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Vintage Games

samzenpus posted more than 5 years ago | from the read-all-about-it dept.

Games 159

Aeonite writes "Featuring a subtitle that is almost longer than the preface, Vintage Games: An Inside Look at the History of Grand Theft Auto, Super Mario, and the Most Influential Games of All Time offers a retrospective look at those games which authors Bill Loguidice and Matt Barton feel were, in their words, 'paradigm shifters; the games that made a difference.' As the preface points out, these are not necessarily best-selling games, innovative games, or novel games, but rather titles that, 'in their own special way changed videogames forever.'" Keep reading for the rest of Michael's review.The book itself features 25 chapters, each devoted to the study of a particular title that best stands out as "vintage" in its particular genre. Those games chosen as particularly "vintage" are (in order): Alone in the Dark, Castle Wolfenstein, Dance Dance Revolution, Diablo, Doom, Dune II, Final Fantasy VII, Flight Simulator, Grand Theft Auto III, John Madden Football, King's Quest, Myst, Pac-Man, Pole Position, SimCity, Space Invaders, Street Fighter II, Super Mario 64 (covered in tandem with Tomb Raider), Super Mario Bros.,Tetris, The Legend of Zelda, The Sims, Ultima, Ultima Online, and Zork. In addition, nine additional "Bonus Chapters" are available online at the book's website, covering Defender, Elite, Pinball Construction Set, Pong, Robotron: 2084, Rogue, Spacewar!, Star Raiders, and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater.

Though listing the titles here seems a bit tedious, it does serve two purposes. First, it demonstrates the broad range of game genres and titles covered in the book, with selections made from across four decades of gaming history. Worth noting in this regard is that each chapter is not solely dedicated only to the titular game; related games that both preceded and followed the selected title are also discussed, and although I didn't keep count many hundreds of titles are at least mentioned, if not covered in some depth. Indeed, this broad range leads to one of the minor issues I have with the book, which is a slight feeling of imbalance and inconsistency between chapters.

By way of example, the first chapter on 1992's Alone in the Dark begins with a two page look at the title itself, followed by a brief peek back at other "horror" games such as 1981's Haunted House, 1982's Dracula and 1988's Splatterhouse. The chapter then dives back into a detailed overview of the introductory scene of Alone in the Dark (along with illustrative screenshots), followed by four pages covering the game's sequels and some brief mentions of Resident Evil and Silent Hill. Chapter 2, covering Castle Wolfenstein, follows more or less the same formula of focusing on the titular game, as do Chapter 7, covering Final Fantasy VII, Chapter 9, covering GTA III, and Chapter 15, on SimCity.

However, this "formula" is not followed in many of the other chapters, which makes reading the book from cover-to-cover a somewhat uneven experience. Chapter 3, covering Dance Dance Revolution only really devotes about four of the chapter's 11 pages to DDR itself, instead choosing to spend more collective time (and screenshots) on related subjects like Dragon's Lair, Video Jogger, the Nintendo Power Pad, Sega's Activator, and Karaoke Revolution (among others). Chapter 10, covering John Madden Football goes for over a dozen pages before it truly covers the title in question on five entertaining and screenshot-packed pages. Chapter 14, covering Pole Position and Chapter 17, on Street Fighter II are other notable examples where the focus is not as tightly aimed at the vintage title in question.

This is not to say that the writing is flawed; on the contrary, it is always entertaining and interesting, and frequently illuminating. Loguidice and Barton cover a lot of terrain, and they are not afraid to point out the warts as well as the beauty marks in their selections. For those who grew up with video games in their house starting with the Atari 2600 (or before), the book is like a trip through time, giving the reader a chance to reminisce about days gone by while also learning about the many titles he or she didn't even known existed. All of this material is written in an informative yet casual style that never feels stilted or pretentious, nor too fanboyish. Indeed, the only awkwardness is the inconsistency in coverage from chapter to chapter, which sort of feels like the authors — rather than co-write each chapter — sort of divided the book in half. I have no idea if this is the case, and there are certainly no glaring stylistic differences from chapter to chapter; all are equally entertaining.

The above chapter list also demonstrates that the titles are arranged in alphabetical order, as opposed to release date or genre. While this certainly makes a sort of structural sense, it does feel a bit awkward while reading the book cover-to-cover, as the reader is constantly dancing back and forth through time, from 1992 to 1981, followed by five titles released in the '90s, a title from 1980, and then 2001's GTA III. In addition, the decision to alphabetize The Legend of Zelda and The Sims in the T's, rather than the L's and S's respectively, does feel a bit odd (especially since the titles are listed under L and S in the index). Whereas Ultima and Ultima Online, and Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Bros. are in adjacent chapters, The Sims and SimCity are separated by six chapters. This is an admittedly minor quibble, however.

If there is a more-than-minor flaw with the book, it is the same flaw that seems to beset all books covering the video game industry: the screenshots, and their inconsistent placement throughout the text. Occasionally, a screenshot will actually fall on the same page where the game it depicts is being mentioned, but in many cases screenshots appear a page or two away (a mention of Second Life comes to mind in this regard. In several cases, screenshots actually overwhelm the text (most notably on pages 312-313), and fewer would have served better. There are also a number of "back of box" shots, which hardly seem as interesting to the reader as an in-game screenshot would be; in one case, almost an entire page is given over to a blown-up back-of-box shot of Maxwell Manor, which otherwise barely gets a mention in the main text.

Also worth mentioning is that screenshots do not always guarantee title mentions, and vice versa. In some cases, the vintage title being covered in a chapter is given many screenshots, whereas in other cases there are only one or two devoted to that game title. Some other mentioned titles are given a lot of text but no screenshot, such as Resident Evil, Metal Gear, and Half-Life. Other screenshots depict titles that are not even mentioned in the text (though they are still relevant to the subject at hand, as the captions generally make clear); examples include Silent Service, Blades of Steel and Mario Kart: Super Circuit. In places it often feels as if the authors are "making do" with the art resources available to them, rather than placing the images that would best suit the topic.

