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US Army Will Upgrade To Windows Vista

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the your-tax-dollars-at-work dept.

The Military 374

MojoKid writes "While many organizations are preparing for an upgrade to Windows 7, the US Army is upgrading to Windows Vista. The upgrade will include getting rid of all the Office 2003 programs and installing Office 2007 in its place, and is scheduled for a Dec. 31 completion date. Half the Army's computers (they have 744,000 desktop units) have Office 2007 so far, and 13 percent are on Vista, which was released in January 2007. Windows 7 is supposed to launch before year's end, so the Army will be fully on Vista sometime after Microsoft's next-generation OS is already launched."

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Doh! (5, Insightful)

Un pobre guey (593801) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061147)

Surely it must have occurred to at least a single person at the Pentagon to upgrade to Windows 7 and not to Vista?

Re:Doh! (5, Funny)

santax (1541065) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061209)

I am sure you are right, but I would keep very quiet too if the last good idea I had was to seek WMD's in a foreign country.

Re:Doh! (4, Insightful)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061283)

As it will be a year before it is evaluated, tested, patched, and approved, they have time... Look how long it took Vista to get stable.

Re:Doh! (4, Funny)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061675)

Look how long it took Vista to get stable.

Who said it was stable yet?

Re:Doh! (1)

Warlord88 (1065794) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061911)

My uptime is currently a little more than 15 days. Activities include browsing, gaming, running Matlab (although small codes), maintaining a FTP server, watching movies/anime in HD format, et cetera.

Not sure about the army, but it is (now) stable enough for my purposes, especially on an AMD Athlon 3000+ based system.

Re:Doh! (2, Interesting)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061907)

They will discover that Software may become a national security risk

Re:Doh! (3, Funny)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061341)

Yeah, but have you ever had lunch with those MS sales reps?

How many soldiers do you think would say no to Vista if they got a handjob under the table while eating filet mignon out of the deal?

Re:Doh! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061449)

You should see what recruitment at MS is like :)

Re:Doh! (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061427)

If they had some other need to upgrade now, then that wouldn't be an option. They aren't likely to put a fresh OS on their systems. They ahve probably been testing it for 2 years.

moderators are cracked (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061631)

Your comment is not off topic, it's the only topic. WTF.

Re:Doh! (2, Insightful)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061815)

I would suspect that over some nice luncheons and dinners that the US Army would have been "persuaded" to upgrade to Vista and not 7. This kind of crap happens all the time in government agencies that don't have to balance their funding sheets.

In large corporations things are vetted and validated mostly*, but for things like the Army it's all about "chain-o-command". This seems to breed corruption from the highest levels down, unfortunately the soldiers are the ones who bare the brunt of the issues - just look at the joke that the "Land Warrior" project is.

No doubt the person who made the decisions has been bought by MS or has a vested interest in MS.

Free vista! (5, Funny)

x2A (858210) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061149)

Cool, am gonna keep an eye out for harddrives on ebay now, might just come with a free copy of vista installed!

Re:Free vista! (1, Informative)

chromozone (847904) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061203)

You might even get some missile secrets on the drives. Our secret of course..

"Computer hard drive sold on eBay 'had details of top secret U.S. missile defence system"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1178239/Computer-hard-drive-sold-eBay-details-secret-U-S-missile-defence-system.html [dailymail.co.uk]

Re:Free vista! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061725)

Whoosh!

Re:Free vista! (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061735)

You got the joke. You get 5 points.

So is this an army joke or a vista joke? (1, Funny)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061151)

Someone keep an eye out at -1 for the trolls, I think they're the only way we'll ever figure out who this reflects on more.

Re:yes! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061217)

All sarcasm aside, I think this a perfect example of Military Intelligence! ;)

Re:yes! (3, Funny)

Jurily (900488) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061813)

All sarcasm aside, I think this a perfect example of Military Intelligence! ;)

The Russians use Linux, so they figured they'll be incompatible to avoid spying.

Re:yes! (2, Informative)

Warlord88 (1065794) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061939)

The Russians use Linux

You mean their brand new, very own OS [slashdot.org] , right?

Re:yes! (2, Funny)

russlar (1122455) | more than 5 years ago | (#28062093)

The Russians use Linux

In Soviet Russia, kernel compiles you?

Army using Windows Vista (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061155)

That's why, when the job has to get done, you send in the seals. :)

Re:Army using Windows Vista (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061783)

Christ almighty... It's penguins. We send in penguins around here.

