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Eidos Announces Thief 4

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the coming-out-of-stealth dept.

PC Games (Games) 102

An anonymous reader tips news that Eidos Montreal has confirmed recent speculation by announcing the development of a new Thief game. They've set up a website, but the project is still in its early stages, and details are scarce. In an interview with IncGamers, Eidos' Stéphane D'Astous said, "We're keeping our ear very close to the ground. As you may have noticed, we now have a forum up and running for Thief 4, and I said to my guys 'I really want to have a forum at the very early stages,' because I want people to have a medium with which they can express their wishes, their expectations, and what they would like and not like to happen with the next Thief. Obviously we've started work, but it's always very important for the developers to be close to the community. We're listening to these people because they are very hardcore fans, and we want to bring the Thief 4 franchise to a new level, so the challenges are huge!"

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102 comments

I'm old (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27918905)

I instantly though of the board game [skybuilders.com], now that I searched for it I realised it was called "Stop Thief" not "Thief"... but but... where am I?... Get off my lawn!

Thiaf? (2, Insightful)

RyanFenton (230700) | more than 4 years ago | (#27918923)

Thi4f? As in "Thiaf"? Doesn't seem like a good first impression.

Ryan Fenton

Re:Thiaf? (2, Insightful)

cjfs (1253208) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919013)

Thi4f? As in "Thiaf"? Doesn't seem like a good first impression.

Shh. They're just figuring out the replacing letters with numbers. Next comes the realization that the numbers are supposed to look something like the letters. That's followed by the realization that nobody does that anymore, except in mockery.

So we should be back to normal titles once they hit step three around 2020.

Re:Thiaf? (1)

Jimmy King (828214) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920189)

Reminds me of some boy band several years back called 5ive. I worked at Best Buy back when they released an album and had to look at that every day.

Re:Thiaf? (1)

Crazy_MYKL (721064) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920613)

Reminds me of some boy band several years back called 5ive. I worked at Best Buy back when they released an album and had to look at that every day.

5ive is doom metal, which is pretty far from boy band pop.

Re:Thiaf? (1)

ben0207 (845105) | more than 4 years ago | (#27923309)

There was a boy band in the UK (at least, maybe Europe) called 5ive.

Despite being a teenager during their popular spell, I cannot remember the slightest bit about any of their "music" though.

Swine flu? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27918933)

A news with only one day delay?Thats it im out of here this is not slashdot.

Re-make Thief 2 (4, Insightful)

the_raptor (652941) | more than 4 years ago | (#27918943)

All they have to do for huge success if make it nearly exactly like Thief 2. I loved Thief 3 but the lack of huge sprawling levels with many hidden passage ways really hurt the game.

As to the story I hope they make it a prequel or otherwise not have Garret as the main character. The whole Thief mythos was pretty much played out at the end of Thief 3 and a continuation would just feel tacked on (Thief 1 & 2 heavily explored the Pagans and the Hammerites, Thief 3 basically removed the Keepers).

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27919061)

All they have to do for huge success if make it nearly exactly like Thief 2. I loved Thief 3 but the lack of huge sprawling levels with many hidden passage ways really hurt the game.

As to the story I hope they make it a prequel or otherwise not have Garret as the main character. The whole Thief mythos was pretty much played out at the end of Thief 3 and a continuation would just feel tacked on (Thief 1 & 2 heavily explored the Pagans and the Hammerites, Thief 3 basically removed the Keepers).

They can go for another character and time period instead. Funnily I loved Thief3 more than its prequels due to the smaller levels. But it missed somehow the last lack on being a real Thief RPG, due to the locked city areas which were unlocked later. It would be neat to see a real Thief RPG, but I rather doubt that Eidos will make that risk to overhaul the gameplay that much!

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (1)

PhilHibbs (4537) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919249)

I don't know if it was Thief 2 or 3, but I got hold of a demo of one of them, and my friends and I spent about 4 hours trying to do the lockpicking stage and none of us could do it, so it became a drinks mat.

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (4, Funny)

pnuema (523776) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920831)

Then I humbly submit that you and your friends should stay away from the box with the blinking lights. Computers are probably too much for you.

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (1)

Randle_Revar (229304) | more than 4 years ago | (#27930561)

Lock picking in Thief is not that hard. You must have been doing something very wrong.

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (1)

PhilHibbs (4537) | more than 4 years ago | (#27934663)

Yes, I guess there's some "trick" to it, but no matter what we did with the mouse, it just seemed to jiggle around meaninglessly. After a whole afternoon taking turns and discussing it, we gave up. We're all gamers, fans of Doom, Quake, Half-Life, various RTSes, and one of the people there was a puzzle fanatic (interlocking loops, tangled strings, block dis-assembly etc.), but it just didn't click with us.

