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The Best Achievements

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the collecting-nerd-points dept.

Games 107

Like them or not, achievements have become a staple of modern gaming, giving players goals to strive for and a measuring stick with which they can compare themselves to random strangers on the internet. Eurogamer discusses why they've become so popular, and takes a look at some of the most entertaining examples. Quoting: "... we mock Achievement points because they spell out in large numbers what is so pathetic about video games. But we also celebrate them, because, when used in funny, creative or interesting ways, they also spell out what is so compelling and wonderful about video games. Because for every Achievement in which you have to do nothing more than play through a tutorial there's another that subverts convention, rewarding you for skipping it instead. For every fetch quest that has you collecting dogtags for the millionth time, there's another that makes you fight the baddy with your arms tied behind your back. And for every Achievement you earn in jest for pressing the start button, there's another that only rewards the single best player in the world."

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What Can I Say? (5, Interesting)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961695)

With a grand total of 311,673 gamerpoints, Xbox Live User Stallion83 has won more in-game achievements than any other player. Indeed, he's earned the full 1000 gamerpoints for no less than 204 of the 437 games he's played on his Xbox 360, a Herculean accomplishment of time, effort and, in a great many cases, skill. And yet, as the URL of his website, makes perfectly clear, Stallion83's quest for numerical glory is not even halfway done.

People love recognition. And you're making this published online? Finally, something you can look at at the end of a day spent gaming and feel some sort of achievement (no matter how small).

Hats off to you, Stallion83. I somehow envy and pity you at the same time.

Hell, I myself am guilty of this on the very site we are communicating on (reminds me, need to go moderate to keep that running total).

Brilliant move on Microsoft's part (can I say that here?). Certainly not original but ingenious to add an additional level of addiction.

Re:What Can I Say? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27961741)

Certainly not original but ingenious to add an additional level of addiction.

That's where selling games and selling crack in front of schools meet.

That's why when people say that "videogames are art" I laugh at them.

Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27961755)

Brilliant? No.

A ripoff? Yes. []

Sony and Insomniac Games invented the Skill Point(aka Acheivement) system all the way back in 1998. They've been a staple of Sony/Playstation games ever since all the way up to their current incarnation, Trophies.

What is mind boggling about Microsoft's ripoff of Sony's Skill Point system was that Microsoft utterly failed to grasp the entire point. Skill Points were something extra above and beyond the game that if you put in the effort you were rewarded with unlockables, cheats, new skins, and so on.

Microsoft copied the mechanics of Skill Points, but then idiotically just made them give you a completely pointless 'gamerscore' that means nothing other than silly 'my gamerscore number is higher than yours' e-penish waving.

Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (5, Informative)

MediaStreams (1461187) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961821)

Sony really got Skill Points/Trophies/Achievements right with the PS3.

The Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum breakdown lets you look at another gamer's profile and almost immediately get a sense of just what type of gamer they are.

With Trophies you get:

* Obviously what games they play

* What games they like the most and put the most time into

* What type of gamer they are - lots of just Bronze Trophies and they like to buy games and not complete them, lots of Silver and Gold Trophies and they are a serious gamer who completes games and gets lots of the side quests and hard parts of games done, Platinums and you know you've looking at a hardcore gamer

And like Skill Points, Sony has talked about your Trophy level unlocking things inside of Home in the future.

No, no.. (4, Funny)

msimm (580077) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962853)

They're badges of shame. I remember cringing when I was on a serious Team Fortress 2 jag and it proudly displayed my in-game hours (eagles scream!). After they decided to add full-on achievements I'd decided to explore a bit more of this life thing I'd heard so many people talking about.

Re:No, no.. (2, Insightful)

discord5 (798235) | more than 5 years ago | (#27964311)

proudly displayed my in-game hours (eagles scream!)

The last time I got 10.0 Eagles Scream on Steam I was on leave and my vacation plans got canceled. Two weeks of spending most of my time either playing TF2 or flying a spaceship around in the X3 sequel (or is that expansion) messing about with the scripting interface (which I must say is an abominable horror).

A friend of mine looked at my profile, pointed it out to me, and at that point I realized I had just wasted two weeks on gaming. It had been since my high school days since I had wasted that much time on videogames. For some reason it didn't quite bring the same satisfaction that it used to.

Re:No, no.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27967449)

The last time I had a 10 Screaming Eagles on Steam was when I left the house on a camping trip and ran a exe file through Steam named "AFK until March 26th" to let my Steam buddies know I was gone. Apparently time spent in non-steam "games" counts toward your Steam rating, because when I got back my profile reported over a hundred logged hours.

As a member of the gather community, I usually run games like Team Fortress 2 in Windowed mode (there was one week when I left Team Fortress 2 on pretty much constantly from sun up to sun down so that I can alt-tab into them whenever I want to play them rather than waiting 5 minutes for them to start up. I got quite a few people asking if I really did play the game for fifty hours a week. It's like leaving your PC on: Just beacuse it's powered up 24 hours a day doesn't mean it's used for all of that time!

Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (5, Insightful)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961847)

No, you're the one who doesn't grasp the concept.

The idea is to have EVERY game have tons of little achievements. People find them, accidentally, and then find themselves wanting to complete the set. It keeps them playing past the point where they might have otherwise stopped.

Having more people playing your games improves your mind share, and attracts more developers. And it costs MS not one cent. They are giving away absolutely nothing, but because it's a limited amount of nothing, and you need to work to get that nothing, people eat it up.

