Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Sweden Sees Boom In Legal Downloading

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the encouraging-them dept.

The Internet 121

Quantos writes with word that in Sweden, in addition to a drop in traffic following the introduction of the IPRED anti-file sharing law, the country also saw a doubling of legal downloads. "The sale of music via the Internet and mobile phones has increased by 100 percent since the Swedish anti-file sharing IPRED law entered into force last week, according to digital content provider InProdicon. '...I don't know if this is only because of IPRED, but it is definitely a sign of a major change,' said managing director Klas Brännström. InProdicon provides half of the downloaded tunes in Sweden via several online and mobile music services." Meanwhile The Pirate Bay's anticipated VPN service has seen over 113,000 requests for beta invitations since late last month; 80% are from Sweden. Traffic numbers may begin to rise again once the service goes live.

cancel ×

121 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

WIll it last? (2, Interesting)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546287)

I give it six months. All it needs is some "anonymizing" P2P network to appear and it will go all the way back down the big snake to square 1.

Re:WIll it last? (2, Informative)

Quothz (683368) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546309)

All it needs is some "anonymizing" P2P network to appear

Like the one mentioned in the summary, you mean?

The VpN (4, Interesting)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546517)

The VPN mentioned is kinda bizarre if you think about it.

First, the whole strength of bit-torrent is scalability through it's use of edge connections avoiding a central hub.

VPN would necessarily be through a central hub and thus not direct peer to peer.

I suppose perhaps they are thinking that the p2p would continue outside the VPN but the low bandwidth tracker and maybe some of he handshaking would be contacted via VPN?

It's not dead obvious what is meant since it is often the case that when a user invokes a VPN, the the OS's entire network adapter switches over to the Vitrual one and the physical one is not used except to transact the VPN connection. (hence making the VPN transparent to the client browsers and such)

On the flip side, this would be a very special VPN nexus not just a general purpose one: namely if you ran all the p2p traffic through it then nearly all the requests would be for packets that had already passed through the nexus earlier. So hanging a cache off the nexus would make things simpler. It would no longer be p2p at all but rather a clearing house for packets of common interest.

Re:The VpN (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27546753)

In my experience, from watching the projects of TPB, and trying to use the PRQ services, they are pretty stupid. They lucked out with their main project becoming popular and giving them name recognition, then they boosted that with how they condescendingly treat lawyers.

But from a hardcore geek level, they don't seem to know what they're doing. They're like those anarchist warez kids everyone knows, who know enough to land jobs in datacenters or big companies, but still seem to have some stunted development keeping them at a teenaged level.

I'd never trust their "anonymous" services. They've made obvious security mistakes that I had no trouble finding, making me doubt everything they do. If you're finding faults in their VPN idea, you probably have the skill to find them everywhere else if you took a look at how they do other things.

Stick with people who know what they're doing, like Tor developers. Help find better ways, because it's unlikely the TPB will ever offer anything truly worthwhile.

Re:The VpN (2, Informative)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547237)

On the flip side, this would be a very special VPN nexus not just a general purpose one: namely if you ran all the p2p traffic through it then nearly all the requests would be for packets that had already passed through the nexus earlier. So hanging a cache off the nexus would make things simpler. It would no longer be p2p at all but rather a clearing house for packets of common interest.

Yes, we could call the duration these packets that are kept for retention, and to not have so much interational traffic we could have several servers. To ensure competition we could even have feeds between these servers so you could pick your provider. Rather than torrent you could post files to this nexus, except for some reason the extension nzb comes to mind rather than torrent. What you're looking for has been done and much, much better as long as you're willing to pay for a server. All that's needed is a good client to automate all the WTFs of uuencode/yenc/multiparts/pars/split rars and it's essentially the same.

It would be interesting if you could seamlessly integrate usenet (the 1980s called, the secret is out) into a swarm though. Like, the first usenet-enabled client would check for the file parts on usenet and if they don't exist just post them to alt.binaries.torrent-parts, enabling all other usenet-enabled clients to download it from there instead of P2P. I don't think the message ids and NNTP protocol makes that possible though, you'd need some kind of content-based hash/query system.

Re:The VpN (3, Insightful)

slash.duncan (1103465) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547657)

Being a consistent USENET user since I discovered it, I find your idea fascinating. To this day I don't get what the big deal is with bittorrent as opposed to USENET, especially with yEnc on binaries so the encoding overhead is relatively low.

As for the message-id/nntp issues, that's reasonably easily solved. One could hash the torrent title (or tracker URL) into the subject header, with a block sequence number replacing the M/N series number. That would put the relevant data all in the overview so a client wouldn't have to pull more than that to see what was available. (Users could still track poster reputation that way. An alternative would replace a portion of the author header as well, but that would make it harder to track poster reputation.)

