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The Circus Widens In Aftermath of Pirate Bay Verdict

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the buy-me-some-peanuts-and-crackerjacks dept.

The Courts 319

MaulerOfEmotards sends along an in-depth followup, from the Swedish press, of our discussion the other day about the biased trial judge in the Pirate Bay case. "The turmoil concerns Tomas Norström, the presiding judge of The Pirate Bay trial, who is suspected of bias after reports surfaced of affiliation with copyright protection organizations. For this he has been reported to the appeals court (in Swedish; translation here). The circus around the judge is currently focused on three points. First, his personal affiliation with at least four copyright protection organizations, a state the potential bias of which he himself fails to see and refuses to admit. Secondly, Swedish trials use a system of several lay assessors to supervise the presiding judge. One of these, a member of an artists' interest organization, was forced by Mr. Norström to resign from the trial for potential bias. The judge's failure to see the obvious contradiction in this (translation) casts doubts on his suitability and competence. Thirdly, according to professor of judicial sociology Håkan Hydén (translation), the judge has inappropriately 'duped and influenced the lay assessors' during the trial: 'a judge that has decided that "this is something we can't allow" has little problem finding legal arguments that are difficult for assisting lay assessors to counter.'" Click the link below to read further on Professor Hydén's enumeration of "at least three strange things in a strange trial." On a related note, reader Siker adds the factoid that membership in the Pirate Party exploded 150% in the week following the verdict. The Pirate Party now surpasses in size four smaller parties in Sweden, and is closing in on a fifth. Political fallout could ensue as soon as June, when an election for EU parliament will be held.
Professor Hydén continues with enumerating "at least three strange things in a strange trial" (translation): First, that someone can be sentenced for being accessory to a crime for which there is no main culprit: "This assumes someone else having committed the crime, and no such individual exists here... the system cannot charge the real culprits or it would collapse in its entirety." It is unprecedented in Swedish judicial history to sentence only an accessory. Second, that the accessories should pay the fine for a crime committed by the main culprits, "which causes the law to contradict itself." And third, that accessories cannot be sentenced to harsher than the main culprit, which means that every downloader must be sentenced to a year's confinement. Prof. Hydén sums up by saying that to allow this kind of judgement the Swedish Parliament must first pass a bill making this kind of services illegal, which it has not done.

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All aboard mateys!!! (5, Funny)

marco.antonio.costa (937534) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715247)

Arghh!!!

Re:All aboard mateys!!! (2, Insightful)

cthulu_mt (1124113) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715265)

Sic Semper Tyrannis!

Re:All aboard mateys!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715309)

Hahaharrrrr! You arrrrrr a pirate! [youtube.com]

Let me restate that sentiment (4, Funny)

Blue Stone (582566) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715563)

with a little act of solidarity with the Pirate Bay (assisting in the dissemination of copyright infringing material) whilst simultaneously making a wry comment on the dastardly Copyright Cartels and all their nefarious shennanigans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvP0uwl3Q6A [youtube.com]

(perhaps their new theme tune?)

When you install Photoshop, you are installing fas (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715251)

13. Compliance with Licenses.
If you are a business, company, or organization, you agree that, no more than once every 12 months, Adobe or its authorized representative shall, upon

10 days prior notice to you, have the right to inspect your records, systems, and facilities to verify that your use of any and all Adobe software is

in conformity with your valid licenses from Adobe. If a verification discloses that your use is not in conformity with a valid license, you shall immediately

obtain valid licenses to bring your use into conformity.

Re:When you install Photoshop, you are installing (2, Interesting)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715433)

In some countries, their right to inspect a customer's system may be on par with the "right" of the public to make copies of DVD (here it is explicitly allowed unless the disk is protected, which is of course in almost all cases. :-)).

Re:When you install Photoshop, you are installing (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715943)

seems reasonable in the remedies department, rather than outrageous BSA fines like microshaft adobe insists that you pay for what you were pirating.

Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (5, Interesting)

Idiot with a gun (1081749) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715271)

Cause political chaos by throwing sudden, and massive support behind a new political party. Wish Americans were capable of picking some other party aside from Republicans or Democrats.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (4, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715365)

The one party pretending to be two have the people sufficiently duped. I think that wrestler turned politician, Jesse Ventura, said it exactly right when he said politics is a tremendous show and it's all fake. In so called "professional wrestling" people do actually get hurt and do actually die, but when they aren't in front of a camera, they are all going out to dinners with one another, playing golf, visiting each other's homes, having parties and the like. They are NOT bitter enemies. Republicrats are the same way. They may actually get indicted and prosecuted and even convicted of various things in and around party politics, but at the end of the day, they're all good ole boys and socialize and play together in their elite circles.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (5, Insightful)

aynoknman (1071612) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715493)

The one party pretending to be two have the people sufficiently duped. I think that wrestler turned politician, Jesse Ventura, said it exactly right when he said politics is a tremendous show and it's all fake.

Piet Hein said it poetically:
Relativity: A grook with no reference whatever to the two-party system

To wear a shirt that's relatively clean,
You needn't ever launder off the dirt
If you possess two shirts to choose between
and always change into the cleaner shirt.
-- Piet Hein

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (1)

gringofrijolero (1489395) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715729)

But if the color clashes, you got a problem with the fashion police.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (4, Interesting)

timeOday (582209) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715531)

Even within a party sometimes. The post-election political embrace between Hillary Clinton and Obama was so rapid, I'm not sure whether to congratulate them for burying the hatchet and getting on with the nation's business, or instead question all that heated rhetoric and emotion they displayed (OK, especially her) during the election? It makes it seem like political theatre rather than genuine, substantive ideological debate.

