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Chimpanzees Exchange Meat For Sex

samzenpus posted more than 5 years ago | from the what-do-I-get-for-a-cheeseburger dept.

Science 313

the_therapist writes "A team from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany, studied chimps in the Tai Forest reserve in Ivory Coast and discovered that chimpanzees enter into 'deals' whereby they exchange meat for sex. Among the findings are that 'male chimps that are willing to share the proceeds of their hunting expeditions mate twice as often as their more selfish counterparts.' They also found this to be 'a long-term exchange, so males continue to share their catch with females when they are not fertile, copulating with them when they are.'"

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Same behavior in humans too (5, Insightful)

grasshoppa (657393) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512381)

We formulized it and called it marriage though.

Re:Same behavior in humans too (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512427)

Except the chimps don't seem to exhibit the signs of buyer's remorse.

-jcr (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512833)

I'm a real user, but I troll with the "Post Anonymously" ticked. I always sign my posts, though, because that's what gay niggers do!

-jcr

Re:Same behavior in humans too (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512923)

Wish there were some chimps around here...

'Got a freezer full of meat;-)

Re:Same behavior in humans too (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512597)

Wrong.

Marriage is so that human females can continue to be fed while no longer having to put out.

Re:Same behavior in humans too (-1, Flamebait)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512883)

As to the subject at matter...is this really surprising??

Quite often I've taken dates out to a nice steak dinner....and there is really only one reason to take a girl out on a date....

As for marriage...dude, you never marry them, it cost you half your shit when you want to upgrade to a newer model.

Re:Same behavior in humans too (4, Insightful)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513007)

....and there is really only one reason to take a girl out on a date....

Because otherwise it gets really boring at the restaurant waiting for your order to arrive?

Re:Same behavior in humans too (4, Insightful)

Jangchub (1139089) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512671)

+5 funny? That's robbery. +5 insightful.

Re:Same behavior in humans too (5, Insightful)

PachmanP (881352) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512701)

We formulized it and called it marriage though.

Nah men formalized it and called it prostitution. Women started thinking about how to get more and put out less and that's how we got marriage.

Re:Same behavior in humans too (5, Insightful)

Gorobei (127755) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512937)

Nah men formalized it and called it prostitution. Women started thinking about how to get more and put out less and that's how we got marriage.

Actually, it was probably the other way around: men formalized marriage in an effort to stop women sleeping around. Stability of the tribe, and all that (alpha males still get to sleep around, beta males get a better chance of their kid actually being theirs, the rest have no illusions.)

Sometimes I wish I could forget everything I've read on primate and avian mating patterns, it would make my life so much easier.

Re:Same behavior in humans too (3, Interesting)

Narpak (961733) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513213)

Perhaps they created marriage to stop the spread of STDs. Maybe, back in the days, they tried the free sex approach and discovered that syphilis and others were a bit of a bitch. A free-sex society don't work quite as well if you don't have prevention like condoms available.

Though as you mentioned, could also be that rulers insisted on monogamy from their mates to ensure that any offspring came from the right father. Always hard to confirm parentage if you don't have access to at least a basic lab.

Re:Same behavior in humans too (3, Insightful)

fractoid (1076465) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513355)

Always hard to confirm parentage if you don't have access to at least a basic lab.

Not if you trace maternal bloodlines.

Re:Same behavior in humans too (5, Interesting)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513497)

Small tribes and isolation prevented any bad repercussions for free sex.

In my 50 years of experience there are three types of women
* Those who hate sex (common and really sad- seems to last decades)
* Those who are extremely promiscuous (uncommon but more common than you think)
* Those who enjoy sex and are reasonably or totally monogamous (uncommonly for a decade, rare for a lifetime)

Based on actual experience, if you are not afraid of loss, the best partner is a couple days a week and then the rest of the time you do guy stuff. A full time wife/girlfriend can be stifling unless you make them your life. I've done it both ways multiple times. I prefer the fwb and free time. Since I have extra meat to share, it works. I've been in three ~decade long relationships and ended up gutted emotionally every time. After I quit that, I was much happier. But I do envy friends who made it work. Having a girlfriend, then wife from 16 to 26 was probably awesome and changed me since I never did the club hunting thing. But it was stupid to marry before I was on good financial footing. And once you marry/get a girlfriend, you can't do what you have to do to get set financially.

