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Sony Rumored To Be Debuting Wiimote-Like Controller At E3

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the all-the-cool-kids-are-doing-it dept.

E3 129

Anenome writes "Previously, we saw a Microsoft patent on a Wiimote-like device, and now rumors say that Sony too has a similar device in the works. This isn't surprising, given how dominant Nintendo's Wii has proved to be in this hardware generation. However, many gaming-geeks continue to lament the move away from plain old button-pressing. What is exciting is the prospect that all three companies may incorporate Johnny Lee-style head-tracking into the next console generation, which achieves a convincing 3D illusion on a regular vid-screen, leaving us just a few steps away from true positional 3D. Both the Microsoft and Sony patents incorporate a camera looking at the user, a required setup for achieving positional head-tracking."

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It won't work (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28107127)

I tried the controller and it does not function effectively as a penile replacement or penile enhancer. My girlfriend left me and my parents disowned me and Homeland Security revoked my citizenship. If it weren't for the Italians who stole my wallet this wouldn't have happened, I LOVE AMERICA.

just the next logical step in evolution of control (5, Interesting)

Blue Shifted (1078715) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107157)

we went from very simple digital joysticks, to analog joysticks, to analog pressure buttons, and now to multi-axis 3D input. i love it. it's what i've been wishing for since i was a kid.

analog steering wheels probably represent the need perfectly. [well, at least in the racing games that lean to the simulation side as opposed to the arcade side....]

i hope all the next-gen continue to get more nuanced inputs!

Re:just the next logical step in evolution of cont (5, Funny)

qpawn (1507885) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107283)

The next logical step would be a controller that you can actually wear on your hand like a large glove. It would be so bad!

Re:just the next logical step in evolution of cont (0, Redundant)

jowilkin (1453165) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107649)

I guess you never had a power glove... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Glove [wikipedia.org]

Re:just the next logical step in evolution of cont (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107839)

I think he meant a version that works.

Re:just the next logical step in evolution of cont (1)

damien_kane (519267) | more than 5 years ago | (#28109751)

The next logical step would be a controller that you can actually wear on your hand like a large glove. It would be so bad!

Just keep your power gloves off my gaming system, pal, ok?

Re:just the next logical step in evolution of cont (1)

hal2814 (725639) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108071)

You missed a few. We went from all buttons to rotary knobs to digital joysticks to analog joysticks to digital gamepads to digital gamepads with an analog option to analog gamepads with a digital option to motion sensing nunchuck with IR pointer attached back to analog gamepad with a digital option but with rudimentary motion sensing tacked on to whatever Sony is putting out now.

Wii success != Wiimote (1)

DrYak (748999) | more than 5 years ago | (#28112227)

The success of the Wii among current generation of console isn't *directly due* to the Wiimote.
Adding a Wiimote-like peripheral to the next generation of consoles by Sony and Microsoft won't automagically replicate Nintendo's success.

The main success of the Wii is due to Nitendo policy and shift of focus.
The other consoles makers decided to design the current crop of console as "the same as before but with all graphic/processing power turned up to eleven ! Hardcore gamers will like it 'cause we'll make even more bad-ass games !!!"

Instead of competing on the same playfield, Nintendo decided to change their focus and target a broader audience, people who weren't gamers before. They got success because they target the other family members, when the concurrent where only targeting the male 20-30y.o. hardcore gamer.
They succeeded because, when the other companies were churning "Medal of Vietnam hill #364 - Episode XII - this time with even more realistic rain", they were dragging inspiration from casual gaming, or games inspired from usually non-gaming topics liked by the new target audience (yoga, actually doing sports, ...)

Granted, lots of these games benefited from motion input sensors. But the Wiimote is a result of the need of the new type of games which helped Nintendo attract a new market. It's not the Wiimote in itself wich provoked the success.

Slapping a motion detector in the next production of peripheral won't alone help Microsoft and Sony. What they need is also to broaden their focus of games to a much larger audience than the traditional hardcore gamers. To concentrate additional effort on casual gaming and such.
The down-loadable content channels (such as X-Box Live Arcade) might be a good starting point.

3D for shooting games (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28107225)

I can imagine, the next generation of 3D shooting games!!. Almost Virtual Reality.
the problem would be "Almost Virtual Reality Shooting Games" vs "Almost Surreal Shooting Raids"
could your classmates perceive the difference?.

