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Soy-Based Toner Cartridges?

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the it's-green-they-say-on-the-far-side-of-the-hill dept.

Printer 389

Jon.Laslow writes "I'm getting a lot of pressure from managers to switch to soy-based toner cartridges for our laser printers because they are 'greener.' The problem is, the only information I can find on them is from sales pitches; and the reviews all seem to be user testimonials. Do you have any experience soy-based printing products? Did you have any issues with them, and how was the print quality?"

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Buy one... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826693)

...and let us know.

First Post (-1, Troll)

Candera (914926) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826697)

First Post

Soy Printers ? (1, Funny)

parallel_prankster (1455313) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826699)

Your sales pitch will be corny with soy based printers

Re:Soy Printers ? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826769)

Uhhhh. Soy isn't corn.

Re:Soy Printers ? (1, Funny)

RuBLed (995686) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827023)

Yup, they're people.

Re:Soy Printers ? (4, Funny)

mrmeval (662166) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827177)

I prefer soylent toner.

Re:Soy Printers ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27827211)

Yes soylent is much greener, I agree.

This message (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27827323)

...is brought to you by Soylent red and Soylent yellow, high energy vegetable concentrates, and new, delicious, Soylent green. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.

new to me (5, Informative)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826701)

To be honest, I hadn't even heard of this. This article [rechargermag.com] says the very first cartridges just became available at the end of last year. Amazon has them [amazon.com] but it looks they all come from one company (the one mentioned in the article I linked) and I couldn't find any reviews or comments. I did notice that as far as I can tell they are the only company selling soy based toner cartridges and they only sell them for HP right now - though I guess they plan to add others in the future. That may solve your issue right there though, unless you own the right printers.
 
Interestingly enough the link in TFA doesn't seem to point to a company that does anything other than refurbish and refill toner cartridges with regular toner. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see a thing about soy based toner. I'm sure someone will point me in the right direction on that if I'm mistaken.
 
So I'd be interested as well in hearing if anyone has actually used this yet, but unless it has been an immediate disaster it doesn't seem that enough time has passed to tell how well it is going to work.

Re:new to me (1)

squiggly12 (1298191) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826729)

I'd be interested in knowing if these things don't just "magically" lose their toner like their counterparts.

Sure, I have a POS ink jet, but damn, after about 3 months all the fucking ink is gone.

Note to self: maybe print more? /facepalm

Re:new to me (1)

russ_allegro (444120) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826899)

Ink is not toner. Your ink jet will lose it's ink it evaporates or something. If you got a laser printer instead of a ink jet, your toner will last a long time, toner is not liquid ink.

Ad absurdium (5, Insightful)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827073)

Let me get this straight...

You build an extremely precise little box out of highly refined metals, circuit boards and PCBs, manufactured from parts made all around the world before being shipped thousands of miles to your local Staples, and you're worried about the half ounce of INK!?!?!

That's like cuttng calories by skipping the cherry on your triple scoop ice cream sundae!

Want to go green? Use CFLs. Replace your shower heads. Bike to work. Email instead of printing. Open windows rather than hit the thermostat. Use GotoMeeting rather than fly. Plant some trees on the South side of your home and office buildings. Buy your food from a local Farmer's Market rather than the mega-mart to avoid 'fresh' food from Argentina or some other place 4,000 miles away in refrigerated containers.

When the ink jet containers themselves are made of soy, and the mfgs standardize their cartridges so that reuse is more feasible, I'll take notice. Otherwise, this flavor of 'green' is idotic.

Buy Soy ink because it's better, lasts longer, or is cheaper and don't delude yourself with false green.

Re:Ad absurdium (1)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827103)

I didn't build anything. I certainly didn't ship anything thousands of miles to my local Staples. And I'm not worried about ink.

And I like cherry so I have a diet coke with my triple scoop ice cream sundae and save calories that way.

I do most of that other stuff you mention - but thanks for the reminder.

Re:Ad absurdium (0, Offtopic)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827257)

I didn't build anything. I certainly didn't ship anything thousands of miles to my local Staples. And I'm not worried about ink.

You did both by proxy by purchasing ink-jet cartridges. Without the demand produced by purchases such as yours, why would suppliers supply them?

Re:Ad absurdium (1)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827295)

Who said I bought ink-jet cartridges? Your kind of freaking me out - talking about what I do so much.

Re:Ad absurdium (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27827217)

Not to mention all the slashing and burning of rain forests to meet the demand for "green" soy based products.

