon is (1)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485675)

Spain is the exception, not the rule. Better ask how the majority of the Internet population's ruling governments view such activity, especially since the device is being marketed worldwide.

Re:Why, oh why... (1)

White Yeti (927387) | more than 5 years ago | (#27488705)

...look forward to a new episode of Criminal Minds when you get home.

Maybe they meant "look forward to sexy cops jumping out of vans/bushes to smack you down and slap the cuffs on you."

Remember: To be a criminal, you don't have to think like a criminal.

Seems to Me (3, Interesting)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482743)

Fon is against the TOS of most ISPs.
Fon is illegal in many areas.
Fon isn't as nice as just running a free hotspot.
Most Fon users signed up back in the day just for the free router, which they promptly flashed with DD-WRT.
Most new Fon users will be attracted to the "Make money with Fon!" option, and WiFi WON'T be free to the masses, but only to other Fon users.

There's a reason Fon never got of the ground, and that's the simple fact that truly free WiFi is easy to come by, especially in areas likely to harbor Fon users.

Re:Seems to Me (1)

Twide (1142927) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482867)

/agreed. If you have a home DSL Service then you are probably not allowed to be sharing it out.
Most ISP's (here is AUS anyway) have in their contract some clause that prohibits this.

Re:Seems to Me (1)

fprintf (82740) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483067)

Agreed. I got a FON when they were giving them away with a commitment to run a hotspot for a while. I never got an active connection, despite keeping the heartbeat alive for months. So I flashed it to DD-WRT, eventually bricking it when I tried to use it as a client instead of a router.

Anyway, it was a cool concept and I really like the small piece of hardware. It is just unfortunate that it never took off here, I was really happy to run the router but when I saw zero connections realized I was just wasting electricity.

Re:Seems to Me (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 5 years ago | (#27484967)

Most new Fon users will be attracted to the "Make money with Fon!" option, and WiFi WON'T be free to the masses, but only to other Fon users.

Depends.

Last I checked, you had two options, a "Bill", and a "Linus" (you can guess who they're named after). Bills get paid a portion of the paid-wifi fees from people using their access. Linuses don't. However, if a Bill uses another AP on the fon network, they have to pay. Linuses don't. So it's gets paid and pay, or free and free, and you can only change your choice once, to prevent those from going on vacation switching their status from Bill to Linus, then back to Bill upon return to get free wifi.

Fon is basically a way to offer wifi access at the user level - want to run an hotspot, but not worry about the billing crap, and get the benefits of being able to use other Fon hotspots. All this without having to be a big company nor complex legal agreements to negotiate and sign over.

Re:Seems to Me (2, Insightful)

sznupi (719324) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485877)

Seems you haven't checked for a long time, Bills don't pay anymore for using For network. The status can be changed 2 times a year AFAI remember.

Re:Seems to Me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27486649)

Fon is not illegal.

And yes many ISP's forbid sharing your internet to anybody but your family... so NO your friend may not access your computer/internet connection

I only want to share with people that share as well...Join the FON cloud :-)... no Freeleechers on mine...

btw haven't you heard about people getting arrested because they used "unprotected" wifi?
it's not because someone never installed protection that you can "use" it?
people have to pay fines, go to jail if ever caught... they just caugt one in Finland :-)

Re:Seems to Me (1)

shlompo (1338043) | more than 5 years ago | (#27486679)

BT, an ISP, cooperates with Fon. That just means that it's actually their interest to get involved in the market, as it has the potential to compete with the cellular market.

As for the legal issue, it's a bit Grey, and doubtfully will stand in court. Maybe someone has examples?
Because the way I get my head around this: You can share your internet with your son, right? How about if he doesn't live with you, just came to visit? How about if it's just a visitor? Now what if that visitor stays for a few days? Or a year? (the really nasty visitor?) Can you share with someone you just made acquaintance with? So what's illegal is actually automation of this process?

Fon - A Good Idea I've Never Been Able To Use (4, Informative)

ahoehn (301327) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482773)

I think the concept of Fon is excellent. But not all that useful in practice.

I live in a fairly populated area, and there are ~7 Fon routers within a five mile radius of where I live (Go to http://maps.fon.com/ [fon.com] to check around where you live). But every single one of those hotspots is in a residential area. Which is (I think) why I've never actually seen a Fon hotspot when I've been looking for WiFi. And, in the 6 months or so that I've ran a Fon hotspot out of my home, I've had zero outside connections.

