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Palm Pre Reviewed

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the in-advance dept.

Handhelds 144

mlingojones writes "The Palm Pre doesn't come out until June 6th, but the Boy Genius Report not only got their hands on one but also posted a review of it. They liked webOS, but not the hardware (especially the keyboard). Overall, they feel that 'once people are able to play a real unit themselves, there will be more than a lot of happy Palm Pre customers.'" On the downside, this review says the keyboard is lousy.

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144 comments

Palm is Fucked (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28152951)

I would hate to compete with the Microsoft Mobile Phone Platform.

Also, I hate Jews and sand niggers.

vs iPhone (4, Insightful)

Norsefire (1494323) | more than 4 years ago | (#28152965)

After reading the review and watching this video [youtube.com] I'm disliking my iPhone even more. Mulitasking alone sets it above the iPhone; it's very frustrating having to close and reopen applications anytime you want to do something, however I frequently have iPhone apps crash due to memory shortage so I have to wonder how stable it is with multiple apps open. The keyboard does look like a deal breaker though, granted the iPhone's keyboard isn't perfect and even less so when the iPhone assumes you're a moron that can't type and "corrects" what you meant to type with a completely different word (if I wanted the word it suggested I should have to press what comes up to select it, not the other way round). I doubt it will be an "iPhone killer" though, not because it's an inferior product but because the iPhone already has a hugely established userbase.

Re:vs iPhone (-1, Troll)

waspleg (316038) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153019)

the iphone doesn't win on features, it wins on status symbolism ($800, really?), flashy advertising, and eye candy.

disclaimer: i don't even own a cellphone (or a tv, yes sometimes you need to be disconnected) but i notice that this is definitely true with people i see around me all the time, and i can give specific examples if need be. there's a lot of keeping up the joneses involved here.

Re:vs iPhone (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28153087)

yeah...you got it all figured out dumbass.

"i don't even own a cellphone"....but yet you feel compelled to dismiss of the best mobile inovations in the last decade??

Re:vs iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28153999)

I own an old cameraphone with something like a 0.3MP camera, and I agree with him fully.

Some people just don't value themslves based on how good or expensive their cell phone is.

I only use mine to send and receive calls, and it works pretty well.
I'm holding out for something that isn't an expensive, locked-down piece of shit before I buy a new one.

It might be a while.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

nuOpus (463845) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154759)

What? It isn't about how expensive the phone is. I love to have everything at my fingertips. I love the efficiency at which I get to my information. I bet your are using a broadband connection aren't you? Most people who started with modems thought that 56k was fast enough until you go broadband. Once that move happens, 56k is no longer good enough, it is downright painful.

People who live in rural country areas who get around with bikes and walking may think cars are useless status symbols. I bet you own a car don't you? So .. you just purchased your vehicle as a status symbol?

Re:vs iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28154657)

>inovations

Well, at least he hasn't missed out on one of the greatest innovations of the last century: The spell checker.

You should look into it. Why, I've heard a rumor that some Web browsers even have such functionality built in now! Amazing.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

mikesd81 (518581) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153125)

yes sometimes you need to be disconnected

But you do have a computer and the internet. So unless you're sending smoke signals to the town at the base of the mountain to transcribe your /. post, how disconnected are you?

Re:vs iPhone (1, Informative)

Jurily (900488) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153167)

i don't even own a cellphone

I do: a £10 Nokia. The features it has? Phone calls and text messages. And I can type a message on it much faster than anyone on an iPhone.

Re:vs iPhone (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28153255)

Really? I type 50 WPM at over 90% accuracy on my iPhone 3G. How about you give that a try on your sh***y Nokia.

Re:vs iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28153307)

What typing application did you use to come to that conclusion?

Re:vs iPhone (2, Funny)

whoop (194) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154091)

Application? Any geek worth their salt has properly calibrated fingertips and can count their words per minute them self.

Re:vs iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28153825)

A ten pound Nokia? Wow, that must be an antique.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

dwater (72834) | more than 4 years ago | (#28156765)

Many Nokias are free with contract - even some of the best ones. Yes, they can send MMSes and record video, and have decent cameras - and with some you can (legally) download all the music you want for no extra charge, eg the hugely popular 5800 :

"The Orange version also changes the price strategy and will be available for free as long as it's attached to a two-year Comes With Music cellular plan; these range from roughly 25 pounds ($37) per month"

http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/05/13/nokia.5800.cwm.in.uk/ [electronista.com]

Re:vs iPhone (1)

Bught_42 (1012499) | more than 4 years ago | (#28156901)

I believe he was taking the pound as a unit of weight, not cost.

Also quite a lot of phones are free or cheap when signing your digital soul away for 2 years.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

dwater (72834) | more than 4 years ago | (#28156981)

> I believe he was taking the pound as a unit of weight, not cost.

Oh. People still use that measure? Wow. :p

> Also quite a lot of phones are free or cheap when signing your digital soul away for 2 years.

Yes, I think I mentioned that - it's the most usual way of obtaining a phone in the US, iinm, and pretty common in the UK too.

I wonder if one these 'free with contract' phone is produced by Apple, or if the Palm Pre is free with contract?

Re:vs iPhone (3, Informative)

pHus10n (1443071) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153265)

I can see your disconnect --- there's nowhere I know of in the US or Europe where the iPhone costs $800.

Re:vs iPhone (0)

Miseph (979059) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154141)

Anywhere that's selling it without a 2-year service contract costing almost $100/month.

