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Microsoft Leaks Windows 7 RC Date — Before May 5

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the don't-tell-anybody-it's-a-secret dept.

Operating Systems 321

CWmike writes "Microsoft will deliver a release candidate of Windows 7 in about two weeks, the company's Web site revealed Saturday. According to a page posted on Microsoft's partner program site, Windows 7 Release Candidate (RC) may be available to paying subscribers to Microsoft's developer and IT services before May 5. Partners will be allowed to download the release candidate on that date, the first Tuesday of the month. 'Partners: If you have a subscription to MSDN or TechNet, you can download Windows 7 RC now,' the page read Saturday afternoon. 'Otherwise, you can download Windows 7 RC starting May 5, 2009.' The link to the download, however, shunted users to the TechNet download page, which did not list Windows 7 RC as one of the available files. This is the second time in just over three weeks that Microsoft's Web site has leaked information about Windows 7 RC. Accidental, or buzz-builder?"

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321 comments

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Hmm (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27631579)

"... be available to paying subscribers to Microsoft's developer and IT services..."

Welcome to Redmond, where you have to be a paying member to download a free RC.

Re:Hmm (4, Informative)

Briareos (21163) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631981)

Welcome to Redmond, where you have to be a paying member to download a free RC.

Early, or did you miss the 'Otherwise, you can download Windows 7 RC starting May 5, 2009.' in the summary?

Then again - I just tried our MSDN login and, like the article said, there's just the old beta to download.

np: Jared Emerson-Johnson - Attack The Dog (Sam & Max Season One OST (Disc 1))

Re:Hmm (-1, Troll)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632669)

The wallpapers of an extra feminine Michael Jackson on your homepage really creep me out.

Re:Hmm (3, Funny)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632221)

Uhhh... yeah... Redmond the only place that offers its paying premium customers early access to its products and services before the general public.

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632339)

Why shouldn't they? Microsoft releases products for sale while they are still beta. They are desperate to overcome the stigma of Vista. A simplified face on top of kludgy crap code won't do it though.

Re:Hmm (4, Informative)

Z80xxc! (1111479) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632501)

Last I checked, you have to pay to download iPhone Beta 3.0.

Re:Hmm (4, Funny)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632667)

Last I checked, you have to pay to download iPhone Beta 3.0.

Watch it buster. You wanna be careful who you set off around here. I suppose you think you're making a point with that remark just because it's true.

Re:Hmm (1)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632801)

My reply somehow got orphaned when the OP got modded into oblivion.

In context it wouldn't need the /sarcasm tags that are now required.

That's what I get for not quoting the parent in my post.

There's an idea for slashdot. Auto Quote. If something is modded 4/5 but the parent isn't visible then it should auto quote if the parent is less than 3 lines.

Windows Se7en... (3, Funny)

nawcom (941663) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631589)

Lust.

Gluttony.

Greed.

Sloth.

Wrath.

Envy.

Pride.

Developers.

Developers.

Developers.

Developers.

Developers.

Developers.

Developers.

Developers.

Re:Windows Se7en... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27631651)

Revised list:

- Developers!
- Developers!
- Greed
- Developers!
- Wrath
- Envy
- Developers!

Re:Windows Se7en... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27631963)

1? Come on that's hilarious.

Re:Windows Se7en... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632053)

Are you listing out hell.co.nz pizza menu?

Re:Windows Se7en... (4, Funny)

windsurfer619 (958212) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632059)

And in typical Microsoft fashion, you've gone and bloated the number seven to be eight "Developers.".

buzz builder? (1, Troll)

Threni (635302) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631595)

Dunno what that is, but I'm not sure there's much point in frustrating potential downloaders. Microsoft hasn't had much success with any OSes released since 2002 so it's probably not wise to dick people around too much. I'm posting this from Ubuntu because Microsoft made it impossible for me to copy files around between USB keys, dvds and hard disks with anything like the speed of XP for reasons they've never explained.

Re:buzz builder? (5, Funny)

Citizen of Earth (569446) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631655)

Microsoft made it impossible for me to copy files around between USB keys, dvds and hard disks with anything like the speed of XP for reasons they've never explained.

Well, it takes time to analyze the content you are copying and report it to the RIAA.

Re:buzz builder? (0, Redundant)

Foredecker (161844) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632213)

Well, it takes time to analyze the content you are copying and report it to the RIAA.

That is just so stupid. If your going to make something up - at least make something up that is plausible.

Re:buzz builder? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632309)

It's called humor.

Re:buzz builder? (1, Flamebait)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632703)

Right. It's not like Microsoft would ever do anything like change the way certain files are handled by the OS or hardware based upon whether the contents of those files could possibly have been copyrighted.

Re:buzz builder? (5, Funny)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631669)

Microsoft hasn't had much success with any OSes released since 2002 so it's probably not wise to dick people around too much.

But this time it's going to be perfect. They promised!

Re:buzz builder? (2, Insightful)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631713)

Well, next time, we're going to try their OS in a nice VM where we can test such behavior... while using Ubuntu or other choice Linux distro.

Re:buzz builder? (4, Insightful)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632259)

Well, next time, we're going to try their OS in a nice VM where we can test such behavior... while using Ubuntu or other choice Linux distro.