Re:Ad absurdium (4, Informative)

value_added (719364) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827225)

Want to go green? ... [snip list of recommendations that don't relate to the computer industry] ... When the ink jet containers themselves are made of soy, and the mfgs standardize their cartridges so that reuse is more feasible, I'll take notice.

I'd offer the suggestion that increased attention on the part of consumers and manufacturers to the polluting nature of manufacturing computer parts (and petroleum products in general) is a step in the right direction. Or do you really think we can get somewhere without taking one step at a time?

Anything that's used by individuals in small quantities may be insignificant, but taken as a whole, there's probably a incredibly large number behind the quantity that's manufactured. And then dump in our water or land.

I'm no green nut, but seriously, loosen up. Soy ink? Why the hell not? The newspaper industry adopted it years ago, and while the formulation isn't exactly 100% natural, it was a step in the right direction.

Re:Ad absurdium (3, Informative)

twilightzero (244291) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827317)

You are obviously an idiot. Allow me dissect:

You build an extremely precise little box out of highly refined metals, circuit boards and PCBs, manufactured from parts made all around the world before being shipped thousands of miles to your local Staples, and you're worried about the half ounce of INK!?!?!

You didn't read the parent, or if you did you didn't actually understand the question. INK DOES NOT EQUAL TONER. Get it through your head. One would expect someone reading Slashdot to know this, but apparently that's what I get for assuming. Toner cartridges for laser printers print thousands of sheets if not tens of thousands of sheets per refill. Quickest way to have an office budget go haywire is to have all printing done on inkjet, which is why it isn't done in the business world. Also toner cartridges, while relatively precise, are not all that complex and are generally extremely reliable, unlike their ink-filled counterparts.

Want to go green? Use CFLs

Of course, use CFLs. The same CFLs that contain large amounts of mercury. The same CFLs that cost an environmental cleanup crew $2000 to clean up [wnd.com] if you break one and follow proper procedure. Mercury that one broken bulb can raise airborne mercury levels in your house to above safe levels. No thanks, I'll stick to incandescent and halogen until LED bulbs are consumer-ready.

Replace your shower heads

Depends highly on where you are and who you are. If you're in a dry place or have only people with short hair, low-flow or ultra-low-flow shower heads can be a great idea. But if you live in a wet area (Minnesota here, we have to work to keep the water out of our houses) or have long hair (rinsing out shampoo takes FOREVER without enough water flow) then it's probably not worth it.

The rest of your points are relatively good, though the trees on the south side of the building will only help you in the summer, so only practical in temperate no-winter areas.

RTFA, and think about your green-ness. Insulate your house more, that will help with both heating and cooling. Replace your old single-pane windows with low-e argon-filled high-R double pane windows. Install a pellet or other bio fuel furnace, though I wouldn't recommend corn since it's a food product whereas pellets and other options are industrial waste products. Or even better, install a geo-exchange system that will help both your heating and cooling. Ride a bike or drive a scooter. The point is, with anything look at the impact and difference you're making either way.

Re:Ad absurdium (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827405)

Really twilightzero? The old mercury trap again? You'll put far more mercury into the air running an incandescent than you ever will using AND running CFLs.

Re:Ad absurdium (1)

dkf (304284) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827325)

Want to go green? Use CFLs. Replace your shower heads. Bike to work. Email instead of printing. Open windows rather than hit the thermostat. Use GotoMeeting rather than fly. Plant some trees on the South side of your home and office buildings. Buy your food from a local Farmer's Market rather than the mega-mart to avoid 'fresh' food from Argentina or some other place 4,000 miles away in refrigerated containers.

Not all those things are as big a save as all that. While some make a lot of sense (going away from incandescent lights for example) the Farmer's Market idea might not be as effective as you hope. The issue there is that you've got to compare not just the transport costs to the environment, but also the production costs; growing veg in a heated greenhouse in the middle of winter is not carbon-efficient! Instead, you have to accept far more seasonality in the goods that you buy.

And meetings continue to be far more effective when carried out in person. The tools available on the internet just aren't good enough yet for anything beyond point-to-point meeting-alikes and broadcasts. (Alas, this means I've seen the inside of far too many airports.) The key issues are that people never get their configurations right - kind-of vital for many-to-many comms to work! - and you can't really share a drink or meal with someone over the internet. It's a human thing.

