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Use apt-p2p To Improve Ubuntu 9.04 Upgrade

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the sharing-it-around dept.

Upgrades 269

An anonymous reader writes "With Jaunty Jackalope scheduled for release in 12 days on April 23, this blog posting describes how to switch to apt-p2p in preparation for the upgrade. This should help significantly to reduce the load on the mirrors, smooth out the upgrade experience for all involved, and bypass the numerous problems that have occurred in the past on Ubuntu release day. Remember to disable all third-party repositories beforehand."

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269 comments

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Website and Warning (4, Informative)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547863)

The site [camrdale.org] doesn't have much information, but other sources I have read state that apt-p2p is very experimental. Use at your own peril!

Re:Website and Warning (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547887)

The site looks badly outdated. The caveat I would add to your warnings is that the upload speed is uncapped by default. You'll want to limit this unless you want the world to be able to leech you hard. If I left this unlimited my ISP would fucking kill me.

Re:Website and Warning (0)

smallfries (601545) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548273)

How do they handle security? If I let the world leech from me then I can seed whatever kind of files that I want through the swarm. Please tell me there is something a bit more secure than a broken (md5) or a nearly broken (sha1) hash stopping this...

Re:Website and Warning (2, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548341)

Easily found from apt-p2p's main page: protocol [camrdale.org] ... please don't ask me to browse the web for you again, kthxbye.

Re:Website and Warning (2, Informative)

strstrep (879828) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548363)

I don't know about Ubuntu, but Debian uses GPG to sign all their packages, so I'd guess that Ubuntu does the same.

apt-p2p works fine (1)

thegnu (557446) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548343)

I set it up about 6 months ago on my girlfriend's computer, and except for when I'm stealing internet and i've got an intermittent connection, it's worked solidly.

Alternate CD (5, Informative)

elwin_windleaf (643442) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547873)

You can also upgrade Ubuntu with an alternate install CD. These can be downloaded via bittorrent, and usually trigger an "automatic update" prompt as soon as they are inserted into an existing Ubuntu system.

Re:Alternate CD (2, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547905)

That will help a lot, but you're still going to have a lot to get from the mirrors on a typical system. Odds are, many of the packages in the ISO will be outdated by the time you get it :P I'm running apt-get update on my apt-p2p'd system and so far, so good.

Re:Alternate CD (2, Interesting)

QuantumRiff (120817) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548711)

No, as he stated, you can get the alternate disc from bittorrent as well. Then use that to upgrade to 9.04. That would DRASTICALLY reduce the load on the mirrors..

good idea but... (5, Interesting)

mrphoton (1349555) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547889)

I had wondered for a while why yum and apt did not do this by default. It would seem a great ideal. However.... I recently tried to down load fedora 11 alpha via bit torrent using a BT internet connection in the UK. It worked great for about 10Mb (@90-100kb/s), then the download speed gradually ground to a halt. (5kb/s) When I tried a direct download of the same iso the speed bumped back up to a steady 100kb/s. I concluded BT was throttling my bit torrent connection of a legal download to a very slow speed.
So my point is sounds like a great idea but if it is enabled by default it had better have some way to detect bandwidth throttling of p2p networks and revert to http transfer.

Re:good idea but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547983)

Or maybe you shouldn't give your money to an ISP that's a piece of shit.

Re:good idea but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548023)

it's britain. BT/MI5 is the only option for a lot of them, think AT&T.

Re:good idea but... (1)

s0l1dsnak3123 (1244796) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548121)

I use another ISP that buys their bandwidth from a wholesaler called entanet. They are in bed with the RIAA and MPAA, but they give massive bandwidth, and do not block any ports or filter p2p.

Re:good idea but... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548215)

They are in bed with the RIAA and MPAA, but do not block any ports or filter p2p.

That does not compute!

Re:good idea but... (2, Insightful)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548227)

They are in bed with the RIAA and MPAA, but they give massive bandwidth, and do not block any ports or filter p2p.