In case you weren't aware, cell phones are often sold at an extremely subsidized price.

Re:vs iPhone (5, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153407)

Wow. Clearly your qualified to comment, having never touched the device you are disparaging.

I've got an iPhone. I love the thing. Lots of people own them because they are "the thing", but many of us actually made an informed choice. It works well, does what I need (occasional texting, works as a phone), syncs with my Mac, and has a fantastic UI. It's the first phone I've used that feels like the UI was actually designed instead of accumulated. The app store and all the great games and apps are just huge icing on the cake (I realize that exists to a small part in the WM space).

For the $800 comment, do you have any idea what a top of the line blackberry costs without contract? It's about the same. Rumors have the Pre around that price too.

As for the Pre, it's interesting. Multitasking seems like the killer 'app' for it, but I seriously worry about battery life and responsiveness. It seems like just trying to push computer conventions onto a phone. The iPhone idea makes more sense to me (although more memory for faster launching would certainly help).

It's unfortunate that the thing feels cheap, especially considering how much you'll have to pay.

The keyboard sounds like a killer bit. If you don't care about a physical keyboard, an iPhone seems like the way to go. If you want a physical keyboard, Blackberrys are clearly the gold standard. The G1 is worse than that, but it's not bad. The Pre sounds very unfortunate. If the keyboard is as bas as they say, it could be a major problem for sales. That is if the supposedly limited supply doesn't kill them.

I know some people who might get one. I can't wait to play with one. It will be interesting to see how it does.

I'm also surprised that the Javascript based applications (except for some "exclusive partners" who pay big $$$) isn't getting ragged on more. It was clear how much of a difference it made on the iPhone to get out of that. Even though they'll have all the features exposed through special JS stuff, I doubt it will work well for games.

Re:vs iPhone (2, Interesting)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153713)

The Pre uses webkit for HTML. A few months back, webkit added css animation (sort of like CoreAnimation). If the pre supports it, that would help with the games and other little animations.

Re:vs iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28153941)

From my understanding, Mojo (the name of the pre framework) will be released to all according to the Google IO keynote. The pre-release access is presumably provided to select partners - on launch, it'll be released to everyone. Even better, I believe there will be cross-platform support for development tools.

Meaning outlay of costs for developers of iPhone: $99 dev kit + $500 for Mac Mini (unless you've already invested in the OSX ecosystem)
Outlay of costs for developers of Pre: Seems like its $0 (unless they decide to charge for SDK as well). Still cheaper. And the emulator mentioned in the keynote means that you potentially don't even need a phone to develop & deploy a Pre app to customers.

Re:vs iPhone (2, Informative)

thule (9041) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154061)

Note that the reviewer is looking at a pre-production version of the phone. Some people have pointed out that the real production versions of the phone have a better keyboard and smoother sliding action. Note that people *are* saying that the keyboard is a lesser keyboard than the Treo's.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

paganizer (566360) | more than 4 years ago | (#28157079)

Careful. I'm not sure exactly how, but I'm pretty sure you can get in trouble for walking in a different direction than the herd like that.

My feelings on this: I have a Palm TX. I've had it since they were released, early 2006. it works perfectly, original battery last for 6+ hours of constant use. If Palm had released a version with a built in Cellular phone, iPhone's would have made no where near such a splash.
Even today, a Palm TX with an integrated phone would have a better feature set that 99% of the currently existing smartphones.
I wonder, can you use a bluetooth keyboard with a iPhone?

Re:vs iPhone (1, Flamebait)

darthflo (1095225) | more than 4 years ago | (#28157355)

Looking forward to all the hate I'll be getting for this, but:

I own a Sony Ericsson Xperia. It does almost everything you'd get in an iPhone (calling, messaging, browsing the web, Google Maps, listening to music, watching movies, ...), a Pre (multitasking, slide-out keyboard, facebook integration), a "classic" Palm (all the PIM you'll ever need, bluetooth keyboards) or a G1 (running lots of apps from unsigned sources, if you tell it to) and more.

It runs Windows mobile.

Devices similar to it have been around quite a bit longer than first-generation iPhones. Just like most any palm, they've never been cool, though. So even if Palm would've gotten out a TX cell, it's extremely unprobable that this would've changed anything. They might've gotten a few percentage points out of RIM's market share. Maybe some of Microsoft's. But an Apple product's hype isn't based on features, or the price, or the design. It's marketing coupled with hordes of rabid fanboys.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

Alomex (148003) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154419)

For the $800 comment, do you have any idea what a top of the line blackberry costs without contract? It's about the same.

Actually it is about $500 or 40% less. In my world, that's a big difference dude.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

ckaminski (82854) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154635)

Okay, I have a Treo 700p, and I've used the 750 and numerous blackberry's. Anyone who liked the Treo or the blackberry isn't going to find this keyboard any worse, except maybe textural feel. The size is about the same, though the blackberry's are a bit wider.

But not having a real keyboard was a dealbreaker for me and the iPhone.

I have fat fingers and I can "feel" my way around the Treo keyboard, where my thumb does cover 4-5 buttons if I'm not careful. You can't "feel" your way around an on-the-screen keyboard.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

dunkelfalke (91624) | more than 4 years ago | (#28155999)

The lack of multitasking is what nearly killed Palm and gave way to Windows Mobile in first place. And it is the reason why so many people stay with Windows Mobile and shun iPhone - which pretty much works the same way as PalmOS used to work, just with more glitter and glamour (so much for apple innovation).