Amen. Next time I'm installing Windows is the next release that doesn't overwrite GRUB without asking.

Warms my heart (4, Funny)

Mateo_LeFou (859634) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632697)

Glad to see you're joining the "I'm never installing Windows again" club.

Actually we did explain it. (5, Informative)

bhpaddock (830350) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631749)

http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2008/02/04/2826167.aspx [technet.com]

XP hid the dialog before the copy was really finished. Vista changed this so you wouldn't pull out a USB key before the operation had finished.

Vista RTM had some copy performance issues but SP1 fixed those, and during Win7 there was a significant focus on improving copy / move / delete performance.

Re:Actually we did explain it. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632145)

Ok people, nothing special here, just a win7 fanboy. move along... *shove*

Re:Actually we did explain it. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632545)

SP1 did NOT fix the copy performance issues. Dumbass.

Re:Actually we did explain it. (-1, Troll)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632699)

Microsoft sucks, FYI.

Re:buzz builder? (2, Insightful)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631785)

No, buzz builder is the part Slashdot is playing.

Re:buzz builder? (1)

trawg (308495) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632037)

Heh, how do you define success? I think it's different to how I do it.

Further, pretty much everyone that I've spoken to that has tried Win7 (even Vista-haters) have said it is far and away better than at least Vista and have certainly given me the impression that it's going to be a worthy successor to XP.

Windows 7 synopsis (5, Interesting)

Statecraftsman (718862) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631663)

The only reason to run Windows 7 is to know what the non-free software world is doing but you can just watch online videos to find that out. I recently did this and here are my impressions in bullet form:

* Windows 7 is a lot like Vista
* next desktop background feature is kind of cool but i saw it in kde4
* new task bar - makes it easier to switch to mac and more annoying to actually switch tasks using a mouse
* control panel still in the new harder to deal with style but not sure if it still loads piecemeal like Vista
* Libraries are introduced as another way to segment your data in an annoying and OS-locked-in way.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27631701)

Not sure what your problem is with the control panel; in XP it was just a list of items, hardly the pinnacle of usability. The new control panel is categorized and searchable, either from the start menu or the control panel folder. I've never been hard pressed to find a setting.

And if all that doesn't do it for you, you still have the option of looking at the old XP list.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (1)

Weedhopper (168515) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631823)

And if all that doesn't do it for you, you still have the option of looking at the old XP list.

No, you don't, or if there is, it's not easily user discoverable.

Windows lists down. When I get a list view on Win7, I get 3 columns, which would be okay, I suppose, but it tracks across rows, whic is an incredibly dumb way to organize that list. Its much easier to find something alphabetically in a list form than a 3 column paragraph form.

The way its done now, I have to read several columns until I find what I want. It's a very slow search pattern.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (1)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631935)

No, you don't [have the option of using the classic style Control Panel], or if there is, it's not easily user discoverable.

Windows lists down. When I get a list view on Win7, I get 3 columns, which would be okay, I suppose, but it tracks across rows, which is an incredibly dumb way to organize that list.

It doesn't always use three columns -- it uses as many as it can fit. If you narrow the window so that only one column can fit, you get an alphabetical list.

It's really pathetic that the Control Panel, which has worked fine in every other version of Windows, now requires a work-around to navigate.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (3, Insightful)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632161)

Why are people still using the Control Panel?

If I want to uninstall a program I hit the start button and type "uninstall" And there it is on my start menu "Control Panel -> Uninstall a Program"

If I want to view network connections I type in "Network Connections" and I get "View Network Connections"

Is the control panel easy to navigate? Not with the names I remember from XP but in some cases the new names actually do make more sense even if I can't find them. "Add/Remove Programs" has become "Programs\Uninstall" or using hte list mode "Programs and Features".

Windows 7's Control panel much easier to navigate than XP's and much much easier to navigate than Vista's.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (1, Informative)

goltzc (1284524) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632283)

Typing something into a command prompt sounds a lot like the kind of "usability" that gets us linux people in trouble with the masses.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632467)

Typing something into a command prompt sounds a lot like the kind of "usability" that gets us linux people in trouble with the masses.

There is a difference between typing "uninstall" and typing "sudo apt-uninstall (or is it apt-remove?) ***".

While you could argue that sudo is required to prove I am an administrator (and therefore not a part of the command) and apt-uninstall/remove is no different from uninstall (remove would be a more non-techie word, and maybe linux uses it), I don't think many new users would agree.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (1)

skaet (841938) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632615)

It's not a command prompt, it's a search field (directly in the start menu, no less). I'm reasonably sure you can't fuck up a system using a search field like you can with a command prompt...

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (4, Insightful)

Anpheus (908711) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631729)

* Ubuntu 9.04 is a lot like Ubuntu 8.10
* New theme is kind of cool but still not default.
* Default panels installed are still largely useless, taskbar fills up way too easily.
* Font size still wrong when I install it, Canonical and I have a game we play called "figure out where the DPI settings are hidden." It gets less fun every year. (In Windows 7, I type "DPI" into the start menu search.)

