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PSP Go With 16GB Memory and Bluetooth Leaked

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the this-time-we'll-call-it-memory-stick-pro-pro dept.

Portables (Games) 190

Lyonhrt writes "Engadget and Gizmodo have spilled the beans on the news of the new UMD-less PSP Go that comes with 16GB of memory and a slide screen; also among the features will be built-in Bluetooth and an undisclosed memory slot. The console will be sold alongside the PSP-3000, but there are no details on price at this time. This is obviously Sony's answer to the lost battle with the PSP Homebrew and Hacking Communities, which have cost many thousands of lost sales with custom firmwares."

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Who cares? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28151671)

Mobile phones are good enough at playing games that portable consoles arent worth it.

Re:Who cares? (5, Informative)

Dwedit (232252) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151739)

The directional controls on mobile phones are crap compared to a Gameboy. Only touchscreen-based or simple puzzle games work well on a phone.

Re:Who cares? (2, Interesting)

linhares (1241614) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152213)

The directional controls on mobile phones are crap compared to a Gameboy.

Yes but the AC has a point. Imagine an android phone with the directional controls done right. Or maybe an ipod touch/iphone if the holy saints from apple design were to allow such sins to happen. Sony seems to be in a tough spot here. The lack of a 2nd analog stick is making the rounds in the early comments over the blogs that leaked it. The memory chip might be a proprietary sony lock-in attempt, yet once again. You may need to rebuy your previously bought games to play here. And of course it must have all functionality of the previous PSPs, including SKYPE.

Memo to these failing phone hardware makers: go for android, include skype, perhaps settle on a "gaming standard" of buttons and controls, and let "hackers" (i.e., someone else to take the blame) provide "nintendo/ps1/ps2/psp/amiga etcetc emulators".

Of course, there may be probably some surprise in store, and I hope Sony has something interesting, even if I'm not planning to get it

Re:Who cares? (1, Informative)

Shikaku (1129753) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152259)

Imagine an android phone with the directional controls done right.

http://openpandora.org/ [openpandora.org]

Re:Who cares? (2, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152411)

There are still three hurdles before the Pandora platform becomes established:
  1. it needs to get finished and the first 4,000 units shipped,
  2. it needs to enter mass production (thousands of units a week at least), and
  3. it needs to be promoted in the mainstream media. Word of mouth isn't always enough when the competition has both word of mouth and advertising.

Have you any estimated time of arrival for these three?

Re:Who cares? (1)

wertigon (1204486) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152597)

As for 1 (and 2); The first batch is due early summer. Mass production due fall. As for 3, once it has proven it isn't vaporware, I believe it'll gain lots of traction. But, it'll probably never reach more than 1M units. However, it will be the king of homebrews once it arrives. :3

Re:Who cares? (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153635)

But, it'll probably never reach more than 1M units.

Note that 1 million units constitutes a failure.

Re:Who cares? (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152413)

Unfortunately that's not a phone. The only open phone (openmoko [openmoko.org] ) has 2 buttons : power and aux. Not quite enough for a good game experience.

I keep wondering why this is so hard. Nokia's 5500 [nokia.com] and 6820 [cnet.com] have such useful and quick keyboards. Nokia Ngage [n-gage.com] is a freaking game console (didn't sell all that well though), and has lots of phones supporting it.

Nothing open source though. An ngage-style-controls phone with a few emulators, and a large screen ebook reader (perhaps simply by combining a pico projector [gizmodo.com] and a screen flipping up or something*). Something that can run nes, snes, sega megadrive, and n64 would certainly cover all I want (psp games and the necessary controls for those would be a great bonus). And, of course, a pdf reader and some storage slot that isn't limited to 2 gigabyte.

* yes it wouldn't work well in direct sunlight. You don't get much of that up here though, besides you won't find me outside all that much either.

Re:Who cares? (2, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152491)

The only open phone (openmoko) has 2 buttons : power and aux. Not quite enough for a good game experience.

Who said games need to use a joystick and buttons? Three words: Kirby Canvas Curse.

Something that can run nes, snes, sega megadrive, and n64 would certainly cover all I want

But how would you get the publishers of games for "nes, snes, sega megadrive, and n64" to cooperate?

Re:Who cares? (0, Offtopic)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153097)

But how would you get the publishers of games for "nes, snes, sega megadrive, and n64" to cooperate?

Don't know. Don't care. Say how does openpandora accomplish that ? Or GP2X or the PSP homebrew scene ?

Oh right ...

Re:Who cares? (1)

Shikaku (1129753) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153275)

It has a mic. It has wifi. It can be a phone.

Re:Who cares? (2, Informative)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152661)

True. A handheld gaming console is designed AROUND the controls; it's probably more important than graphics. Most mobile phones would be terrible for playing games, even if they had the equivalent of a PS3 condensed inside.

There's a reason Nintendo dominates the market; they are sticking to the idea that consoles (and handhelds) should be for playing games, and other uses are secondary. There's also a reason that Sony failed miserably this gen, and it closely follows...

Pay-as-you-go gaming phones? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152381)

Mobile phones are good enough at playing games that portable consoles arent worth it.