So, they're letting you do whatever you want, to make sure they maximize the amount of money they can sue you for?

Re:good idea but... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548361)

Of course, if you're not using p2p to download copyrighted material, that might not be a problem.

Re:good idea but... (1)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548667)

Of course, if you're not using p2p to download copyrighted material, that might not be a problem.

And to all of us who are not copyright lawyers, encryption is easier. BTW even Linux is copyrighted.

Re:good idea but... (1)

s0l1dsnak3123 (1244796) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548689)

says anonymous coward - the most notorious pirate on the internets!

Re:good idea but... (3, Informative)

FluffyWithTeeth (890188) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548339)

This isn't how it works in the UK. If BT has phone lines going somewhere, then you have dozens of ISPs to choose from.

They can be buying direct from BT wholesale, or own anything quite a bit further up the chain. Noone should really be touching the BT consumer ISP for any reason.

Re:good idea but... (3, Interesting)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548207)

I had wondered for a while why yum and apt did not do this by default. *snip*

Because it would be wrong to default to forcing a person to share their limited resources.

It should be enabled by default (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548223)

I think it should just be enabled by default, maybe it will take massive legitimate P2P use to force ISPs to stop throttling P2P connections. It's a chicken and egg scenario... do we wait for them to stop throttling P2P to make heavy use of it, or do we make heavy use of it and force ISPs to stop throttling it? I don't think they will just do it out of the kindness of their hearts, so it will take a demonstration to make it happen.

Re:good idea but... (2, Insightful)

Fruit (31966) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548613)

It could be that your uploading is killing your download speed. See one of the other comments for instructions on how to limit upload speed if you hadn't already.

Re:good idea but... (1)

Teun (17872) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548623)

I assume you reported this issue with BT and what was their response?

Re:good idea but... (1, Redundant)

INT_QRK (1043164) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548639)

Please correct my understanding if it I don't seem to be getting it, but I'm more than a little uncomfortable about downloading from anywhere except an official repository wherein I have certificates to verify the identity of the source. I trust Canonical. Call me paranoid, but I just don't trust an anonymous man-in-the middle from a Peer-to-peer scheme they this seems to suggest.

Re:good idea but... (1)

mrphoton (1349555) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548757)

When using bit torrent to download linux and my line has not been throttled. I usually download the image via bit torrent, then go to the fedora site and get hold of the check sum directly. Then check.... I am paranoid too.

Re:good idea but... (2, Informative)

turbidostato (878842) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548807)

Please undo moderation to parent post. Signed packages anyone?

Re:good idea but... (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548679)

The beginning flood was the BT program searching for sources and announcing itself to the network.

If you would have kept it running, it would have gone up again. Or there were not as much high-bandwidth users, so compete with the direct download server.

At least, that is my experience with P2P programs.

Slashdotted... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27547921)

mirror here: http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:3gY3Bq4EKnMJ:blog.chenhow.net/os/linux/ubuntu/using-apt-p2p-for-faster-upgrades-from-intrepid-to-jaunty/+http://blog.chenhow.net/os/linux/ubuntu/using-apt-p2p-for-faster-upgrades-from-intrepid-to-jaunty&cd=1&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl

Deterrent (5, Funny)

senorpoco (1396603) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547953)

I have yet to have an Ubuntu distro update smoothly, ever. But that won't stop me, onward I will plunge headlong into it with abandon. I don't like my data anyway.

Partitions are your friend (3, Insightful)

mangu (126918) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548275)

I have yet to have an Ubuntu distro update smoothly, ever.

Me too. Often it's quicker to do a full install from scratch.

But that won't stop me, onward I will plunge headlong into it with abandon. I don't like my data anyway.

That's why my systems always have at least two different partitions: one for "/" and another for "/home". I can reformat my system partition and still have my data intact.

Re:Partitions are your friend (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548659)

Say what?

eselect profile set default/linux/amd64/2009.0/desktop
emerge --update world

(go get some industrial coffee)

Done!

