×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Motion Control To Lengthen Console Hardware Cycles

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the how-does-the-konami-code-work-with-no-buttons dept.

Input Devices 160

With the recent E3 demonstrations of new motion-based control for consoles — Microsoft's Natal, Sony's Motion Controller, and Ubisoft's camera-based system for the Wii — analysts now expect the current console generation to last longer than normal. Microsoft exec Shane Kim said he expects the Xbox 360 to last until around 2015, in part due to Natal and new services available through Xbox Live. Signal Hill's Todd Greenwald thinks this cycle may not need to end at all: "Microsoft and Sony have invested so much in their current hardware line, as have third party publishers, that we don't think any party is seriously interested in throwing away these investments and starting over from scratch. For all of these reasons, we think this cycle will last longer than those in the past, and don't see new hardware coming until 2011 at the earliest, and 2012 to 2013 more likely (if at all — if new services like OnLive take off, or if Xbox Live and PlayStation Network become more and more robust, there may not be a need for another console cycle).'"

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

160 comments

2015? (2, Insightful)

Starcom8826 (888459) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219747)

An xbox wouldn't even last until 2015...

Re:2015? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28219785)

Don't worry MSFT will extend warranties few times before that time ;) RRoD, E74, something new...

Re:2015? (2, Insightful)

Lord Ender (156273) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221537)

Well, console graphics already look dated. Waiting until 2015 for the next version would be a big boost to PC gaming. NVIDIA and AMD sure aren't going to stop releasing graphics hardware, so people who want a modern gaming experience will have no choice but to go to the PC.

Good enough is? (4, Insightful)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219751)

Have we really reached the point where "Good enough is"
Is the XBox 360/PS3 really the pinnacle of console gaming for the next 5 years?
With the Wii selling bucketloads more initially than anything else, despite having inferior graphics hardware, have the other two finally realised that Faster chips, bigger numbers and impressive specs are really just nothing more than macho posturing?

Re:Good enough is? (4, Interesting)

hattig (47930) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219831)

Both Microsoft and Sony can create faster variants of their existing hardware, but mandate that new games are backward compatible.

I.e., they can release a PS3.5 as the PS4 that can handle 1080p60* gaming (possibly in 3D with a 3D monitor) based around the same hardware, just running faster or with more resourced. Games detect the console, run in 720p on the PS3 without some fancy graphical effects (assuming physics runs on the SPU in Cell and the new one has ~30SPUs compared with 7 in the current PS3), lower resolution textures (due to less RAM), etc.

Sony always make a console last 10 years anyway, but they also release the new high end 5 or 6 years into that lifespan whilst the previous model mops up the low end of the market and new poor markets around the world. I think it would be suicide to not build upon the hardware base in the PS3 - going with a new architecture would be a folly given their financial situation.

* I know that the PS3 can do this, but most games are in 720p, if that.

Nintendo DS games with DSi extras (2, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220357)

Both Microsoft and Sony can create faster variants of their existing hardware, but mandate that new games are backward compatible.

As can Nintendo. Most Game Boy Color games early in the GBC's lifetime could display in grayscale on a Game Boy Pocket, and Nintendo has stated that some new DS games will have extra capabilities when inserted into a Nintendo DSi system of the correct region.

Re:Good enough is? (2, Interesting)

The Nipponese (875458) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219849)

Thankfully we've come to the point where network firmware upgrades keep the the console UX fresh. On top of that, Microsoft has been gradually adding specs to the 360 over the years. I am constantly surprised by the number of people who "just bought another one" because their previous 360 was lacking HDMI, or just didn't want to go through the hassle of M$ replacing it after falling prey to the RRoD. How long will be before M$ just says, "ok, let's add a new GPU to the existing hardware and call it the Ultra model?"

Re:Good enough is? (1)

Jurily (900488) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219851)

Is the XBox 360/PS3 really the pinnacle of console gaming for the next 5 years?

The hardware is good enough for good games. It has been since the Commodore 64. The problem is, games are more and more boring.

Re:Good enough is? (3, Insightful)

Tom (822) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219883)

The hardware is good enough for good games. It has been since the Commodore 64. The problem is, games are more and more boring.

Actually, I disagree in part.

Some really good games have only become possible with better hardware. Except that graphics hardware comes last in that list. But more memory and CPU speed have allowed for more complex games. A game like Oblivion or Fallout 3 would not have been technically possible on the C64, even if you would've been happy with Bards Tale style graphics.

Some genres just weren't possible on the 8-bits (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220377)

The hardware is good enough for good games. It has been since the Commodore 64.

Could the Commodore 64 have run a first-person shooter like the Doom or Quake or Unreal series in real time? (Probably not; no 3D rasterizing hardware nor sufficiently fast CPU.) Could the Nintendo Entertainment System have run a social simulator like The Sims or Animal Crossing? (Probably not; enough battery-backed RAM on a cartridge to save the state of a town was cost prohibitive during the NES's commercial era.)

Re:Some genres just weren't possible on the 8-bits (1)

tchuladdiass (174342) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221183)

The original Doom didn't use hardware 3D -- I remember playing it on a 286 system with ease. Of course, the graphics were 320x200, and the most basic of 3D effects. But that was all software driven.

Also, I'd count Flight Simulator in as a 3D game. The original one by Bruce Artwick ran on Commodore, Atari, 8088 PCs, etc. And the 3D in that was only one step down from what was in Doom (polygon graphics without a texture overlay, but with light source direction).

Re:Some genres just weren't possible on the 8-bits (1)

Mprx (82435) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221489)

Doom 1 needed a 386 or higher to run, and a 486 or higher for acceptable framerate.

Hard to render in software at that clock speed (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221571)

Commodore 64 [had] no 3D rasterizing hardware nor sufficiently fast CPU.

The original Doom didn't use hardware 3D

I know Doom used software rendering on an i486 or high-end i386DX CPU. But that's not so easy on a MOS Technology 6510 CPU clocked at 1 MHz.

Also, I'd count Flight Simulator in as a 3D game. The original one by Bruce Artwick ran on Commodore, Atari, 8088 PCs, etc. And the 3D in that was only one step down from what was in Doom

But could the C64's CPU handle complex enough enemy meshes at high enough frame rate to make a twitch shooter like Quake 3 Arena?