The keyboard on that particular Palm device seems to be the same as the Treo keyboard.

Re:vs iPhone (2, Interesting)

Facegarden (967477) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153409)

the iphone doesn't win on features, it wins on status symbolism ($800, really?), flashy advertising, and eye candy.

disclaimer: i don't even own a cellphone (or a tv, yes sometimes you need to be disconnected) but i notice that this is definitely true with people i see around me all the time, and i can give specific examples if need be. there's a lot of keeping up the joneses involved here.

Seriously, i hear a *lot* of people mention that the iphone is supposed to be some status symbol, but is that even really true? It certainly sounds good to say, but I have *never* met anyone with an iPhone that I thought had it because of some status thing - people certainly drink the kool-aid and think it's the best thing out there, but that still means they bought it because they thought it was genuinely good, even if they were uninformed.

Maybe it's because I live in silicon valley, one freeway exit from Apple headquarters itself, and everyone around here owns an iPhone just because it's decent (even if it's not great, it's certainly alright) and people tend to be well off enough to have a smartphone of some kind. And so maybe it's how common it is that makes it not a status symbol here, but I've never seen it treated as such.

Does it really seem like a status symbol somewhere?
-Taylor

Re:vs iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28155145)

Well, it's not a status symbol in the sense of "oh look I'm rich enough to have an iPhone". More like it's "cool" to have an iPhone; makes you part of the in-crowd. This is even more true for the pre-Touch iPods, which aren't really all that different from other MP3 players -- although Apple's iTunes Music Store with DRM was a pretty smart marketing move.

Is the iPhone a good phone? Yeah, it has a decent number of things going for it; plenty of flaws too but no worse than any other phone. Worth switching to AT&T for it? Debatable.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 4 years ago | (#28156135)

I used an HP Jornada 680 for a while. I was sitting at my desk at the campus when some guy passed me and indirectly muttered something to me about it being a such status symbol (in the negative way). My mind did a backflip. All along I thought I was just a geek with an interest in electronic gadgets. But in reality, I must have subconsciously bought this obscure device (how can it be a status symbol if nobody knows what it is?) to tell everyone how much better I am than they are.

Of course, after a several months I dumped the PoS for a Palm Vx. The keyboard was great, but WinCE was horrible, the screen was bad in sunlight, and I learnt that a PDA is easily neglected, and therefore useless, if it doesn't comfortably fit in a pocket.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

jabithew (1340853) | more than 4 years ago | (#28156343)

Over here in London I'd say that a top-of-the-line Blackberry is more of a status symbol than the iPhone.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

indiechild (541156) | more than 4 years ago | (#28156455)

There's always some people who think they're superior and claim people who buy Apple gadgets are rich, air-headed idiots who only want to look good. And then they call Apple users elitist snobs!

I've never personally come across anyone who's bought a Mac or iPod/iPhone because of the supposed "cool" factor.

People like waspleg seem to be unable to accept that the iPhone does have its upsides and its advantages over other devices. I'm perfectly happy to accept that the iPhone doesn't suit everyone and other phones will suit some users much better than the iPhone would.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

zullnero (833754) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153489)

On the other hand, my laptop is a desktop replacement and weighs a ton. It takes up most of a table at a coffee shop. I have a nearly 19 inch monitor on the thing.

I use my smartphone for everywhere else. My laptop works great for when I go from home to work, but when I'm anywhere else, I'd rather not carry, or buy, a smaller laptop AND a cellphone. I prefer to use a smartphone for that exact purpose.

The thing is, I agree with you. iPhones are purely for show. I can do a whole lot of the same things on my old Palm Treo that my friends can do with their iPhones. I can even take movies and copy and paste between apps on my phone that is older than theirs. Sure, it's not as pretty, but it works and the things I'd get out of an iPhone just don't make up for the things I'd lose if I switched to an iPhone.

Which is why, of course, there's no question I'm getting a Pre. All that and it's built on Linux. I can't see how a /.'er could resist that. Even if the keyboard isn't perfect...then again, from the full sized pictures I've seen of the phone, I have to say that it's not such a deal breaker as Boy Genius says it is. Apparently he doesn't use his thumbs from the same position as I use mine when typing on the keyboard, it doesn't look like I'd have the same problem as he has with hitting the bottom half of the front plate.

Re:vs iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28153495)

Ah, the internet. Where any unqualified, uninformed, hypocritical fool can comment on stuff they know nothing about.

Oh yeah, nice Livejournal page, Mr. Disconnected. By "nice", I mean awful.

Re:vs iPhone (5, Insightful)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153497)

the iphone doesn't win on features, it wins on status symbolism ($800, really?), flashy advertising, and eye candy.

Speaking as someone who has used and evaluated most Smartphones released in the past three years, whilst the iPhone is most definitely not perfect - it does a lot of things right, far more than the three points you quote above.

In fact, it sounds like you haven't actually used an iPhone to be able to accurately comment about it.

disclaimer: i don't even own a cellphone

I rest my case. Why you got a +5 for guessing about something you freely admit you've never used and hence have no authority to comment on is beyond me.

Re:vs iPhone (2, Interesting)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 4 years ago | (#28155009)

The iPhone is a very solid and well supported product.