I think the key to success for Fon would be to target businesses where people are typically looking for WiFi. Coffee Shops, Hotels and the like. The way it is now, I'd have to camp out on someone's Cul-de-sac to find a Fon hotspot.

Re:Fon - A Good Idea I've Never Been Able To Use (4, Funny)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482799)

The way it is now, I'd have to camp out on someone's Cul-de-sac to find a Fon hotspot.

I was wondering why that van was always parked outside my house. Now I guess I know.

Re:Fon - A Good Idea I've Never Been Able To Use (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27483069)

I live a metro area of approximately a quarter million people and there are two Fon routers on list on their map.

Re:Fon - A Good Idea I've Never Been Able To Use (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483589)

It is new though. As more people adopt it more people will adopt it. (No that wasn't a typo). Its not like you are losing out anyways unless you live right beside a school or something. With support enough people will get it for the service to be useful.

Re:Fon - A Good Idea I've Never Been Able To Use (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27484305)

Since you have one, maybe you can explain...

How does this differ from me just keeping my access point unencrypted and available to the public? Is the only difference that Foneras get dots put on a online map somewhere?

Re:Fon - A Good Idea I've Never Been Able To Use (1)

Ambvai (1106941) | more than 5 years ago | (#27484897)

The official line is that Fonera users can connect through Fonera users' connections and that non-Fonera users can pay to use it. My unit broadcasts as two points-- a private and a public. You can set access restrictions on them as well as the amount of bandwidth that's accessible from the public connection. (Down to something like a 56k connection if I recall correctly.)

Re:Fon - A Good Idea I've Never Been Able To Use (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27486875)

no there is also a
* Coovachilli service running which will show a captive portal and ask your credentials prior to let you just "access" my ap

* there is an iptables firewall running which will only allow you to connect to my internet; but not to my internal lan

* there is logging of your connectivity to the FONservers

* There is a heartbeat to FON's servers so the map.fon.com you refer to is showing the actual status of the fonspot is showing (some only run it 8 hours a day)

* you can download the location of the fonspots to a Csv (garmin/navman) or ov2 (tomtom gps) or other kind of GPS equipment so you can stop nearby a fonspot

* there are special fontennas which you can use to project the wifi of your fonera to the park/front of your house... so people don't have to ring the doorbell :-)

* there is also WISPR compatibility...eg with special clients like devicescape, fring, handywi, SMC Skype Wifi Phones you can enter your username/password in the settings of the device/software and it will automatically switch to a fonspot when in the neighbourhood... so you have speed increase and no 3G/Gprs costs

* You can CAP the shared wifi... (the fonera has 3 type of connections: Wireless FON_Public, Wireless_MYPlace (upto WPA2/AES), LAN_MyPlace) ... you can have the speed (qos) be capped to 512kbit/s for just the FON_public; so the rest of the 54mbit can be used for MyPlace/Lan :-)

you can also compare it with COUCH SURFING

Re:Fon - A Good Idea I've Never Been Able To Use (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27486361)

That's just not true! Every location I have checked is literally covered with fon hotspots. No matter which city town or village I check there are many many hotpots - often I get the message "there are more than 200 fon hotpsots, please zoom in closer." and thats in residential areas, business areas even rural areas. Just try it for yourself.

Also, the claim that people make that its against the terms of service for Telcos is also just not true. for instance right there on that map you referenced there is a great big bloody logo for BT, which is the largest service provider in the country. Fon is offered as part of the service by the ISP!

You all speak English right? So you must be in England right?

What? You mean there are other countries in the world?!

Re:Fon - A Good Idea I've Never Been Able To Use (1)

shlompo (1338043) | more than 5 years ago | (#27486629)

You are right of course, but a bit short sighted...

Suppose you have an iPhone, with the new WiFi-only Skype application. Now you want WiFi wherever you are, even at a friends house, without configuring your device - it should connect automatically.

That's the vision: seemless connectivity everywhere.

Check out my company, at www.bzeek.com. We provide a similar solution using software only.

Re:Fon - A Good Idea I've Never Been Able To Use (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27486755)

Talk to the boss of that coffee shop?

when installing the fonspot you can [x] public hotspot and choose the icon (bar? hotel? waiting room?)

Re:Fon - A Good Idea I've Never Been Able To Use (1)

ProfMobius (1313701) | more than 5 years ago | (#27486977)

I just checked 3 areas where i'm most likely to be. In Danemark, Germany and France. All 3 three area are literally full of Fon access points. You don't have to move more than a couple hundred meters before you can find one, and this is in the smallest of the 3 towns (25000 habs).