If I was religious, it would have been a lot easier. Religious girls *will* drop you after you and they are in in love-- because a) god comes first and b) "they are going to be in heaven alone for eternity while you are in hell and it makes them sad."

Worldwide (citation needed but exists), women leave men at a higher rate when the last born child reaches 5 years old. Regardless of culture, religion, or other factors. The theory was that genetically that is when the child can gather it's own food and walk around and there is something genetic about it. And that it is better to have children by multiple mates in order to maximize the odds your genes survive (for both sexes- but they use different strategies to achieve the goal-- I've read up to 10% of children's dna do not match their fathers in many areas, so that's another strategy- happened to at least one friend of mine).

The only problem is the damn legal system currently punishes men way out of proportion. I've even heard of men required to pay child support for children that were not theirs (they'd paid for a couple years and THEN found out the ex had been lying-- so do a quick paternity test when your wife asks for a divorce and save yourself some grief).

We all want to love and be loved in return-- and really, almost completely separate from that we want red hot noogie. In fact, the argument over who should take out the garbage gets in the way which is why some of the most incredible sex is with people you only see to get it on with. But (in my experience), you still have to know them well- the anonymous stuff never worked for me. Too cold.

Re:Same behavior in humans too (3, Insightful)

Gorobei (127755) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513703)

Doubtful on the STDs: most animals use the "free sex approach" with minimal effect on fertility (actually, if an STD makes individuals infertile, that encourages sex with multiple partners.) Also, small breeding populations are not much affected by STDs: everyone is exposed, virulence is low. STDs go wild once you have big cities and travel (jets, wars, or pilgrimages, etc.)

I always laugh.... (3, Interesting)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512957)

when ppl speak of women putting out so little. Back in my 20s and 30s, most of the women that I dated wanted sex every night (a couple pushed for sex 2-3x a day) and gripped that the guys that they used to date were horrible in bed. They said that they quit putting out because THEY were not getting satisfaction. It was even more so with divorced women. I suspect that more guys need to change.

Re:I always laugh.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513131)

"Back in my 20s and 30s, most of the women that I dated wanted sex every night(a couple pushed for sex 2-3x a day) and gripped that the guys that they used to date were horrible in bed."

Of course they put out when you're dating, you dumbass. And of course they're gonna tell you how great you are while everyone else is horrible.
We're talking about marriage.

Dates and girlfriends put out plenty, wives put out just enough so you don't leave. If you must have a wife, it's best to keep a girlfriend handy.

Re:I always laugh.... (4, Interesting)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513551)

A woman whose body works well (no endometriosis, abuse issues, etc.) can climax every 2 to 3 minutes for an indefinite period.
The best a man can do is either edge forever, or train themselves to climax without ejaculation (came close but never succeeded myself but some do).

One huge piece of advice... get a massage table ($300). So much better than a bed. Soooooo much better than a bed.
You can adjust the height by inches (so you hit the right spots inside her) and instead of doing push-ups (every frikkin muscle in the body except the inner ear) for an hour, you are only screwing (so mainly abs, gluts and triceps). It is marvelous for all parties concerned.

Because of our weak egos, ladies do well who push those buttons. I can see when they are pushing my buttons and it still feels good.
Ladies in their 40's who didn't have something go wrong, like sex as much or more than younger women. I was married and monogamous most of my 20's so I don't have a lot of comparison in that age. In my 30's they wanted sex but a lot seemed to be screwed up by their previous relationships. In their 40's they knew what they wanted and went for it. I wonder what the 50's and 60's will be like.

Re:Same behavior in humans too (1)

Nutria (679911) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513251)

Ain't that the frickin' truth... :(

Get down girl, go 'head get down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513317)

Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger...

Re:Same behavior in humans too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512899)

A great day for proponents of e everywhere.

Re:Same behavior in humans too (1)

fractoid (1076465) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513413)

What does 2.18 have to do with anything?

