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Lobby Groups Launch Full Assault For Canadian DMCA

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the sneak-it-through-while-everyone's-watching-playoff-hockey dept.

The Internet 135

An anonymous reader writes "Bill C-61, the previous attempt at a Canadian DMCA, may have failed, but it is clear that the music, movie, and business software industries are engaged in putting massive pressure on the Canadian government to bring it back. Lobbying records show several meetings each week with Government Ministers for CRIA, CMPDA, and Microsoft over the past month. Meanwhile, the CRIA is preparing a grassroots campaign in support of new copyright laws, even claiming that the current rules are costing jobs to truck drivers delivering CDs and DVDs."

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135 comments

What a load of crap! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27624115)

Ha ha ha ha!

Truck Drivers? (1)

RandomChars (1455331) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624127)

I thought that distribution was supposed to be moving towards being done over the net anyways. Tough to say if new copyright laws will be able to be pushed through anyways right now, what with the minority government and all right now.

Re:Truck Drivers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27624259)

Besides which, what costs truck drivers jobs are the fucking RECESSION that recently hit the world. Saying it's due to copyright is fucking insane. I know for a fact that stricter copyright laws will NOT be saving any jobs in the trucking industry.

Re:Truck Drivers? (4, Insightful)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624327)

I woke up this morning and ate a piece of toast. Five people simultaneously died in Japan. Eating toast kills Japanese people.

In all seriousness, technology marches on. The number of folks earning a living building horse drawn carriages dropped off sharply with the advent of mass-produced automobiles.

Re:Truck Drivers? (4, Funny)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624999)

Thank god no Americans died because of your toast, or you'd be a terrorist!

Re:Truck Drivers? (1)

jcgf (688310) | more than 4 years ago | (#27626963)

If less than 6 Americans died you ain't doing toast properly. Just got back from Williston this morning after managing to pick up 11 last night. I would have had 15 but the other 4 passed the exam (one surprised me as I didn't think she was going to figure out the last derivative but I guess she remembered her product rule in the last 10 minutes of the session - surprised the hell out of me which I mentioned during my speech at the graduation ceremonies).

Anyways, to bring this post back on topic, I think these are just a bunch of whiny assholes that are all bitchy that we're heading south of the border to get our entertainment. They deserve all of the disdain they get. Yes, Rush and BTO were awesome, but just look at some of the crap they've given us since:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_hip_hop [wikipedia.org]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYnhTC7vdv0 [youtube.com]

Speaking of entertainment, take a look at this:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/16/texas-governor-says-secession-possible/ [cnn.com]
When they start casting, I'm going to audition to play a Confederate telegraph operator (it's a minor roll - no speaking but I nod a lot when Mel Gibson's character speaks to me and you can listen to me send what he says). The director told me that he hopes Fox will put us next to American Dad.

Re:Truck Drivers? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27626665)

Aha! How can you prove that it is not rather dying japanese people that makes you crave toast?

WE PAY A LEVY (1)

CHRONOSS2008 (1226498) | more than 4 years ago | (#27627141)

350 million on said cdrs
and they JUST got a 50% increase on that levy

WOW AIG style greed
ya want a levy and the copyright draconian laws

me thinks we need a new political party or one that will stop this madness

Re:Truck Drivers? (3, Interesting)

mercosmique (1415693) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624371)

I hail from Saskatchewan, Canada. The general public here (farmers) could be gullible enough to believe that those newfangled bit-torrent do-hickeys are contributing to the trucking industry's troubles.

Re:Truck Drivers? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27624567)

Yea all 10 of em are a concern.

Re:Truck Drivers? (5, Funny)

Silvrmane (773720) | more than 4 years ago | (#27626579)

I'm from Saskatchewan, Canada, and there is no way we would believe the trucker's woes are caused by a drop in CD and DVD sales. We all know it's the atheists, causing a decreased demand for bibles. Simple when you think about it.

Re:Truck Drivers? (4, Insightful)

lytfyre (1518695) | more than 4 years ago | (#27627685)

I'm from Saskatchewan, Canada, and somehow we have the only ISP in Canada not thoroughly devoted to screwing the customer. Who would have thought that a government owned telecom would actually end up LESS scummy than the commercial alternatives?

Re:Truck Drivers? (3, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624659)

I know for a fact that stricter copyright laws will NOT be saving any jobs in the trucking industry.

Well, shipping bits pressed into plastic disks on the highways in trucks certainly requires more truckers than delivering those same bits over the net, but the point here is that truckers hauling disks around are a misallocation of transportation capabilities. You can't ship lumber and washing machines over the net, so it makes more sense for truckers to be hauling those goods instead.

-jcr

Re:Truck Drivers? (2, Insightful)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 4 years ago | (#27625293)

Especially the bulky boxes and advertising that go with those disks. And especially when the first few patches are actually _larger_ than the original disks.

I would love to see all game and software distribution restricted to standard CD case size, just for enironmental reasons. I can see having a recyclable plastic case to protect it, but who needs those artifically long DVD boxes?

