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Safari 4's Messy Trail

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the if-disk-space-were-infinite-and-free dept.

Privacy 200

Signum Ignitum writes "Safari 4 comes with a slew of cool new features, but extensive data generation combined with poor cleanup make for a data trail that's a privacy nightmare. Hidden files with screenshots of your history, files that point back to Web pages you've visited and cleared from your history, and thousands of XML files that track the changes in the pages in your Top Sites can add up to gigabytes of information you didn't know was kept about you." Some of Safari's bloat is kept in quite obscure locations; it takes a fairly knowledgeable user to find it and clean it up. You can avoid some of the worst of it by disabling Top Sites.

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Advert co-incidence (3, Interesting)

ZERO1ZERO (948669) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069115)

Is it only I that see ths advert for 'Clean you Mac' in the panel beside the summary?

(frosty piss)

Re:Advert co-incidence (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069123)

haha
I've some "StopZilla anti-spyware" spam, myself
man, Slashdot looks like shit with Adblock disabled

Re:Advert co-incidence (2, Informative)

icannotthinkofaname (1480543) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070439)

The Internet looks like shit with Adblock disabled

FTFY

Re:Advert co-incidence (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069277)

I see it too. I'm tempted, but will it work on my IBM?

Re:Advert co-incidence (1)

TheSHAD0W (258774) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069279)

No coincidence, it's keywords.

Re:Advert co-incidence (4, Funny)

Silas is back (765580) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069909)

Keywords:
Did, not, get, joke

Re:Advert co-incidence (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069465)

Is it only I that see ths advert for 'Clean you Mac' in the panel beside the summary?

(frosty piss)

Advertising wouldn't really work if it went by coincidence. Thanks to the advent of keywords it makes perfect sense for the advert to show up.

I see an advert for anti spyware which is probably triggered by the talk about privacy.

Oh that Apple (5, Funny)

wampus (1932) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069119)

I for one like it because it is so innovative and it fits in well with my hip, young lifestyle.

Re:Oh that Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069145)

Heh. "Young" as a lifestyle.

Aging.. That's so passé....

Re:Oh that Apple (-1, Flamebait)

Mr. DOS (1276020) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070245)

"Yes, I saw your new hip! It looks great!"

      --- Mr. DOS

I for one... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069127)

welcome our new Safari 4 overlords

Safari does clean up after itself. (5, Interesting)

ozzmosis (99513) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069155)

There is a "Empty Cache" button under the "Safari" menu.

Before "Empty Cache"
ahze:/private/var/folders/zz/zzzivhrRnAmviuee++31gU+-Ev6/-Caches-/com.apple.Safari ahze$ du -sh
  129M .

After "Empty Cache"
ahze:/private/var/folders/zz/zzzivhrRnAmviuee++31gU+-Ev6/-Caches-/com.apple.Safari ahze$ du -sh
  32K .

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069301)

Yes but that last 32k is the EVIL 32k

Mod parent up! (0)

HishamMuhammad (553916) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069399)

It's been a while since anything made me laugh in /. :)

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069417)

Well no. It would be evil if it were the bytes of microsoft or sony. Irrelevant either way because everyone knows macs are powered by fairy dust.

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (5, Funny)

monktus (742861) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069639)

32k of evil ought to be good enough for anybody.

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (2, Funny)

belrick (31159) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070279)

Yes but that last 32k is the EVIL 32k

You mean each of the evil bits left over from the 129 MB of data?

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (4, Informative)

mallumax (712655) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069459)

"Empty cache", doesn't delete everything.
before: 737M -Caches-
after: 571M -Caches-
This is seriously fucked up.

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (2, Interesting)

mallumax (712655) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069511)

Anyway, chrome beta is coming on nicely and hopefully I will be able to ditch safari for good. [Firefox is my main browser but I do need a second browser].
I have been keeping track of mac chrome [manu-j.com] and in the last two months it has become quite stable and only thing missing is flash. Some here would even consider that a feature.

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069693)

u know that GOOGLE keeps as bad or worce tabs on u then safari right?

use iron if u like chrome so much aglest it has all the GOOGLE garbige removed..