If you mean e as in MDMA then no, it has the opposite effect, makes you huggy and friendly and not at all randy.

Re:Same behavior in humans too (1)

Rei (128717) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513673)

We formulized it and called it marriage though.

Of course, if he shares his catch with another male chimpanzee instead of a female, he'll have to pay the gift tax and won't have legal recognition of their adopted young.

As we all know, the gays are going to zap us with lightning [youtube.com] . (Yes, that's a real commercial that's been airing on TV in several states)

Wow (4, Funny)

mc1138 (718275) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512383)

I need to head to the closest butchers shop!

Re:Wow (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512443)

I always thought there was something monkey-like between Sam the butcher and Alice... This just confirms it.

Re:Wow (3, Funny)

schon (31600) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512559)

I need to head to the closest butchers shop!

First, you might want to make sure that zoophilia isn't illegal in your state. :)

Re:Wow (4, Funny)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512995)

I need to head to the closest butchers shop!

Before you drop too much on premium cuts, remember the article said the ones who gave meat gifts had twice as much sex. You might want to think about how much you have now and do the math before deciding if that's worth it. ;)

Re:Wow (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513101)

Several black neighborhoods in Flint, Michigan are so blighted that the city is talking about abandoning them.

Flint is 54% black, and like other majority black cities it is synonymous with abandoned houses and astronomical crime rates.

In the nearly all black north side, property taxes collected do not even cover the cost of basic services provided. The mayor suggest that people would be asked to leave the worst areas so services could be cut off.

Youngstown, Ohio, which is 44% black and over half non-white recently paid residents as much as $50,000 to move out of some of the worst black neighborhoods, so Youngstown could shut them down.

The obvious flaw in this idea is that the same people will just destroy whatever new areas that they move into. City planners use the term safer neighborhood as a political correct synonym for whiter neighborhood. But where will these neighborhoods be two years after the new arrivals come?

Today large swaths of 82% black Detroit and 98% black East St. Louis are abandoned by their cities and city blocks have been bulldozed. These cities are rapidly shrinking in size as anyone with an ounce of ambition has fled from the crime. It is as if entire city blocks have just been vaporized.

chimpburger (1)

rookworm (822550) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512385)

MMM.... I love chimp meat.... definitely fuck someone for that!

Re:chimpburger (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512549)

I hear there is an auction of Michael Jackson's junk. Maybe if you fuck him he will let you have bubbles.

Hmm (5, Funny)

EkriirkE (1075937) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512387)

I'd rather use MY meat for sex.

Re:Hmm (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513067)

That's cool, but don't you want a partner?

Number 1 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512389)

Frist P0s+

Damn (1)

Quasar1999 (520073) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512391)

I've tried the exchange method before... the woman took my money, and gave me nothing in return... what the hell are the male chimps doing differently?

Re:Damn (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512849)

Not living in their mom's basement.

Re:Damn (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513353)

Meat, not money. Meat.

Re:Damn (2, Funny)

fractoid (1076465) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513421)

For the last time, kid, that was a charity worker not a hooker in a nurse outfit!

Obligatory (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512393)

Is that a banana in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

Humans call it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512401)

Going to a restaurant.

not suprising (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512405)

linux fags trade linux fixes to get a dick up their faggot ass.

Re:not suprising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512463)

I wish... but it seems that only hot chicks ever ask me to fix their computers *sigh*

I wonder how well this would work.... (3, Funny)

Daemonax (1204296) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512413)

There is a vegetarian girl that I'm interested in. I wonder if I'd get sex in exchange for an offering of meat?

Re:I wonder how well this would work.... (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512465)

Give her to me instead, I'm vegan but willing to offer my meat. Atleast if she looks good.

I could cook her some tofu wok with mung bean sprouts, roasted seeds and stuff like that to though ..

Excessive amounts of alcohol may work on vegans to.

Re:I wonder how well this would work.... (1)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512861)

by the time you drink the alcohol you won't be worried it was fined with isinglass?

Re:I wonder how well this would work.... (1)

Renderer of Evil (604742) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512485)

As long as the meat is made out of tofu.

In related news, PETA is taking donations to reeducate these chimps into changing their lifestyle.

