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Stardock Declares Victory Over Demigod Piracy

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the power-of-optimism dept.

Businesses 403

We recently got a look at some hard numbers related to the piracy of Demigod , a new game from Stardock and Gas Powered Games. Now, two weeks later, Stardock CEO Brad Wardell has essentially declared the game a success in spite of the piracy, and reaffirmed the company's stance that intrusive DRM is a bad thing. The game's sales figures seem to bear him out. Quoting: "Yep. Demigod is heavily pirated. And make no mistake, piracy pisses me off. If you're playing a pirated copy right now, if you're one of those people on Hamachi or GameRanger playing a pirated copy and have been for more than a few days, then you should either buy it or accept that you're a thief and quit rationalizing it any other way. The reality that most PC game publishers ignore is that there are people who buy games and people who don't buy games. The focus of a business is to increase its sales. My job, as CEO of Stardock, is not to fight worldwide piracy no matter how much it aggravates me personally. My job is to maximize the sales of my product and service and I do that by focusing on the people who pay my salary — our customers."

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One should never gloat (-1, Troll)

allaunjsilverfox2 (882195) | more than 5 years ago | (#27783975)

Especially when it comes to one's own product. It usually just encourages people to find ways to prove you wrong...........

Not really accurate (5, Insightful)

dreamchaser (49529) | more than 5 years ago | (#27783989)

He isn't gloating. He isn't saying they've beaten the pirates. He's saying the game is selling well despite them, and it is. There's a big difference.

Re:Not really accurate (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784173)

"Beaten the pirates?" I doubt any of those who download games illegally do it because they want to topple game developers. They do it because they think some games are not worth paying fifty bucks to get eight hours of gameplay. It's nonsensical to divide people into those who buy games and those who pirate them, because most often they're the same people.

Which has long been his position (5, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784205)

His argument for a long time has been that copyright infringement sucks, but it happens protections or not. However protections piss off your legit customers. Thus, since they don't stop copying and do piss off the people that pay, don't do them.

I think this is quite a good attitude. I mean yes, people copied the shit out of Demigod. People copy the shit out of most anticipated new releases so that shows nothing other than people are interested in the game. The interesting title to compare it to would be Spore. Spore was much more highly anticipated, however it had real whiz bang copyprotection: SecuROM 7 including online activation. To hear the talk on it, you'd think this was your 100% anti-copying solution. All sorts of nifty encryption and obfuscation and you have to connect to an online server! Ha, beat that shit pirates!

The result? A torrent with 5 digits worth of peers active on it on the Piratebay when it came out. Ya THAT was real effective.

So Demigod got copied all over, but still sells well and they spent $0 on copyprotection and didn't piss off legit customers with it. Spore got copied all over, and they spent a non-trivial amount on protection and pissed off customers.

I don't know how it'll all play out in the end. What I know is that I do own Demigod, and I do not own Spore. SecuROM 7 games can get fucked IMO. I don't play the limited activations thing. I like to be able to upgrade and reinstall my system, and I like to be able to play my games 10, 15, 20 years later (I still play Xcom).

Impulse? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784555)

So Demigod got copied all over, but still sells well and they spent $0 on copyprotection

Impulse?

I like to be able to upgrade and reinstall my system, and I like to be able to play my games 10, 15, 20 years later (I still play Xcom).

Better hope Impulse is around that long.

Stardock WAS the beacon of DRM-free games until Impulse came along.
Now they're just another STEAM. But for some reason everybody thinks they're still DRM-free.

Re:Which has long been his position (1)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784643)

You can't really say that Spore's DRM either inflated or had no effect on Piracy. It was always going to be massively torrented because of the immense hype.

Was the fear of not being able to use the online sharing driving more people to buy it than were driven away by the heavy DRM? It's incredibly hard to know.

Either way, Spore was a mediocre collection of half arsed mini games masquerading as a single revolionary piece of software. It didn't even feature evolution. Even Black and White didn't quite fail to live up to the hype as much as spore (B&W was good, it just had horrible level design, including getting rid of your creature on an early, long level)

Re:Which has long been his position (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784867)

You can't really say that Spore's DRM either inflated or had no effect on Piracy. It was always going to be massively torrented because of the immense hype.

What? For me it was

"Hey I got this brand spankin' new game, This is great! Let's try it out"

5 alert windows pop up saying "This program is attempting to do things to your computer that you may not want it to do"

"... wha?" Checked online and found all the DRM, Got pissed, and torrented it.

Yes, Logically I trusted a torrent, by some guy I never knew, more then the official product.

Re:Which has long been his position (1)

meerling (1487879) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784751)

Wanted Spore, but wasn't about to deal with their B.S. annoyance system. (My computer has been reformatted 3 times this year already. If I had Spore, I'd be out of 'installs' before much long. What can I say, betas aren't exactly stable...)

Demigod - I tried it, looks good, but I don't care for the game. Hope they sell tons of it to adoring fans, I'm just not one of them.

X-Com: Yeah, I still play those. They are great. There are several attempts at copying them, but I don't think they captured it good enough. The best, though incomplete still, is UFO Alien Invasion. It's free for download.

If X-Com had those same types of restrictive screw the customer D.R.M. schemes that so many current games have, we'd be playing pirate copies because our originals would be useless. (And to the smart@ss out there, CDs and Floppy Disks do NOT make usable drink coasters.) :-)

Re:Which has long been his position (1)

JosKarith (757063) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784943)

I still remember buying Psi-Ops cos' it looked great. I got home and the DRM system on it therew a sh1t fit cos... I had the temerity to own a DVD burner. So Psi-ops went back to the store and I bought something else.
Ffwd to last year. Spore sounded great, then I started hearing about its DRM system. Care to guess whether I even bothered to pick up the box and look at it? I just won't touch PC games with restrictive DRM systems anymore. I can't be bothered with all the hassle.

Re:Which has long been his position (1)

Jedi Alec (258881) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784965)

I don't know how it'll all play out in the end. What I know is that I do own Demigod, and I do not own Spore.

As someone who pirated Spore, decided it was overhyped crap and thus didn't buy it, would you recommend I'd spend my cash on Demigod? I'm getting mixed signals as to how much fun it is.

Re:Not really accurate (4, Informative)

montyzooooma (853414) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784723)

Brad Wardell knows how to play the PR game. A lot, not all but a lot, of his posts are designed to promote Stardock with a nicely packaged quote.