Re:3D for shooting games (3, Funny)

Steauengeglase (512315) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108023)

And do mammals really drink milk? This is weather at 11.

Make it fun (1)

boliboboli (1447659) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107271)

They should really use this to mix style with innovation by putting the head controller into pimped out fur top hats or whatever is marketable. Game specific head controllers would be cool, like mock night vision goggles for fps games, football helmet for the next John madden game etc.

Re:Make it fun (1)

jimmi_hendrix (1562941) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107505)

But then wouldn't you have to buy a hat for each game you buy? btw, first slashdot post

Re:Make it fun (0, Offtopic)

IBBoard (1128019) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108055)

You need helmets to play football? You must be a wuss. Oh, you meant American Football... Still, most Rugby players don't need all that padding ;)

You would be a bit stuck with games like FIFA that don't have head wear, plus anything other than "First Person ..." would generally be quite hard due to the lack of relationship between your position and the movement required on screen.

Re:Make it fun (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28109279)

Don't worry. I'm sure we can find a tiara for those who fancy playing the FIFA games.

Re:Make it fun (1)

Abreu (173023) | more than 5 years ago | (#28109983)

Well, we already had to buy different plastic instruments for different music games*

-

*Although I've been told that they have come to their senses and become compatible once again

Now to wait... (1)

FunPika (1551249) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107273)

Nintendo fans will be bashing Sony for "once again copying" Nintendo soon enough. Also it wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo is secretly working on a better motion sensing technology themselves.

Re:Now to wait... (1)

vintagepc (1388833) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107315)

New from Nintendo: the Xii! with Full body motion sensing suit, and 3D stereo headgear. (Stationary hamster ball sold separately.)

Seriously, I would be surprised if this WASN'T the next logical step.

Re:Now to wait... (1)

rinoid (451982) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107515)

Yeah, the gaming industry really needs some GUARD RAILS so people don't steal so many ideas.

Re:Now to wait... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28107729)

That's the difference between a fan and a fanboy. I love Nintendo, but this is a good thing. You don't get onto a car company for shipping a product that has four wheels on the bottom. This technology will continue to improve and become more intuitive with three companies innovating instead of one.

Re:Now to wait... (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108883)

Sony can copy their technology, but not their sales.

Re:Now to wait... (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 5 years ago | (#28109933)

They had the Motion Plus announced just prior to Microsoft's keynote last year to preempt the rumored revelations of motion controllers from Sony and MS.

Re:Now to wait... (1)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 5 years ago | (#28110297)

Nintendo fans will be bashing Sony for "once again copying" Nintendo soon enough. Also it wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo is secretly working on a better motion sensing technology themselves.

I just hope Nintendo is working to keep a step ahead in general. Adding more games to the selection would be good for both Sony and Nintendo, since Microsoft has a clear lead at the moment when it comes to selection.

Re:Now to wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28110755)

It's not so much that Sony "once again copied" Nintendo (there's no debating it; they did just that). Not three years ago, a higher-up of Sony's gaming division lambasted the Wii-Mote, calling it a one-off gimmick that players will be tired of in a year. That obviously did not happen, so they figure the best move now is to flip-flop and copy Nintendo.

Full disclosure lest I be labeled a Nintendo fanboy: I've always been a cross-platform supporter (Genesis and SNES, GameCube and PS2, even the first-gen PSP to go with my DS) and if you asked me five years ago if I'd get a PS3, I'd have said, "absolutely." Then came the sad realization that Sony had grown to become this Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde company, and poor Jekyll died along with the root-kit fiasco and the "we should be charging more than $599" quote by the head of Sony's game division. Their sure-fire sale became an all-out boycott from me. At least Microsoft's gaming division owned up to their mistakes with their console. Maybe when something on that system interests me and I've cleared the backlog of games I have right now, I'd pick up an XBox 360.

Re:Now to wait... (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 5 years ago | (#28111083)

Sony didn't copy Nintendo, they've been working on this stuff for years, even during the development of the eyetoy for the PS2 they demonstrated a prototype "wand" controller. Remember, the PS2 eyetoy came out before the Wii.