Re:Ad absurdium (1)

jamesswift (1184223) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827417)

I agree with your post but there is an interesting detail there worth discussing...

"your food from a local Farmer's Market rather than the mega-mart to avoid 'fresh' food from Argentina or some other place 4,000 miles away in refrigerated containers."

It's possibe for the "carbon footprint" of your goods from local producers to be worse than the alternative. Many small producers transporting many small quantities of produce shortish distances can add up to more carbon per kilo of produce emmited.

Hypothetical example with silly numbers, someone more informed than me might be able to do better....

100kg of fruit is transported a long way in a single efficient vehicle emiting 100kg of CO2. That's 1kg of C02 per kg of fruit.

10 farmers transport 10kg of fruit each a short way in small but mostly empty possibly inefficient vans and emit 11kg of CO2 each in the process. That's 1.1kg of CO2 per kg of fruit.

I'm not saying this is really what happens, only that it's possible and that the distance travelled by our goods isn't really the root problem.

FROSTY PISS (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826705)

Eat my frosty ass dingles in your cartridge printers!

FP? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826707)

Green niggers from outerspace, y'all! Recognize!

What next? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826721)

Is there anything you can't do with Soy? This is ridiculous.

Re:What next? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826745)

Is there anything you can't do with Soy?

Make it taste good....

Re:What next? (4, Informative)

WillKemp (1338605) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827037)

When i worked as an offset litho printer, back in the early 90s, we used soya bean ink. It was good stuff - and, as far as i remember, gave off less chemical fumes than standard ink.

Re:What next? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27827347)

Ink is not the same as Toner.

Re:What next? (1)

WillKemp (1338605) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827433)

No, but soya is the same as soya.

The more important question at hand... (1)

Narcocide (102829) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826723)

... how does it taste on your sushi?

Lickable sheets anyone? (2, Funny)

freaker_TuC (7632) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826731)

So, basically, they could create lickable sheets with that process? ... Makes the Rolling Stones tongue [991.com] suddenly look completely different ...

Re:Lickable sheets anyone? (1)

Reziac (43301) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827371)

Where is that really from? We had the same image painted on the wall of my college dorm's cafeteria back in 1972. (With a hamburger on a plate sitting on the tongue as an added effect :)

Did you search? (3, Informative)

SigNuZX728 (635311) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826733)

On the first page of a google search for "soy-based laser toner" is a link to a Chicago Tribune article dated April 22. Check that out.

Re:Did you search? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826795)

Since when do astroturfers search before posting their advertisement?

Re:Did you search? (1)

squiggly12 (1298191) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826809)

Sorry, will have to do it tomorrow morning. I'm just a tad to drunk right now.

Re:Did you search? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826827)

that's the dumbest question ever...i can understand asking somebody u know before u search but i'm pretty sure a google search is mandatory before a ask-slashdot post

Re:Did you search? (2, Insightful)

SigNuZX728 (635311) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826887)

I'm too old to assume anything anymore.

Re:Did you search? (1)

Malc (1751) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826977)

No, not when I try. I have it set for 100 results, and the only place I even see the word Chicago is related to this link: http://www.examiner.com/x-8120-Chicago-Business-Technology-Examiner~y2009m4d23-Maine-company-offers-first-soybased-toner-cartridges-for-offices-schools [examiner.com] . If I put quotes around your search term, I see no mention of Chicago at all.

Re:Did you search? (1)

SigNuZX728 (635311) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827139)

It was there earlier. Somebody must have deleted it :\

For Coffee Too (1)

Anenome (1250374) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826771)

The good news is that if you run out of creamer you can just toss some soy-toner in there, virtually the same thing.

Re:For Coffee Too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826865)

And if the soy toner isn't black enough, you can just put some of my coffee in it.

Be Green (5, Insightful)

DreamsAreOkToo (1414963) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826779)

Soy Ink? What a freaking joke! The total octopi, or whatever they get ink from, saved by Soy Ink, is truly insignificant.

If your company wants to be green, they need to buy recycled paper, or buy a sustainable forest, or replace all that horrid grass outside with natural prairie and woods.

When are people going to get that using "green" products is still producing consumer waste, and that if you want to truly make an impact, you need to ride your bike sometimes, or something!

Re:Be Green (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826821)

If you want green and soy, nothing beats soylent green.

