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327 comments

Sorry but... (0, Flamebait)

HerculesMO (693085) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862641)

It's still ugly looking.

Usable, maybe... but I get MS Office free so I won't bother. I'll wait to be labeled flamebait.

Re:Sorry but... (2, Insightful)

arkane1234 (457605) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862711)

You're not flamebait, your just a liar.
MS Office doesn't come free, it comes via barter or monetary goods exchange. "free" is relative to what you consider worthy.

Re:Sorry but... (0, Flamebait)

HerculesMO (693085) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862811)

Uhm, free means that my company buys me a license for my home PCs so that I can work (not that I do) from home. I have a laptop too, so I consider it free.

Re:Sorry but... (0, Redundant)

V!NCENT (1105021) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862903)

Free isn't even the correct English word for 'free of charge'... It's the word 'gratis', which IS an Enlish word (look it up).

Re:Sorry but... (0, Offtopic)

_KiTA_ (241027) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863429)

Free isn't even the correct English word for 'free of charge'... It's the word 'gratis', which IS an Enlish word (look it up).

Ya, but 'Gratis of Charge' makes my mouth feel dirty saying it.

Re:Sorry but... (4, Insightful)

644bd346996 (1012333) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863633)

The phrase "gratis of charge" is redundant. "Gratis" suffices, although it has the unfortunate side effect of making you sound like a pretentious scholar that likes to toss around latin words that nobody knows.

Re:Sorry but... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863431)

Free isn't even the correct English word for 'free of charge'
Sorry to pick on you grammer nazi but if your going to do it right you should follow your own advice look it up...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free%5B1%5D [merriam-webster.com]

See number 10 'not costing or charging anything'

That is FREE as in *NO* cost. There are other meanings of free, not just your narrow minded ones. I am with the original guy if I had a choice between OO and MS Office for free as in no cost (which he apparently has). It is not even a contest, I would take ms office. If you are saying otherwise you are either deluded, maniacal, brainwashed, or a liar.

Here is what it comes down to. Yes I can get at the code. But guess what *I DO NOT HAVE TIME*, or inclination to do so. I have the capability, I also could really care less. I just want to use my programs in peace. I will use whatever I think is the best of breed. FOSS does not always mean that. In my experience it is usually mediocre. Sorry if I offend anyone but it is true. Some people seem to think because it is free that is better. There are real gems out there (such as winmerge, firefox) that I use every day. Other times such as with OO it is a 'good effort' but does not measure up. FOSS is getting there in quality. But it is slow going...

I will give OO a try again (have since 2.x days). It might be better this time. It might stack up ever since that crazy 2007 ribbon bar from office came out. I doubt it.

Re:Sorry but... (2, Interesting)

Burkin (1534829) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863483)

This just in: Words in the English language can actually have more than 1 meaning! But the Stallmanesque rant was pretty funny.

Re:Sorry but... (1)

armer (533337) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863043)

Obviously you haven't heard of the Pirate Bay have you??? Hand in your badge...

Re:Sorry but... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863217)

OpenOffice is free in the same sense that Linux is free if your time has no value.

Re:Sorry but... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863575)

And Windows is free if your time and money have no value.

Re:Sorry but... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27862851)

OpenOrifice is still just a lame piece of software for people who are too cheap to buy quality Microsoft software.

sod off dancing monkey boy ! (4, Funny)

rs232 (849320) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863163)

"OpenOrifice is still just a lame piece of software for people who are too cheap to buy quality Microsoft software

Dancing Monkeyboy [google.com]

Re:Sorry but... (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863167)

Mod Parent up.

My nerd buddy who is into Linux had been bugging me to try OpenOffice for weeks. I installed it and it took nearly 3 hours to complete, while requiring 3 reboots in the process! Sure enough, it was as slow and buggy as the Java platform itself.

That's why Genuine Microsoft Office is my productivity suite of choice. It offers lightning-fast speed, ironclad stability, and the revolutionary new Ribbon interface which allow us to Just Get the Job Done(tm). No futzing with half-ass crappola on MY machine, ladies.

Re:Sorry but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863467)

Well, if you installed it in a Linux distro, it would've taken one command, 5 minutes and no reboots. ... IÂcan't believe I just responded to a troll.

Re:Sorry but... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863645)

OpenOrifice is still just a lame piece of software for people who are too cheap to buy quality Microsoft software.