Re:I wonder how well this would work.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512801)

My wife is a vegetarian. If I offer her my meat, I get sex. Does that make me less evolved?

Re:I wonder how well this would work.... (1, Troll)

McNihil (612243) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512819)

Vegetarians are not as good in bed. Remember there is always something ferocious with a chick that can down a good helping of a steak or two.

Re:I wonder how well this would work.... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512907)

You are full of shit. My ex was a veg and she was incredibly cock-hungry and would swallow and demand more; getting in bed with her is an at-your-own-risk proposition, and your dick might be too sore to stand up for days, if your balls haven't exploded from being so overworked. That kind of girl will have you making closer friends just to get a break _

Re:I wonder how well this would work.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513411)

It's a trade-off between sexual prowess and the stinkiness of the pussy.

Negroes ? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512415)

Or chimps?

Obama == Chimp monkey.

Stuff rock stars (2, Funny)

Centurix (249778) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512419)

Butchers get all the chicks.

Re:Stuff rock stars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513725)

Damn that Laser Wolf!

Similarities.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512423)

So, who here is gonna argue against THESE similarities between chimpanzees and humans?

Common ancester? That's unpossible...

NOT News . . . seen Bonobos (5, Informative)

Mr.Ziggy (536666) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512467)

This behavior has been quite well documented in bonobos, which until recently were considered chimps or dwarf chimps. I'm not sure what makes this article newsworthy, except that we all like to read about meat and sex...

Try reading a copy of "The Hunting Ape" by Stanford... It's fascinating in covering hunting and culture in apes (including trading food for sex).

From what I've read, I'd also disagree with the article that meat is so valuable to their diet. They LOVE meat, but other research suggests that the amount of energy expended on hunting compared to what they gain in protein/food is a net negative. Hunting is also high risk and includes getting injured in the process.

Re:NOT News . . . seen Bonobos (2, Interesting)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512561)

This behavior has been quite well documented in bonobos, which until recently were considered chimps or dwarf chimps. I'm not sure what makes this article newsworthy, except that we all like to read about meat and sex...

What makes it newsworthy is that despite what they used to be called, a Bonobo or Pigmy Chimpanzee is not a Common Chimpanzee. The article only says "chimpanzee" but quotes from scientists using the same term makes it obvious they're using the common name for common chimpanzee otherwise they'd specify.

The part where the male gives the female meat but doesn't have sex until later (yet still averages twice as much sex as selfish males) sounds interesting, and maybe is news for a zoologist too, but I don't know.

Re:NOT News . . . seen Bonobos (4, Interesting)

khallow (566160) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512743)

From what I've read, I'd also disagree with the article that meat is so valuable to their diet. They LOVE meat, but other research suggests that the amount of energy expended on hunting compared to what they gain in protein/food is a net negative. Hunting is also high risk and includes getting injured in the process.

If they're using meat as a currency for reproduction, then it becomes a very valuable part of the diet. And supplying meat sounds just like the typical display of fitness ritual common to many animals' reproductive behavior.

Re:NOT News . . . seen Bonobos (1)

fractoid (1076465) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513467)

It's like that story a while back about monkeys getting more play when they steal pumpkins from a farm than when they get the exact same pumpkins from wild plants. It's the display of prowess that pulls the chicks, not just the food.

First you get da powah, DEN you get da money.

Re:NOT News . . . seen Bonobos (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513077)

Chimps are quite close. Frankly, humans should be called "pans" rather than "homo" due to the similarity.

I thought sex WAS the exchange of meat... (5, Funny)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512487)

...at a high rate of give and take.

Bonobos (5, Interesting)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512493)

I can believe this is a new discovery for the Common Chimpanzee. But for their close relatives the Bonobos, I saw documentaries decades ago showing not just the long term pair-bonding/mating-behavior related food-giving described in TFA, but outright prostitution. As in a male chimp comes up to a female with a banana in his hand, kinda tugs on her, she reacts neutrally, he hands her the banana and tugs again, they go off and have sex. And lest you hold on to the notion that this was still mating-related behavior, the sex in question was oral.