Obelix was right. (3, Funny)

santax (1541065) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061159)

Sono Pazzi Questi Americani.

Re:Obelix was right. (4, Informative)

NoobixCube (1133473) | more than 5 years ago | (#28062001)

All of the Latin I know, I learned from Asterix, so for those who know even less than I do (there must be at least one), SPQR is the Senate and People of Rome, SPQA in this case is of course the Senate and People of America. What santax is referring to is Obelix's often repeated phrase of "these Romans are crazy", and applying it to Americans instead. Perhaps now he won't be modded Offtopic :)

You can't wait forever.. (5, Insightful)

cbreaker (561297) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061181)

If you always wait for the next release of that software, that car, or that style shoes you like you'll never end up with anything.

You need to draw a line somewhere. Windows Vista is a good move because it's been available for some time and they've had enough time to test it out with whatever software they might use. XP is getting more difficult with new machines, and if you want to stay on a Microsoft platform it's the way to go.

Windows 7 isn't so much different than Vista in terms of the operating system itself, and it's more similar to XP in interface than Windows 7.

I don't understand what the issue is here. I guess some people don't understand how IT works in organizations with more than a few hundred users.

Re:You can't wait forever.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061253)

You need to draw a line somewhere. Windows Vista is a good move because it's been available for some time and they've had enough time to test it out with whatever software they might use.

Stop using reason and logic! They should take a bite out of the Apple, leave the garden of Windows and embrace Darwin! So sayeth Jobs.

Re:You can't wait forever.. (4, Funny)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061259)

You need to draw a line somewhere.

Yes, and the Army seems to have drawn the line with a Ford Pinto.

Re:You can't wait forever.. (4, Insightful)

Maniacal (12626) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061315)

Agreed. I work for a company with 17,000 employees and it can take a while to 1) get something tested and approved 2) get something rolled out. When you are talking about an OS there is even more involved - Hundreds of apps to test for compatibility, security and group policies, compatibility with old hardware, etc.

Add to that the usual military BS. I did a 4 year stint in the Navy and if I remember correctly it takes 7 signatures just to go on vacation. I can't imagine how many signatures you'd need to roll an OS to 744,000 desktops (Geez that's a huge number. Can that be right?)

Aside from the time it takes to get things done in a huge organization you have the simple fact that Windows 7 is brand new. I wouldn't suggest my mom roll out W7 before SP1. Certainly the friggin military wouldn't do that either.

Re:You can't wait forever.. (2, Informative)

krbvroc1 (725200) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061519)

Absolutely right, I'm not sure why anyone would think adopting bleeding edge on a huge rollout would be a good idea.

Re:You can't wait forever.. (1, Informative)

Tihstae (86842) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061927)

Agreed. I work for a company with 17,000 employees and it can take a while to 1) get something tested and approved 2) get something rolled out. When you are talking about an OS there is even more involved - Hundreds of apps to test for compatibility, security and group policies, compatibility with old hardware, etc.

Add to that the usual military BS. I did a 4 year stint in the Navy and if I remember correctly it takes 7 signatures just to go on vacation. I can't imagine how many signatures you'd need to roll an OS to 744,000 desktops (Geez that's a huge number. Can that be right?)

Aside from the time it takes to get things done in a huge organization you have the simple fact that Windows 7 is brand new. I wouldn't suggest my mom roll out W7 before SP1. Certainly the friggin military wouldn't do that either.

Half the time I don't use mod points and now that there is something that needs modded up, I don't have any.

This is exactly right. This planning probably started about the time Vista was released. For fuck's sake, does anybody think an organization is just going to press a magic button and upgrade everything and it magically work with every application too?

Re:You can't wait forever.. (5, Funny)

A beautiful mind (821714) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061359)

If you always wait for the next design of that shipware, that car, or that style shoes you like you'll never end up with anything.

You need to draw a line somewhere. The Titanic is a good move because it's been available for some time and they've had enough time to test it out with whatever seas they might use. The Olympic is getting more difficult with new cruise tours, and if you want to stay on a White Star Line platform it's the way to go.

The Queen Victoria isn't so much different than The Titanic in terms of the hull design itself, and it's more similar to The Olympic in interface than The Queen Victoria.

I don't understand what the issue is here. I guess some people don't understand how oceanic shipping works in organizations with more than a few hundred users.