As far as I know, mobile phones that play games better than the Nintendo DS are available to U.S. customers only on contract. That's a bit overkill for someone who uses less than 60 minutes a month. Or what gaming phone and what U.S. carrier's pay-as-you-go plan are you thinking of?

Jews (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28151703)

Jews will learn to use this evice to control their armored bull dozers.

I predict a lot of sand nigger blood will be spilt by this device.

Re:Jews (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28151727)

Fucky you, racist shit.

Re:Jews (-1, Offtopic)

Niris (1443675) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151921)

Please don't feed the trolls. Thanks.

Re:Jews (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28151907)

The jokes on you, because slashdot doesn't even let you see -1 comments anymore, the comment scrollbar won't let you anymore.

So you can fuck off and die, no-one will even read your troll.

And what has evince, gnome's pdf viewer, got to do with anything?

How does custom firmware "lose sales" (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151757)

To run custom PSP firmware, you would in fact need a PSP to run it.... custom firmware only increases sales through increased usability and features.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (4, Informative)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151799)

Because almost everyone who runs with customfirmware just downloads the game files via torrent?

Most consoles are sold at a loss and makeup this loss through licensing fees for games.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (5, Interesting)

MoFoQ (584566) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151825)

true but one of the many things custom firmware can do is bypass regional lock outs and allows people to buy imported games.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (2, Interesting)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151943)

Exactly, I really don't understand why consoles/movies are made with region lockout. Its totally stupid in a global economy, if I want to play a game in Japanese rather than English and buy a Japanese game, how do they lose money? They actually *gain* money, heck, most of the people who import games are the same people who spend tons of money buying and playing games.

If we had the same stupid restrictions on books as we do on movies and games, manga wouldn't have become popular and as a result anime wouldn't have either and there are both huge industries in the western world.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (4, Interesting)

kjart (941720) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152069)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code#Purpose [wikipedia.org]

That's not entirely true. While I agree that it's kind of stupid, they do this so they can sell things at a higher price in more wealthy areas of the world. Nobody making $20/month or whatever in a poorer country is going to pay $20+ for a DVD (or Bluray) - this is intended to stop you from buying thing from countries where things are priced cheaper.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (2, Insightful)

yourassOA (1546173) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152113)

If they sell something at a higher price just because you come from a wealthy part of the world are they not ripping you off?

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (3, Informative)

Your.Master (1088569) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153173)

No.

There's economics of scale in here. Selling it in all territories for the price they do in poor territories is not profitable. However, selling it in poor territories for the price they sell it in rich territories is pointless because they will make 0 sales.

They can sell these things for barely above the DVD pressing and distribution costs, but they also need to recover the upfront costs of making the movie.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

feepness (543479) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153431)

Ever bought a beer at a baseball game?

A coke at a movie theater?

Maybe you think we should pay the same total amount of taxes (not percentage) as they do in China?

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152327)

Then why not release things with only one or two native languages in the poorer areas and release them with all sorts of languages in the wealthier areas. For example, I don't speak Japanese, I'm not going to go out of my way to buy a Japanese copy of a game that I can get in English thats more available. However, I do own several Japanese games but they aren't (or weren't for a long time in the case of Fire Emblem: Dragon of Darkness and Sword of Light) in English anywhere I'm however a fan of the series and so bought the game to play. Just because I can get Halo 3 in Mandarin and its cheaper doesn't mean I'm going to buy it because I prefer my games to be in English where possible. Plus most languages are in similar economic zones most places that speak English are relatively wealthy, etc. About the only ones that are different are French ranges from wealthy (France) to poor (in some poorer areas of Africa), and Spanish that ranges from wealthy (Spain) to poor (Cuba)

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

funkatron (912521) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152889)

this is intended to stop you from buying thing from countries where things are priced cheaper.

Please explain how getting a good price for something is objectionable.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28153169)

Because when corporations do it, it's called outsourcing. When individuals do it, the corporations see it as theft.
Warped logic indeed.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28152981)

Ah, so it's to gouge the wealthy. (Read: Working Poor in North America)

Thanks for clearing that up.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28153013)

...this is intended to stop you from buying thing from countries where things are priced cheaper.

And yet, many of those exact same companies in favor of various regional lockouts are more than happy to send jobs to whichever region has the cheapest labor. The only difference is the product (human labor instead of games/movies/software).

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152465)

if I want to play a game in Japanese rather than English and buy a Japanese game, how do they lose money?

The company that has bought exclusive distribution rights in the United States loses money to the company that has bought exclusive distribution rights in Japan. This can get complicated in the case of video games based on animated TV series originating in Japan, whose exclusive rights often get parceled out to a different distributor for each major developed country. Or the company with exclusive distribution rights in the U.S. to an underlying work whose foreign copyright has expired loses money to the public.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

hansamurai (907719) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153441)

Not that I necessarily agree with this, but there might be different publishers of a game depending on the region, and publishers want to make sure that if they're selling a game in a particular region, they want to get the sales exclusively.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

thearkitex (1420577) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153603)

If we had the same stupid restrictions on books as we do on movies and games, manga wouldn't have become popular and as a result anime wouldn't have either and there are both huge industries in the western world.

And that's bad.... how?