Re:Truck Drivers? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27626393)

Just so you know, yor username is above the text of your post. You don't need to sign it at the end of every post. However, if you really feel that you must put this 'signature' at the end of every post you make, perhaps you will consider using it as your signature instead of 'Trying to child-proof the world makes us neglect the more important task of world-proofing the child.'?

Re:Truck Drivers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27624839)

1. Piracy is what happens off the coast of Somalia. The entertainment industry even went as far to PROMOTE real piracy as being "cool" with the Johnny Depp movies!

2. Record companies and movie studios can take an old product, release an "anniversary" special edition and slap a new copyright date on it. IE: A reissue of U2's first album will say "P&C 2008 Universal-Island Records", thus extending the copyright FOREVER if they wanted.

3. CD/Downloads/DVD/BluRay etc cost too much. $20 for a CD? $26 for a DVD? 99Â for an MP3? TOO MUCH! $40 for Changeling on BlueRay? Screw THAT! Lower the price to somewhere near REALITY and you might see customers come back...

4. ...if you already haven't alienated them with high prices, dickish moves with DRM (we haven't forgotten you, EMI and Sony, you GREEDY JACKALS). DRM on DVDs/BluRay is ASSININE!

5. Most, if not ALL albums and movies that end up available for free on the internet are sourced from promo copies sent to journalists. I see TONS of albums ahead of release dates this way. Same with movies - it was a Fox employee or person under contract to Fox that leaked the Wolverine movie! And Fox wants the downloaders to be sued! SUE THE UPLOADER! I'd like that - Fox sues one of its own for "stealing" a movie. Ha!

6. Bottomline: prices are too high, DRM must stop and, most importantly, the record companies (Warner, EMI, Sony and Universal) and the movie studios have lost ANY goodwill they might have had to bargain with. Being dicks to your customers will NOT save you.

7. $20 for a CD? I mean, COME ON!

Re:Truck Drivers? (3, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 4 years ago | (#27625667)

If these people are having THAT many meetings with government officials, they aren't talking about whether or not it will happen, but HOW it will happen.

It must be stopped. A TV campaign must be put on the air stating what happened in the U.S. and how it was passed and that the same law had failed in Canada but they haven't given up. People need to know what demon they are attempting to give birth to and how it harms the people.

Lawyers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27624129)

Lawyers, lawyers everyehre.

Re:Lawyers (3, Funny)

Scamwise (174654) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624353)

I say they should encourage piracy to make sure the lawyers always have work.

Mind you if I have to choose between truck drivers and lawyers...

Jobs (4, Insightful)

Wellington Grey (942717) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624141)

even claiming that the current rules are costing jobs to truck drivers delivering CDs and DVDs.

You know what costs jobs? Technological change -- it's a good thing.

Re:Jobs (3, Interesting)

davester666 (731373) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624203)

But the tubes have to go a longer way here in Canada, so the cable and telephone monopolies naturally made them smaller. That's why we have bandwidth caps. That's why we still need truck drivers to deliver physical media!

Re:Jobs (3, Funny)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624235)

See... you backwards Canadians. They made the tubes out of metal, didn't they? They could have made the tubes smaller, and made them out of glass. Glass tubes are more slippery and let the packets go through faster.

Though I admit that a moose could probably do more damage stumbling over a glass tube than a metal one.

Re:Jobs (2, Funny)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624501)

Glass tubes are more slippery and let the packets go through faster.

Don't forget that they need to be straight, or on a very gradual curve. Otherwise the 1's and 0's can start clogging up the tubes, especially if its looped.

Re:Jobs (2, Funny)

Merls the Sneaky (1031058) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624209)

Fuck! Time to burn all those computers to ensure more accountant, science, mathmatics, physics, secretarial jobs don't get "lost".

Re:Jobs (2, Insightful)

skreeech (221390) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624389)

I've met people from accounting firms who have paperless offices. Computers probably increased employment in accounting because more could be done at reasonable cost.

Re:Jobs (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624735)

Whooosh...

Re:Jobs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27627481)

What makes you think skreeech didn't "get" Merls' joke and wasn't just adding support for his point?

I think you've prematurely whooshed. There are probably pills for that.

Re:Jobs (5, Funny)

Naturalis Philosopho (1160697) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624271)

Technological change is most definitely not a good thing. Those stinking truck drivers and their trucks have ruined my career as a stage coach driver!

Re:Jobs (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624721)

You did leave out the most important part: ...because it creates even more new jobs.

People think that closing down companies with outdated business models only destroys jobs. But they never seem to see, that in nature, available resources always are used again quickly. Someone else will fill the whole. Pressure equalizes. And the people will find work again. And sometimes, wonderful things happen too. Like someone of those people having the time and motivation to start his own successful company with something completely new, and filling the gap with it.