Nothing wrong with it but he's so inconsistent it's funny. A couple of months ago he was on his usual hobby horse about Steam not being the only service with great weekend deals, because Stardock had a decent offer on at the time. Since then their weekend deals have been non-existent and Steam has had some beauties, like the L4D half off sale or the Orange Box at 66% off. When Steam announced COG (I think), their "non-DRM" DRM solution, Stardock announced GOO which was the same idea. I actually thought that was an April fools joke but apparently not.

This current story is about Demigod hitting no. 3 in the retail sales charts on its first week of release. If it drops off the top ten next week will he post? Of course not. Being at No. 3 means being beaten by a couple of expansion packs for admittedly huge games, but if Demigod from Gas Powered Games was a real splash at launch why wasn't it number one? Pre-orders alone for a successful game should guarantee that.

Re:One should never gloat (4, Insightful)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784005)

Hey, come on now - he's a visionary standing up for our rights! [slashdot.org]

I don't care about the personality of the CEO, as long as he's providing me with DRM-free games I can play on any computer any time, without fighting with SecuCrap, ShitForce, or requiring a DVD.

The only thing I care about (as a gamer) is whether the game plays (excluding obvious stuff like the game should be fun :P ), and lately a lot of games just don't run. :/ I can't tell you how aggravating it is to buy a game, install it, and find out it crashes instantly with some error code related to the DRM.

Damn you EA. You suck.

Re:One should never gloat (5, Interesting)

RenHoek (101570) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784123)

I dunno, I'm still annoyed. I bought GalCiv and all the expansion packs because 1) they are great games and 2) because they were not copyprotected.

Later on they snuck online-hardware authentication into the game. So if they go out of business, and I upgrade to a new computer, I lose the games I bought.

That pisses me off to no end since this exactly the reason why I've still not played games like BioShock (due to the DRM).

So StarDock is in no way the champion that they were in earlier days.

Re:One should never gloat (2, Insightful)

Animaether (411575) | more than 5 years ago | (#27785095)

1. "I bought GalCiv ... they were not copyprotected."
okay, got it, what you bought was not copyprotected... you can install it, play it, and nothing gets in your way.

2. "Later on they snuck online-hardware authentication into the game."
I suppose that's by means of an update or something of the sort... okay, with you so far...

3. "So if they go out of business, and I upgrade to a new computer, I lose the games I bought."
and here you lost me, at least on technical grounds.

If at point 3 you can no longer play the game from point 2, could you still play the game from point 1? I presume that you can.
You'd have to argue that the game at point 2 is still the game from point 1 - and I'd argue that it isn't ; what if the developer went bust immediately after launch? you wouldn't have gotten any updates for point 2 to exist.. but you could still play the game from point 1.

So if point 3 should happen, nothing happened to the game you bought - you've still got it from point 1. You can't play it with the updates from point 2, but presumably you didn't buy those updates*.

Doesn't make what you mention any less troublesome - but in terms of what would happen to the games you purchased, in this case? Presumably not a whole lot.

=====

* Though more and more it seems that an implied part of the cost of purchasing a game is the 'privilege' to download major bugfix patches, often through some major gaming portal that will ditch that patch after a year or so and you have to hunt around to find the patch elsewhere.

Response to piracy (4, Insightful)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784129)

Games are easy to make. Gpogle for 'flash games' and you'll find 100,000 crappy little card games and Tetris clones. Good games are HARD to make. It costs real time from people with real talent who need to be paid in real money. The problem is that the costs of developing a game are not connected to the cost of replicating the game. The first copy of the game costs 5 million dollars. the second copy costs 4 cents.

Piracy isn't an issue until it's so rampant that those with the money choose to pirate anyway.

Would you pay 4 dollars to see a matinee? Would you buy a scifi novel for 6 bucks? Try comparing the time you spend enjoying each of these to the time you spend on a video game, and you'll find that the 40-50 dollars spent on a good game is surprisingly cheap!

I bought GTA San Andreas a long time ago. (years?) I picked it up again this last weekend and got another afternoon of fun out of it!

Don't be at all hesitant to buy a good game, even if you have a playable pirate copy - it's insurance for more fun in the future!

Re:Response to piracy (4, Interesting)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784223)

Most $40-50 dollar games give me significantly less enjoyment than a good scifi novel. A good novel might take me 10-40 hours to read. Most $40-50 dollar games cease to be interesting in less than ten hours, making then ten times worse value in terms of entertainment hours per dollar. Only MMOs make sense in the entertainment hours per dollar--even if you just play an hour a day they're damn cheap.

Obviously games vary a lot in this. Morrowind and the later Oblivion absorbed, minimum, a combined 1000 hours from my life over several years (and possibly as much as double that). Damn good values, damn good games, and I was damn willing to pay. World of Warcraft similarly has probably consumed around 2,000 hours of my life over the last four years.

But for every Counter-Strike, there's been Fable I-II, Spore, Black&White 1&2(Molyneux games have especially burned me, and I will not pay for them on principle anymore), Force Unleashed (ten hours play time and it was a glorified coaster.). These are just the ones I can think of recently. Too Human, Mirror's Edge, Dead Space (I was so excited that a survival horror game was being made, and so disappointed with the results), Every 3D Sonic Game, Every racing game made post-SNES...... .....the list goes on, and on and vastly outnumbers those games that were worthy of their price tag.

Most games are not good, and are not worth $40-50, no matter how shiny the graphics. You could run Spore on the fastest supercomputer ever built, past present or future, by any civilization in the galaxy and it would still be a pretty boring game. No matter how much the texture artists got paid.

Re:Response to piracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784333)

10-40 hours to read a novel? They write them 10.000 pages long these days?

Re:Response to piracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784407)

No idea why GP was modded troll, I think he has a valid point. Also; '10-40 hours to read a novel? They write them 10.000 pages long these days?' For the love of God it's a book not a race, people read at different speeds. I can think of several novels I have read that have taken quite some time to read.

Re:Response to piracy (1)

oji-sama (1151023) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784827)

True enough, and I've read a few books several times. There aren't many games that I've gone back to... Although there are many I've got very fond memories of.

Re:Response to piracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784433)

Don't forget, the majority of Americans are products of their public education system.

Re:Response to piracy (-1, Troll)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784707)

Don't forget, the majority of Americans are products of their public education system.

Those would be the ones that can read. From experience, privately-educated Americans are only just above functionally illiterate.

