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MPAA Says Teachers Should Camcord For Fair Use

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the bend-over-backwards-and-insert-here dept.

Education 286

unlametheweak recommends an Ars Technica piece detailing the convoluted lengths to which the MPAA will go in order to keep anybody from ripping a DVD, ever. The organization showed a film to the US Copyright Office, in the triennial hearing to spell out exemptions to the DMCA, giving instructions for how a teacher could use a camcorder to record a low-quality clip of a DVD for educational use — even though such a purpose is solidly established in law as fair use. "Never mind that this solution results in video of questionable quality and requires teachers to learn even more tech in order to get the job done. It also requires schools (or, given the way most schools are run, the teachers themselves) to incur additional costs to purchase camcorders and videotapes if they don't have them already. Add in the extra time involved, and this 'solution' is a laughably convoluted alternative to simply ripping a clip from a DVD."

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Camcorder? Yeah right. (5, Funny)

eggman9713 (714915) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893515)

Nah, can't do that, teacher might use the camcorder to videotape students in the locker room.

Re:Camcorder? Yeah right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27893877)

you need to get modded down.

Re:Camcorder? Yeah right. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27893927)

You need to get modded left.

Re:Camcorder? Yeah right. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27893941)

You need to not get modded.

Re:Camcorder? Yeah right. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27894087)

Why did that get modded?

well that explains it... (5, Funny)

grapeape (137008) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893535)

Now I know what that guy was doing behind me while I was watching Star Trek yesterday. He was just making a clip for fair use.

Re:well that explains it... (5, Interesting)

BobSixtyFour (967533) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893561)

I wish I had an awesome teacher like that. Going into the movie theater in the name of education to capture a clip in the discussion about:

"the use of special effects in modern star trek movie VS the original movies."

That and a > 9000 word essay.

Re:well that explains it... (5, Informative)

WebScud (662900) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893689)

In a senior year class we actually used the leaked direct feed bootleg of Episode II to compare the CG to original trilogy and discuss the evolution of technology in film.

Actually that would be an awesome consequence (4, Interesting)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893965)

If only someone would propose a bill that would allow camcording in theaters for editorial use, pointing to the example the media companies gave as evidence for the necessity of the inclusion...

This just in: (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27893537)

According to the MPAA, it is a-okay to use a camcorder to record a movie!

Re:This just in: (3, Informative)

mysidia (191772) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893999)

As long as you own the DVD, and you're using only a short piss-poor-quality recording solely for classroom purposes.

Kind of like... (5, Funny)

NotQuiteReal (608241) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893559)

requiring you to defend yourself from a wild boar with a knife, even if you have a gun, just because it is not legal to have a gun where you live. (Even if you don't happen to have a knife.)

BTW, like the MPAA, wild boars are vicious.

Photocopying (4, Funny)

basementman (1475159) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893601)

Given the technology skills most my teachers have had I can see them trying to put the dvd inside a photocopier and hoping for the best. Your average teacher couldn't rip a DVD, and why bother when you can just get any notable clip you want off youtube. Go fight with Google MPAA.

Re:Photocopying (3, Informative)

lostguru (987112) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893911)

Putting aside the fact that almost every teacher I have or have had in highschool with the exception of a few have been able to rip video clips off dvds, and the ones who couldn't would simply have student who was bright enough do it for them. Most schools/districts these days block youtube as well as facebook, myspace, etc, for reasons unknown as it seems to only serve the purpose of annoying teachers and students. Wonderful fun, our district also chooses to block many useful linux/programming sites as they could be used for hacking. SSH tunnels work for bypassing, but only if you're smart enough to get one set up.

Re:Photocopying (0, Offtopic)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894149)

I don't mean to be rude, but SSH tunnels and proxies are not that hard to handle, once you know that the tools exist.

I think the harder part is having a good server to use them on... but even then there are things you can use.

That's the problem. The information to bypass these blocks isn't hard to grasp - it's hard to find.