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (2, Interesting)

TitusC3v5 (608284) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920119)

As to the story I hope they make it a prequel or otherwise not have Garret as the main character. The whole Thief mythos was pretty much played out at the end of Thief 3 and a continuation would just feel tacked on (Thief 1 & 2 heavily explored the Pagans and the Hammerites, Thief 3 basically removed the Keepers).

The end of Thief3 paved the way for a sequel. Garret more or less came full circle, taking an apprentice in almost exactly the same was he himself was when he was a child. It has a lot of potential - personally, I'd like to see the new girl have more of an acrobatic lean with perhaps not quite Garret's godly skill at hiding in shadows (which is undoubtedly even more impressive now that he is essentially THE Keeper).

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (2, Interesting)

Hogwash McFly (678207) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920327)

Exactly. Thief 2 is my favourite of the series, and its gameplay mechanics are far superior to Deadly Shadows, except for maybe one or two improvements like the new lock-picking system which I believe should be kept for T4. The movement and body awareness in DS felt really sluggish, as though Garrett was stumbling through knee-high water. Blackjacking enemies, and the associated 'snap' to position the bodies was also a downside. Obviously the compromises made for the Xbox, e.g. the loading zones, were a huge disappointment.

I agree that Garrett's story arc has been completed, so a prequel with him as main character could be interesting, if you could fit a storyline between the beginning of his training and the start of The Dark Project. Failing that, a sequel focusing on his female apprentice could also work, and you could still have Garrett (and his awesome voice provided by Stephen Russell) involved in the storyline. A healthy mix of looting environments - city-based, mansions, churches, tombs etc. - as well as their associated enemy types is a must.

Ditch the climbing gloves and re-instate the rope arrows. Also get rid of the stupid loot glint, or make it an optional feature or part of a 'noob mode' that is off by default. The original method of using loot was far better, as well as highlighting frobbable objects (make them brighter, as opposed to giving them an atomic blue glow).

I won't keep my hopes up, I was somewhat burned by Deadly Shadows and I'm not expecting any miracles to occur this time round either.

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920559)

The whole Thief mythos was pretty much played out at the end of Thief 3 and a continuation would just feel tacked on (Thief 1 & 2 heavily explored the Pagans and the Hammerites, Thief 3 basically removed the Keepers).

There's yet another faction that Garrett can end: the Ancients. As silly as time travel might be, I'd like to see them in their prime, with their cities alive. Maybe Garrett's runes retain their own memory and he starts having walking-flashbacks or something. If the AI were good enough, a Thief version of Blue Shift could be interesting: you play Lord Bafford, and you score points for how long you keep the Thief at bay before he steals your latest prized treasure. Set your guard patrols, locks, traps, etc. There's also multiplayer potential (maybe Garrett is a "guildleader", and the thieves are nameless players sent to pull a heist).

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (1)

runst0p (1228624) | more than 4 years ago | (#27921729)

I was catching up on some of the TTLG forums earlier this year and I caught a thread discussing where Thief was going before Looking Glass went under.

Apparently, there was talk of making Thief 4 take place present day (under the impression that they had done enough with the steampunk fantasy genre). There was even some concept art done (sorry for no link) of a catburgler/hoodiewearing Garrett.

At first I scoffed at it, hipping it up for the youngins and console gamers, but then I started warming to the idea... guns instead of bows, possible magic/technology uses. It might be tricky, but Thief 1 and 2 were good enough that if they kept most of the original team, I'd give the idea a chance.

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (1)

The Archon V2.0 (782634) | more than 4 years ago | (#27923087)

Apparently, there was talk of making Thief 4 take place present day (under the impression that they had done enough with the steampunk fantasy genre). There was even some concept art done (sorry for no link) of a catburgler/hoodiewearing Garrett.

Alternately, he could be replaced with a gentleman thief wearing a trilby [escapistmagazine.com].

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (1)

ultranova (717540) | more than 4 years ago | (#27922721)

I wish they'd have Garret again but make him more powerful. Sure, you can still have sneaking as an option - except for boss fights, of course - but there really should be a lot more action. Sometimes there could be reaction test, like when a guard draws a deep breath and a button blinks on the screen for a split-second, and if you push it on time Garret will throw a knife into the guards throat before he can scream.

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (2, Interesting)

Hythlodaeus (411441) | more than 4 years ago | (#27923235)

Thief 3 was the best of the series for me. Why? Because of the free-roaming segments between missions. For the first time, you could actually go where you chose to go when you chose to go there.

Re:Re-make Thief 2 (1)

retchdog (1319261) | more than 4 years ago | (#27927465)

And do the same thing, again and again, for a couple GP each time... It just annoyed me, although it did show how tedious the "career" of thieving would really be I guess.

