Alienware Refusing Customers As Thieves 665
ChrisPaget writes "Thinking about buying Alienware (now owned by Dell)? Think again. After buying an almost-new Alienware laptop on eBay, I've spent the last week trying to get hold of a Smart Bay caddy to connect a second hard drive (about $150 for $5 of bent metal). Four different Alienware teams have refused to even give me a price on this accessory, instead accusing me of stealing the machine since I didn't buy it directly from their eBay store. They want me to persuade the eBay seller I did buy it from to add me as an authorized user of his Alienware account — they have no concept of 'ownership transfer' and instead assume that if you're not in their system, you must be a thief."
Cars (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Cars (Score:5, Interesting)
Imagine if you paid cash for a car from a guy selling one in his driveway. A few months later, maybe you need a brake job, so you head to the dealer to have them do the work.
Do you expect anything except the dealer to do the brake job? Of course not. It's your car, you need brakes, so put brakes in it. But when the dealer types the VIN into his computer and it comes up "stolen", and says to you "sorry, there's going to be a delay," you might assume that he's just running a bad dealership. But that's not how the law works. If they discover you're in possession of a stolen car, they MUST notify the police, and it WILL get impounded and returned to the rightful owner. That's pretty easy to do when it's still in the dealer's garage, but not so easy if he lets the customer leave with it.
In the case of Alienware, if they sent a random customer who asked for a part a note saying "Sorry, but your PC is reported stolen, please bring it to the cops," the chances are good the customer will simply disappear, keeping the stolen goods. What are the chances he is going to voluntarily bring it to the police and say "here, have this laptop, I bought it from eBay and it turns out it was stolen. So you can just keep it, and I'll be out the thousand dollars then. Sure, I'll have a nice day."
Bottom line: how does Mr. Paget know that his laptop isn't stolen merchandise? He says got "a good deal" on it from a "hassle free seller" who shipped it promptly. If I was fencing hot PCs on eBay, you bet I'd be a hassle free, fast shipper. I'd also be gone in about a week. I'd say there's a damn good chance it IS stolen merchandise, and he's about to lose his money.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cars (Score:4, Interesting)
Where did the companies of today get the stupid idea that they can do good business by treating customers and potential customers like crap? Perhaps it comes from the customers and potential customers who accept such treatment willingly.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
> Where did the companies of today get the stupid idea that they can do good business by treating customers and potential customers like crap?
Perhaps they've been studying software companies.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Informative)
Dell's policy is to not talk to people who aren't authorized on the account that owns the computer. Considering the number of laptops that get stolen, that's a good policy, IMO.
Now if the user bought the computer legally on e-Bay, he should have some kind of sales receipt, or at least know the name of the person he bought it from. If he knows the name of the person he bought it from he can go online to the Alienware website and fill out a transfer of ownership form. If he doesn't know the name, or he bought it from a retailer, he can fax in a copy of the sales receipt to customer care, and have them transfer the ownership for him.
But instead of doing a little legwork at his end to get the system actually transferred to his name, he chooses to go online and grouse about how a company is treating him like a thief.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
And there's a difference between accusing you of a crime and saying that I'm not going to help you with your computer until you've proven you own it legitimately. Dell/Alienware has zero obligation to provide any support whatsoever to you for a system that isn't covered by warranty. None. And the terms of their warranty say that it's transferrable, but you have to prove that you bought it legitimately rather than stole it. That's more than you get from most other vendors in the computer market.
Just because it's a big corporation doesn't mean that they are required to sell to you. The only circumstances under which refusing to service/sell to you are when it's a human rights issue... if they refuse to sell to women, that's illegal. if they refuse to sell to homosexuals, that's illegal. if they refuse to sell to jews, that's illegal. if they refuse to sell to anybody who's physically disabled, that's illegal. if they refuse to sell to somebody who doesn't want to prove that they came by it legally, then that's well within their rights as a corporation.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"So in other words, using your examples, a jew, woman, homosexual, or disabled person has more rights than a white male."
Where the fuck did the GP write that? He didn't explicitly say "if they refuse to sell to white males, that's illegal" but it's implied, just like "if they refuse to sell to black people, that's illegal" is also implied, even though he didn't explicitly say that either. Or are you calling him a racist?
Are you really so fucking dumb you can't tell the difference between a list containing a
Re:Cars (Score:4, Insightful)
No. That's not what I said at all. They could refuse to sell to a gay jewish disabled black woman, and as long as they have a legitimate reason besides her minority status to deny her service, then she can't sue them. Refusing to prove that she came by it legally is a perfectly adequate reason.
Minorities don't have greater rights, they have greater protections against discrimination.
Using your example, I don't think you could have won a lawsuit against the motel, even if you were black. You were living there for 6 months, and a motel is not a rent controlled housing. Come peak season, they can legitimately jack up your rate to match seasonal rates, and if you're not willing to pay what he could make for the room (say $100/night, so $3,000/month), then he can quite legally expel you from the room. It's got nothing to do with minority status or lack thereof. A lot of that depends on the judge who hears your case, but in Canada, your case would almost certainly be thrown out of court with prejudice.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
There's no indication that he's stolen it, they're assuming he has. This is the problem.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Reasonably?