Ah, Bonobos [wikipedia.org] . Gotta love those crazy nympho primates. I could be wrong but I think the Common Chimp is closer to us genetically, but I think the Bonobo is closer to us psychologically. I was going to say socially, but I don't know many human societies where genital rubbing is used as a greeting or where orgies break out whenever they acquire food.

Re:Bonobos (5, Funny)

suricatta (617778) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512639)

If you ever find such a human society, can you let us know? Thanks.

Re:Bonobos (2, Funny)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512749)

If you ever find such a human society, can you let us know? Thanks.

If websites that require a credit card don't count, then I'm still looking my friend. Still looking.

Re:Bonobos (1)

Mistlefoot (636417) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512773)

I doubt this is new at all. Maybe a new discovery. Basically, lazy chimps, or (weak chimps) that cannot acquire more food then they need get laid less often then hard working chimps (or strong chimps), that easily get more food then they need. Isn't this what evolution is based upon? The strong get laid, procreate and the weak don't get laid and don't procreate?

Re:Bonobos (2, Interesting)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512951)

I doubt this is new at all. Maybe a new discovery.

Um well yeah, obviously it's news in the sense of us discovering it, not that chimps suddenly started doing it.

Isn't this what evolution is based upon? The strong get laid, procreate and the weak don't get laid and don't procreate?

Sure, but not every animal or mammal for that matter used food gifts to express that strength to a mate, and we didn't know chimpanzees did, as tfa says. And it isn't necessarily the case that the ones that share are getting more meat, they might just be more generous. Not necessarily a bad trait for females to select for! Though sexual selection throws a weird kink (giggity) in the basic "survival of the fittest"... Sometimes it seems more like a female thinks "gee if you can survive like that, you must be healthy!" like in for example peacocks. :P

Re:Bonobos (5, Interesting)

yali (209015) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513133)

male chimp comes up to a female with a banana in his hand, kinda tugs on her, she reacts neutrally, he hands her the banana and tugs again, they go off and have sex.

Part of what's new about this finding is that the chimpanzees are engaging in a long-term exchange, not just an instantaneous trade like in your bonobo example. The male chimp gives the female some meat now, and at some point later in time she mates with him.

This is interesting because the ability to engage in long-term exchanges requires some pretty sophisticated cognitive machinery that isn't necessary for an instantaneous trade. You have to keep track of who you have active deals with and what the running balance is, and you have to be sensitive to cheaters (and have an effective response, like ostracizing them) lest you get exploited. Evolutionary psychologists think that humans have special cognitive adaptations [ucsb.edu] to help us manage long-term exchanges. This study appears to present evidence of similar abilities in other primates.

Re:Bonobos (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513217)

Who needs evolution?

Ah, Bonobos [wikipedia.org]. Gotta love those crazy nympho primates. I could be wrong but I think the Common Chimp is closer to us genetically, but I think the Bonobo is closer to us psychologically. I was going to say socially, but I don't know many human societies where genital rubbing is used as a greeting or where orgies break out whenever they acquire food.

  I know a lot of humans who wouldn't mind being short and hairy all over to get into a society like that!

This is NOT NEWS! (0)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512511)

A similar study found chimpanzees trading food for sex clear back when I was a teenager. This is about 20 years late to be "news".

Oldest profession? (3, Insightful)

Anenome (1250374) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512533)

Damn, we call it the 'oldest profession' and had no idea just how far back it went :P

And (3, Funny)

shellster_dude (1261444) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512545)

All the hottest chimps get fat. Seems like a bad system to me.

Re:And (1)

PFritz21 (766949) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512737)

They're eating proteins, not carbs...

Not really. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513303)

Sex is good exercise. Though, being a slashdotter, you might not know that.

Cheese Burgers are better...maybe. (1)

Shard.Oglass666 (1507693) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512569)

Even Ford Fairlaine intuitivley must have known, when he promissed to slam a cheese buger down his girls throat.

Bubbles (1)

qpawn (1507885) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512583)

I always wondered why Michael Jackson had daily deliveries from the butcher.

Great Headline! (1)

ChengWah (955139) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512591)

I mean, that's how it's done, right?