If they want inspiration (5, Insightful)

RsG (809189) | more than 4 years ago | (#27918963)

Look to Thief 2. 3 was something of a letdown; 1 was still a new idea (and therefor somewhat unrefined). 2 was easily the zenith of the series to date.

What was missing from 3? Large open levels, multiple solutions to each problem, and the varied mission objectives. Thief 3 at least got the sneak, stab and sap aspect of the game right, to its credit, and they included the requisite gadgets and arrows. As long as these things remain for 4, the game will be, at a minimum, adequate; done right it can be something more.

One of the things all three games got right was story. Atmosphere, character, plot and background are the series strong points, so they need a decent writer on staff (one familiar with the previous games). For the best of the series atmosphere, look to the Shaleridge Cradle section in Thief 3.

Final detail. Garret, whatever else he is, is one of the game's selling points. There is something to be said for a cynical misanthropic kleptomaniac with a bludgeoning tool and bills to pay. Keep those aspects of his character, and you'll go far; the last thing anyone wants to see is the writers trying to turn him into anything "better" than he is.

Re:If they want inspiration (5, Informative)

Yuioup (452151) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919031)

The reason why Thief 3 didn't have large open levels had to do with the memory limitation of the original xbox. It couldn't handle large levels in de Unreal Engine, so the devs had to compromise and make the levels small.

AFAIK the xbox 360/PS3 (or whatever new machine the new thief is going to run on) can handle large levels so ...

Y

Re:If they want inspiration (4, Insightful)

dunkelfalke (91624) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919507)

And that is also one of the main reason why Deus Ex 2 sucked. They basically made the game for the console only and just added the PC executable. The result: tiny levels, dumbed down story, dumbed down weapon system, awful graphics.

Guess what? It was the same game studio, the same developer team and the same publisher. No wonder the mistakes were the same.

Re:If they want inspiration (2, Insightful)

Plekto (1018050) | more than 4 years ago | (#27924551)

And that is also one of the main reason why Deus Ex 2 sucked. They basically made the game for the console only and just added the PC executable. The result: tiny levels, dumbed down story, dumbed down weapon system, awful graphics.

They need to either make it for the PC first and a dumbed-down version for the 360 or they need to just ignore the XBox entirely.

The problem is that they think that adding support for it will be easy, but the problem is that the controller, graphics, and many other aspects of the game are just not possible on a console. Not without crippling the PC game. Some companies get it right, though, and add features to the PC version. Rockstar is good about this, for instance(GTA 4 is much cleaner and smoother on the PC), but EA... I'm not seeing much hope here.

Plus, PC gamers are a fickle crowd. If it doesn't have at least the graphical quality and scale of FarCry 2, well, forget about it entirely, because that's pretty much the lower limit now for quality and storyline.

Sorry, no. (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 4 years ago | (#27924289)

Just as the x-box was outclassed by the pc's of that era, so the current generation is outclassed by PC's.

People always look at the specs of a console when it is announced, look at their office dell and think WOW! Then a couple of years later when the console is out, they still have that impression but Intel/Amd and nVidia/Ati have moved on. Go ahead, show me how 512mb TOTAL memory compares to a very low powered PC with 2gig and 512mb graphics memory. It is the reason GTA4 has very nice graphics, but still cars that disappear when they are out of sight or pop-up and crash as you round the corner. All the consoles memory is used up by the graphics leaving no room to for instance keep all the cars/pedestrains in memory.

It is the reason MMORPG's don't happen on the console. GTA4 gives you a small selection of cars that appear at one time, but an MMO can't do that. Any texture, any model could be worn by any player and they can appear at random. It is the reason MMORPG's are the memory hogs they are. There is little that can be done about it. Sure, lower the graphics resolution, but that just means you got nasty pictures.

Any cross platform game will be limited by the lowest machine and the consoles are the lowest. Morrowind proved this in extreme. The original game suffered from bad loading on a PC even thought hardly any memory was used. Once the PC only expansion was released, the engine was changed to use all available memory and gone was the loading.

Thief3, Deus Ex2, the entire GTA series are good examples of how the limited memory of consoles restrict game designers in making truly large worlds.

Why do you think there is no WoW on the consoles? Because Blizzard doesn't want any more customers?

Re:Sorry, no. (1)

Rycross (836649) | more than 4 years ago | (#27925163)

It is the reason MMORPG's don't happen on the console.

Well, they have done MMORPGs on consoles. See FFXI for an example. But you're right in that there are severe limitations to console MMORPGs. FFXI, in particular, didn't have a lot of variety in textures and even enemy models.

Re:If they want inspiration (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27919161)

Thief is an appropriate title since everyone will be stealing it with bit torrent.

Re:If they want inspiration (1)

Hope Thelps (322083) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920073)

For the best of the series atmosphere, look to the Shaleridge Cradle section in Thief 3.