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28152095)

Except PSP games aren't region locked. Next excuse.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

psych0fred (876456) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152347)

Games and movies are region locked for licensing purposes. A title isn't always licensed for all territories.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28152737)

Except that there is to date only 1 PSP game that has implemented region lock-out, likewise there is no region lock on PS3 games, I think you may have mistaken Sony for Nintendo, who pretty much invented the practice.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28153399)

while that's true, i think one the main features is the ability to rip your UMD to your memory stick. it conserves battery life by not spinning up the UMD drive to run your game. The sad part is that Sony had to build new hardware to do what homebrew developers figured out how do with their perfectly fine older hardware.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (3, Informative)

Spatial (1235392) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153527)

But the PSP doesn't have regional lockout. You can already play imported games on any PSP. I think there was maybe a few exceptions to that, but on the whole, nope.

Granted there are plenty of other reasons to want homebrew. I wouldn't have bought a PSP if it couldn't do it.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

Crookdotter (1297179) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151903)

I wonder, what if it was sold at a profit, how much would it cost? And then maybe the manufacturer wouldn't whine so much about piracy, and the publishers of games can try new models of game production that halts piracy, like regular updates to games similar to valve's steam platform. You'll never get a model that pleases everyone, but you can fight the general piracy of games without a negative lock-down policy, but an open, content driven policy.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

yyttrrre (741310) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153211)

Protip: Don't sell consoles at a loss.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

wjh31 (1372867) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151809)

two ways i imagine:

1-if the firmware makes your current version of hardware better, you're less likely to buy a PSP V2

2-custom firmware and other software could be used to add free software to the console (either legitimate free, or pirated paid stuff) which could mean they arnt getting royalties from games/etc being sold for the PSP

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28151813)

lose sales of games, etc.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

MoFoQ (584566) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151821)

I was thinking the same exact thing.
not only that...but it probably positively affect the sales of various munchies and energy drinks as those homebrew hackers need to get their snack-on and their caffeine-on while they code and hack and stuff.

the only lost sales I can think of is with condom manufacturers and restaurant industries as the homebrewers are more like to stay home and code and ignore their significant others.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (2, Funny)

Niris (1443675) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151937)

I'm sure Palmula gets plenty of attention.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151835)

It loses sales because the majority of people running custom firmware do so to play pirated games. Same goes for the R4 device on the DS. Piracy means less revenue for Sony and less revenue to the publisher. It also means less incentive for publishers to bother with the platform, or if they do to spend as much on development.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (4, Informative)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151895)

It loses sales because the majority of people running custom firmware do so to play pirated games. Same goes for the R4 device on the DS.

[Citation Needed]

Sure, custom firmware can be used to play pirated PSP games much as how a candle can be used to burn down a house, yet that isn't necessarily mean thats the reason for having a candle burning in a house. There are many applications such as Nintendo emulators, etc. that will never be released on the PSP with an official release yet you can get them via custom firmware.

Same thing with the DS, as someone who owns a flash cart (purchased oddly enough at Wal-Mart) there are many, many, many quality applications that are DS homebrew. Some things such as emulators will never be released for it legitimately and there are also many homebrew games that will never be officially released for it.

In most homebrew circles piracy is frowned heavily upon.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (5, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151949)

There is no way of quantifying how many people using custom firmware do it for piracy and how many for homebrew. But common sense dictates that the vast majority use it for piracy.

If genuine homebrewers are shocked by this accusation, there is a simple solution. Disable iso record / playback functionality in custom firmware. Let people build homebrew apps but prevent people from playing warez. Let's see how popular custom firmware is then.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152057)

On the DS there actually *are* flash carts that don't have enough included RAM to play commercial games however they can't play some homebrew titles.

But common sense dictates that the vast majority use it for piracy.

But are the developers actually losing money from piracy? Often the people who use and develop custom firmware are some of the people who buy the most games for the system. Then there is the need for legitimate backups of your UMDs. UMDs while protected still are optical disks and as such are quite prone to scratches, etc. If the UMD filesystem isn't cracked then whenever the last UMD drive fails then the entire library of UMD games gets wiped out forever. If you can save them you ensure the survival of them for future generations or for yourself whenever your PSP breaks.

If genuine homebrewers are shocked by this accusation, there is a simple solution. Disable iso record / playback functionality in custom firmware

I haven't really been much in the PSP homebrew scene but I know that for the DS/Wii most of the time the real developers who develop the technologies do disable it, however because its an open platform any coder can code and run something that helps piracy.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152133)

But are the developers actually losing money from piracy?

Yes is the answer. You can't assume that if there are 100,000 pirate copies that the publisher has lost that many sales. There are lots of lamers who wouldn't pay for anything. But even if 1/5 of those copies could have been legitimate then that is still a very substantial loss of revenue.

I haven't really been much in the PSP homebrew scene but I know that for the DS/Wii most of the time the real developers who develop the technologies do disable it, however because its an open platform any coder can code and run something that helps piracy.

The R4 ships out of the box to play .ds files. I doubt very many people are buying it to run moonshell.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152263)

Yes is the answer. You can't assume that if there are 100,000 pirate copies that the publisher has lost that many sales. There are lots of lamers who wouldn't pay for anything. But even if 1/5 of those copies could have been legitimate then that is still a very substantial loss of revenue.