Oh technology, let me count the ways I hate you... (1)

tiananmen tank man (979067) | more than 4 years ago | (#27626227)

The past: Technology has created the horseless carrige. Physical items are moved around more effieciently. Horseshoe repairmen are out of jobs

The present: Technology has created the digital age. Information is reproduced and spread about more efficiently. The middlemen who use to reproduce (making records/cds) and spread (market and distribute) this information are losing their jobs.

The furture: Technology has created a device that clones physical items like food. Physical items are reproduced more efficiently. If the present is any indication, the people who use to create these physical items will be trying to use the law to prevent society from freely reproducing these physical items.

I agree copyright is a good thing for society, but technology has made its current length unreasonable

Simple fix (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27624153)

Simple fix: faster broadband, then re-train the DC truck drivers into hard disk truck drivers.

Re:Simple fix (1)

Z00L00K (682162) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624595)

And soon they will transport solid state disks instead.

The catch with copyright laws is that the amount of fair use seems to be cut down bit by bit for every new release.

I'm still of the opinion that there shall be limitations on copyright:

  • Copyright to expire five years after the creator's death.
  • Copyright can only be held by creator as a person, not by a company and never be transferred to another person.
  • If you organize a religion you shall not be able to claim copyright on any works related to the religion.

Re:Simple fix (1)

endymion.nz (1093595) | more than 4 years ago | (#27626053)

I think you should amend your last point. If you organise a religion, and claim tax relief, you should not be able to claim copyright on works related to the religion. I don't give a fuck if some nutjob wants to copyright their cult texts but it becomes a different story when they are receiving government subsidy.

I say lets cut off their content... (3, Interesting)

Wacky_Wookie (683151) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624157)

If these media companies keep this shit up, I think a lot of creative people will stop providing them with content.

It would be fun to form a mass co-op type business, pool everyone's cash and buy up as many band contracts as possible just to keep them off the major labels.

You are a bit late. (4, Informative)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624291)

A number of popular names have started doing that already. Nine Inch Nails, Radiohead, and lots more.

Re:You are a bit late. (4, Interesting)

Wacky_Wookie (683151) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624369)

Yes, I know, and I think it is a step in the right direction. The thing is that Radiohead, N.I.N. and co. all went through the "system" first. I can't wait till a significant portion of the worlds popular artists have NEVER had a major label contract. Labels may never die completely, but they will be left with the Britney Spears and Jonas Brothers markets only, and even then they really won't care about music sales, as all the profit in that market is merchandise anyway.

A membership based record store would be interesting, kind of like the old Colombia House mail order thing, put a physical store. Charge a flat-rate for membership, then have the music for sale at 75% off. If you made it so everyone got one free CD a month, I bet a lot of people would pick up a few albums just 'cus they were in the store anyway to get their "Free" CD.

One of the reasons the old model is dying (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624395)

is that the recording companies can no longer force people to buy a whole album (CD) to get one or two good songs. People are paying a buck or so for individual songs, and just passing up the bad ones. So the recording companies' revenue goes down proportionately... as it should. But they want to keep forcing you to buy a CD.

The old model of "let's spend millions promoting this artist, then sell 6 million CDs at $20 each" just won't wash anymore. But they don't want to accept that. Well, that makes them dinosaurs.

Re:One of the reasons the old model is dying (3, Interesting)

Wacky_Wookie (683151) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624447)

Oh I completely agree!

I think the other bonus now is that artists are (or will) be working harder at making a whole album again since people CAN buy single songs on iTunes/online now. Live show are getting better again too. I detect more effort being put into live shows now at ALL levels of musical fame. The whole concept of playing live only because you are supporting and promoting an album is pretty silly for most types of music anyway.

Re:One of the reasons the old model is dying (2, Funny)

epine (68316) | more than 4 years ago | (#27626905)

can no longer force people to buy a whole album (CD) to get one or two good songs

Yeah, you just want that Money song, they charge you the moon.

Re:You are a bit late. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27625111)

The John Butler Trio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Butler_Trio have made No. 1 album in Australia (twice!) on their own record label.

Re:You are a bit late. (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27625317)

I found this Jamendo site recently, free music from independant artists...50% of advertising revenue goes to artists and 100% of all donations made.

Sounds like workable model.

Will be curious how it all turns out.

Re:You are a bit late. (1)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624405)

It's an admirable effort. Unfortunately the industry can always go find the next teen sensation... with a few hundred thousand bucks worth of marketing, they seem to be able to sell anyone's crap these days.

Re:I say lets cut off their content... (4, Insightful)

what about (730877) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624379)

But thanks to copyright extended to more than a life after the artist death, RIAA will enjoy money anyway.

However, I think that the only way to wake up the "common person" to the current abuse of copyright by RIAA is for RIAA to be even more abusive.
History tell us that only after tyrants have done truly outrageus act then the people will stand up, not earlier (unfortunately).

Enjoy your music :-)

Re:I say lets cut off their content... (1)

Kabuthunk (972557) | more than 4 years ago | (#27627599)

Unfortunately, I honestly don't believethat even after a "truly outrageous act", the people will do anything whatsoever. They will continue to vote for the same people, and let whatever happens... happens. At least I voted for one of the 'non-typical' parties that might not be going along with things so readily. They got zero seats. So my opinions are meaningless to society anyway it seems.