Re:Now to wait... (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 5 years ago | (#28111203)

I remember Sony showing a wand type thing with their prototype Eyetoy for the PS2 years ago, and here's a blurb from 2005:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7890 [newscientist.com]

Sony doesn't need to copy Nintendo, they'd had motion sensing controllers and games longer than Nintendo has. Remember that the PS2's best selling addon is the Eyetoy, selling even more than the Network Adapter.

Re:Now to wait... (1)

Nesman64 (1093657) | more than 5 years ago | (#28112075)

The wand wasn't as much a motion sensor as it was a signal to help the Eyetoy pick up your motion. The Eyetoy needed glasses.

I got the magic stick (1)

assemblerex (1275164) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107301)

I know if nintendo can hit once, I can hit twice
I hit the baddest chicks
Shorty don't believe me, then come with me tonight
And I'll show you maaagic
(What? What?) Maaagic
I got the magic stick

"Required"? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107323)

e a camera looking at the user, a required setup for achieving positional head-tracking

Sure it's one setup, but it's hardly "required" otherwise it wouldn't have been possible to do the same trick with the wii-mote.

Besides, what happens if your identical twin brother walks over next to you? Did they think of that? No, they clearly did not. Am I truly concerned? No, I don't have a twin. Do I like speaking in questions today? Yes, I do.

Re:"Required"? (3, Interesting)

slackito (985667) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107385)

Sure it's one setup, but it's hardly "required" otherwise it wouldn't have been possible to do the same trick with the wii-mote.

The wiimote acts as an infra-red camera (the "sensor bar" is a misnomer, it only has some leds), and IIRC the head-tracking trick involves a wiimote pointing at the user and some leds in the user's head.

Re:"Required"? (1)

CmdrSammo (1086973) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107549)

and IIRC the head-tracking trick involves a wiimote pointing at the user and some leds in the user's head.

Ouch!

Re:"Required"? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107563)

I had thought the guy just mounted a wii-mote on his head.

Still, face tracking with a camera would be less restrictive and involve less money on hardware in the long run than having to wear headgear which could get damaged or lost etc.

The face tracking of course would be more CPU intensive and difficult to code, meaning poor responsiveness and accuracy for the first generation at least. At first I was thinking you would even have to determine which direction the user is looking in, but really you could realistically assume that they are always looking at the dead centre of the screen, and so you only need to determine distance from the screen and distance of the face from centre (both left/right and up/down). Determine roll as the wii-mote does would be pretty awesome too - especially for stuff like peering out from behind corners.

Re:"Required"? (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107679)

Face tracking can be done on a PS3 in the space of a single frame. That's not where the problem is. Error recovery is. A fairly simply face tracking system will be able to tell you where the face is, based on known information and previous face position, but when it goes wrong it's almost impossible to detect or recover.

Re:"Required"? (2, Insightful)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107993)

By impossible I assume you mean impossible to do it very quickly, but even mobile phones can locate faces on their cameras these days so it can't be too bad..

Re:"Required"? (1)

master5o1 (1068594) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108513)

Locate, sure, determine whether it is a different face from another one? Maybe not.

Re:"Required"? (2, Interesting)

91degrees (207121) | more than 5 years ago | (#28109009)

It's mainly about accuracy. You can search for fleshy coloured ellipses (it's a little more complicated than this but not by as much as you might think) and the accuracy is pretty good. It's not 100% though. If a camera gets it wrong it's a minor inconvenience and you try again. If the system gets it wrong once every 100 frames there's a graphical glitch every few seconds.

So you use motion estimation. Works really nicely. But turn round and it no longer looks like a face. Move your hand in front of your face and it's possible that it will get confused.

So obviously there's a hybrid approach. Use the pure detection method and add motion estimation as a factor. It's better but getting the weightings right isn't so easy. There are probably better techniques - I will say at this point my knowledge of this sort of thing is a few years out of date - but it's not a trivial problem to solve.

Re:"Required"? (1)

cube135 (1231528) | more than 5 years ago | (#28109277)

He mounted the "sensor bar"-it was really two infrared LED's on a pair of glasses-on his head. The reason, IIRC, was that the Wiimote was rather heavy, and mounting the controller would have been a pain, while the LEDs and batteries didn't weigh that much, and were easy to fit on.