I don't really have a counterpoint to #5, except to say that every OS'es file manager and the related abstractions are, uh... "locked in." I don't know what you expect. There's nothing stopping you from looking at all the files in a library and performing regular actions on them. And soon, hopefully, many applications will support the library abstraction as a folder path. I.e.: in Songbird, make my music library refer to the OS'es Music Library. That way I can put the music I have on my server, my laptop, etc, all referenced in one place.

I don't know how more "open" you can get with Libraries though, what's your suggestion?

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (4, Insightful)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631819)

Yes, but 9.04 is the latest twice-yearly release update. Comparing 9.04 to 8.10 as a way of justifying a comparison between Vista and Seven is extremely disingenuous. After all, Seven is supposed to be the all-new, best-ever, heaven-sent OS that is worth buying a new machine for. Even though any fool can see MS is just marketing Vista SE as "Seven", apparently in an attempt to bury Vista's public image problems. It gives them the happy side effect of being able to charge for what amounts to bugfixes, too. I'd expect that even MS' customer base has enough self-respect to be angry about this, but apparently not. We still see the fanbois out in force, rationalizing all over the tech sites. Idiots.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632065)

Considering that there was a year between 8.10 and 9.04, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu) your claim of a semi annual release comes across as dishonest at best. Expecting non trivial differences to come from a years development is not unreasonable.

After all, Seven is supposed to be the all-new, best-ever, heaven-sent OS that is worth buying a new machine for.

You are the only person I have seen claim that 7 should be worth buying a new PC. Enjoy your paranoid delusions.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632269)

It's 6 months. The release numbers signify year/month. That means 6 months (month 10 + 6 months = next year month 4). Just thought I'd point that out. Unless you go through years really quickly.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632795)

It's a reading comprehension problem he has.... Looked at wikipedia saw 8.04 was April 2008 and said...AHA!

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632813)

It's unsurprising that someone who chooses to believe that win7 is all that also believes it took a full year to get from October 2008 to Aprol 2009.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (4, Informative)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632215)

I don't know of any company on the planet that would define Windows 7 as anything but a full point upgrade.

Windows 98SE was insignificant compared to Vista -> 7.

You're putting Microsoft under unreasonable expectations for an upgrade.

As to it being the "best ever" I would agree with that sentiment. It's funny that so many people keep complaining that 7 is just a "service pack" when Vista actually is still getting service packs. Let's compare the two shall we? Take a look at Vista's SP1 and SP2. Now compare that to the changelog for Winodws 7. You might see a different focus where Service Packs SERVICE THE APPLICATION and windows 7 ADDs new features... almost like it's a new product or something. Weird huh.

Since when have service packs been expected too add hundreds of new features and not just fix bugs? By that definition no company should ever release a new product and every new version is just a service pack.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (0, Troll)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632759)

windows 7 ADDs new features.

But I don't want it to add features, I want it to run programs, fast and efficiently, and stay the fuck out of my way, and not worry about whether I've got licenses to the music on my computer, especially since most of that music I composed and recorded myself.

Why is it so hard to get an operating system to use for my digital audio workstation that I can use the way I want, on the hardware I want?

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632855)

"Since when have service packs been expected too add hundreds of new features and not just fix bugs?"

I'm going to guess MMOs did it. There is always new content in patches.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632585)

I'd expect that even MS' customer base has enough self-respect to be angry about this, but apparently not.

No, not everyone turns into a raging asshole over things that aren't that big a deal to begin with. That's you.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (1)

stonedcat (80201) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631739)

Well you've definitely won me over.

Re:Windows 7 synopsis (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632489)

The control panel in Vista/Windows 7 is *MUCH* easier to navigate, and much better-laid-out than the XP control panel.

With that complaint on your list, I can safely file you away into the "I hate change" group. You don't hate the new control panel, what you hate is that it's different than the old one-- that's fine, but it disqualifies you from reviewing an OS.

How do you reconcile a May 5th RC date with a 2010 (2, Insightful)

CatOne (655161) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631697)

ship date? I don't really understand this... if it's 7 1/2 months from RC to ship, how close to an *actual* release candidate is this release candidate? Perhaps it should be called a beta? ::shrug::

I can understand a couple months for mastering and to ship/distribute/market, etc., but still that leaves 4-5 months to resolve testing on this RC "candiate." I guess the Borg just move really slowly on testing :-/

Re:How do you reconcile a May 5th RC date with a 2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27631745)

RC1, two months
RC2, two months
RC3, two months
Delivery, 1.5 months?

Re:How do you reconcile a May 5th RC date with a 2 (1)

DMUTPeregrine (612791) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631855)

Planning for >1 RC is smart, in that it gives you time to fix bugs, but RCs are supposed to be releasable. 7.5 months seems much more like a beta than an RC. You put out an RC with exactly what you plan to release, and then fix any bugs found. Repeat. Once you have all critical bugs fixed you rename the RC to the release.

Re:How do you reconcile a May 5th RC date with a 2 (1)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632315)

I've never beta tested a large application that was ready by the end of the second RC.

RC in my experience means it's the entire application in a shipping form that's still full of bugs.

Often a beta will be incomplete. It might not include the licenseing system. It might not include an installer. It might not include some sort of updating software. It might not include the documentation yet. But an RC means it's theoretically 'shippable' just buggy. Then they work out the lats of the bugs and make sure all of the support documentation and software doesn't break anything.