Whatever the reason for these sorts of issues, they present only the occasional bump in what is otherwise a very smooth and entertaining ride. The somewhat inconsistent coverage of titles means that readers looking to read about their particular favorite game may be in for a treat, or may be disappointed, depending on which particular game they're looking to read about. However, this is not that book. What Vintage Games is, is a four-decade retrospective on 25 games that have truly made a difference, and readers who expect just that (as you now do) will come away wholly entertained.

You can purchase Vintage Games from amazon.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

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No Monkey Island?! (5, Funny)

sys.stdout.write (1551563) | more than 5 years ago | (#28198809)

That game revolutionized insult sword fighting!

Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (4, Informative)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 5 years ago | (#28198907)

It and Maniac Mansion are listed on page 160 of the book [google.com] in the chapter on King's Quest. The author regards Monkey Island as one of the "greatest adventure games." I guess there's a difference between 'great' and 'vintage' although vintage usually means "having an enduring appeal; high-quality, classic."

I have a minor qualm with the title, I think it should be "Vintage Digital Games" as when I saw the title I thought "well, this should be difficult." But the cover sure illustrates they mean video games.

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (4, Insightful)

gnick (1211984) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199025)

Haven't read the book yet (just requested from library - too cheap for Amazon), but it's interesting that some of the iconic arcade classics missed out. Sure, we have Space Invaders, but what about Tron, Asteroids, Centipede, Dig-Dug, Paperboy? I donated a heckuva lotta quarters to my local Chuck E. Cheese as a kid just for the privilege. As far as the Atari games go, I might toss in Break-through and Warlock too just for helping open the door to more innovative controller ideas (like Centipede did for the stand-up arcade boxes). Somebody should be tossed to a lurking Grue.

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (2, Insightful)

fm6 (162816) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199229)

Notice that all the games listed are best known for their home console or computer versions. All the games you mention are arcade games; they did get ported to other platforms, but lost something in the process.

Still, you have a point. A book that claims to be about the most influential electronic games but completely ignores the arcade is kind of missing the boat.

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (2, Interesting)

gnick (1211984) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199415)

There was a lot of overlap - Even as popularity went. I played Super Mario Brothers (total Pitfall Harry ripoff!) mainly at home, but years after dumping a bunch of quarters into the arcade box. I only ever played Asteroids on my Atari, but I'm aware that it had an arcade presence.

Tron and Centipede, however, were pretty strictly arcade boxes for me. Break-through and Warlock I'm not sure I saw anywhere except for Atari.

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (1)

jank1887 (815982) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199799)

arcade Asteroids was much better than the atari version. something cool about the ghostly vector graphics

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (1)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199533)

Actually, I think Defender and Robotron:2084 are better known as arcade games, even if they were eventually ported to consoles and/or personal computers. Granted, those are listed in the on-line "Bonus Chapters" section, but even so, it makes gnick's point stronger.

I suppose one could argue that Asteroids wasn't really much of an innovation after Spacewar! (covered) and its years-ahead-of-its-time arcade version Space Wars [wikipedia.org] , but then that same argument could be used to eliminate Diablo in favor of Rogue, yet both of the latter are covered. *shrug*

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (4, Interesting)

umeboshi (196301) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199763)

Not only that, but they seem to have missed the boat on the older computer games as well. I can think of quite a few that should probably be on the list.

Questron - An interesting mixture of interface styles, embedded mini games, and probably the best finale in any game for years to come.

Karateka - A very interesting game with great music and graphics. Between this and the arcade game Kung Fu, we get the Street Fighter games, etc.

Project Space Station - A very good strategy/simulation/management game which had an easy to learn and use interface. Many strategy games of this era were unattractive due to the interface, but this program seems to have set the bar here.

Leaderboard Golf - A lot of my friends were really addicted to this game. It had 3d graphics and a decent physics engine. All of the extra courses and sequels to this game is a testament to it's innovativeness and popularity.

Hacker - A game before it's time. An exciting game where you break into a remote computer and send a robot on an involved spy mission. I'm not really sure how popular this game was, but I thought it was something that hadn't been tried before done well.

Wild Wild West (I'm not too sure about the name) - I think this is one of the first games with dialog and characters, which idea made it's way into future adventure games like Monkey Island. Depending on how you interact with the "npc", you would either satisfy it, scare it, or be drawn into a gunfight.

Elite! - I'm not going to bother to describe this, as I know most of y'all know what this is, and are probably wondering why it's not listed.

Little Computer People - It's possible that there would be no Sims games today if this nice program was never made.

Superbowl Sunday - I think that this was one of the games that influenced the sports team management games that have been seen since. (A lot of the Avalon Hill games and some of the SSI games suffered from difficult interfaces, which is something that I noted about with PSS.)

This is just a few from the top of my head, and I'm only thinking about c64 now, there are quite a few others games on other platforms that dramatically influenced future games.

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (1)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200405)

Of that list, I only remember Leaderboard Golf and Superbowl Sunday. Little Computer People sounds familiar, but nobody I knew had it.

I do remember Bounty Bob Strikes Back [bigfivesoftware.com] though. I'm pretty sure it's mostly to blame for my inability to complete anything I start these days.

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (1)

umeboshi (196301) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200555)

I remember that game, the sequel to miner 2049'er. I only played the first one.

There was a pretty nifty game for the c64 called Wizard, which was a puzzlish platform game. It was one of the first ones that I'm aware of that allowed you to create your own levels. The features of that game, spells obstacles and layout of the platforms, was something I thought to be very revolutionary at the time.

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (2, Interesting)

Chordonblue (585047) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200411)

I think any collection not mentioning 1987's amazing 'Dungeon Master' from FTL is incomplete. That game was well ahead of it's time. It was terrific on the Atari ST and Apple II GS, but it positively SHONE on the Amiga.

As if the gameplay weren't enough to get it into a list of this nature, the user interface itself should have.