Absolutely. My experience with Thief three was roughly: First couple of levels seemed, minor thinks I didn't quite like but there always are. Next few levels... ah, shouldn't the levels be getting bigger by now? Clock Tower, this is STUPID, the top of the tower has people living in comfortable accomodations and as you go down it gets rougher and rougher - in order for them to get up there (and to get their beds etc. up there) they have to climb up pylons and things then rough service elevators before finally reaching better elevators and stairs - nobody builds like this. Next few levels, still playing but not impressed. Then the Cradle - magnificent. I enjoyed the game after that but it's the Cradle that made it.

Someone else said that the levels were limited in size due to the Xbox's capability. I'm sure that was part of it BUT the Cradle wasn't massive and had to fit in those limits too. Granted it had a lot more going for it than just a feeling of scale but even on that basis it was well written to feel like there was more to it than there was. You had branching corridors early on that you planned to come back to later and then you made plot discoveries (what's her name's photo in the attic) with places you were still thinking "I must go back and check that way out" - it made good use of the resources available. The rest didn't.

While I'm complaining about Thief 3, the other thing that really annoyed me was the Rune Wardens or whatever they were called. The Keeper enforcers. When the ordinary guards and such like saw them they ran to attack them. But they should never have seen them. Fine, Garrett with his skills, training and all-round prophesied nature gets to see them and avoid them but these are KEEPERS. They pass unseen. Everyone else should have been oblivious to them.

Okay, so I sound a little obsessive. I liked the games :)

Thi4f (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27918981)

In other news, Deus Ex 3 is being renamed to D3us Ex.

Re:Thi4f (1)

Dutchmaan (442553) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919473)

In other news, Deus Ex 3 is being renamed to D3us Ex.

I still don't know that Thiaf means...

management speak (1)

Mr2cents (323101) | more than 4 years ago | (#27918997)

"and we want to bring the Thief 4 franchise to a new level, so the challenges are huge!"

Stop quacking and start talking!

wait. and. see. (1)

rarel (697734) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919021)

I remain skeptical. I love Thief and I like Thief 2 very much, and Thief 3 was, well, almost as disappointing as Invisible War. Not as much, as it was more refined, but still way below the first two.

It's a bit like DX. What I heard about DX3 tends to indicate it will be rather different from the original in major areas such as gameplay, in spite of Eidos's claims to the contrary. Of course, we'll just have to wait until the game ships to find out. Now Thief 4? I read about the pre-dev concepts Ion Storm Austin was working on shortly before they went under and it was an interesting take, redoing the original game in a modern setting. Obviously though, given it's only just been officially announced, there's no info yet as to what direction they're going for at Eidos.

As always, we cross fingers and hope they won't fuck it up. If they don't pull a Levine and actually keep their promises on Deus Ex 3, a fourth Thief game will be more than welcome. (No offense to Mr. Levine, but BioShock while fun in its own right was not Shock)

Good PR Flak. Here's a donut. (1)

lewko (195646) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919023)

We're listening to these people because they are very hardcore fans

That's nice. And for the rest of the Slashdot readers who couldn't care less?

Re:Good PR Flak. Here's a donut. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27919879)

Well, they should probably just fuck off and stop hanging around a story they don't care about just to tell us how much they can't be bothered to tell us how little they care about it.

Moron.

In music news... (3, Funny)

ciderVisor (1318765) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919085)

...Guns 'n' Roses front man Axl Rose has announced that he's starting a forum to let fans decide what the next album will sound like. The plan was hatched in response to the poor reception of the band's last album "Chinese Democracy". So far, postings have included:

mtlhdz4evr: "Just make it so it doesn't suck, man !"
RckRietGrrrrl619: "I wanna luv sng. Hugz xxx LOL"
ShredKatz: "Buckethed'z the man. He's so fast, dude. More notes this time, yeah ?"
AlkyBanger: "YEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"

Thief (4, Insightful)

DreamsAreOkToo (1414963) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919093)

Fantastic! I love Thief, it's my favorite video game of all time.

However... they ended the series. Not only that, but they kind of butchered their whole attempt at Thief 3. If they want a good new game...

*Item scarcity. 1 & 2 never gave you 30 fire arrows to play with...
*Uninterrupted whole levels. 1 & 2 never had loading zones within a level.
*Complete outdoor areas. 1 & 2 were not set up like dungeons. They were *real* buildings.
*Rooftops.

I could say more, but I'll spare you. :)

Re:Thief (1)

lbbros (900904) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919725)

However, neither 2 nor 3 fixed the problems with the guards: that is, that they suddenly became near-invincible once you were discovered. Other ways (such as alarms, reinforcements, etc.) should be better than that, which looks like "cheating".

