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Google Tricycles To Map Footpaths For Street View

kdawson posted more than 4 years ago | from the hope-they-are-well-insured dept.

Google 274

CNETNate writes "To advance its Street View service this summer, Google is poised to unleash the unstoppable power of human legs. Google will deploy pedal-powered tricycles — the company calls them 'Google Trikes' — mounted with 360 degree Street View cameras to map areas inaccessible by its fleet of Street View cars." The article indicates that the trikes will first see use in the UK, to map out public walking paths, but one anonymous commenter said: "This must be bogus — you are not allowed to cycle on public footpaths in the UK, I can't believe Google would have overlooked such a fundamental fact. Not to mention that the vehicle pictured wouldn't fit down most paths." PC World features the trikes in Rome.

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274 comments

Good job kdawson! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28014343)

"The article indicates that the trikes will first see use in the UK"

He then goes on to link to pictures of them actually being used in Rome. Did the UK annex Rome?

Fortunately (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28014359)

I am the greatest and my turds smell like GOOGLE because forever I am to be found in the pants of a gnom?>>>D>SD>S>DS>DSLKJ)(#*U#*)WJUB&98y gfye8ihb488yi.

Pretty soon ... (5, Funny)

jsnipy (913480) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014397)

Soon there will be "Google Stuff in Your House" where a half dozen guys dressed head to toe in black with head mounted cameras will rifle through your belongings, cabinets, and drawers. So when you loose your cars keys, just Google it!

Re:Pretty soon ... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28014473)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/261905722_d2912c0465.jpg It's already been done!

Re:Pretty soon ... (5, Funny)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014715)

I'm not sure you thought your cunning plan all the way through.

Me: Honey, where did I put my car keys?
Her: I don't know dear, just fucking google it.
Me: OK, according to Google they are on the keyhook next to the door... WTF? They aren't there!
Her: Oh, that's right, dear, the Googol Housecrawling Spiders of Doom haven't been through since last Tuesday. That's where they were then.

Me: Fucking useless GoogleHouse app. At least they helpfully recorded the combination when I unlocked my safe.

Re:Pretty soon ... (4, Funny)

noidentity (188756) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015169)

Me: OK, according to Google they are on the keyhook next to the door... WTF? They aren't there!
Her: Oh, that's right, dear, the Googol Housecrawling Spiders of Doom haven't been through since last Tuesday. That's where they were then.
Me: Fucking useless GoogleHouse app.[...]

There's always Google's cached copy of them...

Re:Pretty soon ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28014949)

hey!
That's a good idea!

Re:Pretty soon ... (4, Funny)

noidentity (188756) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015119)

So when you loose your cars keys, just Google it!

Wouldn't tightening them be more appropriate?

Little cameras grow... (2, Funny)

MikeOtl67of (1503531) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014403)

I wonder if I should not make a space for a camera on my child's helmet... Any offer?

Re:Little cameras grow... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28014469)

I wonder if I should not make a space for a camera on my child's helmet... Any offer?

Any offer??? What the fuck does that mean? Did you mean "any offers," or are you looking for only one offer?

LOL

Re:Little cameras grow... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28014775)

I wonder if I should not make a space for a camera on my child's helmet... Any offer?

Any offer??? What the fuck does that mean? Did you mean "any offers," or are you looking for only one offer?

LOL

I wish I were simple enough to get so excited over tiny mistakes!

Re:Little cameras grow... (1)

xaxa (988988) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015773)

I wonder why the guy in the picture is even wearing a helmet. It's difficult to fall off a tricycle.

google + scuba = ? (4, Interesting)

skathe (1504519) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014411)

gooba? scoogle? scooble?

just attach cameras to aquatic lifeforms and let us swim the depths of the oceans from our computers... no chance of being stabbed in the heart by a stingray, either!

Re:google + scuba = ? (4, Funny)

geobeck (924637) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015243)

just attach cameras to aquatic lifeforms and let us swim the depths of the oceans from our computers...

Oh great. Sharks with frickin' Google cams.

Re:google + scuba = prior art (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28015729)

Didn't I just read something about attaching cameras to turtles in the Galapagos...

LIDAR? (3, Interesting)

CraftyJack (1031736) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014417)

It looks like the mast has 3 lidar eyes on it. How does StreetView use lidar?

Re:LIDAR? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28014501)

By attaching it to their masts.

Re:LIDAR? (1)

CXI (46706) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014559)

Hey, if you are mapping, why not grab all the data up front you might need later? Think about it. The cars use LIDAR too.