In an effort to help this, my solution:

SSH out to home or a free shell account. Tunnel the ports as needed. Use tinyproxy on the remote end, and set your browser to use this proxy through the tunnel.

Re:Photocopying (1)

lostguru (987112) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894177)

Yes it's extremely simple, but most of the school is more worried about their social life or SATs scores to really be looking for the information

Re:Photocopying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27894213)

Sheesh you go through a lot of work. ssh -D and I have an instant socks proxy. Works in putty as well

Re:Photocopying (4, Insightful)

honkycat (249849) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893969)

People will always be able to rip DVDs. It doesn't matter if the law allows the circumvention or not, it's a cracked technology.

However, if the law DOES allow it, that opens the door for legitimate businesses to manufacture and sell tools to make it easy for educators to copy clips. That's one of the reasons why it's so important that it be legal.

Re:Photocopying (1)

mysidia (191772) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894009)

Before the MPAA screwed it up, there was free easy-to-use point-and-click software readily available.

For starters (5, Interesting)

DarkNinja75 (990459) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893609)

It might help if we didn't call it "ripping."

Re:For starters (2, Interesting)

siddesu (698447) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893963)

why? mafiaa was fighting it when it was called "time-shifting", etc.

you should recognize what you see -- this is mafiaa fighting against fair use, because to them there is no such thing.

Re:For starters (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27894045)

It's not so much that the MPAA would allow it if the name was different, but that it would probably improve public perception

"ripping", the word is visceral, "copy" is not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27894029)

Just like Pirate or Hacking or 'Assault' in Assault Weapon, also a media darling.
The hard consonants of the word give it a ... 'jena se qua' quality.
Similarly, note 'Poo' vs 'Shit' or 'Pussy' vs 'Cunt'.

You can't tell me that the notoriety of Jack the Ripper isn't in some part due to his name.

not surprised. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27893611)

only in america...

Re:not surprised. (1)

Trigun (685027) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893751)

Not if the MPAA has its way.

Re:not surprised. (1)

unlametheweak (1102159) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893829)

only in america...

The MPAA is in just about every country in the world. It merely gives itself different names. I.e., in Canada the MPAA calls itself the CMPDA (Canadian Motion Picture Distributors Association).

It is the Canadian counterpart of the MPAA with effectively identical membership and a derivative logo.

- Ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMPDA [wikipedia.org]

The MPAA is as widespread around the world as the Swine Flu.

Re:not surprised. (1)

dougisfunny (1200171) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893893)

I didn't think the swine flu was spread that widely.

Re:not surprised. (3, Funny)

Aerynvala (1109505) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893921)

Or costs quite as much to get rid of.

Ripping a DVD (1, Redundant)

moon3 (1530265) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893623)

to keep anybody from ripping a DVD

Strong naming could easily upset (EliteTorrents or PirateBay can confess).

DVD backup could have been less of a target.

to keep anybody from creating backup of a DVD

Pretty decent and disarming.

Re:Ripping a DVD (4, Insightful)

roesti (531884) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893813)

Of course, you could just describe it as "to increase the cost of a teacher playing a DVD in a classroom for legally-permitted educational purposes" and get straight to the point...

Re:Ripping a DVD (4, Informative)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893951)

Strictly speaking, at least in the US, there is a significant difference between a "rip" and a "backup". By "rip" it is almost always meant a video file produced by breaking CSS and re-encoding the contents of the DVD. That would fall foul of the DMCA(which sucks; but it is pretty clear).

A "backup" would just be a copy, bit-for-bit of the DVD, which the MPAA and friends obviously don't want you to make, and you would probably get in trouble for distributing; but in no way violates the DMCA. (incidentally, this part is why DVD piracy started well before CSS was broken. Since anybody with a DVD player can decode CSS crippled disks, a pirate simply has to clone the disk, not break the crypto)

Re:Ripping a DVD (2, Insightful)

unlametheweak (1102159) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894035)

Strictly speaking, at least in the US, there is a significant difference between a "rip" and a "backup".