Plank institute? (2, Interesting)

CorvisRex (1266594) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512595)

Begin Rhetorical Question>> The thing that confuses me... the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology? Evolutionary Anthropology would be pretty low on my list if I was going to list things associated with Max Plank. Why on earth did they name an Anthropology Institute after a Theoretical Physicist? Don't get me wrong, Plank is one of the great names in physics, and one of the most brilliant men to have lived in the 20th Century... but Anthropology?!? Is there some connection between evolution and Quantumn Mechanics I seem to have missed in all those years in College? End Rhetorical Question

Re:Plank institute? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512677)

It's named after Max Planck the porn star.

Re:Plank institute? (1)

blueg3 (192743) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513527)

Germany has quite a lot of Max-Planck Institutes. Name association.

I at least got to work at a particle-physics Max Planck Institute, so it was appropriately named.

Max Planck Institute Nerds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512725)

I too was once a hardcore geek, intensely focused on the science and methodology of getting a girl to go out with me to the exclusion of all other thought, so I can relate. The nerds at the Max Planck Institute have my total sympathy and I know what they're going through and why they are unable to focus on the particle physics stuff in favor of this stuff.

They just need to relax and be themselves, actually ask a few girls out (shower and brush teeth first, obviously) and realize that it's not the end of the world if the first dozen or so say no. The joy of a fantastic newfound experience will happen eventually guys, just hang in there!

ask mrs obama (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512777)

she knows what a monkey does for sex. she has two kids.

Monkey Business (2, Funny)

Rollgunner (630808) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512787)

I always wondered where that phrase came from...

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512789)

Sex, now there's something Slashdotters don't know about.

So, what your are saying is that... (1)

Extremus (1043274) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512797)

... chimpanzees exchange meat for meat?

They just have to very careful (4, Funny)

memorycardfull (1187485) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512815)

about exactly how they word their craigslist ad when they do it.

Isn't this survival of the fittest? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27512859)

It seems an objective way to see if a potential mate has the capability of bringing home the bacon (sorry for the pun), thereby being a good indicator on whether the male could provide for a family that would result from copulation (unless they have safe sex ;) ).
If the male chimp doesn't have enough to share, he isn't probably very good at getting food - and you wouldn't want to propagate those genes. Did they check whether the chimps that shared the most also gathered the most?
So why is it being made to sound like prostitution, when it clearly is more like survival of the fittest - the female bangs the best male?

We're much better than that (1)

Deadstick (535032) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512871)

...we throw in some flowers. Maybe a show.

rj

It's just chimp's equivalent of dating (1)

thenewguy001 (1290738) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512889)

Sometimes you go on a date, pay for an expensive meal, and the chicks put out. Sometimes they don't. Looks like it works the same in the chimp world.

It's hard out here for a Chimp! (2, Funny)

Essef (12025) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512909)

... with apologies to Hustle and Flow.

Let me guess... (2, Funny)

hyades1 (1149581) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512941)

...Vegans exchange cucumbers and cheese tacos.

Re:Let me guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513665)

Vegans don't eat cheese, meathead.

Not new (5, Interesting)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512955)

There was an article some years ago about monkeys (not sure if chimpanzees or not) being trained to use money.

Researchers taught them that discs of metal could be exchanged for food and such things. They got all sorts of interesting behaviors out of it, including the monkeys attempting to fake the money.

One uncomfortable discovery was discovering that some of them were actually using that money to pay for sex.

This seems even better than this one. Food for sex is a straightforward exchange. Tokens that can be used to obtain food for sex is more complicated, and shows a deeper understanding.

Re:Not new (1)

fractoid (1076465) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513505)

Interesting, I'll have to try and find said article.

This new stuff, though, is also showing that they're willing to give food NOW if they know they'll get sex LATER. Combine the two and you get the head chimp paying a salary to his "secretary" chimps so he can bone them when they go on heat.

Re:Not new (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513733)

Yep. Capuchin monkeys were observed paying for sex:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/05/magazine/05FREAK.html

My conclusion: (1)

terbo (307578) | more than 5 years ago | (#27512999)

Our behaviors aren't really all that advanced, as humans, and
in order for us to get much further we are going to have to
acknowledge that, instead of build bigger and better in order
to please some part of ourselves that is afraid to grow..