Re:Thief (4, Insightful)

sammyF70 (1154563) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919811)

that was a ~problem~ ??
I thought the fact that you were a wimp in hand to hand non-stealthy combat was the main point of the game. Otherwise you could just have played Splinter Cell. This might have solved your second problem with the Thief Serie too : there were too many ways to finish the levels.

Keep the hero a wimp, make the levels as ~open~ as can be with multiple entrances and no forced way of finishing a level or pass an obstacle (see the latest Tomb Raider or Prince of Perversia installments for how NOT to do it), don't include a sidekick, especially if that sidekick is supposed to save you everytime you might have died (hell.. ALLOW for failure. you know, the old "YOU'RE DEAD, GAME OVER" concept that seems to be vanishing out of most games lately), and you'll have a great game on your hands.

Re:Thief (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 4 years ago | (#27922077)

Keep the hero a wimp, make the levels as ~open~ as can be with multiple entrances and no forced way of finishing a level or pass an obstacle (see the latest Tomb Raider or Prince of Perversia installments for how NOT to do it), don't include a sidekick, especially if that sidekick is supposed to save you everytime you might have died (hell.. ALLOW for failure. you know, the old "YOU'RE DEAD, GAME OVER" concept that seems to be vanishing out of most games lately), and you'll have a great game on your hands.

In short, you'll have Nethack.

Actually, I love the first 2 Thief games: as one review put it, Thief was one of the few games where standing still watching and listening for your opponents was exciting. And if it was too easy to go around conking guards on the head, you could always have a nice challenge by leaving all the guards awake and walking around while you went and grabbed all the loot.

Re:Thief (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27919849)

Sure they are a lot tougher once they are aware of you. They have armor, weapons and expertise. You only have a dagger/club and dark cloth. None of that counts when stabbed in the back. All of that counts when fighting face to face.

And actually fighting a single enemy really was no problem. They were just to slow to be dangerous. Only in numbers it is hard to have an eye on everyone.

When I read the first part of your post I thought the problem you are refering to is that these guards are actually too easy to defeat. I thought 3 was kind of boring because it was just too easy to club almost every guard down. It took the thrill out of being a thief. The first part of the series was better here, because there were more enemies that could not be defeated that easily. Like more zombies and those insect things. In 3 it was almost only about how to club the next guard down.

The Cradle is still the best setting ever. I never played a game or a movie that was even half as scary.

You're doing it wrong (3, Informative)

edremy (36408) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920981)

You were discovered? You hurt a guard? I think you miss the entire point of the series. Discovery or using the sword for anything beyond cutting drapes to check for treasure means you are doing it wrong. If you actually kill a guard you do fail the mission- on hard mode you can't ever kill anything, and that's the only way to actually play the series.

Re:Thief (1)

Yunzil (181064) | more than 4 years ago | (#27925197)

However, neither 2 nor 3 fixed the problems with the guards: that is, that they suddenly became near-invincible once you were discovered.

Um, there's a reason the game is called "Thief". If you are ever discovered, that's pretty much an indication that you failed.

Re:Thief (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27920197)

Dromed/dark engine (thief 1&2 engin) has a substractive geometry: there are no outdoor areas.
Even outdoors, there is a ceiling: you only think it's a sky because they have applied the "SKY HACK" texture to the ceiling.

Re:Thief (1)

FiloEleven (602040) | more than 4 years ago | (#27924181)

As opposed to...what? Does the new Id engine have real sky or something? How does that work? Does it require leaving the house? If so, you've been had.

He wasn't talking about engine tech, he was talking about level design and I agree completely.

New petition for T1&2 source release,please mo (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27919137)

The Thief fan community has been trying to get the source to Thief 1 & 2 released for several years but with little success - as a consequence of the bankruptcy of the original developer, it has been hard to even find out who might have it let alone be in a position to release it. However, recently there has been a glimmer of hope since one developer seems to have information about it but permission is still needed, which is why a new petition has been started. We want to improve the engine and enable it to run on modern systems so please slashdot the release petition:

http://www.petitiononline.com/ThiefSrc/ [petitiononline.com]

Note: This is not the same petition as before but a new one. So even if you have signed the old one, please sign this too.

Please mod it up! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27919171)

Didn't notice that the subject line was too long.

Re:New petition for T1&2 source release,please (1)

soniCron88 (870042) | more than 4 years ago | (#27922919)

"We are only requesting the original source code for the graphics engine to these games, not anything more."

Don't you want the audio engine, utility code, and logic, too?

Re:New petition for T1&2 source release,please (1)

soniCron88 (870042) | more than 4 years ago | (#27922953)

On a more serious note, weren't the games made with the Unreal Engine? If so, I believe you'll be pleading indefinitely, because I doubt they have the right to open source that, as well.

I could be wrong.

Re:New petition for T1&2 source release,please (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27923633)

You are wrong. Thief 1 & 2 use the Dark Engine, as does System Shock 2. T3 uses a UE, which is why it lacks rope arrows and swimmable water and that's why fans have been so disappointed with it.

