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Novell and Intel Team Up For Moblin On Netbooks

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the os-names-that-sound-like-they-might-eat-you dept.

Intel 29

ruphus13 writes "The Mobile and Netbook space already has several Open Source OS providers. Android has been making its way into netbooks, and Moblin, LiMo and Ubuntu are also alternatives for OSes on netbooks and mobile handhelds. Now, Novell has also joined the fray, but rather than porting openSuSE, they have teamed up with Intel to get OEMs to use Moblin for their mobile devices. From the article: 'With the other tools and benefits that Moblin offers OEMs and developers, it's really a rather smart approach that could potentially yield a better netbook experience (for developers and consumers), maximize development resources, and produce quality software in minimal time. I don't think Novell is eschewing SUSE, but in its current form, it's not as suited for netbooks as it is systems like the HP ProBooks. Paired with Moblin's netbook-centric bent and coming from a desktop/server market (rather than a true mobile device background), bringing a SUSE/Moblin system to netbooks has as much potential (if not more) for success as an Android adaptation does.'"

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Mascot idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27887913)

Shouldn't the Moblin mascot be a pig-bulldog hybrid who throws spears?

Re:Mascot idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27905261)

Shouldn't the Moblin mascot be a pig-bulldog hybrid who throws spears?

Isn't that Steve Ballmer?

Oh...wait.....that's chairs....

Moblin? (1, Offtopic)

TheFlannelAvenger (870106) | more than 5 years ago | (#27887929)

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Moblin [wikia.com] How are pig bulldog monster things going to help my netbook experience?

Re:Moblin? (1)

paziek (1329929) | more than 5 years ago | (#27888071)

Well, if you are gonna try to escape, they won't let you get to any Windows.

Re:Moblin? (3, Funny)

mc1138 (718275) | more than 5 years ago | (#27888075)

In today's world, security is becoming ever more important. With reports of an all Mac bot net, or iZombie network, security even on linux variants becomes ever more necessary. Enter, Moblin, armed with both spear and the tenacity to attack small blond haired boys, you're about to enter a new realm of computing experience.

Re:Moblin? (1)

Ian Alexander (997430) | more than 5 years ago | (#27888723)

Considering the number of moblins I've killed playing Zelda they could probably have picked a better name. ;)

Re:Moblin? (0, Offtopic)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#27888079)

Can someone tell me what's wrong with Slashdot's front page? I want my low-bandwidth, dialup-friendly version back but despite changing my preference multiple times, I'm getting some frakked-up yellow-and-white monstrosity.

Re:Moblin? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27889185)

Is it not more like MOBile LINux?

offtopic? really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27898823)

Mod parent funny! How is talking about Moblins (from Zelda) in a thread about Moblin (linux for netbooks) offtopic?

Great a notebook with a broken package manager (1)

yossarianuk (1402187) | more than 5 years ago | (#27887985)

Although opensuse is a very nice distro it still suffers from package manager issues (in 11.1) they should change to apt and they would have a rocking distro...

Re:Great a notebook with a broken package manager (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27888105)

Although opensuse is a very nice distro it still suffers from package manager issues (in 11.1) they should change to apt and they would have a rocking distro...

apt blah blah. rpm sucks. dependency hell....blah blah.

rpm based distros today have pretty good package managers which have nothing to envy apt.

openSUSE has a neat package manager since 11.0. Issues were in 10.1 times, 3 years ago. Today you have a neat zypper, YaST using the same engine, PackageKit integration, etc.

Re:Great a notebook with a broken package manager (2, Interesting)

EsbenMoseHansen (731150) | more than 5 years ago | (#27888541)

openSUSE has a neat package manager since 11.0. Issues were in 10.1 times, 3 years ago. Today you have a neat zypper, YaST using the same engine, PackageKit integration, etc.

Out of curiosity, does that mean that stuff like

  • unused packages removal - ie, if a a package is only installed as a dependency, and if no package which depend on it are still installed, the package can be automatically removed.
  • suggested packages, ie., packages has a list of packages which enhances the package in quesiton.
  • recommended packages, ie, packages which are not strictly required but should normally be installed with a package.
  • support for packages deprecating and/or providing other packages
  • support for running configuration utilities and such during installation

Just curious, the comparisons chart I have found are obviously out of date.

Re:Great a notebook with a broken package manager (3, Informative)

crush (19364) | more than 5 years ago | (#27889637)

Most of the tasks which you list below can be handled by Fedora-originated, distro-agnostic tools such as YUM or PackageKit. (Well, YUM is only distro-agnostic to the extent that it must be an RPM-based distro).