I didn't know Microsoft was in that business..

antialiased! (3, Funny)

spud603 (832173) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862649)

Finally with antialiasing !

Re:antialiased! (0, Troll)

vivek7006 (585218) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862791)

Finally with antialiasing !

Must have been really tough to figure out how to add anti-aliasing in the spaghetti-code. It took them little over 10 years..

Re:antialiased! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27862945)

The new anti-aliasing feature is on the graphics (charts, etc). The text in writer has been anti-aliased for years, ass.

Re:antialiased! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27862975)

I would have thought anti-aliasing is job for the windowing system, not a word processor. What's openoffice doing implementing its own anti-aliasing?

Re:antialiased! (4, Insightful)

spud603 (832173) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863829)

I think I got this thread off on the wrong foot. Text anti-aliasing has been around for a long time in OO.o (as a comment above says). In fact the new antialiasing is for the in-document drawings, which makes a huge difference both for working with images and for good-looking presentations.
It actually is a big deal that they did this, and I congratulate the developers on their good work.

Re:antialiased! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27862877)

Don't forget the much anticipated font size buttons in impress. For all your font scaling needs, because a spinner would be too minimalistic and antiopenoffice

Re:antialiased! (1)

Burkin (1534829) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862911)

Well duh, a spinner doesn't require 50,000 lines of code to write and that Sun engineer needs to eat somehow!

Re:antialiased! (1)

theshowmecanuck (703852) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863471)

I never understood things like the zoom feature being the way they are. The only thing I can think of is that maybe they are trying to avoid a patent war with respect to the GUI controls. With these stupid business process type patents, Microsoft might have patented a "method to change font sizes using a spinner or drop down box". Or they may have patented a method of zooming in a word processor by clicking on the screen after clicking on plus or minus tool bar buttons. If it is isn't for this reason, then I agree, these would seem to be low hanging fruit in terms of usability that should have been picked years ago.

Re:antialiased! (1)

Chabo (880571) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862943)

Too bad they don't use antialiasing or any type of filtering for the thumbnails...

http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/features/3.1/images/image11-big.png [openoffice.org]
http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/features/3.1/images/image12-big.png [openoffice.org]

Re:antialiased! (1)

coolsnowmen (695297) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863253)

Openoffice's antialiasing only affects things rendered by openoffice. So a .png link to my browser doesn't really show anything.

Re:antialiased! (1)

Chabo (880571) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863625)

I know that they most likely didn't do any image processing or editing with OpenOffice, but if it was done in Gimp or Photoshop, setting the resizing operation to do bilinear or cubic filtering would make it easier on the eyes.

I was being facetious though. :)

Re:antialiased! (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863871)

Haha... where do you even FIND a paint program that doesn't do at least bi-cubic when resizing? I hope they didn't use OpenOffice to resize the images, that's not exactly a glowing recommendation.

Re:antialiased! (1)

smallshot (1202439) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863243)

I couldn't believe they didn't have anti-aliasing before! I wrote a complete vector graphics library with anti-aliasing in a month in my spare time, why did it take them so long?

on another note, why do most of the new features scream commonsense? or is it just me?

You don't want antialiasing (1)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863269)

For fonts anyway. You want font hinting.

Antialiasing is horribly slow and is one of the things which makes Gnome in particular seem so sluggish. Go on, turn it off and watch those menus fly.
 

Re:You don't want antialiasing (1)

Mprx (82435) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863711)

Font hinting is distorting fonts to make them uglier. I'd rather use a higher DPI display or increase the font size. And if antialiasing is slow you're doing something horribly wrong, because RISC OS had usable text antialiasing back in 1989. The only cause of slowdown in GNOME menus is loading icons from disc, and most of the time they will be cached.

Re:You don't want antialiasing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863903)

Is the antialiasing easy to turn off when I want? It really slows down remote access through VNC.

I like how Windows can turn off extra graphics effects when VNC is connected. I haven't seen the same feature in GNOME or KDE.

What, half a million lines of code changed... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27862723)

and still no Clippy the paperclip to help me write a letter?

Re:What, half a million lines of code changed... (1)

x_IamSpartacus_x (1232932) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862825)

He's there, he's just hidden in a useless easter egg that took 100 hours and 100,000 of the new lines of code. Yes, I checked... trust me... he's there.

Re:What, half a million lines of code changed... (4, Funny)

Corpuscavernosa (996139) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863695)

Due to copyright concerns, OO3.1 will have "Stapley" as the office assistant

"I see that you're writing a document that will undoubtedly take up more than one page. Would you like help affixing these multiple pages together?"