Re:Partitions are your friend (1)

QuantumRiff (120817) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548729)

I have never understood why Ubuntu doesn't format partitions this way by default when you use the default "automatic" partitioning scheme..

Re:Deterrent (1)

blackest_k (761565) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548373)

To be honest me neither, there is always something not quite right, with a brand new distro, Intrepid broke sound for a number of people. Was it Hardy with the evolution bug that maxed out the CPU. I think it's always going to be that way but its usually fixed within a month at most. Die hard Ubuntu users hold up their hands in horror and say things like thats it I'm moving back to Windows but it's all good fun and we all get busy fixing the problems and finding cures and occasionally reverting back to the now stable version we have become used to.

The best advice I can give for anyone new to Linux is don't go for a distro which has been out less than a month, there will be wrinkles that need ironing out in the new version and without some experience its going to be more frustrating than fun.

I'm upgrading to 8.10 (2, Insightful)

a09bdb811a (1453409) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547965)

Currently on 8.04, I'll be upgrading to 8.10 sometime after 9.04 is released.

Staying 6 months behind is a reasonable compromise. Let the lab rats (er, enthusiasts!) debug the new stuff first. Last time I checked 8.10 in a VM there was something like 320MB worth of updated packages.

As for the packages themselves, run a local apt proxy like approx [debian.org] , especially if you have more than one Debian or Ubuntu system. It keeps a copy of every .deb you download, and automatically purges the ones that are outdated.

Re:I'm upgrading to 8.10 (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548005)

My advice if you like the stable releases is to skip the .10 releases altogether. I always like to chase the bleeding edge, although that is kind of a dangerous place to be. My most salient advice is to make a bootable, external-disk full system backup before attempting an Ubuntu upgrade. It's pretty easy once you figure out grub.

Re:I'm upgrading to 8.10 (1)

badpazzword (991691) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548123)

Agreed. 9.04 (Beta) feels way stabler than 8.10 (Beta), just like 8.04 (Beta) felt way stabler than 7.10 (Beta).

Re:I'm upgrading to 8.10 (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548157)

My most salient advice is to make a bootable, external-disk full system backup before attempting an Ubuntu upgrade.

I'm far too lazy for that, so I tend to just back everything up to a folder -- even a folder on the same system. It's much easier to downgrade if the entire thing falls apart, but I've never had an Ubuntu upgrade completely kill my filesystem or hard drive.

Re:I'm upgrading to 8.10 (2, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548181)

I've never had an Ubuntu upgrade completely kill my filesystem or hard drive.

"I know what you're asking yourself..."

8.10 upgrade glitch: downclocking (1)

badpazzword (991691) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548161)

<fair-warning><personal-experience><ymmv/>

During the 8.10 upgrade, at some point, the cpu frequency selector will get stuck on the "Ondemand" setting, which during an OS upgrade pretty much means "use all the speed the CPU can give".

On my computer, that meant having it shut off midway the upgrade as I raced to downclock it screaming at policy-tool getting in the way ("I AM &@%!ING ROOT WHAT DO YOU MEAN I AM NOT ALLOWED"). If you need downclocking too, be wary.

I didn't experience this on my 9.04 upgrade to Alpha 5.

</personal-experience></fair-warning>

Re:8.10 upgrade glitch: downclocking (1)

Clarious (1177725) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548261)

I always keep my laptop plugged in whenever I update (actually I do that all the time) :)

And you can use the GNOME cpufreq applet to change the governor (just remember to reinstall it to have suid)

Re:8.10 upgrade glitch: downclocking (1)

badpazzword (991691) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548521)

The applet was my first attempt of course. The command line command was my second. sudo was my third. Tinkering with policy-tool as root was my fourth.

I guess my fifth attempt should have been the refrigerator. >.<

Re:8.10 upgrade glitch: downclocking (2, Informative)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548417)

ondemand actually happens to be the best governor.