But similarly there are many cases that people have pirated games, loved them then bought newer games when they came out that were part of the series that they wouldn't have ever bought if they hadn't been exposed to it via piracy. Yes, there will be people who will never pay for anything, but there will be far more people who will use it as a demo service. Not every game system will be pirateable within a reasonable amount of time (such as the Wii which took ages to crack), and if someone became hooked on a series they would buy the other games in the series for the un-pirateble system. Its the same way with music too.

The R4 ships out of the box to play .ds files. I doubt very many people are buying it to run moonshell.

Someone is confused with the DS homebrew scene ;) Basically it started with PassME, it was this circuit board that you put your DS card on top of and the DS booted using the authentication from the DS card and then had instructions to load whatever was in the Slot-2 which could be a flash cart. Then came Wi-FiMe which could send homebrew via Wi-Fi but still required the Pass-Me. After that they cracked the encryption on commercial games in order to make a no-pass device that was just a DS card that required no commercial game. Then after that came Flash Me, some libraries to make homebrew, etc. Then after that came the piracy stage, but it wasn't the original developers of PassME, Flash Me, Wi-FiMe, etc. But rather an entire different scene, the warez scene. Then basically the warez scene used all the prior work to make nice slot one devices such as the R4.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

Asclepius99 (1527727) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153401)

How is that you ask for a citation when someone claims that a majority of people running custom firmware do it to pirate games, but then you go ahead and say "Yes, there will be people who will never pay for anything, but there will be far more people who will use it as a demo service" without anything to back that up? If these guys need to demo games before buying them can't they rent them first?

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (2, Insightful)

trytoguess (875793) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153445)

But similarly there are many cases that people have pirated games, loved them then bought newer games when they came out that were part of the series that they wouldn't have ever bought if they hadn't been exposed to it via piracy. Yes, there will be people who will never pay for anything, but there will be far more people who will use it as a demo service. Not every game system will be pirateable within a reasonable amount of time (such as the Wii which took ages to crack), and if someone became hooked on a series they would buy the other games in the series for the un-pirateble system. Its the same way with music too.

Far more people will use it as a demo service? How'd you come up with that one? While one can't easily analyze piracy, looking at free services like webcomics show that the vast majority of people who regularly read and enjoy them don't buy the comics. And these are stuff created by small time folks. Games have the additional problems of being created by "evil corporations" which makes piracy practically moral to some, and in the case of handheld games, piracy allows one to carry multiple games in a single flashcard. Which is so convenient, everyone I know (both pirates, and one demo user) use a flashcart on the DS.

You asked DrXym to cite reasons why he thinks most people use custom firmare/R4s to pirate games. So, why do you think most people would use "backup/homebrew players" to demo games?

Someone is confused with the DS homebrew scene ;)

He doesn't seem confused to me. Current (and not too current) models of R4s (and all flashcarts I'm aware of except one) can play nds roms loaded into a microSD card.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1, Insightful)

3vi1 (544505) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152093)

You may be right, but you can't prove it with a made up construct like "Common sense". Common sense infers common history and experience.

I've always used custom firmware, for hacking around with the IR and running emulators of my old systems. I've never copied a single PSP game. Common sense for me would say that very few people use custom firmware to pirate games.

If you think the opposite, it's possible that you're projecting your own wants and moral position.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28152403)

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein.

Common prejudice you mean.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152445)

No, common sense. As in a polite way of saying OBVIOUS. It is OBVIOUS that custom firmware is being predominantly used for piracy. It is OBVIOUS that the R4 is being predominantly used for piracy.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28153229)

'obvious', 'common sense'? I'd say your stuck in doing medieval style reasoning that plagued the western world before the renaissance. Maybe you should throw in an analogy with that as well.

The only thing that's obvious is your stupid reasoning & generalizations without any sources.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (2, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152565)

Let people build homebrew apps but prevent people from playing warez.

How is that possible? Homebrew apps include emulators such as PocketNES [pocketnes.org] , and emulators can play pirated ROMs. Homebrew apps include Tetris clones such as Lockjaw [pineight.com] , and The TetriSCOmpany thinks those are pirated [slashdot.org] .

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (2, Insightful)

Spatial (1235392) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153501)

If genuine homebrewers are shocked by this accusation, there is a simple solution. Disable iso record / playback functionality in custom firmware. Let people build homebrew apps but prevent people from playing warez. Let's see how popular custom firmware is then.

That's retarded. ISOs aren't some magic pirate-only feature, I bought all my games and I ripped them all to ISO because it's more convenient, loading times are drastically reduced, and the battery lasts longer. So there's little doubt people would use CFW less, but the result would still not be clear cut. There's a good and bad use for pretty much anything.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

Crookdotter (1297179) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151963)

I own a DS lite, and an R4 cart. Guess what game I play most often? JetPac, run on an emulated 48k speccy. Emulation is a massive market that is being left behind by these handhelds. The d joypad and buttons are perfect for jetpac, I love it. That and manic miner, JSW etc. There's a c64 emulator as well but it's just a little bit too laggy for me, although I still fire it up for Uridium or Paradroid.

Not all r4's are for pirate games. I want a decent, open emulation handheld, and the DS is pretty good for that if you like the speccy. Not investigated the DSi for how powerful its CPU is, but I may decide to get one if it will do c64, mame or maybe an atari ST?