The last huge 'platform' software I tested was in RC for about 3 months before going gold. They were still fixing bugs as normal during that phase. (They are still fixing bugs and will probably fix bugs up until and after the next version ships). But the RC1 was a clear break from previous beta builds in that it was a DVD image with everything they intended to ship on the DVD.

To seemed like a perfectly logical and rational process to me.

As far as I'm concerned Windows 7 is ready to ship right now for my needs. I had some missing drivers which were problematic on an old Athlon XP but otherwise have had almost no problems. (Except for HD-DVD playback with PowerDVD).

Re:How do you reconcile a May 5th RC date with a 2 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632021)

It'll ship in '09 asshole!

Ship Date != RTM (1)

DaHat (247651) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632099)

You realize that even if the 2010 release date is true... (which frankly I'd be surprised by given it'd mean they'd miss the Christmas sales season)... it's not unreasonable for a company to give themselves (and OEMs) a bit of lead time. After all... just because Microsoft signs off the software being done on a given date and goes to stamp a huge number of retail DVDs doesn't mean that OEMs who ship Windows on their PCs will have signed off on their customizations to it and are ready to ship at the same time.

Re:Ship Date != RTM (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632363)

They are a software company. Not a hardware company. As soon as it's ready to ship, just ship it. Let the OEMs catch up at their own pace. You don't need to buy a new computer to buy an OS (although it is cheaper that way), so why should they have to wait for the computer hardware makers to figure things out. People want a new OS now.

You're a laugh riot (2, Interesting)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631769)

Since when is a press release a "leak"? What, is this British intelligence trying to sex it up a little?

Of course you know, this means war

Any word on free legal upgrade for Vista owners? (4, Insightful)

The Lynxpro (657990) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631803)

I thought I'd chime in and ask the undying question of whether Microsoft had come to their senses and finally decided to give free upgrades to Windows Se7en for all legit consumer Vista users.

They could really win some good will back from their users if they did this...kinda like the free Zune* firmware updates for the original players...

*No, I am not a Microsoft apologist, Vista user, or Zune owner. I am typing this from my MacBook while taking a break from my PS3. I just think it would be a good idea for MS to do this for its users. It certainly would be more pro-active than their lame laptop commercials.

Re:Any word on free legal upgrade for Vista owners (-1, Troll)

maugle (1369813) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631931)

Microsoft? Refuse money? In an attempt to win a little "good will"?
HAH!

They're Microsoft. They have a tiny group of diehard fanboys, and that's it. Nobody else really likes them, and they really don't need to be liked. As long as their OS and Office suite continue to dominate, they couldn't care less what their users think of them.

Re:Any word on free legal upgrade for Vista owners (1)

Z80xxc! (1111479) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632611)

Microsoft has a tiny group of diehard fanboys and that's it?? What planet are you from... Microsoft has thousands of multimillion dollar corporate customers, and a near monopoly on the OS market. Linux has a tiny group of diehard fanboys which are gaining ground, but nothing near the size - nor popularity - of Microsoft.

Re:Any word on free legal upgrade for Vista owners (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632139)

You're thinking of SP2, which will be a free upgrade for Windows Vista SP1 users.

Re:Any word on free legal upgrade for Vista owners (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632289)

Windows 7 should have been Vista SP2. Microsoft simply needed a completely new name because Vista's image has been tarnished beyond repair.

Re:Any word on free legal upgrade for Vista owners (1)

alen (225700) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632257)

did apple ever give free upgrades? judging by the size of OS X updates as well as the wait for 10.5.7 to QA it, it's just as buggy as windows.

Re:Any word on free legal upgrade for Vista owners (2)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632369)

Actually yes they did. The first OSX was such a fuming pile of a turd that the first OSX upgrade was free.

But the first OSX made Vista's problems look like first day of school jitters.

Re:Any word on free legal upgrade for Vista owners (1, Interesting)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632509)

But the first OSX made Vista's problems look like first day of school jitters.

As a user of both, I assure you: no it didn't.

Re:Any word on free legal upgrade for Vista owners (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632843)

The difference is that Apple upgrades usually include new features that are worth paying for... Windows 7 is basically Vista without some of the bloat.

Re:Any word on free legal upgrade for Vista owners (1)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632333)

Why should Vista owners feel they deserve a free upgrade? Didn't they install SP1? That's their free upgrade.

Temper the virtiol & the hope (5, Insightful)

AnalPerfume (1356177) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631889)

They know people hate Vista. They know many saw it as the last straw with Windows and switched away from Windows. They know that a lot more are clinging onto XP as if it's their only life raft in a storm. They know that each day that Vista is the current Windows is another day XP users will be tempted to switch away. By holding out the new "Windows which will deliver on all your hopes" just a little longer, that they can stay those hands from making the switch.

The same happened with the Sega Saturm / Sony Playstation. Sega got their console onto the shelves about 1 month before Sony, and console fans were split on whether to wait that little bit longer for the Playstation or buy the Saturn now. Even if the Playstation was delayed a little bit, or out of stock, the carrot was always there, dangling just out of reach but within distance.