Re:Good enough is? (1)

Deag (250823) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221901)

Really the commodore 64 met all your requirements? Really? Do yourself a favor, take of the rose tinted glasses, and play a modern game for a while. You can pause the game and wait for half an hour before you can play it if it makes you more comfortable.

Re:Good enough is? (2, Insightful)

Balinares (316703) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220031)

> Have we really reached the point where "Good enough is"

No. I'd say we reached it one generation ago. More precisely: one generation ago is when we've reached the point where style matters more than polycount. Not saying that next-gen games aren't awfully pretty: some are. What I'm saying, though, is that there are many ways to go for pretty, and polycount and high-resolution aren't fundamental to a good number of those. See Okami, for instance.

I suspect this is the lesson Nintendo learned. Last generation, they had (arguably) the best hardware, and while they made the most money of all three console hardware makers (owing to their policy not to sell at a loss), the GameCube is not a terribly big commercial success. So they went a different road this time.

Re:Good enough is? (5, Insightful)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220179)

Sorry, it's a hell of a lot more than macho posturing.

The GFX on the Wii look pretty poor on a decent sized 1080p capable panel. The Wii is sorely underpowered for today's display tech.

Now, it's still good fun, but I really don't buy into this horrible fanboyish meme that seems to hae taken hold, that the two are somehow exclusive. You CAN have both. There is no reason that bad graphics make good games. A Wii or other machine with Wii-like controllers and Wii-like games but with and updated GFX hardware would be great.

Re:Good enough is? (4, Insightful)

MoonBuggy (611105) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220311)

The problem is that the two often are exclusive. Games cost a lot to make and it's easy to blow the entire budget making something look spectacular and then realise there's nothing left to actually make it fun. Similarly, when you're restricted on the graphics front by less powerful hardware, you're forced into making games with selling points other than how they look.

Obviously it's not always the case, there are exceptions to both rules and I would never be one to argue against better looking games as long as they are still fun to play, but there is a somewhat sensible reason behind the 'bad graphics' argument.

Re:Good enough is? (2, Informative)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220531)

Oh sure. But I'm not advocating photo-realistic Wii Tennis here! Just a few more pixels would be nice, some more anti-aliasing, that sort of stuff. At the moment quite a few of the games look blocky on a 1080p capable screen, even when using the component/576 mode.

Re:Good enough is? (2, Interesting)

flitty (981864) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221759)

Wish I had mod points for you. I'm not looking for Gears of War Tennis, I just expect my oblong sphere shaped Mii head not to be a jaggy-mess that can only be rendered in 480p. Even updating to something such as a Wii+, with HDMI and able to render current Wii games in 1080p would keep the Wii alive for a couple more years. Even Wii emulators have been able to do this (there is a youtube video out there of SSBM in 1080p, even though it's youtube, so you can't really tell), so a hardware bump would be appreciated.

Re:Good enough is? (1)

arkhan_jg (618674) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221057)

I'd be quite happy with the existing wii style, i.e. broadbrush stylized cartoony style (wii tennis, mario galaxy, boom blox, little king's story), but running at a higher res. You don't need to turn a game into Gears of War 2 or Alan Wake in order to get a nice looking high res game that doesn't go all blocky and hard to see on a 1080p panel - so some sort of wii 2, with backwards compatibility but a gruntier gpu and anti-aliasing built in would still be nice to see sometime before 2015.

On the other hand, PCs are definitely pulling ahead of the consoles again in the graphics horsepower stakes, and it will hopefully be a shot in the arm for the platform if AAA titles look a lot better on the PC (or even has some good exclusives that just aren't possible on the consoles) for a few years.

Re:Good enough is? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221607)

it will hopefully be a shot in the arm for the platform if AAA titles look a lot better on the PC (or even has some good exclusives that just aren't possible on the consoles)

PC versions of games pretty much always look better than their console counterparts if you have good hardware, even if the only reason is a better resolution and/or framerate. Now that all consoles are networked and have decent storage space (though not all as standard yet, Xbox a HDD is optional, Wii I'm not sure how much space it has but it probably isn't more than 8GB or so.. PS3s are guaranteed to have a minimum of 20GB, though I upgraded mine from 40 to 320).

So I don't see what you could do on a PC that you can't do on a console these days. With all the funky control systems coming out for consoles, I'd actually say it's going to be the other way round for a few years - there isn't a standard 3D motion control system for PCs, so any game developer would also have to develop their own input system. Perhaps a few developers will band together and create some kind of motion controller standard so that PCs can play catch-up. MS are bound to release their system for Windows versions of their games anyway..

Re:Good enough is? (2, Informative)

Xugumad (39311) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220657)

> The GFX on the Wii look pretty poor on a decent sized 1080p capable panel.

They look like a smeared mess, IMHO.

What bothers me isn't that it can't do HD, but that it doesn't even do an on-board upscale. If it did the upscale as graphics were written into the image buffer, it could get a MUCH better upscaling than any TV could do to the content, by understanding it better.

Re:Good enough is? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221511)

But the SCART or component cables that the Wii outputs through can't actually support that high a resolution (AFAIK, may be wrong), so it is the responsibility of the display itself to do any smoothing/upscaling. The Wii could do some anti-aliasing, but not actual 'upscaling' unless it has an HDMI connection.

Re:Good enough is? (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221543)

Component cables sure can, the other consoles can do it through them. And the Wii component leads can do 576p, which is a little better, but still not great.

Re:Good enough is? (2, Insightful)

bwalling (195998) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221047)

Two thoughts: First, it's not 720 or 1080, but the Wii really doesn't look that bad. Outside of the first 10 minutes of playing any game, I generally forget completely about the quality of the graphics. It's a first impression that doesn't mean much. The same actually goes for the motion controls - they make it easier to learn, but that only matters for a short period. After that, I'm just playing the game. Second, both paradigms have their problems. With the Wii, sometimes going ga-ga over motion controls leads to crappy games. With the PS3/360, sometimes going ga-ga over graphics leads to crappy games.

