Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

ARM-Powered Linux Laptops Unveiled At Computex

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the you-and-what-arm dept.

Portables 272

Charbax writes "At Computex in Taipei on June 2-6th, several companies unveiled ARM-powered laptops that are cheaper ($99 to $199), last much longer on a regular 3-cell battery (8-15 hours) and can still add cool new features such as a built-in HDMI 720p or 1080p output, 3D acceleration, connected standby and more. The ARM Linux laptops shown as working prototypes at Computex will run Ubuntu 9.10 (optimized for ARM), Google Android, Xandros OS for ARM, or some Red Flag Linux type of OS. In this video, the Director of Mobile Computing at ARM, is giving us all the latest details on the status for the support of full Flash (with all actionscripts), the optimizations of the web browser (accelerating rendering/scrolling using the GPU/DSP), the stuff that Google is working on to adapt Android 2.0 Donut release for laptop screens and interfaces and more. At Computex I also filmed an interview with the Nvidia team working on Tegra laptops, the Qualcomm people working on Snapdragon devices and the Freescale people doing their awesomely thin ARM laptops in cooperation with manufacturers such as Pegatron as well."

cancel ×

272 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Will they run Linux? (3, Insightful)

jginspace (678908) | more than 5 years ago | (#28240911)

Well, they're not going to run Windows any time soon. Good opportunity here. I hope the application availability is going to be good - as a Nokia Tablet user I've been running a variant of Linux on a ARM processor for some time now and I can't wait to get my hands on a ARM netbook.

Re:Will they run Linux? (3, Interesting)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241013)

I'd consider buying one for the extended battery life as long as it's not too much slower. I generally only use a netbook for browsing, and occasionally remoting into home machines, but occasionally will run Eclipse or NetBeans. As it is, the big drawback is not the processor, but the vertical screen resolution that stops me from doing it more often.

That said, I work in software development, and I'm the only one I know that has a netbook. I've heard that in Europe, purchase rates are 8-10 times higher than here in North America. Why is that?

Re:Will they run Linux? (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241071)

Bad data. They are super popular with the HS/College crowd.

Re:Will they run Linux? (5, Funny)

CODiNE (27417) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241215)

I'm the only one I know that has a netbook. I've heard that in Europe, purchase rates are 8-10 times higher than here in North America. Why is that?

Full-sized laptops don't fit in Smartcars. Especially with the loaf of French bread poking out of the trunk.

Re:Will they run Linux? (2, Informative)

dunkelfalke (91624) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241533)

I know you were joking, but a Smart is surprisingly spacious.

Re:Will they run Linux? (2, Funny)

Krneki (1192201) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241897)

The average US citizen weights 450kg, this is why they drive around in Hammers. Besides they have absolutely no concept of beauty and design.

*runs away before the flame war*

Re:Will they run Linux? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241447)

I think the main reason is that here in Europe the mobile phone providers have been actively pushing mobile broadband and offer plan and netbook combo deals. Furthermore, it is a lot easier to get a broadband SIM card here in Europe and by far cheaper. Lastly, I would say these seem quite popular with the public-transport commuter crowd.

7" size missing (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241027)

As another Nokia Internet Tablet user, I look forward to a slightly larger size, but retaining 2+ days of battery use. 10" screens are too large.

Don't get me wrong, my N800 is good for highly portable needs (geocaching, mobile email, skype, lite blogging), all without a mandatory cell data plan, but there are times when a larger screen would be useful without adding weight. A Eee is too heavy and too large. A 7" screen with a built-in keyboard that I can touch type on and GPS included would be really nice. Some external connections - monitor, keyboard, USB, 100base-tx would be really nice too. Those missing things hurt N800/N810 adoption, IMHO.

No need to support video editing or any other high powered processing. Just lite word processing, spreadsheets, web surfing, email, plus all the things the N800 does already.

Re:Will they run Linux? (2, Informative)

Erikderzweite (1146485) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241133)

They will be able to run Windows CE (which is a good thing for Linux though :) ).

Re:Will they run Linux? (1)

rzekson (990139) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241575)

...as well as the newest versions of Windows Mobile, which means you can have, among many others, things like Web and email access, basic word processing, spreadsheets, presentation kits, remote desktop client, SSH client, and believe it or not, even a (reduced, obviously) version of SQL server. Realistically, Windows Mobile gives you 99.9% of what you need for daily usage on the go, and anything that a slow device like this can get you. Even if someone ported Windows XP/Vista to ARM, you wouldn't really get anything more than that... most other apps would be just too slow to run. So I don't believe Microsoft wil lever do that. And I think the same will be the case for Linux on ARM. It won't really be the same system you run on the desktop (not in any practical sense), even if it's loosely based on (much of) the same source... you could just as well call it Linux Mobile. I personally think it's a good thing. I like the fact that my Windows Mobile devices boots in under a second. If my high-end, 64-bit, memory-loaded, 7200rpm laptop comes back from hibernation within almost a minute, I wonder how long it would take for an ARM device to unhibernate or boot into Windows 7.