But it's by no means perfect, and it got a lot of stuff wrong. (As already pointed out, the app limit is annoying)

And saying the iPhone is better than ____ isn't that impressive. Vista is better than Windows ME, but let me tell you, that comparison means nothing at all. :P The iPhone can still be bad at a specific thing while beating almost every other phone, because the other phones are absolutely atrocious at it.

Hey, ever use a Nokia N95? That sure was fun. ;)

Actually it does win on features (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153671)

the iphone doesn't win on features

It wins on features hands down - the features people actually use.

Just the other day I was asking to see someone's Storm, and asked where the browser was- they didn't even know! And after using it for a few minutes I could see why, there was hardly any point.

The iPhone makes things usable that a lot of people would otherwise never use - and the same goes for apps, I think Apple probably has surpassed the old Palm V installed and use app count at this point.

You can decry the iPhone as a creature of marketing all you like, but you're only deluding yourself and will never understand the real reason why anything succeeds or fails.

That said the Pre looks like an excellent phone and I think will do very well. This is because they understand the iPhone is about building a great phone and not about marketing, and the Pre looks to go into the same space with a different take on it that I think can carry a large bit of the market.

Re:Actually it does win on features (0, Troll)

hey! (33014) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154119)

You can decry the iPhone as a creature of marketing all you like, but you're only deluding yourself and will never understand the real reason why anything succeeds or fails.

The subtext usually is: people who disagree with me are stupid, in this case because they're marketing led sheep.

People can be stupid about certain things. In my experience people are very bad at expressing what it is that they want. But they are very good at recognizing once it's in their hands. It's quite possible that Apple nefariously incites technological lust in potential buyers, but if somebody loves their iPhone (as many users I know do), it's probably because Apple did something right in its design. It might not be one of the kinds of things you can put on a bullet list of features, but only a fool would tell somebody who really liked a device they were using that they were a fool to do so, because there are other devices whose specs appear better. A thousand features are worthless if they are not well implemented individually, or convenient to use collectively.

Re:Actually it does win on features (0, Flamebait)

Alomex (148003) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154383)

It wins on features hands down - the features people actually use.

Features like accessing your email, keeping a usable calendar of appointments or a decent battery life? I think not.

The iPhone appeals to light status-concious users. It is all the rage in America, where the Apple brand has cult status among the fanbois, but is just another option in the lineup of smartphones everywhere else (Europe, Asia).

Just the other day, I watched someone spend four minutes trying to finger browse to a web site in a manner that would have taken seconds with access to a decent keyboard and a trackball (read blackberry bold).

Don't get me wrong. The iPhone is a decent option, but claiming it wins in options hand down is straight out fanboism.

Re:Actually it does win on features (3, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154499)

Features like accessing your email

Yes, because it's so easy to transfer in existing email accounts more people do so.

There may be other mobile devices with better email support (Blackberry) but that does not mean they are more generally useful.

keeping a usable calendar

Yes, again better than most other platforms because integration with your computer calendar is good and mostly automatic when you first start using it...

decent battery life

Around as good as other smartphones.

I think not.

No, you didn't - the common Apple Hater condition. You didn't think beyond that narrow set of categories (those alone would obviously make Blackberry into an overall winner) into the many other ways the device is used.

I say that larger feature lists do not mean more usability, so you come back with a narrow cherry-picked feature list and ignore all others. Again, it's the totality of the features that are used, not just one or two features, that make it the most useful device.

Just the other day, I watched someone spend four minutes trying to finger browse to a web site in a manner that would have taken seconds with access to a decent keyboard and a trackball (read blackberry bold).

What's amusing is that I read that other part and knew you were a blackberry person just from the tailored list you had picked. Again, it's the totality...

And from personal use of the Storm I can say with absolute certainly that what you are saying about web browsing being any way better on the Bold is an absolute lie and you will go to the deepest level of whatever the equivalent of Hell is in your belief system if you manage to convince one poor soul to buy a Blackberry for browsing over an iPhone because of your words.

Yes I disliked browsing on the Storm that much.

What on earth were they trying to do with a browser that would take more than four SECONDS, much less four minutes? Between quick zooming and panning and input there's no way a trackball is faster at anything than using the Touch controls.

Don't get me wrong. The iPhone is a decent option, but claiming it wins in options hand down is straight out fanboism.

So is being selective about the feature set you are comparing.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

CaptSaltyJack (1275472) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153933)

How you ever got modded insightful is beyond me, because you really have no idea what you're talking about. As an iPhone owner since the day it was released, and as a very tech savvy geek who is not swayed by flashy advertising and "status symbolism," I can tell you the iPhone suits my needs perfectly. For me, the App Store is probably the biggest thing I like about it. There's just an insane amount of software available for it: I can play all kinds of games on it, I can SSH into my home Linux box, as well as SFTP into it and grab files, I can email, surf, text, watch TV shows and movies. It really does everything I need it to.

Now don't get me wrong, the exclusion of copy and paste for this long is simply inexcusable, and frankly it's absurd. I'm glad this summer they're finally adding that "feature" in with the new firmware update. The iPhone isn't perfect, and there are still a few things I could see being improved, but for the most part, it's the killer phone.

Re:vs iPhone (2)

mgblst (80109) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153977)

Someone dissing people about status symbols, but can't stop mentioning he doesn't have a tv. And of course, sitting at your computer all day certainly proves you are disconnected??