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069791)

I'm sure you had something interesting to say, but it seems you don't know how to coherently convert thoughts into English [encycloped...matica.com] .

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28070055)

Er Hello? Anyone home??? The lights are on but... Now repeat after me slowly A.P.P.L.E. M.A.C.I.N.T.O.S.H.

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28070369)

You're not seriously considering Chrome over Safari for privacy reasons?

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (4, Informative)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069581)

/var/folders is generally folder for storing possibly sensitive data of ANY application. I don't know the exact reason of why some files are cached there and some in ordinary caches folder but I mean it is NOT just Safari cache. There could be caches of anything, any program.

It could be decided like ''If a program binary is signed and it connects to net'' by core OS itself. Again, it is just a very rough guess.

Did you really expect 700+ MB of Cache from a browser? It indeed cleaned its Cache and didn't touch other applications files. /var/folders is just randomized (sandboxed in future?) temp dir. Nothing exclusive to Safari or any other program.

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (1)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069787)

Uh, dude, RTFS?

Jeeze, seriously, I didn't even RTFA but I noticed TFS said Safari 4 was generating potentially gigabytes of cached info, which it did -not- delete when you "cleaned" the cache.

So...

Did you really expect 700+ MB of Cache from a browser?

Yes?

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28070021)

Seriously messed up. On my machine:

before: 737M -Caches- after: 815M -Caches-

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28070091)

I think the emptying is done in a separate thread, so it can take a minute or two. Check again.

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (1)

bonch (38532) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070359)

I hardly consider something so unbelievably trivial as "seriously fucked up."

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (2, Informative)

moon3 (1530265) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069549)

Safari does clean up after itself

That is a bit of contradiction there, you say that and in the next sentence you claim you need to press the "Empty Cache" button. That means unless somebody figures out how to flush the stuff Safari is happily recording you.

I can't see that option in the Windows version (beta), there is a preference to limit the size of the database, but not a clean up link in the menu.

Re:Safari does clean up after itself. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069579)

Still, it eats the battery in no time, warms up the aluminum bo-day of MY macbook pro, and churns the HDD. It's a piece of shit. From Apple. Thank you, Steve!

At least it is not windows temp (5, Funny)

linzeal (197905) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069163)

Windows temp (/username/appdata/local/temp) which if not cleaned can hold every single unzipped file/torrent/etc since you installed the operating system. Just cleaned up a computer at a friend's house that was nearing 200 gigs in temp from mostly anime porn avi he downloaded and unzipped. I showed his gf some of the stuff thinking it was funny and was told to leave the house, he was not very happy either. Damn kids, lol.

Re:At least it is not windows temp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069203)

Well, looks like we got there within the first 10 posts. Deflect! Deflect! Deflect! Deflect! Deflect!

Re:At least it is not windows temp (1)

EricX2 (670266) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069657)

That sounds like something wrong there. I've downloaded tons of stuff and none of it has ever magically been put into my temp folder. If you unzip something it goes where you unzip it to, and ONLY there... so it sounds more like that's where the guy was 'hiding' it from his GF.

Re:At least it is not windows temp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069717)

With WinRAR and 7-Zip anyway, it goes into that folder and deletes it after you're done unless you kept the file open and closed 7-Zip or WinRAR first.

Re:At least it is not windows temp (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069949)

If you open a zip as a folder and then open something in the zip by double-clicking it, a copy is stored in a folder under Local Settings/Temp. Firefox also dumps "Open with..." content there.

Re:At least it is not windows temp (2, Insightful)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069851)

For internet settings (for IE at least), it's Options > delete offline content (exact location varies based on version). You get a warning about cache and cookies, you hit OK and it is gone. Deleted. ALL of the internet temp files.

To get of -all- temp files, just run disk cleanup. It will empty all standard temp directories. A program uses windows temp, disk cleanup removes it. None of this hiding BS, at least not in XP.

Dunno about Vista personally.

Re:At least it is not windows temp (1)

DMUTPeregrine (612791) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070479)

Except, of course, for the Content.IE5 directory, which is hidden & not cleared. You can navigate to it with the command prompt or address bar, but it won't show up in Explorer.