In the automotive world, tampering with or removing the VIN before selling the car is a crime all by itself:...
Another totally irrelevant car analogy. WTF is it with people here that they can't think about anything -- software, laptops, relationships -- unless they can put it "in the automotive world"?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Another totally irrelevant car analogy. WTF is it with people here that they can't think about anything -- software, laptops, relationships -- unless they can put it "in the automotive world"?
You got me. I don't understand it either. Most of these guys who make these stupid automotive comparisons are like confused idiots driving around and totally lost. I guess they think they can get a lot of mileage out of car analogies. But if you ask me, they are running on empty.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
WTF is it with people here that they can't think about anything -- software, laptops, relationships -- unless they can put it "in the automotive world"?
Well, analogies are like cars...
Re:Cars (Score:4, Funny)
I notice that law mentions motor vehicles, but not computers. I fail to understand its relevance to this discussion. Was this computer extremely heavily modded or something so it fell under this law?
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
You have NEVER bought used gear legitimately before? I seriously doubt this guy is a thief. And making that presumption is incredibly offensive. There could be any number of reasons why documentation didn't move with the machine.
But as many others have pointed out, it is clearly their intent to discourage second-hand sales. There are lots of companies and industries that operate this way. To me, the "value" or the measure of what something is "worth" is not what something costs, but rather what you can get for it if you needed to sell it. New cars are not worth what people pay for them. Diamonds of any size or quality are almost completely worthless. Alienware (Dell?) is clearly attempting to devalue the second-hand market and it may be within their rights to deny sale of accessories to people who are not the primary equipment owners. But even this is a disservice to "their actual customers" since it truly lowers the resale value of the gear should they choose to sell it at some point down the road.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
The same seems to apply to this case, from what I can tell. The guy wanted a spare part. He called Alienware to order it. Why did they even ask what he wanted it for? If he were going to use it as a paper weight, or as a weird kind of sex toy, what difference does that make to them? It's a spare part.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
bad companies don't make any profit of a second hand laptop.
A good company would sell them support and services, and judging from the summery, at $150 for a smart bay, they are close to doing just that.
Lets not forget that all PC's need to be replaced, if new owner is impressed with your service and quality, he may purchase directly from you in future.
There's also the original owner, if he has trouble on-selling his old PC because of you, he's less likely to purchase newer models from you.
1. Treat your Customers well. ...
2.
3. Profit!
Re:Cars (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You would be surprised at how poorly policed title transfer is. I have a good friend who bought a $50K used car from a dealer only to have the FBI impound it between the point when he paid the dealer and when the shipping company should have picked it up later that week - and the only reason the FBI impounded it was because the real owner had connections to LE, even then it took 2 months before they did. The dealer had an officially issued title, it turned out that the car was stolen through fraud (fake c
Re:Cars (Score:5, Informative)
In the case of Alienware, if they sent a random customer who asked for a part a note saying "Sorry, but your PC is reported stolen, please bring it to the cops,"
That's not what happened. They said to send a warranty number that would prove he bought it from them. Alienware hasn't said that the laptop was reported stolen.
I'd like to add (Score:5, Interesting)
This is pretty much one of many scenario's where people would mock the tin foil hat crowd when they get all hysterical about companies/government keeping too much data on them. In this case in the pursuit of "customer service" (read marketing opportunity) they also get to turn every second hand product (MBA's may translate that to "missed sale") into a ticking time bomb. Forget the warranty, you can't get it fixed at any price.
Sounds like a job for the attorney general and/or the FTC. Not that you can get their attention.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
All the guy wants is to buy additional hardware for his machine. Why should he need a warranty number for that? Should car part stores ask for your VIN number when you want to buy a new headlight?
Perhaps a better analogy is laptop batteries. Why should Dell care how I got my laptop, if all I want is to spend money buying a new battery? They certainly don't lose anything - on the contrary, refusing service to me is what's losing them money!
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
As far as car parts and VINs go, it's possible they might ask for the VIN if you need specific information about the car's motor that you don't happen to know. VINs encode information about the car's engine, as well as offer a unique serial number.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
If they discover you're in possession of a stolen car, they MUST notify the police...
I call BS. There is absolutely no legal duty to report someone else's possession of stolen property to the police. A dealership might choose to make it a policy, but that's the dealership's own choice and not mandated by law. If there is a law in your jurisdiction that requires dealerships to do this, then it is specific to your jurisdiction only - and would be highly unusual, since such "duty to report" statutes tend to be very controversial and are usually limited to "think of the children" scenarios. And yes, IAALawStudent.
Oh, nevermind (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
Better analogy. Go to an auto parts store and ask for brake pads for a 2005 Taurus. I assure you they will not even ask for a vin number. They sell parts, you want to buy parts, end of discussion.