Re:Response to piracy (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784823)

10-40 hours to read a novel? They write them 10.000 pages long these days?

Your 10,000 page example is idiotic.

When one reads a novel one actually takes the time to read the words, one does not just glance at the page prior to turning it.

Reading a 10,000 page novel in 10 hours would be 1,000 pages an hour which would be 3.6 seconds per page.

Reading a 10,000 page novel in 40 hours would be 250 pages an hour which would be 14.4 seconds per page.

In your case I'll be charitable and say you might manage to plough through a ten page novel in ten hours.

Mod parent up (0, Redundant)

nyctopterus (717502) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784467)

This is absolutely correct.

Re:Response to piracy (2, Insightful)

DangerFace (1315417) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784745)

And the view I take supports this. I buy games in order to say "I like this game, make more of this." I also buy games in order to make it a statement when I don't buy Spore or Far Cry 2. For other games, I think it's important to note that just about everyone I know who pirates does it in two stages.

The first stage consists of "Am I going to buy this product? Do I have the money to buy it? Is it worth the money?" If the answer is yes then we buy it. If no then we move on to the next stage.

The second stage is simply "Do I want this product despite not being able to afford it / thinking it's not worth the money?" If no, then it is ignored - if yes, then it is pirated.

Now, I don't know about other people out there, but if you want to buy me every Nina Simone record ever, every Metallica record ever, blah blah until I have about 150 GB of 320 kB/s and less, then feel free. To me that wouldn't be a trivial amount of money, in fact it's more money than I have ever had. So either buy me the records yourself or recognise that piracy is not as big a problem as everyone not having infinite money.

Re:Response to piracy (1)

16Chapel (998683) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784581)

Just to add to that - I noticed this weekend that the Orange Box was selling on Steam for £5.99.

Say what you like about the DRM system, that is a hell of a good price for those games - that's many hours, some of the best games ever made, for the price of two pints.

Re:One should never gloat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784271)

EA are actually one of the lesser offenders since recent months. They seem to have got the hint and are dropping the level of DRM (iirc there's a couple of games they're trying with no DRM) and have released DRM removal tools for other existing games.

Other publishers like Activision are still just as bad, and the king of DRM right now is probably Valve with Steam, that said, EA look like they're going to release their DRM free games on Steam anyway which means they'll inherently have Steam's DRM so I suppose they're not doing away with DRM altogether.

The problem for consumers, and the benefit for games publishers of Steam is that it kills the second hand market and forces the requirement of internet access, of course the latter isn't much of an issue for most people nowadays.

Re:One should never gloat (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784201)

Especially when it comes to one's own product. It usually just encourages people to find ways to prove you wrong...........

Or corporations. Gamestop in this case. [kotaku.com] Although they were probably more motivated from a hissy fit at stardock daring to release it online, cutting out them as a middleman, when gamestop has faithfully treated PC games like garbage.

You first (-1, Troll)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#27783999)

If you're playing a pirated copy right now [..] and have been for more than a few days, then you should either buy it or accept that you're a thief and quit rationalizing it any other way.

First you admit that you're just a thug.

Re:You first (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784057)

He wasn't referring to you personally now, was he? There was an 'if' at the beginning of the sentence, and the man simply put his cards on the table...in straight English. Shouldn't be a problem for the rest of the crowd.

Do they still have the networking issue? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784017)

Is it now possible to play a round without one guy with bad networking destroying the whole game?

Was nearly flawless with GameRanger (1)

Scott Kevill (1080991) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784743)

Is it now possible to play a round without one guy with bad networking destroying the whole game?

Using GameRanger to play Demigod online made this possible from the start. The problems only occurred when you used their matchmaking infrastructure, Impulse.

Ironically... (-1, Flamebait)

caitsith01 (606117) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784029)

...the horribly broken multiplayer in Demigod is an example of exactly why many people choose to pirate games rather than pay upwards of $90 (in Australia, equivalent in your local currency) for broken software.

Stardock CEO Brad Wardell was unavailable for comment, although analysts have noted that he could afford to spend less time preaching and more time supervising the production of functioning games.

(It's actually great to see this attitude, but game companies would be in a much more defensible position if they released fully functional software, rather than late-stage betas. I know many people pirate games simply to find out whether a game works properly on their machine or not.)

Re:Ironically... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784115)

And how the fuck is that flamebait, oh dickwit moderators?

Re:Ironically... (5, Informative)

Scorpiana (255661) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784481)

Maybe this is flamebait because Brad Wardell has been posting a lot of information about the networking problems they had, how they didn't found them during beta and what they are doing about it.
In the first week, there was an update at least once a day, and even now he's still keeping the players updated about how far along they are, answering questions on the forum and helping players with connection problems.

Re:Ironically... (1, Insightful)

Ginger Unicorn (952287) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784861)

because it's likely to attract flames?

Re:Ironically... (1)

will_die (586523) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784501)

You are so right on that the on-line for demigod is worthless. I have tried multiple times, during and pre prime time, and have never been able to get into a game.
For a game that is almost all on-line, single player gets really boring after a few plays, that the on-line setup are so bad is something that should of been fixed before they shipped.

You have to be kidding. (4, Insightful)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784747)

Because a feature of a game is broken justifies pirating it?

You did exactly what he stated, you used whatever inane reason you could find to justify being a thief.

In other words, you declared yourself a victim and decided upon restitution you deemed appropriate, which apparently is that stealing other people's property is ok if it has a bug. What's next ? Unacceptable box art?

Game companies, actually any software company, do not have to attain a defensible position in regards to not wanting to have their products pirated.

What it really comes down to is that thieves will always find some justification. As soon as the their condition is met they will invent a new offense and thereby justify their continued thievery.

sorry, but your post sucks and that it was rated insightful is a disgrace to those of us who do programming for a living. I can't meet your high standards because they don't exist in any form that can be quantified thereby meaning anything I produce you want you will just take.

Re:You have to be kidding. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784779)

In other words, you declared yourself a victim and decided upon restitution you deemed appropriate, which apparently is that stealing other people's property is ok if it has a bug.

Um. Y'know, I'm certainly in favour of respecting copyrights (I'm a photographer, and I've also written (GPL'ed) tools as well as (CC-licensed) short stories, so in fact, I actually *rely* on copyright), but let's stay with the facts: copyright infringement is not theft, and it's not "stealing other people's property".

-1, Drank the Kool-Aid.