Re:At least it is not windows temp (4, Interesting)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070035)

Am I the only one who changes the temp directories immediately after installation? C:\tmp for both user and windows temporary folder. I clear it frequently. Sometimes, stuff just doesn't WANT to delete, so I start in safe mode, and delete it anyway. No computer has the right to store data that I consider "sensitive". Anime porn, government subversion, or funding for the most outstanding charity in the world, it is MY business, and no one else's. People should learn what the environment variables are for, and use them intelligently - whether they use Mac, Windows, or *nix

Re:At least it is not windows temp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28070299)

I do something similar, but go one step further. I set the system temp folder to /tmp/system and the user temp folders to /tmp/[username].

Re:At least it is not windows temp (5, Insightful)

wipeMyButt (1411817) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070077)

And this has what to do with Safari's shockingly poor behavior?

Why is it that everyone's response to any sort of problem is "Windows is worse"? If someone described a serious flaw in say, a Prius, would your response be, "Yeah, but Honda sucks."

I'm not trying to excuse crappy design problems in Windows, but when is Apple going to lose this untouchable luster and take it's lumps along with everyone else?

Re:At least it is not windows temp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28070137)

200 gigs in temp from mostly anime porn avi he downloaded and unzipped. I showed his gf

Wow, you are a dick.

Mac abstraction affects the non-savvy... (5, Insightful)

ruphus13 (890164) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069171)

The big value-proposition of the Mac has been that it is easy for the non-geeky user to use. Unfortunately, things like these make those very users vulnerable. Without exposing easy ways to flush potentially sensitive and private information, it is the same users Apple attempts to serve that will be exposed. And, this will probably be the default browser for most new systems, so unless this is patched, expect the problem to proliferate...

Re:Mac abstraction affects the non-savvy... (0, Offtopic)

node 3 (115640) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069507)

The big value-proposition of the Mac has been that it is easy for the non-geeky user to use.

Right, because clicking "Safari -> Empty Cache..." is amazingly complicated...

P.S. All browsers do this. The only difference is Safari saves screenshots as well, which are easily: cleared entirely, cleared selectively, temporarily disabled and permanently disabled, as per the specific needs of the user.

Re:Mac abstraction affects the non-savvy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069983)

And you expect all the dimwits who can't even navigate Windows properly (and thus buy a Mac (or somehow gets Safari via some obscure iTunes hack-a-trick or whatever other weird scheme Apple uses to lure in people)) to ever do that?

Re:Mac abstraction affects the non-savvy... (2, Insightful)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070019)

Right, because clicking "Safari -> Empty Cache..." is amazingly complicated...

Er, did you RTFA? Or even TFS? Or even a few of the comments?

That's the PROBLEM! "Safari -> Empty Cache" doesn't empty potentialy hundreds of megs of data that Safari 4 generates. A normal user can handle an "Empty Cache" function, they can't handle digging through the browser's cache locations to manually delete the gigs of data built up because the "Empty Cache" function didn't do what it was supposed to do.

Re:Mac abstraction affects the non-savvy... (4, Interesting)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069525)

But is there really anything to fix besides the files getting into the /var/folders on secure home dir scenarios?

Browsers cache/store history since they were invented and that click happy site found there is a treasure there. Well, that is why Apple spits files to the randomized and soon to be more secure caches dir. The breach (!) requires someone sitting on your chair and browsing your Caches. It is the same formula for getting Mac fanatics attention and unfortunately every time, it works.

What will they do? 128 bit encrypt general public jpegs? Not that it can't be done, just enable filevault or whatever equivalent on Windows.
time.

Re:Mac abstraction affects the non-savvy... (2, Insightful)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070029)

erm putting all of a users private into ~ is pretty key, why safari is even allowed to write to files outside ~/ or /tmp/ is beyond me

Re:Mac abstraction affects the non-savvy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28070181)

Maybe they are trying to pull "Part of the OS" card.