I don't think so. Even Microsoft's Windows Media Player has a large "Rip" button in the middle of its menu, right beside the "Backup" button. "Rip" is to extract audio and/or video (to a hard drive). "Backup" is to burn it. I checked the Wikipedia also, which seems to agree with me.

Re:Ripping a DVD (1)

supernova_hq (1014429) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894121)

No, "backup" is to create a second copy for use in case the original is altered or destroyed. You can easily make a backup to your hard drive as a DVD image and that is still a backup. The parent's description is still accurate.

Re:Ripping a DVD (1)

unlametheweak (1102159) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894181)

No, "backup" is to create a second copy for use in case the original is altered or destroyed.

You aren't making sense here (where you say "no") because you are obviously agreeing with me when you state that

"backup" is to create a second copy for use in case the original is altered or destroyed.

To elaborate I will give a quote from the Microsoft help file of Windows Media Player 11:

You can rip (or copy) tracks from your audio CDs onto your computer with Windows Media Player, after which the songs that you rip become files on your computer.

And from Wikipedia (the American version):

Ripping is the process of copying audio or video content to a hard disk, typically from removable media or media streams. Originally, the term is an acronym for "Raster Image Processing"[citation needed] and referred specifically to image scanning. The word is now used to refer to all forms of media.

- Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripping [wikipedia.org]

In no way does Microsoft break the DMCA as the original posters' definition of the word "rip" would have people believe.

Re:Ripping a DVD (4, Informative)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894119)

A "backup" would just be a copy, bit-for-bit of the DVD, which the MPAA and friends obviously don't want you to make, and you would probably get in trouble for distributing; but in no way violates the DMCA. (incidentally, this part is why DVD piracy started well before CSS was broken. Since anybody with a DVD player can decode CSS crippled disks, a pirate simply has to clone the disk, not break the crypto)

Except that currently available DVD burners don't burn the part of the disk where the keys are stored, so the (encrypted) backup won't play in a DVD player.

Re:Ripping a DVD (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894159)

Is this true? I've just stripped the CSS as a matter of course when making my backups. I also strip out PUOs and all that other bullshit too. Can't say I've ever tried to make a straight copy.

Re:Ripping a DVD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27894209)

I was under the impression that the decrypt was in some way coupled with the volume serial number, and some other special magic to make a bit-for-bit dupe impossible. EG, you cant just drop a DVD into a system with a burner and a reader, and do the 'Copy disk' process. You HAVE to strip the CSS, then re-encode the CSS for the new volume, or that has been my experience. (Assuming you even WANT CSS...)

I could just be blowing smoke though. I just know you cant just disk to disk a DVD. The resulting disk wont play.

Re:Ripping a DVD (1)

kimvette (919543) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894227)

That would fall foul of the DMCA(which sucks; but it is pretty clear).

Bypassing encryption/protection/DRM for the purpose of interoperability is perfectly legal. In this case, the interoperability required is backup software for the fair use copy. Ergo, interoperability issue. :-D

The MPAA went on to say that (5, Funny)

SirLurksAlot (1169039) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893625)

Teachers may also make partial copies of a CD for education purposes by recording to a vinyl record and playing it back on a phonograph.

Re:The MPAA went on to say that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27893763)

That video was great! I think I'm going to watch all movies from a conference room tape of a tape of a DVD from now on.

Re:The MPAA went on to say that (0, Offtopic)

Plazmid (1132467) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893789)

Well at one point someone devised a way to store video on phonograph discs so...

Re:The MPAA went on to say that (5, Insightful)

unlametheweak (1102159) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893949)

Teachers may also make partial copies of a CD for education purposes by recording to a vinyl record and playing it back on a phonograph.