Re:New petition for T1&2 source release,please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27923899)

Yes, the petition was written by an idiot - as was the previous one. I was absent from the forums when it was put up so I have to support it as it is. However, I think they will understand what we want because undoubtedly some developer will be involved when/if it is released and realize what we intend to do with it. Furthermore other source releases are mentioned, which could also clarify it.

Re:New petition for T1&2 source release,please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27924041)

By the time we get source code, OpDE, the Open Dark Engine, will be finished.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/opde/ [sourceforge.net]

There's not a lot of discussion on the mailing list -- it's mainly a two-man project ATM. More devs are always welcome.

Thief 4: The Franchise's Miraculous Continuation (1)

Ignatius D'Lusional (1010911) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919233)

I swear, the first couple games were so good, I figured they'd stay overlooked forever. When the third one came out, I thought that it would be the death knell for the whole franchise. But now... it might be around for a long time! Honestly, these are some of the best games ever created. Huzzah!

Since Looking Glass Studios no longer exist... (1)

Kamamura (235695) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919277)

... Thief 4 is basically a stolen license :-)

BTW Thief 3 sucked badly.

Re:Since Looking Glass Studios no longer exist... (1)

sammyF70 (1154563) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919847)

Thief3 wasn't THAT bad. It still had the creepiest level of any game of all time in it. And personally I actually like the fact that you could roam the city. Too bad many tha many levels were just too linear and that they replaced the rope arrow with the stupid gloves though.

Re:Since Looking Glass Studios no longer exist... (1)

kiehlster (844523) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920527)

Yes, I played 1 & 2 and they were awesome, but the disappointments leading up to 3 were so awful that I skipped that one entirely. Unless they bring back LGS, I won't have any expectations for 4, nor will I have much interest in it.

Producing for consoles will dumb it down (2, Insightful)

zaibazu (976612) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919635)

The originality of the first 2 Thief titles will never be possible when the game is dunbed down for the console generation.
Just look at Bioshock which was supposed to be the spiritual successor of the beloved System Shock series.
Another victim of the consoles is Deus Ex 2 which I consider a sibling title of Thief 3, same studio, same problems due to console restraints.

Re:Producing for consoles will dumb it down (1)

Tybalt_Capulet (1400481) | more than 4 years ago | (#27930059)

Deus Ex 2 wasn't worse than it should have been. No console games I know of had one ammo type.

OMG! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27919761)

A 12 year old kid that loved the thief series dream just came true :D

Yay (1)

ran93r (671906) | more than 4 years ago | (#27919971)

As one of the six people who enjoyed Thief 3, I for one welcome our new, numb3r subst1tut10n 0v3rl0rd5.

Re:Yay (1)

east coast (590680) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920519)

Count me as number 7.

As a long time Thief fan and advocate I did have some issues with the interface. But I guess everyone has an opinion of what's good.

And I must say that Shalebridge Cradle was one of those missions that made me realize that I might need to wear some Depends undergarments when I play games that are so immersive. It wasn't as beautiful as The Bonehorde or The Haunted Cathedral but it was still one hell of a good time.

Re:Yay (1)

unsigned integer (721338) | more than 4 years ago | (#27924115)

Yes, but who is number one?! I am not a number, I am a free man!

Re:Yay (1)

Mursk (928595) | more than 4 years ago | (#27924349)

Between your user name and your post, I am a little confused...

(And yes, I know The Prisoner).

Re:Yay (1)

east coast (590680) | more than 4 years ago | (#27925611)

I don't know anything about The Prisoner but my guess is his name means this [wikipedia.org].

Re:Yay (1)

Hogwash McFly (678207) | more than 4 years ago | (#27925731)

I think the parent was commenting on the incongruity of someone named 'unsigned integer' exclaiming that they aren't a number. I like to think the grandparent posted it knowingly, but you never can tell.

Re:Yay (1)

MaerD (954222) | more than 4 years ago | (#27921977)

You did it wrong. It's "our n4w numb4r subst1tut10n 0v4rl0rd5", or did you not get the memo?

Thief 1,2 & 3 (1)

wjousts (1529427) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920367)

I never played any of the original games, but I've heard good things about them. Hope they'll release them on GOG as a way to drum up interest in the new game.

Re:Thief 1,2 & 3 (1)

Jaqenn (996058) | more than 4 years ago | (#27922981)

You can pick them up on ebay for ~$8.

If you sign up for a free gametap account, they usually have Thief 3 cycling through the reduced set of games allowed to be played by the free account tier.

And a random sideline... (1)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920465)

...those who can't wait should check out The Dark Mod [thedarkmod.com] for Doom 3 - a toolkit for building Thief 1/2 style missions in a reasonably modern game engine. The two alpha missions so far looked extremely good.