Re:My conclusion: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513109)

You can start by not hitting the 'enter' button prematurely.

Interesting... (1)

Mish (50810) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513207)

I'm having a BBQ next weekend, what kinds of meat are they offering?

For human males, the key is to avoid Marriage trap (3, Funny)

echtertyp (1094605) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513267)

The BBC article is mostly interesting for how closely chimp behavior is to human behavior--who knew chimps were so much like us, socially?

For us humans, the key thing (at least for males) is to avoid the marriage trap. Outside of marriage, the resources-for-nookie exchange holds true at market rates. Imbalances are corrected by the laws of microeconomics.

But once locked in a marriage contract, a human male MUST provide resources under penalty of law, while the female is not obligated to do...anything. The predictable result is the epidemic of sexless marriages in the U.S. and other developed countries.

So, just beware the marriage trap. It's like signing an oil futures contract where you're required to deliver oil at $12 a barrel, indefinitely. You'd be a fool to sign either a $12/bbl oil contract, or a marriage contract.

Re:For human males, the key is to avoid Marriage t (2, Interesting)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513591)

Having a good marriage is probably 25% likely.

But here's the problem....
Hubby or Wife asks spouse for sex and is rejected. Ego hit. And unavoidable.
Enough ego hits, and you just don't WANT to risk another rejection. Deadly Embrace condition.

Meanwhile, the guy or lady you see on the sly only at lunchtime on thursdays is there for *one* thing. If you are not feeling well, you cancel it in advance and no rejection. That sex is *incredible* over a long enough period. No rejections, no ego damage to your sex drive. And then the idiots split up with their spouse and go into a "real" relationship with their sex partner and over 75% are split up within 12 months.

Sometimes I think we should marry our spouse and then we and our spouse find other sex partners. Maybe not the first child bearing marriage but any second or third marriages.

Women and men lose their sex drives for a particular person (re: Calvin Coolidge's famous rooster discussion with his wife).

However- if you are a man and lost your sex drive big time- GET YOUR HORMONES checked. A lot of men find they are down in the 200's to 300's and should be in the 500's . As a testicular cancer survivor (16 years! Woo woo! would have been dead 2 years earlier because no cure), this hit me when I was 43. I got treated and turned back the clock to like I was a mid 30 year old again.

Maybe it's not an EXCHANGE (5, Interesting)

Chienne Folle (1526929) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513291)

I find it interesting that the author of the BBC article is assuming that the male chimps are trading meat for sex. The original article goes on to state that female chimps don't hunt, so they can't obtain meat on their own. When the male chimps donate meat to the female chimps, they don't just get more sex, they also increase the chances that the female chimp will take in enough protein and calories to bear a healthy baby.

Humans look at the male chimp's giving the female chimp meat as "trading" meat for sex, but there are a lot of other constructions that could be put on that behavior. He could just as easily be trying to assure that his offspring will be healthy. Or trying to assure the health and well-being of a female that he's come to care about.

The original article says that people had tried to find meat-for-sex exchanges in chimps before and failed, because they didn't give the animals enough credit for long-term planning. They looked to see if Chimp A gave meat to Chimp B, then had sex with her two minutes later, and they didn't find that. The current researchers succeeded because they took a longer-term view and counted meat-giving and sexual activity over time. But it's possible that they're still not giving the animals enough credit -- what if the meat-giving isn't trading meat for sex but is something else entirely?

Observations of primate behavior will never tell us anything until we learn to just report what we see the animals doing, then think of every plausible reason why they might be doing that, rather than assuming that the animals aren't capable of doing what we do.

Re:Maybe it's not an EXCHANGE (1)

Rakshasa Taisab (244699) | more than 5 years ago | (#27513731)

Ahh... yes. And the reason that guy is taking you out to dinner is because he's interested in the long-term survivability of your (future) offspring.

Chilled monkey brains! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27513529)

"Ah dessert! Chilled monkey brains!"

(Because, after all, anything that thinks about sex so much must be delicious!)

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