Re:You can't wait forever.. (0, Troll)

LinuxOverWindows (1549895) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061417)

Windows 7 is a horrible release of the problem and bug ridden OS. On the list of problems, the new User Interface is way to over blown. The only interface that works is a low key Gnome or Xfce based look, there is nothing good about using a desktop that requires visual effects to be called an update.

Driver signing is another retarded idea, it's a much better idea to let anyone install anything on a system, not just a signed Driver or a registered peace of software.

Windows 7 Blue screens, I thought they might be on top of basic memory errors but seriously are we surprised.

Windows 7 == Fail

Thanks
LinuxOverWindows

Re:You can't wait forever.. (3, Insightful)

rzekson (990139) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061665)

Actually, it is more like a newer version of Windows Vista/2008, with two years worth of of bug fixes and optimizations to the core system. The interface does seem to be noticeably more responsive, perhaps even more so than Windows 2008 used as a workstation, which has already been a significant improvement over Vista. The RC version released a month ago has been very stable, I dare say more so than the RC versions of Windows 2008. From my perspective, your rant seems totally disconnected from reality.

Re:You can't wait forever.. (3, Interesting)

Coach Buzzcut (1560519) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061689)

This is such an incredibly bad idea. To stick to a less-granular must-"keep moving"-just-because mindset is massively boneheaded considering how many things you aren't safe assuming these days with new software.

To try and justify that by saying new hardware is getting more difficult to get working with XP, that begs questioning with the following points:

1. Most hardware manufacturers without their heads up their asses are still writing stable drivers for XP and even NT/2000 (not quite that different anyway).

2. The trend of "new" is not limited to software anymore, and we're starting to see it in some places with hardware design that is layers upon layers of infantile "standards" that just came out and don't have any solid roots to legacy artitecture at all. Not that breaking ties with legacy is bad, but it is when support only lies with vista and above, and starts to completely destroy the ideas that things such as fixed resources operated upon. These things ALWAYS worked. Too much automation is what led to the magical reboot as a viable solution in the first place.

I was a Microsoft supporter until Vista came out. I would defend them at every turn through the days of 2000 which I still use. When XP arrived it took me quite a while to warm up to it until it was patched hundreds of times and stronger hardware showed up. However, it is still built on a solid base of usability and structure that anyone who isn't a help desk terrorist idiot appreciates.

Now, I've been pissed off to the point of diving head first into linux (Debian right now) and building a desktop at work with enough tools that I don't even need Windows on a workstation for an average week's worth of IT tasks. Just to prove a point.

Microsoft advertises with the phrase "people ready"...but this makes absolutely no sense when the same amount of brainpower it takes to mind all the bugs, patches, hangups and general arthritic-jointed nature of all of its software could be used better building something open-source. Having said that you'd come out with the same functionality, and quite a bit happier, retaining most of your hair too.

The entire idea of new just because needs to be re-evaluated and completely trashed in some cases. The companies today with the same names of yesterday are sometimes not even the same companies at all. It's not necessarily the companies you want to hang onto, which people do the most.... it's the "old" (read: actually working) idealisms that were great because you got a real return for actually reading and thinking.

This is making a stretch, but it proves a point: when I set a jumper on a card, I KNOW WHAT FUCKING IRQ IT'S GOING TO HAVE.

Re:You can't wait forever.. (1)

rzekson (990139) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061759)

Windows XP is no longer being actively developed, and Microsoft cuts support for it in a few years. Upgrading to a supported and actively developed version of the OS seems like a good idea to me.

Re:You can't wait forever.. (1)

Duhavid (677874) | more than 5 years ago | (#28062011)

"If you always wait for the next release of that software, that car, or that style shoes you like you'll never end up with anything."

If you always upgrade, even when what you have is sufficient, you will never have any money. And those are my tax dollars being spent.

Re:You can't wait forever.. (1)

cbreaker (561297) | more than 5 years ago | (#28062111)

So let's say they wait. They'll need the official release of Windows 7 before they can start testing. Then they do that, for maybe a year or so. They design a training program to help users with the new system, and plan for deployment. Maybe another 6 months to a year.

That brings them awfully close to the support cut-off of Windows XP, and for what? What will Windows 7 really provide? Faster bootup times? Who cares. If all their software works on Vista, then it's not compatibility.

If they don't upgrade in time, they'll end up paying out the ass for special extended support for XP. Tell me that's better use of "my tax dollars."