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (1)

umeboshi (196301) | more than 5 years ago | (#28201033)

1987 is about the time I stopped playing with computer games. I held on to my c128 as my primary computer up until 1998. In fact, one of the reasons that I bought my first PC ten years ago was the fact that I had just found out that it would run a c64 emulator.

As a result, I missed out on many of the old DOS games, excepting the ones that I got a chance to play at a friends' houses. In a way that's been good for me, as I can now go back through and play ten years of games that I had missed using dosbox. I have been working on a frontend program to help keep track of the games:

http://dosbox-pykde.berlios.de/ [berlios.de]

The application is in bad need of being updated, as it's set to work with an older version of dosbox, and they seem to change their configuration in drastic ways from release to release. I may spend some time getting it workable with a newer release of dosbox here shortly, as I feel a slight urge after reading these comments to try out some of the DOS games that I have missed out on.

BTW, I always wanted an Amiga, but could never afford one. I would've liked to see what it was like to use one of those.

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (1)

Anonymous Struct (660658) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200957)

Wow.. I haven't thought about Project: Space Station in something like 20 years. If only I could've figured out how to keep my scientists from bickering with each other, I could have been a 9 year old director of the entire space program.

Might be 'Law of the West' for the gunfighting game. There wasn't a lot to do, but I remember it had a catchy tune.

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (2, Insightful)

kenp2002 (545495) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199819)

In defense of the author the games you listed with the exception of Paper Boy were not "game changing", popular yes, but game changing? Not so much.

Space Invaders didn't have any game changing aspect to it. Plently of ASCII console games existed prior to SI that had stuff like that. Compare missle command, Arkanoid, Space Invaders, Robotron, and at the most base level, still have a fundamental and common 2D structure. The top down shooting concept was not much different then any other 2D game. Centipede was innovative for the track ball, but you didn't see a deluge of track ball games as a result. Dig Dig was another popular, but not profound game. Paperboy on the other hand I must say was not only innovative, but also one if the earliest isometric view games (2.5D so to speak...)

Paddle controls\knobs and trackballs were innovative but the ancient Bowling game used a track ball before Centipede.

For a Top Down Shooter for innovation Spy Hunter or Zaxxon would be better choices for influential. Space Invaders influenced the video game industry, not gameplay I'd wager in the author's eyes. But that is my best guess as to their omission of those...

To be fair they also forgot MARBLE MADNESS and the still to this day unique 720 game.

Re:Mentioned as "Greatest Adventure Games" (1)

gnick (1211984) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200191)

There are a couple of games analogous to Marble Madness for the Wii that combine its (previously) unique and innovative gameplay with Nintendo's novel controller. And I'd put them more-or-less on a par (I spent quite a few hours playing Marble Madness). Agree on SI, but it not only made their list - It made their cover. It certainly meets the definition of 'Vintage', but I'm not sure about how much it shook up the world - It had far fewer 'clones' than some others despite being wildly popular. Spy Hunter's an excellent example - There may have been games like it before, but it set the stage for many developers trying to do the same thing better. Heck, even the early GTAs qualify.

Centipede was neat because it re-thought the control (even though Bowling came first, Centipede was more popular/iconic), but it was strictly arcade rather than home-console AFAIK. Break-through and Warlock, though, were really early steps toward outside-the-stick thinking for console games and were reasonably popular (Break-through at least).

Perhaps I'm straying away from 'vintage' and leaning toward 'game-changing'.

Re:No Monkey Island?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28198911)

"You fight like a dairy farmer!"

Re:No Monkey Island?! (1)

jank1887 (815982) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199829)

I'm shaking, I'm shaking.

Re:No Monkey Island?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28199981)

"You fight like a dairy farmer!"

Good, You fight like a cow!

Re:No Monkey Island?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28200041)

"How appropriate, you fight like a cow!"

Missing Game: Leisure Suit Larry (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28198869)

Where's Larry? The title that revolutionized sex gaming. Come on!

Re:Missing Game: Leisure Suit Larry (1)

mattack2 (1165421) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200333)

That is 'just' a graphical redo of a previous game.

Bill Budge's Pinball Construction Set (1, Insightful)

GPLDAN (732269) | more than 5 years ago | (#28198901)

That title arguably kept Electronic Arts going during a rough patch. Also missing is M.U.L.E. No list is perfect, but those are major omissions.

Re:Bill Budge's Pinball Construction Set (2, Insightful)

GPLDAN (732269) | more than 5 years ago | (#28198919)

Dammit - READ!

Pinball Construction Set is there. M.U.L.E. is not.

Re:Bill Budge's Pinball Construction Set (2, Interesting)

bennomatic (691188) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200945)

MULE was certainly super-cool, but I'm not sure that it changed the industry. I guess I could stretch to say that all resource-management games, like Warcraft, etc., inherit something from that game, but I'm not sure that it's true.

From that set of games, I'm surprised you left out Arcon. It also didn't change the industry as it didn't spawn its own genre, but man, it was cool. Like chess, but you've gotta battle it out for every space? How cool is that?!

Looks good (2, Funny)

Useful Wheat (1488675) | more than 5 years ago | (#28198909)

This is basically a list of my favorite games of all time, with the notable exception of John Madden Football. Seriously, what the heck? How is it they make 1 every year, and its a top seller? I've never understood this phenomenon, especially because they only record him saying about 5 things.

Now to be completely fair, in real life he only uses about 5 phrases, but they could have mixed it up a little.

But overall, it looks like a good read. I think I'll try to hunt down a copy.

Re:Looks good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28199165)

How is it they make 1 every year, and its a top seller?

It is because the same people who buy the previous year's game all return said game and then buy the new game. So, if one million people bought Madden 20XX, then the same one million people will buy Madden 20XX+1

Re:Looks good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28199211)

Where do you shop that has a 1 year open box return policy on software?

Re:Looks good (2, Insightful)

sys.stdout.write (1551563) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199337)

Oh don't hate on Madden..