Not that it matters... I believe all parties will roll over for big-money, regardless of their actual goals and/or stances.

Re:I say lets cut off their content... (5, Insightful)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624689)

Actually, it's not the media companies.

The problem is that the last two WIPO treaties require DMCA style laws. Pretty much any country that doesn't implement those will end up being passed over in other crap that the international community does. It will hurt trade and cause financial issues.

The American DMCA provisions are more or less taken straight from the requirements of the WIPO Copyright Treaty or WTC [wipo.int] and the WPPT or WIPO Performances and Phonograms Treaty [wipo.int] with the exception of penalties and a few extremes. Canada signed onto both of the treaties on 12/22/1997. Focusing on the media companies will only result in disappointed losses in the fight. You need to get the government (your local government as well as other country's governments) to change the treaties and international obligations to them to reflect the will of your people.

You or I or anyone can complain about Disney or Warner bros or whatever. They are as powerful as they are in this fight because they are attempting to get the governments of countries to make good on treaties that almost all countries in the world have signed an obligation to. It's the reason that the pirate bay just got into trouble, it's the reason why their laws are being changed and why charges were being brought against a group of people on the behalf of people and corporations that most likely don't even have offices in the country.

Sure, keep believing media corps are evil. I'm not asking you or anyone else to embrace them. I'm asking people to actually pay attention to where this crap is coming from so that we don't dick around with seemingly related issues that end up being a dead end. The treaties need to be adjusted-changes-destroyed-whatever before this threat goes away. When I can say Canada or any other country has to pass a law because a treaty they signed obligated them to, no matter how much it looks like I am the bad guy, I'm more or less only reminding those countries of their obligations.

It would be fun to form a mass co-op type business, pool everyone's cash and buy up as many band contracts as possible just to keep them off the major labels.

While it would be fun, that's all it would be "for fun". Or at least until the right crap was changed out. Even if "big media" had no clients, they could/would still push for the treaties to be implemented.

Re:I say lets cut off their content... (1)

Lloyd_Bryant (73136) | more than 4 years ago | (#27625489)

Actually, there's nothing wrong with the treaties. The issue is with the implementation of the laws by the governments.

For instance, the U.S. DMCA would be a reasonable law, if it actually had some penalties for misuse. As it is, various companies have routinely abused the DMCA (using it for trademarks, sending a new DMCA notice after a counter notice has been filed, etc).

The *only* penalty for misuse specified in the law is a possible charge of perjury for an attorney - a penalty that will never be applied, unless some lawyer is very high on a U.S. Attorney's shit list.

Now imagine that the *company* responsible for the DMCA notice could be subject to a substantial penalty every time it misuses that law (preferably a civil remedy, since for criminal penalties we have to wait for the government's attorneys to act).

Re:I say lets cut off their content... (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 4 years ago | (#27625877)

Well, while I agree that the implementation needs work, it's the lack of "direction" the treaties offer and the quality of politicians nowadays generally means we won't get much more then they have to give. That does mean laws like the DMCA that doesn't really consider abuse.

Anyways, the treaties could clear a lot of the issues we are seeing up with a well rounded minimum set of "fair use" or "fair dealings" guidelines that allow for the environment to exist in which we see a lot of the abuses. Seriously, if the DMCA actually said Parody, sampling, fixing broken DRM or outdated technologies, using hardware for purposed other then what the manufacturer intended, and any tech designed to do that without creating an copyright infringement was acceptable, would there be so many people upset over it? Would there be that many abuses? Now if this was written into the treaty, then the laws they make would/could reflect that. The DMCA should reflect that.

As for the abused, there actually is more then just perjury that can be done. And the perjury in the slip that they certify isn't a "your breaking the law if your wrong" it's a "I have reasonable belief that what I claim is accurate". What this means is, if it is my copyright in question and it does turn out that your use is considered "fair use", neither of us are in trouble. But if it's not my copyright and I claim it is to harm you, then I can be charged with perjury. But people overlook the other aspect of that. If I do do something to harm you that is fraudulent, then you can sue me. It doesn't matter if the DMCA law doesn't say you can, what matters is that it doesn't say you cannot.

Of course that costs money and most wouldn't have enough to play. However, going back to the treaties, if it's worded to catch that, then the laws implemented because of them would reflect it.

I still believe the place to move is on the treaties. Canada seems to be in a pretty strong position to make a few changes with a lot of Hollywood movies and such being made there because it's cheaper and all. But on a side note, even the US or England or whoever could possible makes the changes. Especially if the people of those countries are behind them.

Re:I say lets cut off their content... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27625927)

...and who lobbied the governments to negotiate and sign those agreements? It sure as hell wasn't the truck driver's union.

Re:I say lets cut off their content... (1)

dimeglio (456244) | more than 4 years ago | (#27626677)

I believe Taiwan has not signed the WIPO treaties and are doing just fine. In fact, they are booming economically. They remain very creative even if they have mastered the art of reproducing originals at a lesser cost (or bootlegging).