Re:"Required"? (1)

Jim_Callahan (831353) | more than 5 years ago | (#28110667)

There's some fairly elegant* predicative stuff with the inertial sensors going on as well, iirc. On the order of the double-click timer, but with more sensor ball thingies involved in the data collection.

*I assume it's elegant, since this is like the 4000th time they've refined the general 'tracking' idea but only the second or third version they've put on the market.

two cameras? (1)

Singularitarian2048 (1068276) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107339)

Shouldn't these camera based controllers have at least two cameras working together, so that they can triangulate 3D positions?

Re:two cameras? (1)

sam0vi (985269) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107431)

I'd guess they'll use resources other than steroscopic vision. Just like the human brain, this cameras can measure relative distance by the change in size, and some other clever evolutionary hacks.

Re:two cameras? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28110615)

You can triangulate 3 axis space (XYZ) with just two source points (and even 4 axis to a certain degree, you can also resolve yaw if the conditions are right, and your software is clever enough--usually it's not needed or wanted), and full six axis 3D positions with just three source points. For most practical applications, you just don't need two cameras unless you need to cover more area.

And the winner is ... (1)

jaypaulb (1549621) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107365)

whichever internal security agency decides this is a great way to "monitor" their citizens. How difficult would it be for such an agency to establish a remote connection to the box in question (PS3, Wii or Xbox) turn on the camera and record away "just in case" somehting nefarious is happening in the household. I should imagine that it would not be excessively difficult to establish this without adversly affecting the operation of the console. How much horse power does it take to send a VGA res 1-2 fps video over the net. Scary thought... or paranoia?

Re:And the winner is ... (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107559)

Hush! I'm already working on it and hoping that the next PS will be bought by many good looking females.

Who said only governments should have all the fun?

Re:And the winner is ... (1)

LordKaT (619540) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108103)

There's paranoid, and then there's goddamn insane.

Re:And the winner is ... (1)

IBBoard (1128019) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108155)

Scary thought... or paranoia?

Remember: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they're not after you ;)

Re:And the winner is ... (1)

master5o1 (1068594) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108539)

No, They are always after you.

Re:And the winner is ... (2, Informative)

internerdj (1319281) | more than 5 years ago | (#28109355)

Maybe my math is wrong, but I'm getting about 4.5MB per frame if the signal isn't compressed. Don't know about you but I'd definitely notice a drag like that over my wi-fi connection. Simple solution: Make a spare tin-foil hat and put it over the camera when you aren't playing your playstation.

Re:And the winner is ... (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 5 years ago | (#28109937)

No more difficult then it would be to set up a proxy server and a firewall. Unless Microsoft imbeds it into the console level, in which case they would have to mention that in the ToS or EULA of the new console. That is IF its still a free country. BUM BUM BUUUUMMMM

Just as long as it's truly Bluetooth compatible (4, Interesting)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107367)

I use the Wiimote all the time with Smoothboard [smoothboard.net] , which incidentally is a much MUCH better application than Johny Lee's.

But really, the Wiimote's BT implementation sucks pond water from the bottom: you need to use the BlueSoleil [bluesoleil.com] stack, which is $$$ and can be quirky, unless you're really lucky and your Broadcomm or Toshiba stack works as-is, and the Wiimote doesn't autoconnect.

Quite frankly, all the Wiimote needs is a small firmware fix to be perfect. No need for Microsoft to reinvent things, just make it compatible.

Re:Just as long as it's truly Bluetooth compatible (2, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107595)

No need for Microsoft to reinvent things, just make it compatible.

What does one thing have to do with the other? If you want compatibility, the last thing you'd want is MS to reinvent something.

Re:Just as long as it's truly Bluetooth compatible (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107773)

I don't think either Nintendo or MS are keen to make something "perfect" that encourages people to invest in their competitors' consoles/controllers, respectively.

Re:Just as long as it's truly Bluetooth compatible (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107891)

Smoothboard is neat, but I'd rather see an app that can work with a couple wired cameras, instead. Having to mount and unmount the Wiimotes constantly to charge them seems like a major hassle, plus the whole issue with the bluetooth stack needed, etc.