(And yes, I know, it's a point that always gets trotted out again when somebody confuses these things, no matter whether it's deliberately or out of ignorance. But as long as people still confuse them, it's worth trotting it out again and again, too.)

Re:You have to be kidding. (1)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784863)

True, it's not theft. Don't let that distract you from what he said, though. You can obviously substitution "copyright infringement" into his argument in place of "theft", and his point still stands. So while it's a valid correction, it doesn't in any way refute what he said.

Re:You have to be kidding. (1)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 5 years ago | (#27785009)

You could substitute 'purple monkey dishwasher' for thief. Whatever you call it, it's someone trying to argue that they should automatically have the rights of something that someone has put in a lot of time, effort and money into without any cost to them.

It's like crashing a wedding party. It doesn't usually actually cost the hosts anything but you're free-loading off of something someone else has paid for against their wishes.

Re:You have to be kidding. (4, Insightful)

Captain Hook (923766) | more than 5 years ago | (#27785083)

Shivetya Said

Because a feature of a game is broken justifies pirating it? You did exactly what he stated, you used whatever inane reason you could find to justify being a thief.

But Brad Wardell is quoted as saying...

if you're one of those people on Hamachi or GameRanger playing a pirated copy and have been for more than a few days, then you should either buy it or accept that you're a thief

sounds to me like Brad accepts at least some of the downloads are people trying out the game to check fun factor and playability. I guess it depends on your definition of pirate, downing to try out for a limited time is not in my opinion pirating, find you like the game, conituing to play but not paying for it is.

::bolded quote text my emphasis.

Re:Ironically... (1, Insightful)

tero (39203) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784801)

Huh? What?

You (or someone) thinks a game has a horribly broken feature A and therefore thinks it's ok to pirate the shit?
Excuse me but just as the quote says, you're trying to rationalize your thiefing.

If you think game is broken piece of crap, don't buy it. It doesn't give magically give you right to ignore copyrights and pirate it.

Legitimate users were told to use GameRanger (3, Interesting)

Scott Kevill (1080991) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784803)

...the horribly broken multiplayer in Demigod is an example of exactly why many people choose to pirate games rather than pay upwards of $90 (in Australia, equivalent in your local currency) for broken software.

Stardock recommended GameRanger [stardock.com] precisely because of the major multiplayer problems with Demigod's built-in matchmaking. The game's multiplayer itself played just fine through GameRanger. It's safe to say there would have been a lot more refund requests otherwise, and it took some of the heat off Stardock while they tried to address the problems.

They even added a download button for GameRanger on their Demigod page [demigodthegame.com] right next to the Impulse one.

Re:Legitimate users were told to use GameRanger (1)

will_die (586523) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784907)

Thanks, will have to give that a try tonight when I get home.

I like eggs (0, Offtopic)

bozojoe (102606) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784035)

Check out the huevos on Wardell!

Metcalfe's law (5, Insightful)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784053)

Won't something like Metcalfe's law also apply to games. The more people that play the game the higher the worth of the game. So while losing customers to pirated versions is bad (but I'd argue not too common and entirely unstoppable by DRM), gaining non-customers to pirated versions is actually good (not very good as you don't get any money) as it adds value to your game. In the case of multiplayer games this value is obvious (even if they can't play against legit version, they will help augment the community) and for single player games they may tell friends and eventually somebody they know who likes the game may pay for it.

It would be interesting if somebody could put a monetary value on pirated version (other than stupidly assuming every pirated copy is a lost sale)

Re:Metcalfe's law (1)

argiedot (1035754) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784119)

...for single player games they may tell friends and eventually somebody they know who likes the game may pay for it.

Ah, that's true, they may tell their friends, but they're likely to give their friends a copy too. I've never seen this phenomenon where one friend says, "Dude, this game is great. I got it from The Pirate Bay." and the other guy goes, "Hmm, maybe I should buy it." though maybe it's more prevalent elsewhere.

Re:Metcalfe's law (1)

NovaHorizon (1300173) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784227)

I've seen it. I have a couple friends where one would rather pirate because he doesn't keep playing for long, and another one who buys so he can have an actual case for it. Doesn't matter who found the game first either, though they don't always get the any game the other tells them about.

Re:Metcalfe's law (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784941)

I don't know how many people reveal their sources. At least when I recommend things I just say, " So-and-so is a great game (or show, or movie, or whatever) and I highly recommend it." I usually don't say whether I downloaded it or bought it, or even discovered it by random chance.

Re:Metcalfe's law (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784133)

It would be interesting if somebody could put a monetary value on pirated version (other than stupidly assuming every pirated copy is a lost sale)

I wonder if this could actually mean that publishers would actually start paying the early pirates who effectively help advertise the game and considerably increase future sales.

On second thought, I'll get my coat.

Re:Metcalfe's law (1)

zwei2stein (782480) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784503)

Definitelly, it is 2$.

Here is my reasoning:

a) Value of pirated item is basically what pirate would pay if pirating was not an option.

That is anytime from zero (zero being, be puts no value into item and would not even bother pirating it.) to several times of pricetag.

However, my observation is that 1-3$ DVDs on newstands here basically "ruined" piracy of whatever movies came out like that, sop rice would be around there.

Or:

b) Expenditures that pirate has to make to pirate.

That includes time (it take time to looup source, tap it and deal with resulting file), Knowledge (How-tos take some), Bandwidths costs (especially if you have fup caps), HD costs (that file has to sit somewhere), etc ...

For me, that would be around 2$, but i imagine that some basement dweller would price it for cents and on the other hand for someone else it would be hundreds of $ wasted time.

Re:Metcalfe's law (1)

TheTurtlesMoves (1442727) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784811)

The cost of server infrastructure is *very* expensive. Now you want to make that all available to a whole bunch of people who didn't pay and won't pay a cent. Thats not a good plan unless you do it with someone else's money. And even then its still a bad plan....

Maximizing profit or maximizing game development? (2, Insightful)

soporific16 (1166495) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784059)

Not everyone who buys a game is interested in helping develop the game, but surely there are those who can't afford to buy the game that are willing to donate time to develop the game (providing detailed feedback, etc).

What should we be focusing on? Maximizing profit or maximizing game development? or in other words - producing games to live, or living to produce games? I know which future i want ... and i want it now!

How to 'Beat' game piracy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784095)

Step 1. Make good games people like.

And that's it. Fuckin amazing how many companys worry so much about piracy. And they can't do step 1.