The biggest problems I see would be two, USENET is obscure enough it might be a hard feature to explain and to explain how to configure for one's USENET provider, and depending on how it was introduced and what sort of standard was agreed (or not), there could be conflicting implementations.

Also, given the amount of data involved, there'd certainly need to be a whole hierarchy, alt.binaries.torrent-parts.*, perhaps organized by tracker host, with a misc-tracker hierarchy for the little ones, then by genre, or maybe more generically by first letter or two of the torrent title (with or without tracker host).

But OTOH, part of the appeal of USENET is its relative obscurity, in part due to the relative technical literacy one must have to make it work at any decent level of efficiency. Think the general idea of Eternal September and etc tho if someone's open enough to learning netiquette and can RTFM and FAQ if pointed at them, glad to have 'em. Making USENET an extension of a very popular P2P protocol would NOT do anything to keep it that way.

The Server. (2, Insightful)

Ostracus (1354233) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547689)

"Being a consistent USENET user since I discovered it, I find your idea fascinating. To this day I don't get what the big deal is with bittorrent as opposed to USENET, especially with yEnc on binaries so the encoding overhead is relatively low."

Well there's ONE difference between Usenet and BT. BT is relatively free while with the dropping of Usenet from ISPs selection, most have to purchase an account from an independent. Considering the download demographic I can see why free would take precedence.

Re:The VpN (1)

Fweeky (41046) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548823)

I don't think the message ids and NNTP protocol makes that possible though, you'd need some kind of content-based hash/query system.

Message-ID's are controlled by the poster, you could embed content hashes in them quite easily; you'd just need to know any other parts of the field, which can either be fixed (content hashes should provide enough uniqueness), or detected by parsing a NZB with appropriately tagged segments. e.g:

Message-ID: <sha1-9c39cd34aa9f25e4e788479fb7c68dbd3118d7cb.256000+256000@bt.swarmable>

In a NZB, this is just another segment, and it could be posted exactly as existing posts are; a torrent client, wanting data with that SHA1 hash (and a probably unnecessary byte offset and length) could request that article without knowing anything else about it (other than maybe needing to know what group it's in for some NSP's; easily solved by crossposting to, say, alt.binaries.torrentable).

The main requirement would be that the torrent client and usenet post both use the same block size.

Re:The VpN (1)

the_one(2) (1117139) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547289)

Why does it have to be about bittorrent? Couldn't their VPN service simply be about providing anonymity and making money?

Re:The VpN (0, Redundant)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547667)

Sweden has just passed an anti file sharing law called IPRED which allows courts to order ISPs to hand over information about who was using a particular IP address at a particular time. The VPN service is called IPREDator and is designed so that it is impossible for the Pirate Bay to do this.

Re:The VpN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548573)

Your answer lacks of logic. Since when TPB is an ISP?

Re:The VpN (1)

KeX3 (963046) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547467)

A couple of years ago i sketched out something like this for a project at work.
It was with a known cloud of clients though, so security could easily be beefed out with no concerns to "compatiblity" on the client side.

Basically, a big ol tracker running in position X.
A number of headless clients connected to storage systems, spread across the world, potentially divided into a hierarchy based on connectivity.
Each client uses a unique key-pair to communicate with the tracker (phase 1 of security, for a 3rd party it'd be a bitch to sniff, not even another client could sniff and make sense of any of the data related to the first client).

In client communications, a random (weaker) cipher is used, to obscure the data transfer slightly more.

So basically, heavily encrypted tracker communication, weaker encrypted client communication.
All client->client communication apart from the actual data channel also went via the tracker in question, so the only client->client happenings would be a port opening on client A and a connection request from client B, handshake and then the data transfer.

At the time of new files, a "Hello. Wake up now omgplz"-kind of request would be made available to the clients, starting with the innermost ones first (to facilitate a relatively speedy distribution of the files across the entire network, while attempting to not completely clog the intarweb tube of the "master client"), and when deemed appropriate (x% completion among y% of tier-z clients), move on to tier-(z+1).

This, of course, won't scale to something the size of pirate bay without some serious hardware from the future, but i find it an interesting sidetracking :p

Re:The VpN (0)

X.25 (255792) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547915)

The VPN mentioned is kinda bizarre if you think about it.

It's bizzare that you have no idea what the purpose of VPN is (in this case).

RIAA/MPAA will be sending notices to owners of IP ranges like 192.168.0.0/16, 10.0.0.0/8, 172.18.16.0/12.

Re:The VpN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548685)

It's not dead obvious what is meant since it is often the case that when a user invokes a VPN, the the OS's entire network adapter switches over to the Vitrual one and the physical one is not used except to transact the VPN connection. (hence making the VPN transparent to the client browsers and such)

Duh ... OSes don't have "entire network adapters", on the other hand, IP stacks have default routes.