By dangling the release in "leaks" which may change later, and making it available to a few, it appears to be very exclusive, which sends another PR message that it's "special". By holding the download window open for a short time, it forces people who want it to act within that window, meaning that it's on their minds during that time. It will translate into a flurry of astorturfing blogs which will no doubt be dugg by fellow astroturfers flaming the fires. All of which sends the message to consumers to just hold on, the cavalry is just around the corner and is on it's way to save you from Vista. All of which conveniently forgets to mention that Vista is just a different regiment under the same flag as the cavalry.

Re:Temper the virtiol & the hope (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632019)

The same happened with the Sega Saturm / Sony Playstation. Sega got their console onto the shelves about 1 month before Sony, and console fans were split on whether to wait that little bit longer for the Playstation or buy the Saturn now. Even if the Playstation was delayed a little bit, or out of stock, the carrot was always there, dangling just out of reach but within distance.

I'm pretty sure that happened with the Dreamcast and PS2 as well. The difference that go around however was that the Dreamcast was vastly superior and is still one of the most interesting consoles to have ever been made.

Re:Temper the virtiol & the hope (1, Insightful)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632219)

"many" people switched from windows? what crack pipe are you smoking, because everyone i've seen with a new pc has vista. sure maybe mac's market share went up from 5% to 6%, but your deluding yourself if you think MS doesn't have an iron grip on the desktop.

Re:Temper the virtiol & the hope (2, Interesting)

dangitman (862676) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632555)

because everyone i've seen with a new pc has vista

And they're all miserable, right? I've seen people come into work who have been suckered into buying these leviathan laptops with Vista, and they are constantly having problems, and regret the purchase.

It's probably the people who have actually bought Vista who would be most tempted to switch, rather than those still on XP. Of course, having just bought their white elephant laptop, they might not have the funds to do so yet.

Re:Temper the virtiol & the hope (1)

AnalPerfume (1356177) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632865)

Misconceptions work well for Microsoft, they use them very wisely. They try to tell you that (insert current version of Windows here) is the most popular yet while ignoring the reality. People don't CHOOSE Windows, they choose to buy a new PC, and more often than not the ONLY option they have is Windows. Even when they ask for the PC without Windows they are often told it's not allowed, so they have to pay for something they never intend to use, counting as a Windows sale, even if Linux is running on that hardware by the end of the day. Some people do choose Windows, but everyone else only has a choice of which edition of the current Windows to buy.

Microsoft and their PR partners like to have people talk of "PC viruses" when there are no such things, there are "Windows viruses". No doubt some will eventually appear to target Linux and Apple, which will no doubt be labeled by the same media as "Linux viruses" or "Mac viruses". Making people think "PC" and "Windows" is the same thing makes people think that they'll have all the same Windows specific issues with any other OS, and if any other OS was good enough it'd be in Microsoft's position in stores. Anyone who knows Microsoft knows that to be false but like many have said, he who controls the media controls the message.

Re:Temper the virtiol & the hope (2, Interesting)

AnalPerfume (1356177) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632571)

Thank you for pointing out the other part of this strategy; Microsoft continue to bully and threaten retailers and OEMs into only offering their customers Windows. It stems the flow of deserters somewhat. Things have changed to some degree in recent years though. Some retailers DO offer Linux options on some models, even if you do have to jump through hoops to find them. Netbooks have given Linux a platform it never had years ago. Vista is seen by many as a turd and people want anything but Vista. Linux's poster child Ubuntu IS starting to make it's way into the mainstream as a credible alternative to the pain and discomfort imposed upon PC use by Microsoft.

What we see is dependent on our circles of living. Many people are trying to avoid having to buy a new PC right now because Microsoft have refused to allow them to buy XP with it. They will hold off if they can until Windows 7, or if they need a new PC before then, they will look at alternatives. To my knowledge the XP downgrade racket was only offered to corporations, not regular home users. Even this is uncertain with cut off dates followed by extensions and exceptions. Even those who are desperate enough to pay extra for an old model to avoid the current one will still be listed as a Vista sale, even if it leaves the store with XP installed.

Yes Microsoft still have a HUGE monopoly on desktops which they will abuse to cut out any competition but they Vista has cost them.

Re:Temper the virtiol & the hope (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632647)

Really? Everyone in your high school uses Vista? F'ing kids....

Re:Temper the virtiol & the hope (1)

Jamie's Nightmare (1410247) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632705)

The same happened with the Sega Saturm / Sony Playstation.

You aren't really going to compare a computer OS release to a video game console, are you? Oh.... you did. Well, besides being largely irrelevant, you forgot one huge reason for the failure of the Saturn:

BECAUSE SEGA FUCKED OVER "SEGA CD" AND "32X" OWNERS, HARD.

After these silicon coated turds, myself and others were done with Sega, pertinently.

rsync for Windows? (2, Interesting)

a09bdb811a (1453409) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631911)

I've been considering using Windows 7 when I buy a new laptop later this year, but I have a serious question:

How the hell do Windows users backup their files?

I haven't used Windows properly since I was a kid, and I didn't care about backups back then. Nowadays I use rsync every day to mirror files onto an external USB drive and over the network. Once a week I do an incremental backup with rdiff-backup.