Re:How to 'Beat' game piracy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784787)

That's just nonsense. Either there is absolutely no good game anywhere or people will pirate anything no matter how good it is.

Every game gets pirated. Only the excuses why change.

Useless to get angry about it (0, Redundant)

bzipitidoo (647217) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784097)

So software piracy makes him mad? His anger is misplaced and irrational. Might as well be angry that the sun rises in the east, water flows downhill, and bears do their business in the woods. Copying is a fact of nature, and we will never get everyone to agree not to do it, nor would we want to. Seek out another business model, or suck it up and live with the current awful one.

But he's so mad that he blunders and calls pirates thieves. Isn't there a single advocate of so-called intellectual property rights who doesn't make the "copying = theft" mistake? Speeding does not a thief make, and neither does copying. He should instead be ecstatic that there are enough people willing to donate to keep his business in the black.

Re:Useless to get angry about it (0)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784175)

He's a guy who thinks he can make bits not copyable.. that's like making water not wet.

Re:Useless to get angry about it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784177)

Speeding does not a thief make, and neither does copying.

You're reasoning is infallible.

While I agree that piracy is as inevitable as the Sun rising in the east, getting angry at millions of people illegally copying your intellectual property is definitely not the same as getting angry at the sun.

At least this guy is against invasive(useless?) DRM, and in that I support him wholeheartedly.

Re:Useless to get angry about it (2, Insightful)

Artraze (600366) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784217)

> the "copying = theft" mistake

From the definition of steal, courtesy of dictionary.com:
2. to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
3. to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance

Def #2 makes illegitimate copying theft pretty much by definition, but even if you want to interpret that as only "ideas" and not "intellectual property", then #3 will cover it with its fairly broad "to ... get ... insidiously".

So yes, copying is, in fact, theft. Maybe not in the same way as stealing a car is theft, but I don't see him saying it is.

Re:Useless to get angry about it (2, Informative)

RzUpAnmsCwrds (262647) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784337)

The problem is the word "appropriate". Appropriate means (m-w.com):

1. to take exclusive possession of

But you cannot take exclusive possession of "intellectual property", because it's not really property at all. In a world without scarcity, the concept of property has no meaning.

The third definition is extremely broad - winning the lottery is clearly not theft, but it clearly happens "by chance" and therefore meets the definition. So does buying a gift in secret.

I'm not here to argue that copyright infringement is acceptable. But the reality is that the rights granted to copyright holders are much more limited than the rights granted to property owners. Copyrighted works are not "property" because you can't own an intangible work. You can be granted a limited monopoly on the reproduction, exhibition/performance, and distribution of that work for a limited period of time.

Re:Useless to get angry about it (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784691)

1 : to take exclusive possession of : annex
2 : to set apart for or assign to a particular purpose or use
3 : to take or make use of without authority or right

I always love the guys who argue definitions while quoting from the dictionary, except forgetting to include ALL the definitions...especially the ones that show they are wrong. See definition #3.

Re:Useless to get angry about it (2, Insightful)

muuh-gnu (894733) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784947)

#3 is bullshit, since it more depends on the definition of a right, not on the definition of theft itself.

Using the logic that ignoring someone elses artificial (its not natural nor consensual, remember) "right" on something _you_ already possess you then could also argue that William Wallace was "stealing" when he refused to hand over his wife to get fucked by the english occupying forces who installed themselves an exclusive artificial right "ius primae noctis". Also a slave running away from his owner would be "stealing" because the slave obviously does not have the "right" to run away. Marital infidelity also could be "stealing" of someones exclusive "sex right" in jurusdictions where extramarital sex is not allowed.

The right to share information with other people is inherent, it doesnt have to be explicitely granted. Like your right to have sex. You dont first need somebody to "allow" you to have it. The right you think of, the copyright, is not a real right, but a _removal_ of other peoples rights to freely exchange information (or bodily fluids) with each other, ie a communication ban, i.e. censorship. Ignoring censorship "rights" isn't stealing, no matter how much you'd like to call it so.

Re:Useless to get angry about it (2, Informative)

Sobrique (543255) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784525)

The UK legal definition of "theft" is: A person shall be guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.
I would be very suprised to find the US definition was not much the same.
That 'permanently depriving' bit though, means copyright infringment can never be theft.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1968/pdf/ukpga_19680060_en.pdf [opsi.gov.uk]

Re:Useless to get angry about it (1)

sy5t3m (1349857) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784529)

Because you seem to have missed part of definition 3, here's the full quote:

to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend.

I can't remember the last time I saw somebody in court charged with theft of a girlfriend (outside of Suadi or Iran). Nor can I remember any arrests under the definition of "to move, bring, convey, or put secretly or quietly", for gaining a point in a game through strategy, chance or luck, or for "stealing" attention.

Maybe that's because the definitions used in law are not the same as those used in the dictionary. If they were, we could accuse Brad Wardell of being a murderer because he made a quick profit, which is a definition of killing from dictionary.com

The word under discussion is not "steal" though, but "thief". http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Thief [thefreedictionary.com]

THIEF, crimes. One who has been guilty of larceny or theft.

Look up both larceny and theft there, and you'll see they involve the taking of property. Making a copy of something does not involve removal of the original from the owners possesion.
On the same subject, making a copy does not involve "copyright theft", unless you happen to have taken away the rights of the creator. The way big studios use hollywood accounting [wikipedia.org] to swindle writers for instance.

This does leave a slight problem for people who like to rant about piracy though.

either buy it or accept that you're a copyright infringer and quit rationalizing it any other way

doesn't sound quite as good as calling people thieves.

Re:Useless to get angry about it (1)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784977)

Since a thief is really "one who steals," (Webster) your whole argument is moot. He didn't charge the people with "theft" in a courtroom; he called them thieves. Get over it. It's perfectly sensible in that situation.

Oh, and "piracy" includes copyright infringement, not just boats. a couple hundred years of English says so.

Re:Useless to get angry about it (1)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784625)

3. to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance

Last week I stole £300 by betting on the horses.

Re:Useless to get angry about it (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784815)

You're trying to beat a regular dictionary into something else.
2. covers "I had this great idea, but my coworker stole credit for it"
3. covers "He stole second base", "He stole a kiss" and "They stole the win through sheer luck"

If you don't want to talk in pictures about things that really aren't stealing, a conservative definition as found in a legal dictionary is:
"STEAL - the wrongful or willful taking of money or property belonging to someone else with intent to deprive the owner of its use or benefit either temporarily or permanently. No particular type of movement or carrying away is required. Any appreciable change in the location of the property with the necessary willful intent constitutes a stealing whether or not there is any actual removal of it from the owner's premises."