.5 million lines of code (5, Insightful)

zindorsky (710179) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862743)

Having a lot of lines of code is not necessarily something to brag about. In fact, it's more likely to be an indicator of badness than goodness.

If the product works great, people won't care how many lines of code it has. If it's buggy or sluggish or in other ways wonky, people might look at the code line count and point to that as the problem. ("It's bloated!" "It's so big no one can understand it or fix it!")

Re:.5 million lines of code (4, Informative)

gurutc (613652) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862925)

So far the product (update) does seem to work great. Better than the previous version. I use the Calc program a lot, and it seems faster on some basic functions like loading files with forumulas.

Re:.5 million lines of code (4, Insightful)

jhfry (829244) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863015)

Lots of lines of code CAN mean exactly what you say, bloat. However it appears that in this case many of the line changes were fixing issues and adding needed features.

For example, they significantly reduced some bottlenecks in Calc... they made Base more like access in that you can actually create an "application"... and they added some very nice contextual help in places where non-power users will find it very handy, like when they are trying to use a Calc function and can't remember the order of its arguements.

I would say that this is a decent point release for the OOorg team, evolutionary but not revolutionary. My only complaint is how much it is beginning to resemble MS Office; nice for adoption rates, bad for innovation.

Re:.5 million lines of code (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863663)

In this case, Sun said [sun.com] "about 500.000 lines of code were changed/rewritten" just for antialiasing, a task that "took 5 years to complete".

And they didn't even simply abstract out the drawing and use Cairo -- they wrote their own antialiasing. So it looks a little different from all my other apps, and now I'll have yet another implementation of AA in memory now. (If that's not bloat, what is?)

The screenshots look prettier, but I'm not sure if this is progress or not. If they want to add another graphics feature, will they have to touch 500000 lines of code again, and take another 5 years? Or do they have their own ad-hoc Cairo-like abstraction internally so they can just add it in one area of the code? They don't say.

Greatly Unimpressed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863105)

The UI is still the Office 95 clone, which works how we used to design user interactivity *15* years ago. That has begun already hurting OpenOffice's appeal to users, there are several competitors that make office suites that simply have better usability. Remember kids, usability is what matters in the end!

There is experimental Flux UI design for OpenOffice. It has great potential. However usability hasn't been sexy enough for the programming people, so... I guess OpenOffice's interface will suck even still at OOo 5.0 :-(

Re:.5 million lines of code (1)

docmur (813683) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863109)

Your right, Windows contains a lot of lines of code and it's horrible, wow your an idiot, if you need 1/2 million lines of code then you need a 1/2 million lines of code. OO is far surpiror then Microsoft Office so i don't know what your talking about in either case your wrong.

Congratulations (5, Insightful)

Abreu (173023) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862773)

Screw the naysayers, congratulations to everybody working in OpenOffice.org

Re:Congratulations (3, Funny)

OglinTatas (710589) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863339)

All hot female naysayers, 18-36 please report to my house.

Re:Congratulations (4, Funny)

Etrias (1121031) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863621)

Completely off topic, but if you have a bunch of hot female naysayers at your house, what on Earth do you hope to accomplish? It's like the kid in college who lined his room with posters of women in bikinis and never ever talking to a real live girl.

Re:Congratulations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863825)

Must know from experience.

Re:Congratulations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863837)

you just need to use reverse phsycology...

"who in this room wants to do nothing instead of having sex..."

If they are real naysayers they will say no right...

Improved looks? (5, Insightful)

B5_geek (638928) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862813)

I have heard for a long time how horrible OOo looked. Personally, I never understood what the problem was. The icons were clear and easy to dostinguosh between them, and the text-buttons were obvious.

Compared to the newest version of MS Office, I'd say that any version of OOo wins hands down.

Re:Improved looks? (3, Interesting)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863025)

Especially compared to MS Office 2007. It took me about 5 minutes just to figure out how to print something. I mean, it's an office program. There should either be a big PRINT button, or a File->Print menu.

And ideally, a talking paperclip to help you stab your eyes out.

Re:Improved looks? (1, Informative)

FishWithAHammer (957772) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863447)

File->Print menu.

There is. It's in the top-left corner.

Or, you know. Hit Ctrl-P, like every version of office ever.