Re:WIll it last? (4, Insightful)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546525)

It's still in the process of appearing, but yes. That one or something similar.

In a technology war, the P2P users will always win. The only way to stop it is a law so draconian in scope that the whole Internet would collapse from fear of connecting to it.

Re:WIll it last? (2, Insightful)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547541)

I hope so. It seems that internet usage is quite huge even in countries with draconian laws. China, muslim countries, ... all have draconian laws, all have large internet usage.

So I hope you're right. I think, however, that you're not.

And if such a law (one that lowers traffic) were passed in the US, it would pose a problem for much of the world.

Doesn't matter (4, Funny)

symbolset (646467) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546543)

They just gave the ??AA a budget for their lobbyists of "more is better". They've killed the Internet.

There's no way that group wouldn't neuter the Bill of Rights for that kind of money, and there's no way our elected representatives won't sell out. It's over. It's been nice knowing y'all.

In five years let's get together on I2:The guerrilla mesh WWAN.

Re:Doesn't matter (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547009)

What about the ISP rebellion?

What will happen when nobody needs bandwidth any more and people can pay small ISPs $10 a month instead of paying the big ISP's $50?

You are on the way to destruction. (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547043)

You have no chance to survive make your time.

Re:Doesn't matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547631)

They just gave the ??AA a budget for their lobbyists of "more is better". They've killed the Internet.

There's no way that group wouldn't neuter the Bill of Rights for that kind of money, and there's no way our elected representatives won't sell out. It's over. It's been nice knowing y'all.

In five years let's get together on I2:The guerrilla mesh WWAN.

yeah right, in a few days the REAL stats will come out, and we'll find out this is a lot of BS.

Re:WIll it last? (2, Informative)

rrohbeck (944847) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546931)

All it needs is some "anonymizing" P2P network to appear and it will go all the way back down the big snake to square 1.

I2P [i2p2.de] with I2PSnark (built in.) Fully anonymous, encrypted Bittorrent with acceptable performance.

Re:WIll it last? (1)

Fluffy Bunnies (1055208) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547031)

There are some that are widely used in Japan. Might be pretty cool if Perfect Dark went "mainstream" in Europe as well.

Re:WIll it last? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547123)

English was added for that reason. It is good for unity to get more users.

You need minimum 40GB free for " unity " (distributed data store) and minimum 100KB/sec upload to use " perfect dark " network.

Many European and American connections do not have enough upload. Please do not try if you do not.

The network design works but needs improvement. Research is now under way for new much faster network structure.

Re:WIll it last? (1)

impaledsunset (1337701) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547271)

It might not last, but it shows that the scare tactics are working to a certain extent, and gives the recording industry more incentive to use them, not to mention that it enables them to get more support for similar legislation.

Re:WIll it last? (1)

lixee (863589) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547531)

The number of i2p routers boomed since the introduction of IPRED. You need to be on the i2p network to view the stats link though.

http://stats.i2p/cgi-bin/total_routers_month.cgi [stats.i2p]

Doubling... I guess (5, Funny)

retech (1228598) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546305)

While going from 18 to 36 legal sales is technically a doubling... I'm not sure I'd call it a boon.

Re:Doubling... I guess (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547283)

Parent should be modded insightful, not funny.

So its back to the cd days (0)

future assassin (639396) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546339)

You couldn't really listen to the music and were forced to buy the cd so now instead of being able to download, listen and then reject all the crap people are now forced to download/buy crap.

Re:So its back to the cd days (3, Insightful)

theheadlessrabbit (1022587) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546611)

So its back to the CD days. You couldn't really listen to the music and were forced to buy the cd so now instead of being able to download, listen and then reject all the crap people are now forced to download/buy crap.

It's not my intention to troll, but this is a little sensationalist.
Many bands will allow you to listen to their entire album before purchase via free streaming.
It's inconvenient, the quality ranges from poor to mediocre, but it does address the 'try before you buy' concern. Saying that we are now forced to buy our music before listening to it is false.

Re:So its back to the cd days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27546907)

Many bands

There you go. Get back to me when that reads "all bands."

Re:So its back to the cd days (2, Insightful)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547181)

Don't forget most places that sell CDs do let you listen to them. Even Wal-Mart has/had those preview machines that let you listen to stuff. Proper run music shops will normally let you listen to quite big chunks of the CD if you ask.

Some people are just cheap and don't want to pay because the option to preview has been there for ages. If you need to listen to every single second of the CD then there is something wrong with you.

So stand in the shop for 10 hours (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547463)

and you'll hear 12 CDs.