PS sending some Bush officials to jail for torture would be an effective counter-argument to the allegation of single-party rule, would it not? As it is, I am really starting to question whether the Nuremberg trials were just "victor's justice." (Oops, Godwin alert! But relevant IMHO). It's so much easier to see the mote in the other guy's eye, Jesus had that one right.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (0, Offtopic)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716285)

PS sending some Bush officials to jail for torture would be an effective counter-argument to the allegation of single-party rule, would it not?

Well, somebody has to play the scapegoat. But I'm sure they'll find somebody completely unrelated.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (4, Interesting)

abolitiontheory (1138999) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715809)

...at the end of the day, they're all good ole boys and socialize and play together in their elite circles.

But also not. While the idea of America's two parties functionally being one big family is novel and intriguing, there are true separations. In the south they really drink sweet tea and own guns and have less (or different) money and go to church a lot. In the north they live in high rises and go to the opera and drive luxury cars and complain about global warming.

My point is this: I have had dinner with both liberals and republicals so blinded by ideology that had they met a (one-sided) gun fight would have surely insued. The only thing which makes this situation hilarious and tragic is how little significant space actually separates their views, thereby making their ardor hallow and frightening.

Your comment does raise an interesting point for me, however, having lived near Washington D.C. almost my entire life. I wonder if the artificiality of that town, removed from the country and from the areas where which the elected officials supposedly 'represent' is sufficiently homogenous to truly turn the majority of politics into friends behind the guise of opposition. Maybe them, like us, are just happy to have jobs and to get paid for doing relatively little... essentially for looking busy.

We all appreciate the ability to get up in arms over nothing. Ardently defending your favorite linux distro or computing platform is a cathartic experience of fervor without something actually crucial to survival being on the line. Perhaps America, so instantiated in its history of wealth and domination, has no reason for actual party creation, affiliation, or division, because nothing has sufficiently rocked the boat so as to leave us concerned to the point of change.

We're all pretty confident things will recover, one way or another, under the blundering of either blue or red. In this sense, we all believe in one party, the green party, and its simply a matter of whichever other color seems to be most affiliated with that one at the moment that we vote for.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (3, Insightful)

JDevers (83155) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716007)

You kind of just proved his point actually. The individuals which ascribe to a political party are often very much at odds with the "other" party, however the parties themselves are only at odds with each other in public circles.

Of course I live in the South, have several friends that live in high rises, I go to the opera at least three or four times a year, drive a German car, and gripe a lot about global warming. I don't waive a rebel flag off my back porch, but I am proud to be from the area I am from and love the state I live in and was born in. I also don't own a gun nor drink sweet tea. I of course wish I made more money, but I do OK and I'm an atheist.

I think the biggest differences between the modern North and South is that there are more rural people in the South, a higher percentage of Southerners are Protestant versus Catholic in the North (still not everyone, just relative). Pay scales are lower in the South but so is cost of living, a typical school teacher, nurse, or fireman in Georgia or Louisiana lives in about the same relative status as the same in Michigan or New York.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (4, Insightful)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715863)

They are NOT bitter enemies. Republicrats are the same way.

An irony is that while the politicians get along pretty well, the rank-and-file citizenry of the Democrat and Republican parties in the US are practically at each others' throats, in no small part because they've been goaded there by fringe groups and media personalities.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715909)

They may actually get indicted and prosecuted and even convicted of various things in and around party politics, but at the end of the day, they're all good ole boys and socialize and play together in their elite circles.

Reference, bohemian grove [lmgtfy.com] , where America's elite get together, have a strange party with occult & satanic overtones, circle jerks and mandatory ghey secks in a grove of redwoods.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (4, Insightful)

Sorcha Payne (1047874) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715393)

Their political system is fundamentally different from the one in the US, because it allows smaller parties to flourish. Fringe parties with say less than 10% of the vote actually get some representation, unlike in the US where the best they can do is screw one of the two parties.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27716137)

What's the point of that? The point of a political system is not really to "represent" everyone, but to make decisions. These decisions will inevitably be compromises that most people live with rather than love. If you want perfect representation of all beliefs, start a debating club.

When you have a system that doesn't penalise fringe and special-issue parties you end up with lots of them, and you have "coalitions" of parties. In effect, everyone gets the chance to vote for the party that perfectly encapsulates their beliefs. After the election the parties start clumping together. Eventually one clump reaches critical mass and you end up with an unstable cluster of policies compiled from a pile of manifestos six feet high by trained monkeys armed with paper shredders.

PR systems give everyone the assurance that nobody has to compromise. They do, of course, but in a much more muddy, hard to understand way. FPTP tends to produce a two-party system, but these parties have a strong incentive to cluster around where the true compromise position is likely to be - if a Democrat ran for national office on a hard-core labor platform, or a Republican on a hard-core evangelical platform they wouldn't get very far. Same with Labour/Conservatives in the UK. This means sometimes voters have an uninspiring choice and have to compromise when they are in the voting booth - but at least they make that compromise knowingly and explicitly.

The system can sometimes be unfair, especially to people with more unusual views (Communist, Libertarian etc) who feel permanently excluded. However it is because their views are unlikely to form part of the consensus position that there is little point in arranging a political system that gives them some token and powerless representation just for show.

Anyway, that was a defense of First Past the Post. I'm not saying it's the greatest thing ever, but its flaws (and Proportional Representation's benefits) are often exaggerated.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (5, Informative)

mrmeval (662166) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715399)

Many many laws are on the books that forbid or seriously cripple third parties. There are some areas a third party CAN NOT GET ON THE BALLOT BY LAW.

Ask the Libertarian party (not to be confused with libertarians) how hard it is to get on the national ballot. They cannot get on some local ballots, in some cases not even as write-in candidates.