It's been a tremendous success, to the point that other companies are now mimicking it. Sony Skill Points? Who's ever heard of those?

Why Couldn't Microsoft Grasp Such A Basic Concept? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27961919)

It is rumored that Microsoft is finally fixing their broken Skill Points ripoff to follow more closely Sony's Trophy system where you have various Trophy levels that are exponentially more difficult to obtain. And also Microsoft is finally understanding that no one cares about the stupid gamerscore and that the original purpose behind Skill Points was to reward the player, not just add to some pointless number.

The real question is why did it take Microsoft so long to finally catch on? Microsoft obviously has no one working for them that has any experience with console hardware design and manufacturing with the RRoD fiasco and the PS3 humiliating the 360's graphics. But you would at least Microsoft would have people working on the Xbox that are actual gamers and understand something as obvious as the Skill Point and Trophy systems.

Re:Why Couldn't Microsoft Grasp Such A Basic Conce (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27962933)

Look, clearly you're an enormous dickhead, so rather than belabour the point that logically either Microsoft copied skill points OR gamerscore is entirely different from skill points but NOT BOTH, I will instead inform you that you have no clue what exponentially means.

Re:Why Couldn't Microsoft Grasp Such A Basic Conce (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27962953)

Awww, poor liddle Xbot!

Xbot faggots always start crying every time their shitty copies of existing game concepts gets laughed at. Go fuck yourself loser. You're nothing but a shitstain on the shoe of the gaming world.

Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27962101)

The reason why gamers consider Microsoft's ripoff of Sony's Skill Points to be such a joke is it is a system that designed with Microsoft's bottom line in mind and not gamers.

The stupid GamerScore tells people nothing more than how much money you've wasted buying tons of shit games no one would normally want just to inflate your score. Absolutely disgusting to any real gamer. But not surprising coming from a company like Microsoft.

Ever heard someone ask someone else what their GamerScore is? Didn't think so.

Yet you hear all the time people talking about how many Platnium Trophies someone has.

Stupid, Microsoft. Stupid.

Such a basic concept that anyone who plays games could have explained to them.


Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (5, Insightful)

brkello (642429) | more than 5 years ago | (#27967801)

Um, hate to break this to you. I have never heard anyone talk about Platinum Trophies either. I have a feeling that hardcore MS gamers talk about gamerscore and hardcore Sony gamers talk about platinum trophies. The rest of the us just play games to have fun and aren't involved in the stupid fanboy crap.

Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (2, Interesting)

Cheeko (165493) | more than 5 years ago | (#27970357)

Indeed. Not to mention most people could care less about overall scores or totals, but rather compare with their friends what they've done in a specific game.

Oh you got the 10k kills in Halo? Nice I'm only 30% of the way there, etc.

Its only on the high end of things that the overall total becomes an e-peen contest.

The MS achievements are also nice because they gauge progress as well as skill in a lot of cases. You can tell if a person finished a game AND if they were good at it. Its the perfect mix as it allows a casual person to feel like they are achieving something and the hardcore gamer can bump his chest and show how he got the hardest achievement in the game done.

LOL! The Xbots Always Cry Over MS's Ripoff (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27962147)

It's like seeing someone who thinks some shitty band that stole the look and sound of a much better older band and they lash out because they look like retards for letting everyone know they are the ripoff band's biggest fan.

It is hilarious that you have these 'bad ass' 20 something Xbots going out and buying games like My Little Pony just to inflate their retarded and pointless gamerscore...


Re:LOL! The Xbots Always Cry Over MS's Ripoff (2, Funny)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 5 years ago | (#27972567)

There's a My Little Pony game? Fucking awesome! I was holding off on buying an Xbox, but you changed my mind, buddy!

Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27963473)

Achievements/collectibles are put into games that have no replay value. A genuinely good game will hold a player to it for years based on gameplay alone.

Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (2)

Hatta (162192) | more than 5 years ago | (#27965647)

The idea is to have EVERY game have tons of little achievements. People find them, accidentally, and then find themselves wanting to complete the set.

I don't get it. When I get a game, I want to complete it. But when completing a game involves dicking around with hundreds of pointless achievements, it's clear I'll never complete it, or at least I won't have any fun doing it. So I move on to another game.

I still haven't finished Mario 64 for this reason. I got sick of playing the same damn level over and over again looking for yet another god damned star. I made it to the end of the level without dying, why can't that be enough?

Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (3, Interesting)

Xest (935314) | more than 5 years ago | (#27966253)

To me that's the key difference between a good achievements system and a bad one.

Call of Duty 4 was imo quite good, 1000 points was achievable on the 360 if you played well, but you also didn't really have to go out of your way to get them - you just had to be quite good at the game to get the mile high club one and I liked that, getting it actually felt like an achievement.

Compare that to something like Fallout 3, where you're expected to do tedious, dull side quests that are no more exciting than your average dumbed down so the server doesn't keel over MMO quests and the main game story finishes in just a few hours and you have an example of a crap achievement system. Stuff like Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 1 and some of the NHL games had silly achievements too where you effectively had to be the best online player in the world or thereabouts to achieve them. Most people don't have time to get themselves up to that level.

Sometimes the extra stuff on top of the main storyline works - some of the big open world games can be pretty fun with achievements like climb your way to the tallest part of the game world in Crackdown, but others, such as finding the 800 or whatever orbs it was you had to find total were just fucking stupid.

Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27961879)

That has always been the problem with Microsoft and the Xbox.