Re:Will they run Linux? RTFA dude, they do! (0, Offtopic)

Bearhouse (1034238) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241273)

Well, if it's a Linux varient there's plenty of native apps. Get Wine on there ASAP and you're away for a good number of Win apps too...however for the intended target market I suspect that a well-rolled *x distro with some decent bundled apps would be enough for most users. 'Power' ones could figure out the Wine stuff for themselves.

Re:Will they run Linux? RTFA dude, they do! (5, Informative)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241341)

Get Wine on there ASAP and you're away for a good number of Win apps too...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that Wine doesn't translate across architectures. Any windows apps you hope to run on Wine would need to be compiled for Wine from source. So all ARM/Wine apps will either:

  • Be compiled for a Windows ARM port. But switching to ARM would be a good opportunity for Microsoft to make a clean break of backwards compatibility, perhaps with an entirely new OS line. Perhaps one called 'Chairs'?
  • Be an open source app compiled in ARM. Seeing as most open source apps are already ported to Linux, using Wine on ARM would have novelty value only.

Re:Will they run Linux? RTFA dude, they do! (2, Informative)

wisty (1335733) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241437)

You could run it in an X86 emulator, but the number of tuples you would burn sort of defeats the purpose of using ARM.

Re:Will they run Linux? RTFA dude, they do! (1)

Bearhouse (1034238) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241563)

You are right, of course. It's a completely different architecture. Not thinking today...

Re:Will they run Linux? RTFA dude, they do! (1)

SamsLembas (1278956) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241355)

Wine is not an emulator. Unless you run it in one or compile the Windows binaries for ARM, there is no way Wine will work on an ARM chip.

Re:Will they run Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241427)

You know what I'm looking for? I want an ultra-cheap netbook that doesn't run fast. I want one that lasts for a HUGE amount of time on one battery charge (like 24 hours) and lets me run linux with only a terminal.

The screen resolution can suck, it doesn't need to have a good video card (doesn't even need to support a GUI!), the processor can be slow, it can run on a small flash based hard drive, it doesn't need much RAM, etc. It just needs to be small/portable, cheap, have excellent wireless and a truly epic battery life.

I don't know about anybody else, but I would use that netbook all the time. I think it would be so awesome! New technology obviously means we can get faster hardware, but what if I just want it to be more efficient?

They could (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241711)

Windows has been built in such way that it is extremely easy to port to new architectures. For instance the fabled Alpha port (of NT) was basically done in 2 days, thanks to the fact that they have always had an abstraction layer for the hardware. If Microsoft got serious threat from these ARM devices, do not count that they couldn't answer to that.

Probably however the threat is nonexistent. Wake me up when these devices have some actual market share.

Re:They could (1)

Random Person 1372 (1529155) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241883)

But even if Windows was ported to ARM, one of the main selling points does no longer apply: There will not be the giant collection of software for Windows ARM that is available for Windows x86. Linux has an advantage here: when you have access to the source, you (or your favorite distributor) can just compile the same software for ARM. Nobody can do this on Windows.

Sure, there would be software for Windows ARM, but initially there would be less software available compared to a Linux distribution.

Re:Will they run Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241779)

Well, you're in good company here, as pretty much the entire Linux powered netbook world population (What is it now? 10%?... 5%?... 2%?) congregate here on Slashdot to pat each other on the back.

The other few million users happily run Windows, an OS which I'm sure will eventually find its way onto ARM processors once MS determine the viability.

Windows Zealot here (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28240913)

Notepad beats vim
visual basic beats perl

first post

Targeting the Chinese/Indian market? (4, Interesting)

MathFox (686808) | more than 5 years ago | (#28240945)

I would buy such a 9" smartbook and use it as ultraportable second laptop (as it can do OOo impress presentations it would be very useful too.) I can imagine other computer users in Europe and the US to buy such a machine as second (third) system. However, if the suppliers can keep prices under the $200, it will be an affordable system for "the masses" in China, India and South America that were unable to afford their own PC before. Somehow, prices for netbooks crept up with the addition of harddisks and Windows.

Price? (5, Informative)

siloko (1133863) | more than 5 years ago | (#28240975)

Nowhere in the article does it mention $99. The quote is "Some of the ARM-based systems will sell for as little as $199." Now $199 is pretty cheap but that is a starting price and will unlikely be the mean let alone allowing for $99 units. The summary is misleading.

Re:Link whoring (2, Insightful)

jginspace (678908) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241001)

Submitter was trying to squeeze in yet another techvideoblog.com link.

Re:Price? (1)

MathFox (686808) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241141)

From Wikipedia:

[China's] middle class population (defined as those with annual income of at least US$5,000) has now reached 80-150 million.