Re:Just as long as it's truly Bluetooth compatible (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#28109169)

you need to use the BlueSoleil [bluesoleil.com] stack, which is $$$ and can be quirky

#1 - I got a BlueSoleil stack with my first Bluetooth adapter at no additional cost.

#2 - My second adapter is a cheapo USB adapter that uses the default Windows stack. It works just fine with my Wii Remotes.

In my experience, spending too much on a Bluetooth adapters is usually the root of the problem. If you have XP, I can recommend the adapter in this package [amazon.com] . It's cheap and works really well with Wii Remotes.

is it just me (4, Funny)

wjh31 (1372867) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107371)

or is even the camera in the diagram staring at the ladies tits

Re:is it just me (2, Funny)

rbrausse (1319883) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107691)

it is just you.

but wait a minute - what camera are you talking about?

[minutes later, me looks to the right side of the picture]

Re:is it just me (5, Funny)

BeardedChimp (1416531) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108613)

Good god, I think I just read the featured article for the first time in my life.

If the answer involves giving money to Sony... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28107393)

... then you asked the wrong question.

Patentable? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28107517)

Isn't it weird that you can describe a device as "Wiimote-like", but you can still patent it?

Re:Patentable? (2, Informative)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107805)

Patent law in almost all countries only covers unique implimentations of an idea, not the idea itself. And in the few countries that are exceptions, you can only patent very particular ideas (e.g. "business methods"). So you can make something that's "Wiimote-like" in function, so long as its way of achieving that function does not infringe on Nintendo's patent and isn't covered by prior art. (Prior art objections are usually brought after-the-fact, mind you.)

Re:Patentable? (1)

d12v10 (1046686) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107813)

There aren't any patent laws against improvement on a device.

Track IR? (1)

Novotny (718987) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107573)

Stop me if I'm being stupid, but isn't Track IR a really good implementation of this? As I understand it, I'm doing this using TrackIR with 6 degrees of freedom.

It's been done (2, Informative)

Tar-Alcarin (1325441) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107587)

Why is it that no-one seems to remember the fabulous TrackIR (http://naturalpoint.com/trackir/ [naturalpoint.com] ) when discussing Johnny Lee's headtracking gizmo? Is there any reason why this tried and true device couldn't or shouldn't be used in this application?

Debut? (1, Redundant)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107607)

Shouldn't a debut include something new?

Make it fun (1)

clint999 (1277046) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107613)

I know if nintendo can hit once, I can hit twice I hit the baddest chicks Shorty don't believe me, then come with me tonight And I'll show you maaagic (What? What?) Maaagic I got the magic stick

This Is Sure To Be A Success If It's From Sony!!! (1)

CyberSlammer (1459173) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107621)

I'll add it to my other collection of Sony successes!

Minidisc Player

Betamax Player

Playstation 3

Sony Laserdisc

Can't wait!

Re:This Is Sure To Be A Success If It's From Sony! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28107687)

walkman
3.5' floppy disk
CD
blu-ray

Re:This Is Sure To Be A Success If It's From Sony! (2, Interesting)

vux984 (928602) | more than 5 years ago | (#28107809)

blu-ray

jury is still out on that one. it's done better than laser disc.

but its still hasn't done better than betamax (sure it killed hddvd..but I remember when video stores were almost 50/50 beta/vhs and beta still lost.

And in my opinion blu-ray's real competition is DVD. Sure bluray has the quality advantage... but then so did betamax... dvd's are cheap, well established, and look equally good on most people's tv's at the viewing distances most people watch tv at.

bluray penetration and marketshare is expanding... but it hasn't reached critical mass yet, and it might well die out, replaced by the next big thing, before it does.

blurays biggest issues, in my mind, is that they aren't backwards compatible, and they aren't better than DVD to anywhere near the same degree that DVD was better than VHS.

I know so many people who find bluray more annoying than anything.. great when it works... but because they only have one bluray player they can only watch it in their living room... it doesn't work in their laptop, their portable dvd player, their dvd player at the cabin, the tv in the bedroom, and they can't bring it over and watch it at a friends house (assuming they don't have bluray), etc.

Re:This Is Sure To Be A Success If It's From Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28108167)

You need to watch the size of blu-ray shelf space. In the last 18 months or so I've seen it go from racks 3 wide, to 5 wide, to 2 of 6 wide, to an entire isle, and that's in my local Target. blu-ray now has about 15% of the DVD area, which is pretty surprising considering the huge price Target keep titles at.