Re:I say lets cut off their content... (1)

failedlogic (627314) | more than 4 years ago | (#27626715)

If this is the case we're even more screwed. I'm sure the same groups of companies represented by the lobbiest have already discussed their reasons to each of the WIPO members that have signed the treaty. Our only opportunity for some sanity in this is to write to our MPs and the Prime Minister to demand fair consume, Internet and technology oriented copyright laws.

I want more openness in all Canadian government affairs. I want cameras w/ sound - all real time and no editing- of any and all of the 'closed door' meetings between politicians and lobbiests. I'd REALLY be interested in hearing what they have to say and wether there is any opposition in the arguments from the politicians or if they always fully agree. I've always found it too strong a coincidence that whatever the lobbiest lobbies for is exactly what policy most any government decides is the best COA.

Re:I say lets cut off their content... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27627241)

The problem isn't the WIPO treaty, the problem is the implementation... The anti-circumvention laws should be tied to distribution. Circumventing a digital lock to enjoy legally purchased digital content should never be illegal. Nor should it be illegal to circumvent to exercise fair use or fair dealing rights. Circumventing to share with my 500 000 friends on Bittorrent however is another issue and circumventing in order to make money without paying the artist is already illegal. No need to change the laws for that.

Re:I say lets cut off their content... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27626757)

It would be fun to form a mass co-op type business, pool everyone's cash and buy up as many band contracts as possible just to keep them off the major labels.

Why not move to a patronage system where musicians are directly commissioned by the masses to create music. The artist would get money up front, and the world would get to do whatever they wanted with the music once it was released. For smaller name artists there could be mutual fund style investments (specific types of music e.g.) where donations are pooled as you suggested.

If enough people followed this model the return on the investment need not be more than the release of the music itself. Large investors might get concert bonuses or something. What do you think? Would this cut out the RIAA entirely?

Re:I say lets cut off their content... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27626799)

Call me cynical, but I'd be willing to bet there are quite a few individuals out there who'd be willing to sell their less-than-mediocre works to these content tyrants. When they do, these tyrants will market their content successfully and reap the profits, or hell, just keep remaking and reusing material, much like they've been doing.

Hopefully, people will just stop doing business with them altogether until their influence(see money) they use over our governments eventually runs out.

pirate bay guys got jail time (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27624223)

sucked to everyone claiming they would get away with their crimes.

you'll see this on /. in about a week when kdawson catches up with main stream media.

Re:pirate bay guys got jail time (1)

endymion.nz (1093595) | more than 4 years ago | (#27626091)

What they did is not actually illegal in Sweden, and this verdict was delivered by the lowest court. Sucks to be you not knowing what 'appeal' means.

Global Consumer RIAA needed maybe? (2, Interesting)

Pyrmontvillage (1535329) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624227)

Maybe its time for a global over arching consumer group on a par with RIAA, to coordinate a global push back. RIAA and its associated entities besides having the cash have better global coordination. There seem to be disparate consumer type groups that operate country by country, lacking cash and proper media profiles... Just a though anyway

Huh? Ever heard of the EFF? (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624317)

And I bet you haven't contributed anything to them either. Well, get off your butt and go here:

https://secure.eff.org/site/Donation2?idb=138949259&df_id=1220&1220.donation=form1 [eff.org]

to contribute. The page says "End Warrantless Wiretapping!" but it is actually a membership page. Sign the hell up and give them some money. You are not limited to their fixed amounts, they will take any donation.

I admit they are not Canadian... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624333)

but I imagine that if they got enough support from Canadians, they would help there, too. I don't know of any reason why not.

Re:I admit they are not Canadian... (3, Informative)

Your.Master (1088569) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624467)

I can definitely think of reasons they wouldn't help in Canada, not the least of which is an entirely different legal framework within which to fight, where the US constitution does not apply and your legal rights are different (greater in some areas, lesser in others).

But, anyway, they do support a Canadian organization:

http://www.onlinerights.ca/ [onlinerights.ca]

Not formally affiliated but they are more or less the Canadian equivalent. The EFF defends rights in the US constitution which simply do not (legally) apply in Canada. The EFC defends those laid out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

That said, both of the organisations come with baggage that is not really related to the RIAA (for example, Warrantless Wiretapping). If you want to support them in opposition to the RIAA, make sure they don't disagree with you on some important principle. This goes generally for any activist or charity cause, but I feel it's important to call out that it's not a single-issue organisation.

Re:I admit they are not Canadian... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624495)

But they don't... at least the EFF doesn't, I don't know about EFC. In any case, the EFF has been staunchly adversarial to the RIAA and just about everything they are doing.

Re:Huh? Ever heard of the EFF? (1)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624419)

This is great advice. I donate what I can every year. If even a tenth of the Slashdot visitor population did the same, I'd feel a lot better about things.

If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (1)

Cordath (581672) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624237)

Then maybe the media levy that is currently distributed amongst artists should also be distributed to truckers too?