They have no real gamers working for them or people with big dreams and grand ideas. Instead they seem only capable of stealing ideas from Nintendo and Sony and coming out with crappy versions of their own.

Microsoft stole Nintendo's Mii avatars and came out with their own much ridiculed Microsoft version.

Microsoft implemented a poorly thought out version of Spyro the Dragon skill point system and renamed it 'achievements'

Microsoft is now about to unveil their own imitation Wii-mote.

Just like Microsoft's Zune is nothing more than a crappy iPod ripoff.

Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (5, Interesting)

R.Morton (1540993) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961893)

Actually Sony didn't come up with it first either, Activision, Imagic, Atari were doing this sort of thing back in the 80's Albeit with "real awards" of physical item such as T-Shirts (Imagic, Atari),patchs and pins (Activision) as well as Baseball caps. (all 3 did this from time to time.)

  just google it and see for yourself.


Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (5, Informative)

R.Morton (1540993) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961935)

sorry to double post just wanted to throw a link in here related to my above post. []

1998 Spyro Skill Points Earliest Example (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27962019)

1998's Spyro on Sony's PS1 is the earliest example that anyone has come up with that:

1. A unified system with an overall progression level

2. Elements that a player normally wouldn't do in normal gameplay

3. Rewards for obtaining X number of those elements

Nintendo had games for the GameCube with something similar, but they came a few years after Spyro.

High Scores
Easter Eggs
Secret weapons and items or areas
Rewards for high scores

all existed before Spyro. But the Sony's Spyro game was the first to ever come up with what we now know as the Skill Point aka Trophy aka Acheivement system today.

Re:1998 Spyro Skill Points Earliest Example (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27963553)

What about Wolfenstein3D? You also had secret areas, extra ammo and weapons.

Re:1998 Spyro Skill Points Earliest Example (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27970161)

Yeah, because all of those things were never implemented seamlessly in the same game before 1998, especially not in Nethack back in the late 80's.

No, Spyro was a good game, but it was not groundbreaking in the "Skill point" area.

Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (2, Funny)

xp (146294) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961921)

Also Slashdot's karma is the same idea. So basically it's a ripoff.
Slow Poke []

Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (4, Funny)

fractoid (1076465) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962183)

e-penish waving.

And that's what Sean Connery thinks of online gaming.

Re:Microsoft's Ripoff Of Sony's Skill Points (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27967403)

Microsoft copied the mechanics of Skill Points, but then idiotically just made them give you a completely pointless 'gamerscore' that means nothing other than silly 'my gamerscore number is higher than yours' e-pingas waving.

FTFY. Adds more troll nature.

Re:What Can I Say? (4, Interesting)

Freaky Spook (811861) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961791)

Brilliant move on Microsoft's part (can I say that here?). Certainly not original but ingenious to add an additional level of addiction.

Being more into the story, or the action of the game, I am usually pretty oblivious to the Achievement system, and find achievements are earned pretty randomly for any stupid little nuance the creators decided to include.

I don't replay titles just to collect achievements, like Assassins Creed where you get an achievement for collecting every flag in the game, to me that's just completley pointless.

I know some people obsess over their achievement score though, and occasionally I end up in a lobby with some kid bragging about his score, or people picking on other people because they have low achievement scores and it reminds me of why it was so good to finish high school to get away from that crap.

Re:What Can I Say? (-1, Troll)

CheshireFerk-o (412142) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962597)

this is the price, when you pay m$ to get into the stupid lobby with their stupid kids with their stupid achievements. I was completely unaware of this system having never used a m$360 and it sounds like perfect food for the idiots who pay m$ to play online.

Re:What Can I Say? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27971533)

wow thanks for totally destorying my karma you m$assfucks. it'd be nice to find a site where someone can have mod points 12hours beforehand and then speak his mind and have it ruined, nice modding asshats. its nice no know once something's been modded down once thats more people willl jump in and lower it more.

Re:What Can I Say? (1)

Sensible Clod (771142) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961809)

Obligatory link: []

*Badeep badoop!* Achievement Unlocked!

Re:What Can I Say? (5, Interesting)

N3Roaster (888781) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961873)

If you like achievements, I recommend Achievement Unlocked [] (the poor elephant...).

Re:What Can I Say? (1)

Sensible Clod (771142) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962191)

Did you post that link as AC below? If so, I hate you.

I got all 100 "achievements".

Re:What Can I Say? (1)

N3Roaster (888781) | more than 5 years ago | (#27963237)

No, I don't post AC. But you can hate me anyway. You'll note that my link lets you earn badges for getting the achievements.

Re:What Can I Say? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27966637)

And cue the whole 'Sup Dawg, thing, involving badges in your badges so you can achieve while you achieve.

I will admit, that's one of my favorite games on Kongregate. Yes, it's simple; yes, there's no over-reaching story. But it's humorous as a form of self-parody (being 'achievement-oriented' myself), as well as actually being playable, if you think about the achievements being the tasks of the game. I rate it more highly than that whole Burn the Rope game/meme.

Re:What Can I Say? (5, Funny)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961875)

Certainly not original but ingenious to add an additional level of addiction.

I wonder if we need more addiction for today's games. Why not just make it, you know, fun?

Re:What Can I Say? (3, Interesting)

MrAngryForNoReason (711935) | more than 5 years ago | (#27963983)

I don't think that achievements are related to how addictive a game is. I see them as acknowledgement of your time spent with a game. I like them because after playing a game for a few hours there is recognition of my time spent and what I have done in that time.