Apparently, Alienware has no actual reason to believe the laptop is stolen but chooses to ASSUME that it is because they didn't directly sell it to him.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But when the dealer types the VIN into his computer and it comes up "stolen"[..]
They aren't checking the computer, they're checking the owner. If the dealer took your name instead of the VIN and checked if he had records of a car being sold to you, then calling you a thief because he does not that IS wrong.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Cars (Score:5, Informative)
I'm fairly certain that even if it is stolen, if you buy goods without knowledge that they are stolen (i.e., in good faith) you are considered a buyer in the ordinary course of business and you'll take free of any prior interests. It's called the "garage sale rule". The person from whom it was stolen can still hold the thief liable for damages, but can't get their original goods back. If that's the case here, this guy is legally the rightful owner and Alienware should treat him as such.
You didn't have to write it, but You Are Not A Lawyer, and you should warn people before posting legal advice (especially incorrect legal advice.) There is no such legal concept as the "garage sale rule" with respect to stolen property. According to the law, as the purchaser of merchandise you have the same rights to the property as the person who sold it to you. That means if have a thing which you have used as collateral on a debt (called a secured interest) and you haven't paid it all back yet, even if you sell it to me the property is still secured by the bank, and can be repossessed by them if the loan is not repaid. It also means that if you have no rights to the property at all, as in the case of stolen property, then I as the buyer have no rights to it either.
A garage sale does provide protection from the seller being compelled to look up the serial number if such a lookup is required of an "ordinary course of business" seller; in the case of a garage sale the seller is classified as not an "in the ordinary course" seller and is exempted from that requirement. Maybe that's what you are thinking of as a "garage sale rule".
Of course I am not a lawyer either, so don't take this as gospel, but at least I do a bit of fact checking before making a really outlandish claim.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Ignoring the fact that cars are registered and titles and things like that so you usually know if you are in possession of a stolen car, there is no reason to think this computer is "hot".
Unless its been reported stolen Alienware should not be hassling this guy. These things are registered with the company when you buy them. So you can probably call in and say my box is missing without needing the serial. When ordering parts its certainly reasonable for Alienware to ask for the serial, which you should b
Corporations and stolen laptops (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Cars (Score:5, Interesting)
Au contraire mon frere! I just recently bought a 2002 dual processor Powermac G4 for 275 bucks. It runs the latest version of Mac OS X, runs great, and I paid about 10% of its original price.
You should qualify your statement - "Used computers aren't good value for your money UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR."
If you're a saavy bargain-hunter you can find real gems on eBay or in the classifieds.
find a seller who knows that the value is crap. (Score:5, Insightful)
Quite right, I am selling a powerbook g4 with a bad optical drive fror $225 today.
THATS ALL IT IS WORTH. Yet I see the same computer on Craigslist / ebay for much
much more. Lots of people try to pump the value with illegit software installs
(CS4, FINAL CUT PRO!, etc.....), but we all know how much those are worth.
I always found ebay completed auctions are a good measurement for market
value (a tiny bit inflated but pretty accurate). I sell my stuff locally instead
for cash, no shipping, no paypal fees, no ebay fees (they really fckin rape you nowdays).
And, unless your seller can provide original receipt, you should assume it is
a stolen machine.
and lastly : ALIENWARE ?????
cmon now.....
Re:find a seller who knows that the value is crap. (Score:5, Insightful)
And, unless your seller can provide original receipt, you should assume it is a stolen machine.
Most people are not going to be able to find a receipt for something they bought some time ago. To assume it's stolen is absurd.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Insightful)
It's more like buying a used car from someone, trying to buy an oil filter directly from the dealership, and being refused because you're not the original (authorized) owner of the car. You're not asking them to change your oil, which would give them a reason to check your warranty information to make sure everything's in line, or recording your VIN number in their system so they can keep track of what car's they've worked on for the day, he's just someone who wants to buy a part from them. They're just telling you they can't sell you an oil filter because they don't have a record of you buying the car from them.
Really, why should he even be required to be the owner of any Alienware merchandise to buy a replacement part for the laptop? I'm not entirely sure of what he told the CSR's on the phone, but I wonder what they'd say if I called up and wanted to buy a replacement glowing alien head (from their laptops) to decorate something in my house with. Will they deny me because I'm not an authorized owner of the laptop that the glowing alien head fits on, or will they gladly sell me the part regardless of whether I own one of their laptops or not?
If they're denying him the part because he wants it replaced free under the original owner's warranty, that's one thing. Refusing to sell him the part because they have no record of him buying anything directly from them is different.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Whoever dies with the most kids wins!
Regarding your sig, do you mean that in the "parent" sense or in the "school bus driver at a train crossing" sense? :-)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Well actually.... they won't sell you a key or an electronic fob unless you can prove you own the car.
Re:Cars (Score:5, Funny)
I think it's a case of Chris being an idiot and Slashdot demonstrating, once again, a complete lack of quality content.
Seconded. Random rants on customer service? Hardly seems the place for it...