Re:Good enough is? (3, Insightful)

CoccoBill (1569533) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220367)

Have we really reached the point where "Good enough is"

No, we haven't. As we know, both the PS3 and the Xbox360 are struggling with true 1080p content, most games advertized as 1080p actually run at a horizontal resolution lower than 1920. We need faster consoles still to take full advantage of the current FullHD displays.

Obviously none of this has anything to do with how good the actual games are, and as Nintendo has shown quite vividly, the actual playability of the games matter more than eye candy. However, I don't see these two issues to contradict each other one bit, why can't we have games that are creative, fun AND look good?

Re:Good enough is? (3, Insightful)

Deag (250823) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221717)

Well "Good enough" for now. The last update to consoles brought HD compatibility with the now standard HD TV, and good use of internet connection. Without both of those consoles would look like backward technology.

But we certainly haven't reached good enough for gaming in general. Games do look good enough, but the worlds they simulate need more power.
For example, go to the top of a building in GTA IV and look into a street in the distance, it is empty. That game does a good job of having an illusion of a busy city, but it really is just that. Four blocks away from you there is nothing.

Wouldn't it be great if every brick in every building was simulated, and having ten million entities walking around the city with you, rather than the 50 odd that follow you around at the moment.

Of course you don't need all this to have a fun game, some of the better games on the 360 are geometry wars and braid, both of which are 2D. And the success of the Wii speaks for itself.

But I think it would be sad if the development of more immersive environments stalled here.

That early? (3, Funny)

Daemonax (1204296) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219755)

I'm still waiting for the price of a PS3 to come down to a ridiculous price, right now they have a ludicrous price.

Re:That early? (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219889)

Don't feel bad. I'm still waiting for a price drop on the PS2. ;)

Re:That early? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220403)

Don't feel bad. I'm still waiting for a price drop on the PS2. ;)

You can probably pick one up on eBay for cheap. Or do you live in a country with prohibitive import duties on consumer electronics, like a few countries in South America?

Re:That early? (1)

jgtg32a (1173373) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221289)

They just dropped to $100 from $120 I think its going to be a little while longer before another price drop. I'm thinking about picking one up, but I did just upgrade my computer so I need to revisit the PS2 emulator which has made great progress.

Re:That early? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28222009)

Barf: They've gone to plaid.

OnLive making up for Hardware ageing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28219757)

"if new services like OnLive take off, or if Xbox Live and PlayStation Network become more and more robust, there may not be a need for another console cycle" --

How would great online service and downloadable content make up for the hardware staying the same? Thats like saying "Hey, we have the internet now: where people can download games and movies instead of going to the store to buy them. Lets just stop making faster CPU's and GPU's and let people be content with what they have."

Blu-Ray... (1, Flamebait)

VinylRecords (1292374) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219789)

I don't think I'll care about my PS3 having a motion sensor. I only play fighting games, Metal Gear Solid, and Ratchet & Clank. No real need or want for motion control from me. I have a Wii and I barely touch the thing anymore (wow I just typed that then paused then laughed) and won't until Mario Galaxy 2 comes out.

The reason my PS3 has longevity is because it plays Blu-Rays, it won the format war, and unless some new disc type comes along or digital downloads with all of the extra content of a BD come along my PS3 will be around for quite some time playing fighting games and serving as my BD player.

Motion control is just a gimmick and a casual consumer driven aspect of consoles. The life blood of gaming, less casual, more hardcore gamers, are the ones who play games like Oblivion, Unreal Tournament, Starcraft, Diablo, etc. because you aren't going to see companies like Blizzard all of the sudden shifting their entire focus to motion control games and fans aren't demanding it either. If SONY and MS are going to focus entirely on casual mommy daddy crowds and really young children then I will be trashing my consoles and going entirely back to PC gaming (aside from using my PS3 as a BD player and my Wii/360 as coasters).

Seriously, Chrono Trigger, God of War, Virtu Fighter, these games are long term titles and classics because they were built to me amazing from the ground up. People still play the SNES for Chrono Trigger. MS and SONY honestly think that motion controller = instant classics?

We saw Resident Evil 4 come out on the Wii with rave reviews for its new motion controlling scheme. And where did that put Resident Evil 5? Oh yeah on the 360 and PS3. Stop trying to steal Nintendo's kiddie and casual fan base and appeal to your more active crowd please SONY and MS.

Re:Blu-Ray... (1, Insightful)

GreenTech11 (1471589) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219847)

The life blood of gaming, less casual, more hardcore gamers, are the ones who play games like Oblivion, Unreal Tournament, Starcraft, Diablo, etc.

Hardcore gamers the lifeblood of gaming! The wii has been incredibly sucessful because it allows people to pick up a controller and play. By being the cheapest console, Nintendo sacrificed hardcore gaming for casual gamers, and earned bucketloads off it.

Re:Blu-Ray... (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220195)

Yes they did.

However, was there not research showing that the attach rate (i.e. frequency of game buying) was very much lower for casual/Wii gamers? Making the Wii continue to pay might be difficult.

Re:Blu-Ray... (1)

runlevelfour (1329235) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220339)

THIS! Nicely done Nursie, this is the reason why console sales are deceiving. Sure the Wii might be outselling the other consoles, but the Wii is sucking wind on peripherals and games post console purchase. It is easy to think that the Wii is doing awesome because everyone wants one. Problem is everyone wants a Wii and the games it comes with. It would be interesting to see some numbers to determine where Sony/Microsoft stand as far as the rest of the equation is concerned (profit in totality not just hardware). I am old school a bit, I think since games couldn't sell on how realistic or detailed they were developers were forced to be more creative, and it tended to weed out developers who didn't love the craft to begin with. That has all changed as the video game industry has become big money and everyone wants a slice. While there are some really great titles out there, we have a much larger selection to distract us, lots of developers now use pretty graphics to cover up design flaws, and every slime bucket who would screw the industry for money now has their greedy little fingers in it. This definitely has deteriorated the quality and attachment rate as gamers are now swept up into what I think is worse than the fashion industry.