In theory, "powersave", by keeping the CPU frequency at a minimum would save some power in comparison. In practice, it doesn't. This is because doing anything at all prevents the CPU from entering the lowest power using modes (which go beyond simply dropping in frequency).

So it's more efficient to make the CPU run at full blast, do whatever needs to be done, then go to sleep (C3, not suspend to RAM), than to do the same work at a lower clock speed, keeping the CPU active 3 or 4 times longer. By C2 the clock isn't active anymore, which is a huge gain on anything the "powersave" governor can provide.

Re:8.10 upgrade glitch: downclocking (1)

badpazzword (991691) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548513)

I am sorry I wasn't clear enough. The problem is that my CPU will overheat and the computer will shutoff if the CPU runs at full blast for too long, which is exactly what happens with ondemand during a distro upgrade.

Re:8.10 upgrade glitch: downclocking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548631)

I am sorry I wasn't clear enough. The problem is that my CPU will overheat and the computer will shutoff if the CPU runs at full blast for too long, which is exactly what happens with ondemand during a distro upgrade.

So many snarky responses possible-
Must ... resist ... posting ... one ...

Re:8.10 upgrade glitch: downclocking (1)

karnal (22275) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548795)

Sounds like you have a hardware problem, not a software problem.

Can you limit the max bus speed within the bios to hard-limit the max speed of the processor?

Slower to start (2, Interesting)

Nomaxxx (1136289) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547977)

I've used apt-p2p as an apt-get replacement for a short time. It often downloads faster than the standard method but is slower to start downloading. So it's not great when you have many small packages to install. But for a full system upgrade I guess it's a good alternative. Especially on (or close to) launch date when you're sure that update manager will go idle midway through the upgrade. Other alternative is to wait for a week or too after release date when servers are less busy.

Re:Slower to start (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548369)

What speeds to you normally get?

I ask because I pretty consistently get 1.4 MB/s from the mirrors (I ran the speed test and chose the quickest).

Obviously right around release things are different though.

Good citizenship (3, Insightful)

AlecC (512609) | more than 5 years ago | (#27547993)

What I like about this is not so much the potentially faster upgrade as the ability to contribute a bit to others. The six-monthly upgrades are are rate enough that I don't mind if they are a bit slow - not that they have been. But I am very conscious that I am using other people's freely given bandwidth and I am pleased to be able to give some back.

Does anybody know if I can force my various machines to cross-peer from each other? If I update one first, I don't want the others searching the Net for peers - they should just copy from the first.

Re:Good citizenship (3, Informative)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548077)

You should just set up an apt-cache on one and direct the others to fetch from the first. There are several to choose from. Search for "apt proxy."

Bandwidth usage (5, Interesting)

Chris_Jefferson (581445) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548011)

I'm concerned that after reading the article, and apt-p2p's FAQ page, that I can't find any guide to how much upload bandwidth this thing will use. While I'm all for sharing, I find it important to cap my upload speed so my connection performs well on other stuff I'm doing, and also stop uploading once I'm at 1:1 sharing or so. Some of us pay if we use too much bandwidth!

Re:Bandwidth usage (3, Informative)

Mr_Perl (142164) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548069)

Can't help you with the paying for extra bandwidth, but the wondershaper [lartc.org] has helped my limited speed home network remain responsive during downloads.

Re:Bandwidth usage (3, Informative)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548213)

It will obliterate your monthly use cap.

This mode of distribution only works in a perfect world, which few of us live in now.

Re:Bandwidth usage (2, Interesting)

stevied (169) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548309)

Just installed it, there's an option in /etc/apt-p2p.conf to limit the upload bandwidth. I haven't tested it yet, however ..

Re:Bandwidth usage (1)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548431)

I'm concerned that after reading the article, and apt-p2p's FAQ page, that I can't find any guide to how much upload bandwidth this thing will use. While I'm all for sharing, I find it important to cap my upload speed so my connection performs well on other stuff I'm doing, and also stop uploading once I'm at 1:1 sharing or so. Some of us pay if we use too much bandwidth!