Are there any basic, robust tools like these for Windows?

Also, what's the new "Power Shell" like? Is it like bash? Can you run curses programs yet, like mutt? Or would I have to learn a GUI like Thunderbird?

I've been on Linux for so long, I'm actually finding it harder than I imagined to see how I can work with Windows again. I tried Vista and it was actually kinda slick, so I wouldn't mind it on my laptop. It seems like a Macbook would be easier though.

Re:rsync for Windows? (4, Interesting)

slk (2510) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631965)

I've actually been running Vista as a primary desktop OS for about a month, after 14 years of Unix type OS as a primary desktop system (Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, OSX, even Solaris)

Why? It's a change. I was too comfortable with all of the Linuxes, the others weren't a good fit for an ultralight Thinkpad. If you don't force yourself to be uncomfortable now and then, you stagnate. (I do still have Fedora in a VM for quite a few things - I'm trying to make myself learn, not be a masochist)

The specific OS is Vista Business 32-bit, because that's what I had a license for (bought it with the laptop "just in case"). If I were to reinstall, I would go with a 64-bit version.

For backups, I am currently using Acronis TrueImage. Based on a test "full image restore", it works. It's primarily an image backup utility, not rsync or similar. I'm just doing routine backups to an external hard drive.

What you're asking for is actually pretty difficult under Windows, as far as I can tell; it' s far easier on Linux or OSX. On the other hand, there is something to be said for a full native Excel 2007 (sorry OOo fans, but calc is nowhere remotely close to a usable Excel replacement, including fundamental design flaws in the solver that have been there since at least 1.1)

Re:rsync for Windows? (1)

alen (225700) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631997)

Windows has had a native backup tool since the mid 1990's. Most of the backup vendors use it as a base in their products and add on some features. I don't even think MS writes it. The disk management MMC is actually a lite edition of Veritas Volume Manager.

Re:rsync for Windows? (3, Informative)

Bacon Bits (926911) | more than 5 years ago | (#27631999)

Just get Cygwin. Now you have rsync.

Re:rsync for Windows? (1)

DJRumpy (1345787) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632087)

PowerShell is actually kinda nice. It's well integrated with the OS and easy to learn which is surprising. You have to get a decent third party debugger though. Typical that they don't include any decent tools with it. It's a bit like C, Perl, and Java. I see aspects of each in there.

That said, they lost me with Vista. I've gone with a Mac for my last two purchases ;)

Re:rsync for Windows? (4, Informative)

w_crossman (451816) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632089)

SyncToy [microsoft.com] is a rather awesome free backup utility from Microsoft. Although it's relatively hard to schedule, it's very easy to use it for any number of one-way or two-way backups. I use it to back up my thumb drive and for various tasks at work.

Re:rsync for Windows? (4, Informative)

TheNetAvenger (624455) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632181)

How the hell do Windows users backup their files?

Well to make this an easy answer...

----
1) Windows Backup

- You can choose User Files or a Complete volume image.

Many users do a periodic Complete backup and daily user file backups to complete a total recovery solution.

A side benefit of Windows Backup is that it also works with the Windows 'Previous Versions', which is like Time Machine on OS X, but also includes 'on volume' snapshot/copy on write archived versions of all your documents. It is also more accessible and elegant than Time Machine, as it is integrated into the Shell and even older application that have an Open or Save dialog box get access to 'previous versions' of your documents.

So in Windows Vista or Win7, you can right click on the main volume and hit previous versions and it will list all the archive points on the volume and all the backup points on your external storage device(network share etc.)

Also recovering or viewing a 'previous version' from the volume or a backup is as easily as hitting open and viewing the Folder or Volume as it looked at a particular day or time, being able to browse through the entire volume and even search it as it existed on that date and time.

No Time Machine interface needed, and even your external backups are not needed for the basic functionality as it uses the Volume Shadow features of NTFS every time you modify a file on your computer.

---
2) Scripted Backups, with folder syncing, etc. Tools like Copy and XCopy have been replaced in Windows and you have RoboCopy as well as new PowerShell copy features.

RoboCopy is probably what you are looking for, as it is a complete backup and archiving tool, in addition to performing basic file copying. It does folder syncing, mirroring, etc, etc and can create a perfect copy of even the system volume with all attributes, NTFS meta data, and ACLs kept in tact that you can simply use RoboCopy again from the boot DVD in the WinPE environment to restore a volume exactly.

(WinPE is essentially NT with a generic GUI, so unlike XP, it allows NT and even Win32/64 commandline and some GUI utilities to run on what is essentially the 'MinWin' layers of NT. WinPE is also what Vista and Win7 use for setup/upgrades.)

---
3) Other utilities.
---

If the built in Complete Backup/User Data Backup tools or the RoboCopy utility don't provide the features you want, there are additional 'IT' scale tools in the resource kit that add even more functionality, as well as the PowerShell features.

You can even click 'install SUA' and use or compile any *nix utility you like and use it. NT doesn't care if you are using the BSD subsystem or Win32.

There are also the Win32 ports of the *nix utilities that a lot of *nix users love.

----

One PS about Powershell...

PowerShell is more of a CLI for the NT architecture.