Re:Be Green (1)

onionlee (836083) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827161)

win

Re:Be Green (4, Informative)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826963)

Most toner is made from oil: it takes about 1 million barrels of oil to supply the US with toner for a year. This is less than .1% of the oil the country uses. Obviously not a huge deal from that perspective.

Soy toner has two things really going for it: first is, it's easier (ie cheaper) to recycle. Paper with soy toner is easier to recycle. Second, the cost is about the same as normal toner.

I haven't actually seen it in use, so I can't say what it will look like, but if the quality is equivalent to that of carbon based toner, then there is no reason not to use it, and a few small reasons TO use it.

Re:Be Green (3, Insightful)

Fred_A (10934) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827055)

So all that's left is "how does it hold in front of humidity" ?

This is a major advantage of laser printing vs. a number of inkjets. Does soy make a difference ?

Re:Be Green (2, Interesting)

anagama (611277) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827111)

I haven't actually seen it in use, so I can't say what it will look like, but if the quality is equivalent to that of carbon based toner, then there is no reason not to use it, and a few small reasons TO use it.

It is not inconceivable that soy toner would be less green when you figure in the energy costs of farming, the fact that stripped earth grawing a monocrop is far less effective at absorbing carbon than forest or grassland, the fact that fertilizer is made from natural gas, fact that the soy is likely transported great distances to where the processing plant exists, the fossil fuel cost of creating all the equipment for farming which may surpass that required to set up an oil well and pipe the oil to its destination, etc. etc. That 0.1% of crude oil use for toner might well be less favorable once the fossil fuel costs of soy, and the potentially environmentally degrading impact of farming are plugged into the equation, offset by the energy costs required to produce oil.

Besides, wouldn't make more sense to attack the problem by printing less or finding a substitute for plastic? I'm just guessing, but on weight basis drums and cartridge bodies probably contain a heck of a lot more oil.

Re:Be Green (2, Informative)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827141)

No, it isn't. Most toner has two major components: the pigment (which is often kept secret), and the binder. The drum is highly charged; the places where the toner is supposed to go are traced by the laser, which neutralizes the charge in those places. Then an opposite charge is applied, which deposits the toner on the paper electrostatically. Finally, the paper passes over the fuser (that hot roller at the end of the process), which melts the binder and permanently fuses it to the paper.

The pigment is typically heavy on superfine carbon (lamp black), and the binder is typically made of polymer... which in turn is made from oil. But I highly doubt there is any oil per se in the toner.

Re:Be Green (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827259)

and the binder is typically made of polymer... which in turn is made from oil.

So in other words, yes, yes it is made from oil?

Re:Be Green (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827365)

"Made from" is not the same as "is". There is a very big difference.

Re:Be Green (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827395)

Indeed. Which is why originally I said "made from." I couldn't agree more.

All right Jimmy (2, Insightful)

earnest murderer (888716) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826971)

Mr. President you ought to know by now nobody is going to do that. The green economy is about feeling like you care without actually doing anything. It's about keeping your margins up and your expenses low.

Marketing!

Re:Be Green (4, Funny)

plover (150551) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827003)

That's right! If you want it to be "green", you have to use Organically Grown Soy so those horrible GMOs won't, uh, get on your paper and ... uh ... club the baby seals ... umm ...

Damn! Lost my place in the chapter about soy in my copy of "Liberal Rants for All Occasions." If only it wasn't printed on hemp paper, maybe we wouldn't have smoked the table of contents.

Re:Be Green (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27827401)

Damn! Lost my place in the chapter about soy in my copy of "Liberal Rants for All Occasions." If only it wasn't printed on hemp paper, maybe we wouldn't have smoked the table of contents.

Check the index. Or did you roll the TOC up in the index to smoke it?

Re:Be Green (1)

WillKemp (1338605) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827069)

Soy Ink? What a freaking joke!

Soya printing ink has been around since at least the beginning of the 90s - i used to use it back then, when i was working as a printer.

Re:Be Green (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827151)

Toner is not even remotely related to ink. However, they might use similar pigments. I believe that is how the soy is used; as a pigment.

My local newspaper prides itself on being "green", and it uses an ink that is made from soy and vegetable oil. It smears more than the old ink... but what the hell, it's a newspaper. You aren't going to be keeping most issues for a long time.

Re:Be Green (2, Insightful)

Orlando (12257) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827159)

Em, or stop printing.