I hope that there is still an option to limit the downloads to mirrors, otherwise at company I work at I will probably be unable install/upgrade anything. This is because while they do tolerate a 1GB download, they don't tolerate P2P style behaviour.

No thanks, im no criminal (5, Funny)

wjh31 (1372867) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548013)

p2p is a method used exclusively by criminals, there's no way im going to be using this method.

Re:No thanks, im no criminal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548055)

ha ha.....

Hey mods... (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548165)

Whoosh.

Mod this +5 Funny so we can see it for the sarcasm it is.

(If it's not sarcasm, of course, you are a sad little man.)

Slashdotted? (5, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548025)

It worked for me. But in case it really is slashdotted here's the story, from memory (let's test those theories eh?)

  1. apt-get install apt-p2p (Not in Hardy and older repos IIRC... for you late/sporadic upgraders)
  2. Back up your /etc/apt/sources.list and then edit the file, s/\/\//\/\/localhost:9977\// (hope I got that right -- Guess I could have just used # or something eh?)
  3. Not in the guide: edit /etc/apt-p2p/apt-p2p.conf and set UPLOAD_LIMIT ... just in case. :) You probably have to /etc/init.d/apt-p2p restart after that.
  4. apt-get update
  5. Then make the update... But it's not time for that yet.

Re:Slashdotted? (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548065)

Try this, based on your note. (I don't have an Ubuntu system in hand). rsync -avH /etc/apt/ /etc/apt.orig/ --delete # Makes sure you have an up-to-date copy apt-get install apt-p2p # or use synaptic for a GUI interface sed -i 's%//%/localhost:9977/%g' /etc/apt/sources.list apt-get update

Re:Slashdotted? (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548105)

I'm sorry, I should not have accidentally used HTML format:

        rsync -avH /etc/apt/ /etc/apt.orig/ --delete # Makes sure you have an up-to-date copy
        apt-get install apt-p2p # or use synaptic for a GUI interface
        sed -i 's%//%/localhost:9977/%g' /etc/apt/sources.list apt-get update

Re:Slashdotted? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548235)

You still got the apt-get update on the wrong line, and dropped a / from your regexp. But also we both forgot to update files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d. With your help:
for i in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list
do
sudo sed -i 's%//%//localhost:9977/%g' "$i"
done

And of course, tweak *.list as appropriate. My directory had *.list and *.list.save files... I removed the latter :)

Re:Slashdotted? (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548643)

Thank you: I didn't have an Ubuntu in hand, but was amused by the attempts to backspace-manage the '/' in the original command, and the handwaving for the "sed with this". The 'sed -i' command is one of the more useful feature additions to sed of the last 20 years.

More Linux mirrors needed (4, Insightful)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548027)

Many primary Linux download sites wind up taking an unreasonable amount of traffic from default setups. If you want to contribute back to the OS's and packages that you find so useful, consider setting up a local mirror to share with the world at large. If you can't justify that, at least consider setting up an internal rsync mirror anytime you have a dozen or more boxes to make updates and downloads much faster for your site, and configure your local machines to point to that local mirror.

This turns out to be especially useful for PXE installaters and cluster setups, for any Linux or other OS. There's nothing like having 100 internal Linux machines all trying to update OpenOffice at the same time from an external primary site, through a corporate DSL line, to ensure that many of the updates will fail.

Re:More Linux mirrors needed (1)

Warlord88 (1065794) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548101)

Correct. Here at IIT Bombay, we have a local mirror of all repositories of major linux distributions. Saves a lot of bandwidth as well as time. All packages get downloaded very fast ~ 5 Mbps. I guess most of US universities must also have a local mirror.

Re:More Linux mirrors needed (1)

scientus (1357317) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548749)

just install apt-cacher-ng, WAY easier than a local repository, and doesnt waste bandwidth on stuff you never install.