Re:You can't wait forever.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28062073)

XP is getting more difficult with new machines

Citation needed.

Re:You can't wait forever.. (1)

cbreaker (561297) | more than 5 years ago | (#28062085)

Sorry, I only take requests for people that are logged in.

Don't ever install anything ms before sp2 (2, Insightful)

alen (225700) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061189)

Vista just hit sp2

Re:Don't ever install anything ms before sp2 (1)

pbhj (607776) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061879)

Vista just hit sp2

But the SP3 will be out soon, they're calling it Windows 7 ...

US Army Will Upgrade To Windows Vista (-1, Troll)

s0litaire (1205168) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061215)

When this was announced a million "Script Kiddies" and "Virus writers" around the world simultaneously creamed themselves with glee....

Re:US Army Will Upgrade To Windows Vista (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061241)

I guess you haven't read up on the security features included in Vista? Vista is much more secure than XP, and Mac OS X, and on par with more secure versions of linux. But I guess trolling with nothing more than Security Through Obscurity on your side is still fun.

Re:US Army Will Upgrade To Windows Vista (1)

s0litaire (1205168) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061441)

lol! I'm on Linux :P If I was Trolling I'd go Anon :P Oh! you're Anon!.. therefore troll away :P

Re:US Army Will Upgrade To Windows Vista (4, Interesting)

NoobixCube (1133473) | more than 5 years ago | (#28062043)

The NT kernel has many great features that put it on a par with Unix in terms of security and functionality. As yet, no operating system using the NT kernel has actually used those features. Even UAC is a bizarre hack of a permissive userland, and doesn't use the kernel's security features. It's about as secure as Windows 98, thanks to Microsoft's butchery of the userland in the name of backwards compatibility.

Vista in .. (0, Troll)

anonymousNR (1254032) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061237)

National Security out.

Re:Vista in .. (3, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061429)

Exactly my thoughts.

Why in in the name of all that should be secure would the military be using windows of ANY Flavor.

This situation just cries out for SELinux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selinux [wikipedia.org] which at least has a chance of penetration resistance.

Even if we are talking about pay clerks and supply desk drones, why take this risk and this cost at this time when secure platforms are available for free?

Of course it we are talking strategic or combat systems then we have an severe dereliction of duty issue here, and someone needs a little time out in the brig.

(And, no, don't come around posting about how Windows can be hardened and made secure. That's the "Humvee as Combat Vehicle" argument all over again. Why does the Army need to lean every lesson twice!)

Re:Vista in .. (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061769)

Twice?

Re:Vista in .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28062027)

The MAC functionality that SELinux brings to the table is in OS X to some degree (I see OS X using it to protect data on the Time Machine drive from alteration), but I'd like to see this not just present in all operating systems, but used.

This is probably a pipe dream of mine, but it would be nice for an app that is about to be installed to present a manifest of permissions requested by the OS. Not just one list, but three -- a minimum list of what it will take to even run the program, privs it needs normally, and a maximum permission list (as some utilities never ever need to see root/Administrator access in their life unless connecting to another program.) The more granular the permissions, the better, so if a word processor is trying to access a spreadsheet document, it would get slapped down unless the user or another program previously allowed this to happen. This will limit damage in case of a compromised app. For example, if a Web browser gets compromised, it wouldn't be able to access keystrokes sent to other applications, or add settings to a user's .profile or HKCU Registry.

Re:Vista in .. (1)

afabbro (33948) | more than 5 years ago | (#28062067)

I would wager that 90%+ of US Army x86 computer systems are not in the field. They're sitting on purchasing agent's desks, human resources desks, etc. They use Windows because they need use Office and various industry-specific applications that are on Windows.

They likely have legacy apps that they've been using since before Linux existed. (Not the original DOS versions, of course - whatever the vendor's latest, which probably runs on Windows).

The US Army isn't any different than a Fortune 500 company...and 99.9% of those have Windows on the desktop (I'm assuming Apple is the exception ;-)

Re:Vista in .. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28062089)

Windows can be hardened and made secure. Just because you're too stupid to figure out how doesn't mean it can't be done. I am part of a shop that manages a 12,000 computer network, about 10% XP now, 70% Vista, the rest are various Windows server versions running under VMWare ESX. Not one *nix distro or flavor. We had a grand total of 4 malware infections last year, all because of 'privileged users' that we allowed to install software and who stupidly ran untrusted exes. Bottom line, computer security is about policy, configuration, and educating your users, not whether you run *nix or Windows.