Your point about the iPhone, I agree 100%, until I actually went out and used one. They are great machines, worthy of praise. They have a lot of power, and it is very easy to get to that power, unlike phones like N95 which have a lot of power, but hide it under a dodgy menu system. What is the point of being able to do everything, if you make it a pain to try and actually do anything?

And not many people actually pay $800 for it? Or have you never heard of mobile plans. Most people would have a mobile plan anyway.

Re:vs iPhone (2, Insightful)

alen (225700) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154339)

At $199/$299 the iphone is the same price as other cell phones with similar features. cheaper than a few and a bit more expensive than others. cell phone, ipod, email are all old features that everyone expects in a phone at that price.

the killer features are the app store. there is literally an app for everything. if you're lost and need to find a gas station, the iphone will do it. there are even kids games and flash card apps on it to teach your kids to read. and it will work with Exchange Server to get your email as well.

one device to rule them all. and so far only the Pre comes close to being a competitor.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

dunkelfalke (91624) | more than 4 years ago | (#28156037)

if you're lost and need to find a gas station, the iphone will do it.

uhm, yes, this feature is called "points of interest" and is available on every navigation software for a decade already. navigation software was available for palm and windows mobile since 2002 at the very least.

same goes for all other "killer apps" you mentioned.

just how iphone is special now?

Re:vs iPhone (1)

Archimonde (668883) | more than 4 years ago | (#28156043)

At $199/$299 the iphone is the same price as other cell phones with similar features. cheaper than a few and a bit more expensive than others.

Can you show me where can I buy those for that price, I would buy 5 of them.

How does the subscription plan count in?

Yeah, thought so.

It is fucking pathetic how people can say with a straight face that the $phone costs $199/$299 and at the same time *completely* disregarding the fact about huge monthly payment which binds you for two fucking years.

Re:vs iPhone (2, Informative)

Starayo (989319) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154627)

Well, fuck you too.

I couldn't care less about the brand, which I hate, nor the advertising, which I don't watch. The reason I got my iPhone was the intuitive web browsing interface and the fact that it was the only goddamn web-enabled phone that wouldn't cost me $120 a month for something ridiculous like 5mb-50mb of data a month (this one's ~$52 a month for 500MB). Lousy country.

And looking at the competition, I made the right choice. My dad's got a blackberry storm. How does it go? Looks like a fish, moves like a fish, steers like a cow. It's absolutely terrible.

I would have liked an android phone but there weren't any available within the country until just recently and even then the plans are worse. I'm not made of money.

Re:vs iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28156793)

The reason I got my iPhone was the intuitive web browsing interface and the fact that it was the only goddamn web-enabled phone that wouldn't cost me $120 a month for something ridiculous like 5mb-50mb of data a month (this one's ~$52 a month for 500MB). Lousy country.

...

I would have liked an android phone but there weren't any available within the country until just recently and even then the plans are worse. I'm not made of money.

Mind telling us how you got such a low monthly rate at AT&T? I'm not made of money either and I would get an iPhone too if it only costs that much per month.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

Starayo (989319) | more than 4 years ago | (#28156903)

I'm in Australia. It's with Optus.

If I had paid the ~$220 iPhone cost up front it'd only be about $39 a month, too.

Re:vs iPhone (4, Funny)

Santana (103744) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153115)

Autocorrection can be disabled, you know.

iPhone OS is Mac OS X core. I does multitask, right now.

There's this random application crashing sometimes, certainly. I wonder how you get to know it's about lack of memory and not badly written code.

Anyways, if you're going to throw away your iPhone, just let me know where.

Re:vs iPhone (3, Informative)

The Qube (749) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153301)

I'm an iPhone developer and memory crashes are all to do with badly written code. iPhone SDK has fantastic debugging capabilities that let you catch memory leaks and easily fix them - much better than any other mobile platform SDK I've ever worked with. The problem is ultimately that everyone wants to be an iPhone developer and make millions in the App Store after picking up a book and watching an online tutorial or two, without knowing a single thing about development outside of a web scripting language or two.
Apple also used to be really strict about testing for this during the app approval process, but it looks like they relaxed the standards. Hmm, I wonder why... I've recently seen apps which crash after 3-4 minutes of use.
By the way, check out my first app - for the cricket lovers around the world: Virtual Cricket for iPhone [virtualcricket.mobi]

Re:vs iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28156433)

Am I the only one who automatically translates sentences like "the iphone sdk is the best sdk i have ever worked with" into "the iphone sdk is the only sdk i have ever worked with"?

> "By the way, check out my first app - for the cricket lovers around the world: Virtual Cricket for iPhone"

Does it run on the palm pre or on Android?

Re:vs iPhone (0, Troll)

Norsefire (1494323) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153319)

Autocorrection can be disabled, you know.

Autocorrection can't be disabled by default.

iPhone OS is Mac OS X core. I does multitask, right now.

Yes it multitasks, but not on GUI apps.

There's this random application crashing sometimes, certainly. I wonder how you get to know it's about lack of memory and not badly written code.

You can use apps to profile memory usage and whenever an app crashes for me it's because the available memory has dropped too low. Especially when it's Safari that crashed (normally with 2-3 pages open).

Anyways, if you're going to throw away your iPhone, just let me know where.

I would but I can't copy and paste the name of the place.

Re:vs iPhone (4, Informative)

The Qube (749) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153363)

> Autocorrection can't be disabled by default.

Settings --> General --> Keyboard:
Auto-Correction: OFF
Auto-Capitalization: OFF

> I would but I can't copy and paste the name of the place.