Why upgrade? (4, Insightful)

wiresquire (457486) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548033)

If it works, why upgrade at all?

Ubuntu 8.04 is a Long Term Support (LTS) release. It will have any security patches until the next LTS release, which is typically every 18 months. So, why not just wait for 9.10?

ws

Re:Why upgrade? (1)

Warlord88 (1065794) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548073)

Firstly, there is an urge among many, many individual users to have the 'latest' stuff on their machines. Secondly, many would like to try out the new things in the latest distribution. Some things can be quite helpful. Ubuntu has always added small but useful things in each distribution. Servers is totally different case. But shouldn't servers be running debian anways?

Re:Why upgrade? (2, Informative)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548079)

For the same reason that you'll upgrade to 9.10 instead of waiting for 11.04: Features.

Sure, it'll have all the bugfixes for years, but it won't have any of the new features.

(In case anyone has forgotten, LTS are supported for 3 years on the desktop, so there's no 'need' to upgrade every 18 months.)

Re:Why upgrade? (1)

rrossman2 (844318) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548113)

True, but... how in the world would I then run into the issue of having to try to patch the new kernel with a wireless injection module developed for a kernel that's quite a few revisions back?!
That would just be too easy!

Re:Why upgrade? (4, Funny)

WormholeFiend (674934) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548139)

AFAIK, women prefer men who have all the latest upgrades

Re:Why upgrade? (1)

AusIV (950840) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548169)

Some people prefer more recent software. On my laptop, I'm looking forward to OpenOffice 3.0, some upgrades to Tomboy, Pidgin, (tentatively) Amarok, and several other packages I use. The Open Source world moves quickly with most software, and running something that's close to two years old may mean you're missing a lot of features.

Certainly, there are systems you'd rather keep up and running in a known-good configuration than try new software that may or may not work as well. I have a MythTV backend / web and file server that I try to keep up as much as possible. It was on Dapper from the day it came out until I rebuilt the box and decided that since Gutsy and Dapper had about the same end-of-life, I'd use the more recent of the two. It stayed on Gutsy for about 14 months before being upgraded to Hardy, where it will stay until Hardy's support winds down.

I understand why you'd want to stay with one release for a long time, but the non-LTS releases exist for a reason, and it makes sense that people would want things like apt-p2p to help the upgrade go smoothly.

Re:Why upgrade? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548195)

Mostly because I'm already on 8.10, and I don't like being a full year out of date.

Some of that is actually legitimate -- for instance, various development tools and games would be falling out of date. Some of it's just impulsive -- I occasionally regret updating to 8.10, as KDE4 was really not ready.

Re:Why upgrade? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548591)

I occasionally regret updating to 8.10, as KDE4 was really not ready.

Well, KDE4 in 0904beta is still not ready... Glad I'm still on 0804. But I do want a new kernel and ext4fs :(

Anyone knows a good, uptodate, userfriendly and binary distro that still uses KDE3.5?

Re:Why upgrade? (1)

windsurfer619 (958212) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548411)

If you have 8.10, you cannot upgrade to 9.10 directly. You must upgrade to 9.04 first. That's why you cannot simply wait for 9.10.

Re:Why upgrade? (1)

Excelsior (164338) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548727)

Better boot performance, new notification system, OpenOffice 3, Firefox 3.1, ext4.

Besides those, it's been my experience that any new version of any Linux distro, and especially Ubuntu, that each new version supports hardware that previously didn't work, or took an act of a command-line-god to get working.

My policy is, I keep the LTS release on my server, and upgrade it when a new LTS comes out. However, on my desktops and laptops, I always upgrade to the latest release. If you look at the list of new features, usually none of them would I care about on a server. The only exception in 9.04 is the inclusion of ext4, but I am taking a wait-and-see until there is more consensus that it is trustworthy.