The Wii I believe has committed the same crime as the pretties-over-substance crowds that Nintendo fanboys deride constantly. I am of the opinion that the Wii and the Touch Screen on the DS really are gimmicks; more creative (and successful?) gimmicks than their competitors yet gimmicks just the same. Graphics aside there really are not that many compelling games on the Wii. A few would be nice to play but it seems a lot of leftovers and shovelware ends up on that console; the former trying to broaden the demographic appeal, and the latter to make a buck on the motion gimmick to non-gamers who don't know any better. Don't get me wrong I loved the Gamecube. I think it had hands down the best controller ever created for a console. Problem is Nintendo took that old console and instead of improving upon it, decided to go the novelty route by shoehorning it into a smaller box and tied the gimmicky wii-mote to it. Worst part is if you ever bring any of these criticisms up to a Wii owner they get offended as if you just wiped your ass with their family bible. Now it appears that Microsoft is jumping on that bandwagon and it makes me very sad.

Re:Blu-Ray... (2, Informative)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221385)

I have not played a single DS game where the touch screen is a gimmick, it is almost always unused (e.g. Mario Cart DS), and alternate control method that may or may not be better (e.g. advanced wars), or a fantastic edition (e.g. tap for backup item in NSMB). The Wiimote is a different story though often it is used as a very fun gimmick.

As for attach rates:
http://vgchartz.com/aweekly.php [vgchartz.com]

This is the American charts, it has the attach-rate at about the same as the PS3 and lower than the 360, of course arguments can be made to drop the Nintendo one by 1 or 2, it is still pretty fricken high in raw numbers of sales. If you subtract out 1 from the attach-rate (for Wii Sports) you end up with 150 million to XBOX 360's 170 Million, and PS3s 70 million. This is in the most 360 heavy region (North America).

Where Nintendo really makes their money though is software. Taking out Wii-play and Wii-sports they still sell more than EA on many weeks, and without licensing fees. Nintendo dominates in total money in the industry by such a huge amount that it isn't even funny. As far as the games industry goes Nintendo is a shrewd company, that is miles ahead of the rest.

Even with the Came Cube they were a major publisher by raw numbers, this is competing against companies selling for XBOX, PS2, and Computers.

Wii Points attach rate? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220445)

was there not research showing that the attach rate (i.e. frequency of game buying) was very much lower for casual/Wii gamers?

Does this include only retail titles or also VC and WiiWare games purchased with Wii Points?

Re:Blu-Ray... (4, Informative)

RedWizzard (192002) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220851)

Yes they did.

However, was there not research showing that the attach rate (i.e. frequency of game buying) was very much lower for casual/Wii gamers? Making the Wii continue to pay might be difficult.

That's a myth.

From Wikipedia:

Best selling PS3 games:

  1. Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (3.31 million)
  2. MotorStorm (3.31 million)
  3. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (3 million shipped)

Xbox 360 games selling more than 3.31 million:

  1. Halo 3 (8.1 million)
  2. Gears of War (5 million, may include PC version)
  3. Gears of War 2 (5 million)
  4. Grand Theft Auto IV (4.074 million approximately)
  5. Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (3.772 million approximately)
  6. Call of Duty: World at War (3.35 million approximately)

Wii games selling more than 3.31 million:

  1. Wii Sports (45.71 million)
  2. Wii Play (22.98 million)
  3. Wii Fit (18.22 million)
  4. Mario Kart Wii (15.4 million)
  5. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (8.43 million)
  6. Super Mario Galaxy (8.02 million)
  7. Mario Party 8 (6.72 million)
  8. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (4.52 million)
  9. Link's Crossbow Training (3.76 million)
  10. Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (3.4 million)
  11. Animal Crossing: City Folk (3.38 million)

So the Wii has 5 games that have sold more than any game on either the PS3 or the Xbox 360.

Looking at it another way, the top 10 PS3 games have sold a total of 21.4 million copies, the top 10 Xbox 360 games have sold a total of 29 million copies and the 10 Wii games have sold a total of 133 million copies. The consoles themselves have sold 21.3, 28, and 50 million copies each respectively. So for the Wii, excluding Wii Sports, that's 87 million top 10 games for 50 million consoles: 1.7 games per console. The other two consoles manage only 1 top 10 game per console.

In terms of total games, PS3 has sold 94 million and the Wii has sold 353 million. Not sure about the Xbox 360. So that's 4.4 games per PS3 and 7 games per Wii (6 excluding Wii Sports).

Clearly, the idea that the Wii has a lower "attach" rate is pure BS. It might have been true initially but now the attach rate is significantly higher for the Wii.

Re:Blu-Ray... (1)

tuffy (10202) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221281)

In addition, a console with vastly more hardware sales than its competitors is naturally going to have a lower attach rate. For example, the Wii sells about twice as many hardware units as either the 360 or PS3 per month in the US. But since these new owners start from 0 games (not counting the bundled Wii Sports), the attach rate falls behind the higher ratio of longtime owners on the 360 or PS3 who've had more time to get more games.

But in absolute sales terms, Wii sells a lot more software, both 1st and 3rd party, than its competitors. And for a developer trying to recoup production costs, the total sales are what really matter.

Re:Blu-Ray... (1)

bilbravo (763359) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221719)

Did anyone else notice that all the Nintendo games mentioned are first party games? I always thought that was exaggerated, but I guess it has some backing evidence.

Re:Blu-Ray... (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221935)

Wii Sports comes with the Wii - it shouldn't count. Likewise Wii Play always comes with a new controller so shouldn't count either, don't think either of them are sold separately (what would be the point?).

As for the rest, that's all valid. And note that Gran Turismo 5: Prologue is about half the price of a normal game, so it won't make so much profit. Would be interesting to see how many the real GT 5 sells.

Re:Blu-Ray... (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219903)

It's a cultural change, games requiring motion. In ten years, any game controlled by a gamepad will be considered unplayable, and gamers will be known for fine physiques. I've been wanting this to happen for a long time. Why can't your computer be powered partly by a bicycle wheel, while the computer monitors your exercise and requests power from time to time? Don't pedal when the computer tells you to, and your computer shuts down. Expansion kits for arms and torso exercises.

Oh, right - this discriminates against the disabled. Well, it was a good idea while it lasted.

How many watts? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220473)

Why can't your computer be powered partly by a bicycle wheel, while the computer monitors your exercise and requests power from time to time? Don't pedal when the computer tells you to, and your computer shuts down.