This is especially true in multiplayer games, or puzzle games that you play over and over. With a single player story you can measure achievement by how far through you are. But after 100 games of Settlers of Catan, or Gears of War you aren't any further forward. Achievements very simply show what you achieved in a game.

Now I don't subscribe to the whole 'collect every last X' type achievements that require players to scour levels for every last bit of junk. But when they are used properly they reward players for playing well, and for doing things over and above in the game. A good example of this is in Left 4 Dead. A lot of the achievements are given when you take a risk and pull it off. For instance there is one for leaving the safe room to help another player, rewarding the kind of play that makes the game more exciting and enjoyable for the whole team.

Re:What Can I Say? (3, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 5 years ago | (#27964335)

Thank you for mentioning L4D. Because some of the achivments are actually diametrally CONTRARY to the main theme of the game: Teamwork.

Examples? The one where you can only use pistols. How does this empower my team if I deliberately reduce my capability to fight? I become a liability for my team.

No HP-kit or healing someone when you have less than 10 HP yourself. Same. To get this achivement, you have to play "stupid". You throw away a HP kit in both cases. In the first example, you pretty much become a pill hogger, depriving your team from this resource. In the latter, you are possibly wasting your HP kit (which you should definitly use at 10 HP or less) just to get that achivement.

And so on.

I don't say all achivements in L4D are braindead. Some are very, very intelligent. Though I wish they had put more emphasis on achivements that reward teamplay. How about one where you get an achivement for a few 1000 saves? Or where you can actually lose achivements again if you consistantly play like a selfish prick?

Re:What Can I Say? (3, Insightful)

MrAngryForNoReason (711935) | more than 5 years ago | (#27965249)

I think the idea of achievements like the pistols only one is that everyone in the team goes for it at once. Thereby creating a new kind of mode. A bit like the WoW achievements where you have to complete a fight in a certain way that makes it more challenging.

Re:What Can I Say? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27965837)

I recall mapping dual-pistol fire to the mousewheel and being no worse off than any of the other boobs on my team that couldn't aim with a shotgun.

As a result, I usually have a much higher ratio of headshots. It's pretty similar to just using the machine guns, tbh.

Re:What Can I Say? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27966113)

try playing COD4 (or 5) with only a non-deagle pistol!
ive done it before, but nothing beats knifing an entire team without being noticed :)

Re:What Can I Say? (1)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#27969255)

The pistols are awesome because the ammo is unlimited. The pistols really aren't much worse than the AR at most things, and with the exception of close-range Tank combat, the pistols are better than the shotgun.

Healing someone when you have less than 10 life is done easily, and without wasting your health pack, when one of your teammates was just brought back from incapacitation. Their health is lower than yours in this case, in every sense but numerically.

Re:What Can I Say? (1)

AndersOSU (873247) | more than 5 years ago | (#27971335)

I like the achievements in L4D, but then again I don't try to get them on purpose. When one of them pops up, I look at that as the game congratulating me for doing something interesting. Yeah, if you have achievement whoring 'tards on your team, that sucks, but odds are, they'd still be 'tards even if they weren't whoring achievements.

(the exception to not trying for achievements are things like only pistols - which I think can make the game more fun for you AND your team - IF you let them know.)

Re:What Can I Say? (1)

mathx314 (1365325) | more than 5 years ago | (#27972467)

Believe it or not, I actually got the less than 10 HP medkit achievement in a not-stupid way. Tank tore up the party, two people (me one of them) below 10 HP. The other guy had already been knocked out twice, so a third time would kill him. I hadn't been knocked out at all. I had the only medkit. You can probably figure out what I did.

Re:What Can I Say? (1)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 5 years ago | (#27973201)

Maybe not addictive, but it certainly appeals to people's basic desire to finish what they start. I feel especially sorry for people with OCD. They should incorporate some sort of auto-disable of achievements for people who can't stop. Maybe at the start of the game, they should tell you to click on a target that moves away from the cursor, or hit 'B' to abort, and then turn off achievements for anyone who spends more than 5 seconds trying to click it.

Of course, if they did that, they'd probably make achievements for it. "Spent 3 hours trying to click an unclickable target!"

Sort of (5, Interesting)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961911)

Sort of, but not everyone, or not in the same way. For example, as early as the first online games (MUDs), Bartle wrote his classic paper in which he distinguished the following kinds of players and their interactions with the game and with each other:

- achievers, who love achieving stuff. They want to have the biggest score, the most virtual money, have the full top-tier equipment set, etc

- explorers, who are mostly interested interested in reverse engineering your game. They want to discover places, or to reverse engineer how your game works, or whatever other intellectual pursuits. Many actually don't care much about material achievements or titles, except in as much as they're needed to explore. Their "achievements" are all about knowledge gained, not stuff you could hang on the wall or sum up in points.

- socializers, who are pretty much just using your game as a chat room which incidentally happens to also have a game on the side. These people are there to make friends, organize some guild party, stuff like that. And chat lots. Although you could point out that these are their own kind of achievements, they're also not the kind that's easy to automatically measure and slap a title on.

- "killers", named so because their greatest reward is driving someone off the game, effectively perma-killing them off. They're the kind who'll try to harrass, annoy, give you grief, etc. Or what the rest of the world calls "griefers" or "trolls". Their favourite prey are the ones who take unwarranted hostility personally, i.e., the socializers. Although the "killers" title can be confusing, don't confuse them with PvP-ers. A lot of PvP-ers are actually just achievers (e.g., for the honour points), and a lot of killers actually are more creative with their harrassment than camping your corpse all day.