The US Air Force rollout (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061243)

At the Air Force clinic I work at, all the workstations are XP, and Office 2007 was pushed on to every computer last January. 2003 worked great, 2007 drags ass. Everyone's been having problems with templates breaking, macros requiring endless confirmations, and just plain trying to find where the hell everything is in that damned ribbon. Not fun.

The only Vista computers I've seen were down at the Education and Training center for test-taking. I can't imagine why they replaced them, the test program we use could fit comfortably on a Windows 98 box (and I think that's what it was originally programmed for). Nevertheless, the powers that be have decided that a monochromatic visual basic simple-text-and-button testing application requires dual core Vista machines with 2 gigs of ram each.

Your tax dollars at work.

Re:The US Air Force rollout (1)

idiotnot (302133) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061521)

Yeah, MS hasn't gotten enough criticism over Office 2007. Vista doesn't bother me. Once I learned where everything is, I've gotten used to it. Only bluescreen in about 3 years of use was due to bad RAM.

I have Office 2K7 at work, and hate it with a passion. The new document formats were needed, and I've seen several cases where I've saved a couple of megabytes on files (XP/2K/2K3 format versus ODF).

But yesterday, with two documents open, Work 2K7 was eating over 500M on my machine.

If I'm lucky, I can get about six hours of use out of Outlook before it becomes unusable due to memory leaks.

And I hate the ribbon with an unending passion

And they made it very difficult to assign keystrokes...I used to easily map a shortcut for "Paste Unformatted." Had to record a VB macro to do it in 2K7.

Re:The US Air Force rollout (3, Interesting)

trawg (308495) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061745)

Wow.. my experience with Office is totally different. I used OOo exclusively for the last 2-3 years until I got Office 2K7 at work. After fiddling with it a bit I almost immediately fell in love with it; I found it so easy to use (the ribbon just clicks for me for everything).

I was sure I'd still use OOo for everything but MS Word and Excel load faster and I find muchmuchmuch more intuitive to use when compared to OOo. Don't get me wrong; I hate myself for it - I love OOo and am all about open data formats, but really when it comes to Getting Shit Done, MS Office works better for me (even writing this I sound like an MS shill and assume modding down is in my immediate future, but if you read my post history you'll see I'm not).

I am farrrr from an Office power-user and I find Office 2k7 the easiest thing for me to get the most out of at a high level.

Re: Outlook - I run it non-stop from the moment my computer boots to the moment I need to reboot for a Windows update (usually a week :), with no problems at all due to memory leaks or performance issues. I'm running it connected to Zimbra so it's using the Outlook plugin to talk to the Zimbra server stuff; maybe it sucks more under Exchange.

Re:The US Air Force rollout (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 5 years ago | (#28062059)

The problem with Office 2007 wasn't the fact that the ribbon was so bad, it was the fact there was no other way to use it BUT with the ribbon. At least have a "compatibility mode" option that basically switches it back to 2003 UI-wise. After spending a year with Office 2007 I found it at least halfway decent, however during that year before I mastered it, it took me ages to find things and to actually do things that I easily could in OOo or 2003. I'm sure the ribbon is easier for new users, but for everyone who has been using Office since '97 or before, changing things without an option to revert them isn't a smart move in any software, let alone a mission-critical app like Office is for many businesses when a free version that does 98% of what you need with almost no learning curve.

Re:The US Air Force rollout (2, Informative)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061975)

And they made it very difficult to assign keystrokes...I used to easily map a shortcut for "Paste Unformatted." Had to record a VB macro to do it in 2K7.

Not to nitpick, but it's trivially easy to assign hotkeys. The problem is that there is no pre-existing "Paste Unformatted" command - a problem which existed in Office '03 as well.

Re:The US Air Force rollout (1)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 5 years ago | (#28062077)

Your tax dollars at work.

If you think that's bad then hang on because before before the Dems are through there will be a whole lot more of your tax dollars "at work".

no surprise (5, Insightful)

smash (1351) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061261)

... despite the naysayers....

Windows 7 basically = vista + a heap of untested code and new features.

Vista has been out for 3 years now and is a "known quantity". SP2 is out soon, and many people live by the policy with MS software of "wait for SP2".