Both the Repulsocrats and Demicrats were more than willing for that legislation to happen. The only thing allowed has been usurpation of a party which the neo-cons did to the Reps and the socialists did to the Demis.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (2, Interesting)

MoonBuggy (611105) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715429)

the Libertarian party (not to be confused with libertarians)

A little off-topic, but what did you mean by this? I try to keep up with American politics, but the subtlety there seems to have escaped me.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (3, Funny)

LordKaT (619540) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715519)

The Libertarian Party has a different set of ideals than those that label themselves as "libertarian" here in America.

I'd explain it, but I'll be fucked if I could care.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715521)

I think it's the usual "Group is not represented by individuals which make up Group" argument you get when talking about groups of people with beliefs. I have heard the same about various religions, don't look at what the people who make up the group say/do, instead look at what the group tells the individuals to do.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (4, Insightful)

Xtravar (725372) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716033)

Libertarians have a hard time bowing to authority and being labeled.

So a lot of them feel it necessary to rebel against the Libertarian Party, only dooming every libertarian to even further political insignificance.

Hence, every libertarian (one who subscribes to libertarian ideals) is not a Libertarian (one who subscribes to libertarian ideals and belongs to the Libertarian Party). Yawn.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (1)

mrsquid0 (1335303) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716185)

>>the Libertarian party (not to be confused with libertarians)

>A little off-topic, but what did you mean by this? I try to keep up
>with American politics, but the subtlety there seems to have
>escaped me.

Libertarians have enough infighting to make communists look like a happy tea party.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (1)

thethibs (882667) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715513)

you mean "neo-libs", don't you?

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (4, Insightful)

upside (574799) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715869)

Apart from the outrageous examples you mention, it's really because you don't have proportional representation but a "first past the post" electoral system. When only one candidate from a constituency gets elected smaller parties have no real chance.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27716073)

The problem with proportional representation is the moron / idiot / joke candidates can pick up enough votes on a national populous to get a seat. Once in, they'll be voted for again, as a joke. Try getting them out, you can't. Ask France about P.R. voting fallout.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (2, Interesting)

Misanthrope (49269) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715411)

It's a side effect of having a parliamentary system in Sweden that this is possible or even influential. Your options are pseudo-majority rule in the US system versus having smaller political groups being used as swing votes. I'm not really sure what I'd prefer in the long run, read up on E.U. politics sometimes. Their farmer subsidies are almost as ridiculous as our own.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (5, Interesting)

migla (1099771) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715453)

"Wish Americans were capable of picking some other party aside from Republicans or Democrats."

In Sweden there's a 4 % threshold for "Riksdagen", the parliament, which probably makes it easier to succeed with a new party, compared to the system in the USA.

IMO, One thing that the US should perhaps do is to have 2 rounds, like they do in Finland, when electing a president. If no candidate gets > 50% in the first round, the top 2 advance to the second round. This way you could vote for what you really want in the first round and one day an outsider might stand the slightest chance.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715973)

IMO, One thing that the US should perhaps do is to have 2 rounds, like they do in Finland, when electing a president. If no candidate gets > 50% in the first round, the top 2 advance to the second round. This way you could vote for what you really want in the first round and one day an outsider might stand the slightest chance.

Or they could just implement range voting [rangevoting.org] and get the same or better result with only one election.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (2, Insightful)

lenkyl (1353049) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716121)

50% of what? the popular vote? for president? you can keep your direct democracy. just because millions of people like something doesn't automatically make it good or worthy to be president. the president is supposed to directly represent the states, not the people.

and america has runoff elections in case there is no clear majority thank you very much.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (1, Flamebait)

bonch (38532) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715475)

You actually think the "Pirate Party" isn't a joke and that all those new members will stick around and do something? I'm pretty sure that once all the pirates realize they have to do work, they'll quietly disappear.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (3, Insightful)

cliffski (65094) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715657)

Well said.
I'm a passionate believer in copyright, in fact my livliehood depends upon it, and yet I'm not politically dense enough to vote based purely on a parties stance on copying music.
I vote based on social policy, economic policy, attitude to foreign governments, tax, education and healthcare policy...

People who think thepiratebay trial is the most vital political issue right now should try wathing the news and learn a bit about the world outside of torrents.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (5, Informative)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715995)

I'm a passionate believer in copyright, in fact my livliehood depends upon it, and yet I'm not politically dense enough to vote based purely on a parties stance on copying music.

And if you think it's the only case the Pirate Party has an opinion on, you're mistaken. Granted, they all revolve around the same theme but:

FRA law: Military intelligence permitted to snoop on all traffic passing the Swedish border, which includes tons of domestic communication. Possible police access too.
IPRED law: ISPs forced to hand our subscriber details to private companies, where ont even the police can get access to the same data.
IPRED2 law: More of the same.
EU-US ACTA trade agreements: Includes riders for more invasive searches by customs and other nasty stuff
EU Telecom directive: Forced storing of traffic data, the French want a "guilty until proven innocent, three strikes and you're cut off" law.
EU Copyright extension: Want to increase from 50 to 95 years, now they want to "compromise" on 70 years.
EU Letter RFID tagging initiative: More tracking of where, if not who you're communicating with.

Of course the TPB case is the big driver, and they're all in the copyright/privacy/due process sphere so it's not by any means a full politic. But honestly, a 4% party doesn't rule the country. Take for example the Greens, you know they'll bend over in pretty much every other area as long as they score some big wins on environmental issues. The rest of the time they'll be pushing coalition politics because the 30% party needs wins in many areas. That's where the Pirate Party is too, being a little more honest about it. Plus, it'd make no sense for the Pirate Party to declare sides unless someone would agree to cooperate, if they went with a socialist politics then after the election the other parties could say "Well thanks, you're now committed to voting our way but we'll completely ignore your proposals so you'll have no influence whatsoever". How is that wise?