Wonder which will be released first, TDM or Thief 4?

Re:And a random sideline... (1)

LordKaT (619540) | more than 4 years ago | (#27921405)

TDM has been in closed development for so long, I refuse to believe it even exists. The community around it is unhelpful, the project leaders are uncommunicative, the developers refuse to discuss what they're working on, and contributing to the project requires an application process.

Quite frankly, after all these years (5 or 6 years now?) of teaser screen shots and videos, I think TDM is the mod communities version of DNF.

Re:And a random sideline... (1)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 4 years ago | (#27922987)

TDM has been in closed development for so long, I refuse to believe it even exists.

Eh? There's two alpha levels released not terribly long ago. They're actually out there, downloadable and playable, right now - quite unlike DNF =) If the stuff in those alphas is of any indication, the thing is well on its way.

It's a total conversion mod that makes the game look and behave nothing like the original Doom 3 - of course it takes preposterous amounts of time to complete. Just try unpacking the alpha levels without saying "holy damn that's a lot of textures". =)

Re:And a random sideline... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#27924085)

Are you mistaking TDM for Black Mesa? Hell, Dark Mod released a demo, and a playable mission, The Tears of St. Lucia already. Pay attention, son!

Oh, and there's also OPDE, which will eventually run the original Thief 1 & 2 games, Fan missions, and System Shock 2. More developers would be nice.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/opde/

As bad as Theif 3 was... (2)

giltnerj0 (210486) | more than 4 years ago | (#27920697)

It still included one of the best levels of any game in the history of ever and awesome.
The Shalebridge Cradle. This level alone gets me to play Theif 3 every so often.

Re:As bad as Theif 3 was... (2)

Adam Jorgensen (1302989) | more than 4 years ago | (#27922417)

Agreed. Although Thief 3 was not as cool as Thief 1 or 2, The Shalebridge Cradle was possibly one of the best levels I've played in any first-person type game. It was seriously atmospheric and incredibly spooky.

Sounds to me they will screw it up.. (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 4 years ago | (#27921923)

They say something about a broader target audience. For Games like Thief, System Shock, Deus Ex, that is a death sentence. Well, not quite, but it assures they will disappoint the fans. Case in Point: Deus Ex was great, Deus Ex 2 was a sick joke. Thief 3 managed to avoid this fate, but narrowly. I remember not finishing it, because I could just not stand some aspects of the game.

Focus on the AI (3, Funny)

rainmaestro (996549) | more than 4 years ago | (#27921995)

I don't care which engine they use anymore. Thief 1/2 engine or Thief 3, either one would work with some enhancements. Yeah, the Thief 3 engine had some *issues*, but that whole generation of ragdoll games had issues. DX2, VTM:B, Thief3...

My biggest hope is some improved AI. Sure, I could make some long, insightful post about the shortcomings of the AI in all three games, but CAD summed it up quite nicely:
http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20040616 [ctrlaltdel-online.com]

Thief 3 - better than it's made out to be (0)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 4 years ago | (#27922241)

OK, when Thief first came out, I played the demo and loved it, but it was so painfully clunky on my old PC that I didn't buy it at the time.

Thief 2 came out, and I had the same ancient PC.

By the time Thief 3 was released, I had a shiny new computer, and immediately bought the game. It was just what I was hoping for. Stealthy, sneaky, scary, and (relatively) realistic. I played beginning to end, then went back and replayed some of my favorite bits. Being able to walk through the streets of the city gave it a much more live feel than just going mission-to-mission.

Eventually, I went back and started on Thief 2. It was good too. Different--different controls, different movement, and different tools, but still very good. I didn't get as far into it because of other reasons (becoming a dad, rather suddenly) but I never understood the hatred for Thief 3. It really was a good game!

Re:Thief 3 - better than it's made out to be (1)

brkello (642429) | more than 4 years ago | (#27922761)

because of other reasons (becoming a dad, rather suddenly)

I can't help but wonder how that happened. Well, I mean, not how the first part happened...how it could be sprung upon you.

Re:Thief 3 - better than it's made out to be (1)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 4 years ago | (#27933119)

I'll answer that because, well...it's fun!

The key is adoption. You know that SOMETHING could POSSIBLY happen at any time, but in our case, we got a phone call one day, and 30 hours later we were parents of a newborn.

So yeah--suddenly.

Re:Thief 3 - better than it's made out to be (2, Funny)

Lord Ender (156273) | more than 4 years ago | (#27924137)

I didn't get as far into it because of other reasons (becoming a dad, rather suddenly)

So you've discovered a means to accelerate the gestation process?

Multiplayer! (1)

flogger (524072) | more than 4 years ago | (#27922897)

Loved Thief one and two.

My favorite aspects of the game have been talked about already: Anti-protagonist, scarcity of items, large full levels, great atmosphere, etc...