Good luck keeping up the pedaling long enough to finish downloading the 8 GB game you bought. Or are you talking about a mass migration away from desktop PCs and 150-watt consoles in favor of machines that sip power like laptops and Wii consoles?

Re:How many watts? (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221087)

Well, it would just be supplementary. Presumably it could monitor how long a human should pedal for, and then stop for a while until it determined you needed more. You'd keep fit while just sitting around on teh internet, and you'd get these ripped guys with pale faces and acne who would be the next phenomenon 'discovered' by Wired for a beefcake photo shoot.

Re:Blu-Ray... (1)

alta (1263) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220479)

fine physiques?

No, sorry, wrong.

Games will be controlled by the mind, and gamers will be known by their gelatinous forms.

Re:Blu-Ray... (1)

Elrond, Duke of URL (2657) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219979)

Yeah... but it's all about money, and Microsoft and Sony want a piece of that pie.

There's no doubt that the "hardcore crowd" can make a company money. When Blizzard releases something, it's practically guaranteed to generate vast quantities of cash. But there are a lot more gamers out there than just the hardcore crowd.

I'm fairly confident that games for... let's call them "seasoned gamers"... won't be going away. Making these games makes people money, presumably enough of it otherwise they would have stopped long ago. But the focus on these gamers is gone and it's not coming back. The wider focus on more casual gamers is here to stay. They're not going away and neither are games for them.

What does this mean for seasoned gamers? There will be a lot more chaff to sort through to find the good games. The Wii is all the proof you need of this. It also means that there will probably be fewer games targeted at the seasoned crowd simply because there are more areas to cover. No longer is the workload focused entirely on the hardcore.

So, it's not the end times, not at all. There will be a lot more lousy games, to be sure, some so bad you can't help but think they give a particular platform a bad name. But, if all the consoles have this, the shame will be spread around generously. And there will still be games that us veteran gamers will want to play. Good games, though they'll be harder to find.

Re:Blu-Ray... (4, Interesting)

EdZ (755139) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220017)

The major failing of current motion control systems (wiimote, Natal, whatever the PS3 system is called) is that there's no feedback. You're waving about, and simply hope that the game gets it right. By removing the layer of abstraction the controller provides, you're making things LESS immersive by starkly revealing that the game cannot respond to you in ways other than the visual or the audio.
Until cheap, reliable haptic control systems emerge (not a for about half a decade if things like the Falcon, and the cost of more flexiable systems, is anything to go by), motion control will be limited in usefulness to a few casual games that don't require fast and accurate responses.

Re:Blu-Ray... (2, Insightful)

grumbel (592662) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220577)

That claim comes up every now and then, but at this point in time its really kind of baseless. The major failure of the Wiimote is simply that it just doesn't work the people expected it. It doesn't give you 1:1 mapping and thus your movement on the screen ends up having little or even nothing to do with your actual motion. Its not even a matter of precision, its simply not enough sensory data to do any kind of real 3d tracking. That's the sole reason why the experience ends up a little flat, as you end up performing the same game moves as always in games, just triggered by a different mechanism.

The PS3 and Xbox360 solutions are very different in that they give you real 1:1 mapping. There is no longer a need for waggle-replacing-a-button style gameplay. Those things can give you completly new gameplay possibilities, as they allow you to directly manipulate the gaming world and get rid of a lot of limitions current games have. Weird example: Try to shoot yourself in the head in any shooter, doesn't work, because you can't target that spot with current day game controllers. Its one of the many blind spots todays games have where you simply can't do things that your character should be able to do with ease. With 1:1 on the other side those things become trivial.

Now of course having haptic in addition would be great, but it really isn't needed for a lot of things. You don't need haptic to aim a gun or shoot a crossbow. You don't need it to throw a grenade either. And even for things like sword fighting being able to precisely decide how a sword stab would work would be big.

I think the hardest part of motion sensing is really the game design at this point. Games will need to change a lot if motion sensing gets a central part of gaming and a lot of todays mechanics will need to be replaced with other different ones. Gaming pretty much needs to be reinvented the way it did from 2D to 3D.

An as a side note: Microsofts solution, as cool as it looks, seems a little useless without an addition controller, you can do casual stuff with it, but pulling a trigger on a gun kind of needs a button and I don't think it can track hand movement either, so being limited to your arms and legs is kind of a big issue. Sonys solution on the other side looks spot on, it looks basically like a Wiimote done right and I can see huge potential for that in normal non-casual games.

Re:Blu-Ray... (1)

eightball (88525) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221855)

You do realize the Wii MotionPlus is scheduled to be released in 3 days (in NA), don't you? The others have just been announced.

Re:Blu-Ray... (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 4 years ago | (#28222277)

The PS3, Xbox360, and Wii Motion+ solutions are very different in that they give you real 1:1 mapping.

Fixed that for you.

Granted, the camera approach of the 360 and PS3 have advantages and disadvantages over the WM+. But let's not kid ourselves. This is a three way race to full motion control capabilities. Thanks to the existing Wii Remote platform, Nintendo is leveraging their sizable lead to get their own 1:1 solution in consumers hands before the competition.

Re:Blu-Ray... (1)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 4 years ago | (#28222269)

What feedback solutions are you looking for?

I imagine a controller for PS3 with rumble enabled would actually provide "OK" feedback response.

Re:Blu-Ray... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28220629)

The life blood of gaming, less casual, more hardcore gamers, are the ones who play games like Oblivion, Unreal Tournament, Starcraft, Diablo, etc.

You call that hardcore? Those sound pretty mainstream to me. Think again: Actraiser, Shinobi, Alien Soldier, Ikaruga, Mark of the Wolves, Metal Slug, Zillion, Killer7, Ico, Snatcher... now those are hardcore!

The next-gen console to rule all consoles... (0, Redundant)

creimer (824291) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219815)

Isn't the XBox 720 on the drawing board at Microsoft?

Re:The next-gen console to rule all consoles... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28221317)

One Red Ring to rule them all,
One Red Ring to find them,
One E74 to bring them all,
And in the Blue Screen bind them.