Problem solved.

Long story short, Canada doesn't have a copyright problem. Tweak the levies if you want, but don't blow a good thing. DMCA style laws haven't worked anywhere else they've been implemented. The Canadian levy system shows far more promise. Heck, maybe the U.S. should be adopting our levy system instead of trying to make us adopt their horribly broken and ineffectual laws!

Re:If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (5, Insightful)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624337)

the levy system most certainly doesn't work. you end up paying for something you don't want. I, for example don't ever wish to purchase a top 40 cd. but due to the levy system if i purchased a blank cd in canada my money would be funneled directly to the very people i don't want it to even through i've never downloaded anything that belongs to them.

yes, perfect system indeed.

Re:If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (1)

skreeech (221390) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624415)

The blank CDs could be packaged up with a little art and levies(levi?) going to the source that you most like to download. Gotta stay honest though and buy spindle for both your porn and underground music.

Re:If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27624589)

the levy system most certainly doesn't work. you end up paying for something you don't want. I, for example don't ever wish to purchase a top 40 cd. but due to the levy system if i purchased a blank cd in canada my money would be funneled directly to the very people i don't want it to even through i've never downloaded anything that belongs to them.

yes, perfect system indeed.

Conversly, after buying blank CDs I remember to go download big label music.

Re:If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (1)

djmurdoch (306849) | more than 4 years ago | (#27625287)

I, for example don't ever wish to purchase a top 40 cd. but due to the levy system if i purchased a blank cd in canada my money would be funneled directly to the very people i don't want it to even through i've never downloaded anything that belongs to them.

This is not very accurate. Your money will go to the copyright collective, and be distributed by it. 60% goes to the songwriters and publishers, 23% to Canadian performers, and 17% to Canadian record companies (actually mostly subsidiaries of multinationals). The distribution depends on airplay and sales, so Canadian top 40 artists will get more money than obscure ones, but most of the top 40 performers aren't Canadian, so they'll get none of it. (Whoever owns the rights to their songs will get a share, though.)

The theory is that copying should roughly match sales, so the fact that the popular artists get more just reflects the fact that there are lots of other people downloading them. Those people with bad taste are the ones whose levies go to the top 40 artists. Yours go to whoever you tend to buy and listen to on the radio.

Now, if you never buy music, and the radio never plays music you like, then you won't affect the distribution, but most downloaders do actually purchase music too, so they do tend to have an effect on where the money goes. If you're not one of them, you don't really have much right to complain: you're getting the right to download for 0.29 per CD. Seems like a good deal, even if the money doesn't go to people you like.

Re:If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (1)

failedlogic (627314) | more than 4 years ago | (#27626593)

Heck, I have over 300 CDs. Of those, save for 8 albums from 4 different artists, the rest of my collection is American. Sorry, but Canadian music sucks. Most of the Canadian artists that make it to the top 40 copy the same style as the Americans.

The overwhelming reason for CANCON and the Levy are, if you buy the story, is to share our 'Canadian culture' with other Canadians and the rest of the world. Can anybody point to me exactly what is "Canadian" about Canadian music? I've yet to see any coherent definition of Canadian culture to date.

 

Re:If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (1)

Scamwise (174654) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624347)

They should also make sure they guy with the price sticker machine gets his cut, I hate to see him injured by piracy.

Huh? Don't blame us! (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624361)

WE aren't trying to get you to adopt our laws!!! Excuse me, but those are YOUR OWN companies doing that. WE don't like the DMCA any more than you do. It was sneaked past us (or most of us anyway), when we weren't looking.

And it is true that the DMCA doesn't work worth a damn, except to make things more difficult for the consumer. On the other hand, the levy system (as it has been proposed here, anyway) would not work either, since it collects money from honest people to pay for the activities of dishonest people, and the artists do not get paid either. So, in effect, the money comes from the wrong people and it goes to the wrong people.

Re:If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (2, Informative)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624423)

I don't know if paying an extra tax on recordable media counts as a "system that works."

Re:If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624717)

Unfortunately, the biggest problem with this situation is ill/mis informed or the lack of informed people.

The DMCA laws extend directly from the WPPT and WCT treaties (wipo)and Canada signed them in december of 1997 but hasn't implemented them yet. This is actually where the US originally got the DMCA from too. Now you can argue all you want that the media companies cause the treaties to have the wording and all that, I won't dispute it. The issue currently on the table is that many different countries are obligated to pass something similar to the DMCA and the media companies or the US pushing for it is a symptom not a problem. To cure the illness so to speak is to get the treaties changed so the onligations of countries who signed them are changed too.

Re:If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (2, Insightful)

djmurdoch (306849) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624785)

Signing the treaty doesn't create the obligation, it's ratifying it that does. Canada signed those treaties, but hasn't ratified them. It's like the US position regarding the Kyoto Protocol, or the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child: signed, but not ratified, so not bound by the terms of the treaty.