Upgrade to 3.0 and you'll be able to.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

Norsefire (1494323) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153429)

Yip, became possible in the most recent update [apple.com]. Guess I should read the release notes more.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

The Qube (749) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153573)

Yeah. It was impossible to write messages in different languages before that without everything being "corrected" to English.

Re:vs iPhone (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28154045)

You know you can change the input language, even on the fly.

Re:vs iPhone (2, Informative)

Thomasje (709120) | more than 4 years ago | (#28155961)

It was impossible to write messages in different languages before that without everything being "corrected" to English.

Go to Settings -> General -> Keyboard -> International Keyboards, and select all the languages that you use regularly. When you have more than one language selected, the pop-up keyboards will have a little "globe" icon to the left of the space bar, that lets you switch languages as you type. I use this to switch between English and Dutch and I find it's pretty convenient.
(I use a 2nd generation iPod touch, but I'd expect the 1st gen, and the iPhones, to have the keyboard settings in the same place.)

Re:vs iPhone (2, Interesting)

fishthegeek (943099) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153171)

I have to wonder how stable it is with multiple apps open.

My understanding is that the applications (initially anyway) are all CSS, HTML, and Javascript. The Pre isn't multi-tasking several apps, but running webkit in multiple threads. Stability shouldn't be a problem.

Native... (2, Interesting)

DrYak (748999) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153893)

My understanding is that the applications (initially anyway) are all CSS, HTML, and Javascript.

Most of them, but not all.
Several developers have had special VIP access to build native applications.
That includes Classic [motionapps.com] a compatibility layer to run old PalmOS 5 applications on Palm Pre.
What isn't know if only a select few developers will be authorised to produce native apps, or if opensource developers will get to write native applications when needed (this will be interesting for a couple of resource intensive applications such as media players and emulators).

Re:vs iPhone (4, Insightful)

sootman (158191) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153283)

... the iPhone's keyboard isn't perfect and even less so when the iPhone assumes you're a moron that can't type and "corrects" what you meant to type with a completely different word...

Well, maybe your phone is right about you being a moron, because you can go to Settings -> General -> Keyboard and turn off auto-correction.

Owning a BlackBerry (work) and an iPhone (mine) I infinitely prefer the iPhone's keyboard. (And before my iPhone I had two Nokias with physical QWERTY keyboards so I'm not just preferring the iPhone's because it was my first exposure to a full keyboard on a phone.) You can type faster and with a lighter touch since you don't have to physically press each key, and holding the phone with one hand and typing with that thumb is a whole lot easier. And whoever thought of putting keys in anything but a straight line (BlackBerry Curve 8830, Palm Pre, and the number pads on my old Nokias) should be shot.

That said, I really hope Apple allows background apps soon, if for nothing other than Undercover. [orbicule.com] The Pre looks nice and they're doing some cool things but I won't be getting one since a) I don't have any worthwhile contacts in social sites that I need my phone to automagically gather and b) I don't need to carry around a calendar. Mainly, I'm happy that the Pre is out to give Apple some much-needed competition and force issues like MMS, video recording, background apps, etc.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

Norsefire (1494323) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153383)

... the iPhone's keyboard isn't perfect and even less so when the iPhone assumes you're a moron that can't type and "corrects" what you meant to type with a completely different word...

Well, maybe your phone is right about you being a moron, because you can go to Settings -> General -> Keyboard and turn off auto-correction.

Ah, so it is default now? You used to have to jailbreak it and use an app from Cydia to do it. See. [google.co.nz]

Re:vs iPhone (1)

samkass (174571) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153451)

Mainly, I'm happy that the Pre is out to give Apple some much-needed competition and force issues like MMS, video recording, background apps, etc.

Pre "force issues"? Those are all features that are widely reported to be part of the 3.0 release coming at the annual WWDC. I'm sure Apple is tracking the Pre closely, but the Pre is mostly winning on pre-announcement of features so far. In terms of what you can actually buy today, obviously the iPhone wins since the Pre doesn't actually exist yet. And when it's released, we'll have to compare it against the iPhone that will also be released about the same time.

Re:vs iPhone (1)

dwater (72834) | more than 4 years ago | (#28156721)

>> MMS, video recording, background apps,
> Pre "force issues"? Those are all features that are widely reported to be part of the 3.0 release coming at the annual WWDC ...and they're standard features on almost all current phones, most notably Series40 and S60 which is the most ubiquitous phone OS at the moment.

I can't see Apple ever admitting they're wrong about anything, but they very often do an about turn if the feel it necessary. I still feel like they think they know better than me, so I won't touch them with a barge pole. I have several pieces of Apple gear (started with a TiBook back in 2002, iirc), and I've never been able to feel like it's stuff *I* own; rather I'm just borrowing it from Apple - a licence for me to give them (more) money.

Re:vs iPhone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28155005)

After reading the review and watching this video I'm disliking my iPhone even more. Mulitasking alone sets it above the iPhone

From that vid, it appears as though the Pre is an Android wannabe. There's nothing in that video that Android can't do, and several things that the T-1 does better (camera autofocus, and larger keyboard; possibly a a built-in GPS and compass as well... umm.. a camera without autofocus, in 2009?!?!?! What was Palm thinking?!?!)