Re:Cars (Score:5, Informative)
However, the fix is $5. Just buy ONLY the connector ($5 from various online suppliers). The drive doesn't need a caddy - the caddy is made out of such thin sheet metal because even the thickness of a piece of electrical tape will be enough to wedge the drive firmly in place in its' bay. I ran with 2 hard drives for months - without even the tape - before tracking down a caddy from a similar model.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And I don't mean buried in older blog posts - I mean in the post that was submitted to slashdot, and thus subject to the scrutiny of hundreds of thousands of people .
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, it's Dell as a whole. I recently put in a call to Dell for support on a Latitude D820 that now fails to boot. It's covered under warranty for another year but Dell refuses to work on it because I'm not listed as the purchaser or authorized agent for the system. My business bought this system through an employee (via a reimbursement) who no longer works with the organization. I don't have any reasonable way to have this ex-employee 'vouch' that I own the system.
Whatever happened to the days whe
Alienware (Score:5, Insightful)
The monster cable of pre-built PCs
Re: (Score:2)
I was thinking they're closer to the sort of stuff you get on Head-fi than monster. Pink noise cable burn-in CDs and so on.
Re:Alienware (Score:5, Informative)
The monster cable of pre-built PCs
Couldn't agree more with this assessment. Alienware is hideously overpriced and their systems aren't really that good. I have an Alienware D900T that a friend of mine owns sitting in my closet. The video card stopped working and it's going to cost $500 for the replacement for a wimpy GeForce 6800. He doesn't want to spend the money so I've disassembled it for the good parts and junked the rest. In disassembling the machine, it's obvious that Alienware doesn't back up their bloated prices with anything resembling quality, too.
Nobody in their right mind should be buying Alienware. There's nothing about their machines that you can't get from regular branded PCs and custom built PCs, except for a huge price hike on the Alienware.
Re:Alienware (Score:5, Insightful)
The D900T is a laptop and alienware uses a special propitiatory semi-interchangeable (subject to power/cooling/size limitations) module system for the videocards in those. I highly doubt you're going to get a replacement part anywhere except alienware.
Re:Alienware (Score:5, Funny)
I thought that was Apple.
Goodbye karma!
no honor among thieves (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Indeed. I have to wonder why those who want such power don't just build their own machines.
Re:no honor among thieves (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:no honor among thieves (Score:5, Informative)
*shrug*
I've been building PCs for decades.
Meanwhile, my wife and I each have an Alienware desktop PC.
Why? Well, first, we each needed a new computer. The motherboard was dead on her venerable Dell desktop, and Dell's case was sufficiently strange to preclude replacing that component by itself. Later, I wanted a box to play games on, without disturbing my Linux desktop machine.
Second: The price was right. Before we bought these computers, I did the usual sanity check against Newegg. After buying putting a whole PC worth of good components of similar specification into my cart, the price difference was about $100.
Yeah - $100.
For that hundred bucks, one gets a very fancy ATX case which is easy to work on. Working audio ports on the front which interface properly with the sound card (instead of stupid rear-panel pass-through crap), such that the sound card can detect when headphones are plugged in and reconfigure itself automatically. An in-home service agreement. A PC which doesn't need assembled, but just unpacked and plugged in.
And unlike most prebuilt machines, when they're first turned on, they just boot Windows. I don't have to spend a couple of hours removing extraneous crap software. It comes up and behaves about the same way a new PC would if I'd have taken the time to build it myself and install Windows with a base load of drivers, except I didn't have to do it myself.
Meanwhile, they use about the same parts I'd have chosen myself if I were building a new PC. Good DVD-R, XFX video, fancy-pants motherboard with lots of expansion. The power supply is nameless, but is every bit as heavy as a good power supply ought to be. It included the same Logitech mouse I'd have bought myself. So on, so forth.
And it's pretty.
I don't think Alienware's pricing is out-of-line at all.
YMMV.
Re:no honor among thieves (Score:5, Funny)
Roughly 2004ish I bought what was on paper a very nice Alienware desktop.
While I waited, my machine bounced around their eleventy bajillion phases of testing and building and installing, etc. seemingly at random for about 2 months. When the machine arrived, it still hadn't hit "shipped" status on their site.
When it arrived, I opened the box and plugged everything in and SLI didn't work... I investigated and found that the SLI bridge wasn't seated properly. I fixed that and everything was okay for a couple days.
Then I discovered that I was getting corruption on the hard drive and things weren't working *quite* right on the RAID. After poking around I found it'd been configured slightly wrong. Being a power user I wasn't really worried, I'd paid for them to image my hard drive and a restore after configuring it right couldn't be *that* hard...
Then I discovered that my restore disc was completely blank. The only way Alienware was willing to help me was if I shipped it at my expense to their service center to be reimaged. (Reimage WHAT exactly? The RAID was hosed, there wasn't anything to reimage!) Relatively minor setback but I can install Windows, I just didn't want to...
So I installed Windows and discovered my driver disc was completely blank as well. I used my wife's machine and managed to get online to download drivers from their website. After rebooting an ungodly number of times, downloading for seemingly forever and putting together my own backups, the machine finally worked properly.