Anyway, again, it's the kind of thing which is hard to measure in achievements. And most killers don't care much about their character (including equipment, titles, etc) as such anyway, it's just a harrassment tool. Think of all the guys who didn't even bother getting another armour than the death shroud in UO, for example. Their achievement wasn't having the best looking outfit, but the fact that they could gank you repeatedly when you went mining. A lot bought disposable accounts who will get banned, but hopefully serve their purpose as harrassment tools in the meantime. What makes anyone think that on such a disposable account any titles achieved on a character matter at all?

Re:Sort of (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27964401)

In order:

Diamonds, spades, hearts, clubs.

Re:What Can I Say? (2, Funny)

silent_artichoke (973182) | more than 5 years ago | (#27968791)

Congratulations, Stallion83... you ARE the biggest loser!

Hackers (0, Offtopic)

Reikk (534266) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961701)

Another one got caught today, it's all over the papers. "Teenager
Arrested in Computer Crime Scandal", "Hacker Arrested after Bank Tampering"...

Damn kids. They're all alike.

But did you, in your three-piece psychology and 1950's technobrain,
ever take a look behind the eyes of the hacker? Did you ever wonder what
made him tick, what forces shaped him, what may have molded him?

I am a hacker, enter my world...

Mine is a world that begins with school... I'm smarter than most of
the other kids, this crap they teach us bores me...

Damn underachiever. They're all alike.

I'm in junior high or high school. I've listened to teachers explain
for the fifteenth time how to reduce a fraction. I understand it. "No, Ms.
Smith, I didn't show my work. I did it in my head..."

Damn kid. Probably copied it. They're all alike.

I made a discovery today. I found a computer. Wait a second, this is
cool. It does what I want it to. If it makes a mistake, it's because I
screwed it up. Not because it doesn't like me...

Or feels threatened by me...
Or thinks I'm a smart ass...
Or doesn't like teaching and shouldn't be here...

Damn kid. All he does is play games. They're all alike.

And then it happened... a door opened to a world... rushing through
the phone line like heroin through an addict's veins, an electronic pulse is
sent out, a refuge from the day-to-day incompetencies is sought... a board is

"This is it... this is where I belong..."

I know everyone here... even if I've never met them, never talked to
them, may never hear from them again... I know you all...

Damn kid. Tying up the phone line again. They're all alike...

You bet your ass we're all alike... we've been spoon-fed baby food at
school when we hungered for steak... the bits of meat that you did let slip
through were pre-chewed and tasteless. We've been dominated by sadists, or
ignored by the apathetic. The few that had something to teach found us will-
ing pupils, but those few are like drops of water in the desert.

This is our world now... the world of the electron and the switch, the
beauty of the baud. We make use of a service already existing without paying
for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and
you call us criminals. We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek
after knowledge... and you call us criminals. We exist without skin color,
without nationality, without religious bias... and you call us criminals.
You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us
and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals.

Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is
that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like.
My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me

I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual,
but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike.

My greatest achievement (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27961715)

My greatest achievement is studying and upholding the thoughts of Chairman Mao Tse-Tung! He is the brilliant red sun in my heart! Long live Chairman Mao Tse-Tung and his Thoughts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A thosand red revolutionary salutes to Mao Tse Tung and Marshal Lin Piao! Slashdot is pure dog-fart!

Speed runs, sequence breaking, etc (5, Informative)

Haoie (1277294) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961721)

Great fun to watch and to do. Although these usuall aren't "official achievements", as they tend to exploit the game in some way or another.

A good classic example: Super Metroid

But, of course... (3, Funny)

djupedal (584558) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961747)

Because as we know, there are achieved achievements; there are things we know we achieved.

We also know there are unachievable achievements; that is to say we know there are some achievements we can not achieve. But there are also unachieved achievements -- the achievements we don't know we didn't achieve.

This is why... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27961767)

Which is why this is the greatest game of all time

Re:This is why... (1)

Sensible Clod (771142) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962171)

I can't believe I actually played that game...and got some achievements in it...

...all 100...

I hate you.

Re:This is why... (4, Informative)

julesh (229690) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962401)

Why hate the AC? The game's mentioned in TFA... oh, right.

City of Heroes Badges (4, Informative)

Bonker (243350) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961783)

City of Heroes did the whole 'Accomplishments' thing fairly early on. []

Some of my favorites are

'Untouchable' - Defeat 200 mobster bosses.
'Speeder' and 'Speed Demon' - Navigate the Christmas-only ski slopes in Pocket D (twitch-haters LOATHE these since they cannot be ground.)
'Transmogrified' - Save the Terra Volta nuclear reactor core from melting down while it's being attacked by waves of enemies (Skyraiders, Freaks, or Rikti aliens). This is, incidentally, also the trial which earns players the right to respecify their powers.

Two of the hardest to achieve are 'Master at Arms' and 'Demolitionist'. They require the player to participate in 10 or more 3-6 group raids to plant bombs on the crashed Rikti Mothership and then to fight the Rikti Master at Arms, U'kon G'rai (You con grey).

Re:City of Heroes Badges (1)

orkybash (1013349) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961835)

Smash Brothers Melee, I believe, had trophies that also functioned as achievements before the idea got big. Or did the achievement-based trophies only show up in Brawl and I'm remembering incorrectly?

Re:City of Heroes Badges (1)

Bonker (243350) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961887)

They showed up in the first SSB. The number was greatly increased in Melee and then again in Brawl, adding 'stickers' to the mix.