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27716295)

Let me be the devil's advocate here (or the optimist ;-)

"The Pirate Party now surpasses in size four smaller parties in Sweden, and is closing in on a fifth." That's one way to put it. Another is that the pirate party is now the fourth party in Sweden by member count. It's bigger than two of the four parties in the ruling coalition. And a this rate it will be third by the end of next week.

Should this translate into actual votes during the next election (a *big* if), it would be extremely difficult to form any coalition, unless the two main parties decide to go for the kind of "anything but them" coalition that's usually reserved for the far right. You can bet every party in Sweden is watching this extremely closely; this is the kind of scenario that keeps politicians awake at night.

Another reason why they're watching it is that politicos in the western world have long despaired to get the young adult vote. Methink they know where to get it now.

As for the "important issue", well, yes, it's not Really Important. That's exactly how we got into the current life+70 years cr*p. The thing is it never was important because the people didn't care, and they didn't because they had to buy the LP, book, VHS or CD anyway, and nobody cared if the copyright tax was 1% or 50%. Now the question is between okay, or no internet, big fine, or jail. So they do. Watch this space.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (4, Interesting)

vivaelamor (1418031) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716003)

An easy position to take if you are content with the political status quo on a subject.

There is always a 'more vital' political issue to consider. The fact is that change often rides the tide of events such as the pirate bay trial. If people want a change to how things work then now is the time to do it. Don't forget how much lobbying the music industry has done to get us where we are today; should we let them screw us over culturally and financially just because the issue isn't about starving people?

Economics, foreign policy, social policy, tax, education and healthcare are deep rooted issues. Why is it a bad idea to tackle an issue such as copyright while it is at it's most vulnerable? I'd rather see it sorted today while it is an issue of a few crying artists than tomorrow when it is a deep rooted intellectual tax.

Perhaps what is most bizarre about your attitude though is the clash it causes with most arguments I hear from pro-copyright people of the 'right way' to make a change. I wonder what you would have them do to get the issue debated, maybe you expect them to lobby the politicians like the media companies did and screw democracy altogether.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (5, Insightful)

the_one(2) (1117139) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716061)

I honestly believe that the Internet is one of, if not the, greatest inventions ever. That's why I think defending it is more important than if the tax goes up or down 2%

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715701)

...once all the pirates realize they have done their work, they'll quietly disappear.

:-)Fixed, baby...Like perfect ninjas. Then, when somebody claims to own something they really don't, WHAMMO! Pirate Bay to the rescue.

But what will really happen is that Pirate Bay will get bought. Just like every other successful organization. THEN they will disappear.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715955)

No, we won't.

Exactly what kind of work are you talking about? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27716201)

What kind of work do members of the Swedish Pirate Party have to do? I know that members of the US Democratic and Republican parties aren't required to do any work and it would amaze me if Sweden were different. I know that in some countries, in order to join a party you have to pay dues, but whether or not that applies to Sweden, I wouldn't count it as "work".

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (2, Interesting)

BuR4N (512430) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715525)

Right now we need to vote for this "one issue" party in the upcoming EU election to get the message trough to the established parties for the upcoming national election.

I do not believe in these kind of parties normally, but this circus have gone to far.

The media industry wankers need to realize that they have a under served customer base, and you cant have the goverment help you fix that.

You know what will happen when they managed to take down the "big guys" , they will go after moms, dads, elderly and dead people.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (2, Insightful)

summner (735993) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715755)

I am from a country which in it's relative short history of 20 years or so had about oh shit and some political parties manned by mostly the same people who switch parties when their colleagues fell from public grace. No party has ever secured reelection, and really no one was feeling accountable.

That I think shows in our example at least that there are no added benefits for having more parties. And for 'outsiders' like yours favourite Ron Paul, yeah we had that too, and they formed their own parties and guess what, they were not elected.

Non mainstream ideas not backed by MSM don't have a fscking chance of election.

My short life has thought me that in civilized world there are no room for revolution only evolution. So if ya want to see real change, go for mainstream, and push it in the direction you want it to be.

It's like Richard Dawkins books and lectures, I have yet to see religious person converted to atheism by it. But it's a seed with a label on it which only us can read, label states: you have rights, express them, water the seed and don't be shy and spread it.
It really is just genetically engineered meme, designed to combat older vicious complex emergent meme.

World is a bell curve, get used to it. Only top is visible, but sides can influence also, but it's a really really small influence and it's never instantaneous.

Another thing to remember I think is that there are no fucking recipes for fucking success.

Uh where was I... so many thoughts, sorry, I had to vent them. Anyway, many thinkers here on /. think they have it all aligned, ready to go simple solution kind of thing, this thing or that thing it's the only solution, etc. It's just utter bullshit. There are no final solutions. No jacket fits every man, a tailor would say.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (5, Insightful)

abolitiontheory (1138999) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715861)

The name Pirate Party especially intrigues me. The reason is this: movements in history often end up very far from where they start. Imagine in 100 years, when history has stripped the original reason for the naming of the 'Pirate Party' from social memory, as a father explains to his son why the majority party of their country is named after ancient sea-robbers. Already the term pirate has been shifted and reassigned once. What if some day the just majority of a society is known as pirates? Shifts in ideology produce interesting etymological histories.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715987)

Considering the history of Sweden when numerous swedes would take to the seas and go a viking, I don't actually think a "Pirate Party" is totally out of line for them.

Re:Seems like the Swedish know what to do. (4, Insightful)

SnarfQuest (469614) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715907)

Cause political chaos by throwing sudden, and massive support behind a new political party. Wish Americans were capable of picking some other party aside from Republicans or Democrats.

Both the Republican and the Democrat parties are Pirates. They both want all my money, and go to extreme measures to get it.

Not forced resignation (2, Insightful)

nosound (1523343) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715311)

One of these, a member of an artists' interest organization, was forced by Mr. Norström to resign from the trial for potential bias

I think this is somewhat of an exaggeration. Probably Mr. Norström discussed it with him and he hade his own decision to resign.