The parts would have been far cheaper at NewEgg but I was flush with cash from my mother's life insurance and wanted to have a flawless machine I didn't have to build and troubleshoot myself. The same machine was twice as expensive from Falcon Northwest and parts availability was an issue so I went to Alienware. This didn't work out. In the end, Alienware offered me the amazingly unhelpful option of shipping it back at my own expense and being refunded most of my money, the 30% restocking fee still applies when they manage to fuck up the machine before shipping it untested.
Fast forward 2 years and my Windows restore/install disk doesn't work for reasons which are vague and stupid. I installed Linux and various WINE implementations and it does what I want it to do, runs faster and more solidly than it did out of the box.
Alienware just has horrible CS overall (Score:5, Interesting)
One of our offices needed a couple of PC's and I ordered two through Alienware - everything went through fine and they were set to arrive two weeks later.
Three weeks after I placed the order, Alienware informed me that they hadn't built or shipped the computers because I had asked that they be shipped to an address other than the CC billing address.
I'll never do business with that company again.
Re:Alienware just has horrible CS overall (Score:5, Informative)
Alienware feels like they're trying to do business in a new age of credit card fraud but can't quite figure it out yet. Almost all vendors require your shipping address to be on your credit card as a billing address, but they can tell you about it almost instantly. Customer service tells you that you can add a secondary address on your credit card really easily. Not Alienware. Many vendors require you to have a proof of ownership for certain service. Dell lets you change the ownership online. Not Alienware.
Alienware needs to invest some of its hard-tricked money into providing decent customer service.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
My god am I happy that we do not have this credit card crap in Germany. Here you can also pay with a debit entry, or at arrival (for a small fee of 2.5€), can deliver to wherever you want (if you pay the transport price of course), and when you got it, and it is not what you wanted, you can
- in case you payed on arrival: Inspect it before signing and paying. And refuse to accept it, in case it's not what you wanted.
- in case of a debit entry: Send it back in the first 14 days (but you have to pay the t
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Oh man you Germans! You're so much better than us Americans! There's nothing I love more than to log on to Slashdot and see tons of posts from Europeans telling us how shitty we are! Especially ignorant ones!
See, we have debit cards in the US. You can issue a chargeback to your debit card provider if you get delivered a defective product. There's also no particular requirement to ship the item back, although if you're not an ass you'd call up the retailer and ask about it.
There's no 15 day limit, but I thin
Well, a lot of stuff on eBay is stolen... (Score:5, Interesting)
Did the vendor include the original invoice? That should work.
Can't understand their 'fix' of adding you as user of the original owner's account, though. Surely goes against the basic rules of CRM.
While we're on the subject of 'ownership transfer', note also that under most EULAs, you should also buy the software all over again...
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Well, a lot of stuff on eBay is stolen... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, but it is a contract, and contracts are enforced by law.
I'm fairly certain this is still not correct.
The "L" in EULA stands for "license", not contract. A license is different than a contract. What kind of written contracts do you know that don't require a signature or any kind of consideration?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Assuming that all of the relevant discs were provided along with the hardware, that would conflict with the right of first sale, which can not be licensed away [arstechnica.com] by any EULA, at least in the United States.
Re:Well, a lot of stuff on eBay is stolen... (Score:5, Informative)
which can not be licensed away [arstechnica.com] by any EULA, at least in the United States.
Non sequitur. If you read your linked article, you'll see this bit:
Citing the 1977 case of United States v. Wise, which involved the sale of used films obtained under dubious circumstances, Jones found that the Ninth Circuit's precedents suggested that the circumstances surrounding the sale of AutoCAD software constituted a sale, not merely a license. Therefore, the First Sale Doctrine applied, and Vernor was not bound by any of the terms in Autodesk's license agreement.
But the judge acknowledged that three more recent Ninth Circuit decisions involving software seemed to cut in the opposite direction without explicitly overturning Wise. Jones found that Wise was controlling precedent, and ruled in Vernor's favor. If the case gets appealed to the Ninth Circuit, the conflict among these precedents is likely to occupy the court's attention.
I don't know if that case was appealed, or what's happened to it. However, even if it was appealed and upheld, I believe that ruling would set precedent only for the 9th circuit, not the entire U.S. I don't remember off the top of my head, but I seem to recall there being a circuit split on this issue.
Re:Well, a lot of stuff on eBay is stolen... (Score:4, Informative)
Depends where you are. In Germany you can, since a court ruled that "retail"/"OEM" distinctions have no basis in law.
I bought one... (Score:3, Informative)
Couldn't you just... (Score:2)
tagged !whine !boohoo and others as they come (Score:3, Informative)
For the price of an Alienware, you could end up with a Thinkpad W700ds. Order it without the tablet and you'll have a manufacturer that encourages such activity.
Besides, Dell isn't exactly well-known for originality or quality.
The parts aren't on eBay as well? (Score:5, Informative)
Warranty (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope. They are vastly overpriced for what they are and I'm not in a habit of paying extra for computers because of the way they look.