Re:If truck drivers are losing their jobs.... (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 4 years ago | (#27625119)

The obligation isn't as much ratifying it as it is economic advantages of being party to the treaty. Like I said, your fighting the wrong fights. But hey, don't listen to me and continue griping every 6 months or so when it comes back up again and again because politicians in Canada see it as somehow beneficial to get on board with most of the rest of the world every time the entertainment industry of any country brings it to their attention.

BTW, I didn't say Canada was obligated to them, I said many other countries were. This puts Canada at a disadvantage on some areas just like Kyoto and the convention on child right, puts Canada or the world court does for the US. You can kill off ever media company in the world and as long as those treaties are there, it will be brought up again and again.

Here's an idea... (5, Insightful)

symbolic (11752) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624383)

Stop funding them. More and more artists are starting to see the light - that even if they give away their new albums online, and make their money via live concerts, they will *still* make more than they are through these usurious contracts they have with Big Media, Inc.

If people would just stop buying RIAA-produced crap (and stop stealing it!), the problem would eventually solve itself. It's no secret that they'll need to be dragged kicking and screaming back to this thing we all know as 'reality,' but it's gotta happen sooner or later. Right now we're just prolonging the agony for everyone.

Re:Here's an idea... (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624773)

If people would just stop buying RIAA-produced crap (and stop stealing it!), the problem would eventually solve itself.

That doesn't really work. Sure, stop crap releases from artists signed to a RIAA label. But that doesn't stop sales for the good artists signed to RIAA labels, of which there are plenty.

Do you really mean "stop buying crap and good releases from RIAA-signed artists"?

Re:Here's an idea... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27625631)

Does not work that way. Reason is they the Record, Movies, TV, that is the Recorded Entertainment Industry has two mandates.

1. Keep sales up.
2. Find new forms of getting money.

That number 2 is what I see this Lobbying effort is about. If they could ask us Canadian to pay directly into their bank accounts they would. Come to think of it we do on recording media tax.

So only answer is to make sure if the law is passed their sales drop to zero and they have to figure out why their warehouses are full of items.

Re:Here's an idea... (1)

mpe (36238) | more than 4 years ago | (#27627591)

If people would just stop buying RIAA-produced crap (and stop stealing it!),

If a significent number of people did stop buying it then they'd have their lobbiests claim that this was "proof" of piracy to try and get more extreme laws passed.

the problem would eventually solve itself.

How much damage will be done before that happens?

Great for the Environment (4, Insightful)

skreeech (221390) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624443)

Fewer trucks on the road and fewer CDs being smelted cannot possibly be a bad thing in the big picture. Not a big impact but would positive contribution if it was not BS trying to pass a law.

What they want is illegal in Canada (1)

HannethCom (585323) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624637)

The CRIA and CMPDA don't seem to understand is that the basis of the business law in Canada requires that when you pay for something, you get something in return. Either a physical form, a license, or a service.

When you buy a product, you have complete ownership of that product to do with what you want. Now the companies can set what the warranty covers, but they can't control what you do with it.

Because of the greed of the Music and Film industries this wasn't going to work for them because they wanted to control public showing. Part of Canadian law covers that in the form of purchasing a license.

This allowed them to license the property for private, or various forms of publish showing. The only problem is you own the license to that performance, not the media it was originally delivered on.

If I were to download a copy of the blu-ray versions of the movies I own on DVD, that's not illegal because media and format are physical things, I own a license to watch that movie already, it doesn't matter how I get the physical form of it.

There is the special case Rental License which is paying for the ability to borrow a license someone else owns for a set period of time. There are quite a few restrictions put on rentals to prevent the abuse that the CRIA and CMPDA have tried over the years.

What the music and video industries have been able to do in other countries is take your money, but give nothing in return. You are paying for the possibility that they might let you listen/watch what you paid for, you have no ownership, license, or rental.

Business law requires that you either get ownership, a license, or a rental license. All business law is predicated on that. Any modifications to those rules is unconstitutional and is a criminal offense. If this rule was somehow overruled, it would invalidate all business law in Canada.

Another interesting aspect of this basis of law is that you also can't get anything for free. To get a product, license, or rental, you have to pay, or do something for it.

This is one of the reasons why a lot of these "free" contest have skill testing questions before you can win the prise, or other forms of "work". In answering the question, you have done some work, to get the prise.

Also many cars have been sold for a cent because you can't just give a friend a car, no matter what shape it's in. Though now, may only apply to BC, a law has been passed that you have to pay at least $50 for a car. The government wants some tax money.

All this for "entertainment" (1)

FranTaylor (164577) | more than 4 years ago | (#27624673)

They treat this like it's a matter of national security.

For goodness sake, it's entertainment!

Why can't they focus this hard on things that actually matter to the health and success of their people?

Of course we in the US are just as guilty.

Re:All this for "entertainment" (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 4 years ago | (#27625385)

They treat this like it's a matter of national security.

For goodness sake, it's entertainment!

      Some would argue that it's not even entertainment... more like - "torture"?