As people dump their old CRTs and back projection units, they'll start to want more HD. TVs are coming with blu-ray player built in, my last laptop came with a blu-ray drive too, so there's no reason not to suspect blu-ray sales will keep increasing for a few years yet. You must be living on old tech, just about everything is coming with media playback abilities working on your home LAN, the blu-ray chips devices use are basic linux systems with a huge amount of functionality. You don't need a player per screen.

DVDs are also being crapped up with lower bitrate. Rip a movie and you'll see what I mean. Loads of space available these days. It never used to be as obvious. I can only speculate the publishers are doing this to increase the difference between DVD and blu-ray.

Downloadable decent HD content is a long way off. Think of the storage you need, think how ISPs are capping and throttling bandwidth. Until the networking and storage is better, people aren't going to want to have their video libraries at their mercy.

Re:This Is Sure To Be A Success If It's From Sony! (1)

Jim_Callahan (831353) | more than 5 years ago | (#28110785)

Blu-ray isn't backwards-compatible in the sense that you can pop one of the discs into an old player, but no mew media format is like that, reprogrammable (PC) stuff aside.

It is, however, backwards-compatible to a greater extent than, say, DVD, as you can take a bit of media from the last generation (a standard DVD) and pop it into a Blu-Ray player and it'll work fine. Trust me, trying to stuff a VHS tape into a dvd slot is a pain by comparison.

Anyhow, I think that people buying new playback hardware are buying blu-ray (because why not? it still plays DVD), there's just no rush to upgrade their existing libraries or their working players. Speed of replacement is slower than speed of "shiny new thing", but it'll take over eventually.

Re:This Is Sure To Be A Success If It's From Sony! (2, Informative)

b1t r0t (216468) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108035)

Sony Laserdisc

Actually, Sony had very little to do with the laserdisc format. They came out with some lame players (actually, any player but a post-digital-audio Pioneer or a high-priced Home Theatre brand player was lame), and they manufactured [wikipedia.org] discs. [lddb.com] Oh wait. Carry on.

But as it wasn't a Holy Sony Format, naturally they wouldn't care if their quality was crap.

Re:This Is Sure To Be A Success If It's From Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28108139)

What an idiot. He thinks the Playstation3 is not a success. 22m consoles sold in less time that the Xbox360 took to get there.

That must therefore mean the Xbox is an even bigger flop (looking at the lack of quality, and last-gen hardware, I think we already knew that).

Let me just to give you (and all the clueless American idiots that believe everything Microsoft tells you) some facts...

22m PS3's in 30 months (26 in Europe) = 900,000 a month globally on average (calculated by splitting the 4 month release date gap)
28m 360's in 42 months = 660,000 a month globally on average.

Re:This Is Sure To Be A Success If It's From Sony! (4, Interesting)

LordKaT (619540) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108297)

So how much money is lost per console versus how much is gained per license and per sale?

If there's any indication that the Playstation 3 is still a money sinkhole for Sony it's their continued refusal to lower the console price, despite being outsold by its last generation counterpart. It means that the PS3 still costs a lot to manufacture, Sony is still taking a loss on the console, and lowering the price would put their charts into all kinds of unpredictable hell.

The declared goal of the Playstation 3 was to shim Blu-Ray into the average consumers home. At 22m units sold worldwide, it has helped Blu-Ray ... but it accounts for almost 90% of all the BD-enabled devices in the home around the world. With DVD being the near-ubiquitous media of choice around the world -- it has market penetration of almost 99% -- BD has a long damn way to go.

Also, the Wii and Xbox 360 continue to outperform the PS3 in the market, with 50m and 30m sold, compared to PS3's 22m.

So, yes, I'd say the Playstation 3 has been a marketing and performance failure. It was supposed to ride the success of the Playstation 2 and usher in the Blu-Ray era. It has not.

Re:This Is Sure To Be A Success If It's From Sony! (1)

el3mentary (1349033) | more than 5 years ago | (#28109645)

Average sales are irrelevant the total number of units are what matters to developers (along with the console parameters)

More Console=More Games to sell=More Profit

Just look at the new Final Fantasy for proof.