Re:Mac abstraction affects the non-savvy... (2, Insightful)

AnalPerfume (1356177) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069545)

A basic level of user knowledge must also be to blame too. Browsers cache web sites, there's a limit to how much cache is used, perhaps it's set to a maximum by the application unless you set it otherwise. All browsers do that, it saves bandwidth, time and cycles to download each page every time you visit it.

We know this but this is one of the basics of "using a PC" that ALL users should be taught; every so often you empty your cache. How often varies on what you do with your PC. There's a difference between power users / admins and normal users as we all know. Normal users shouldn't need to learn lots of geeky stuff just to use their PC daily, but there's a basic skill set that they should be expected to know. This is one of them, along with defragging and anti-malware scans (if you're on Windows) updates etc. It's not much, just regular maintenance.

Of course, if that were to start happening PC stores would see a drop in frequency of repairs, the amount they could con out of customers for simple work or new PC sales because their 1 yr old PC is slow as hell and they think it's out-dated. Some companies like to charge for basic training too, so I'd guess there'd be plenty of people who would like to see that idea shot down in flames. Nothing like screwing the people for maintaining your ticket on the gravy train huh?

Seriously though, a PC is a versatile tool, used in most places of work now. This means that most people will have to use PCs as part of their work, so basic PC maintenance should be part of the school curriculum. Note I said "PC" not "Microsoft Windows". We're talking platform agnostic here, giving the kids generic PC knowledge which they can apply to any platform, not indoctrination camps to create the next wave of Microsoft monkeys. In other words EDGI not wanted.

Re:Mac abstraction affects the non-savvy... (1)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070069)

We know this but this is one of the basics of "using a PC" that ALL users should be taught; every so often you empty your cache. How often varies on what you do with your PC.

really? I expect my browser to take care of that for me!

This is one of them, along with defragging and anti-malware scans (if you're on Windows) updates etc

I though vista did background defragments so you don't have to (ofc if you use a sane filesystem this isn't an issue).

I do agree that instead of learning to type a word document kids should learn how their computer works in an OS agnostic way. But the goal of any good OS & program is to provide features like caching without requiring any basic maintenance.

beta software (4, Insightful)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069173)

Keep in mind this is a beta, folks; if you're using it, you're presumably volunteering to help inform Apple about stuff like this. So in addition to letting everyone else know safari is doing this, it might be a good idea to let Apple know that it is unacceptable in a web browser. Presumably the company released the beta in order to solicit just this kind of information from its users; hopefully enough concern from users will lead them to take these "features" out of the final release candidate.

Re:beta software (1)

Rosyna (80334) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069479)

Betas should not be given a pass solely because they are betas.

Re:beta software (4, Insightful)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069995)

um yes, they should. Thats the WHOLE POINT of a beta, that you are testing it in a real world, uncontrolled environment with all the risks it entails.

Re:beta software (3, Insightful)

node 3 (115640) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069523)

Please don't do this. This "unacceptable in a web browser" feature is fantastic, and if you still find it unacceptable, you can turn it off. I, personally, find it a very nice touch.

Re:beta software (1)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070083)

putting screenshots of websites you visit outside your home directory is a fantastic feature? wow i sense the RDF is strong in this one

visual pr0n cache (0, Offtopic)

thhamm (764787) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069177)

Hidden files with screenshots of your history

i want that. it usually takes me days to find that-hot-pr0n-chick(tm)-from-5-weeks-ago. with mozilla that is. posting descriptions to some, uhm, 'related forums' is embarassing. now i'll have pictures to go with. much easier.

Easy to fix (1)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069201)

This is really easy to fix [opera.com] . Always the first thing I install when I get a new Mac...

Re:Easy to fix (1)

Stevecrox (962208) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069371)

Recently I put the Windows 7 RC on my home machine and thought I would try out Opera since it people keep trying to sell it on speed/etc...

I have no idea if the latest version of windows causes it some problems but my impressions haven't been good. It's slower than IE 8 to use, doesn't look as pretty and has some bizare page loading bug. A good example is going to www.hotmail.com once you've signed in the page never appears to completely load (this occurs every time and even after I've tried giving it several minutes) and I have to click the stop button before enough icons magically appear for me to get to my inbox menu.