Re:So its back to the cd days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547509)

Yeah sure, because once you've physically moved to the music store the chance of you actually buying something to justify your travel is pretty high, depending on how far you've had to come.

Re:So its back to the cd days (1)

slash.duncan (1103465) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547751)

Well, the problem of a listening booth from the perspective of someone trying to sell the music, besides the "if you travel to the store, you're probably already going to buy something" bit mentioned by an AC, which in the context of trying to sell means you still have to get them to the store, is that the listening once or twice is just that, listening once or twice -- it doesn't let you get /addicted/ to it.

Now what I do most of the time is listen to shoutcast streams, but this would go for the radio (too many programmable zombie targeted ads, content generally to broad and/or bland) or P2P/USENET/Web downloading (too troublesome when I can get exactly what I'm in the mood for off a dozen shoutcast channels) too. After I've heard a song a few times, I may decide I like even more than the usual channel content -- and want more from that (group of) artist(s).

With shoutcast metadata streams too, it's easy enough to note the artist, album, etc, and watch for more. The next (intermediate) step would be actively searching out more, P2P, web, streamripper-and-filesearch. The final step is finding it actually interesting enough to buy the whole album or often whole series of albums of. That can mean checking at the store next time you're in, or buying online.

The problem with listening stations is that it doesn't allow that interest build-up to the point I'm willing to go to the trouble to find and then pay the money to buy the album, or often, entire series of albums. I'm not going to spend hours in the listening booth, doing JUST that, but if I have the songs available to listen to at my leisure, while I'm doing my Gentoo updates, reading /., playing a game, working around the house or in the car on the way to work (or /at/ work, for the lucky ones), I AM going to find some of them "addictive" enough to buy, and from experience, when I do, it's often NOT just a single album.

Of course, that's the whole P2P/streaming users buy MORE music, not less, phenomenon so often mentioned 'round these parts.

Re:So its back to the cd days (2, Insightful)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548127)

I do believe serious music fans do buy more music from downloading. The problem is that there are a lot of people that don't. A lot of chavs and barely literate people who are just getting into computing see the internet as a way to save money not expand their musical tastes.

Mind you that doesn't mean I believe the RIAA should keep pushing to sue people. They do need to focus on more options but we shouldn't pretend that downloading the music is the only way to sample it. We need to keep most people out of file sharing before they ruin it like newsgroups.

That is why I think something like Spotify is excellent as you get to listen to what you want when you want with the odd few ads thrown in after songs which I'm happy with and I can buy tracks from within Spotify if I want to.

I actually use it a lot, not so much because of the cost but because you install it anywhere and have access to all your playlists.

Re:So its back to the cd days (2, Interesting)

impaledsunset (1337701) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547475)

Um, no. What you claim is wrong.

Many bands do, but most don't. You could have said that many bands release free as in speech and as in beer music, too. Most of those that I like, however, don't.

As, unfortunately, musical tastes don't work like software, nobody chooses the music they like based on the respect they get from the artist and/or distributor. So most people can't "try before buy" unless they change or limit their musical tastes. And this doesn't sound reasonable to me.

Re:So its back to the cd days (1)

Yetihehe (971185) | more than 5 years ago | (#27549129)

There is an answer to this: lots of free music in one place. I didn't change my listening preferences, but I don't listen to buyed music anymore, I only use Jamendo [jamendo.com] now. Sometimes I still pay artists on jamendo, if I find really good music.

Re:So its back to the cd days (1)

Celc (1471887) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548353)

Saying we are not is a logical fallacy as many != all.

Re:So its back to the cd days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547047)

You couldn't really listen to the music and were forced to buy the cd so now instead of being able to download, listen and then reject all the crap people are now forced to download/buy crap.

I call BS.
I doubt it if even so much as one percent of all people here ever buy anything after they decide they like it.
People here at /. try to appear as though they are all about freedom and such, but it all boils down to one thing: they want their music, software & video for free. And if any corporation so much as dares to try to protect its stuff, it is mocked.
I am not in favor of the ridiculous measurements the **AA take, they are just as extreme as people here.

Re:So its back to the cd days (1)

bemymonkey (1244086) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547163)

"I doubt it if even so much as one percent of all people here ever buy anything after they decide they like it."

I actually know a few people who do (including myself), when they have cash to spare - at least when it comes to music. People with low income like us students aren't going to be buying a DVD of every movie we want to see, but 99ct for a song or 7-10 Euros for an album that we can stream online is quite acceptable.

Re:So its back to the cd days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547189)

People with low income like us students aren't going to be buying a DVD of every movie we want to see

In my days as a student this simply meant that I was not able to see that movie just yet. It's this difference in mindset I referred to in your parent-post.