Where no tricycle can go... (1, Funny)

ATestR (1060586) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014457)

"This must be bogus -- you are not allowed to cycle on public footpaths in the UK

For UK, they will actually be deploying Google Beanie-Caps

Idea! There better be... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28014465)

A Twitter update on this so we can all track that guy and his location and moon the camera appropriately.

I can just imagine (3, Insightful)

KingPin27 (1290730) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014537)

With as much animosity as google street views has already been met with
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/02/1731231
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/13/0055234
I can just imagine what these guys riding around on bikes will meet up with - Can anyone say moving target?

Re:I can just imagine (4, Funny)

pjt33 (739471) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015175)

I imagine they'll have plenty of evidence to help the police identify their assailants.

Re:I can just imagine (2, Funny)

geobeck (924637) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015323)

They see me roll on
My Google Trike
And I know in my heart
They think I'm ridin' nerdy

Just saw one of these.... (5, Interesting)

One Louder (595430) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014593)

I was a Seaworld in San Diego a few weeks back and one of these was driving around the various pathways taking shots for Street View. Haven't seen the data go live yet, though.

Re:Just saw one of these.... (1)

arb phd slp (1144717) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015419)

I saw a Google bicycle months ago on the Penn State campus. IIRC it was an ordinary bike towing a trailer that was tricked out with that same type of camera.

What, wheels? (1)

SEWilco (27983) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014601)

This is the 21st Century. Where's my flying StreetView camera?

Re:What, wheels? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28014885)

In orbit I should think.

Re:What, wheels? (1)

supernova_hq (1014429) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015541)

Actually, I believe they use aircraft. It's much cheaper than deploying or even renting a satellite. Not to mention much more maneuverable.

Forget street view, how about decent maps (5, Insightful)

randomchicagomac (809764) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014605)

As a bicyclist, I'd love it if google had decent maps of off-street bike paths, such that I could use google maps' normal direction-finding feature with these. I've lived in lots of cities with numerous such paths, and they're usually out of the way and hard to find if you don't already know that they're there. It would be great to have a feature that a) lets me find them, and b) tells me exactly how far out of my way I'd need to go for the added safety/pleasantness of using them.

Re:Forget street view, how about decent maps (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28015047)

It would be great to have a feature that a) lets me find them, and b) tells me exactly how far out of my way I'd need to go for the added safety/pleasantness of using them.

And hookers.

Re:Forget street view, how about decent maps (2, Insightful)

julian67 (1022593) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015289)

Unfortunately the Google trike is far to wide to access many UK cycle paths. Many have a small barrier which allows bicycles (though forces rider to dismount) but prevents small vehicles and tricycles and any but the smallest motorcycles from passing. Also many cycle paths are in any case so ridiculously narrow that a substantial trike has no chance. Urban paths often share traffic light controlled crossings with footpaths and these again are often too narrow for a trike. Then there are the cycle paths which repeatedly alternate the rider from the road to the sidewalk, what to speak of the paths hosting street signs, trees, litter bins etc etc. Even on a normally loaded touring cycle, or a bike with a small trailer or child carrier some UK cycle paths are a problem. A trike is going to be hopeless. Whatever the purpose of the Google trike in the UK it clearly isn't going to work well for footpaths (illegal) or cycle paths. And most white roads, green lanes, unmetalled roads etc are essentially muddy, rocky or overgrown trails requiring an unencumbered mountain bike with a fit, skilled rider, or a vehicle. My guess is that it will give Google access to the many urban streets which only allow taxis, public buses, emergency vehicles, and bicycles during the day. This is extremely common.

Re:Forget street view, how about decent maps (2, Informative)

xaxa (988988) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015665)

My guess is that it will give Google access to the many urban streets which only allow taxis, public buses, emergency vehicles, and bicycles during the day. This is extremely common.

I think you're correct there. For instance, most of Oxford Street (London) isn't on Streetview because it's buses/taxis/cycles only.
They can also do public squares, pedestrian/cycling-only streets etc. They can even do no-cycling areas if they wheel the tricycle.

Re:Forget street view, how about decent maps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28015711)

Whatever the purpose of the Google trike in the UK it clearly isn't going to work well for footpaths (illegal)

Like that ever gets enforced.

Although I was once stopped by a cop and when I asked why he pointed to a sign. The sign said no motor vehicles (it's the one that looks like an Evel Knievel stunt). But then Nottingham always was full of morons.

Re:Forget street view, how about decent maps (2, Funny)

saintlupus (227599) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015799)

You actually got stopped by the Sheriff of Nottingham? That's awesome.