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152619)

I own a DS lite, and an R4 cart. Guess what game I play most often? JetPac [...] manic miner, JSW [...] Uridium or Paradroid

But how did you copy those games from authentic Speccy tapes or Commodore 64 disks to the microSD card in your R4?

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (2, Informative)

_133MHz (1556101) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153057)

Speccy: Tape recorder to Line-In of PC + Taper software
C64: 1541 drive + XM1541 or similar cable + Star Commander software

then it's just a matter of copying the resulting files to the microSD card.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (4, Interesting)

V50 (248015) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152075)

In most homebrew circles piracy is frowned heavily upon.

Honestly, in my experience with people IRL, every single one of them running custom firmware on their DS or PSP uses it to pirate games. Heck, I'd gotten to the point of where I was almost translating "homebrew" into pirated games.

While there might be a small number of people who actually do run custom firmware and don't pirate games, for the vast majority of the public custom firmware = free gamez. Same as modchips.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (2, Insightful)

Rinikusu (28164) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153289)

It's the same head-in-the-sand people that try and say "but but but.. bit-torrent is used for legal purposes!" and ignore that 99% of the bit-torrent traffic out there is "copyright infrigment activities". Yes, the other poster and his 12 internet buddies only use it for legitimate purposes, but the other million people (including myself) pirate the fuck out the games.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (2, Insightful)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152291)

In most homebrew circles piracy is frowned heavily upon.

In most maffia circles violence is frowned heavily upon.
Atleast, that's what they say.

Very few commercial NES games have been liberated (2, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152537)

Sure, custom firmware can be used to play pirated PSP games much as how a candle can be used to burn down a house, yet that isn't necessarily mean thats the reason for having a candle burning in a house. There are many applications such as Nintendo emulators

Virtually no games from the NES's commercial era have been released as free software or even freeware. (Exceptions include Elite.) How many people who use custom firmware (PSP) or an R4 card (DS) to run NES emulators do so only to run homebrew NES games?

In most homebrew circles piracy is frowned heavily upon.

Including piracy of the games that run in PocketNES, nesDS, Goomba Color, Lameboy, jEnesis, SNEmulDS, etc.?

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28152825)

In most homebrew circles piracy is frowned heavily upon.

Ah, frowning always works doesn't it? :) But that's a very fine line between black/white hats. Homebrew and using devices for more than they are meant for is a passion of mine. However, speaking as an imperfect and unwealthy human, if I can get a hold of something that I can live without, for free, I will put my time and cash towards buying something else I feel I must obtain. And somewhere that I want my dollars to go, to say "more of this, please". And that money may go towards used games, to say "I want my mom'n'pop game store to stay in business," since I eschew the large chains.

My own behaviour and common sense says, that in a world without piracy, content creators would not see their earnings visibly increase.

Our whole commercial society (and the current economic crisis) is about living beyond our means. Having the most toys. Huge credit bills to buy huge TVs. If someone has a $300 budget every year to buy games, and piracy is not an option, does their budget magically double to $600? No. Maybe their credit card fills in, and.. cue economic crisis. I spend more on games now than I ever did as a teenager, and I've played an order of magnitude more games than I've ever owned, simply by virtue of having more time than money.

If I rent a game, the publisher feels they got their cut. If I borrow a game from a friend, the publisher feels they got their cut. Even public libraries are offering games. There are also warez groups that encourage purchasing the games you actually play and enjoy. Indeed, I have purchased PC games after trying out a rip, since we've moved past the days where you could actually rent them... With PC games the trial matters more, to see if they will run properly on my system (and the bonus of DRM-free, etc.) To me that's akin to owning a cartridge and playing the emulated ROM, for the bonuses it brings like save states and no physical media to lug.

As a society we will continue to live beyond our means. We will continue to take advantage of every edge we can grab. We will continue to give in to temptation. We will always have different and conflicting ethics and morals. For as long as money exists, we will want to get more for less.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (5, Informative)

V50 (248015) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151923)

Because despite the people who get up in arms over how Sony is attempting to crush the poor, innocent "homebrew" community, every single person I know IRL who has run custom firmware has used it to pirate games, and maybe an emulator.

And these are very much lost sales, I've seen people go from regularly buying PSP/DS games to not buying any at all once they discovered they could pirate them. :-/

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (1)

LunarEffect (1309467) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152247)

I agree wholeheartedly. The homebrew community has released a huge amount of incredibly useful software to enhance the whole PSP experience. Filemanagers, VNC clients, Emulators, Infrared Remotes....etc. Actually, the Homebrew community is the only reason I bought a PSP in the first place. I own every single game I have for the PSP, I actually bought every UMD. They definitely didn't lose any sales on me.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28152945)

you are right, by the way

if you have some spare time try mybrute.com [mybrute.com] awesome game! bet you'll like it.

Re:How does custom firmware "lose sales" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28153365)

Very true, the problem is that the companies believe that people who use custom firmware are using it solely for the purpose of pirating games but the truth is that many people are not pirating the games for it. Homebrew does not = hacking or illegal activities intended. In its most purest definition it is the act of enabling a device to perform far more than what was originally intended.