Re:Improved looks? (4, Insightful)

mdielmann (514750) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863739)

The point of icons and menus is so that you don't need to know cryptic keyboard commands. If the preferred solution to the updated icon system is to use the keyboard, they've failed. If the system is so changed that experienced Office users can't find the things they always did in the old version and there is no simple help for "how do I do x", they've failed. (It took me 30 minutes to just see the macro ribbon in Excel the first time. Now I just use Alt-F11 if it's not on the system I'm using.)
Or to put it another way: The Ribbon system reminds me of the MacBook Wheel [theonion.com] - everything you want to do is just a few hundred clicks away.

Re:Improved looks? (3, Insightful)

644bd346996 (1012333) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863833)

It's not labeled as the File menu. In fact, it defies all pre-existing conventions for what a file menu is supposed to look like, and indeed, to the untrained eye, it looks just like a conceitedly large logo. (I'll admit, on Windows the logo in the top left corner does activate a menu, but the only functionality in it is from the window manager. And the logo is supposed to be 1/4 the size of the Office 2007 logo.) Microsoft essentially hid all of the most important functionality in a completely non-obvious way.

Re:Improved looks? (2, Interesting)

IsaacD (1376213) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863175)

Ribbons seemed strange and unnecessary to me at first. Given some time, I've adopted them whole-heartedly. I've always had high hopes for OOo, but I have found myself disappointed and more than willing to pay for MS Office. Office 2007 even has PDF/XPS plugins available; the tablet and integration/collaboration features of MS Office leave OOo light years behind.

Re:Improved looks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863275)

another freetard lashing out at microsoft. news at 11.

Re:Improved looks? (0)

nine-times (778537) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863299)

I haven't been a big complainer about the looks, but I can understand. It's not so much that it's horrible in itself, but it has had times where it seemed out of place on either Windows or OSX (particular OSX before it was a native application). It had the feel of a program that had been ported over from another platform-- which, fair enough, it was a program ported over from another platform. But when I'm using a program and I can tell it wasn't designed for the system I'm running it on, I count that as a problem.

Looks native (4, Funny)

sjbe (173966) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863543)

but it has had times where it seemed out of place on either Windows or OSX

And that's exactly why iTunes has been such a success on Windows. It looks just like a native app...

OpenOffice.org (2, Interesting)

falconwolf (725481) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863759)

it has had times where it seemed out of place on either Windows or OSX (particular OSX before it was a native application).

I use NeoOffice [neooffice.org] on my Mac and see no reason to switch right now.

when I'm using a program and I can tell it wasn't designed for the system I'm running it on, I count that as a problem.

What matters to me is whether it is and how much it's usable. That's one reason I won't switch for now, NeoOffice is quite usable. Then again I hardly use it.

Falcon

Word count (5, Interesting)

simonwalton (843796) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862855)

Does it offer the ability to have an auto-updating word count in the status bar yet? It's absolutely essential to many people, particularly copywriters who are paid to hit a particular word count. It seems like such a trivial thing to implement and has been requested many times.

Re:Word count (5, Informative)

rs232 (849320) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863085)

"Does it offer the ability to have an auto-updating word count in the status bar yet?"

I don't know, but if you msg the developers I'm sure they would give it full attention. I see here that someone in 2006 [blogspot.com] wrote a Macro to perform such a task.

Re:Word count (5, Funny)

bwalling (195998) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863277)

2006? How am I supposed to get back to 2006 and get it? It's not like I have a time traveling phone booth or DeLorean sitting around.

Re:Word count (3, Insightful)

Etrias (1121031) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863715)

Ask your future time-traveling self to get it for you. Just hope he's not a lazy, selfish bastard.

Re:Word count (1)

Minwee (522556) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863577)

Not quite, but it does have overlining and Shuswap language support.

Is that good enough?

Re:Word count (1)

oddman (204968) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863655)

Does it offer the ability to have an auto-updating word count in the status bar yet?

This extension seems to do exactly that.

http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/eurooffice-my-progress

I've never used it, but I hope it works for you.

Oracle? (1)

sageres (561626) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862893)

Forgive me, but I am a bit ignorant on this, could someone tell me when and how it came to pass that Oracle now has relationship with Open Office? I see nothing of that on neither Oracle website nor Wikipedia, and not even OpenOffice website either. So why the Oracle icon on the story's headline?

Re:Oracle? (2, Funny)

Burkin (1534829) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863037)

Forgive me, but I am a bit ignorant on this, could someone tell me when and how it came to pass that Oracle now has relationship with Open Office?