There's a few businesses and the like... (4, Interesting)

wowbagger (69688) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014641)

Actually, extending StreetView to things off the street makes sense to me, for certain values of "things off the street" - there's a few businesses and the like I'd like to see mapped.

Example: I'd like to see my local zoo [scz.org] or one of our local museums [oldcowtown.org] set up so that I could use my GPS to find my way around - and being able to see some of the exhibits would be a bonus.

If *I* ran those places, I'd be begging Google to scan my site!

Re:There's a few businesses and the like... (1)

smooth wombat (796938) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014877)

so that I could use my GPS to find my way around - and being able to see some of the exhibits would be a bonus.

So you want someone else to take pictures of your zoo and a museum so you can use an electronic device to find your way around said places?

Huh, and here I thought the zoo [scz.org] and museum [oldcowtown.org] had already thought of ways to let people navigate the exhibits.

Unless you meant you want to view these places on your small monitor instead of physically visiting them and getting all the sensory feedback that would entail.

Re:There's a few businesses and the like... (1)

wowbagger (69688) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015239)

And when will Macrobee integrate GPS into PDF in a fashion my N800 can use to show me exactly where I am, or where I took a wrong turn and missed the animal exhibit I was looking for?

Also, there is the idea of "Do I want to visit this?" - do YOU know if you'd want to visit the Sedgwick County Zoo? How can you tell if it is a bunch of concrete cages with sickly animals or a well-run zoo with really good exhibits? After all, NO zoo is going to say on their website "We SUCK!" Being able to take a quick spin around BEFORE you go there can mean the difference between spending your limited vacation time on good sites or spending your time saying "well, this wasn't worth the trip."

Re:There's a few businesses and the like... (4, Funny)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015029)

I always get lost walking the many trails at the local nudist colony -- do you think Google could come out and map these for me?

to much chain slack (1)

RichMan (8097) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014647)

That would be a killer to try and ride with that much chain slack.

Likely the tension wheels are just temporarily missing.

It is the small details in photos (especially the street views) that cause the problems. The overall intent does not matter.

where does it all end... (1)

owlnation (858981) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014667)

One day -- likely -- Google will have an anatomical map of the human body online. You know what this means...?

Google anal probe. Maybe they could call it the g-Oatse?

Re:where does it all end... (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015751)

The could call it iNtestine. I suppose that would probably annoy Apple. Oh dear, how sad, never mind!

Not just paths through the woods (1)

carn1fex (613593) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014765)

There are plenty of places that would be interesting to map that are closed to traffic but open to bikes. Many European cities have city-centers that are just so.

An April Fools Day joke in May? (3, Funny)

BiloxiGeek (872377) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014811)

History has shown that the human leg is an often untapped behemoth of energy, having in the past powered generators, submarines and, of course, deep space hair dryers aboard Red Dwarf.

Next thing you know they'll be reporting that Lister has been hired to peddle the thing around London. They tried to hire Cat but he was afraid being outside in the summer heat and humidity would ruin his fantastically perfect hairdo.

It's not legs, it's people! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28014821)

Google is missing a big opportunity here.

Granted that there's an eco-friendly message being delivered with pedal powered mobility. But the real problem is not putting a non-polluting vehicle on smaller paths, but putting a human directed camera system on smaller paths. This is a perfect job for wheelchair bound people.

So you may need a different vehicle design besides a tricycle and you'll need a small, electric motor. You'll still be running vehicles with a low carbon footprint. But you'll be able to put to work a huge group disabled people who normally wouldn't have outdoor opportunities like this. And I'm sure you'll find lots of tech-savvy folks in the mix too.

One could even argue that not designing the project to allow disabled individuals to perform the work is job discrimination.

Mod Parent Up (1)

hplus (1310833) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015779)

This is a great idea, provided that the contraption could be easily towed behind a wheelchair.

Mapjack.com already does this (4, Informative)

lullabud (679893) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014875)

Regardless of whether Google is going to use Tricycles, they're not the first to market with this feature. http://www.mapjack.com/ [mapjack.com] already has many many trails mapped out, things that bicycles may even have a hard time on.

STREETVIEW HISTORY (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28014891)

Google totally dumped the Immersive Media VW BUG data footage and the company itself from Street View when the camera quality and function would not perform as advertized. Immersive Media then used the Google name to run up their own stock price and cash in for the Canadian executives. Google refused to even speak to the Immersive Media CEO after repeated lies and the stock games came to light in June 2007. Between that and Canadian Privacy problems this company is now trying to dig for clean coal or something? their stock is in the toilet. You can download all the docs yourself online: http://tinyurl.com/googlestreetdocs [tinyurl.com]

What is this good for? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28014925)

Seriously

I'm waiting for... (1)

jim_v2000 (818799) | more than 4 years ago | (#28014981)

Google House View. This would be a map of the interior of people's houses made by people wearing backpacks with cameras mounted on top. This will be part of the new Google search that will help you locate items in your home. Google "where are my keys" and get back "Your keys are on the dresser." with a map pointing to your dresser.