The Wii doesn't follow this rule but thats because most of it's games are shitty ports, I'm not bashing it has some great games but the ratio of Crap:Good games is around 20:1 at the moment.

Re:This Is Sure To Be A Success If It's From Sony! (1)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 5 years ago | (#28111249)

Wow. First off... how sad to be a loyal supporter of a corporate entity.

Secondly; the PS3 is at 22mil wordwide sales, compared to 30 mil for the 360, and about 50 mill for the Wii. In the US, the situation is worse; about 8.5 mil PS3, compared to about 17 mill 360s.

The PS3 has rebounded, to an extent. Eighteen months ago it looked like it would be an embarrassing failure for Sony; now, it is at least competitive. It will probably never catch up with 360 sales wordwide; it certainly will never catch up in the US. That is a HUGE failure for a company that was the undisputed leader of the last two console generations; although Sony execs like to blather on about how they are still the market leader (keeping fanboys like you happy), there is no doubt they are tremendously disappointed how this gen turned out.

The blessing is, that when Sony announces their next console, it might be significantly better. The occasional failure tends to put a company back on the right track. (By better, I don't mean more powerful; nobody complains the PS3 isn't powerful enough. I mean with a price point and features that consumers want, and a renewed focus on actual games.)

Re:This Is Sure To Be A Success If It's From Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28108205)

Urm, Sony didn't invent laserdiscs. But you might want to put 3.5" floppy disks and audio CDs on that list.

PS3 is fine (1)

Spatial (1235392) | more than 5 years ago | (#28109557)

What's wrong with the PS3? Most people would regard the 360 as a successful product, and the PS3 is selling at the same average rate of ~700,000 units per month. The 360 leads it in total sales due to its earlier release date, not by selling more.

Re:PS3 is fine (2, Insightful)

rbarreira (836272) | more than 5 years ago | (#28110997)

Sony went from 70% market share in the previous generation to around 20% now. That's what's wrong ;)

Re:PS3 is fine (1)

rbarreira (836272) | more than 5 years ago | (#28111199)

Oh, it has also lost Sony $4 + billion, maybe more than $5 billion.

Source: Sony's financial reports in their investor relations page, Games division.

The problem ... (4, Insightful)

LordKaT (619540) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108005)

... is the added complexity proposed to operate the gaming console. At first one button was fine, then two buttons, six, twelve ... now my wireless Logitech controller has no less than 18 buttons on it, two analog sticks, and a d-pad.

The beautiful thing about the Wii is that while it's not as fast or responsive as simply pressing a button to do X, it helps alleviate the complexity of modern gaming. My dad -- who couldn't figure out how to play golf on the Xbox because of all the different button combinations -- had no problems playing golf on the Wii (he still has a hard time with, and has basically given up on, 3D gaming -- so 3D Zelda and Mario are right out for him).

But now Microsoft and Sony continue to take the elegant design of the Wii controller (relative to the other gaming controllers, mind you) and add a whole bunch of shit to it to make it "better"

Technologically, it might be better, but god damn, they are missing the point: it's not the motion controls that gave Nintendo the damn lead, it's the ease of operation that opened the console up to less than hardcore gamers.

When my dad has to strap on a helmet just to play these games, he's going to junk the console, open his laptop, and play TextTwist into the night ... and I can't blame him.

Re:The problem ... (1)

Clovis42 (1229086) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108915)

My dad -- who couldn't figure out how to play golf on the Xbox because of all the different button combinations -- had no problems playing golf on the Wii

Hmm... I find this statement odd, since I do have a hard time playing golf on the Wii. Or, at least, I have a hard time playing well. The controls are just way too finicky. I'd have a much easier time basing the power of my shot on one or two wildly swinging meters that I have to hit a button combination to stop at the right point. Every time I swing the Wii remote I seem to get a somewhat different response. And then theres putting. Then again, maybe this makes the game more like real golf.

Also, I might just be dense, but the way the game displays the direction of the wind is just confusing to me. In most game I usually get the idea right away. The wind is blowing towards me. But Wii Sports Golf forces me to turn my character to face the wind to have a good idea of where it is going.

There are similar complaints for bowling or almost any other Wiimote-centric Wii game.