D.O.A (2, Interesting)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151791)

This looks like it is Dead On Arrival.

For Sony's sake I would hope that it gets custom firmware very fast.

Without a UMD, how are you supposed to play the games you already purchased? Sony's retard-o-think(tm) and fuck-em-let-em-pay-twice mentality makes me think they are not going to provide a way to migrate your already purchased PSP games to it. You will be forced to rent forever what you had already spent money on to purchase before? Look at all the PS1 titles that you had to buy twice.

I would eat my shorts if Sony released their OWN version of UMD ripper to help facilitate the transfer of customer owned games from a PSP1000/2000/3000 to this new PSP Go.

Considering how unlikely that is, and that most people are not going to purchase a new PSP machine that forces them to re-buy all their games......

Sony is really betting on "Piracy" here. This unit would only seem to be of interest to those that already possess custom firmware and the ability to rip UMD's.

It is intensely strange. Sony is marketing to the people they have hated and battled with for so long.

In any case, if this does get some custom firmware on it I would be somewhat interested it. I would like to get my hands on it, since it seems to have questionable ergonomics. Very interesting device, just don't think it will sell well in the beginning.

Re:D.O.A (1)

V50 (248015) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152003)

While I personally am not terribly interested in it (well, until more details are released), there is certainly a market for it.

The fact that it is download only means you can store a bunch of games on it, so you don't have to lug around a bunch of UMDs. I have a bunch of PSN software on my 8GB memory stick, and it's very convenient. Furthermore, for a new buyer, who doesn't have UMD games, legacy support isn't an issue.

There were also rumors of in-store UMD rippers that would let people rip their UMDs to their drive. Whether this happens or not remains to be seen, though.

Either way, I see this as more than a test case for whether to make the PSP2, where legacy support won't be so much of an issue, disc-drive free or not. If the PSP GO fails, that's a lot less of a loss for Sony than if they make the PSP2 have no disc drive, just to find that no one wants it that way.

And with the average attack rate of PSP software being around 4, last I checked, legacy support is probably not a huge deal. I'm certainly in the minority having 30+ UMD PSP games, plus around 10 more PSN ones. If you consider heavy buyers who would throw the average off, the typical PSP owner probably has 3-5 games, not my 40+.

Re:D.O.A (3, Insightful)

EpsCylonB (307640) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152049)

I think they are betting that the distribution model will completely change over the next 5 years or so. Your old psp and the umd's don't automatically stop working just because they released a new piece of hardware. I am assuming that you will be able to download new games on the older psp's as well.

In the long term they want to compete with the iPhone, high end mp3 players and pda's. I think its a smart move, it seems to signal an impending switch to download only game sales, they might be able to come up with a way of using the model to prevent piracy which would make the platform more attractive to developers. Not removing the umd would make the product less competitive in the market in the long run.

As a psp lite owner I think it needs a keyboard and/or touch screen to make it really useful and a threat to the likes of Apple.

Re:D.O.A (2, Funny)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152163)

Let me get this right. You're saying that people bought these UMD thingies? That's crazy talk.

Re:D.O.A (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28152315)

Dude, if you had a PSP and wanted to play a game, you had to buy a UMD... I fail to see what point you're trying to make. Thats like saying you're surprised people have purchased Blu-ray discs for their PS3... every game is on blu-ray...

Re:D.O.A (1)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152441)

Let me get this right. You're saying that people bought these UMD thingies? That's crazy talk.

That's exactly my point. If piracy is as rampant as Sony continually states, then it would really appeal to the very same people that require custom firmware to get the most fulfillment out of their device.

This is what I think the market is:

1) People that have most of their games pirated off the Internet and have them stored on external hard drives and transfer them to 4 gig and 8 gig memory sticks on demand.
2) People that have most of their games purchased and have a collection of UMD discs.
3) People that are brand new customers that have never owned any UMD's.

Group 3 would seem to be the easiest market for the device, but if they have not owned a portable Sony console before they may never own one. What is it about the PSP Go that will attract brand new buyers or convert Nintendo DS users?

Group 2 may include Sony's ideal customers. Customers that don't modify their firmware and purchase all of their games. In that case, lack of legacy support may negatively affect sales. These customers may also be offended that they need to purchase their games twice since Sony is notorious for making your purchase it twice as evidenced by the PS1 games available for re-purchase.

Group 1 is more than likely the most motivated to purchase the device as it appeals greatly to those that play their games from their memory sticks. No UMD and 16 GB of storage? That's awesome. I don't use the UMD anyways.

That's why I state this might only get off the ground if Group 1 finds a way to install custom firmware.

I'm between Group 1 and Group 2. I own about 20 games and have transferred the games from UMD to .iso with a UMD ripper. I have quite a collection of downloaded games, but have always waited and purchased the games I really liked and played to completion. So being honest, this PSP Go will only appeal to me when I can play games I download off the Internet as well as the games I ripped from the UMD's I purchased. I really think I represent the majority, or at least a significant enough portion of the market.

Re:D.O.A (1)

Minigun_Fiend (909620) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152899)

What they could do is some kind of app for the UMD-kitted PSP that allows you to pop a game in and link it to your PSN account, ready for download to your shiny new PSP Go. The only problem is I'm not sure how they'd stop people from just borrowing/renting games and adding them to their account.