Re:Easy to fix (1)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069453)

Actually, my experience is that Opera kind of sucks on Debian, too. I use FF for that. Maybe the Mac version of Opera is the only really good one? BTW, I'm not sure I'd expect hotmail (a Microsoft site) to do well in Opera, anyway...

Re:Easy to fix (1)

Mystra_x64 (1108487) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070215)

To the contrary my experience with Opera on Debian (x86_64) is better described as rock solid. I'm not using hotmail however so I don't know how it's working there.

Re:Easy to fix (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069419)

Easy way to fix any browser is:

a) Enable filevault or some kind of similar thing in Windows (encyript home folder)

OR

b) Disable caching, top sites, web site icons and history

I use Opera right now, beta testing Opera 10 even on OS X. It does store its files in Caches folder too. Where else should this happen? As ''Top sites'' actually an Opera invention (quick dial, similar), if you dig enough, you will see the screenshots too. Perhaps Opera stores them in a better format than lossy jpeg but they must be still there.

The real issue on OS X Leopard is that /var/folders thing. Especially if I was a filevault user, I would be really really pissed about it. IMHO as disks became faster, it really makes sense to
srm -rf /var/folders on logout.

I mean if it is a laptop or critical info having desktop, you actually need your data secure in case of thievery or loss and you are concerned. For example, I don't really care what is in my Cache and I max them out as far as possible.

Re:Easy to fix (1)

Mystra_x64 (1108487) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070241)

Opera's Speed dial is not the same as "top sites". You need to manually choose your sites for it.

It uses PNGs for those shots btw.

What matters is how the app handles it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069221)

Safari can copy things all over the place for all I care. What's important is whether the privacy settings (like days to save history) are followed or not.

Also, isn't Safari 4 still in beta?

Oh expoitable (5, Interesting)

johncandale (1430587) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069229)

The real scary part of this for me is not the government, more on that in a sec, but your girlfriend/boyfriend/housemate. Anyone who feels like he/she wants to do some snooping now has a treasure chest of stuff to take out of context.

I hope no one here is naive enough to use the "if you have nothing to hide..." line.

Getting back to the government, most cases are not high profile law&order style procedural deals. I could easily see local lawyers taking porn sites as evidence you killed her, technology sites as evidence you were researching bombs, map sites that you were researching crimes, and I can see local judges allowing it, and local jury's believing it.

Of course they could get most of this from ISP logs, but that would be just that much harder to get, and wouldn't come with screen shots.

Re:Oh expoitable (1, Troll)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069293)

Too bad OS X isn't multi-user. Too bad OS X doesn't let you password protect your account.

Re:Oh expoitable (2, Funny)

EvilIdler (21087) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069539)

Wow, that's the most paranoid thing I've read all day, and I've read at least two Slashdot articles!

Re:Oh expoitable (1)

AnAdventurer (1548515) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069555)

Live like you will own up (Yes hon, I was surfing porn, no I didn't mean to click on that ONE). OR do like I do, use Google as a spell check, that'll throw 'em.

Re:Oh expoitable (4, Informative)

node 3 (115640) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069569)

The real scary part of this for me is not the government, more on that in a sec, but your girlfriend/boyfriend/housemate. Anyone who feels like he/she wants to do some snooping now has a treasure chest of stuff to take out of context.

They've always had this. It's called "History" and "Temporary Internet Files". The only difference here is Safari has added screenshots.

If you're that worried, you can enter Private Browsing mode, you can selectively clear out parts of your history (and cache and screenshots), entirely clear out all of the above (including cookies), or just turn the feature off in the first place.

Re:Oh expoitable (3, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069621)

The real scary part of this for me is not the government, more on that in a sec, but your girlfriend/boyfriend/housemate. Anyone who feels like he/she wants to do some snooping now has a treasure chest of stuff to take out of context.

If you are seriously worried about those people snooping around in your computer like that, you have serious problems. You're supposed to be able to trust your girlfriend. If you can't, you may consider getting a new one, because she's going to cheat/breakup before long.