It appears that part of the rationale behind the MPAA doing this is:
1) To keep any copies (copied fair-use clips, no less) of marginal quality so as to increase the (theoretical) value of an actual DVD. Dubious logic here, if that is part of the reasoning. If that were the case they could more logically argue to keep low quality copies (in general) of MPAA IP legal for educational purposes, no matter how it is derived (from ripping software or through cam-cording).
2) Try and prevent the spread of DVD-circumvention devices. Dubious logic again since it would probably be more efficient to by an extra DVD (or use the original if possible) and just bookmark the appropriate scenes for classroom viewing rather than to buy blank tape and maintain video equipment. Of course you can't un-invent DeCSS, nor can the MPAA go back in time and assassinate DVD Jon or people like him, so trying to stop DVD copying is fruitless and will only punish people and hinder schools, etc from making back-ups, fair-use clips, etc. The logic here is as senseless as the people who want to fight the War on Drugs.
3) They've already argued against cam-cording in non-educational settings (like movie-theaters), so it seems like they just have too much time and money on there hands and just want to be difficult. These are people who have power, and want to get as much out of it as they can. They seem to be enjoying themselves. My two cents here.

Re:The MPAA went on to say that (1)

mysidia (191772) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894019)

No, vinyl is too high-quality. They have to use cassette tapes.

Re:The MPAA went on to say that (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894271)

Ahem. You seem to have that bass-ackwards. Top quality cassette tape is superior to top quality vinyl - AND much cheaper. Vinyl is played back with one single needle, while a good cassette recorder/player has multiple heads. Even my ancient reel-to-reel had multiple heads. (5 I think, maybe 7 - but I'm not digging it out just to check) Perhaps you meant to compare vinyl to 8-track. Those 8-tracks were a pile of pig shit, which is why I never owned one.

In related news (5, Funny)

InsertWittyNameHere (1438813) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893637)

ThePirateBay.org registers the domain TheTeacherBay.org

Ewwwww WTF? (1)

jdong (1378773) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893665)

I know the MPAA is evil but sheesh, even for them, asking teachers to make dirty movies of themselves is a step too far!


*goes to read the summary*

MPAA Graciousness and Generosity (4, Funny)

eyepeepackets (33477) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893679)

One would expect the MPAA to suggest teachers use pantomime since this would please both themselves and the RIAA.

Re:MPAA Graciousness and Generosity (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27894397)

The American Mime Association has been notified of your suggestion and is considering legal action.

I must take the MPAAs side on this issue (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893683)

If only so that I may attempt to show other possible logical and reasonable perspectives on the matter.


Uh... got nothing...

Good! (4, Insightful)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893691)

I'm glad for ridiculous crap like this, because the more groups that end up on the target list of the MAFIAA's tactics, the sooner something will be done to redress the abuses of our society and our freedoms they have perpetuated in the name of copyright.

People apparently have to feel the heat themselves in order to see the wrong in the MAFIAA's ways.

Not any time soon (3, Interesting)

siloko (1133863) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894255)

Haven't we been saying this for, like, ten years. The fact that an increasing number of consumers are becoming aware of said tactics doesn't seem to have:

a) impacted on those tactics [google.com]

b) changed legislative backing [cnet.com] for the MPAA

c) reduced political complicity in the whole sorry affair [arstechnica.com]

Sure it will change eventually, but soon?

Re:Good! (1)

edmazur (958154) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894333)

People apparently have to feel the heat themselves in order to see the wrong in the MAFIAA's ways.

People apparently have to feel the heat themselves in order to see the wrong in the (insert group) ways.

Re:Good! (2, Funny)

houghi (78078) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894359)

I doubt something will be done anytime soon.

OTOH I do not see why teachers would be an exception. They should teaching us stuff, including what is right and what is wrong. Where did I do my first copyright violations? Yep, many many years before the Internet was available. I did it by making copies of books.

Not only did I do that, my teacher told me to do so. Even then I knew something wrong was going on, as the first copy I was sure to make was the copyright notice. I thought it was pretty ironic. I also thought that it was allowed, because my teacher told me to do so.

So if making copies is legal, what is all the fuzz about? In my mind if I do not make money of it by selling the copies, it s OK. (Luckily my government things about the same).

So the teachers taught me wrong and as everybody knows, making copies is a stepping stone thing. One day you make a copy of your CD so it won't scratch and before you know it, you sell crack to kids to finance the terrorists.