It's pretty clear that it refers to physical property and that "take" and "deprive of" requires removing it from the owner's possession. All you have done is fallen for the propaganda that a collection of immaterial rights with a right's holder is also "property" with an "owner". If holding those rights were permanent and equal to property as they profess we should still be paying the cavemen who invented the wheel, Gutenberg and the guy who made the first BLT sandwich. If they take one extreme people will take the other, and when that snaps there'll be an "IP" revolution.

Re:Useless to get angry about it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27785071)

You deprived them of the licensing fee that others had to pay. While the actual property holding (Demigod) is still in possession of the copyright owner (Stardock), the revenue from you entering a license agreement is gone.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that since software is a license rather than ownership, using the software without compensation could technically be argued as theft. Stardock is providing their end of the contract (software), but you are not upholding yours (monetary exchange).

Re:Useless to get angry about it (1)

ultranova (717540) | more than 5 years ago | (#27785067)

Def #2 makes illegitimate copying theft pretty much by definition, but even if you want to interpret that as only "ideas" and not "intellectual property", then #3 will cover it with its fairly broad "to ... get ... insidiously".

#3 also seems to cover winning in lottery: "to ... get ... by chance".

So yes, copying is, in fact, theft. Maybe not in the same way as stealing a car is theft, but I don't see him saying it is.

That kinda reminds me of the radical feminist argument that all heterosexual sex is rape, because there is a power difference between the partners and therefore consent is not possible (which is not only a non-sequiter, but would also apply to any sexual relationship, but I guess radical feminism isn't really famous for logical coherence). Changing the meaning of words is a wonderful way of winning arguments.

Re:Useless to get angry about it (2, Insightful)

thesandtiger (819476) | more than 5 years ago | (#27785075)

According to that definition, when I was given a free Nintendo DS and 10 games because I won a raffle, I stole it - "to take, get or win [...] by chance"

For completely not-creepy reasons, the local teen center turned me into a criminal!

You mean 'shit'. (2, Insightful)

MrMista_B (891430) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784275)

Bears don't do 'business' in the woods.

Bears do, however, shit in the woods.

Just, y'know, when people start cringing from /language/, then we truly are doomed.

Re:You mean 'shit'. (3, Funny)

clickclickdrone (964164) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784487)

No, he meant 'business'. I've seen them there, calculators in paw, piles of paperwork, consultants, the lot.

If you like what he's done.... (5, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784135)

If you like what he's done, you ought to contact the company and let them know how you feel [stardock.com] . We complain enough here on slashdot, sometime it's nice to be positive for a bit as well. We ought to encourage those who do cool things.

Re:If you like what he's done.... (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784187)

hehe.. if you like copy protection then you probably should go talk to a professional..

Re:If you like what he's done.... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784197)

Or better yet, buy a copy then tell them why.

Demigod = DRM (4, Informative)

Electros (1166421) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784171)

I'm not sure how this company can say they sell plenty of copys despite DRM, and that they don't use DRM. I personally bought demigod and they use Impulse (Steam basically) which I was forced to install on my pc and authenticate by phoning home to play online not to mention I have to keep this 3rd party app open if I wish to ever play. Demigod is really only a multiplayer game. your options for single player are playing against bots. The pirates playing on hamachi are probably minimal for the same reason few people play dota on hamachi to get around a wc3 cd key. Also I should add that when I bought this game I couldnt even logon for 3 days, because the cdkey in my package was in use (This seemed to be an issue for MANY people) and I had to send about 7 emails to tech support and take pictures of my friggen case and cd to prove I wasn't a "Pirate"

Re:Demigod = DRM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784207)

Supposedly there are tons of people on garena (centralized hamachi) playing dota.

But yeah, Demigod is pretty devoid of content even for a multiplayer game.

You = RMS (5, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784605)

Seriously, this stance on DRM is like the RMS stance on openness "Unless everything is 100% my way, no compromise it is WRONG!"

No, Demigod isn't DRM'd. The DVD is a standards compliant DVD with no trickey shit. The game installs and runs with no checks of any kind.

Online play requires authentication and use of an online server? Oh well stop the presses I mean that hasn't happened with except, well, maybe every online game ever. As to if something like that is DRM is rather a semantic argument. Sure it does require a legit copy, but then the anti-DRM stance was never supposed to be about being allowed to illegally copy things, now was it? Needing to log in to a central server to play is a feature many games have simply for player convenience. Heck I remember when Gamespy first got started it was because the whole decentralized server thing with games like Quake was a problem. How did you find people to play with? So there was a 3rd party "central server" created that all the distributed servers talked to. Newer games are just having their own central service.

Finally no, you needn't run Impulse to run the game. Impulse has it's little "Impulse now" thing that it likes to run, but all that does is check for patches. Shut it down if you like (there's an option to tell it not to load on startup). You can run the game without Impulse, or without a net connection for that matter.

The point here is that if you are going to cast things like having a CD key and using a central matching service in the same category as SecuROM and such, then you are effectively making you definition of DRM meaningless and running off in to zealot territory. The reason you should, as a gamer, be anti-DRM is because it makes games not work. Like you take these recent games with SecuROM that you can only install 3 times, ever. After that, you are done. THAT is DRM and that is a problem. Wanting you to have an account on their online play service to play online is not DRM.

Gamers need to be a little reasonable here because remember, as with all things, there is a balance of rights. Yes, you should have the right to buy a game and play that game for as long as you want in the way you want. You shouldn't have some DRM program getting mad because you installed it too many times or because it doesn't like your CD drive. However the developers have rights too. They have a right to try and make sure people aren't illegally copying their game, and they certianly have a right 0ot make sure those people who do illegally copy it can't make use of the services the company provides for it. It shouldn't be an all or nothing situation on either side.

I'd liken it to freedom of speech. Yes, you have the right to freedom of speech, however your right to freedom of speech can't interfere with my right to freedom of association. What that means if you are free to speak your mind, but not in my living room if I don't want you to. I am free to ignore what you say. Yes, that does limit your rights in a small way. You don't have the right to force me to listen to your views, however that is a necessary limit on your rights to preserve mine and one I think we can all agree is reasonable.