Re:City of Heroes Badges (4, Informative)

Vintermann (400722) | more than 5 years ago | (#27963591)

Nethack has had "achievements" for a long time. Atheist conduct (never pray), Illiterate conduct (never read scrolls or write on the ground), weaponless conduct (never hit with a wielded weapon), pacifist conduct (complete the game without killing a single enemy personally!)

I remember an old arcade game by Taito, don't remember it's name, it was a spaceship-style shooter where you would pick up stars to buy powerups. Just for fun, I once tried to see how far I could get without firing a shot. To my surprise, when I finally lost a life, I was sent a long, long way ahead in the game. One of the few "secrets" I've found all by myself.

So voluntary challenges aren't new, even if tracking them between sessions is.

Re:City of Heroes Badges (1)

Vintermann (400722) | more than 5 years ago | (#27964725)

I found out the game's name, by the way. It was called "Slap fight", which sounded pretty cool to a kid not yet knowing a word of English.

Re:City of Heroes Badges (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27966015)

The cheat for Slap Fight that I knew of was that at the start you flew to the top-right of the screen and let yourself be killed, on your next life your ship would have full power-ups.

Re:City of Heroes Badges (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27966401)

I found out the game's name, by the way. It was called "Slap fight", which sounded pretty cool to a kid not yet knowing a word of English.

But hilariously dumb to the kids that did.

Re:City of Heroes Badges (1)

Beetle B. (516615) | more than 5 years ago | (#27965957)

Isn't almost all of Nethack achievement points? I don't play to get the Amulet. I just play to kill, kill, and kill. Shouldn't that be considered playing for achievement rather than the whole of the game?

And then, you have achievements within achievements, like the ones you mention.

Re:City of Heroes Badges (1)

DaedylusSL (1145293) | more than 5 years ago | (#27970891)

Nethack's description of their achievements (actually called "conduct") is what makes them worthwhile. From the Nethack Guidebook: "certain players seek to challenge themselves by imposing restrictions on the way they play the game". When I play games that have achievements, I typically play pretty much all the way through once, the way the game is designed to be played. Then I go back (replay value? in a modern game? unheard of!) and start playing for achievements that seem like they could be fun. To use a slightly older game for example: Portal takes almost no time to beat. And in the process you get 3 out of about 20 achievements. So trying to get the others gave me something to do in a game that I had already "completed". That was fun and made it more worth the money I paid for it.

There are a lot of things in recent games that I don't like (unlockables, downloadable content, and pay-to-play come quickly to mind) but achievements are actually pretty cool.

Re:City of Heroes Badges (1)

AndersOSU (873247) | more than 5 years ago | (#27971423)

wow - as if nethack wasn't masochistic enough with "normal" game play.

2^6 (4, Funny)

electrosoccertux (874415) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961813)

The Slashdot Achievement "Days read in a row" is killing me. If I'm out of town for a weekend I find myself worrying if I'll have access to, and time to hop onto the internet and log in to Slashdot to keep my winning streak rolling.

Weighing the consequences, I've decided to just play it safe and live with mom in the basement. Don't have to have a job to pay rent that way.

I've hit 2^6 so far, anybody have better? (Be honest please, no scrips that check for you every day. Yes that's a good idea, wish I had done it myself before giving the idea away like this, heh heh ;)

Re:2^6 (1)

Clarious (1177725) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962119)

I got 2^6 too, but I wonder if it is correct. 2^6=64, but the achievement system was implemented in April 1st, that mean we can get maximum 45 days read in a row. Well, maybe they have already counted before that.

Re:2^6 (1)

Artifex (18308) | more than 5 years ago | (#27963403)

I got 2^6 too, but I wonder if it is correct. 2^6=64, but the achievement system was implemented in April 1st, that mean we can get maximum 45 days read in a row. Well, maybe they have already counted before that.

I think it definitely counts from before it was implemented. I have 2^4 or something comments rated 5 as one of my achievements, with the date set in March. I haven't posted much in a while, so that has to be from before. And yet, I don't think it's from all time, because the site seems to only list my posts back to 2007.

Re:2^6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27964357)

A you aren't a subscriber, you cannot see all your old posts. If you want to see all your posts, you have to fork over USD 5 (per month that you want to continue to see all your old posts). There is a FAQ about it somewhere.

Great. (1)

Seakip18 (1106315) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961849)

I had just planned a nice weekend before reading that Dead Rising achievement.

Seriously though, this is just legitimizing some of the more well known tricks we used to show off to our friends, plus allowing developers to sneak a joke or two our way.

Who else doesn't remember being able to shoot a grenade or mine in golden eye to kill your opponent?

and we come full circle (5, Interesting)

panthroman (1415081) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961863)

Old arcade games had points. Your goal was to get on the high score list, so everyone could see how good you were. You weren't meant to actually win games. Heck, if you get too far in Pac-Man, it crashes.

When console gaming got big, people didn't care too much about points. It wasn't as fun -- nobody was there to see it. So points went out of fashion, and the goal was instead to win. Super Mario 3 for NES had points, but who cared? It was beatable, and we wanted to win.

Now that consoles are networked, gamers can have public recognition again. And back to points we go...

Atari 2600 Achievements (1)

servognome (738846) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962195)

I remember earning patches [] when you got over a certain high score and sent in a picture. I got the Laserblast one, which was pretty easy once you figured out the right pattern given the poor AI.

Achievements are like pop music (2, Insightful)

Tokerat (150341) | more than 5 years ago | (#27961869)

They could be really good, but so far they've mostly been nothing but flashy and uncreative.