It doesn't matter what the MPAA says (4, Insightful)

pwizard2 (920421) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893735)

Talk is cheap. How are they going to back it up? It's not like they can walk onto school grounds and force teachers to abide by this arbitrary policy that has no legal weight whatsoever.

Re:It doesn't matter what the MPAA says (5, Insightful)

pwizard2 (920421) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893779)

Sorry about double-posting, but I just remembered something else: how would the teacher's union react to this? I'm not very fond of unions, but this time it would be a good thing to have on our side. The teachers union holds quite a bit of clout in government and they probably wouldn't put up with BS like this. Their argument would probably be something along the lines of that teachers are [rightfully] too busy to waste their time recording movies with a camcorder just to please the movie industry. The MPAA would probably back down even if they got their way and then had to take on the unions.

Re:It doesn't matter what the MPAA says (1)

R.Morton (1540993) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893913)

I Agree completely, in fact I can remember Instances in School were a lot of classes Social studies, Science mainly had a video taped shows that the teacher had recorded earlier in the week.

in fact on the screen it clearly said that it was okay to tape the program for educational or institutional use only and had to be erase by no later than one year after it's original recorded date.

and that was around 1984 or so when I was in Grade School in Nashville TN (Davidson County) at John.R.Bass Elementary School.

What the hell Happened to that ?.

man I have seen low but that is low MPAA can burn in hell they are taking away a great tool, I can't count how many times I was Happy to see we had a film on ancient cultures because like the History Channel they make it interesting.

students are more likely to learn when they are stimulated with an interesting televised presentation rather than a boring 23 pages of dry text.

R.Morton
 

Re:It doesn't matter what the MPAA says (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27893955)

I Agree completely, in fact I can remember Instances in School were a lot of classes Social studies, Science . . .

I see in fact can Remember no English clases.

Re:It doesn't matter what the MPAA says (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27894299)

Wait, wut? They have schools in Nashville? They had them way back in 1984? Is this revisionist history at work, or what?

Re:It doesn't matter what the MPAA says (4, Insightful)

techno-vampire (666512) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893953)

Actually, I suspect that their argument would be far simpler: current American copyright law contains a specific exemption for limited copying for educational purposes. The MPAA can complain all it wants, but the law is on our side.

Re:It doesn't matter what the MPAA says (3, Insightful)

supernova_hq (1014429) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894131)

For now...

Re:It doesn't matter what the MPAA says (5, Insightful)

twidarkling (1537077) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894197)

Actually, it's the DMCA that's the issue, not Fair Use.

Re:It doesn't matter what the MPAA says (1)

Chaos Incarnate (772793) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894273)

Copyright law gives an exemption for copying. But the DMCA has no parallel exemption, so it's not legal to decrypt the content in order to create the copy.

Re:It doesn't matter what the MPAA says (1)

techno-vampire (666512) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894393)

Interesting. I wonder what will happen when a case comes up revolving around the conflict between the two laws.

Empirical Test (1, Insightful)

drmofe (523606) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893747)

Experiment: Take a random sample of teachers. Equip half with camcorders, a DVD, DVD player and TV. (For completeness, include a group that can take a feed from the DVD player directly to the camcorder). Equip the other half with a PC, DVD ripping software, a DVD and DVD player.

Measure the time taken to extract a clip from the specific DVD and the quality achieved by each group. Compare results.

Hypothesis: Quality obtained by first group will be acceptable and is a lower-tech solution than that needed by second group

Re:Empirical Test (2, Insightful)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893771)

Teachers also have students in their classroom.

"10 points extra credit to whoever helps me clip this section of this movie off this DVD."

Can guarentee in any school where teachers are actually concerned about pulling clips off a DVD at least 5 students will know how to do that right then and there.

Camcorder method requires setting up the camcorder, TV or projector, lighting, you'll likely need to do this in a spare room or after hours. Then you have to edit it in to whatever the teacher wanted to use it for.

Acceptable or not, it's a large number of hoops for something that, if you're allowed to copy off the DVD, can otherwise be done in 10 minutes.