Let's see if I can explain the phenoninom using an analogy you'll relate to. Let's say you're a really big fan of Bangbros pornography. All day all night, you watch those lovable fellows have sex with women who apparently have no qualms about getting in a stranger's van with a bunch of sweaty men.

Now you really like the videos you have, but at some point you think to yourself "wow, it'd sure be great to watch different women get into this stranger's van filled with sweaty men!". So you go to the Bangbros website and pay for this year's videos and have a whole new lineup to work with as you traverse into your darkened basement and furiously "choose your lineup" with "tight ends" and "wide receivers".

I hope this makes sense for you now.

Love,
Football Fans

Why Madden? (3, Informative)

mu51c10rd (187182) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199425)

I admit I have not played the Madden line of games since the 90's, but I can tell you why we preferred Madden to anything else starting in 92. Madden football focused on realism in the game, above how hard you can hit (NFL Blitz) or how well you can guess the other player's play (Tecmo SuperBowl). Madden in 93-94 even allowed various play formations, and tried to mimic the sport as accurately as possible. As technology improved, the game continued with trying to portray football as real as possible. That is what drew myself and my friends into it years ago. Although many football games have tried since (the 2K series, Joe Montana football, etc.), they were already behind the curve. I think EA made their sports niche with just that...realism.

Re:Why Madden? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28199879)

I liked the Dynamix football games in the 90s -- Front Page Sports, I think they were called. Seemed better than Madden and others at the time. But like you I haven't played any of them for a long time now.

Missing: Defender?! Gauntlet?! (4, Interesting)

Smidge207 (1278042) | more than 5 years ago | (#28198953)

Come on: those two games *defined* an entire culture of horizontal scrolling shoot-em-ups and God's-eye view dungeon rapid-fire raiding. For *fuck's sake* how many quarters did I blow on those two games in teh 80's? Prolly close to eight-thousand dollars worth....and the friggin' Baiters won every time.... '-(

And my green elf; he needs food...badly.

=Smidge=

Re:Missing: Defender?! Gauntlet?! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28199249)

You gay, fucking troll ass cock sucker. Get a life. I'll take a smidge of your asshole with my big cock.

Re:Missing: Defender?! Gauntlet?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28199979)

"Hi, my name is Smidge. FEED ME COCK! I love the cock! No pussy for me, just cock and ass. Thanks!"

No Leisure Suit Larry?! (1)

Tokolosh (1256448) | more than 5 years ago | (#28198973)

GTA and Sims for the price of one!

No Solitaire? No Tetris? (1)

Tokolosh (1256448) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199019)

Perhaps they are not games in the same sense, but their DNA can be found everywhere.

Can a foetus be injected into an egg yolk? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28198989)

None answered my question the last time I asked. I know this is a discussion forum on Vintage Games, but I think my behaviours are vintage as far as man has been alive and playing with women.

I've always wanted to ejaculate on a woman's period in a petri dish, wait 3 days, then install the fertilized egg into a chicken egg to keep it under a lamp for 4 months. Will it grow? Inquiring minds would like to know. Also of note, when I get realy randy I would dig a hole in the ground out beyond a line of trees and drop a couple cumwads and burry it: anyone ever see any of those walking tree men, or dendrites as they call them? I can almost swear that these new saplings have ears, maybe from me, and they can't be trusted to keep secrets (as I swore I wouldn't write any of this on slashdot, yet I did!)!

The Sims, SimCity... and Utopia is menioned where? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28198999)

Sorry, maybe I am getting a bit long in the tooth. I can still dust off the intellivision console and really enjoy a game of sea battle or utopia and walk away feeling like I really enjoyed it.

No Need to save, or worry about if I am playing enough for to keep my stats fresh. Just play the game, kill some time, and have some fun.

I miss gaming like that. I know it still exists, but it seems few and few between titles.

Re:The Sims, SimCity... and Utopia is menioned whe (2, Interesting)

ShadowBlasko (597519) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199197)

Why did it post that anon? Sorry, maybe I am getting a bit long in the tooth. I can still dust off the intellivision console and really enjoy a game of sea battle or utopia and walk away feeling like I really enjoyed it.

No Need to save, or worry about if I am playing enough for to keep my stats fresh. Just play the game, kill some time, and have some fun.

I miss gaming like that. I know it still exists, but it seems few and few between titles.

Re:The Sims, SimCity... and Utopia is menioned whe (1)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199297)

I know it still exists, but it seems few and few between titles.

There have been discussions, newspieces, even books written on the subject of casual gaming.

You might try one of the flash game sites out there... personally, I prefer Kongregate for my casual gaming fix, since it adds in the devilish achievements angle to keep me interested in some of the games.

Just to note, though... a lot of casual games seem to have been poorly playtested during development, and have issues with balance, difficulty, etc... but then again, a lot are developed by amateurs.

No reason to dust off the Intellivision, when you can just go to a web site for your fix, and avoid 'intellivision thumb'.

Re:The Sims, SimCity... and Utopia is menioned whe (2, Interesting)

tompaulco (629533) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199663)

I had the opportunity to buy "Intellivision Lives" for the PS2 the other day. It had Utopia on it as well as Sea Battle, Sub hunt, and others. It was only $10, but I was on a road trip and didn't get it. Now I could kick myself.

Unclear Focus! (-1, Offtopic)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199001)

Slashdot is great. It's started and/or run by Rob Malda. You can learn a lot about Linux here. A subset of Linux is ubuntu. (I never know how to capitalize that.) A colleage of mine is just starting to look at ubuntu. Anyone know if 9.04 is any good? But then there's the problems with Debian proper vs ubuntu... But back on topic! Slashdot is great.