Google Bike Path, Foot Trail, and River would be.. (3, Funny)

PinchDuck (199974) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015035)

awesome. To the best of my knowledge, GPS's will show rivers, but if you are paddling on one, it won't give you a great ETA. Google Rivers, on the other hand, could record average current speed and all the bends in the river to a genuine geocoded object instead of a dumb jpeg. That would be pretty sweet.

Rights Do Not Scale Up (1, Insightful)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015085)

I am within my rights to take a picture on a public street and then upload it to the internet. I am within my rights to publish my views, on anything, freely on the internet. I am within my rights to worship or not worship freely as I please. I am free to cast my votes for representatives in the various assemblies that pass and enact the laws of the land. So is everyone else.

But rights do not, and should not scale upwards so easily as they scale across society.

Google's ultimate objective, and they're danm well able to achieve it, is to map, index and photograph the entire world and put it all online for everyone to gawk at. One company. Worldwide coverage. Of everyone, and everything. No recourse. No appeal. It's clear that in the process of inductively scaling up the rights and freedoms we all enjoy to such gargantuan proportions, something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.

I am free to own a newspaper or pamphlet and to use it to express my opinions. Must it then follow that I should be free, if I had the money for it, to own as many newspapers as I like in order to disseminate my opinions?

I am free to worship in any religion that I please and ask others to follow me. Does that mean that I should be free to amass as large a host of followers as I like and have my will of all of them?

I am free to vote for my political representatives. Does this mean that I should be free to vote on every single piece of legislation they propose, or to propose and vote on legislation I or others demand at a whim?

You can't inductively keep scaling rights up and up. Eventually you will end up with highly [wikipedia.org], undesirable [vatican.va], outcomes [bbc.co.uk]. Google Street View is just such an example. I don't want my house, garden, neighborhood and face plastered all over the web for everyone to gawk at. You don't want it. Nobody wants it.

Yet we are all to accept the slow inductive argument that at each camera click and image upload, Google is always well within its rights. Yet the final outcome, colossal in its arrogance is repugnant to almost everyone involved. The inductive argument is invalid. No one should be allowed to do what Google are doing. Least of all a private corporation.

Rights do not scale up. The bigger you are, the less rights you should be entitled to. And the scope of your rights should be similarly curtailed. Allowing unfettered freedoms to the richest, largest and most powerful will only lead to them becoming overmighty, and we will all suffer for it.

Re:Rights Do Not Scale Up (2, Informative)

horigath (649078) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015281)

I don't want my house, garden, neighborhood and face plastered all over the web for everyone to gawk at. You don't want it. Nobody wants it.

I kinda want it.

Proposal? (1)

XanC (644172) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015287)

Do you have any concrete proposal, or are you just whining?

Any "cure" to this would be far worse than the disease, I guarantee.

Re:Rights Do Not Scale Up (3, Insightful)

Drakin020 (980931) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015303)

The bigger you are, the less rights you should be entitled to.

I'm sorry...What!?

That has to be the most retarded comment I've ever heard. No one should be limited to rights just because of how "Big" they are.

Re:Rights Do Not Scale Up (1)

SomeWhiteGuy (920943) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015391)

I don't mean this to offend, just putting my 2 cents out there...

The bigger you are, the less rights you should be entitled to. And the scope of your rights should be similarly curtailed.

So you're basically saying that there should be a subset of people who do not have the same rights as you, just because they have a grander vision?

Least of all a private

They are public...Google [google.com]

...and we will all suffer for it.

I don't see how we will suffer for having a repository for information. I agree that it may be slightly annoying that we can't do anything in public without a camera in our faces... but it's public. I don't go outside with the expectation of not being seen.

Re:Rights Do Not Scale Up (5, Insightful)

evanbd (210358) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015579)

I think rights should scale up. I really don't see a problem with that.

Oh, I see, you seem to have drunk the kool-aid and accepted that corporations are people who have rights. That's where the fault lies in all your examples, not with any inductive scaling.

All that said... in this particular example, I do want my house on Google. Or, to be specific, I want other people's houses on Google -- many times I've made use of the Street View pictures to see what my destination will look like. And I can see other people wanting the same when I give them directions to my house. And I don't mind the pictures being up, and I certainly don't intend to take up a hypocritical position on the matter.