Re:Be Green (0, Troll)

tirefire (724526) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827343)

Mod parent down. Recycled paper is worse in every way than "virgin" paper. "Virgin" paper does not come from beautiful protected forests, it comes from tree farms. These tree farms have only young trees (which are more effective at fixing carbon from the air than older trees). Recycling paper also requires tremendous amounts of energy and the use of harmful chemicals to de-ink and bleach the paper again.

Recycled paper is not "green". It results in us wasting resources in order to get shitty, rough, opaque recycled paper.

Source: google.com

Print on Rice Paper (3, Funny)

adavies42 (746183) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826791)

Use rice paper, then you can eat any extra printouts.

Re:Print on Rice Paper (3, Funny)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826907)

Use rice paper, then you can eat any extra printouts.

Soy Ink on Rice Paper? Eat your words!

Is it really any greener? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826805)

There's mounting evidence that the levels of deforestation being conducted to support the massive growth in soya crops for food related activities alone is unsustainable and environmentally unfriendly.

Any new product that will spur an increase in soya production should be of dubious green value at best.

I'd be concerned about the nutritional claims (3, Funny)

Nefarious Wheel (628136) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826819)

Soy based toner cartridges are probably ok, but I'd want to see the nutritional composition clearly labeled so we can compare the carbohydrate content with other equipment, such as our roughage-based fax machine.

I think the Ford Model T had Bakelite components, which were made from processed soy protein. But relatively few owners took them apart and shook the components to get more mileage, iirc.

In other news (1)

Merc248 (1026032) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826841)

Soyataur, the self-styled all purpose overlord, had ordered the a few of his followers to help him print a Word document. He is still puzzled as to why his followers disappeared so suddenly without letting him know about going off to the milk or tofu business.

Re:In other news (1)

Aardpig (622459) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826955)

Well, I for one welcome our new marinated beancurd overlords....

Re:In other news (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827175)

Soy is loaded with phytoestrogens... this is absolute proof that it is a female conspiracy.

they suck... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826847)

initial printouts were as dark as conventional toners. they did not match the darkness of original oem carts but were ok with our HP remanufactured carts in quality with oem toner.
after 3-4 weeks we started to see fade. think thermal fax machine fading type fade. they dont last long with UV light exposure (basically sunlight hitting the laser printout). we've since stopped using em.
YMMV.

Re:they suck... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826935)

BTW, we got ours from :
http://www.lasermonksgreen.com/ [lasermonksgreen.com]
as noted in the FAQ the ink is easier to de-ink and recycle (cuz it comes off the paper easier) and yield is more since less ink sticks to the paper due to the high heat ability of soy inks. for temporary printing this is great. for offices - ok for some, not ok for others.
see here :
http://www.lasermonksgreen.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=66 [lasermonksgreen.com]
#
Simpler and less capital intensive in the de-inking process (recycling)
#
Higher yield - for many of the toner cartridges, soy ink yields 10% more pages

HTH.

Hey - cool feature (3, Funny)

cheros (223479) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827321)

That is two solutions in one:

1 - any report becomes invisible after a while. I bet Arthur Andersen would have paid a fortune for that feature alone. Besides, anything thicker than an 1 inch when printed is redundant the moment it's sent to the print queue (I just made that up, but feels about right in my experience :-).

2 - the paper can be recycled. Maybe not as printer paper, but scrap. And folded paper planes look much nicer without print on them, I just don't know what soy toner does to the aero dynamics. I suggest a week long study to find out.

On the serious side, thanks. Fade is a feature worth avoiding..

Soylent Toner (2, Funny)

psicop (229507) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826849)

I don't know about the print quality, but switching to rice paper made for a delicious combination.

Re:Soylent Toner (1, Funny)

macraig (621737) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826947)

Soylent toner is made from the dessicated bodies of people stupid enough to have been suckered into buying soy-based toner.

Pretty good, but ... (3, Funny)

asifyoucare (302582) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826861)

I've heard that baby seal blood toner is better.

Re:Pretty good, but ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27827389)

I agree. Baby seal blood coagulates into a rich black color, you really cannot match the contrast it provides. What's more it's 100% biodegradeable and a completely renewable resource! And all seal blood is made from natural component like digested fish-parts, locking carbon into that form rather than letting it decompose and release back into the atmosphere. We've been using Seal Blood Toner for 8 years now and would never go back to oil, why send money to the middle east anyway when we can send it to Alasaka.

Baby steps (2, Interesting)

PNutts (199112) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826879)

Our office changed all printers' defaults to Draft Mode and duplexing. I've also seen articles on fonts that are composed of tiny dots that use about half the toner.