Re:vs iPhone (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 4 years ago | (#28155981)

I'm sure for some apps, having to re-open it is a real pain. But most of the apps I use most of the time are very fast. I'm glad Apple have gone the "no multitasking" route, as it has forced developers to make their applications load quickly. Yeah, for some apps, either due to poor developers or the nature of the app, no multitasking is a serious problem. But I hear there is a solution in the works, and I hope the solution is done in such a way that most apps will still load fast and only the apps that really need multitasking get it. I suspect this is how Apple will implement it.

As for apps crashing, Safari did this once, but that's all for me. And given it is based on OS X, I see no reason why the underlying OS is at fault here, rather than the app itself. And as other people have pointed out, you can turn off auto-correction, and I suspect this is one area that will be improved in iPhone OS 3.0.

summary... (2, Informative)

sveard (1076275) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153049)

The hardware is bad. The keyboard doubly so.

Re:summary... (4, Interesting)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153103)

I didn't understand the review. They figure everyone is going to love the Pre but the device feels badly put together and cheap, the keyboard is crap, the screen (the best feature) is "almost as good" as an iPhone, the zoom (a pretty critical feature in a small screen browser) doesn't work well and there are no apps. The only positive thing they really had to say seemed to be that it's small. But then, that means the screen is small too.

Re:summary... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28153291)

agree. tried it out and it feels like crap.
i have a samsung i8910 which completely blows away apple and everyone else. not impressed.

Re:summary... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28153397)

the world of cell phones there's _always_ something about the device that doesn't measure up to expectations. It probably the reason why no cell phone has ever managed to achieve perfect review scores across the board. However one thing can be certain, a solid software platform gives this thing at least some promise, as the hardware can be improved fairly easily as opposed to taking an entirely new software direction after the fact.

Keyboards? (1)

ViennaLen (1483851) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153063)

Its keyboard may be lousy, but at least there's a physical keyboard.

On another note, the Palm Pre has been very hyped up, especially by Engadget. It will be interesting to see how it'll hold up.

Re:Keyboards? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28153423)

What do you mean "at least there's a physical keyboard"? Are you talking about the iPhone? Because that's pretty much the only phone with a non-physical keyboard. Yeah the iPhone sucks but most people use better phones like Nokia N63 (and friends) or Blackberry.

Prepare to be blinded (4, Funny)

Nazlfrag (1035012) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153065)

Palm Pre on Sprint [sprint.com]

It's just... it's unspeakably horrific.

Re:Prepare to be blinded (1)

mikesd81 (518581) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153109)

I don't know about blinded, but damn that's super busy. Actually it's a pretty useless website that doesn't do anything but mumble some useless facts. They really should be shot for that.

Re:Prepare to be blinded (2, Informative)

markdavis (642305) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153183)

> Actually it's a pretty useless website that doesn't do anything but mumble some useless facts.

Um, welcome to Marketing 101.
And, apparently, the number one use for Flash on websites. It seems that [generally] the more Flash a site or page has, the more useless the content is likely to be to the user.

For *useful* information about the Palm Pre, I suggest going to http://www.precentral.net/ [precentral.net] They are a little hyper to post just about everything known to man about the Pre, but there is no lack of useful information (and very little Flash :) )

Re:Prepare to be blinded (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153197)

Just run it using Adobe Flash 10 - it will just crash after 30 seconds or so. Not too bad.

Re:Prepare to be blinded (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28153277)

Looks like the information overload is deliberate. Probably a bad message since the trend nowadays is towards making your life simpler, but it's not just a matter of amateur hour design.

Re:Prepare to be blinded (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153597)

Looks like they are thinking along similar lines to the google wave thing. Its push rather than pull. Kind of like the control panel interfaces favoured by managers at my work place.

Re:Prepare to be blinded (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28154083)

Jesus Christ, it made KDE freeze.
"pkill konqueror"

Re:Prepare to be blinded (1)

hwyhobo (1420503) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154379)

I am not enamored with that website, but the whole point of it is multitasking. That's how they're trying to sell the Pre and distinguish it from competition. I doubt anyone actually expects you to follow any of the little widgets, just to be impressed by their sheer number.

The keyboard (4, Interesting)

mikesd81 (518581) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153075)

On the downside, this review says the keyboard is lousy.

Yup. I got that from the first time they mentioned it in the summary. But anyway. So I clicked on the link actually. And the review isn't really worth anything since they couldn't actually use the phone as, well, a phone. Looking at the picture of the keyboard, I have to agree that it would probably suck to use. And in my opinion that's a deal breaker. the buttons are really close together [boygeniusreport.com], but that's expected for such a narrow a phone. It probably should have had the keyboard come out to the side and use the phone in a landscape position. It's also quite apparent this guy is biased towards the Blackberry.

Re:The keyboard (3, Interesting)

markdavis (642305) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153153)

I suspect the keyboard is going to be extremely similar to the Treo line (it certainly looks like it).

My long experience with Treo's is- yes, the keys are close together, but the keyboard really does work OK for thumb-entry. The Pre's version is nearly identical, just sunken (which might be a problem for some people). That said, I agree with you that it probably would have been better had it slid out the long side (landscape).

There are plenty of reviews of the Pre. The one sited by Slashdot is probably one of the least useful.

Re:The keyboard (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154777)

Pitty they don't actually compare it to another Palm keyboard. I know what the Treo 600 is like. If I hadn't decided to go with the iPhone, I'd be looking at the Pre and comparing it to the 600.

Pre pre (4, Funny)

slapout (93640) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153151)

So this is a Pre-Palm Pre review.