Four different Alienware teams have refused to even give me a price on this accessory, instead accusing me of stealing the machine since I didn't buy it directly from their eBay store.
If that is true then I agree it's crazy. I noticed that they were asking for a warranty number and I've never heard of a computer manufacturer refusing to SELL you a part unless you have a warranty number. However, is it at all possible that the support people were misunderstanding you and thinking that you wanted the part for free, under warranty? I know it's four different people and you explained it to them, but it is perfectly possible that all four are complete idiots and didn't even bother listening fully to your explanation of what you wanted.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Show me an Apple that is vastly overpriced for a computer with identical specs.
Re:Warranty (Score:5, Informative)
For example. 13" Macbook. 4GB memory. 320GB, 5400rpm HDD. $1774. 13" XPS M1330, 4GB memory (but slower), 500GB 7200rpm HDD, $1174. But guess what, I can upgrade to 4GB of DDR3 memory for $69. I'm still $530 cheaper than the MacBook.
So, please, have at it. Nothing too esoteric there.
Re:Warranty (Score:5, Interesting)
Killing the resale value (Score:2, Interesting)
They are just ensuring there is no resale value for there products. Imagine if a car company refused to sell you repair parts if you buy the car second hand? Their products would have ZERO resale value, which means that no one would buy one in the first place, because they would know that when they wanted to trade up, there was no market for their old model.
Given the resale value of used Apple hardware, those prices don't seem so high now.
Transfer (Score:5, Interesting)
Why did the former owner not transfer his alienware account to you?
Sounds like the one ripping you off is the original seller, much like if you bought a car and he didn't transfer the title.
Then again...why do you need an alienware account in the first place?
Re:Transfer (Score:5, Insightful)
Now if the seller does still own Alienware machines then this suggestion is even more ridiculous since they would still need their account for their own very probably hardware failures. Then there wouldn't really even be a possibility of them removing personal information from the account before giving access to the new owner.
This is nothing like transferring the title to a car, since there is a mechanism to do that. This is like demanding someone who sold you a used but unlocked cell phone put you on their plan. You should not have to create joint access to your private support and billing logins in order to resell a used computer.
I look at Alienware as .... (Score:3, Insightful)
over priced pair of shoes anymore they are no better or worse than any other laptop vendor, but some folks just gotta have the whole "Alienware case of coolness" thing going on.
just amounts to the same parts as Dell, Toshiba, HP, Apple Ect just in a pretty shell.
just like shoes no matter how much you pay for them be it $5.00 or $300.00 they all will wear out at about the same time anymore as most makers of these products out source to the same companies in the same countries.
R.Morton
It sound shitty, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
How are they supposed to know if you bought it or stole it?
Maybe they should have a warranty-transfer process? Like automobiles do? Maybe they already do, the seller just lost the card?
Then again, how do you know the seller didn't steal the laptop? Are you in possession of stolen property?
Again, there is no way for Alienware to know whether your possession of the laptop is legit unless the legit owner notifies them of the transfer.
So I would go back to the seller and tell him/her to resolve the situtation.
Dude, you just got DELLED. (Score:3, Informative)
I bought my wife a Dell. Just after the warranty, the motherboard died. They would not/could not provide a replacement motherboard (their statements were factually inconsistent). I trashed the damn thing and cannibalized some parts.
Dude, you just got Delled.
may actually be stolen (Score:5, Informative)
Lots of laptops sold on eBay are stolen property. If the one you bought was stolen, then the original owner may have reported it stolen, which means the serial # is in a database that Dell maintains of "hot" laptops. No Dell-authorized repair company will work on them.
To their credit, though, they put the database online so you can see if a serial # is in there. Anyone considering buying a Dell laptop on eBay should look up that laptop's serial number first to see if it's stolen. Caveat Emptor.
I will never buy another Alienware... (Score:5, Informative)
However, their handling of the replacement is. I shipped the laptop and called a few days later to ensure that they had received it, to which they claimed they had. Two weeks from the time I sent it in I had still heard nothing, so I called them, at which point they claimed to have never received it. I managed to misplace the shipping paperwork I had because I believed the laptop had showed up, etc...
They accused me of lying and having never sent in the laptop until I was able to get replacement paperwork, etc. from the post office. The reality was that they had misplaced it in their shipping warehouse. So after the two week delay I then had to wait 6 more weeks for the out of stock part to come in so that they could replace it.
And so, with prompt service, and considerate customer service like that, who needs anyone else.
I've got an Alienware... (Score:4, Informative)
And I have to say, my impression of the company as a whole is that they suck royal balls. I love my laptop, I spoiled myself and got the best m15x money could buy, right? They made a mistake on the nameplate. They refused to even sell me another, they said that they don't offer them as seperate accessories and since I didn't immediately notify them, tough for me. I went out of town the day after I got my laptop, and didnt notice right away. Anyway, long story short, I love my laptop, works great with Linux, but I recommend as a customer that Alienware is one of those, buy it and hope you never have to deal with them companies.