So you need a balance in games rights too. Demanding no DRM is fine when DRM means "Shit that interferes with rights I should have." Demanding no DRM is not fine when DRM means "Anything you do that I don't approve of."

Re:You = RMS (1, Insightful)

Imrik (148191) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784737)

DRM = Digital Rights Management

In other words, anything intended to protect the rights of the owners of the data is DRM. Some DRM is particularly bad, like SecureROM and some is less problematic, like CD keys. All of it, however, is DRM.

Re:You = nothing to do with RMS (1, Insightful)

bit01 (644603) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784763)

No, Demigod isn't DRM'd.

And in the very next paragraph:

Online play requires authentication

You're full of it.

If the game requires any form of authentication to unlock any significant functionality then it's DRM'ed. End of story.

It has nothing to with RMS. Nothing to do with zealotry. It's DRM. That's "Digital Rights Management".

You can try rationalizing the DRM all you like whilst pretending that somebody can still "buy" the game but you know full well that when somebody doesn't have control of their own keys it's just another form of rental.

Some people are happy to rent. Many aren't, no matter how hard the marketers and assorted astroturfers try to dissemble.

---

Adopt an astroturfer [wikipedia.org] . Make their life hell.

Re:You = nothing to do with RMS (0, Troll)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 5 years ago | (#27785065)

So unless you have full control over THEIR servers, it's DRM? Anti cheating measures? DRM! unique usernames? DRM! not allowing incompatible out of date versions on the server? DRM!

It is exactly about RMS Zealotry. When you're connecting to an eternal server, it's no longer about your software, it's now their server and their software and the user doesn't have any automatic rights to it.

DRM is about your software and your PC. Not about services provided on someone else's systems.

Re:You = RMS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784817)

No, Demigod isn't DRM'd. The DVD is a standards compliant DVD with no trickey shit. The game installs and runs with no checks of any kind.

Activate via Impulse?
Patch via Impulse?
That'd be DRM.

Online play requires authentication and use of an online server? Oh well stop the presses I mean that hasn't happened with except, well, maybe every online game ever.

Except for most (all?) of the games from id Software [wikipedia.org] .
Some other games too (see Gamespy3d [gamespy3d.com] ):

Battlefield 1942, America's Army: Operations, Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast, Global Operations, Command & Conquer: Renegade, Medal of Honor, Operation Flashpoint, Serious Sam 2nd Encounter, Aliens vs. Predator 2, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, TRIBES 2, Serious Sam, No One Lives Forever, Baldur's Gate II, Quake III: Team Arena, RUNE, Elite Force, KISS Psycho Circus, Soldier of Fortune, Quake, Quake II, Quake III, Unreal, Unreal Tournament, Half-Life, Tribes, Daikatana, Battlezone 2, Rogue Spear, Drakan, Codename: Eagle, Kingpin, Shogo, Sin, Blood 2, Wheel of Time, Hexen II, Heretic II, Turok II, Descent III, and even Deer Hunter 4!

Most of those games have no form of activation.

"after 20 years of experiment, .." (1, Insightful)

muuh-gnu (894733) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784225)

> The reality that most PC game publishers ignore is that there are people who buy games
> and people who don't buy games.

Thats what always puzzled my about filesharing haters: Why _do_ some of them bother at all, if they make enough money, that somwhere on the other side of the world, maybe also on some other planet, two people he never knew and will never know shared their stuff?

> accept that you're a thief and quit rationalizing it any other way.

And promptly, he delivers the answer himself. Just another delusionist trying to shoehorn the planet into his business model. Copying a piece of information from your neighbor is not a theft. Yes, you do get something for nothing, but thats the whole freaking point of a copying machine. Endless supply for everybody. It does not automatically imply (although he would undoubtely like the thought) that you suddendly owe the creator of the original "as if" the piece was a physical product which cost money to produce. You first have to bend your mind heavily, internalize this "as if" concept almost religiously (which happens automatically if "as if" would make you money) in order to overlook the difference. The copying machine works only one way. Yet, the delusionists still think that the money (i.e. the wealth) they should get in exchange for providing input pieces to the copying machine has either to be multiplied at the same rate (i.e. an astronomical one, no less), or else the copying machine has to be smashed in order to _not_ bring wealth to everybody.

"after 20 years of experiment, practically all arguments are now against the internet."

The quote (that didnt fit into the subject line) is a conclusion from a recent article by one of germanys largest newspapers (Frankfurter Allgemeine), which is usually known for lobbying heavily for tougher IP laws. I always knew our grandgrandgrandfathers were right back then! General Ludd was the man! Lets finally get breaking some damn copying machines again!

Try and buy or try and ditch (4, Insightful)

Aceticon (140883) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784231)

As I see it, pirating a game is only excusable if you're doing it to try it, after which you either buy it or stop playing.

Just recently I did this with Galactic Civilizations II - I downloaded it, played it for a while, liked it, went out and purposefully bought the game: Stardock got another sale when, had I not had a chance to check the game, they would have gotten nothing (I don't trust the industry - been burned once too many by some of the over-hyped turds they put out)

Way too many games out there come out not working well or not at all. The game reviews press is no help at all - they'll give glaring reviews to games which are pretty enormous turds, and conveniently forget about the bugs and lack of long term playability.

In my view, it's not at all morally reprehensible to pirate a game for testing - as long as you buy it if you keep playing it.

Re:Try and buy or try and ditch (-1, Troll)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784319)

As I see it, pirating a game is only excusable if you're doing it to try it, after which you either buy it or stop playing.

You're still breaking the law.

So, clearly, you must believe that breaking the law when you don't agree with it is ok, so long as you feel morally justified. Surely, you admit that not everyone shares your view of morality.. so you must be ok with other people breaking the law so long as they feel morally justified.

So don't get uppity about people warezing games for non-trial purposes.

Re:Try and buy or try and ditch (1)

Nightspirit (846159) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784321)

Like Neverwinter Nights 2. That game was barely playable with average gamer hardware but received 9.0+ reviews.

NWN2 and Demigod (1)

Phazm (629398) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784441)

I agree.
Neverwinter Nights 2 was the biggest disappointment I've had in a game during the last few years. Since NWN 1 was such a blast; an old group of friends who played D&D together years before got it near the release date but since the game paused for everyone as soon as one player talked to an NPC. It made the experience hard to enjoy.
Some feats in the manual weren't included in the game it shipped with (volley).