Re:Empirical Test (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894309)

Don't forget to add in the extra MONETARY COST of owning and maintaining all the extra equipment necessary for doing things the mafiaa approved way. Our school disctrict alone might spend $10,000 annually to keep this obsolete equipment around, pointlessly. It costs just about $0.00 to just rip content on a ten year old computer.

Re:Empirical Test (1)

DMalic (1118167) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893831)

I had to re-read your hypothesis. It didn't sync up with the test you included. The camcorders being used to tape presentations in my classes fail pretty hard. They also look like they cost craploads of money; it's just that the resulting quality is bad. Ripping a DVD is SIGNIFICANTLY easier than messing with a camcorder setup.

Ridiculous, but somewhat scary. . . (5, Informative)

MistaE (776169) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893767)

I was one of the few people that had the pleasure (or the displeasure) of being at the Library of Congress DMCA hearing room when the MPAA made this ridiculous argument. Suffice to say, I was completely shocked, flabbergasted, and just plain insulted that educators would truly be expected to do something like this in their bizarro world. Nevermind the fact that you would need an HDTV, HD Camcorder, Tripod, good lighting, and tons of time on your hands to manually create compilation clips with your camcorder (as if educators had any free time as it is).

I couldn't tell if the Copyright bigwigs that heard the argument were actually taking it seriously, but I sincerely hope that any appearance of sincerity was simply there for the sake of keeping respect for the hearings.

The one thing that I learned at the hearing was that you have to be fucking crazy in order to be a lawyer on their side. Even I (a soon to be unemployed law school graduate) didn't think that I could make this argument with a straight face even for tons of money.

Re:Ridiculous, but somewhat scary. . . (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27893839)

Even I (a soon to be unemployed law school graduate) didn't think that I could make this argument with a straight face even for tons of money.

Don't worry, you'll learn.

Re:Ridiculous, but somewhat scary. . . (1)

GF678 (1453005) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894239)

Even I (a soon to be unemployed law school graduate) didn't think that I could make this argument with a straight face even for tons of money.

Some people are great lawyers for a reason - they can distance themselves from logic and common sense and still present a case, so long as the price is right. Having said that, I'm not I'd want to have anything to do with them on a personal basis, as I feel their humanity would have been sucked out by the profession.

How much longer? (4, Interesting)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893787)

How much longer before the MPAA becomes irrelevant and we can just ignore their antics?

Re:How much longer? (2, Insightful)

mundanetechnomancer (1343739) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894007)

actually, in spite of their best (or worst) efforts, most people already do

At least four more years, obviously. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27894027)

They own Biden, and their friends run the DoJ. See "change and hope".

Videotapes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27893795)

Videotapes? What's that?

Re:Videotapes (1)

he-sk (103163) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893915)

Exactly. MPAA, you might want to finally join the rest of us in the 21st century. Don't be afraid, we're having lot's of fun!

Teachers are tech idiots (1)

docmur (813683) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893799)

I actually like this post, it makes a good point. Teachers are very on the bottom side of the Texh world. I had teachers in Elementary school that couldn't even use Windows. Come on, how hard is that. I think there should be a bare reqreset for teachers to be at least mid level skilled with tech.

As for the stupid video laws, so what. Teachers should be allowed to show what ever they want to students. Infact students aren't shown enough in class rooms. In one case you go to a Catholic School and your told that every thing else is wrong and horrible to consider such as evolution, or you go to public school and you get a mis represented view on religon.

Here's the solution. Teachers should be allowed to show what ever they want, but they have to be fair on what they show. I got a horrible over view of what Religon is, infact I was told every other Religon was wrong. Of course this is BS. I was also taught facts about tech that were clearly false, for instace I was told how to use a computer and they teachers couldn't even use Windows.

Here's a new idea, lets get properly trained Teachers in the class room and make sure there fully trained in a proper overview in many areas, not what they think is proper overview. I think we seriously need to get better teachers. As for the DVD stuff, come on, Just use a tuner card, rip the video with some sort of Linux software, compress in the data etc... Do all the work required, Get the students to run the video or show it publicly, teach them how your doing it and then whats the harm.