Re:The problem ... (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 5 years ago | (#28110143)

I found it hard to properly gauge my shot power in golf until I assumed an actual golf stance, then it became easy.

Re:The problem ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28110417)

...but that's a different point.

Sure, pressing buttons is more precise than the wii remote. But the point was that it is easier to figure out how to use the remote to play golf than it is to figure out the X-Box controls.

Neo Geo Pricing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28108111)

It will be $200.

Eyetoy+Target (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108233)

Subject says it all. There's a camera, there's a target. It's the Eyetoy, with a target. The eyetoy was lame because the PS2 only had enough processing power for simple games when doing the image processing. This ought to be less lame, but I still won't have one because there's not enough room for a PS3 in my living room, and besides, I already have a George Foreman grill.

Re:Eyetoy+Target (1)

Dr. Manhattan (29720) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108625)

...there's not enough room for a PS3 in my living room, and besides, I already have a George Foreman grill.

Um... my PS3 doesn't get particularly hot, and it's got the 90nm graphics chip and the 65nm Cell. The newer models have 65nm graphics chips, too, and consume even less power. The Xbox 360, on the other hand... well, I don't know if it consumes less power or not, but whatever heat it generates, it can't handle it [wikipedia.org] . Spacewise, I can't help you. But it fits in my living room just fine. :->

Re:Eyetoy+Target (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28112215)

I think the OP was referring to the PS3's appearance, not it's heat dissipation.

The word "wiimote" is fucking childish (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28108323)

Hey fuckwads, it is not "Wiimote" but Wii Remote. Those who call it a fucking Wiimote is a fucktard who should go slit their fucking wrists. The advantage then would be no fucktarded sheeple will be left to post on shitdot.

GO AHEAD FUCKING FLAME AWAY!

Re:The word "wiimote" is fucking childish (3, Funny)

josath (460165) | more than 5 years ago | (#28111529)

the word 'wiimote' is just like the word 'fucktard' and 'sheeple'. how can you hate the former but love the latter?

Great (1)

Akita24 (1080779) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108471)

It'll be half as good, cost twice as much, come with a rootkit and won't connect to the InterWeb because, you know, it's full of pirates.

ugh! (0, Troll)

DragonTHC (208439) | more than 5 years ago | (#28108771)

with their failed ps3 product, and their loudmouth CEO and their draconian content policies, who isnt completely over sony?

Re:ugh! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28109017)

Answer: the people who love their ps3s. Or people who don't give a shit about their CEO. Or those who think it's ridiculous to talk about being "over" a company (are we talking about video games or middle school relationships?)

Re:ugh! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28109895)

"(are we talking about video games or middle school relationships?)"

Unfortunately, I think we're talking about both. Grow up, people. Is it really that difficult to judge a platform on its strengths and weaknesses?

Re:ugh! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28110871)

It is if you actually have principles (or simply know better than to deal with a company that has given up on quality control).

Oh! That's right. I forgot that we live in the land of the lowest common denominator. Race you to the bottom!

I don't really like the Wii-mote direction (1)

MistrBlank (1183469) | more than 5 years ago | (#28109173)

Honestly, I like the Wiimote. I like the feel of it, I like the gimmicks it can us. I don't like that every game is forcing the player to use movement or aiming. I'm not terribly happy it's in the PS3 six-axis either. Ultimately that's why I bought an Xbox360.

I'm happy with both consoles and each one excels for what I bought it for.

Re:I don't really like the Wii-mote direction (1)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 5 years ago | (#28110019)

I'm not terribly happy it's in the PS3 six-axis either. Ultimately that's why I bought an Xbox360.

"Flower" is the only game I know where six-axis is required. And it actually works very well.

Fuck sony. (1)

Starayo (989319) | more than 5 years ago | (#28110359)

Rootkits, the PS3, and now this?

The good old days (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28110447)

" However, many gaming-geeks continue to lament the move away from plain old button-pressing." ...because it's sooo intuitive to press triangle-circle-square-square-circle-cross to execute an overhand attack

Head tracking (1)

orkybash (1013349) | more than 5 years ago | (#28112391)

All well and good, but I'll lament the loss of ability to watch someone else play, which can be fun in its own right (and is essential in a large family with only one console!). With head tracking, the visuals don't make much sense unless you're the person playing the game..
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