What I'd love to see is A multiplayer version. Co-op, Anti-Co-op (Get the golden statue before the opposition does. -- Wouldn't it be a hoot to fire a noise arrow in the direction you think an opponent is hiding while the guard is searching for you both.), Guard vs Thief (one sided capture the flag.)

YES! (1)

Sabathius (566108) | more than 4 years ago | (#27923439)

There IS a God. Thank you once again to Lookinglass Studios (R.I.P.) for creating this in the first place. I, for one, can't friggin wait! My favorite game of all time.

Thief : fond memories (1)

mugnyte (203225) | more than 4 years ago | (#27924903)

The "first-person sneaker" was attractive in its debut. The qualities that made it interesting have been copied, perhaps not all together (medevil mashup, steampunk, pinpoint auditory clues, darkness as a character, actual personalities in NPC voiceovers, etc).

The gameplay mechanics were a little clumsy, and never really fixed with the 3rd release (3rd person views and short loads were a terrible addition due to the console market).

My best suggestions:

  - Go back to passing tests for the new character, given by the master Garrett. Make Garrett initially really distant and ambivalent, and perhaps she is only tested by Keepers as Garrett is sick of the scene and doubts her abilities.

  - Keep it solo. Team and multi-player are fun, but not really useful in a game where you want to crouch, wait, watch and think.

  - Keep some set pieces that tie the entire series: some steampunk, some undead, some faerie-land. Introduce a new one, perhaps an other-worldly egyptian motif. Yes, its been done but not in this series and setting.

  - Move history forward. Introduce a train: rail technology, and the use of conveyor-belted mechanics.

  - Hurt the character permanently. Garrett lost an eye and it didn't effect the post-event gameplay, but it was intriguing. Perhaps an otherworldly animal is implanted in her and can be played as a character for short periods, leaving the host body comatose (and vulnerable) in the interim.

  - Scare the player. The designs of some levels in the Thief series were quite scary, using backwards voices, shrieks, and hulking, angry, unbeatable monsters just a breath from your hiding area.

  - Add better use of fire and water. Burn some places down, flood some others.

  - Keep the best open-freedom tools: rope arrow, etc. Switch to a crossbow. Get rid of the sword (use a dagger). Give the female character a "run silent for 3 seconds" capability that must be used to complete certain sections. She cannot jump as far/high as a tradeoff. Keep the weapons weak, and multiple paths to success.

  - Keep the twists: I have no content to write here, but the double-cross, the incorporation of a new "class" of characters with a strong zealotry to something bizarre, interesting environmental mechanics, etc. Make the game pursue a town-ending or world-ending plot, that lends a lot of weight behind the resolution. Don't make success easy - require every skill to be used.

  - Remove the looped paths for guards. For example, the player must wait for a dinner/ceremony to end, or create a commotion outside, or climb on the roof and put out a fire in the fireplace by dumping something down the chimney before they can get past a certain room (multiple paths to success).

  - Support 3D. A gimmick really, but with a dual-monitor setup, a polarizer and some glasses, the game could charge more and make easy use of an otherwise already 3D engine.

  - Support 5:1 stereo. Really raise the bar on the sound - again, like the 1st game did.

  - Improve the sound/physics engines of the past games. Better align sound volumes to activities. It was laughable how loud certain actions were (lock picking is a delicate, quiet act that has an echo? not) in past revisions. Why would a thief wear tap shoes? Make doors, floors creak, gravel crunch, and NPCs can hear quiet things. Don't make metal grating a bunch of stomping noises, but instead a wobbly, banging noise, like walking on a sidewalk elevator cover.

  - Make ambient music a character. Turn it off/on when necessary. Use several compositions per area, not just one, depending on the achievements.

  - Allow for daylight! Certain levels don't need darkness, but merely careful play acting. Passing as a townie in DS was interesting, but it was still always night.

Forum won't let me join? (1)

Tybalt_Capulet (1400481) | more than 4 years ago | (#27929969)

I wanted to post ideas in the forum they have set up , but the sign-in wouldn't let me join.

My new idea they should implement: more bandwidth.

Must have for Thief4 (1)

A_Non_Moose (413034) | more than 4 years ago | (#27932951)

As said before:

huge levels are a must, none of the console BS.

Garrett's style and the humor in 1&2 (esp 2's arguing archers)

3's grfx, I suppose would be good, and the lockpicking from 3 (toss up between time freeze, slow, or IRT)

Whatever BS that was in 3 where the person stiffened before being "boffed on the bonce" (whacked on the head),
sheesh, made a mildly playable game insufferably stupid.

Two words: Rope Arrows!

Back to basics and proven games that ppl liked about the first two.

Or, best summation:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/544-Thief-The-Dark-Project [escapistmagazine.com]

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