If you want to get the new release when it's hot (2, Interesting)

badpazzword (991691) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548117)

I honestly suggest to upgrade when the RC is out (1). That's one week before the actual release date, or in other words Thursday. FYI, when I upgraded to the Alpha 6 I had to download 1.3 GBs; torrenting as much is still going to take a lot of time.

The Release Candidate is typically identical to the "gold" release; also you will help Canonical in testing everything runs as good as it should. If you install apt-p2p (2) you'll even get the warm fuzzy feeling of being a seed for the new packages. :D

The upgrade process is identical -- the only difference is in starting it. Hit Alt-F2 and use "update-manager -d" then hit "Upgrade".

(1) Or hell, upgrade /right now/. I'm using the beta and it is rather stable and experience tells me the beta is always pretty near to what goes gold.
(2) I wouldn't use apt-p2p to upgrade to a dev version as you will find far less peers. However installing it afterwards should let you act as a seed for those packages.

Re:If you want to get the new release when it's ho (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548257)

Is Alt-F2 "run" in your shiny little world? It never has been for me, and still isn't. On the other hand, I did use Compiz and gmrun to make Super+R run programs.

Re:If you want to get the new release when it's ho (1)

badpazzword (991691) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548479)

Yes. I'm sorry your little word isn't as shiny as mine (despite my 3 years old shiny little world has a 1.73 GHz CPU that shuts off when it goes at 1.73 GHz, a non-working firefox-3.0, a malfunctioning usplash, a gedit that doesn't quite like zsh, three failed updates, etc.), but my point is very simple.

If you want to run the latest and greatest software (and you want to run all the risks this takes) you may as well get it a bit sooner than the rest so that you can report bugs before the actual release, and so that you can help balance the network load... provided the thing boots after the release ;)

Re:If you want to get the new release when it's ho (1)

badpazzword (991691) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548517)

Typo: "provided the thing boots after the upgrade."

Re:If you want to get the new release when it's ho (1)

Rog-Mahal (1164607) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548485)

I've tried upgrading with beta a few times, and it can be pretty dicey, especially if you have customised config files or packages from non-Ubuntu repos. Net upgrades have never gone off without some major hitches in my experience. Plus, it's kind of nice to wait for the official release and do some spring cleaning. Net upgrade may be a good idea if you have a box just for experimenting, but I wouldn't recommend it for your daily driver.

Site slashdotted! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548149)

Maybe we need slashdot-p2p...

What about deltas? (1)

cheftw (996831) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548153)

I honestly cannot understand why they don't just release deltas against the old packages. They don't really change greatly between releases and most people do keep a reasonable number of packages in the apt cache. I know it won't work in every single case but maybe only then should they fall back to the full download. Getting the whole thing every time seems hideously inefficient.

Please someone show me where I'm wrong (in a helpful way if you can manage, bonus points for analogies).

Re:What about deltas? (1, Flamebait)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548319)

I honestly cannot understand why they don't just release deltas against the old packages.

They're waiting for you to overhaul apt to support delta packages.

Well? Let's see some code!

Re:What about deltas? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548697)

debdelta already exists:

http://packages.debian.org/debdelta

It just isn't well integrated with apt:

http://bugs.debian.org/498778

Re:What about deltas? (1)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548427)

Delta packages make little sense in Debian universe: you'll never find two servers configured same way. Meaning that for the delta packages to be useful, double amount of packages has to be maintained. Actually more than double: one has to maintain the delta packages to migrate from several older versions. And for fresh installs and security updates, not only deltas but the packages themselves would also have to be available too.

As *buntus go, that might make sense. After all most people sit on a particular distro version, upgrading using the delta packages shouldn't be a problem.

In the end it all boils down to what is cheaper: bandwidth or overhead of managing the delta packages. Considering that Debian already has 30k+(?) packages and at least 3 repos of them, the overhead of managing deltas might be really high. And the bandwidth day after day is becoming cheaper and cheaper...