Watch out for the Green Ink! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826881)

Soy Green ink is people! Soy Green ink is people!

No,I don't know why it's not red.

You're doing your job wrong (4, Funny)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826891)

If managers are discussing this with you and you're following up, you're doing your job wrong. Deflect the question: mention that really the carbon wasted from one cartridge is really no more than used by running the computers for a week in a year, which is essentially equivalent to 2.5 Volkswagens per library of congress. Use units they understand. Then suggest they compensate by turning of the computers for one day a week, and really there's no reason to leave the lights on either. Yes we can help the environment. Change. Paradigm. Use words they understand.

In fact, might as well let the workers stay home. It will boost morale and help the environment. Win win. They will leave with a confused look that means you can get back to your game of nethack.

Either that, or use it as an excuse to surf to slashdot during work hours. Which it appears is what you did.

Re:You're doing your job wrong (1)

fucket (1256188) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826923)

Don't you worry the environment, let me worry about blank!

Re:You're doing your job wrong (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827191)

There you go... the second suggestion on Slashdot, in only a few days, that a "Library of Congress" should be used as a standard unit of measure.

Maybe we should start considering it seriously.

See Newspaper and magazine print (3, Insightful)

wisenboi (1154441) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826901)

From what I've read, soy-based printer toner/ink isn't that much different. The quality is likely to be less rich (especially for high end prints of brochures on regular paper) but otherwise there shouldn't be too much of a difference.

To be really green... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826903)

... don't replace the toner cartridge at all, and save toner, paper, power, and the manufacturing and disposal costs of the printer. If the managers really want to be green, they can avoid producing all that paperwork.

WD-40 Printers (1)

myspace-cn (1094627) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826909)

I used to use WD-40 on the ink tapes. As an added benefit it smells great!

nothing green about a laser printer (3, Informative)

ghinckley68 (590599) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826927)

The drum is made of selenium that usually winds in land fills. They make ozone like crazy and when we are done with them we toss them out. Soy based toner totally pointless.

Nope nothing green here move along.

 

Not carbon friendly (5, Funny)

klossner (733867) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826929)

Standard laser-printer toner is made up of tiny specs of carbon black and plastic. When you print with this toner, you're fixing carbon onto paper. Point out how green this is.

Re:Not carbon friendly (2, Funny)

cjfs (1253208) | more than 5 years ago | (#27826975)

Standard laser-printer toner is made up of tiny specs of carbon black and plastic. When you print with this toner, you're fixing carbon onto paper. Point out how green this is.

So that's how they make carbon credits!

Longevity and rub-off (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826973)

Will your documents be readable in 1 year, 5, 15? What about regularly handled documents in binders in humid environments- does it imprint the opposite page or rub off?

These seem like the prudent questions to be asking.

Re:Longevity and rub-off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27827001)

probably readable in a year. it rubs off.

You gotta RTFA (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27826995)

Those user testimonials are great! I like how all their users synchronized their postings! There are 3 on June 2nd from 11:32 to 11:34, 1 on June 5th, and 5 from June 20th from 12:30 to 12:31.

Hilarious...

Re:You gotta RTFA (1)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827049)

What's better is that they aren't talking about soy based toner - just a company that refills toner cartridges.

Wrong attitude! (3, Insightful)

russsell (185151) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827043)

Why are you resisting pressure from managers? The more you push one way, the more they'll push back.

A far better approach to managing your managerial stakeholders is to say "Hey, that's a great idea! Let's do an experiment... let's change your cartridges to soy for a few months and see how they go!"

This way even if they don't work, you're seen as a listener rather than a roadblock.

Re:Wrong attitude! (2, Insightful)

profplump (309017) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827415)

Or you're seen as the guy who switched us to these terrible new "green" toners that don't print decently and make our external communications look second-rate.

You're assuming that his managers will take responsibility if their project fails; while that's certainly possible I wouldn't count on it, particularly if your goal is to ingratiate yourself with those managers.

Equally valid counter view (1)

NotQuiteReal (608241) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827051)

I'm getting a lot of pressure from managers

If you weren't so lazy, you could be a manager. Think of it... you could be advocating baby-seal oil based toner as "green", since seals are predator animals, they must be un-green.

Come on! Rise Up! Demand what's yours!