Re:Unclear Focus! (3, Funny)

anjilslaire (968692) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199077)

         \|||/
         (o o)
,----ooO--(_)-------.
| Please            |
|   don't feed the  |
|     TROLL's !     |
'--------------Ooo--'
        |__|__|
         || ||
        ooO Ooo

Re:Unclear Focus! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28199267)

         \|||/  ?
         (o o)
,----ooO--(_)-------.
| don't feed the    |
|     TROLL's...    |
|         ...WHAT?  |
'--------------Ooo--'
        |__|__|
         || ||
        ooO Ooo

Re:Unclear Focus! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28199145)

Slashdot is great. It was started by Rob Malda but is now owned by the GNAA (Gay Niggers Association of America). You can learn a lot about mindless groupthink here. A colleague of mine is just starting to look at how horrendously slow the front page loads. Anyone know if the earlier version was any good? But then there's the problems with mindless sycophants and other losers with no lives...But back on topic! Slashdot is great.

No Sword of Fargoal? (2, Informative)

anjilslaire (968692) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199037)

I still play Sword of Fargoal today. http://www.fargoal.com/ [fargoal.com]

Re:No Sword of Fargoal? (1)

retchdog (1319261) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199363)

It's quite not the same. I can actually finish the new one...

Re:No Sword of Fargoal? (1)

jank1887 (815982) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199859)

agreed. you can cheat the death feature with the save game if you do it right.

Re:No Sword of Fargoal? (1)

retchdog (1319261) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200835)

I've noticed the save game occasionally glitches, but apart from that it just seems much easier (I think that the monsters get less movement per second).

If you're going to cheat, use the source (which is very well-commented and easy to read), and go whole-hog! I added descend/ascend keys which was kind of fun, for like 30 minutes. I also think that the amulets are far too rare, esp. amulet of light, so I upped the drop rate a bit.

Well the games at the beginning .. (2, Informative)

roguegramma (982660) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199063)

Well the computer games I played at the beginning were:
Empire, which started the Civilization path
Sentinel, which started nothing I know of
Populous, which started the concept of "god perspective games" for me
There were other games but these were too .. unique, odd and incentiveless to start something.
 

Re:Well the games at the beginning .. (2, Informative)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199235)

Populous, which started the concept of "god perspective games" for me

You never played Life [wikipedia.org] then?

Re:Well the games at the beginning .. (1)

umeboshi (196301) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199865)

I think that the Life game involves a deist philosophy, whereas something like Populous depends on divine intervention.

Re:Well the games at the beginning .. (2, Interesting)

LotsOfPhil (982823) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200077)

I haven't heard of Sentinel or Empire, but Populous is one of the earliest I remember playing. Add to the list Scorched Earth and Deathtrack. I remember getting a 286 and not being able to play Deathtrack because it was too fast :)

Re:Well the games at the beginning .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28200201)

Deathtrack link [abandonia.com]

mod Up (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28199153)

to llok into

Darklands? (1)

xpuppykickerx (1290760) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199155)

No Darklands either. This game consumed a lot of nights during high school. Super customizable characters and gameplay for that time. I'm trying to find a copy that I can run on DosBox or something similar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darklands_(video_game) [wikipedia.org]

Re:Darklands? (1)

Filip22012005 (852281) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199515)

It's available at Home of the Underdogs.

Re:Darklands? (1)

xpuppykickerx (1290760) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199871)

Thanks! I was linked to Underdogs from the main Darklands fan site and the site looked down. Working now.

Myst? (1)

Firehawke (50498) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199171)

Myst? Certainly one of the defining moments of its' short-lived genre, but I think I would have picked The Seventh Guest instead for that slot.

Grand Theft Auto? Vintage? (5, Insightful)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199177)

Grand Theft Auto III is only six years old. How's that Vintage? Especially with the rest of the list hovering around 15-20 years old, and each of them being more fun than GTA3 to boot?

Yep, Vintage (2, Funny)

qwerty shrdlu (799408) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199209)

And I'll bet some of you were hoping to finish High School before you grew old...

Re:Grand Theft Auto? Vintage? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28199253)

Especially with the rest of the list hovering around 15-20 years old, and each of them being more fun than GTA3 to boot?

This is true - although I enjoyed GTA3 overall, booting it wasn't particularly fun. GTA Vice City with that fake Commodore 64 screen while it booted was much better in that regard.

Re:Grand Theft Auto? Vintage? (1)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199891)

The book is about games that had the most impact, not the most fun games. Besides, the amount of fun that a game provides is highly subjective. Personally, I had a blast with GTA3 and I'm sure I was more entertained by that game than at least some of the old school classics.

I do agree that GTA3 being vintage is definitely stretch though.

Re:Grand Theft Auto? Vintage? (2, Interesting)

justinlindh (1016121) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200279)

Small difference, relatively, but GTA III is actually almost 8 years old and not 6 (it was released October 2001).

Vintage is an ambiguous term, so he gets to play loosely with it. Regardless of whether you thought the game was fun or not, it WAS the first notably high selling game that did an open world sandbox well. There are countless games today that mimic the design (the new Red Faction game released yesterday, for one example).

Like it or not, GTA III was very influential for its design and the controversy that the game itself generated for its content.

Re:Grand Theft Auto? Vintage? (1)

Patch86 (1465427) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200861)

Little known fact- vintage does not mean old.

In wine, vintage is just the term for the age of a wine. There is a 2000 vintage, a 2008 vintage, a 2009 vintage...every year is a vintage. When wine has a really good year, people say things like "2002 was a good vintage for French merlot" or something similar.

When people use it in common speech, what they really mean is "good vintage". A "vintage game" is just a sort of metaphor for "really notably good game". Nothing says it has to be old too.

As I read this... (2, Funny)

HetMes (1074585) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199195)

...I'm listening to the music of Warcraft II, just for the awesome! The Fury of the Furries Amiga Forest theme, another such classic. The only games I play are games of yore!

Tunnels of Doom (1)

sproketboy (608031) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199255)

Does it mention Tunnels of Doom? [bellsouthpwp.net] This was a game ahead of it's time. There's rebooted version here. [dreamcodex.com]

Re:Tunnels of Doom (1)

Rude Turnip (49495) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199707)

That looks like a high-tech version of Dungeons of Dagorath.