Re:So its back to the cd days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547581)

It costs about 10 Euros to buy two DVD:s in any given store in Sweden. Sure, it is not the newest movies, but there are plenty who are not older than 2 years.

If you go up to 10 Euros per DVD, there is a very high amount of films to chose from.

The price of movies are not that high, you can wait a year or two to watch the movies. That's what I had to do as a kid.

I would say that movie prices are quite acceptable.

Re:So its back to the cd days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547683)

99ct for a song or 7-10 Euros for an album that we can stream online is quite acceptable

Not even close. 7-10 Euros; is generally more expensive than physical CD that are bought through Amazon. No filthy compression, nice artworks, and a rather clean master, from where you can rip in the format you want.

And you think paying about the same amount for mp3 crap, without artworks, nor clean tagging, and even massively with DRMs until recently, is reasonable?

What a joke. I certainly wouldn't pay more than 0,50 Euros for such a whole album. Any cent more is nothing else than a rip-off.

Re:So its back to the cd days (1)

bemymonkey (1244086) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548045)

This may be true for some albums, but most are cheaper in a DRM-free downloadable format.

For instance:

Muse - Black Holes & Hurricanes. Almost 15 Euros on Amazon.de, 10 Euros at 7Digital.de.

The older Muse albums are 7,50 on 7Digital.de and 8 Euros on Amazon.de. Sure, they're not that much cheaper, but not more expensive either. The tagging on 7Digital.de is good, and the album art (embedded in tags) is 800x800. Okay, lossless would be nice, but hey, I guess you can't have everything ;)...

Also, you're forgetting that most online sales are of single songs. If you only want one song off of a CD, you're probably better off getting it on iTunes or something similar than shelling out 7+ Euros for the CD...

I'm crushed (4, Funny)

NotQuiteReal (608241) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546341)

Here, we are led to believe that Swedes are naturally a bunch of thieving leeches, only cowed by John Law.

I always thought they were all giant blond buxom women who gave excellent massages.

I am so disappointed.

Troll! (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27546363)

Just because there are more people in Los Angeles county than the entire country of Sweden, don't think you'll get away with this blatant troll.

Wait a minute... aren't Trolls from Sweden? D'oh!

+1, Troll (3, Funny)

SEWilco (27983) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546467)

Parent should be modded +1, Troll, but there seems to be some difficulty with that.

Re:+1, Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27546523)

Done.

Re:I'm crushed (2, Funny)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546475)

Does it really matters if you get the massage from a blond buxom woman or a red bearded sweaty pirate?

Re:I'm crushed (4, Funny)

supernova_hq (1014429) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546751)

Depends if you're face up or face down.

Re:I'm crushed (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547699)

Let us just take the better of both worlds: what about a massage from a redhead buxom sweaty pirate woman?

Re:I'm crushed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547019)

Half of them are actually giant blond buxom men. :P

Re:I'm crushed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547317)

I always thought they were all giant blond buxom women who gave excellent massages.

More then half of us are giant blond buxom men, but we still give excellent massages.

Jokes aside, the blond thing is kind of a myth, although we have more blonds then most other European countries, many Swedes are not blonds and not blue eyed. It's true that we are giants, at least in most parts of Sweden, compared to people on mainland Europe and the British Islands. But from our point of view, it's the other ones that are puny. I'm on the short side for a Swede at 1.83 m (about half a head short compared to other males my age in my part of Sweden) and my weight is rather average, 100 kg. Yet I feel very tall in most other European countries and in all countries I've been to (outside Scandinavia) the only other ones within my weight class are ridiculously obese (unless they are (semi-)professional athletes). (In my youth, I used to be seriously underweight at 90 kg, which is just slightly more muscular then most Swedes working with physical labor, today, as I spend most time sitting, it would probably be healthy for me to loose 10 kg.)

Re:I'm crushed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548255)

Sort of short are you not? I am 6'1''. But then again I am an American. Bigger, better, stronger, faster and smarter than the rest of the world.

Re:I'm crushed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548483)

actually, europeans outpaced america there some time ago, sorry.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/04/05/040405fa_fact [newyorker.com]

Your halfwitted social structure is to blame, basically. Unfortunately this very article is about partially-successful attempts to impose your corporate idiocy on europe in an attempt to drag us down to your level.

Fuck copyright law, fuck patent law.

Swedes are allowing terrorism to work... (5, Informative)

gnesterenko (1457631) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546445)

I know, its harsh and maybe too soon, but essentially that is what is going on here. Finally, a real credible threat of prosecution due to file sharing, and so SOME started buying legally. Sales go up and now this is going to be used by corps as evidence that we need stricter online laws etc etc, file sharing dies, corps rake in more dough for subpar products. Nothing good will come of this... that is of course until smart, talented coders come up with even a more anonymous way of sharing that keeps everyone's nose out of our business. Pirate Bay is trying something in this respect, but not quite there, still just disguising you using the old method. New guys will code around this by summer and things will go back to normal - I will hope.