The military deciding to roll out Windows 7 now would be rather foolish. They need to migrate OFF XP if they want continued support in 2010, so really, its either vista or Linux, etc. Like it or not, Vista is the path of least resistance.

Besides, vista isn't as bad as the reputation anyway... in the 3 years I've run it, none of the problems have been insurmountable, and there are plenty of benefits over XP. No one cares that it may be 5% slower at foo task when you're running it on hardware that is 500% faster than the gear you replaced.

Re:no surprise (2, Informative)

idiotnot (302133) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061371)

Mod parent up.

Also, the Army is paying attention; both XP and Office 2K3 are in extended support. Microsoft's policy is that they will provide security updates.....unless the problem is going to cost them too much to fix.

For the most part, Microsoft has been pretty good about it, but they didn't fix the RPC vulnerability while NT4 was in extended support -- too hard.

Furthermore, if MS is serious about upgrading every Vista license to Windows 7, the Army really doesn't really lose anything. In fact, they probably save money because Windows 7 is supposed to be more expensive.

Re:no surprise (1)

pbhj (607776) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061909)

Mod parent up.

Also, the Army is paying attention; both XP and Office 2K3 are in extended support. Microsoft's policy is that they will provide security updates.....unless the problem is going to cost them too much to fix.

Can't the army just requisition the code on the basis of national security and fix the bug themselves ...?

I'd have thought too that even MS would be willing to extend support for a client spending 10s of millions of USD? They must have a couple of people who can code somewhere amongst all the marketeers and patent lawyers?

Re:no surprise (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061419)

Yup, 5% might not seem as too much of a slowdown... except in extremely tight, time critical applications, and you know, the army doesn't have any of those so it should be fine.

Re:no surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061505)

Vista has been performance than XP anyway with SP1, so this is not an issue.

Re:no surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061881)

What the fuck kind of time critical scenario requires using Word or Excel? They're used by desk jockeys.

Re:no surprise (1)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061959)

Besides, vista isn't as bad as the reputation anyway... in the 3 years I've run it, none of the problems have been insurmountable, and there are plenty of benefits over XP. No one cares that it may be 5% slower at foo task when you're running it on hardware that is 500% faster than the gear you replaced.

Out of interest, I was looking at hardware upgrades last night... thinking about moving from an ageing Pentium D and Quadro FX 570 to current hardware. Based on PassMark scores, best value seemed to be ~400% increase both CPU and Graphics, with ~700% increase very close behind. These increases are fairly cheap and very easy, so there's really no point some folks bitching about how slow Vista or similar is when running an OS designed for current systems on yesterday's hardware.

Haha (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061299)

In other news: Cyber-attacks on high profile U.S. Military computers on the rise....

Bail out (1, Troll)

CSHARP123 (904951) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061301)

Somebody has to bailout Vista. I hope, Army is taking it with pride.

US Army will be owned by Everyone (-1, Troll)

requiemnoise (1550609) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061319)

This is funny. lol.

I like vista (5, Interesting)

alienunknown (1279178) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061327)

There, I said it. And I'm probably going to lose karma for this post as everyone seems to hate vista here but oh well.

I know there are going to be dozens (if not hundreds) of vista jokes about this article but I still don't know why everyone hates vista so much.

This is going to sound really weird, and I am not making this up. I'm a Linux user (kubuntu at the moment, used to use slackware and I'm thinking of installing fedora) and I have an old mac that I use regularly too. I wasn't too fond of XP, and I'm not a huge fan of microsoft either because of their dirty business tactics. I got Vista (with sp1) cheap because I'm a uni student. The first thing I did before buying Vista was to make sure that all the parts I had were compatible, and luckily they were as I only just built the computer. Anyway, so I installed vista expecting there to be a million problems, I had a preconceived negative opinion of vista and I was actually quite surprised. Its stable, fast (on my computer, at least) and I'm quite enjoying using it.

However, I never used Vista before SP1 and I didn't have the driver problems. And I guess because I don't use XP that I wasn't missing any of XP's features.

Anyway, I guess my experience isn't the usual experience. Sure, I'm not going to make Vista my main machine (I love kubuntu and os x too much to do that :)) but I don't regret installing Vista.

MOD PARENT UP (1)

russlar (1122455) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061609)

If only because it takes huge, brass balls to say on /. that you like Vista.