Which means it is the first CLI designed around the object based kernel architecture of NT, and unlike a *nix CLI, doesn't deal with just device I/O and text, but uses the 'object' constructs that NT is uses instead.

So Powershell can request and interact with devices and I/O on an object level as well as pass and work with objects from the NT and Win32 Subsystem that would be basic devices and textual on *nix.

i.e. It can work directly with an object and its properties at the CLI level from the NT kernel and not just textual parameters and understands NT objects in the kernel from things like the token based security of NT to even the Win32 subsystem WMI objects that create the GUI, other interfaces all the way through process and services that work with NT in object form. (This is one area NT was designed to be more advanced than UNIX, as the basic device and textual nature of the UNIX model was considered to be outdated when NT was created, and using a real 'object' model that exposed information, functions, and properties for I/O was seen as the more robust system.

Some think PowerShell is a 'catch-up' the CLIs on *nix, and there is some truth in this, as to the functionality, but in actual implementation, it is more revolutionary than that as it is a comprehensive CLI that deals with objects instead of textual I/O.

It can pass actual objects and property information as well as work with NT's object functions inherently, instead of just calling basic I/O or applications with textual parameters as the UNIX model works.

Re:rsync for Windows? (1)

imemyself (757318) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632211)

In business environments nobody actually bothers with backuping up the notebooks/workstations. You just save your files on a network drive (you can have My Documents redirected to a network share if you want, and even have it cached locally in the case of a laptop). You could also use something like iFolder to sync your files to a server. The servers are either backed up with scripts (for *nix based stuff) or something like Backup Exec (for Windows based servers). If you want something more similar to rsync, you might look at Microsoft's free Sync Toy. I'm sure there's versions of rsync ported to Windows too.

Re:rsync for Windows? (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632353)

there are 100's of windows based backup options, you haven't even attempted to find out.

Re:rsync for Windows? (4, Informative)

nmb3000 (741169) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632529)

rsync for Windows?

Robocopy [wikipedia.org] is a free command-line tool similar to rsync that comes with Vista and is a free download for previous versions of Windows. The syntax is a little clumsy, but it works pretty well for simple backups (that is, directory replication). A free 3rd party tool that's pretty good is Cobian Backup [cobiansoft.com] . However there are probably hundreds of different "backup" utilities for Windows so you might want to just try a couple and see how they work for you.

PowerShell is pretty nice, certainly it's leaps and bounds better than CMD or WSH. Object-oriented and allows full access to the .NET framework which is pretty nice. Easily extensible as well by writing your own "cmdlets" (a .NET program invoked like a built-in command).

Re:rsync for Windows? (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632537)

Because obviously rsync is the *only* way to *ever* backup *any* software *ever!*

I use Mozy to back up: http://mozy.com/ [mozy.com] It's just quicker and easier than everything else out there. But there are a billion non-rsync backup options for Windows. And of course there's a Windows port of rsync, so there you go.

PowerShell isn't much like Bash, it's really only "like" itself... it's basically an Object Oriented CLI system which access to most/all of the .net library functions. I haven't worked with it much, but it's pretty much entirely new as far as CLI concepts go. (Which is good, because I think Bash sucks ass.)

Re:rsync for Windows? (1)

Z34107 (925136) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632829)

How the hell do Windows users backup their files?

Step 1: Put your files where you can find them. Your home directory (c:\users\username) is a good place.

After that it's simple. Robocopy is a nifty, rscync-ish command-line tool; you can get it on Server 2003 or XP as a separate download. You can also get SyncToy, a GUI program. Windows 7's (and Vista's) built-in backup program can do some nifty things (including create a complete PC image), but only in the Business and Ultimate editions. (Natch.)

I haven't used PowerShell much, but it sounds pretty nifty. It's built in to Server 2008, and everything is configurable from a PowerShell command line. (Evidently on Server 2003 and prior, only some things were scriptable like this; most things had to be done with clicking.)

The niftiest thing about PowerShell is that it's built on .NET - pipes take fully-typed objects rather than character strings. Think object-oriented perl.

As for getting a Macbook... No reason why you can't install Windows 7 on it later; they're Wintel machines that haven't come out of the closet yet.

Re:rsync for Windows? (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632917)

How the hell do Windows users backup their files?

Most don't (but that's not a surprise, is it - people in general are lazy...).

Otherwise, most probably use the built-in "Windows Backup" utility, which is pretty basic, though. For more advanced stuff, there's something like Acronis True Image (not free, though). Or you can just use any of the numerous rsync Win32 ports (e.g. Cygwin, which is probably the most stable option, but Google should give you some more).

Also, what's the new "Power Shell" like? Is it like bash?

It's not like bash at all in its concepts, but in terms of power I'd say it's superior. It also has a few default aliases in place to make people familiar with Unix shells feel more at home (i.e. it'll understand "ls", "cp", "cat", "man", and a few other basic things, though the switches are mostly different).

Can you run curses programs yet, like mutt?

Ncurses has been available for Win32 for ages. So, yes.

Windows $NEXT_VERSION will floor all comers (4, Funny)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632011)

Guest post by Mary-Jo Enderle

I have seen the future: Windows $NEXT_VERSION Milestone $MOCKUP [today.com] .