      I certainly stopped going to the movies and listening to the radio a long time ago, and not because I'm downloading the content online. The internet IS to blame, but because I have found OTHER forms of entertainment. Here I can laugh at the stupidity of my fellow man (there's no shortage) when I want, or educate myself by watching MIT or Berkeley courses online, or troll forums. I don't have to wait in line with obnoxious teenagers, pay for overpriced stale popcorn and sticky sodas, sit in dirty seats and be interrupted by cell phones and childish behavior.

Re:All this for "entertainment" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27626585)

The technologies needed to restrict distribution of information to enforce copyright law are pretty much exactly the same as the technologies required to restricit distribution of information to enforce the censorship whims of a despotic police state.

In both cases, person A is trying to prevent person X passing information to person Y. They're pretty much indistinguishable at the 01010101 level.

So, governments play along with the small-barking-dog entertainment industry Useful Idiots [wikipedia.org] because it gives them a handy excuse to implement architectures of information control necessary to build a horrible authoritarian dystopia.

Dear Mr.Harper (1)

gaderael (1081429) | more than 4 years ago | (#27625033)

A short list of things more important right now:

Why our troops are in Afganistan (which you say is unwinnable [www.cbc.ca]
Our Economy
The Health Care system
Our relationship with the US and the EU
Food Safety [www.cbc.ca]

Your party is slipping in the polls again. Most people will see this as a waste of time and tax payer money, just like last time.

Sincerely,
A Canadien Taxpayer

Broken window fallacy (4, Funny)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 4 years ago | (#27625331)

even claiming that the current rules are costing jobs to truck drivers delivering CDs and DVDs."

      This is a fun game!

      I will see your "jobless CD and DVD delivering truck drivers", and raise you one "dependence on foreign oil funds terrorism". So see, distributing digital material online actually reduces global terrorism and is thus a "goof thing"! Your move.

W00T fp (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27625491)

GOODBYE...SHE HAD would be a bad AND OTHER PARTY people already; I'm JOIN THE GNAA!! suufering *BSD but now they're of the above The choosing

...Government Ministers for ... Microsoft... (1)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 4 years ago | (#27625645)

> ...Government Ministers for CRIA, CMPDA, and Microsoft...

Canada has a Minister for Microsoft?

Arseholes (1)

Sj0 (472011) | more than 4 years ago | (#27625987)

You know what pisses me off?

The copyright industry is trying to have it both ways.

Copyright is supposed to be a partnership between the public and creators. It's supposed to be a 2-way thing.

As much as the copyright holders love to bitch about how piracy is theft, so is what they're doing. They've stolen 50 years of our culture and locked it away in a vault so they can eke out a few dollars by opening the vault every few years. They're literally stealing money from us every time we buy a CD or hard disk, but they don't want to deal with the fact that we get to have music for that tax. Now, they want to have more control over expression than copyright ever intended, and they want to have it longer than ever before.

If these companies want all these things, if they want to be able to shut down free speech or control all speech, fine. Let's make the copyright term 5 years. If they want legislation to mandate that they get to have a chip in my computer telling me what I can and cannot watch, then the trade-off should be that the stuff they have power over should be incredibly fleeting. The idea of giving them absolute control over every computer in the country, then giving them that control for 100 or 150 years is utterly against the idea of copyright.

Um... (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#27626763)

Please Canada take a look at the USA and see how between software patents, the DMCA, and other draconian legislation, our tech sector has been quickly crumbling.

Allow me to help... (0, Flamebait)

PinchDuck (199974) | more than 4 years ago | (#27626815)

Dear Canadian Government Officials:
Your Corporate Overlords in the United States DEMAND you pass this legislation immediately! We order our continental second-class citizens to bow to our dictates. If you do not, it will jeopardize your status as our vassal and psychological 51st state. Disobey your American Corporate Overlords at your own peril. Obey!

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

That should do the trick.

YES take them off the net then get draconian laws (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27627071)

A) get bell canada to double cost of internet
- this takes voices off the net in droves
B) wait till iggy got power and made peace with lyin brian mulroney
- this makes the liberals and conservatives buddies and makes thngs JUST like a democrat and republic dum dum election event as in bribe both sides and get what you want.
C) Continue to get the Harper govt to sneak in other legislation with other laws until you jig saw n the worst piece of copyright laws you can that will destroy the economy.

ANYONE that says Hollywood is good for the world should be shot as a traitor to there country.
Anyone touting these laws is a traitor.

What can *I* do? (2, Insightful)

Internalist (928097) | more than 4 years ago | (#27627245)

I live in Ottawa and want to do something more than write a letter that I know will be ignored to a local MP who I know is not in line with my position anyway. While I'm interested in law & policy as it applies to this domain, it's definitely not in my sphere of knowledge.

Do /.ers have any suggestions about what I can do to fight this, or good ways to raise awareness?

Maybe we should tell the CRIA (2, Informative)

canwaf (240401) | more than 4 years ago | (#27627419)

Maybe someone should tell the CRIA that "grassroots" campaigns coming from paid staffers is called astroturf.

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