Re:Not forced resignation (4, Insightful)

jimshatt (1002452) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715409)

Why is that more probable than the proposition? What are you basing your claim on?

Re:Not forced resignation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27716117)

Well, if you say so...

What is their to debate? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715385)

Had the judge been an active member of the Swedish Pirate Party, worked closely with the defendants in the past, not disclosed it and handed a not guilty verdict, you can be sure the *AAs would of been all over it like flies on a pile. Mistrial, end of story.

It's about time democratic action kicked in! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715425)

Personally, I'd vote for a Pirate Party! Politically speaking, perhaps it's about time to take on the anti-fair-use industry?

If the Pirate Party really has that many people... (5, Interesting)

skine (1524819) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715427)

If the Pirate Party really has that many people, and every downloader must be sentenced to at least a year's confinement, then everybody should turn themselves in and overcrowd the jails.

Re:If the Pirate Party really has that many people (5, Funny)

KarolisP (1538799) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715501)

so like... slashdotting the jail eh? :)

Re:If the Pirate Party really has that many people (2, Interesting)

smaddox (928261) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715805)

Civil disobedience isn't near as effective as political lobbying.

Re:If the Pirate Party really has that many people (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715971)

Cool, sentenced to a years imprisonment within the national boundaries of Sweden. Beats where I live now.

Slashdot (0, Flamebait)

bonch (38532) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715469)

What a load of crap.

Having the judge be a member of copyright protection organizations isn't bias. Copyright is the law, and he's a judge...how is this a story? Hell, he might have been put on this case specifically because he knows copyright law very well. You guys need to accept this--Pirate Bay wasn't just a search engine like Google. It was also hosting the torrent tracker server that tracks the file chunks users were trading with each other. They offer the torrents, and they offer the server connecting the users, and they call themselves PirateBay...and you're defending it? You're surprised they were found guilty in court?

Nobody cares about the "Pirate Party." It's just a bunch of morons who signed up online out of spite and probably will never be heard from again.

Pirates will do whatever it takes to get their free ride back. They do as much as possible to avoid admitting guilt. You're ripping people off. You're the bad guy. You'll talk about the RIAA/MPAA until you're out of breath, you'll invent stupid justifications like piracy is "free advertising" or it's a "new business model," but it's all just a psychological justification to avoid admitting that you're guilty of doing something inethical. You never think about the people you're ripping off--the musicians, software developers, screenwriters, and so on.

The fact that Slashdot has become so militantly pro-piracy in the last decade is really disgusting. It was one thing to defend Napster, but now it's just bleedingly obvious that Slashdot is visited by a ton of selfish leeches who want to spend all day and night running Bittorrent apps, never even dreaming of paying somebody for their work. How would you like it if you were a software developer, and your boss didn't give you a paycheck one month because "information wants to be free," or "you can't 'steal' code," or some other stupid reason that pirates always give?

It's like you guys want to dig for oil forever and expect it to never run out. The piracy issue is finally coming to a head. You know it's illegal and wrong. There's no other reason you do it but that you're selfish like all humans and want something for free without paying money to its creator.

Re:Slashdot (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715559)

Exactly!

As you'll soon find out, /. PB advocates hide behind DRM and portability excuses (among other things). But then again, they think that a desktop OS with less than 1% market share is god's gift to humanity.

Re:Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715835)

>"they think that a desktop OS with less than 1% market share is god's gift to humanity.

Let me get this straight, you're saying that TBP user = Linux Advocate?

Have a look at the numbers. TPB's user numbers are immense, that traffic clearly isn't coming from "a desktop OS with less than 1% market share".
Most popular BitTorrent client? uTorrent on Windows XP x86. Hell of a lot of dodgy Windows .isos on torrent sites too..

Quite apart from which, what exactly is wrong with using torrents to distribute GNU/Linux?

and if you don't have money to begin with (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715587)

NEVER WAS A SALE TO LOSE

Well whaddaya know... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715611)

A living breathing RIAA troll. Right here on Slashdot.

HEY GUYS! COME SEE THIS! IT'S A RIAA TROLL WITH A 5-DIGIT UID!

Re:Slashdot (0, Redundant)

bonch (38532) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715615)

I knew my comment would be modded down. If you disagree with something, you should reply with your counterargument, not mindlessly try to silence me.

Re:Slashdot (4, Insightful)

vivaelamor (1418031) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716141)

Nobody cares about the "Pirate Party." It's just a bunch of morons who signed up online out of spite and probably will never be heard from again.

Uh, considering your whole post was as bad as this, I'm just surprised it didn't stay modded down.

Perhaps if you at least left out all the name-calling?

Re:Slashdot (5, Interesting)

the_womble (580291) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715617)

RTFA. The judge is a member (actually a director in at least one case) of organisations that are lobbying to change the law, to make what Pirate Bay did illegal.

Pirate Bay's lawyer's argue that what they did was not illegal. Is the judge, who is committed to making sure it is illegal, the best person to apply the law impartially?

Re:Slashdot (4, Insightful)

abolitiontheory (1138999) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715891)

Exactly. This judge is essentially speeding in order to change the speed limit. Instead of judging by the current laws and waiting for the legislature to change the laws which he can enforce, he is taking matters into his own hands and changing the law himself by stretching the law to cover the situation in the way he feels it should.

The question is: is this or isn't this simply what judges do they administer verdicts? Isn't just always inherently interpretive? Is judgment a referential or creative act?

Re:Slashdot (1)

n101jl (1110903) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716023)

So now the street corner that the hooker stands on is illegal. Better let all the local governments know about the potential consequences of not cleaning up their streets.

Re:Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27716057)

Hmm - and now another few questions...

Where is the money funding this organizations coming from? Does this judge get some payment out of these organizations? You know - to pay the "cost" of all the hard work?