You mean other than the fact that they own Sun and the OOo team is mostly Sun engineers? Yeah that was a pretty difficult one to solve.

Re:Oracle? (4, Informative)

segfaultcoredump (226031) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863211)

Technically, at this time oracle does not own sun.

They have announced that they will purchase them and the sale is pending, but until that time the two companies are totally independent and functionally must continue to operate as such.

So sometime this summer the oracle logo will be correct, but currently it is wrong.

Re:Oracle? (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863389)

There isn't any rule to make it wrong. You can disagree with it, but that doesn't establish that it is wrong, just that you disagree with it.

Re:Oracle? (1)

djupedal (584558) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863803)

Technically?

Did you just say 'Technically'...?

Are you out of your ever lovin', bag-on-the-side, just stepped into a hot steaming pile of pig-flu-poop of a mind???!!

Do you have any idea what that sort of retort encourages around here?

Oh...wait.... Ummm - nevermind.

Re:Oracle? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863065)

Didn't Oracle JUST buy Sun?

Re:Oracle? (1)

Fnkmaster (89084) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863073)

Oracle is in the process of acquiring Sun Microsystems. Sun is the primary sponsor of OpenOffice, since they acquired StarDivision and their StarOffice product in 1999, and open sourced it.

Re:Oracle? (1)

IceCreamGuy (904648) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863095)

Oracle owns Sun, which is the parent of OpenOffice. You never noticed the OpenOffice options when you do a Java update?

what about the memory leak problems (0, Troll)

rs232 (849320) | more than 4 years ago | (#27862909)

:) let us count the trolls ...

Re:what about the memory leak problems (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863433)

JMemory leak? With Java? You must be joking!

Fp Fago8z? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27862949)

or make loud noises you join today! fear the reaper unlees you can work filed countersuit, Theorists - the same operation Moans and groans the rain..we can be

Awesome (1)

docmur (813683) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863001)

This is by far the best Office Suite ever made, finally a company turns out quality for office software. It's cross platform, it's stable and it's free, what gets better!!!!

Stop trolling! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863013)

Stop trolling already. OOo is GREAT open source project.

Compaired to competition (1, Interesting)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863033)

The new features are nice, but does it have anything that beats Microsoft's offerings?
DRM & sharing for companies ?
Integration with online services (like google office) for home users ?

Obviously I mean other than running on Linux & mac natively, but does it beat gnumeric & abiword yet? I mean when im doing graphs OO (2.x) simply isn't as easy to use as gnumeric and is missing quite a few options.

Won't download to my mac... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27863091)

I get some weird "download chooser" page, and if I select MacOSX from there, it won't download either. This is with Safari 4.

I think somebody is trying to be too "smart".

Well, Duh! (5, Funny)

camperdave (969942) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863103)

...the most visible is the major revamp of OpenOffice.org on-screen graphics.

Well, Duh! I'll bet the least visible is the off screen graphics.

Meh (0, Troll)

ChinggisK (1133009) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863289)

Love the program, updates are kinda meh though, let me know when they put in an auto-updating word count in the status bar. Also when it lets me fit a polynomial trendline to a scatter-plot, I hate having to switch to Excel when I need one.

Most important question (2, Interesting)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863375)

When it encounters a ODF 1.1 document with formula arguments separated by commas created by the MsOffice2007 SP2, does it throw up a really really big nasty warning dialog that says, "MsOffice2007 is using ODF 1.1, please contact the vendor and urge them to start supporting ODF 1.2. We will be nice this one last time and hack around the commas and make them colons. But best if you could persuade the vendor of ODF1.1 docs to upgrade to ODF 1.2"?

looks nice (1)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863781)

i found an annoying bug, if i make a mistake and want to use the backspace key swriter does nothing, the delete key does nothing, the arrow keys do not navigate, even h j k l (vim style) does nothing, i have a USB keyboard on linux and usbhid is loaded, all other applications work fine with these keys, whats the deal Lucille? i am sure there is a solution somewhere.

regexp (1)

leonbloy (812294) | more than 4 years ago | (#27863911)

Any improvements in search-replace, with decent regular expressions support?
Last time I checked (2.2; and I believed it had not changed in 3.0) the implementation in Writer was rather crippled, limited the searching scope to a single paragraph... Searching for something as 'three consecutive paragraphs marks', or using the paragraph separator as a special character inside the pattern, was a pain.
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  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
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