Teachers should be able to show what they want, they should have to use the proper technology to acheive it but non the less free viewing. They should also be trained to teach students better

Thanks
Docmur

I can't wait (5, Funny)

Moleculo (1321509) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893833)

until Star.Trek.(2009).Mr.BeRNaRD.3rdPeRIod.SoCiALSTudiES.avi hits the scene.

Re:I can't wait (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894193)

Blasphemer [scienceblogs.com]

Re:I can't wait (1)

perryizgr8 (1370173) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894265)

what's up with the crazy caps lock?

Re:I can't wait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27894275)

As ridiculous as the above sounds, I have actually watched pirated movies in class for both educational and non-educational purposes. Having a communist teacher does have its advantages :)

Wait, what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27893845)

Can't they just as well play the DVD???

Yet more proof that the MPAA is just greedy asses (1)

Werthless5 (1116649) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893863)

Seriously, this is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. If anyone really needed proof that the MPAA doesn't care about consumers in any way, look no further.

Re:Yet more proof that the MPAA is just greedy ass (1)

unlametheweak (1102159) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894307)

Seriously, this is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. If anyone really needed proof that the MPAA doesn't care about consumers in any way, look no further.

If the MPAA didn't care about consumers then they wouldn't have given us Borat [wikipedia.org] or Charlies Angels [wikipedia.org] or Super Fly [wikipedia.org] or Reefer Madness [wikipedia.org] . Clearly, the MPAA just wants to protect the cultural IP of the United States from being exploited by criminals and teachers.

i just got off the toilet (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27893871)

i shit out an obama.

plop!

Leave the teachers out of what is already stupid (2, Insightful)

get_your_guns (1380583) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893873)

I am more than willing to support smarter teachers in the classroom, including paying higher taxes for higher pay for these teachers. Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?! Maybe if the MPAA had smarter teachers in the classroom when they were in school they would never try to pull fast ones like this to the Copyright office in the first place!

I don't have a extensive understanding (1)

Demonantis (1340557) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893889)

I know that its legitimate in Russia to break copy protection to make a backup as allowed under their law. I don't think that is allowed in the states because it would be effectively attacking the DRM scheme. That makes it kinda silly then to have fair use and not allow people to use that right. Points to how poorly crafted the DMCA really is.

The VHS... (1)

Ridgecity (1511569) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893895)

The movie industry's NEMESIS, is now their best friend.

Let me get this straight... (1)

CSMatt (1175471) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893901)

The submitter just gave us a link to a recording of a recording?

Even So (1)

Data Man Version Two (1422311) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893907)

And that guy is using VLC, one of the best rip-a-DVD-as-you-play-it video players/transcoders

MPAA, RIAA.... (1)

Roskolnikov (68772) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893983)

What do these folks have against education?
First they go after the students, now, they go after the teachers?

This brings up another point that someone further up mentioned as a joke, I've always thought that using a camcorder to record a movie would be and/or should be fair use, Its obviously an inferior copy (even the best shaky cams have some serious problems, mostly they point out just how $h!tty the theatre experience is, people get up, down, coughing, talking, etc); when it comes down to it I suspect the only way we will be rid of these folks is if we just stop buying movies and CD's which, I find somewhat ironic.

Or, better yet (4, Insightful)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 5 years ago | (#27893987)

Teachers could carve each frame into a clay tablet and let it dry in the sun. Then mount the clay tablets on big wooden wheel and spin it real fast.

Time to put an end to chucklehead organizations like the MPAA, BSA and RIAA. Companies are trying to be heavy-handed with their customers while letting some vaporous organization take the heat for their dickish behavior. Implement joint and several liability on the member companies for the actions of their enforcement organizations and this silly business will end overnight.

Another argument for downloading (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894013)

The problem with most copyright arguments is that it tends to support downloading. If one is going to use the analog hole to break copyright, them one might as well download a copy from the internet. This accomplishing the same thing, that is make a fair use copy of the video without breaking the copy protection.