Can't always do as much for your housemate, but if you are seriously worried about them snooping around in your computer, you ought to password protect your computer. And get a lock for your bedroom.

Getting back to the government, most cases are not high profile law&order style procedural deals. I could easily see local lawyers taking porn sites as evidence you killed her, technology sites as evidence you were researching bombs, map sites that you were researching crimes, and I can see local judges allowing it, and local jury's believing it.

What exactly are you planning on doing that you will end up in such a situation? Judges typically don't allow evidence that is not directly related to the case, so if you're worried about being framed for killing your girlfriend with a pipebomb at a popular geocaching site I can see why you're worried, but most people don't have that problem. Oh, maybe this goes back to your weird housemate thing again?

Re:Oh expoitable (1)

mdwh2 (535323) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070011)

I hope no one here is naive enough to use the "if you have nothing to hide..." line.

I have something to hide from people I don't trust or people I don't want knowing about my private life. I fail to see how someone I was supposedly in a relationship with could come under this - if your gf has a problem with you browsing porn, and you feel the need to hide it from her, you both have bigger problems in your relationship than a web browser.

If there's really something you need to keep secret from someone who has access to your computer, that's what encryption is for.

Re:Oh expoitable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28070269)

The real scary part of this for me is not the government, more on that in a sec, but your girlfriend/boyfriend/housemate. Anyone who feels like he/she wants to do some snooping now has a treasure chest of stuff to take out of context.

I hope no one here is naive enough to use the "if you have nothing to hide..." line.

Getting back to the government, most cases are not high profile law&order style procedural deals. I could easily see local lawyers taking porn sites as evidence you killed her, technology sites as evidence you were researching bombs, map sites that you were researching crimes, and I can see local judges allowing it, and local jury's believing it.

Of course they could get most of this from ISP logs, but that would be just that much harder to get, and wouldn't come with screen shots.

My wife always catches me. Firefox, IE or Safari.

Re:Oh expoitable (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28070473)

I have nothing to hide. Suicide Girls is art, right?

Apple is a bunch of followers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069323)

They just added these "features" to appeal to IE users.

It's not that bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069345)

You just need to get used to using it and it's a lot better than firefox or IE.

just poke around in ~/.mozilla/* (1)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069391)

you will find some interesting things in there too...

Re:just poke around in ~/.mozilla/* (1)

mallumax (712655) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069477)

At least it is in one place. Here it seems files are scattered all over the place and in non obvious locations.

Re:just poke around in ~/.mozilla/* (2, Interesting)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069723)

Ever wonder why Apple, who offers one of the best organized file system to users since 1980s decided to put temp files to ''non obvious'' places, scattering them?

Think a bit. I was a Mozilla user when they made the great choice of randomizing cache/temp folder name, Apple (and some vendors) just extended it to operating system for exact same reasons. Temp folder and caches folder security is one of weak points of operating systems and by putting files to weird, impossible to guess places, they are preventing some targeted attacks in future.

Re:just poke around in ~/.mozilla/* (1)

Quantumstate (1295210) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069573)

I am not so sure what you mean by this. I cleared all of my cache and history from within Firefox and it seemed to get wiped. Are you complaining that Firefox stores data that you want stored according to your settings?

Re:just poke around in ~/.mozilla/* (1)

RiotingPacifist (1228016) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069955)

The point is that ~/.mozilla/firefox/ is the only place firefox will put sensitive data into
nothing from a user should be put anywhere else

Re:just poke around in ~/.mozilla/* (1)

blueg3 (192743) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070107)

The -Caches- directory has actually been around since 10.5 and some 3+ version of Safari. It's not exclusive to Safari, though Safari does put cached information there. Your individual -Caches- path does have the proper permissions. The only real problem is that, to my knowledge, if you use FileVault, your Web cache will still be outside your encrypted home directory. (Actually, I think this is why -Caches- is outside of the home directory -- the combination of Time Machine, a FileVault home directory, and an active cache folder cause a lot of Time Machine churn.)

Re:just poke around in ~/.mozilla/* (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070111)

Now - HOW ON EARTH did Mrs. FudRucker get in there? But, WOW, she looks great in that purple mesh...