Re:MOD PARENT UP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061955)

Yeah, that was Funny

No wonder you like Vista. You're a Linux user. (1)

Gary W. Longsine (124661) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061653)

Oooh! Ow! Ouch! Yikes! Run away! Run away!

Doesn't the US Army care about Security (1)

LinuxOverWindows (1549895) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061365)

Why doesn't the US army use a hardened OS instead of a Desktop OS. I'm not saying Windows does make a decent Desktop OS but seriously I think the US army might be alittle more on top of this problem.

what about using a Hardened Linux OS or Hardened Unix OS, wouldn't that be much much more secure. I don't know I'm not an expert but seriously I think they would want to step up here.

Thanks
LinuxOverWindows

Re:Doesn't the US Army care about Security (3, Insightful)

idiotnot (302133) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061437)

On mission-critical systems, they do. But Windows is good enough for probably 95% of what people in the Army do with computers -- spreadsheets, e-mail, presentations, documents.

Just like any other organization. Do you really care that the billing department in your doctor's office is using Word and Excel?

Re:Doesn't the US Army care about Security (0, Troll)

LinuxOverWindows (1549895) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061515)

if I was the one buying the Office software I would, why not use Open Office, it's free, support better and more file formats. Besides the worst thing that happens by using a *Nix system in the army is more proficient computer users and more security.

Re:Doesn't the US Army care about Security (3, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061659)

Because there in some quarters there is the cult-like mentality and most of the rest of people don't know any better. Most office drones with little skill and ambition never used any word processing program before Office and they don't have the will to learn anything.

Really... a huge amount of Office use is simply because of ignorance, sloth, and inertia (as well as Microsoft Zombies that happen to be working in the IT department and management). There are are hundreds of programs that do what Office in a better and cheaper way, it's just it get past the masses of users who don't know any better and who don't have the curiosity to try anything new, even if it eventually make their life easier.

Re:Doesn't the US Army care about Security (1)

ibbie (647332) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061785)

if I was the one buying the Office software I would, why not use Open Office, it's free, support better and more file formats.

Amen to that. The company I work for stopped purchasing Office licenses, for this very reason. I also have to add that Spicebird [spicebird.com] , while still in beta, appears far more friendly than any Outlook client I've used - especially budget friendly. But then, of course, this is the US military we're talking about. In my lifetime, at least, they've never been known for their thriftiness.

Re:Doesn't the US Army care about Security (1)

alen (225700) | more than 5 years ago | (#28062045)

and from personal experience, the military would shut down without powerpoint. you literally cannot go to war without powerpoint. what would you use during Command and Staff every day?

Don't be fooled! (5, Funny)

bensafrickingenius (828123) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061383)

This is just Obama's plan to drastically reduce the size of the military!! Would YOU stay if you had to work with Office 2007 AND Vista? Think about it.

Yet another example of..... (-1, Troll)

ogdenk (712300) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061443)

military intelligence. The biggest oxymoron in human history.

What was that new-fangled hip young lingo? Epic Fail?

At least the upgrade to win 7 will be easier (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061465)

At least they have upgraded from RIS to WDS, that will make the upgrade to win 7 much easier. And they have gotten used to MS's new and interesting licensing schemes. Both have been a big hurdle for us. Those factors actually played a big role in us skipping Vista for our users.

The mcirosoft office plauge (2, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061473)

The small organization that I work for as Tech director is still standardized at Office 2000, and that was a rather recent development as pleaded them to move up a bit because so much of my support time was used to maintain various office aps of a variety of versions. Office is a total nightmare. It has to be the most labor intensive application for techs ever devised and it's only used out of ignorance.

They also had hissy fits when I tried to get them to use Openoffice as a trial (which we really can't use because Mail Merge is so entrenched in the culture and OO just doesn't do it well, at least in version 2. And even if it does Mail Merge well now we can't go to OO now because of the hissy fits and people refusing to learn new stuff).

Office is a plague on the business culture in the U.S. We have people using it because "they've never seen anyone use anything else." We have people that think they can make super complex documents in Word that should be done in InDesign or Tex and then find that the layout totally blows up when they change 3 characters. We have people using Powerpoint to create 200 image slideshows. Microsoft has somehow managed to make everyone believe that Office is an all-in-one tool out of a load of garbage. It's amazing.

I can't imagine something that has hurt the computing world more that Microsoft Office (though as this is slashdot I am sure people will post them now).