Maybe Fon is more an European phenomena than a American one.

Dumb idea (1)

jmorris42 (1458) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482795)

It was a pretty good idea in the 'day' but in the modern era of bandwidth caps on most broadband accounts it is dumb. You are opening yourself up to an unlimited commitment to provide access to Fon users for the dubious benefit of being able to use the other access points.

Re:Dumb idea (2, Interesting)

Vectronic (1221470) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483111)

I'm sure they exists, but why not per-IP password protection, with bandwidth limitations.

Yours / Unlimited / %Password%
Friendly Neighbour / 5mb/512kb / WhozYerNabor
Public / 1mb/256kb / *

Or a limited amount of free/public ones, like 5, that all share the same allotment of 2mb/368kb or something, seems ridiculous to me why anyone would "sign up" for this, when any router can toss out free IP's if you let it, I dont see what good an account will do unless it's only for accountability which can't really exists unless you catch them in the act, or the router can keep a huge log file, then try and prove it wasn't you...

Why not create a router that has a sort of temporary/really limited connection, that allows anyone to post comments to the router or something: "hey can I use this connection?" then the host gets it, %Comment% [Allow][Disallow] from there, any regular/trusted/liked user can be granted their own account on the router. Automated messages/[non]access when your away/asleep/etc...

But Im sort of just rambling...

Re:Dumb idea (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485655)

You can set bandwith cap for public WiFi in control panel of Fonera. Without checking I believe the lowest option is 128 kbps.

Jasager (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482811)

Promising full support for networked storage, automatic downloads, sharing of a USB 3G connection, and a few other perks in addition to the normal range of functionality found in the Fonera routers this package packs quite a punch.

But will it fit inside a pineapple?

Re:Jasager (1)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482883)

That's a pretty fruity idea.

Re:Jasager (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482973)

That's a pretty fruity idea.

Maybe, but it wasn't mine [hak5.org] .

ISP ToS (5, Interesting)

Kindgott (165758) | more than 5 years ago | (#27482919)

I can't speak for anyone else, but it's against my ISP's Terms of Service to provide others with access to my internet connection.

Even if I just left my access point open, I'd be in violation.

Re:ISP ToS (2, Insightful)

papasui (567265) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483087)

Just about every ISP has wording that would make sharing the connection against the ToS. Will they ever find out, probably not unless your neighbor is the network admin. The real concern in my opinion is the responsibility you are taking allowing a complete stranger to utilize your connection. You're the subscriber, the ISP knows who YOU are. Even if you can't legally be held accountable, I'm sure you can have a good chunk of your time wasted by having to testify in court that your Wifi was being anonymously shared.

Re:ISP ToS (2, Insightful)

ion.simon.c (1183967) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485083)

The real concern in my opinion is the responsibility you are taking allowing a complete stranger to utilize your connection.

I live in the United States. I've been using my home internet connection to run a Tor exit node for... three? six? months now. I have yet to hear an official complaint from anyone.

Re:ISP ToS (2, Interesting)

artg (24127) | more than 5 years ago | (#27486353)

BT, the UK equivalent to AT&T (big ISP, major carrier) has an agreement with FON : Current BT routers have a FON-like access point and owners of FON and BT-FON routers can use each other's bandwidth. BT-FON users also get free minutes on BT's paid-for hotspots (which are in more useful places than residential areas). BT has long had a reputation for all the user-unfriendly activities of AT&T etc, but they presumably see commercial benefit in doing this - probably in both increasing their hotspot coverage and seeding popular usage of it.

Legal responsiblity (2, Interesting)

papasui (567265) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483057)

I'm interested in what the legal ramifications of 'sharing' your internet connection is when someone you share with does a questionable activity. I'm talking stuff like child pornography, online fraud, etc.

Re:Legal responsiblity (1)

dirvine (1008915) | more than 5 years ago | (#27488065)

In th UK at least the stuff being transmitted is only an alert to the police and others (I think). What happens next is your house is raided and your computer removed for investigation (probably never to be returned).

It's what is on your computer that usually the 'case' made against you, from what I can see in the press and not whats simply transmitted. I would imagine the transmission itself is not enough evidence particularly for the reasons stated in this conversation.

Unless anyone has seen different outcomes in other countries ?