I tried it on a low-end laptop with four Core 2 Duo chips and only 8 gig of memory, and trust me: $NEXT_VERSION is shaping up to be one heck of a product.

WordPad and Paint have seen major overhauls to their user interfaces. Forget the freetards and their "distros" full of all sorts of useless shovelware like "FireFox" and "OpenOffice" and, haha, "GIMP"! -- the bundled software with Windows $NEXT_VERSION is clear, simple, sparse and to-the-point. The much-loved $HATED user interface from Office $HATED_VERSION is now part of WordPad and Paint!

The controversial Digital Rights Management system in Vista has been worked over, with user-downloadable "tilt bits," which you can configure to your own liking. It'll require every user to supply a blood sample for DNA analysis, and the beta nearly took my finger off, but of course that's only if you want to play premium content. The Blu-Ray(tm) of Battlefield Earth was unbelievable on this operating system.

A public beta should be released by the end of this year. There's just no way that Steve "Trains Run On Time" Ballmer will miss the Christmas deadline. The final release should leave the midnight queues on Vista release day -- the street riots, the water cannons, the rubber bullets -- in the shade.

I am so excited about $NEXT_VERSION of Windows. It will go beyond just solving all of the problems with $CURRENT_VERSION, it will be an entirely new paradigm. Forget about security problems, those are all fixed in $NEXT_VERSION. And they're finally ridding themselves of $ANCIENT_LEGACY_STUFF.

Also, there'll be $DATABASE_FILESYSTEM. It'll be awesome!

I wonder how $NEXT_VERSION will compare to $NEXT_NEXT_VERSION.

*pint* to the mods (1)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632319)

You know you're doing well when your post is modded "insightful troll".

Re:*pint* to the mods (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632771)

Depends on "who" is modding you insightful. Given the people you associate with [boycottnovell.com] , it's no surprise to see others of your kind giving you a pat on the back. To the rest of us, you are worse than a troll. You're a bona fide asshole.

Leaked? (2, Insightful)

QuietLagoon (813062) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632079)

That is so funny. The Windows 7 release blitz has been completely planned.

.
Look at it this way. Vista has been a disaster for Microsoft. Windows 7 is the hopeful salvation. If Microsoft cannot make Windows 7 work and grab marketshare to the level of Windows XP, Microsoft is in deep doo.

So what is a monopolistic comapny to do? Well, one thing is to try to build what the marketeers call a buzz [buzzmarketing.com] . Will Microsoft succeed? Or have the computing masses tasted the freedom of OS-X and Linux?

Re:Leaked? (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632933)

That is so funny. The Windows 7 release blitz has been completely planned.

What?? Who'd knew? Next thing you're gonna say is that professional wrestling ain't real! ~

Or have the computing masses tasted the freedom of OS-X and Linux?

The computing masses seem to be content chewing the XP gum. It has lost all taste a long time ago, but they've got so used to it they don't notice.

Why is there a "leak" in the title? (1)

nicc777 (614519) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632081)

This is just normal marketing - nothing was leaked...

In the end they know perfectly well how to manipulate most slashdotters :-)

Hope They Fix The Installer Bug (2, Interesting)

CritterNYC (190163) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632235)

Let's hope they fix the bug in the Program Compatibility Assistance that installers that don't affect certain registry keys in add/remove to have an error. It basically kills off lots of updaters, plugin installers and PortableApps.com Installers:
http://portableapps.com/node/18540 [portableapps.com]

Download (5, Informative)

dark42 (1085797) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632255)

If you have a subscription to MSDN or TechNet, you can download Windows 7 RC now

If you have a "ThePirateBay" subscription, you can download Windows 7 RC now.

Leaked Release Date! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632323)

The best operating system in 50 years! Released 10 days early! It was supposed to be later but...
Ubuntu 9.10 in 5 more days! ...er... that was the great news wasn't it? The news wasn't some shitty microsoft thing, recycled from dos 5 again is it?; with astroturfers and marketing bunnies trying to sell us something oil-burning again, is it? Geez, I hope not!

Remote Controlled (0, Flamebait)

AnalPerfume (1356177) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632399)

I wonder if "RC" in Microsoft terminology means "Remote Controlled" since almost every critical update description has some wording along the lines of "allows a remote user to execute code on your system and control.....". Every "critical" update apart from the WGA which is critical in helping Microsoft shut down functions of any PC the WGA deems is a pirated version of Windows. Come to think of it, this allows a remote party to control your PC too.

Re:Remote Controlled (1)

AnalPerfume (1356177) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632889)

HAHAHAHAHA Ya gotta love it, personally I hoped for a "flamebait" rather than a "troll" from the astroturfers but either way I draw mod points. Keep 'em coming guys. That's assuming the sense of humor blue screened you ya.

Smell the desperation (1, Insightful)

dangitman (862676) | more than 5 years ago | (#27632485)

Wow, Microsoft is really trying to run away from Vista as quickly as possible. Could they rush this this to market any more quickly? How long has Vista been out, and has there been a major new version of Windows ever released in such a short time frame?

I think in their desperate rush, they are likely to make the same mistakes again. Will MS ever take the effort to rebuild the system properly?

leaks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27632929)

It's my question.

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