Quickly Back on The Shelf... (2, Insightful)

vjmurphy (190266) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199295)

I picked this up at the book store, noticed nothing about Nethack, and decided it was one of those books in which the author just wanted to talk about old games he liked, history be damned. That's not a bad thing, but that's also not what the title would lead one to think.

Re:Quickly Back on The Shelf... (2, Informative)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199593)

Well, he covers Rogue in the online chapters, and much as I love Nethack myself, I would quickly agree that Rogue was the real trendsetter and innovator here.

Re:Quickly Back on The Shelf... (2, Interesting)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200233)

In the review it says it talks about Rogue, progenitor of Nethack and all "Rogue-likes" (der). So who's just talking about their favorite games, history be damned? Okay, those were online 'bonus' chapters. Anyway.

There's only so much room in a book about an area of entertainment to mention/discuss all instances of that form of entertainment. And frankly the list presented here is one of the most varied and comprehensive I've seen in anything of this sort. Not everything can make it in, and focusing on "influence" willows out a lot of things that we might like to see because they are our favorite games.

Like, say, nethack, which I love, but lets be honest outside of inspiring other rogue-likes to add features and inspiring nerds to fail college in their attempts to Ascend, it's influence is limited. Diablo is much more influential in my view. Yes, Diablo was itself a graphical Rogue-like -- and I'd hope the Diablo chapter at least mentions Rogue, though obviously the author is aware of the game either way -- but it's Diablo, not Rogue, that others are apeing in the explosion of dungeon-crawl hack-and-slash games that followed. Diablo brought Rogue-like gaming to the masses. This is why it deserves a whole chapter, and frankly to be honest Nethack doesn't.

Where's Syndicate? (1)

kill -9 $$ (131324) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199311)

I was always a big fan of Syndicate. At the time it was pretty revolutionary in that you could pretty much interact with the entire environment in one way or another long before you hit the GTA series and what not.

I'm sure there'll be a lot more that folks can think of out here in Slashdot land.....

Re:Where's Syndicate? (1)

kill -9 $$ (131324) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199347)

You know what had another thought. What about E.T. for the 2600? Didn't that set the precedent for totally retarded games?

Re:Where's Syndicate? (1)

bennomatic (691188) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200977)

I don't know if it was first. Didn't the rock band Journey have a game first that was totally moronic?

Dune II, not C&C (2, Insightful)

SlashdotOgre (739181) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199367)

I find it interesting that Dune II was chosen over C&C. Dune II is definitely the origin of a lot of concepts in RTS, but I always found C&C (also by Westwood Studios) to be the more significant title of the genre (and I did own/play both on DOS). Recently I got the original C&C (now freeware) running in wine, and it still feels close to a modern RTS (I had just beaten C&C3). A couple years ago I tried playing Dune II again, and didn't get that feeling.

Overall that seems like a good list of vintage games. I would have like to have seen a representative from a couple dead genres like Mechwarrior (mech games) and something like Night Trap for FMV's games. Also, I do hope they mention Sonic in the Mario section.

I realize they had limited space. (2, Insightful)

bigtoy (170668) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199381)

I saw no mention of M.U.L.E. [wikipedia.org] in there anywhere. It is a vintage game and in my opinion introduced some interesting game mechanics, one of them being the simulated economy.

Some (probably all) genres need more history. (4, Interesting)

synth7 (311220) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199395)

For example, CRPGs don't all trace back to Ultima. Within that same age of gestation there were also such luminaries as Wizardry, Bard's Tale, Might & Magic, Phantasie, Questron, and others. In fact, I always kind of disliked the single-avatar system of Ultima/Questron and preferred the controlling a party of players ala Bard's Tale/Wizardry/Phantasie. Also, Questron was one of the first games that I came across that used mini-games for certain tests, which was quite novel.

I agree that the arcade was the birthplace of a lot of great titles and ideas, but the Apple ][, C=64, Amiga 500, and Atari ST all were fantastic petri dishes for the wild growth and speciation of all the games we know and love. I think some of the titles mentioned in the book can be traced back to much more fundamental roots and that in many cases those roots are plural, in the form of several good games that were synthesized into a transformative game title that broke through to the mass market.

I also agree that some of these games really aren't "vintage." If you can play it without digging out old equipment of finding an emulator, then it doesn't really qualify.

Re:Some (probably all) genres need more history. (2, Interesting)

Creepy (93888) | more than 5 years ago | (#28201057)

Wizardry, Bard's Tale, Might and Magic derived from Akalabeth's dungeons (Akalabeth was the prequel to Ultima and released in 1979). Questron and Phantasie mostly derived from Ultima, though yes, that was the first I remember mini-games in.

A couple of influential games I think are missing are Choplifter and Pitfall! Both were influential in gameplay and Choplifter was the first game to start as a computer game and become a video game (albeit rewritten and MUCH harder) and influenced some other games like Rescue Raiders and Armor Alley. Pitfall! was the first popular character based side scrolling game I remember, though some similar games came out the same year (Aztek comes to mind)

I always thought Super Mario Brothers was fairly derivative - basically it pulled a Blizzard, refining gameplay from many other games, including their own (like Space Panic, Donkey Kong, Pitfall!, and others). I personally think Lode Runner was at least as influential, albeit also as derivative (it also was ported to arcade).

Utopia could be considered both the first god game and sim game and is missing.

And how about Bosconian? Yes, the mostly forgotten game gave us... the continue timer. Sorry - probably not really worth a mention other than I loved that game ;)

    I also wonder if Cinematronics Rip Off (Star Thief was the mac version, and it had other names for other clones) pre-dates Defender or not. Both were 1980 and had a main goal of protecting rather than destroying. It also introduced 2 player co-op mode according to wiki's Tim Skelly page [wikipedia.org] and was the first game with flocking. Skelly also wrote Starhawk, the first game I remember seeing in (pseudo) 3d (released in 1977). Yes, those are all video games (first) rather than computer games, but so was Tetris.