* unused packages removal - ie, if a a package is only installed as a dependency, and if no package which depend on it are still installed, the package can be automatically removed.

This is handled in Fedora with the use of the yum extension package-cleanup and using one of the "leaf-node" options.

* suggested packages, ie., packages has a list of packages which enhances the package in quesiton.

PackageKit does this in recent versions of Fedora, see this link [fedoraproject.org] for information on Fedora 11 font and mime-type installation.

* recommended packages, ie, packages which are not strictly required but should normally be installed with a package.

Not sure about this, seems like the previous point?

* support for packages deprecating and/or providing other packages

Obsoletes: is a feature of RPM since way-back

* support for running configuration utilities and such during installation

Again, since way back whenever it has been possible to run scriptlets in RPM specfiles.

Re:Great a notebook with a broken package manager (1)

EsbenMoseHansen (731150) | more than 5 years ago | (#27890047)

Most of the tasks which you list below can be handled by Fedora-originated, distro-agnostic tools such as YUM or PackageKit. (Well, YUM is only distro-agnostic to the extent that it must be an RPM-based distro).

Thanks for answering. I haven't used an RPM based distribution since Suse 7.2, so I was somewhat behind.

* suggested packages, ie., packages has a list of packages which enhances the package in quesiton.

PackageKit does this in recent versions of Fedora, see this link [fedoraproject.org] for information on Fedora 11 font and mime-type installation.

* recommended packages, ie, packages which are not strictly required but should normally be installed with a package.

Not sure about this, seems like the previous point?

* support for packages deprecating and/or providing other packages

From reading the link, I think you misunderstood me. Probably my fault... but cute integration feature on that page :) Sort of like missing-command but for file types and fonts.

What I meant that when installing a package, there are often related packages. A stupid example: I install a compiler. Now, having a compiler without its standard library is technically possible, but probably not what the user wants. Hence, the compiler would *recommend* installing the standard library, which would mean that the package manager installs the standard library unless the user somehow tells it not to (config, command-line switch). Also, the user might want to have API documentation for the standard library (if the user are going to write source code for that language), but might not if the user is just installing to compile some code somebody else wrote. Hence, the package manager *suggest* installing the documentation, but does not do so by default.

Does that make sense? It is a very nice way to split up dependencies: must-have, probably-should-have, might-want.

Again, thanks for information. Package manager is one of those programs that fascinates me, but it's not really feasible to use a lot of different ones at one time.

Re:Great a notebook with a broken package manager (1)

transwarp (900569) | more than 5 years ago | (#27890139)

YaST in SUSE has recommended packages. Installing a package sets recommended dependencies to install, but if you choose not to install them, or have them version-locked or set to never install, it doesn't complain. That's my experience at least, I don't know if it's the intended behavior.

Re:Great a notebook with a broken package manager (1)

crush (19364) | more than 5 years ago | (#27891117)

Sounds like you might be interested in SuSE's patterns [opensuse.org] . Supposedly PackageKit will be doing this stuff in the near future too.

I think you might be able to solve that problem with YUM by defining your own groups in a comp file for your own repository (or spin of Fedora) (see this link [baseurl.org] and also search "man yum.conf" for group_package_types) and choosing to make your hypothetical standard library a "Default" package type.

Not quite as simple as .deb Suggests, Enhances and Recommends but still do-able and PackageKit "bundles" will supposedly be even simpler and address exactly your hypothetical example [gnome.org]

PackageKit "catalogs" (1)

crush (19364) | more than 5 years ago | (#27891191)

That was an old link that I supplied and the correct name for PK is a catalog. The idea is that it's more appropriate to define such relationships at a level higher than that of actual package (whether .deb, .rpm or whatever) relationships. That way if you want to be able to provide a simple way for someone to get the ideal environment for developing on Whizzbang compiler with Whacko-lib then you can provide the catalog and it will work not just for rpm-based systems, but also deb-based and whatever else. http://www.packagekit.org/pk-faq.html#catalogs [packagekit.org]

Re:Great a notebook with a broken package manager (1)

JesseMcDonald (536341) | more than 5 years ago | (#27892807)

This is handled in Fedora with the use of the yum extension package-cleanup and using one of the "leaf-node" options.