Re:Equally valid counter view (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827237)

Ah, but see, seals are cuter than polar bears (except the little ones) and other peak predators, and you don't see the blood when they scarf their fish and squid and such.

And they have big sloe doggy eyes.

Therefore, seals are more worthy than polar bears to be "saved". After all, polar bears smear seal guts all over the place, and get all bloody, and so on. Not quite so pretty for the Disney cameras.

And besides... seals have furs that we used to regularly collect to wear. Not too many sane people go out to collect polar bears for fur coats. Therefore, humans are evil creatures and we must do penance by saving as many seals as we can, at all costs.

Sounds Great... (5, Funny)

stms (1132653) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827101)

If you print a lot of green shit. Otherwise I would recommend that you buy cartridges with normal amounts of each color.

boring (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27827143)

nothing better to write

How was the print quality? (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827155)

Salty.

Green, greener, soy? (5, Insightful)

jovius (974690) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827231)

Soy doesn't necessarily make the product green. Where is the soy produced, is it genetically modified, what's the carbon imprint of the whole product? How much processing does the soy need to become ink-like, and what chemicals are used along the way?

It might be cool to have soy based toner in your printer, but the overall damage to the environment may be wider and larger. A lot of companies greenwash their products in order to widen their customer base.

The Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] article seems to have some answers. Moving away from petroleum is an advantage.

Re:Green, greener, soy? (2, Informative)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827263)

You make a good point, even though toner is not at all like ink. The black in toner generally comes from carbon, and in order to make soy really black I think you pretty much have to burn it down until it is little more than carbon.

So what's really the point?

Soy-based newspaper ink makes some sense, because it is basically made from soy and vegetable oil, making it renewable and demonstrably non-toxic. But where does the carbon in regular toners come from? Possibly even soy, since it is cheap... but the manufacturers are not going to tell you because their formulas are secret. Also, soy-based pigment or not, the toner still has to use a binder, and those are usually made from polymer (plastic).

What is being gained here? Sounds like a marketing gimmick to me.

Re:Green, greener, soy? (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827279)

Okay, according to the Wikipedia article, soy is used for the oil in the newspaper ink, not the pigment. But there you have a quandary: there is no oil in toner.

Conceivably, the polymer in the binder could be made from soybean oil. I really do not know.

Backhanded ad? (1)

oldhack (1037484) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827239)

A backhanded slashvertisement from the Green mujahiddens?

How is it green? (-1, Troll)

JJISD (1547715) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827253)

So almost all Soy is Monsanto Roundup Ready GMO soy. In order to grow this Soy you have spray Round Up, a general herbicide (as in it KILLS everything green), over the whole field to get the Soy to grow. So your boss wants to be "green" by buying a product that is grown in a way that kills just about every other single plant. It also has led to untold birth defects, general starvation (when the third world farmers kill their field and then can't afford more Monsanto seed), and not to mention that the Soy is itself now load with these chemicals. But somehow it's green. Go figure.

Re:How is it green? (4, Informative)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827331)

You are misinformed.

Soy ink is made from a non-food soy that is distinctly different from "regular" soybeans. However, that is used for the oil in the ink, not the pigment, and there is no oil in toner. So it is questionable just what they are doing with that soy in "soy-based" toner.

In any case, back to the subject: you may be right about the soy crops, but the answer to that is simple: stop using Monsanto soy. That is not exactly rocket science.

And as for the Roundup, it needs to be sprayed directly on plants, in order to be absorbed and do its work. Roundup is biodegradable in the extreme: it is broken down into harmless naturally-occurring chemicals shortly after it contacts the soil. That is why so many people found Roundup to be so frustrating: it would kill all the weeds in their yard, but even before they were completely dead, new weeds would start popping up. Because any roundup that did not touch a weed disappeared within a couple of days.

I applaud your concern for the environment (and in particular the non-reproducing crop garbage that corporations have tried to pull), but you should do some research before willy-nilly pointing fingers.

Re:How is it green? (4, Informative)

Reziac (43301) | more than 5 years ago | (#27827431)

At an ag-educated guess, the black pigment for "soy-based toner" comes from burnt soybean *hulls*.

As to the phytoestrogens, some interesting reading that is backed by considerable research:
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/04birthdefects.htm [soyonlineservice.co.nz]
(Be aware that flaxseed meal has 3 to 4 TIMES as much phytoestrogen as soy, and is sufficient to be somewhat effective as a contraceptive, and to cause birth defects, when used in dog food.)

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