Rating (1)

ManuelH (1303433) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199465)

rating: 8
8 / 10 ?
8 / 100 ?
8 / 5 ?
8 / 8 ?

Civilization? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28199481)

Civ I is pretty vintage by now, certainly more so than GTA III, yet I don't see any menion of it. How is that not covered, when both Doom and Wolfenstein get separate chapters?

Other things that I noticed conspicuously absent (at least from this writeup) include some of the killer Mac games like Strategic Conquest and Spaceward Ho! or Amiga games like Dungeon Master. They may be included in footnotes somewhere, but the book seems pretty console/PC oriented, when in fact some of the best "vintage games" were for Mac, Atari 400/800, Commodore 64/128, and Amiga.

Missing games - just to consolidate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28199493)

Whattabout the Atari color vector games? Tempest, et ce were the first attempts AFAIK to simulate a 3D space.

Console Only (5, Insightful)

kenp2002 (545495) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199553)

It would appear that the title would be better read "Vintage Console Games"

VGA Planets and L.O.R.D (Legend of the Red Dragon) where some of the earliest Time Share MMO type games only now being ressurected in the form of Mob Wars\Mafia Wars on places like Facebook.

Oddly one of the first "3D" space flight games "Star Voyager" for the NES is missing and would have even settled for Descent or Wing Commander for the first space combat games to really change the nature of flight games. Especially with the mention of Ultima but laps the Wing Commander series...

The Gold Box series of D&D games is also absent.

But most of all, oddly enough, where are the edutainment games from Math Munchers, Carmen Sandiego, and Oregon Trail? The edutainment section is absent...

Just some thoughts for the second release.

Also Battle Chess made Chess accessable to millions of players over the years and took Chess from stuffy to damn near cool as the Fonz for its time...

Lets not forget the niche area of historical sims that kept KOEI staff employed with Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Nobunga's Ambition.

Another lacking one is Populous now I think of it...

Dungeon Keeper, Tecmo's Deception...

Shin Mega whateverthehell it is called (Devil Summoner series) broke some new ground...

And let us not forget several games (regardless of theme) that contributed:

Password based continues
Battery Backup saves
light zappers and other specialized periphrials
First game with multi-layered backgrounds
Paper Mario being one of the first games to switch the whole perspective concept

What no gauntlet on of the first 4 player games I can think of?

Killer Instinct for first major use of pre-rendered 3D environments?

Mortal Kombat for the first grusome death option (fatalities) and as far as I can tell one of the first to have an option (hidden or not) to FINISH an opponent?

Rush series of arcade games I think were the first to use a force feedback steering wheel.. In fact I think the arm wrestling game was the first to use any form of force feedback....

If we are looking to measure games that 'change the nature of gaming' they have missed quite a few story telling options and some very odd exclusions.

Case in point, Bowling. One of the first games to use the over-grown track ball that golden tee owes it's sorry ass too...

Ikari warriors to use a rotating joystick?

I don't even know which game was the first to use analog controls for a joystick rather then digital...

How about the first arcade game that allowed players to save their game data on a card?

Such a minor sample of game changers...

Even from a content standpoint:

First to swear?
First to have someone die?
FIrst to have someone have children in the game?

Breaking the old literary norms of games change a lot and opened up a historical chance that game developers took to expand their story telling.

Lots of missed opportunities... I wait till a second revision...

Re:Console Only (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28200559)

It would appear that the title would be better read "Vintage Console Games"

12 out of 25 games listed were mainly known for the PC versions, while GTA3 was available on both PC and console.

VGA Planets and L.O.R.D (Legend of the Red Dragon) where some of the earliest Time Share MMO type games only now being ressurected in the form of Mob Wars\Mafia Wars on places like Facebook.

They are also just computerized versions of tabletop games that have been around for hundreds of years.

Oddly one of the first "3D" space flight games "Star Voyager" for the NES is missing and would have even settled for Descent or Wing Commander for the first space combat games to really change the nature of flight games. Especially with the mention of Ultima but laps the Wing Commander series...

Elite was released 2 years before Star Voyager and was so much better that people still play it today, while nobody has heard of Star Voyager.

Killer Instinct for first major use of pre-rendered 3D environments?

Um, no that would be Myst, 1 year earlier.

Mortal Kombat for the first grusome death option (fatalities) and as far as I can tell one of the first to have an option (hidden or not) to FINISH an opponent?

Mortal Kombat included exaggerated gore to make up for that fact that it's gameplay was worse than Street Fighter 2. This is not innovative. At the time, movie producers had been doing that for 10 years or more.

Re:Console Only (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28200631)

It covers 25 games, I see 6 console games, perhaps you should have played more of those edutainment games?

Re:Console Only (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28200707)

I don't even know which game was the first to use analog controls for a joystick rather then digital...

probably a flight sim.

Marathon (1)

eyrieowl (881195) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199673)

I keenly remember jealously watching my Mac fanatic roommate playing Marathon while I was playing Doom on my PC. Doom deserves to be on the list for its wide impact, but Marathon, I think, has had a far bigger impact on today's game world. It went much further in combining the puzzle and FPS aspects of gameplay, and the legacy, continued in the Halo series, is tremendous.

Where are the MMO's? (1)

Tripledub (951046) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199691)

I can't believe there is no EverCrack! I mean seriously?

zOrk (1)

themib (315187) | more than 5 years ago | (#28199739)

Although not specifically mentioned in the article hopefully they mention Zork and Kings Quest.