Overly Optimistic? (1, Redundant)

neogramps (1432089) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219819)

"he expects the Xbox 360 to last until around 2015" - I don't any 360 will last that long - they'll RROD themselves way before then!

Xbox 360 redesign? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220491)

I don't any 360 will last that long - they'll RROD themselves way before then!

I imagine that the Xbox 360 won't last that long, but a hypothetical Xbox 360 Slimline with the same capability as Xbox 360 might last the rest of the time.

Longer console lifecycle will kill them (2, Interesting)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219843)

If you consider the fact that most games are constantly looking for the latest and greatest, whether it be hardware or software or (god help us) controllers, there will be only negative results from the lengthening of the console lifecycle. By extending the life of these boxes, console manufacturers are going to face the waning interest of consumers.

In some respects, the decision to keep current consoles longer makes some sense. There has not been any serious change in gameplay since the earliest consoles from Nintendo came out (this is not perfectly true, but I'll come back to that later). In order to keep interest alive, more powerful consoles were needed to bring the graphics capabilities into sync with the gameplay. Now, with the latest batch of consoles, we have seen that level reached. There will still be a few more tweaks that could be applied: anti-aliasing is one technological hurdle that hasn't been tackled satisfactorily.

In effect, the development of consoles has been dictated by the needs of the games. Unfortunately, these games have needed better graphics more than anything else. So what we have now is the situation where graphics are really good, but gameplay has not improved.

Now to come back to the issue of gameplay. There have been only a few true quantum leaps in gameplay. 3D, independent cooperative gaming (as opposed to simple team-play which has been around since R-type), and the latest is motion control as introduced in the Wii. Motion control has been around a long time, but until Wii no one has been able to make it a success. Nintendo used to have a motion activated controller, but it never took off. Para Para Paradise was interesting, but very limited in scope and popularity. And though there were fighting games which attempted to use motion sensors for input, these were also widely criticized. It was the Wii which was able to break through the closed-mindedness and create games that were fun and realistic to the gaming world.

But what is next? What is the next quantum leap in gaming? Without it, there can't be any new consoles that do anything more than make graphics better. But if console manufacturers think that gamers are going to sit idly by twiddling their thumbs on old consoles, they are going to be in deep trouble. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It's better for them to release new consoles, even if it means nothing more than better graphics. The alternative is to simply lose the interest of the gaming public.

Re:Longer console lifecycle will kill them (4, Interesting)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220207)

I'm not convinced that the "waning interest of consumers" actually exists outside of a niche. Console manufacturers make the most money during the tail-end of the cycle, when the console is affordable by the massmarket and is being produced at a profit or at least a significantly smaller loss. The manufacturers actually don't make a whole lot of money during the period in which it's being sold to "gamers [...] constantly looking for the latest and greatest". Those customers are a necessary part of getting the word out, but the people that Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo are really keen to please are the people who grab the system and a half-dozen three-year-old games for $300 at Walmart.

Re:Longer console lifecycle will kill them (1)

arkhan_jg (618674) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221149)

This is certainly true. The PS2 still gets at least half the sales of the PS3 every month, and got 50% more in April due to a US price cut of the PS2 that month.

Re:Longer console lifecycle will kill them (1)

Gravatron (716477) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221999)

I'd save the rise of realistic physics also allowed for new gameplay opportunities. Games like Half-life 2 and LittleBigPlanet showed the power of true physics, by making the gameworld truly interactive, and for allowing the creations of worlds that behave as the user would really expect them to. This opens up all kinds of gameplay possibilities.

Yes, Please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28219845)

Oh if only everyone in the console business were as stupid as to let the platform die a long slow horrible death for lack of hardware updates. PC gaming would reign unchallenged and everything would be good in the world.

I fear that is not the case, though. Consumers must be fleeced on a regular basis in exchange for "new" hardware, lest their wallets grow fat and constrict blood flow to their arses, prompting them to stand up and effectively removing them from the couch-dwelling demographic which is console gaming's core audience.

Nintendo Lessons (0, Redundant)

Tom (822) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219853)

Just their way of saying "it took us a while, but we think we realized that higher polycounts and more visual effects alone don't make good games and don' sell consoles".

Wii will release out of cycle with the other two. (1)

miffo.swe (547642) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219857)

While Sony and Microsoft has largely lost money so far on their consoles Nintendo has made bucketloads, ney truckloads of money on the Wii. Nintendo can now upgrade their console up to par with Sony and Microsoft for a much smaller cost than Microsoft and Sony can upgrade theirs.

The big question i have is if Nintendo will focus on making the controls for Wii better and more accurate or if they have other gimmicks up their sleeve.

XBox 360 looks promising (1)

moon3 (1530265) | more than 4 years ago | (#28219865)

The three general purpose cores (3.2GHz each) on X360 is what gives Microsoft the edge here. You can have Natal on core 2, your game on core 1 and system on core 3, everything runs smooth and relaxed. That means the extension like Natal can really be complex and well done. On PS3 you have only 1 general purpose core, that gives you some perspective of limited options.. This architectural advantage gives Microsoft headroom for future improvement.

Re:XBox 360 looks promising (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220503)

Natal runs a lot of processing on 'extra' hardware, possibly leaving most of all 3 cores. Sony can do the same if required.

Does the PS Eye need a general purpose core? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220507)

On PS3 you have only 1 general purpose core

The hypervisor in PS3 Other OS runs on a SPE core, not the general purpose core. I'd imagine that the new motion control system could likewise have an SPE dedicated to it.

Re:Does the PS Eye need a general purpose core? (1)

moon3 (1530265) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221101)

The hypervisor in PS3 Other OS runs on a SPE core

How could SPE run an OS??

I suppose you meant that SPE can be assigned under hypervisor control to do some computational heavy task. The hypervisor actually resides on the general purpose core, but has an SPE available to it exclusively to perform SPE suited task like encryption. Thats all.

SPEs could do very narrow tasks only.

Re:Does the PS Eye need a general purpose core? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221577)

The hypervisor actually resides on the general purpose core, but has an SPE available to it exclusively to perform SPE suited task like encryption.

Likewise, the new motion control peripheral would have exclusive use of an SPE to do its heavy lifting.