Re:Swedes are allowing terrorism to work... (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546485)

Pretty much what I'm expecting too, only I'm pretty sure that the swedes are basically seeing what they want to see to make the numbers add up in their favor.

Re:Swedes are allowing terrorism to work... (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546521)

People in countries where not everyone is treated as criminals use P2P - For everyone else there is VISA*.

* Or is that Mastercard? Or whatever credit card? Anyway, point made.

Re:Swedes are allowing terrorism to work... (4, Interesting)

bit01 (644603) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546729)

and so SOME started buying legally

SOME is the operative word.

Since they didn't give numbers, they didn't compare in any way to the change in illegal downloads and it's a highly biased source I have to assume the number of legal downloaders has gone up from some small number to two times some small number. Probably only a fraction of the illegal downloads.

They're trying to create the standard "everybody's doing it and you should too" dishonest marketing BS. Similar to the recent windows netbook "stories".

---

The majority of modern marketing is nothing more than an arms race to get mind share. Everybody loses except the parasitic marketing "industry".

Re:Swedes are allowing terrorism to work... (1)

Requiem18th (742389) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548799)

All it means is that the RIAA sent another exec to supervise so the number of RIAA approved consumers doubled immediately.

  Seriously I don't buy for a second that the litigation caused any significant number of people to subscribe to a RIAA approved service in Sweden. This is just a hoax to make their argument seem relevant in the courts.

Re:Swedes are allowing terrorism to work... (2, Insightful)

msormune (808119) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547329)

So you think it's better for artists to get ZERO money because of warez downloading, than to give them SOME money through sales?

And if the products are "subpar" WHY ARE THEY BOOMING IN SALES THEN???

And why were then being downloaded in the first place? I mean, if you can download quality films, why would you download the subpar ones?

Re:Swedes are allowing terrorism to work... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547373)

Because if you aren't buying enough media, you must be a pirate.

Why don't you step outside for a minute here...

Re:Swedes are allowing terrorism to work... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548087)

Legal downloading isn't booming in sales, if by "sale" you mean an exchange of money for goods. It's booming (yeah i know 2 times 0 is still 0 and all that) in use. Some big companies are offering free use of their downloading services for a limited time now, in order to produce these "news".

Re:Swedes are allowing terrorism to work... (1, Insightful)

cliffski (65094) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547371)

Wow.
So asking people to pay for stuff that other people worked on developing is terrorism?
What laughable bullshit.
By the way some of the 'talented coders' actually make commercial software and games. The stuff that people here (and you, it seems) think they were born with a right to enjoy for fuck-all.

If you have respect for the work of 'talented coders' how about you stop taking their work for free?

Re:Swedes are allowing terrorism to work... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547737)

Encryption allows secrecy or anonymity (but usually not both at once) and thus enables terrorists. However it is also an important component in freedom. It might also be worth noting that most terrorists come from really shitty living conditions. Stop cracking down on people so hard and you'll have less of them. I'm not trying to justify the actions of any terrorists, but at the same time I can't really justify many of the actions of my government either.

Re:Swedes are allowing terrorism to work... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547505)

Swedes are allowing terrorism to work.

Nice hyperbole - have you had your meds checked lately? It sounds as though someone needs to up the dosage of your antipsychotics.

Nothing good will come of this... that is of course until smart, talented coders come up with even a more anonymous way of sharing that keeps everyone's nose out of our business.

Congratulations - you are the new poster boy for everything that is wrong with Slashdot in the 21st century. The phrasing of this suggests that you are not a "smart, talented coder"... and your tone implies that you're not technically inclined at all - you're just here for the free music and video.

Please, go back to Digg.

In other news... (4, Funny)

pcolaman (1208838) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546481)

After sweeping porn and prostitution tax collection laws were passed, the legal purchase of properly documented strippers and prostitutes in Sweden increases by 75%. Officials have begun talks into other laws that can be passed to decrease syphilis, the plague, torn euros, smudged photos, and world hunger.

Re:In other news... (1)

jabithew (1340853) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547135)

Sweden doesn't use the Euro, much like the UK and Denmark.

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547619)

No, we tear the euros, just like the gp stated.

I got to go and tear some euros ...

What's the lesson here? (4, Insightful)

chub_mackerel (911522) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546487)

So what does this demonstrate other than that strong legal prohibitions and penalties can affect how people behave?

An extreme example: if a country passed a law making it a capital crime to buy cheese from anyone other than the King's brother, I imagine that 1) the level of activity in the open cheese markets would go down markedly the day after the law was passed; and 2) Regis Frater CheeseCo would be booming.