Realistically, given the increasing free market bias of the developed world, combined with the relaxed view of copyright in the developing world, companies either have to supply content in a user friendly form, or have someone else do it. There is a great deal of money spent to build demand for these things. The problem is that there the value placed on he product by the producers is often much more than the value to the consumer, especially when the producers wishes to place arbitrary restrictions on use.

i just got off the toilet (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27894033)

i shit out an obama.

plop!!

Ha (3, Funny)

rpillala (583965) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894057)

If NEA is as powerful as many around here think it is, the recording industry is going down.

Simpler solution (1)

Dracil (732975) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894059)

The MPAA is required to furnish free DVDs to educators within a reasonable time frame (less than a week is good) on request.

Scrap the whole thing, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27894107)

the teachers should just get a license to use a copy of the DVD's script, which they may paraphrase and describe to the class aloud.

I don't know if this relates... (4, Informative)

earlymon (1116185) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894327)

If you watch the History channels very, very early in the morning, you'll find that they run a show with less/no commercials to make room before the top of the hour. During that time, they have a History Classroom or something show (seriously - that's not my best time of day, so I apologize for inaccuracies).

One thing I noticed - there's a screen that gives instructions to teachers that they have to delete any video recordings they've made of the show after a certain date - I recall, sleepily - that it's within a year or something.

Now - how does history go stale in a year?

I did a lot of digging to find the food chain on this one... History is the Classroom ties into Cable in the Classroom. Here's what they have to say:

http://www.history.com/global/feedback/faq.jsp?NetwCode=THC&level_1=nodes_54224&level_2=nodes_54240&level_3=nodes_54297&x=35&y=11 [history.com]
http://www.ciconline.org/faq#Copyright [ciconline.org]
http://www.ciconline.org/copyright [ciconline.org]
http://www.education-world.com/a_curr/curr280.shtml [education-world.com]

Now, color me naive - but that's the beginning of the foodchain for a teacher to BEGIN to simply videotape something related to history of educational value to show to their students. I quote - and I am not making this up:

What's an educator to do? Read Education World's five-part series on copyright, fair use, and new technologies, that's what! We did the work so you wouldn't have to!
http://www.education-world.com/a_curr/curr280a.shtml [education-world.com]
http://www.education-world.com/a_curr/curr280b.shtml [education-world.com]
http://www.education-world.com/a_curr/curr280c.shtml [education-world.com]
http://www.education-world.com/a_curr/curr280d.shtml [education-world.com]
http://www.education-world.com/a_curr/curr280e.shtml [education-world.com]

In an age where our test scores show we're failing, with teachers overburdened like never before - related to a show that a kid can just watch at home without encumbrances (should his/her parents **be there** for the kid with this kind of info) - note what the teacher has to go through.

As opposed to just taping it and working it into the lesson plan - because it comes from a place called the History Channel - tied to Cable in the Classroom - where "cable" is that thing usually subsidized by local communities as a near utility.

Thanks, copyright eagles. Thanks a lot.

DeCSS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27894357)

It's extremely amusing to see that they're using VLC to demonstrate their unreason.

The Problem I See Here (0, Redundant)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894365)

The problem I see here is that the Copyright Office may not see how absolutely stupid the MPAA's position on this actually is.

Why would I suppose that? Well consider, the MPAA is actually making this lame argument, and they're not doing it to intentionally lose the argument, so they must think they have a chance of winning their case.

This resolves to either:
The MPAA is incredibly stupid and is insulting the Copyright Office (not a good idea if you're the MPAA).
The Copyright Office really is this stupid.
Both the MPAA and the Copyright Office are incredibly stupid.

Heaven help us all!

The MPAA is right (4, Funny)

Legion303 (97901) | more than 5 years ago | (#27894385)

We can't have teachers ripping DVD-quality clips all willy-nilly. Why, if someone got ahold of enough teachers, he could put all their clips together and re-create the original movie! In digital DVD quality! You pirates will surely roast in hell for even considering it.

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