This is normal for Dell (Score:4, Informative)
This is actually Dell's entire process and proceedure. I bought an off lease Dell laptop from a retailer who got it through dfsdirect.ca (dell financial services). The damn thing had a bad fan, so I called up Dell to buy the fan and just replace it myself. They wouldn't sell me the fan because I didn't know the name and address of the original owner.
I'll never buy a Dell anything again.
Alienware Sucks (Score:3, Informative)
You don't need the caddy - just the $5 connector (Score:4, Informative)
The caddy only hold the drive in place - and since it's such a tight fit anyway, you'll find that if you just buy the connector (you can get 2 for $20 pretty much anywhere - even feeBay), you'll be okay.
I ran my 2nd drive in my laptop for months with just the connector. If you're worried about it moving, a piece of electrical tape makes a good shim.
Hah, you think that's bad? (Score:3, Informative)
You think that's bad? A pile of my friends worked for Alienware, specifically he was in customer support which included handling disgruntled customers, taking orders, and trying to find solutions to problems.
He was told "stop putting orders through so quickly" because the contract allows us to charge them and make it later. Sure it takes 6 months for the customer to receive their laptop, but don't worry, people who buy Alienware convince themselves that it's a better product, and worth the wait.
He was told "all of those machines being delivered with problems, tell them it's a problem with the software" because a lot of the laptops were being delivered faulty.
That's just 2 really bad stories.
Although this friend obviously quit and in spectacular fashion, I've several other friends who still work there, and inform me that it's business as usual.
I would never purchase anything from Alienware ever! I don't care if they are selling tissues, they'll find a way to fuck it up!
Happening more and more... (Score:4, Informative)
This is a consequence of less and less of the value in a "hardware product" being the actual hardware. I'm seeing it in the musical "devices" I buy - try getting your Pod reauthorized by Line 6 so you can download firmware updates if you don't have a receipt from a seller. Try to get firmware updates for your second-hand Roland keyboard. Try to get firmware updates for a DVR. My assumption is that before long, if you don't have an official registration for a motherboard or video card, you won't be able to get drivers. The bottom line is that, as more value is found in the software included with the hardware, the hardware device will be treated more and more like licensed software, with all that means for registration, etc. And as this happens, it's no surprise that once sane "hardware" vendors start acting like software vendors with respect to licensing. I don't like it, but it does appear to be the way things are going - car analogies notwithstanding.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Sounds just like Dell.. (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
A simple check of the serial number should be able to determine whether it is stolen or not. Keeping a digital photograph of the serial number of every valuable item seems to be the best way of recording them.
Re:No I wasn't aware of this unethical practice (Score:5, Informative)
This the correct answer and any consumerist bloggers should pick up this story and INVESTIGATE properly to report their findings. (I do not advocate merely copying stories as it is both immoral and pretty dangerous if it turns out you are reporting incorrect information as is increasingly the case where people use Wikipedia as an authoritative source for information, for example.) Each and every one of these cases need to be brought to light so that either the company capitulates under the burden of public knowledge or the knowledge of the public makes them better consumers and can better avoid such vendors and their practices.
Re:No I wasn't aware of this unethical practice (Score:5, Insightful)
as is increasingly the case where people use Wikipedia as an authoritative source for information, for example.
Yeah that's right, an article with references couldn't possibly be trusted if it's on Wikipedia, but we'll trust everything from the media, blogs, and random commenters on a forum without question...
Re:No I wasn't aware of this unethical practice (Score:5, Interesting)
I was. I had to fix one of their overheating, POS DVR/WMC's for a customer and it turned out it was under someone else's name from the beginning of the ordering process. It was very lengthy, and very difficult to figure out the original purchaser and their information. Until we had it, they would NOT honor warranty (even though they were perfectly capable of checking the serial number) or even quote prices for parts or labor.
Never again.
Re:No I wasn't aware of this unethical practice (Score:5, Insightful)
I bought a refurb alienware laptop several years ago from a 3rd party. It worked ok, but one of the keys would stick. They wouldn't sell me a new keyboard, because I wasn't a direct customer, even though it had the Alienware markings all over it. I found who the real manufacturer was of the chassis, and they said I have to talk to the retail outlet (Alienware). I tried to go through the 3rd party, who sold a lot of refurb Alienware stuff, and they couldn't get a new keyboard.
Alienware said I could use a USB keyboard instead. Ummm, this was a laptop, that I carried for work. I didn't want to carry a keyboard too, just so I could use my laptop.
I also tried to get the second drive carrier, which turned out to be almost the same as the story said. It would have taken an act of god, and a virgin sacrifice to even hope to get one.
In the end, I suffered with the bad keyboard for quite a while. Finally on one work trip, it overheated and died. The hotel's A/C was broken, and I had to work in the middle of the night (with it 90+ degrees in the room).