Demigod? This game rocks so far from what I've played - 3 days straight.

The game is well-balanced and the style of rpg/strategy is very refreshing. They have an amazing start to a game that I hope they continue to support so a strong community develops.

They just need to add a few more features;
-Replays
-Multi-player Game Filtering (like TF2)
-Tutorial / Single-Player Campaign that introduces each Demigod
-Ability to click on the minimap to zoom the screen to that location

Did I miss any features that should be included? (perhaps in a patch)

Re:Try and buy or try and ditch (4, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784537)

The hardware thing is a real problem because there is no standard for what counts as "minimum" and "recommended". I mean sure every game lists though, but what they actually mean by it varies wildly. Some games are nice and realistic. Their "minimum" means "The minimum hardware you'll need to enjoy playing the game." You find that if you meet the minimum spec, no problem, you gameplay is good. You can't crank everything up, but you still have no play problems. Doom was a game I remember like that. My computer was right at the minimum spec, but it still ran well.

Well other games are very unrealistic. "Minimum" means "Minimum to get the game to execute, but don't bother trying to play it'll suck." Sometimes even the "recommended" means "Recommended to be even somewhat playable but you are still going to have lots of problems." Ultima 9 was one I remember like this. When my roommate at the time got it he had just about the highest end system money could buy, which met or exceeded the recommended specs, and it still ran like shit.

So I do sympathize with people because it's a real problem. We really do need some kind of standard in the game industry so that you can look at the required specs and get a feel for how your system will actually do with a game. If a game needs top notch hardware there's nothing wrong with that, however it needs to be clear. People need to be able to have some confidence that a game will work well on their system.

Re:Try and buy or try and ditch (0, Troll)

heavygravity (160241) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784327)

I absolutely agree. I download unauthorized versions of some games, and if I like them, then I buy them. It's just too hard to know if a game is a waste of time/money without trying it out. Yeah, you can try a demo. But most of the time demos really just don't cut it when you want to decide about buying a game or not. It's a lot the same for me as if I were to go to a friend's house and play a game they already bought. If I realize it's a piece of crap after a few hours, then there is no way I'd buy it. But if it engages me and I decide I like it, I will buy a legit copy. I don't know why companies would have a problem with this.

Re:Try and buy or try and ditch (5, Informative)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784349)

Way too many games out there come out not working well or not at all.

Yep, and how many of those games don't work well because of DRM? Possibly a lot. I HATE DRM (I am agreeing with you, by the way, I think).

Why? Do I pirate games? No. I have a whole shelf full of legally purchased games. Some of these games I can only install a set number of times (I am looking at Far Cry 2 as an example, I had to reinstall XP because I felt like but didn't remember I had to first "revoke" my FC2 activation... there goes one install straight away). Now, continuing with the example, I don't particularly like FC2 and I doubt I will want to reinstall it in 5 years. But, that is MY CHOICE to make. It shouldn't be the publishers choice.

DRM takes my (legal) choices away from me, and the publishers are using piracy as an excuse. Do I want to sell my copy of CoD World at War? Not at the moment, but I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO. Thanks.

Re:Try and buy or try and ditch (1)

abigsmurf (919188) | more than 5 years ago | (#27785105)

And you are prevented from buying the game then downloading the crack because...

Re:Try and buy or try and ditch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784491)

I often do the exact oposite of this, i bought a copy of x3 reunion, took one look at the drm and downloaded a cracked version. So i paid for the game but have never actually installed it from the disc itself as the cracked version has no drm and doesnt require a disc in the drive to play.

I do agree tho, many games don't have demos (or have demos with drm, which i don't understand the point of, demos are free right?) anymore and to spend 50£ on game that you have no idea if you will like or even if it works properly (im looking at you EA) is too much of a gamble for me.

The problem is that many of us have become jaded with the amount of polished turds that are thrown our way (mirrors edge), the amount of movies where ALL of the good bits were in the trailer. I would never buy a new processor or gfx card without some research yet many companies expect us to buy our media blind and be thankful for the chance to throw our cash at them.

Re:Try and buy or try and ditch (1)

Djehuty3 (1371395) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784731)

So as you know - Egosoft (or rather, Deep Silver) released a patch (2.0.2 if memory serves) which removed the DRM from that - if you purchased the 2.0 version, Starforce was already removed.

thief? (1, Insightful)

Jessta (666101) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784457)

He used the term thief:

thief, noun,
a criminal who takes property belonging to someone else with the intention of keeping it or selling it.

which by it's definition doesn't apply in this situation.

I'll accept the use of the word piracy as it has widespread use as relating to copyright infringement but I do think it's rather ridiculous to compare copying data to theft and murder on the high seas.

Re:thief? (1)

guyminuslife (1349809) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784623)

The more appropriate term, rather than "thief," might be "freeloader."

Re:thief? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27785115)

Or breaking a contract, since software is licensed.

As much as you guys want to believe you own software, if you read on what you really get it's just a license to play the game.

More a PR success than sales (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784679)

I submit that the whining about initial piracy drove traffic to their site and got a lot of peple who had never heard of the game to download and buy it.

It worked for World of Goo and that guy who did the shitty management games, so Stardock just wanted to get some of that.

This sort of PR coup is not a sustainable business model.

Yeah, right (0, Offtopic)

Luc1fel (1469805) | more than 5 years ago | (#27784851)

1. Good games always sell good. It's a no-brainer conclusion that just seems to evade some game developers. There are numerous cases of games with no or little protection selling quite well despite being easy to pirate.

2. I would even consider buying Demigod if it wasn't a paying bad imitation of DotA. DotA as a map is free. Looking at the amount of content available in a free map (I've had Warcraft 3 and Frozen Throne for years now), Demigod is piss-poor copy with no rational reason to give money for less content.

You've taken a good concept, and tried to make money on it (despite not being able to copy the quality). So, be happy that your game sells at all.

EVERY DOWNLOAD IS A LOST SALE (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27784995)

WAKE UP FAGGOTS every copy downloaded is a lost sale.

fuck you caps filter.

the real problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27785017)

(IMHO) Is that this game didnt have (or hasnt yet) a global release.
I cant buy this game legally until the 15th May!

I didnt even know it existed until the first Slashdot story about its initial piracy. (ok, so thats possibly my fault).

I do wonder if the fact that it cant be bought in the UK has had any effect on the number of 'pirates' in this region.

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