It might be a good idea to follow the money trail. Maybe some surprises are looming in the dark...

Re:Slashdot (2, Informative)

drgould (24404) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715621)

Having the judge be a member of copyright protection organizations isn't bias. Copyright is the law, and he's a judge...how is this a story?

The specific issue is that (as I understand it) being an accessory to copyright infringement isn't, or wasn't, a crime in Sweden like it is in most other countries (I don't know if that's changed recently or not).

You may not agree with it, but judges can't (or shouldn't) go around making up laws.

Re:Slashdot (1)

MoonBuggy (611105) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715637)

I do agree with some of what you say, although as I've said before I can't really bring myself to show too much concern for the music and film industries. I don't download infringing content myself, and I would agree that all but a very small minority who do are in it simply for free stuff, but that doesn't stop me remembering all the greedy, harmful, anti-competitive and sometimes plain illegal activities of large media companies.

Having the judge be a member of copyright protection organizations isn't bias. Copyright is the law, and he's a judge...how is this a story?

Copyright is not, however, a single universally agreed upon subject. Personally I think a standard 15 to 20 year term from creation of a work is reasonable. Some people want to see it abolished completely. Others want to see it extended in perpetuity. If the judge openly takes a view in any one of those directions I would question his ability to remain impartial when considering the opinions of those diametrically opposed to him.

It was one thing to defend Napster, but now it's just bleedingly obvious that Slashdot is visited by a ton of selfish leeches who want to spend all day and night running Bittorrent apps, never even dreaming of paying somebody for their work.

Why do you consider Napster any different to Bit Torrent?

Re:Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715731)

Dude you should pull your head out of your ass. A judge who is a fucking board member of a pro-copyright lobbying organisation, working for the extension of copyright applicability and enforcement, discussing and being "educated" on these very topics by the very same people representing the plaintiffs in a trial that is touching the very borderlines of what is legal and what is not can IMPOSSIBLY be unbiased. Even if we assume he's such an outstanding fellow that he's not affected by the fact that his buddies are on one side, he's still biased by his sources of information. Also, how unreasonable is it to assume that the above discussions have already resulted in some kind of own opinion of what *should* be allowed and what should not? It would be strange if it hadn't.

A copyright lobbyist on the bench in a trial about copyright infringement is the same as a nazi judge in a shoplifting trial with the defendant being jews.

Article 7
        All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Judge being buddybuddy with the several people in the prosecution team, working with several of them and on the same "discussion club" discussing.. - tada - copyright enforcement and extension. Prosecution given amazing leeway during trial, including breach of evidence rules. "Equal before the law", indeed.

Article 10
        Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Yep, so fair that the court issues a guilty verdict along the lines asked for by the prosecution, *even though it has failed to prove that any crime actually has been commited*, or indeed even explain what has happened. In the verdict it still says that the material has been "distributed via the pirate bay". And that's just a few of the flaws.

Article 11

      1. Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
      2. No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

Yeah, right. Given that he's been colluding with the people on the prosecution about what should, in their dreams be legal and what shouldn't, I can really see him presume them being innocent.

Just get over your self-righteous shitheadedness, everyone have the right to a fair trial, even if we don't happen to like them. In fact especially people we don't like, and what we "think" or "don't think" should be legal should be left out, because such interpretations is the road to tyranny.

Re:Slashdot (5, Insightful)

NormalVisual (565491) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715851)

Keeping works from the public domain by means of effectively infinite copyright terms is more disgusting. It's also "stealing" in the literal sense of the word, without having to twist its meaning to jive with a political agenda like the pro-copyright lobby likes to do, and is a violation of the social contract that is the sole reason copyright exists in the first place.

Re:Slashdot (1)

n3r0.m4dski11z (447312) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715981)

"Piracy is nothing more than selfish humans leeching other people's work and not wanting to lose the free ride."

So content distribution is piracy? unlike the time warners and universals, at least internet pirates, at least the honourable ones, are not profiting from it. DJ's buy the records, people hit the concerts. Look at all them lego starwars videos that kids make for nothing but the note (hint: not a cash note).

Culture doesnt end. People profiting off of others work, can will and should end.

end of lesson.

Re:Slashdot (1)

blackest_k (761565) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716271)

I bet no one sings happy birthday to you do they, you'd have them arrested.

It's that kind of incredibly stupid copyright law which ensures there is very little respect for copyrights. That you can watch or record a TV program on your DVR if it goes to plan but getting a copy of the very same program from TPB thats illegal.

TPB is always going to be a popular cause for bringing a little light relief into many lives. To be honest the real profiteering from pirated content comes from the companies sending out the broadband bills each month. without the wide availability of pirated content do you think they would make even half the money they rake in each month.

Actually suppose pirated content did go away, then the only thing the ISP's could do is raise the broadband bills and thats going to cost you.
Did you ever consider that the pirates may well be subsidizing your broadband connection?

And how much are you paying to read Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27716331)

and how much are you getting paid for posting here? That's what I thought.

Seems like some people are willing to write stuff here just because they have something to say. Well, some people are also willing to play music just because they have music in them that they want to let out. There is tons of free music all over the net, put there by the artists themselves for the enjoyment of their fans.

There is also lots of music that isn't given away free but which is sometimes copied without authorization, which is what the lawsuit was about. You know what? If the people making that music simply quit and do something else instead, then the supply of non-free music may dry up, but we will do just fine without it since so much free music will continue to be made.

The question then is whether it is worth having a set of obnoxious and invasive laws just for the purpose of protecting the interests of the nonfree music industry. It is perfectly legitimate to say it's not worth it, if one is willing to accept (or even actively desire) the consequence that the nonfree music industry will shrink or even completely disappear.

Some of us might add, "don't let the door hit your butt on the way out".