Segway (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015145)

Why they didn't buy a bunch of Segways for it, is beyond me.

Re:Segway (2, Insightful)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015339)

Why they didn't buy a bunch of Segways for it, is beyond me.

Trikes are cheaper to buy than Segways which start at $2,400.

Trikes are cheaper to maintain than Segways.

Trikes are easier to maintain than Segways since all you need is a regular bike mechanic that can be found in any good bike store.

Segways require electrical power just to stand up, that kind of power costs money. Trikes don't use any power when standing up because they've got three wheels.

Segways require electrical power to operate, trikes don't and hence have a lower carbon footprint.

Segways have to be charged up, trikes don't.

Trikes are more efficient.

Trikes do pretty much the same job for a lot less money.

There's no enough room on a Segway to hold the equipment, there is enough room on a trike.

Riding a trike is a lot healthier than driving a Segway because it uses human power.

Want any more?

Re:Segway (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015793)

Join two Segways together, one behind the other, with a platform in between to put stuff on.

Nah, it's dumb, forget I said that.

      H. Ford.

Re:Segway (1)

hplus (1310833) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015673)

Really? I'd love to spend the summer pedaling one of these around all of the bike paths around here. Can't say the same about a segway.

Google's armada (1)

Animats (122034) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015181)

Next, Google autonomous aircraft. Big ones for overall views, little ones for street views. Small boats for waterways and coastlines.

Then, Google Humans. Face pictures of everybody on the planet.

Laugh now. Someday they'll be in charge.

Muggings.... (1)

HuckleCom (690630) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015223)

I can imagine the headlines now - people riding those bikes will get beat up and ripped off of all that shiny equipment.$$$

footpaths and the UK law... (1)

pr100 (653298) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015237)

The legal situation depends on the kind of footpath we're talking about. A Public Footpath is a specific kind of path that pedestrians have a legally enforcable right to use. It is not a criminal offence to cycle on a public footpath, but it is a civil offence against the landowner (i.e. the landowner can require you to leave, and pay for any damage you cause).

Normally it's a criminal offence to cycle on pavements ("sidewalks" to leftpondians) adjacent to roads, but not elsewhere. However it's fairly unenforced and in fact the Royal Mail more or less depend on postmen cycling on pavements to deliver the post.

what for? (1)

sckeener (137243) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015265)

Street views of addresses I understand. I find it helpful to have a picture of where I'm trying to find.

Why would someone want this service? Are their vendors on the path like in World of Warcraft that google wants to map? I can see google maps giving directions like 20 yards exit the tree stump on the right.

Re:what for? (1)

hplus (1310833) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015747)

Your comment about the tree stump is spot-on, actually. The paths around here (the ones not parallel to a road, at least) have a number of paved entryways that you are supposed to use. It is often easy (and faster) to exit/enter the trail at a non-designated point, but you can't tell where this will be possible with just a map.

Mechanical Masterpiece? (1)

HockeyPuck (141947) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015421)

The so-called Google Trike, which the company describes "a mechanical masterpiece comprising 3 bicycle wheels...

Mechanical masterpiece? Let's see:

      Disc Brakes on the front? Not needed unless you plan on taking this thing in the rain.
      Suspension: Yes in the front, but glaringly missing in the rear, which you'd want for stability.
      Safety: Didn't see any reflectors on it
      Convenience: Not even a water bottle holder. I guess they could hand out a Google Camelbak.

Google - OK! Gov't = Big Brother (3, Insightful)

HockeyPuck (141947) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015459)

Why is it ok in the public eye for google to do this, but when the gov't does this it's BigBrother and 1984 all over again?

Re:Google - OK! Gov't = Big Brother (2, Insightful)

Murpster (1274988) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015739)

It's not OK in my opinion. Google is turning pretty Big Brothery with shit like this and the cell phone location thing and other stupidness. If I ever see one of these or their cars, I'll make sure they don't get any images they can use haha. Screw Google. Time for them to go the way of Enron.

cylob walks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28015695)

cylob already did this and it has a soundtrack:
http://cylob.blogspot.com/search?q=walk

Language Barrier (1)

njfuzzy (734116) | more than 4 years ago | (#28015767)

From what I remember living there a few years back, Foot Path is a term as likely to mean "sidewalk" or "alleyway" as it is to mean "walking path in the wilderness". I suspect this will be used for both rural and urban walking areas, and that it will be allowed even in places where cycles aren't. (Even if it's just a "turn a blind eye" sort of thing.)
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"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
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