Re:D.O.A (1)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153033)

That's a logical theory. Unfortunately does that sound like Sony at all? They never even tried to give customers the ability to do the same with PS1 titles on the PS2. You could have put a PS1 game on the PS2, which could connect to the Internet, and then go through some sort of verification process that would give you a credit to download the PS1 game on the PSN network.

That never happened and there are no rumors it is going to either.

I think Sony has always been looking for avenues to get people to purchase games twice on different machines and formats. That is their philosophy to all of the intellectual property. You buy it per device, with no ability to back up. They are at war with their customers over this, since our position is amazingly clear. We buy the right to play the game, listen to the music, and watch the movie forever, with the rights to media shift, time shift, and format shift being absolute and sacrosanct.

Given that, do you honestly think they would ever do something like you describe? Your absolutely right it's possible. It was possible that Hitler could have converted to Judaism. The path exists. It's just highly, highly, highly, unlikely.

Woah (0, Offtopic)

The_mad_linguist (1019680) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151869)

I've heard of memory leaks, but never Bluetooth leaks.

I wonder how existing PSP owners will react (2, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151901)

The PSP Go has no UMD, so what happens for someone who has UMD games already?

I hope that existing users can register their games through PSN. Perhaps a firmware update for the UMD models would allow people to register games online. Alternatively Sony should sell a UMD docking station for the Go and allow syncing that way. The software would have to occasionally re-validate games to prevent people renting / borrowing games but it must be feasible.

It would be very odd if Sony don't offer existing users any migration path

Re:I wonder how existing PSP owners will react (3, Informative)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152119)

You buy a PSP 3000 then. It says right in the article that they will still sell PSP-3000s side by side with the PSP GO. This is a smart stop gap move by Sony. A UMD docking station is almost absolutely out of the question. Besides, IF they were to do that, they would force you to use a PS3 connected to your PSP.

Re:I wonder how existing PSP owners will react (1)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152169)

I don't think it will be a stop gap in time, if they have to create a fake way of making the UMD market look untenable they will and it will eventually become digital only unless the 3000 and go become easily hackable. On the PS3 to do it part - insightful.

Re:I wonder how existing PSP owners will react (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152183)

I own a PSP 1000. I would not consider buying PSP Go unless there was a upgrade path. I own 20 or so games for my PSP and if I were to buy the new device I would like to carry them over. If I can't do this, then what the hell is the point of me buying a Go at all? After all, I could always slap an 8Gb memory stick in my existing PSP and get the best of both worlds.

If this were a PSP2 then perhaps I might understand, but it isn't. I'll wait and see of course, but no upgrade path means no sale for me.

Re:I wonder how existing PSP owners will react (2, Insightful)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152455)

You answered your own question. This device isnt designed to be an upgrade for current users. Basically Sony just end-of-lifed the UMD, this is the first iterative step away from it.

Best of both worlds is relative: PSP Go is significantly smaller, better screen, no moving parts (other then the slide) and has bluetooth connectivity.

Re:I wonder how existing PSP owners will react (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28152329)

pspgo-ps3
psp-ps2

Re:I wonder how existing PSP owners will react (1)

Jim Hall (2985) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152647)

The PSP Go has no UMD, so what happens for someone who has UMD games already?

Your idea of an external UMD dock seems like a workable idea. Not ideal, but workable. It's similar to a USB DVD drive for a laptop/netbook: just plug in the external UMD drive into a PSP Go, and play games / watch movies as normal.

I have a PSP-1001, and own maybe 5-6 games on UMD, and another 5-6 movies on UMD. (The PSP makes a great movie player on cross-country flights.) I just bought SOCOM: Tactical Strike for PSP, which is only available on UMD. I'm almost finished on my first play-through, and already I can tell it's a game I'll play again later. (Just like Daxter and Battlefront 2 ... the graphics stand up well over time.)

It really would be too bad to "lose" the games I already own if my current PSP dies, and I buy a PSP Go. And it wouldn't be fair to re-purchase them.

That said, if you were fairly new to the PSP concept and bought a PSP Go, I can see how this would be very useful. Especially with all the PSP and PSP/PS1 games on PlayStation Network.

Hint to Sony: When you release the PSP Go, please also release [at least] the top 50% of games from your UMD PSP game catalog as digital downloads from PlayStation Network, so PSP Go owners can buy older, popular games. Really, I'm telling you to make half of your "UMD classic" games available on PSN. Just do it. It's the only way you'll build traction for the PSP Go.

I dispute the "Lost Sales" part. (4, Insightful)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 5 years ago | (#28151905)

I'm sure they've lost a few, but most pirates are cheap assholes who wouldn't have bought the games had they not been able to pirate them instead. I've been around quite a few pirates, most pirates are cheap bums who don't like they fact they have to buy the player/console and get upset over having to buy the "expensive" blank media needed to pirate. Movies and would prefer to use some other persons bandwidth to do downloading if possible.

On the other hand, the "backup" crowd, such as I'm actually a part of, probably spend more on their devices than the normal kid who has his mommy buy him a few games.