Because it must be said... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715499)

Time to make this judge walk the plank!

Makes me wonder... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715529)

What would happen if the Somalian pirates would learn from this? It probably would be safer though. I can imagine them writing out forms and applying for permits before hijacking a ship. If they really learn to mimic the European Political kind of way, we should have a head-start of about 3 to 4 years every time!

So what? (0, Troll)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715577)

The judge is a member of copyright organizations. So? Isn't copyright the law? Knowing copyright law is probably why he's on the case.

I fail to see where the "circus" is. Frankly, I'm not sure why Slashdot has become so pro-piracy in the last few years, especially when Slashdot in its past has gone after other sites for copying its content--due to "copyright infringement."

Re:So what? (1)

Idiot with a gun (1081749) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715685)

To translate this out further to understandable terms, basically the judge had worked with several organizations that are the Swedish equivalents to the RIAA, MPAA, etc.

Re:So what? (5, Insightful)

MoonBuggy (611105) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715695)

The judge is a member of copyright organizations. So? Isn't copyright the law? Knowing copyright law is probably why he's on the case.

I'm not 'pro-piracy', although to say I'm 'anti-big media' would probably be fair. That said, copyright is not a single ideal and there are plenty of opinions on it's implementation. The groups that the judge is a member of take a view that the law should be changed to make copyright stricter - surely that presents a conflict of interests when dealing with a case that tests the limits of copyright law in the opposite direction?

Re:So what? (5, Interesting)

T Murphy (1054674) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715723)

As mentioned in other stories this past week, the judge was a member of some groups that have agendas, and is in a leadership position for two of them I believe. I think at least one group is, like you say, simply a means of staying on top of current issues and being aware of the law, but that is not the case for all the groups he belongs to. I'm not pro-piracy, but I'd rather the pirates win than have these big companies keep extending control over our governments.

Re:So what? (4, Insightful)

infalliable (1239578) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715743)

It is an obvious conflict of interest when you are presiding over a case and are a member of an organization that sides strongly with one of the parties in the case.

It is generally okay to be biased toward one side due to internal beliefs. Most people do tend toward one side in contentious issues, but to openly run around and say it or promote one side (via membership in pro- organizations) is inappropriate.

Re:So what? (4, Insightful)

russotto (537200) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716135)

Frankly, I'm not sure why Slashdot has become so pro-piracy in the last few years, especially when Slashdot in its past has gone after other sites for copying its content--due to "copyright infringement."

On the one side: Copyright infringers.
On the other side: Those who want to lock down personal computers and the internet, spy on same, lock down anything else which can reproduce sound or video, implement a pay-per-use system for everything, shut down DVD rental services, eliminate fair use, use lawyers to bully people (whether culpable or not), increase copyright terms to infinity less one day, etc.

Which side would you expect slashdotters to be on? You can argue there's a middle ground, but for various reasons I think there really isn't, and in any case is it really surprising getting binary thinking from a computer geek site?

Re:So what? (1)

dissy (172727) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716143)

The judge is a member of copyright organizations. So? Isn't copyright the law? Knowing copyright law is probably why he's on the case.

But that is exactly the point! Copyright is law. He should have judged the case based off that law.
If he knew his own countries copyright law, the trial would clearly have turned out different.
Judges don't MAKE laws, the interpret existing laws.

He decided on his own that the law needs changed to reflect the desires of the organizations he is a director of, and instead of going the legal route to get laws changed to make what was done illegal, so he could easily interpret what the pirate bay did was illegal, instead all he did was claim it was illegal when the fact still remains it is not.

It is perfectly OK to want change in the law. It is not OK for a judge to single handedly ignore the current law and just throw out a sentence that matches what he THINKS or WANTS the law to be, which is exactly what happened.

Technically speaking what the judge did would still be illegal even if he wasn't a member of any copyright organizations. It would just be effectively impossible to prove what he did was illegal then.

Does a lawyer exist that is not biased on IP? (1)

Chemosabe (1049664) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715645)

The way RIAA, MPAA, and their international sister organizations throws money and lawyers around, there cannot exist too many who have no affiliation with them...

Re:Does a lawyer exist that is not biased on IP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715841)

This concerns a judge, not a lawyer.

Wait a second ... WAIT A SECOND! (-1, Offtopic)

LordKaT (619540) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715679)

kdawson posted this.

KDAWSON!

What the fuck is going on here?!

It's the Lawyers. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27715707)

Another Lawyer who needs to be shot out of a cannon. It seems most Lawyers are a pox on humanity. They are the Mandarins of contemporary western civilization with a lock or death grip on every important facet of existence. We need about ten percent of the number we have now and must break their guild apart.

You don't say... (1)

karbonKid (902236) | more than 5 years ago | (#27715985)

"The Pirate Party now surpasses in size four smaller parties in Sweden" In other news, reseachers find that bigger mugs can hold more coffee..."

Re:You don't say... (1)

lyml (1200795) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716211)

It's a silly descriptor a more informing sentence would be: The Pirate Party is now the fourth largest party by member count surpassing four other parties in the Swedish riksdag.

God, what a fucking joke (-1, Troll)

GuloGulo2 (972355) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716063)

"Circus"?

By this you mean, "A bunch of idiots making stupid assertions because they lost and can't stand that the law says they're wrong"?

It's hilarious to watch you fucking losers describe this as a "circus" when you're the only clowns around.

NO ONE CARES. YOU LOST. STOP PRETENDING YOUR IGNORANCE AND PARTISANSHIP IS AN ACTUAL OBJECTION TO ANYTHING.

STOP WHINING LIKE A FUCKING TWO YEAR OLD AND FABRICATING WORTHLESS ASSERTIONS, YOU SOUND MORE PATHTETIC EVERY TIME YOU TRY

Re:God, what a fucking joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27716199)

By this you mean, "A bunch of idiots making stupid assertions because they lost and can't stand that the law says they're wrong"?