Just out of curiosity, does it actually track which packages were automatically installed, like apt, or does it simply remove all the seemingly-unused dependencies, even the ones specifically requested by the user?

Re:Great a notebook with a broken package manager (1)

oddityfds (138457) | more than 5 years ago | (#27892429)

  • unused packages removal - ie, if a a package is only installed as a dependency, and if no package which depend on it are still installed, the package can be automatically removed.

yum install yum-utils
package-cleanup --leaves

  • suggested packages, ie., packages has a list of packages which enhances the package in quesiton.
  • recommended packages, ie, packages which are not strictly required but should normally be installed with a package.

I don't think so, but as crush mentioned PackageKit will sometimes suggest packages to install.

  • support for packages deprecating and/or providing other packages

Sure.

  • support for running configuration utilities and such during installation

No, RPM package installation is completely non-interactive by design.

rpm+yum+PackageKit (1)

oddityfds (138457) | more than 5 years ago | (#27888243)

Moblin has about as much Fedora roots as it has SUSE roots and the package management does come from Fedora, not from SUSE, AFAICT.

Re:rpm+yum+PackageKit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27889781)

Seems like Fedora is over 80% Fedora-derived [fedoraproject.org] according to Fedora Weekly News.

What's up with SUSE? (3, Interesting)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 5 years ago | (#27888003)

It's interesting to follow Novell's moves regarding SUSE; first, they lay off lots of SUSE developers, now they are just "skipping" it in favor of Moblin. I'd be surprised if there was no hard feelings regarding the decision among the SUSE team.

Re:What's up with SUSE? (3, Insightful)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 5 years ago | (#27888035)

Nevermind my earlier comment - Infoworld article states:

Novell began assigning its Linux developers to work on Moblin several months ago

So basically, we will be seeing some SUSE-ization of Moblin. Which is good, because IIRC Moblin has pretty immature/shallow userspace so far.

Re:What's up with SUSE? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27888357)

So basically, we will be seeing some SUSE-ization of Moblin.

It's GNU/SuSE/Moblin/Linux you insensitive clod!

Are you kidding? Of course it's bad news for SuSE (2, Insightful)

hwyhobo (1420503) | more than 5 years ago | (#27889825)

InfoWorld wonders if the collaboration efforts aren't a bad omen for Novell's SUSE Linux

Every time Novell gets involved with UNIX, it spells doom for the latter. I worked for Novell when it purchased USL and UNIX. We lamented the faith that inevitably had to befall UNIX because we knew how UNIX-averse and arrogant the upper echelons were. There were people back then in charge of Novell who actually believed they would build competitive Internet run on IPX - I swear I am not joking.

I don't believe much has changed. To a lot of those MBA types all those technologies are just meangless abbreviations and acronyms, and as long as they can rearrange letters on the table and get something that looks catchy to some marketing drone, they think they've got a winner.

Re:Are you kidding? Of course it's bad news for Su (1)

jonaskoelker (922170) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893619)

and as long as they can rearrange letters on the table and get something that looks catchy to some marketing drone, they think they've got a winner.

Next time you see them, tell them from me that they should go with BetaMax! ;)

A new Zelda? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27889829)

A new Zelda? Exclusively for netbooks? Awesome!

Will they fix the GMA500 drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27891559)

So does this mean that they'll finally release a working set of GMA 500 drivers (the chipset paired with the Z5xx atom processors)? -J

Ok can someone explain? (1)

shomon2 (71232) | more than 5 years ago | (#28033991)

What do I need to read and where do I need to go to get android running on one of those old oneTs? Or whatever - it's a testing ground, sold to a very generic audience. I would love to be able to run an ubuntu distro on there, although android sounds worth trying on a netbook.

One thing about netbooks though is they are half way between a phone and a computer, so they shouldn't need to be so complicated - both in interface design and in expectations. Another is this reliance on google docs or youtube and other commercial free-as-in-beer (I never thought I'd say that) services that just don't seem to have a proper funding model in a very unstable economy.

We really need to develop distributed software models that we can use to keep this kind of thing going. Projects like opengoo [opengoo.org] , or various mesh network wifi projects [guardian.co.uk] and organisations [bristolwireless.net] seem really useful, and ones that could easily adapt towards it, but I think the netbook will eventually be their playground...

I would love to find out for sure if at 30-50 watts we're finally at something I can attach an exercise bike or a couple of solar panels to and actually get enough power to run it. In environmental terms it would be a huge breakthrough. And I wouldn't spend so much time reading email.

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