My Achievement Points (0)

Penguinshit (591885) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962041)

The size and location of my house
The emblem on my car
The labels on my wine collection
The title on my business card
The loyalty of my friends

And most important

The number of times per day I make my wife smile.

Video games simply don't enter that equation no matter how much I may enjoy them.

Re:My Achievement Points (3, Funny)

Thundarr Trollgrim (847077) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962459)

I guess the last two make up for the negative points of the first four at least ;)

Re:My Achievement Points (1)

Penguinshit (591885) | more than 5 years ago | (#27972507)

I grant your point but those were just a few of the REAL WORLD, _tangible_, marks I could roll of my head. The last two are the most important but also the most difficult to show which is why the first four were listed.

But it is clearly easier to crack "American Psycho" jokes so fire away...

Re:My Achievement Points (1)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962529)

Good for you, man!

Hey, I just did eight 25 dmg pounces in a row~! :D I wish there was an achievement for that!

Re:My Achievement Points (1)

cluke (30394) | more than 5 years ago | (#27967281)

Patrick Bateman, is that you?

Re:My Achievement Points (1)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#27969461)

The labels on my wine collection

Congratulations, you overpay for wine.

Buy cheap wine, drink it, and have fun with your friends, and stop pondering about whether you can detect the subtleties of your expensive wine.

Re:My Achievement Points (1)

Penguinshit (591885) | more than 5 years ago | (#27972367)

Bzzzt! Price != quality. Spend some time actually trying a wide variety of crafted wine (there's more than just "red"/"white"/"pink") as opposed to swilling sweetened alcohol and get back to me.

The irony of your pretentiousness is overwhelming.

This article is bad and you should feel as such! (1)

Raijin Z (685276) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962279)

For liking it!

All of those achievements are BUTTS, I say! Where are the WEIRD ones? Like the 1 point achievement for beating Bullet Witch on HELL difficulty? Or the 0 point achievement you get for falling down a damn manhole five times in a row in TMNT Arcade?

And what kind of buttass list has multiple achievements from THE SAME GAME in it? Piss and piffle!

Holy mixed metaphors Batman! (4, Funny)

Andy Smith (55346) | more than 5 years ago | (#27962961)

they spell out in large numbers

Shurely shome mishtake?

Re:Holy mixed metaphors Batman! (1)

Artifex (18308) | more than 5 years ago | (#27963449)

they spell out in large numbers

Shurely shome mishtake?

Have you never typed out words on a calculator by typing numbers and turning it upside down?

You kids.

Re:Holy mixed metaphors Batman! (1)

discord5 (798235) | more than 5 years ago | (#27964353)

Have you never typed out words on a calculator by typing numbers and turning it upside down?

Yeah, somehow we always ended up with 5318008, ensued by juvenile snickering. At some point the word "boobies" stopped being funny, and we got over it.

Best WoW achievment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27963155)

There's an achievement in WoW called Insane in the Membrane. Completing it lets you put "the Insane" after your character's name for all to see.

It is completed by grinding for reputation to become exalted with several different factions. This takes 100+ hours and thousands of gold pieces. The insane part of it comes into play because half of the factions are completely useless, and the only reason anyone would want reputation with them is only for this achievement.

The other half of the factions? They are neutral factions that most people probably already have a lot of reputation with. However they will become fully hated to you if you go for the achievement because you need to kill them over and over to become good with one of the useless ones. So you get to start reputation grinding all over with them, only from fully hated instead of neutral!

Re:Best WoW achievment (1)

Artifex (18308) | more than 5 years ago | (#27963441)

I'm thinking of going for it as soon as I finish world-wide Loremaster. Because I'll want to stay at least revered with Bloodsail (Insane only needs honored, I think) if I can't stay exalted, and I won't be able to do that if I still have to turn in quests to goblins after.

Achievements beyond Xbox/Windows Live (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 5 years ago | (#27963531)

You can tell that the Achievements thing has worked out pretty well for MS, because of the number of other companies out there who have frantically tried to copy it. People talk about motion-sensing controls, but it may prove to be achievements that are the defining legacy of this console generation.

Unfortunately, I'm not 100% sure I like this. I don't much mind achievements on the 360. If I buy a full-sized game (as opposed to an XBLA game) I know that there are 1000 achievement points to be unlocked in there. However, I also know that I don't particularly need to bother about these if I don't want to and, because I've read reviews, I know that I am buying a full-sized game that there is a good chance I will like.

I'm far more worried by the direction taken by Blizzard with the achievements they've added to World of Warcraft. Achievements were added to WoW just before the latest expansion was released and there can be absolutely no denying that they have been used as a substitute for including proper content. It's clear that Blizzard wants to run down the amount of resource it devotes to keeping WoW updated and achievements are their quick fix of choice. Even with the recently released Ulduar, the amount of raid content we have in Wrath of the Lich King is vastly inferior to what was around in the Burning Crusade pretty much from launch. But then, why have a team of developers spend months creating new dungeons, when you can have the office temp sit down for an hour or two and think up some stupid and time-consuming ways of getting people to recycle the same old content.

So yeah... achievements as currently impelemented by MS are at worst harmless and at best quite a fun little distraction (and this often depends on how they're implemented in a particular game). However, I can see the little dollar signs flashing in eyes across the industry, as people wake up to the potential for using achievements as a means of increasing profit margins while screwing over all but the most guillible of customers.