More like "an idiot on /. who doesn't actually understand the issues at hand, and then lashes out because he's a moron."

Here are he facts:

1. The judge has an *obvious* conflict of interest.
2. The judge refused to admit he has a conflict of interest.
3. After the conflict of interest was pointed out to the judge, he *still* refused to admit he was in conflict.
4. If you don't want people to think you're a clueless moron, you should read the fscking article before ranting about it.

Re:God, what a fucking joke (1)

GuloGulo2 (972355) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716275)

"More like "an idiot on /. who doesn't actually understand the issues at hand, and then lashes out because he's a moron"

I'm glad you admit it, but it's kind of lame to own up but not log in.

Strange Professor (2, Insightful)

lacoronus (1418813) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716067)

Prof. Hydén sums up by saying that to allow this kind of judgement the Swedish Parliament must first pass a bill making this kind of services illegal, which it has not done.

But this is exactly what the verdict claims, and the verdict does back it up with references to law, which, when read by a layman like me, seems to support the judge. In particular, the law on electronic commerce states quite clearly that a service provider is responsible for illegal data (like torrent files) stored on their system.

I am awaiting for the appeal to present some arguments against the verdict itself, and not just "the judge is biased because we lost".

Everyone claiming that the judge is biased, that the verdict is wrong - can anyone please present some arguments against the verdict itself?

For example: Why is the court wrong in finding that torrent files are accessories of a crime (copyright infringement)? Why is the court wrong in finding that paragraph 18 (services that store information - like torrent files - on behalf of clients and serve it) of the law on e-commerce applies to TPB.

Re:Strange Professor (2, Insightful)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716159)

I believe the principal problem with the verdict comes down to the following:

  1. Almost everyone pirates. Evaluate the truth of this yourself.
  2. Punishing one pirate is unfair - they must all be punished equally or none at all.
  3. They can't lock up the entire planet - everyone pirates.

The end result is self-referential and self-fulfilling. Once you buy into this it is logical that piracy cannot be punished and cannot be stopped. Therefore, enjoy! It is all free now.

Re:Strange Professor (3, Insightful)

lacoronus (1418813) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716281)

  1. Almost everyone pirates. Evaluate the truth of this yourself.
  2. Punishing one pirate is unfair - they must all be punished equally or none at all.
  3. They can't lock up the entire planet - everyone pirates.

(1) Yes. Hell, even Per Gessle, one of the Swedish artists that have made the most pro-copyright noise once filled eight iPods for his musical buddies so they could all get sync:ed up on what "sound" to go for. Of course, he just copied his own collection of music on those iPods. Piracy? Damn straight. Metallica? They used to tape records off each other all the time when they were kids. Piracy? Oh yeah. But if you think about it, were they (Metallica and Gessle) morally in the wrong? I don't think so. There's always been illegal copying - but none on the scale of TPB - and I think that's where the problem lies here. We are in a moral (not legal) gray zone with regards to TPB. While everyone does it, only TPB sets up a business and tries to make money off it.

(2) doesn't mean that they can't punish the pirates that are taken to court. For example, we can't punish all drug dealers (because there are so many of them), but we can punish those we catch. Punishing one pirate is only unfair if the courts find another innocent even though they have done the same thing. In regards to the Gessle case, that didn't go to court - and this I do find terribly unfair and immoral. But I can't find any legal fault with it.

(3) Yep. What we have here is a mix of new technology, a change in consumer patterns, a change in the entertainment market and laws written for another age and a different set of morals than what people have. That's why we have such a mess now. It's like doing four forklift upgrades all at once.

No, they can't (1)

GuloGulo2 (972355) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716171)

"Everyone claiming that the judge is biased, that the verdict is wrong - can anyone please present some arguments against the verdict itself?"

No, they can't.

Why do you think there is so much focus on ad hominem attacks?

If there were a sound legal theory behind their points they wouldn't be wasting their time with petty elementary school type characte assasination.

Pirate Party membership numbers (2, Interesting)

zyche (784345) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716093)

While the comments on the size of Pirate Party are correct, it can also be formulated slightly different: PP is, in the moment of writing, the fourth largest party in sweden (with respect to the number of party members). (source [piratpartiet.se] )

By the rate of new members, PP should pass 'Centern' in the coming week or something like that, and thus become the third largest party.

PP's youth organisation is (perhaps unsurprisingly) the largest by far (actually has more members than the second and third combined).

It should however be noted that party membership in Sweden is not widespread, thus the actual voting result in an election will not necessarily reflect the membership records.

If you would like to contribute to the cause (for nothing else than just to spite the big media companies), you can make a donation here [piratpartiet.se] .

While I'm not sure they deliver merchandise abroad, they have a small shop [piratpartiet.se] where you can buy the obligatory t-shirt. Yes, the revolution accepts Visa.

Oh well. (1)

Johnny Grep (255289) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716107)

Damn Swedish legal system - it's always bork, bork, bork!

Duped Lay Assessors (1)

lacoronus (1418813) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716111)

the judge has inappropriately 'duped and influenced the lay assessors' during the trial: 'a judge that has decided that "this is something we can't allow" has little problem finding legal arguments that are difficult for assisting lay assessors to counter.'"

I thought that's what defense attorneys were for.

You know, countering the accusations.

Re:Duped Lay Assessors (2, Informative)

justinlee37 (993373) | more than 5 years ago | (#27716325)

Yeah; the accusations of the prosecutor, not the Judge. From the way it sounds, the lay assessors merely help the Judge to interpret the law, regardless of which side of the argument they fall on. The substantive issue here is that the Judge might deliberately form all of his arguments to support the prosecutor, because he may be biased.

IANAL. Although I did do state-level Mock Trial competition in High School.

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