So again, how is this result surprising and/or newsworthy? Isn't this exactly what you'd expect unless Swedes are totally disrespectful of their country's legal system already? (Give 'em a few more laws like this and they might get there!)

Re:What's the lesson here? (3, Insightful)

ljw1004 (764174) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546883)

I think the lesson is that if you're a media business who wants to double your revenue, then doing it through lobbying is a cheaper and easier way than doing it through innovating new technologies or products, or through satisfying your customers better.

Re:What's the lesson here? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548447)

Yes, because people only illegally download the non-innovative stuff. That's why they want it so badly.

Please remove your head from your ass.

Re:What's the lesson here? (1)

atraintocry (1183485) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546963)

It demonstrates that it was never about sharing culture or overcoming draconian copyright. Just getting stuff for free.

At least, that's how they'll be able to sell it.

Only if piracy was 3x the legit download number (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547481)

Because "piracy" went down 1/3 from the IPRED fluffers and went up 100% from IPRED fluffers.

Therefore, if there were more than 3x the number of people "pirating" there is a net loss in numbers of music downloads. For each of those no longer being made, this wasn't about getting stuff for free.

Now, since we've been told the losses to piracy is several quadrillion dollars, Sweden has a few million users, this must mean that, if your proposition is correct, that the legal download business was previously a multi-trillion-dollar business and is now worth twice that.

Something doesn't add up...

Re:What's the lesson here? (1)

msormune (808119) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547339)

So the lesson isn't people use p2p networks to download copyrighted material, and when they are told explicitly it's not ok, they decrease the downloading? News at 11.

according to digital content provider InProdicon (5, Insightful)

siddesu (698447) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546549)

DNRTFA, but given the source I'd hold my horses until someone with a less obvious bias comments on the effects of the law.

No surprise (5, Insightful)

BetterThanCaesar (625636) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547273)

Indeed. The record industry sanctioned alternatives, including services like Spotify, have been growing in popularity since long before the IPRED law. They continue to grow at roughly the same rate. Only relative to the non-sanctioned downloads have they grown significantly, and seriously, this is probably just a bump in the graph. This is not sensational news.

Re:according to digital content provider InProdico (1)

cliffski (65094) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547383)

someone like kdawson?
HAHAHAHAHA

I read... (5, Informative)

Quantos (1327889) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546591)

I read the article and his blog and came to the conclusion that somewhere some medical professionals are looking for him.
I don't see anything on his site that has any verifiable information on it. He's put a lot of work into trying to connect the dots, but to me it just sounds like a conspiracy theory nut.

Consider the source. (5, Insightful)

Dutchmaan (442553) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546623)

The sale of music via the internet and mobile phones has increased by 100 percent since the

Swedish anti-file sharing IPRED law entered into force last week, according to digital content provider InProdicon.

I'm sorry, but I'd use any numbers provided by content providers with a grain, or a block, of salt. It would not surprise me in the least if numbers weren't fluffed a little or a lot to provide further leverage for future legislation.

Re:Consider the source. (1)

cliffski (65094) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547387)

numbers provided by torrentfreak and thepiratebay are absolutely fucking trustworthy.
*snigger*

Re:Consider the source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547421)

Comments provided by cliffski are not trustworthy.

Re:Consider the source. (1)

bit01 (644603) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547535)

numbers provided by torrentfreak and thepiratebay are absolutely fucking trustworthy.

They're a lot more trustworthy than typical marketer's numbers. Most marketers are paid zealots who act as if honesty is optional.

*snigger*

?

---

You communist! Breathing shared air!

Re:Consider the source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547599)

Correction honesty is not optional. The lack of it is mandatory. In marketing anyhow.

Re:Consider the source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548107)

For example, Dagens Nyheter, one of the largest newspapers in Sweden currently runs a poll on their website.
"Do you buy more games and movies since the introduction of IPRED?" [dn.se]
with the current standings 4385 (96%) for No and 114 (2%) for Yes. While such a poll may be biased towards certain readers that only read the paper online, it's still quite a significant difference of 2% voting Yes compared to the articles claim of 100% increase.

frist pSot? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27546715)

from within. Lay doWn paper

Waiting for verdicts (3, Insightful)

Andtalath (1074376) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546717)

Many swedes are quite cautious by nature, this dip is no bigger than the dip in chips and other products which produced large doses of acryl-amid which was a scary report a few years back.
People are waiting for other people to tell them that it's actually quite all right to download, that the risks aren't all that high until they start downloading again.

The more conscious level of people are just waiting for a legal precedent, since the fact is that no-one currently knows exactly how easy it is to be caught using today's measures.