Why would you use Safari anyway? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069423)

I use Apple computers and I love Mac OS X but why on Earth would anyone use that miserable little browser? It's not extensible (at least not officially) and you can't even disable GIF animations, something *EVERY* other browser, including Konqueror, its progenitor can do. It's representative of Apple's repressive, paternalistic attitude toward its users. "We know better than you what you want to do, so you'll do things OUR way, and you'll LIKE IT!"

Even though I have issues with Firefox 3, I still greatly prefer it to the other options on the table.

Re:Why would you use Safari anyway? (5, Insightful)

UnConeD (576155) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069739)

Here's why I use and love Safari 4 on OS X. And yes, I am a huge geek who hacks code for a living.

  • It's bloody fast, in every way. From loading speed, to rendering speed, to JavaScript execution to Canvas rendering. Firefox does not compare, and Chrome still isn't available for Mac.
  • Full-text indexing of your history + thumbnails are a life saver for finding that one blog post or article that you read 3 days ago but can't remember the URL to or find on Google (because the site's SEO sucks). Coverflowing through a set of thumbnails lets you identify specific pages really quickly if you've seen them before. It really is waaay more than just a cool effect.
  • Safari has the best web standards support and includes a bunch of awesome proposed features on top of that. Web fonts, box/text shadows (+ rounded corners), css transforms, border image, etc. It's awesome fun to develop on.
  • It is the most polished browser on OS X, by far. The scrolling is butter-smooth and feels analog (multitouch trackpad++), the form widgets feel like real Aqua, the textareas are resizable, the font rendering is the most consistent.

For me, Safari provides the best web experience. For you, Firefox 3 is the sweet spot. Why can't you just accept that people have differing priorities and requirements, instead of smugly deriding others for using a "miserable little browser"? If you want to hate on a browser, hate on IE. At least there's demonstrable evidence of how IE has damaged the web. Us Safari users are doing just fine.

Re:Why would you use Safari anyway? (1)

dingen (958134) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070441)

It's not extensible (at least not officially)

Even so, there a loads of extensions to Safari out there, which integrate with the browser completely naturally. I have two addons running myself and they even appear in the Preferences dialog of Safari, like they are normal features.

Reset Safari (2, Informative)

aftk2 (556992) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069529)

This is a bit sketchy, I will agree. However, it does appear like you can remove most of this. In the menu bar, click "Safari > Reset Safari." Make sure that reset top sites and "Remove all webpage preview images" is selected.

Re:Reset Safari (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069589)

This is a bit sketchy, I will agree. However, it does appear like you can remove most of this. In the menu bar, click "Safari > Reset Safari." Make sure that reset top sites and "Remove all webpage preview images" is selected.

But why should I trust that, or Apple at all? Jobs is a maniac, worse than Ballmer ever was. Windows 7 doesn't do this stuff. Apple is the crime.

Re:Reset Safari (1)

Snorfalorpagus (1321189) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069721)

Equally, turn "Private browsing" on (found in the main Safari menu), when you want to browse privately.

When private browsing is turned on, webpages are not added to the history, items are automatically removed from the Downloads window, information isn't saved for AutoFill (including names and passwords), and searches are not added to the pop-up menu in the Google search box. Until you close the window, you can still click the Back and Forward buttons to return to webpages you have opened.

What do you think "history" is? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069601)

Safari has had full text history search since 3.0, Chrome has had since 1.0, firefox is going to have it.

They all do this by committing the absolute evil of "storing what you visited"

How did people think history worked before? magic pixie dust?

And just like in the past if you really care that much about your privacy you just need to use private browsing -- a feature Safari has had since 2.0 -- well before anyone else.

Of course Safari is made by Apple therefore it must be evil, but then WebKit is written by spple and embedded in chrome, so i guess that makes chrome evil too?

Oh well... (5, Funny)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069673)

...a data trail that's a privacy nightmare...gigabytes of information you didn't know was kept about you.

Remember those famous Apple "1984" advertisements where they're the young, free person breaking out of the crushing tyranny of Big Brother?

Re:Oh well... (0)

ZigiSamblak (745960) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070243)

I think you meant "Orwell..."