The day is coming when I will have more people using Vista or 7 (64 bit to get more than 4GB of memory for other big tasks) and I have to update all the office apps and face question after question from people who can't read a help file or look up a question with Google. I don't envy these Air Force folks one tiny bit.

I guess that's a rant...

Missing quotation marks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061477)

US Army Will "Upgrade" To Windows Vista

Yeah, like 7 isn't Vista rebranded with a new task (3, Insightful)

fateswarm (590255) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061533)

Yeah, like 7 isn't Vista rebranded with a new taskbar.

Even all drivers are compatible.

Re:Yeah, like 7 isn't Vista rebranded with a new t (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061643)

SPTD driver didn't.

"Upgrade" (2, Funny)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061623)

I don't think "upgrade" means what they think it means.

Government Contractors (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061627)

The first rule of Government contracting is YOU DO NOT GIVE A FUCK. The second rule of Government contracting is YOU-DO-NOT-GIVE-A-FUCK. Third rule, gouge them for as much money as you can. Fourth, Do a piss poor job, and the fifth and final rule of Government contracting, if it's your first time hiring one, you have to bend over.

Absurd (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061663)

The stench of rancid pork wafts lazily from the DoD. Somebody needs to be fired with grave prejudice (ie friends of their great grand children can't be caught within a mile of government).

Why ... why ... why ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061685)

Why ... why ... why ...

Switch to an open source product, Ubuntu lts, use openoffice for you office needs, and save the tax payers a bundle of money.

In the process, generate a new IT re-education process within the government to train people on Linux and just be rid of Windows ...

Re:Why ... why ... why ... (3, Interesting)

couchslug (175151) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061861)

"In the process, generate a new IT re-education process within the government to train people on Linux and just be rid of Windows ..."

That is workable, just as it was when we switched from green-screen terminals to Windows in the USAF.

Your tax dollars at work (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061695)

I can't believe this is what we pay for

Army Intelligence... (0, Troll)

Hercules Peanut (540188) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061733)

...need I say more?

Save Windows Vista! (3, Funny)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061775)

No CHEESE-EATING SURRENDER OS for OUR boys! They know the MILITARY MIGHT of VISTA is what the world needs! FREEDOM ISN'T FREE and VISTA IS FREEDOOM!

Join SAVE VISTA [facebook.com] on Facebook! (Original blog post [today.com] .) We want ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE to tell Microsoft to abandon their Windows 7 foolishness and go back to Vista! We have 89 so far. Only 99,911 to go!

Like Chrysler, like Hummer, like Edsel - "Vista" is a name that will be remembered as the greatest operating system in Microsoft's history.

Just Say "No" To Seven -

SAVE VISTA!

You have pulled the trigger... (5, Funny)

quonsar (61695) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061817)

...this could be dangerous. Are you sure you wish to pull the trigger?

Taxpayers money being well spent (5, Interesting)

jocknerd (29758) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061823)

I should know. I work for a city government and we are getting ready to bring in Sharepoint. No business plan, no requirements documents like are needed for the small web apps I write. We're bringing Sharepoint in because the CIO is a sheep just like 95% of the other CIO's out there. If they see others doing it, they're going to follow suit. Meanwhile, due to budget constraints, our libraries will be open fewer hours. Yep, we've got our priorities in order.

Everyone knows (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28061839)

our defense budget is too big to not do upgrades like this...

Cyberwar (4, Funny)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061841)

The 1st step to cripple enemy networks is convince them that something unsecure is the most secure system of the planet. That is really a subtle plan, but surely will work.

Military QA (5, Informative)

sanosuke001 (640243) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061851)

The place I work at (Air Force) runs a different copy of Vista than you can actually buy. It has to be thoroughly tested and OK'd by the Air Force before they are even allowed to install it on any machines on the network.

The Army probably does the same. Rolling out Vista now is like they started rolling it out on release date. They couldn't have rolled it out any sooner if they wanted to. Same for Windows 7. The earliest they'll see it ok'd for use is probably two years from release. Why people make a big deal out of it? Probably because they're ignorant and want to make a fuss.

Government waste (5, Insightful)

pkbarbiedoll (851110) | more than 5 years ago | (#28061987)

Ubuntu and Open Office would save this country millions of dollars.

I already knew this... (1)

Schnoogs (1087081) | more than 5 years ago | (#28062025)

I saw Terminator 4 today and Skynet's displays were all running Vista.
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