The thing is, there's the requirement of strong evidence and a proportionally big damage has to done.
No-one knows what this means yet, uploading is being referenced as one of those things, massive scale is another.
So, it might very well turn out that only original seeders are truly affected by this law.

Personally, I'm keeping my traffic down by not downloading in HD and only using private trackers.
Also, I checked the private alternatives, and they all suck, seriously.

Re:Waiting for verdicts (3, Insightful)

genmax (990012) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546815)

I don't think that's a valid counter argument to what the article is claiming. You're saying that the dip in sales corresponds to people being cautious in the wake of the new laws, and buying music instead of 'stealing'. But that still corroborates the *AA companies' claim that if there were no piracy, they would be making a lot more money -- and hence p2p file sharing is depriving them of income. I would really challenge the doubling claims which, as other poster have pointed out, is coming from an obviously biased source. I'm not sure why InProdicon is unwilling to give out actual numbers, and I think they need to do a lot more work before credibly claiming that any increases are because of the IPRED law.

Re:Waiting for verdicts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547007)

Now that we know the actual increase in sales, we can compare that to the number of alleged illegal downloads, and finally compute exactly how many lost sales are caused by each illegal download. my guess: less than 0.01. This would put that actual damages at about $0.0099 / song.

Re:Waiting for verdicts (1)

Entropius (188861) | more than 5 years ago | (#27549157)

THIS.

How to Lie with Statistics (4, Interesting)

Gutboy (587531) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546739)

Given that they don't want to give actual numbers, for all we know sales went from 1 to 2 (100% increase). This whole article is a propaganda piece.

Obligatory Dilbert (1)

BlueParrot (965239) | more than 5 years ago | (#27546819)

You expect us to be impressed by a percentage increase over a trivial base?

I predict... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27546853)

A boom in VPN:s, sneakernet and direct sharing between people who know each others, as well.

Human psychology and FUD (2, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547077)

So there's a big change in threat level. People download what they want before the law goes into effect, then pause so the legal system will clog up with others before they resume as they're sure to make a big push and media splash now. At the same time, people again decide to try out the legal options and see if they suck less now. This month's figures are pretty much meaningless, because both are natural and temporary reactions. Give it a little while and people will want new stuff again, done the rounds and found P2P is still superior, the threat exaggerated and the legal systems full (try prosecuting a country with over 1mio file sharers of a population less than 10mio) and want to convict robbers and rapists and murderers instead of file sharers that won't pay. Give it 3-6 months and you'll see if there's any real change here or just blowing smoke.

UMMM! (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547165)

it may not be ralted to Ipred laws at all, maybe they just ran a huge advertising campaign, or maybe there could be other causes, does anyone know how much online music sales have fluctuated globaly in that time period?, it wouldn`t surprise me if more people where buying music track by track online rather than by CD in the shops with the global economy in the state its in.

Dear editors (1)

The 2nd . Oracle (1485825) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547391)

...why do you keep spewing this kind of crap at us?

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1186291&cid=27441677 [slashdot.org]

Here, go ahead:

http://stats.autonomica.se/mrtg/sums_max/all_month_sum.png [autonomica.se]

This is the monthly summarized statistics for netnod. Does indeed look like a big drop at April 1st and pretty stable usage before.

Anonymous? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547415)

People are being slowly trained/conditioned to just give away any information they could be asked for.
(This is partly a reply to a post on the TPB VPN thread: http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1178293&cid=27358897 )
I noticed a 'what are your favorite positions?' game/quiz over at Facebook.

Can you say "Propaganda?" (1)

1mck (861167) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547723)

Of course they're going to fucking say they're successful! Where are they getting those figures from? Yeah, they made them up! Anything to make it look like they're winning.

Re:Can you say "Propaganda?" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548263)

Yes! It is propaganda. However there never seems to be comments about propaganda, when it is propaganda from the opposite side.

A joke (1)

ivoras (455934) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547837)

Reminds me of a joke:

There was this church somewhere which developed a bad reputation with the Church officials for low attendance, so one day the bishop reluctantly decides to replace its priest with a new, younger one, who has been given instructions to do his best to bring more people in.

So it happens, and for the next few weeks there are no news from the new priest. Finally, after a month, a report comes in: "church attendance has increased 100%!" The bishop is ecstatic and wishes to award the new priest at the first opportunity so he schedules a visit.

He arrives on a Sunday and stays there for the morning Mass, the midday Mass and the evening Mass but is confused. Finally he turns to the priest and asks him - "Is that all? I've been here the whole day and I only ever saw two little grannies in the pews?!" - the young priest replies "Yes, your excellency, there was only one little granny attending before my mother started coming!"

The moral of the story is - don't trust percentages without raw numbers!

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>