Bullshit scaremongering. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28069709)

Use "Private Browsing" mode and this junk won't get in your history in the first place for you to need to delete it. The end. Meanwhile, fulltext searching of your history is hella convenient.

That's What Passwords Are For (2, Interesting)

reallocate (142797) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069827)

Fretting about Safari 4 privacy issues seems a bit pointless because if someone can see all that data they can see anything on your Mac.

If your Mac -- or any other PC -- is available to others, well... that's what a password is for.

That was enlightening. (1)

atm153 (1414151) | more than 5 years ago | (#28069837)

Wow. I just saved 650+ meg on my Macbook nano. Definitely disabled Top Sites on my netbook.

Okay, this is ridiculous. (3, Insightful)

geekboy642 (799087) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070003)

Everybody on here needs to grow up. You're whining and crying about your browser keeping a history of your browsing. That's been an accepted feature for over a decade. Only now, you've got a porn mode so it doesn't keep a history. That's new. Why are you wanking fools whining about a browser cache now? Are you seriously crying that a file on your computer might have a screenshot of where you've been on the web? Really? I've got a hint for you: NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR DONKEY PORN.

Don't bother responding, I've already answered your objections:
"Oh, but Geekboy, I live in a totalitarian regime, and I'm a freedom activist! They monitor everything I do!" Your browser history is the absolute last place the KGB is gonna look for information. They'll talk to your neighbors, your boss, your parents, and probably drag you in for interrogation before they even consider looking in your history.
"Oh, but Geekboy, I just love looking at little kids! It's not sexual at all, it just makes me happy!" Do like pedophiles have done since the middle ages: become a priest. Get it off the internet, those parents' groups and TV shows are really annoying. Also, same thing as in the KGB. Even if they don't catch you in an actual sting, they'll grab your stacks of CDs and piles of imported manga way before they give a rats ass about your browser.

Now mod me down, and prove you're all pathologically paranoid morons.

Re:Okay, this is ridiculous. (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070149)

"You're whining and crying about your browser keeping a history of your browsing. That's been an accepted feature for over a decade."

Accepted by whom, exactly? The uninformed masses? The government? Microsoft? Certainly NOT by ME. A browser is supposed to show me a page, and to run whatever media that I might wish to run on that page. A browser is NOT supposed to document ANYTHING, ANYWHERE.

I challenge anyone to sit at my computer, and reconstruct my browsing habits. It will take one very sharp SOB, because I've disabled everything that might have made it easy for him.

It's Beta Software! (2, Informative)

skribble (98873) | more than 5 years ago | (#28070057)

First of all this is a beta product that isn't shipping on anything and while it's trendy to think beta software is fully functional (Thanks Google) with Apple, beta generally means, "really this isn't finished, there's still stuff that's messed up here." (In fact this would apply to most Apple .00 products as well, which is fine since historically .1 or .01 is rolls a few weeks after the initial release.) In other words, stuff like this is to be expected.

Second, Safari has for the longest time provided this very nifty "Private Browsing" which will eliminate all of these issues.

Finally, if you dig in the preferences you can turn a bunch of this stuff off if it bothers you so much. Still feed the fire of Mac hate... whatever.

Bad Safari! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28070113)

Bad! You go OUTSIDE.

Resetting Safari works (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28070191)

The blogger says he believes resetting Safari doesn't remove the information (and then moans he'll have to stop using Safari because of this). WRONG.
Why does such unsubstantiated cr@p get onto /.?

Find, regex, xargs, and srm are your friends! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28070303)

find $HOME -mtime 0

Check for anything new that you don't want or expect. Then wipe them with the srm command.

If you are good at pattern matching, and after some experience of what files you normally find to remove this way, add them to your find with a -regex or -iregex. Once your sure you don't get any false positives (any files you would rather keep), add a -print0, pipe it through xargs with the -0 option, and send it to srm for wiping.

Example:

find $HOME -type f -iregex ".*safari.*" -print0 | xargs -0 srm -v -m -f

Good to check your Flash & Quicktime plugin cache areas similarly, too.

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