Re:What about deltas? (1)

scientus (1357317) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548769)

they already have this, its called defdiff and i think there are some debian mirrors that host them. But it makes more sense to use the full thing, and then have a local caching server. diffs would be more bandwidth where there are multiple installs from differnt starting packages.

Re:What about deltas? (2, Informative)

stevied (169) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548773)

More promising is some sort of system built on zsync [moria.org.uk] - there are some ideas here [ubuntu.com] .

Irony (4, Informative)

digitalderbs (718388) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548199)

that a site advising the use of p2p to prevent the meltdown of servers has itself been slashdotted.

On a side note : web data and pages themselves could be p2p distributed too, no? Say a peer gets a webpage's hash (containing html and images) and the date/time of expiry for a webpage from a server. If other peers have that page (html+images), and it's up to date, you could download their copy. Otherwise, the server sends a fresh copy to you, and you seed it for others. Not being in computer science, I'm sure this has been proposed before and that there are glaring shortcomings I have missed.

Re:Irony (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548691)

Well, first it screws with hit counters and any other type of dynamic content. Tben you get quite a few round trips, first one to the server asking for hash and expirery, then if you want it via p2p you have to get some peers, then you have to request from them, maybe they've left the swarm, are dead slow, feeding you junk data or whatever until finally you hopefully get a good verison. Plus you need people willing to p2p your site which people don't understand and suddenly they blame your site for making internet slow and whatnot. 99% it's some dynamic CMS or whatever that goes down, not the static pages anyway so it's just not solving very much.

Apt-Cacher (1)

AusIV (950840) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548241)

I plan to upgrade directly from the Ubuntu servers, but I'm only going to hit their servers once for the three machines I'm upgrading. I use apt-cacher [ubuntu.com] , which stores packages on the local network once they've been downloaded by something on the network, then sends out the cached version when it's requested again. It doesn't help much for the odd day-to-day package installation, but it makes significant upgrades much faster after the first system. You have to configure all of the systems to use the proxy, but it's easy to setup. If you run more than one or two systems, I'd definitely look into it.

Re:Apt-Cacher (1)

prefec2 (875483) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548663)

apt-cacher is great stuff and I strongly recommend it for setups with 2 or more machines. It svaes mirror bandwidth and your own bandwidth. So it is a time saver and for those of us who do not have the luxury of a flatrate, it svaes money too.

Rock solid upgrades (1)

dudeeh (877041) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548285)

I'm not sure why people keep having problems with upgrading their ubuntu machine to newer versions. I have upgraded through most releases (though not always continuously cause for instance i switched to 64 bit recently) and I've never run into any problems really.

mod 3own (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548299)

of OpenBSD. How MAKES ME SICK JUST

ext4? (1)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548375)

I was originally planning a full format and reinstall for this release, not only so I could obliterate my Vista partition, but also to take advantage of ext4, which I assume requires a full wipe. Should I just try upgrading in place instead? This news has me reconsidering...

Google Cached Version (1)

SuperNothing307 (1399851) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548425)

Here's a link to Google's cached version of the blog, in case anyone still wants to read it: http://tinyurl.com/cspfrq [tinyurl.com]

Re:Google Cached Version (1)

SuperNothing307 (1399851) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548445)

FAIL. Wrong link, my apologies...Google apparently hasn't cached it yet...

Another great idea (-1, Troll)

Ice Station Zebra (18124) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548655)

Brought to you by the people who also created apt-get install openssl-blacklist.

One step closer to the Linux virus...

Mirror anxiety (1, Insightful)

blake182 (619410) | more than 5 years ago | (#27548719)

Is it just me or is the fun game of "pick your closest mirror" not very fun at all? Just download the damn thing at best possible speed. I don't care where you get it from.

As if I'm in a position to pick the best site where to download something from. Give me a break. Apologies to the power users who can lick their Ethernet cable and tell which site will have the best download performance and availability.

The /. effect (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27548731)

URL is slashdotted... damnit.

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