Re:Pre pre (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153375)

Probably very pre for me. I have never owned a smart phone but this one has me interested because I have been a palm owner for a long time. Unfortunately the European version with GSM looks like being delayed several months, then it will be the end of this year when it turns up in Australia.

By that time I will probably have bought a cheap Samsung android phone.

Re:Pre pre (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28153693)

Actually, its a Palm Pre preview. Say that 10 times at speed!

Re:Pre pre (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28156235)

So this is a Pre-Palm Pre review.

Actually, this is a Pre-Palm Pre review preview.

Not useful review (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153657)

First, why no phone test. Did they not have a SIM card? Do they not have a mobile account?

Second, the snipe a Palm at the end was not professional. Palm has produced serious hardware, the Palm V for instance. But to produce serious hardware someone needs to pay serious prices. One issue is that Palm is not longer a leader in innovation, and no longer goes after the market that will pay those prices. So, it is now down to commodity hardware, a tought fight to win.

Third, who knows what the application store is going to do. Android already has many Apps. iPhone has many apps. Pre will have many apps. The problem is we know have three different platforms, so we in a compatibility hell hole where manufacturers are tying us into platforms. If the phone is the next major platform, we are in trouble.

No GSM, no SIM (2, Informative)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153759)

First, why no phone test. Did they not have a SIM card?

They may have but the phone is not a GSM phone. You cannot use a SIM with it.

Second, the snipe a Palm at the end was not professional. Palm has produced serious hardware, the Palm V for instance. But to produce serious hardware someone needs to pay serious prices. One issue is that Palm is not longer a leader in innovation, and no longer goes after the market that will pay those prices. So, it is now down to commodity hardware, a tought fight to win.

I loved my Palm hardware of the past. But, I don't think going after the commodity market has to mean stuff that does have good ergonomics, just look at the Palm V... I guess keyboards are more complex to get right for cheap though. I reserve judgement until I do it myself.

I think they've done a lot of things right though and they may even surpass Android use, though that will be tough with a lot on Android phones on the way.

Third, who knows what the application store is going to do. Android already has many Apps. iPhone has many apps. Pre will have many apps. The problem is we know have three different platforms, so we in a compatibility hell hole where manufacturers are tying us into platforms.

I don't mind this though because the platforms are actually pretty different. The Pre will have mostly web apps with extensions - that is to say, be heavily based around web technologies but make some use of the pre specific API's.

Android will have a lot of apps that are tailored to a wide range of devices, and probably take good advantage of the freedom the platform offers.

iPhone apps will leverage heavily the libraries to deliver a more touch oriented experience.

I think there's room in the world for more than one platform, and I don't think it's all that bad you may have to write an app three different ways. I value taking full advantage of the device at hand over portability of a small application.

Re:Not useful review (1)

NeuroKoan (12458) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153801)

Being CDMA only (for the time being) there are no SIM cards to swap. To activate the phone on Sprint's network (or any other CDMA network for that matter) they would have to take it into a store. That's probably why there wasn't a phone test yet.

Re:Not useful review (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154427)

>To activate the phone on Sprint's network (or any other CDMA network for that matter) they would have to take it into a store.

I don't believe that is correct at all. Sprint can and will activate their phones via the phone. You don't have to take it into a store.... they just need to know the ESN you read to them and then they give you a code. Done.

Granted, I much prefer the GSM/SIM type concept, but Sprint and Verizon don't do that. In any case, it is probably a good betn there will be a GSM version of the Pre at some point.

Bad keyboard? (1)

eyecorporations (1401035) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153819)

After using a Samsung SCH-u740 (they call it the Alias now I believe) for the past 2 years I'm sure I'll have no problems with the Pre keyboard, it actually looks quite roomy.

Carrier Exclusivity Might Kill It (1)

carbona (119666) | more than 4 years ago | (#28153945)

A 6-month exclusivity on Sprint means many people won't purchase one right away. That's a shame since I think it fits the definition of a "smart phone" much closer than anything else out there right now, including the iPhone, which I happen to own. I don't have a problem with subsidized hardware in exchange for extending your contract, but why limit it to a single CDMA carrier?

Palm needs to get the pre adopted in large numbers and at a quick pace, otherwise it might be left behind as a promising also-ran to the myriad of Apple, RIM, and Android phones that will be out by the time the pre makes it to other major carriers in the US and abroad.

Re:Carrier Exclusivity Might Kill It (3, Insightful)

markdavis (642305) | more than 4 years ago | (#28154455)

> A 6-month exclusivity on Sprint means many people won't purchase one right away.
> why limit it to a single CDMA carrier?

Um... think about what you just said for a few minutes. The iPhone is *STILL* exclusive to AT&T. Didn't seem to kill the iPhone. The G1/Android is effectively exclusive to T-Mobile. There are lots of phones that are introduced to a single carrier for a while after launch. I am not saying I like this behavior- I think phones should be completely decoupled from carriers, completely (and without subsidies and contracts). But this is certainly nothing new or unusual. Sprint has always been Palm's greatest champion, so it is only logical they would work out a deal for exclusivity for a while (most people think it will be less than a year).

Sprint needs Palm just as much as Palm needs Sprint- they are both "gambling" on each other. Hopefully they will both do well for taking the chance.

Competition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28154897)

Cool. I really am an Apple fanboy (thus this being typed on an iPhone), but it is great to see some healthy competition. Plus, I like to see the company that bought BE do well.

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