I've got around 15 PSP games, I've got about 5 genuine Magic Gate compliant memory cards ranging from 256 MB to 16GB, I bought my PSP 2000 new off the shelf, and I actually have about 1/2 dozen UMD movies along with some various other accessories. Every PSP game on my memory cards were legally purchased, only one used, the rest were out of the shrink wrap.

Considering the tons of music CD's I have all ripped and on my Iriver and iPhone, I would say there's a lot of hot air where the average consumer was concerned. If Sony wants to go after real pirates they need to focus on Flea Markets and the gas stations/etc.... that sell burned CD's with Xeroxed pictures in the cases, not people who don't want to carry a ton of UMD's. Of course I'll admit 16GB on board with digital distribution is a step in the right direction.

Re:I dispute the "Lost Sales" part. (1)

ink (4325) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152249)

Not to mention that Nintendo's DS has been broken for much longer, and has and even bigger piracy "problem". If jailbroken units are the cause of PSP's demise, then you must explain why the DS has not suffered the same fate. Sony just can't come to grips with the fact the PSP's UMD drive was a shitty solution to a problem that didn't exist. It sapped battery power. It was slow. The "cross company synergy" didn't come to fruition. It was a bold move, but ultimately a bad one.

Re:I dispute the "Lost Sales" part. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28153095)

I've got around 15 PSP games, I've got about 5 genuine Magic Gate compliant memory cards ranging from 256 MB to 16GB, I bought my PSP 2000 new off the shelf, and I actually have about 1/2 dozen UMD movies along with some various other accessories. Every PSP game on my memory cards were legally purchased, only one used, the rest were out of the shrink wrap.

Good boy!

Have a fucking cookie.

memory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28151911)

I heard somewhere the memory slot was a micro. But alas I have no source or proof.

Irrelevant (4, Insightful)

neokushan (932374) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152017)

This is obviously Sony's answer to the lost battle with the PSP Homebrew and Hacking Communities which have cost many thousands of lost sales with custom firmwares.

How on earth does this have anything to do with the PSP hacking? How does this affect that at all, aside from being yet another revision to hack?
The lack of UMD drive is completely irrelevant, bluetooth is irrelevant and having 16GB of onboard flash memory is only going to benefit the hackers if and when they figure out a way to install custom firmware on this.

However, the PSP-3000, right this second CANNOT be hacked or flashed with custom firmware. It's close, recent developments have allowed all PSP-2000s to be temporarily flashed, but as I said this is recent (maybe a couple of weeks? Although the exploit is still only about 3 months old). Sony didn't have to come up with an "answer", they already had one and it took until recently for them to hack it. This summary is useless.

How not to Alienate current PSP owners (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152021)

Let them download the same games they already from the e-store for free.

Another idea: An application for the original PSP to let you copy the games to the new system, with full DRM of course. You'd still need a classic PSP to play your games, but at least you'd be able to play them on the new system.

Nintendo DS (0)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152047)

The main reason I don't own the DS is because I don't like how it sits in my hand. I find using it to be a bit awkward, and in the 21st century, I want an analog thumbstick instead of a d-pad.

I've really been hoping for a PSP design with dual analog thumbsticks, and now I see a PSP with zero analog thumbsticks. Frankly, Sony is not going to successfully compete with Apple on the casual, portable touchscreen game market. The main advantage of gaming on the iPhone is that it does not require an additional gadget, nor a wifi connection. The PSP isn't a bad device and it has sold reasonably well. Leave Nintendo and Apple both alone and carve out your own niche.

Re:Nintendo DS (2, Informative)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152141)

PSP GO has an analog thumbstick..... It might not be the best, but its there. And yes I totally agree that no dual thumbsticks is dumb as hell in a redesign of this magnitude.

Re:Nintendo DS (1)

dank zappingly (975064) | more than 5 years ago | (#28153159)

I'm sure this is not the case, but this thing might be small enough that if they position an additional right shoulder button correctly you could use the d-pad with your left hand and the analog stick with the right hand.

Re:Nintendo DS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28152217)

look at the pics, the buttons and the analog stick slide out, cell-phone style.

Re:Nintendo DS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28152343)

From TFA: "The Go looks to keep the single analog joystick, though the overall design is quite a bit more playful and, well, circular than previous iterations of the PSP."

I guess it's the small round thing that looks like a speaker or microphone. Interesting thumb-stretching dynamics.

No 2nd stick? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28152321)

GOD DAMN IT SONY!
Give us a 2nd analog "nub"!
Screw backwards compatibility, you already done that with PS3 for most people, why the hell not for this?
And it's not as if they can't do what they done with PS1 and the DS1 controller, a simple button for "Double stick mode" and we're ready to go. (or, considering this IS the 2nd console, a switch in the firmware to turn it on in software to save the hassle, which some games on the PS1 near the end had)

Other than that, it is fine.
Actually i lied, what a fucking horrible position for the analog nub. Good god, what idiot thought that was a nice idea? Who did they hire to design this? Kids?

Re:No 2nd stick? (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 5 years ago | (#28152779)

I'm sure they'll give you a 2nd stick in the PSP2. Which thing thing isn't. It's just a redesigned PSP. They can't go around adding or removing stuff that affects gameplay without alienating both the current users as well as the developers who'll have to support different revisions of the same console with different capabilities.
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