Unregulated open WIFI? (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483123)

Is illegal in some areas, soon most all.

Cant risk people having anonymous access to the net can we?

More free routers? :D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27483127)

More free routers? :D

Legal ramifications? (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483131)

Does Fonera indemnify me against getting sued by the RIAA for somebody else's use of my wireless connection? 'Cause if they don't, then I see a serious downside here.

Have you checked out the video yet? (1)

Zapotek (1032314) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483179)

This guy's toast!
The MAFIAAs should be already on his ass...

Dowloading movies and OSTs of movies *just* to demonstrate Fonera's functionality?
Download a Linux distro torrent you fool!
"I'm gonna delete them after this video"...yeah right-ah!

Re:Have you checked out the video yet? (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485707)

Fon operates from Spain, where downloading movies from p2p for personal use is legal.

Re:Have you checked out the video yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27487765)

incorrect.

how is this different than using a Linksys router? (1)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483239)

You can set it to isolate wifi connections, and set no password, and you're up and running.

Old News (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27483383)

"The trick is that the router shares a part of your bandwidth on a public-facing connection. Other Fon owners can log in and use this public network for free."

Linksys has been doing this for years.

Sorry to disappoint you but Fon is a scam (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27483451)

Everyody wins? what the hell have you been smoking? FON wins. You're poor souls falling prey to a lame scam. "oh look it's cool i can access any fon AP anywhere" -yeah right, like you'll be needing or doing that often... like Fon will give you a fair share of their pie.

Payment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27483461)

I'm not sure I could participate in something like this, every ISP in the country charges per MB for broadband.

The best use of a FON is dd-wrt (2, Informative)

francium de neobie (590783) | more than 5 years ago | (#27483597)

Even in a place as dense as Hong Kong, the public FON APs are close to non-existent - even if you've found one in some shopping mall, it's usually of poor quality. They're often terribly slow and drop your connection regularly.

Now with unlimited HSDPA 3G plans being available here (I've been using one with my iPhone 3G), it's much easier to get Internet connection with your mobile phone. Previously, I've been using an old version PdaNet on my iPhone to do it. But with the 3.0 beta firmware (I'm an iPhone developer so I can get beta firmware from Apple) now I can just tether via USB. If you've got an unlimited 3G plan like me and some other 3G phone (like a Nokia), you can even do the tethering without fiddling with jailbreaking or beta firmware.

So, the only use of a FON left is to use it as a regular wifi router at home. But even for that, it's terribly insufficient - it doesn't have uPnP, DMZ or DDNS clients. So again, the only useful thing you can do with it, is to jailbreak it and install dd-wrt (or some other free router firmware) into it, so at least you get basic things like DMZ and uPnP.

You faiL iit (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27484501)

Told r3porTters, [goat.cx]

Open-mesh is much better (3, Interesting)

Artemis3 (85734) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485285)

I don't really like the fonera scheme. The only reason i even know such thing exists, is because someone brought me a device with the fon sticker on it and i started researching how to remove their customized openwrt with either true openwrt or dd-wrt, which i did successfully, and the device became a regular wifi ap.

Fonera is not even a mesh, its plain regular wifi access, for which you have to have an account with them (centralized), by means of paying a fee, or sharing your wifi. Terrible.

The hardware they use is good, strong and compact, atheros based iirc. These are the same used in the much better open-mesh [open-mesh.com] project, which is what meraki could have been before it corrupted itself into oblivion.

Open-mesh lets you mess with the hardware all you want, does not force you to authenticate to third parties, does not forbid you from modifying/installing your own software. Its the opposite of Fonera and Meraki, in the spirit of the Free Software they run things with; they just provide you the tools (hardware and software) to roll your own wifi mesh and do with it whatever you want, no third parties involved.

Re:Open-mesh is much better (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 5 years ago | (#27485731)

Though otoh Fon did get some cooperation with telcos going...I imagine it would be much harder with meshing capability.

3G connection sharing with Bzeek (1)

shlompo (1338043) | more than 5 years ago | (#27486553)

Bzeek has a feature to share your 3G connection for quite a while now.

Not "free" (1)

freechelmi (975144) | more than 5 years ago | (#27486839)

It seems to me that usually people tend to thing that the fon system if about connecting people for free to the internet. It's only a small part of the system. 99% of the foneras users will pay to access the internet and about 30% of the money will be given to the guy sharing his bandwith. So all of this is more about reselling your bandwidth than realy "sharing" it.
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