Why it won't work. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28219869)

Microsoft's Tech (impressive on reel, but lacking in meat-space) and Sony's Tech (impressive for tracking 1:1, but not for pointing) won't ever be able to reach the market penetration that the Wii has right now.

If you are a game company with a cool and fun game idea, and you want to use motion tech, you're going to pick the Wii, and motion plus if you need the extra precicion. The technology and packaged piece of hardware actually exists, is a dirt-cheap add-on to the system you already have, and will be hitting shelves in a month. The penetration won't be there with ~$80 for Natal, or for a PS3 camera + two tracking sticks (with tech inside equal to two Motion-plus Wiimotes).

It doesn't make any financial sense, and the odds of a software company making a compelling, core experience with these products in the first place is plain silly.

When a company is designing a game, one of the first decisions they make is definitely not "how can we limit the reach of our product to as few customers as possible?".

Re:Why it won't work. (1)

HikingStick (878216) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221681)

Not to mention that camera-based controls for the X-box will be subject to environmental interference. No more joking around and jostling your buddy during gameplay. Hope that your younger siblings, dog, or friends don't pass through the camera-controller's area of control. It's a whiz-bang technology, but I think MS has whizzed on their own foot and will bang themselves in the forehead later.

Could've happened last generation (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220167)

Back in 2004 Nintendo were famously going to extend the GC life cycle with new peripherals for the forseeable future [ign.com], including a mysterious EyeToy rival [gamesindustry.biz]. Said peripheral, presumably, turned into the Wii controller. So obviously this is an idea that's been considered in the past. I guess the GC seemed too aged, at the time, for them to actually go through with that.

Wii is an overclocked GameCube (0, Flamebait)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220541)

Back in 2004 Nintendo were famously going to extend the GC life cycle with new peripherals for the forseeable future

And they did. One of the additions to the GameCube family was a revision with the same general architecture and four new features: more RAM, an overclocked CPU, a USB port, and an internal flash chip. This revised GameCube is called Wii. Even the Bluetooth radio that talks to the Wii Remotes sits on an internal USB port. The Nintendo DSi bears much the same relationship to the DS: more RAM, a faster CPU, an SD card slot, and an internal flash chip.

Re:Wii is an overclocked GameCube (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220975)

It's not the same relationship at all. The Wii hardware is largely derived from the GameCube's, but it's not simply "overclocked" or "more RAM" as in the case of the DSi. It's more like the relation between PC hardware a few years apart - same architecture, new features and higher performance components.

This cycle will be long, but not for that reason (1)

Bitmanhome (254112) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220197)

The reason there's no new hardware from the console maker is that there is no new hardware from the chip makers. We hit the GHz ceiling a couple years ago, and as a result today's chips aren't better by enough to make it worthwhile.

I suspect MS and Sony want to see where the multi-core thing is going (CPUs support a dozen complex threads, while GPUs support a few hundred simple threads.) Will one line of chips take over the other? Will we find masses of simple cores are better than a few complex cores? Or will we find it's worth keeping a few complex cores on every chip?

Once we (or at least our researchers) can see where this is going, then the next-gen hardware development will start up again.

Re:This cycle will be long, but not for that reaso (1)

Spatial (1235392) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220481)

The reason there's no new hardware from the console maker is that there is no new hardware from the chip makers. We hit the GHz ceiling a couple years ago, and as a result today's chips aren't better by enough to make it worthwhile.

This is a myth. The clock speed of a processor isn't directly indicative of its performance, which has never stopped increasing.

Each core in a Core i7, at 2.66Ghz, is faster than a whole 3.8Ghz Pentium 4 and uses a quarter of the power. There's no tradeoff between core count and speed, modern CPUs have both.

Re:This cycle will be long, but not for that reaso (1)

Bitmanhome (254112) | more than 4 years ago | (#28222153)

Yes, but it took us 3 years just to reach "faster". Back in the 90s, you could expect to get double the usable performance in less than two years. We should have had chips running running 2-4 times faster than they are now, but instead Intel has spent half the decade releasing 3 GHz chips, each one merely "faster" than the previous (except for the ones that are slower.) And it's all due to the GHz ceiling.

Well, *I* call it the GHz ceiling. I suppose a more technical name might be "leakage-induced thermal limit."

And the whole reason we have multi-core processors is due to the GHz limit. I'd rather have one 6 GHz core than two at 3 GHz. But we can't get one to run at 6 GHz no matter how small we make it, so the only way to boost performance is it with multiple cores.

A non article if ever I saw one. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28220291)

Let's see:

we don't think any party is seriously interested in throwing away these investments and starting over from scratch.

No, they're not going to start over from scratch. The cost of starting a new hardware platform is sufficiently high that they'll build upon their existing platforms in an evolutionary way, given how much red ink the MS and Sony platforms have bled. More powerful GPUs, more powerful CPUs (probably a higher core count, maybe a clock speed bump, possibly the return of out of order execution for the PS3 and Xbox's successor, more RAM, and maybe higher capacity media (almost certainly for the Xbox, possibly not for the PS3.)

For all of these reasons, we think this cycle will last longer than those in the past, and don't see new hardware coming until 2011 at the earliest, and 2012 to 2013 more likely

Uh ... guys ... look at the hardware release cycle in the past. Five to six years. When did these consoles come out? 2005, 2006? Wouldn't that make it 2011? Sheesh.

My feeling is that the first to the block with a new hardware platform will be Nintendo. The Wii was a very careful balancing act: more power than the Gamecube, but not so much as to push the initial costs into the stratosphere. They'll almost certainly do the same for the Wii's successor. Backwards compatibility with the Wii is pretty much certain. Gamecube compatibility? Maybe, but they may drop it to save a few bucks. Multi core? Perhaps, but it'll be multi core in the same way that desktop CPUs are multi core: full blown out of order execution, rather than sticking to strict in-order execution to cut down on the transistor count. More powerful GPU (possibly full HD compatibility this time, certainly 720p at a minimum.) More RAM. The usual list. What's going to be interesting with the Wii's successor will be what they end up doing with interfacing - Nintendo have always pushed the boundaries in their controllers, whilst Microsoft and Sony follow along behind.