I weighed my options. I had this really neat looking laptop that I couldn't do anything with, or try to beg Alienware to fix it (good luck there). I was out of country, and the exchange rate was great then, so I bought a new PC and LCD monitor, and worked from the hotel for a month like that. I went home for a week before the next 1 month job at the same site, and bought a HP laptop. Actually a HP Pavilion zv6000. That was about 3 years or so ago. I'm still using the HP, and I've put it through more abuse than the Alienware ever saw. So far it's been to 3 countries, and more US cities than I can even begin to count. I even did a live stream with a Verizon air card, 2 USB cameras, and a GPS receiver, for the length of I-10 (California to Florida) in the middle of summer. Come on, hot car, long drive, laptop sliding in the passenger seat. It never hit the floor, which was good. I left it running on my porch in Florida for 6 months straight, so I had a terminal to read my mail on, and it never failed, regardless of humidity, heat, or anything. My only complaint since then? The HP draws a lot of power, and I popped the fuse in my power inverter.
I've bought a few replacement parts for the HP, more out of want than need. I need part of the case now, because my laptop bag fell off a luggage cart, and cracked some plastic. That was easily found on eBay for about $30.
For those making car analogies and saying "the ownership should have been transferred, blah, blah", I work on other people's cars as a hobby. I've bought all kinds of parts, and never have I been asked to prove that the car was "mine", or that I was an authorized repair person. I walk into the store or even dealership and say "I need part .... for a ....", and they had it to me. The ONLY part that's ever required any sort of proof was a factory reproduced key for a lost key, so the owner has to go with registration in hand to get it. That hasn't stopped me from buying replacement ignition and door locks with new keys. I could steal your car, buy new locks, and it would be mine (without legit plates, obviously). I've even had my car towed, without any proof that it was mine. My word of "It won't start, tow it to here please" and a cash payment has always been enough. Maybe that's because I'm a fine upstanding appearing citizen, but those who know me know better. :) No, I wouldn't steal a car, but still.. A $40,000+ car is worth a hell of a lot more than anything Alienware has to offer.
It's a laptop (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you have money to burn or zero skill at assembling a PC yourself, I recommend putting together your own machine.
How does one just put together a laptop? Last time I checked, laptop motherboards and cases hadn't been standardized to that point.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Any so-called similar systems built from barebones notebooks you make are only similar in the sense of their specs maybe. Much more so than for desktops though, for laptops, things like build quality of the PC as a cohesive whole matters. Also, instead of having one stop for warranty matters, suddenly you now have to deal with each of your component makers. Same situation as for desktops, except that notebooks that are by nature portable break 100x more than desktops.
Any ordinary geek can put together a
Re:It's a laptop (Score:4, Informative)
While I've built a dozen desktops for other people, I've been using laptops for myself (though I'll finally be building myself a desktop next month). I've always wanted to build my own laptop, assuming it's financially viable and logistically doable...
Can anyone provide any resources (websites, articles, etc etc) for building your own laptop, instead of saying it's "easily assembled by anyone who knows anything about the inside of a notebook"? I'm quite familiar with the insides of notebooks, having disassembled a few, but that doesn't help me figure out where to buy retail parts...
Re:Alienware are overpriced anyway (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a pro, and have built systems for.... well, longer than the lifespan of many newer Slashdot readers. Unless you like breaking equipment, wasting money, and climbing up a very steep learning curve, I recommend you buy a modest machine and spend your time instead on learning programming. The hard-won lessons of how to gracefully install or replace a heatsnk without getting silver heat sink paste into your memory slots, and to always buy a bag of those thumbscrews, what order the memory modules need to be installed, how to bundle your cabling and keep the airflow clear, how to get hard drives mounted given the knuckle-biting layout of screwing in some disk drives, etc., are a _complete_ waste of useful time for many people.
Alienware is, admittedly, pretty silly. Buy a refurbished Dell machine at their outlet or on Ebay, and spend your money on upgrades when you need them.
Re:Alienware are overpriced anyway (Score:5, Funny)
You act like all of that stuff is difficult, you must work for Geek Squad?
Re:Alienware are overpriced anyway (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know... I can build a new system in 30min tops if I have the components on my bench and they all are OK. I take probably more to have them ready for production. Depending on the destination I stress test them for at least 24h. After that clean install, clone and be on your way.
And I would advice every one to do this. I enjoy building my computers from parts. It takes me more to chose the right components than to build them.
Take it like a puzzle and enjoy it. And don't worry even if you brake something you are still paying less than buying a DELL.
I see this trend on slashdot and I can't understand it. People saying if you make more then xx$/h you should buy that and don't bother to do it yourself. I would say to you... damn you sleep probably around 8h/day think about all that wasted money.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Other than that, welcome back; we missed you.
Re:Simple Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Or smart enough** to understand economies of scale.
** i.e., smarter than yourself, apparently.
Re:Um, so? (Score:5, Informative)
No - if their concern is valid, you tell them where you bought the computer, provide serial numbers and so forth, they take any number of actions, including:
1. Working with law enforcement - if the thing was stolen, you're either out or you have a civil case against the thief.
2. Transfer the record to you
You're right to look at the social side of the issue - but go a step further - technology can solve this particular problem.