YASD (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27963555)

I once made it to the Wizard's lair, but then stupidly choked myself to death on a large corpse.

Only half right... (1)

TFer_Atvar (857303) | more than 5 years ago | (#27963791)

The thing about Xbox Live achievements isn't that you were provided with nifty little goals for doing specific things. It's that you then received acknowledgment after you did them and you could show off your achievement. That networking, allowing other people to see what you've done, is the real success story. I find myself looking at friends' gamerscores and thinking, "hey, I need to catch up with him." It's a lot more than merely notifying you that you've done something.

"Like them or not" (1)

Crumplecorn (904797) | more than 5 years ago | (#27963997)

If you need to feel like you are achieving something or progressing in some Progress Quest by playing video games, good for you.

I wish Sony would let me turn off trophy announcements on the PS3 though. I play games for their own sake, not for e-peen points, and this idiocy interferes with my gaming.

Since they made them mandatory, I have terrible images of playing Ico 3 when it comes out and having the PS3's OS dinging away at me during the game.

Maybe I got something wrong, but... (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 5 years ago | (#27964295)

I play a game. Why do I play a game? Because it's fun. Else, I would refuse it the title 'game'. A game rewards me with having a good time.

Now a game has to convince me to play it by giving me a carrot on a stick. So playing the game is not enough reward, I need to get a dangling carrot to keep playing?

Not a good game. If the fun the game gives me is not enough reward, why exactly should I be playing it? To get a reward for doing something I would probably not consider important enough for myself that I do it on my own already, without getting something arbitrary for it?

Last time I checked that was called 'work'.

Re:Maybe I got something wrong, but... (1)

Zekasu (1059298) | more than 5 years ago | (#27965731)

I can't help but think you're making a reference to vanilla World of Warcraft.

I agree, however. After going through tiers 1-8.5, the game's more like a second job than a game anymore. Being in a guild for progression, being the first to down Yogg-Saron in a 25-man raid is nice, but it's definitely not worth it. I mean, there's a push to be better and out-damage everyone else, but sometimes... Sometimes, I wish I could have had that lost sleep rather than that new weapon.

Re:Maybe I got something wrong, but... (1)

Spellvexit (1039042) | more than 5 years ago | (#27967687)

Interestingly, WoW achievements have now become a method for evaluating and excluding other players -- something I hadn't anticipated in my naivete. I had always thought these achievements were there to motivate players to play more, but now they're actually resulting in some players not getting to play in various raid groups who demand that they have an achievement demonstrating their "competency" in whatever instance they're planning to raid. I'm sure that some guilds also check certain achievements as a prerequisite to join!

I don't know if this even constitutes 'work.' It reminds me of spending a year at a community college so you can get a certification that then allows you to work. : )

Re:Maybe I got something wrong, but... (1)

Rakarra (112805) | more than 5 years ago | (#27972869)

Those guild recruiters are absolute fools, and you'd be better off without them. I know a number of terribad players who tagged along once with a very high-end guild to get an achievement for the immortal (no one in the raid dies, ever) or to down such-and-such boss in so many minutes.

The guilds who actually think things through know better than to rely on this.

Worst thing to happen to gaming in years. (1)

Millennium (2451) | more than 5 years ago | (#27964983)

Achievements are a terrible thing to add to a game: a mere gimmick to get people to overplay their games to death, get bored as quickly as possible, and run out to buy more games for MOAR POINTZ. They harm quality by taking developer effort away from things that matter, and they provide a cover for killing real replay value: an unprofitable thing that has been a thorn in developers' sides for years.

Shame on Microsoft for introducing this scourge, however brilliantly it may have worked for its attach rates. Shame on Sony for copying them. Shame on Nintendo for its flirtation with the concept, even if they have stayed away from them in the core system.

As a very serious gamer (1)

Bobtree (105901) | more than 5 years ago | (#27966217)

I really don't care about achievements/trophies/etc at all. At best they are a list of interesting things to try in a game and a way to compare progress in specific titles. At worst they are marketing and false competition.

Importantly, they are not cost-free to developers, and I would always rather have better gameplay or more content or a higher level of polish than a masturbatory checklist.

Goals alone aren't gameplay, and fall in the category of pointless collecting.

Being a completionist is the surest route to ruining your enjoyment of a game.

Re:As a very serious gamer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#27972093)

Being a completionist is the surest route to ruining your enjoyment of a game.

Maybe for you, but I can't count the number of games I've strived to complete every single thing in - most of them before achievements became mainstream - to extend my enjoyment of the game. Hitting max level. Getting ultimate weapons and armor. Bonus dungeons, sidequests, optional bosses. None of these things are required in order to beat the game, or enjoy the game...but people do them anyway. It gives a sense of accomplishment on top of the fun of playing the game. Icing on a cake. What's the harm in adding a little 'ding' and a number?

And really, if people want to play games just for achievements...who really cares? They can do what they want with their money. I think an expensive car, food processors, and owning more than 3 pairs of shoes (tennis, dress, and sandals) are complete wastes of money - doesnt stop companies from making them, or people from buying them.

If one person likes something, there are five people telling them how stupid they are for liking it.

Gives structure to unstructured games like GTA (1)

darpo (5213) | more than 5 years ago | (#27966671)

For example, in Left 4 Dead, there's no deep plotline or character development, but there are loads of achievements to master. When I hopped on the server last night, I looked through which bronze medals I had yet to achieve in the 16 Survival mode maps. Achievements are nice -- they give direction and structure to games that otherwise would lack direction.
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