After a year or two, maybe three, of Nintendo's new platform being on the market, we'll see Microsoft and Sony upgrade their systems. Or maybe they'll just throw new controllers at them and keep the existing hardware platform the same, which would mean that their "upgrades" would come much sooner than otherwise would be the case.

In any case, the winners will be the customers (in that more grunt comes at a lower price), and the losers will be the gaming studios as they try to cope with the demands inherent in developing for more powerful systems.

I Like This (1)

ChinggisK (1133009) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220373)

Maybe this time they will have time to come down in price enough for me to actually be able to afford to buy one of each before the next generation comes around.

such an industry so many problems (2, Insightful)

CheshireFerk-o (412142) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220385)

you dont seem to understand that about 70% of households do not have a hdtv. that entire arguement is moot. my wii is hooked up thru an rf modulator still. not everyone has the kind of cash for the newest hardware(consoles) and displays to keep up with their shinyness. what it comes down to is gameplay and fun. sure the ps3 is real slick hardware, but i cant afford one, and i dont really see more than a handful of games i'd really be interested in. the 360... well its a m$ product and i wouldnt play it if you gave me one, the controller is awkward and they charge you to play online. sure they have a bunch of great titles but 70% of those have pc versions, which is always the best platform. if someone would/could settle on a good hardware system for the consoles then there would be a no-brainer must have. but using the special chips they produce for these things like they are now is crazy costly. they(360) might have had it right this time around, if they didnt take cost cutting measures and put out crap hardware. the ideal console would be 100% backwards compatible because it is just updated hardware to the previous generation, like gc/wii. instead of spending millions making some weird propriety code/chip every 7-8years upgrading a building ontop of what you have would keep costs down and the players happy. but what do i know ive only been gaming for 24 of my 26years on earth.

why m$ and sony think their rabid consumers would go for motion control, i havent a clue. wouldnt those people already own a wii?

Its upgradable now (1)

Quantus347 (1220456) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220731)

Now that the consoles are getting upgradeable, with downloadable content, upgradeable hard drives, etc. you can upgrade quite a bit of the console, to keep up with the ever increasing game needs. And where in the recent cycles consoles became outdated largely as new game storage media became available, and games required more and more data, now the consoles have the ability to store the game, in part or in whole, on its own hard drive.

The only thing I see that might replace the current consoles soon would be a modular system that could fully upgrade memory, video hardware, control devices, etc.

Re:Its upgradable now (1)

valinor89 (1564455) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221621)

Well, isn't that a PC? That would not work becouse it would introduce a lot more configurations, increase failures, price, and errors.

Cause and effect, people... (1)

hal2814 (725639) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220827)

Motion controls are NOT lengthening the current console life cycle. That wasn't implied in the article and the notion itself is absurd. Analyst believe that because the console makers are devoting significant time and effort to producing new hardware for consoles that will be 3-4 years old by the time that hardware is released, it is a sign the console makers are planning on stretching out the usual console life cycle. Motion detection is not the cause. Motion detection hardware is being shown as evidence of a hypothesis that at least Sony has publicly confirmed long ago: video game consoles will be released at a slower pace than previously.

640K (1)

Alsee (515537) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220977)

With the recent demonstrations of new 640K RAM computers, analysts now expect the current computer generation to last longer than normal. Signal Hill's Todd Greenwald thinks this cycle may not need to end at all: "Microsoft and Sony have invested so much in their current hardware line, as have third party publishers, that we don't think any party is seriously interested in throwing away these investments and starting over from scratch. For all of these reasons, we think this cycle will last longer than those in the past, and don't see new hardware coming until 2011 at the earliest, and 2012 to 2013 more likely if at all, there may not be a need for another computer cycle."

-

Sensible next consoles. (1)

Brit_in_the_USA (936704) | more than 4 years ago | (#28220995)

As I see it the sensible next gen console step for MS and Sony is to just expand on their current technology rather than starting again from scratch and waiting 1-2 years for Developers to catch up.

If Sony's PS4 was a PS3 with 2 cell chips and latest Nvidia Graphics (say 260 derived) and the Xbox (3?) upgraded to a 6-8 core power PC chip from the current 3 core device with latest generation ATI graphics (derived form their latest DirectX11 chip) then maintaining backwards comaptibility should be relatively straight forward compared to the present v last generation (where both Sony and MS changed graphics chip technology and CPU technology). As such all the SDK and debug tools could be carried over in an updated form. Developers could hit the ground running....

The next gen (2, Funny)

8tim8 (623968) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221009)

>... we don't think any party is seriously interested in throwing away these investments and starting over from scratch.

Man, wouldn't it be funny if Nintendo did a hardware refresh in a year or so and called it a next generation machine? They could make it backwards compatible to the Wii, have simultaneous releases for both systems, but distract Sony and MS to no end. But would it be the Wii2, or the WiiII (or Wiii)?

Economy (1)

dontPanik (1296779) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221599)

I think another important thing to think about is that the economic problems we're having right now are going to stop people from buying a new console, if any company was going to put one out.
Really, It would just be suicide to try to make a PS4 right now.

OnLive (1)

aweiland (237773) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221729)

Do people really expect this to take off any time soon? Do you realize the infrastructure that's going to be needed to be deployed regionally to make this work? In it's current state is nearly maxes out a basic cable connection. I just don't foresee it becoming standard any time soon.

PS3 held back by Xbox360, Wii under-used (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#28221787)

From what we keep reading, we haven't even seen what the PS3 is really capable of. We keep hearing about games being made for Xbox360 then ported to PS3, with the Xbox360 being the baseline, etc.

Also, with the new Metroid game, we finally see what the Wii is capable of and it's far from cartoony graphics.

In any case, what matters is games and how far can developers push the hardware. I have a Wii for Zelda and Metroid games, and I'll probably be getting a PS3 to play FF XIV Online. I sure hope I can transfer my character from FF XI Online...

Re:PS3 held back by Xbox360, Wii under-used (1)

aweiland (237773) | more than 4 years ago | (#28222221)

We keep hearing it, but there's no real proof.

Unless you just take Sony's word for it. But their word is about as reliable as Dick Cheney's

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...