What? (1)

jDeepbeep (913892) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200071)

No Sokoban?

missed a few? (1)

codevark (1070362) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200167)

Umm... what about Temple of Ra on the early Macs, and Dungeon Master on the Amiga? Maybe ToR was the first graphic, 1st-person "3d" dungeon crawl? And DM used sound incredible effectively - I remember staying up late, and being positively creeped out when I *knew* a purple worm was around a corner.. and I could hear it getting nearer.. and I knew I was trapped.. For that matter, what about all those insane Amiga games from Psygnosis/Psyclapse like Shadow of the Beast, Killing Game Show, Stryx, etc. Or, one of my favorites, David Braben's Virus (AFAIK, the first 3D 3rd-person shooter/flightsim with real physics), or his later Elite, which spawned an entire genre of space combat/exploration/trading games. At least he got Dune II right. Anyone ever play Chamber of the Sci-Mutant Priestess? OK, so it was basically a puzzle game, but it had the hottest cover chick of 1989, and in what other game do you get to be accompanied by a little talking, floating foetus? It's all coming back to me now... :) how about Archipelagos? Populous and Powermonger? Midwinter? endless fun... WTF! WHERE'S LEMMINGS? We sold a billllion of those, BITD. I still play a lot of the old Amiga games, plus Diablo, Diablo II, BFME2, NWN, Tachyon, Outpost, et al., plus some of the browser games like Pardus and Urbandead (which is great because you can only play for ~5 minutes a day so you never get yelled at, too much). AFAIK, it sounds like someone mixed up vintage, important, and best-selling somewhere along the way. Games like GTA are really boring to me. Maybe it's all the shiite. Maybe it's because "the more you drive, the less intelligent you are". Maybe I should read the book ;)

What was this game called? (1)

bigredradio (631970) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200185)

I remember there being a game for the commodore 64 that was a text-based adventure game.

Questions like: You are standing in a cave and it is dark. What do you do? Answer: Light torch. Response: You do not have a torch. etc....

Anyone remember the name of those games?

Re:What was this game called? (1)

jDeepbeep (913892) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200255)

I remember there being a game for the commodore 64 that was a text-based adventure game.

Questions like: You are standing in a cave and it is dark. What do you do? Answer: Light torch. Response: You do not have a torch. etc....

Anyone remember the name of those games?

That's not Zork is it?

Re:What was this game called? (1)

klashn (1323433) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200453)

The Hobbit was one of those games for the C64, but it had graphics so I guess it doesn't count... One game that I played as a kid was: African Adventure: In Search of Dr. Livingston.. http://www.lemon64.com/?mainurl=http://www.lemon64.com/games/details.php%3FID%3D4076 [lemon64.com] About all I can remember is spears being thrown at me!

Re:What was this game called? (2, Interesting)

umeboshi (196301) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200457)

Ha ha!! There were so many of those, it's impossible to list them all.

The best, and most popular were the Infocom games, where failure to light a torch, lantern, match, etc. would put you in danger of being eaten by a grue (a theme that spanned the whole lineup, regardless of genre).

You can find the Infocom games here:

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3398113/Infocom_Universe_Bootleg [thepiratebay.org]

Pirated, but it's very hard to get the actual copies of the games these days, and the items that came packaged with the game were essential in completing those games (and also very enjoyable to read).

While the link above may not sit well with you, since it's to a torrent site, the original Zork trilogy has been released as freeware, and you can find them here:

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/Infocom/ [csd.uwo.ca]

Text based interactive fiction was very popular on the old 8bit computers (one reason was that it was easier to port to the multiple different home computers around at that time) and there are too many different ones to be able to identify the game you played. The Infocom games are possibly the cream of the crop in this area.

Also, interactive fiction is still alive and you can get all sorts of great games here:

http://ifarchive.org/ [ifarchive.org]

Some of these are better than other ones, so be sure to read the ratings and reviews. A few of them match or exceed the quality present in the old Infocom games.

Re:What was this game called? (1)

bennomatic (691188) | more than 5 years ago | (#28201051)

Before Zork, there was Adventure, a port of a mainframe-based game that I knew as EEB, which I enjoyed playing on the terminal of one John Holdren, Obama's science advisor, when my family would visit his place when I was a small child. It allowed only two-word inputs, and inspired many, many games, including the Zork series referenced by others.

Shortly after moving to my new home town, I found myself looking for a friend's house and getting hopelessly lost, going through one intersection three times from different angles before realizing that it was the same intersection. The line, "You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike", from that game came to mind.

Wow. Madden but no mention of its predecessor? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28200243)

Techmo Super Bowl anyone? Madden ripped that awesome game off big time.

Madden-ing (2, Informative)

neo (4625) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200403)

He seems to have missed the very heart of Madden, which was Bethesda Soft's Gridiron. Most people are unaware that the original engine for Madden was bought and it's extremely hard to find the original Gridiron on any abandon ware sites because of this. The heart of Gridiron was it's inertial engine. Players were represented as dots and accelerated at a speed based on of their Speed stat (one of two stats, the other being Strength). You could create you own plays with a way-point system and a flexible set of commands like run-block-right or call from the pre-set plays in the game. The entire game was revolutionary, but is sadly lost to the legacy of it's licensing.

All Your Bass are Belong to Les Claypool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28200467)

"Why did it post that anon? Sorry, maybe I am getting a bit long in the tooth. I can still dust off the intellivision console and really enjoy a game of sea battle or utopia and walk away feeling like I really enjoyed it."

Long in the tooth, long in the tooth, mother nature's greedy when you're long in the tooth. Ya ain't afraid of dyin' 'cause you're terrified of youth, but I'm gettin' rather long in the tooth.

Anonymity is a virtue in this, the iron Age.

So...Jellikit?

What About (1)

SnarfQuest (469614) | more than 5 years ago | (#28200899)

I'd think you should at least mention some other important games:

pong: Really started the whole video game thingey.
Commander Keen: Showed what graphics could really be done on a PC.

And what of Kroz may I emnquire? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28201035)

There is ZORK and ROGUE, what the hell happened to KROZ? The MSDOS extended text mode game by Scott Miller that gave you a graphical adventure before the advent of PC Graphics - so great at the time. Someone even made a new version at www.kingdomofkroz.com.

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