That is a market of considerable size for a $200 laptop. And many people that don't care about "using their old programs or data" because they never owned a computer before. For them Linux is perfect (they won't have to pirate MS Office.)

Re:Price? (3, Informative)

adam1101 (805240) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241209)

And many people that don't care about "using their old programs or data" because they never owned a computer before.

They will care about being able to use existing Chinese apps and games, which are pretty much all Windows-only. I don't know if you've actually been in China, but Windows is even more entrenched there than it is in the West.

For them Linux is perfect (they won't have to pirate MS Office.)

For them Windows is much better, because all the Chinese software that everybody around them is already using will work, and they don't give a hoot about piracy. In fact, lots of them don't even have a concept of "software piracy". Software is just something you copy from someone else, or buy from the street vendor for a dollar.

Re:Price? (2, Insightful)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241459)

For them Windows is much better, because all the Chinese software that everybody around them is already using will work, and they don't give a hoot about piracy. In fact, lots of them don't even have a concept of "software piracy". Software is just something you copy from someone else, or buy from the street vendor for a dollar.

But the box to run it on is 3 months pay... The "Free" WinXP gets very expensive that way. This is one place MS can't just get market share with Piracy. But they will try with WinCE. They can not just abandon the market... And WinCE can't run WINE and Windows apps either...

Who's gonna sell these? (4, Interesting)

eddy (18759) | more than 5 years ago | (#28240959)

I don't understand who are going to sell these when Microsoft call them up and say "Oh, I see you're selling computers with [non-windows OS], that's interesting... Yeaaahh so... you know those rebates you get on Windows? Yeah, you can forget about those. Have a nice day"

Do they think they're safe because they're on ARM?

Re:Who's gonna sell these? (4, Insightful)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241035)

Yeah, because Microsoft shareholders are just desperate for yet another massive antitrust case.

Re:Who's gonna sell these? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241095)

Oh, to be young and naive again...

Windows Mobile for subnotebooks (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241105)

Do they think they're safe because they're on ARM?

They are at least until Microsoft tries to revive Windows Mobile for subnotebooks [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Windows Mobile for subnotebooks (1)

manuvajpai (1571417) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241227)

They are at least until Microsoft tries to revive Windows Mobile for subnotebooks [wikipedia.org] .

Either you are microsoft fanboy or a freakishly, horrendously, amazingly paranoid linux one. Don't worry mate. ARM had their hidden plans.
begin Super_duper_corporate_secret
  Don't you know who initiated the "Vista is ME2" propaganda? ;-)
end Super_duper_corporate_secret

P.S. - Hello Slashdot! Finally you guys got me converted (secretly wishing for +5 funny. erm... insightful maybe? :D )

Re:Windows Mobile for subnotebooks (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241467)

A windows mobile phone with a slider is just a sub-subnotebook running wince. And I must ashamedly admit that I'm using one and find it "not too bad". It crashes less than my RAZR V3i did, that's for damnsure.

Re:Who's gonna sell these? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241151)

Since Microsoft does not even have an operating system that runs on these machines, if Microsoft were to do as you said, it would be the very definition of an Anti-Trust lawsuit, in the case of using one's business in one sector to influence another. As much as they can get away with that in the States, it'll never fly in the EU. And as the market has shown us, Linux adoption is much higher there anyways, so it would be a massive victory for any company in the EU selling these machines.

So, who's going to sell them? Chinese/Taiwanese/Japanese OEM companies. Who's going to buy them? EU markets. Who's going to advertise them heavily? Absolutely nobody (since that's mainly where Microsoft and Intel come in and stomps companies, which should be illegal but somehow flies).

Re:Who's gonna sell these? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241221)

Doesn't Windows Mobile run on ARM?

According to wikipedia [wikipedia.org] Windows Mobile 7 is coming next year.

Re:Who's gonna sell these? (1)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241505)

Also, most of the big players in the Arm market have no Windows product. "If you don't quit that we won't sell you Windows cheaply anymo... Oh..." It is hard to influence someone who is not your customer. It is like Paris Hilton, denying you sex. Not really gonna impact your life, now is it?

Re:Who's gonna sell these? (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241593)

> It is like Paris Hilton, denying you sex. Not really gonna impact your life, now is it?

Depends on how she denied me...

Who's gonna sell these? Everyone. (3, Insightful)

jmorris42 (1458) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241425)

> I don't understand who are going to sell these when Microsoft call them up and say...

Notice who is doing this. Mobile phone carriers, mobile chipset makers, etc. are the driving force behind this effort. They came together and did Symbian because they understood letting Windows in would end up with them in the PC situation where Microsoft is the one making the bulk of the profit. So if Microsoft had the ability to hurt them I'd think they would have crushed them like bugs already.

Remember also that Chinese contract manufacturers live in a totally different world where Microsoft has no influence. Get consumer electronics instead of PC makers to do the end marketing and again, Microsoft can't hurt them. That just leaves the retailers. Yes Microsoft owns a while isle in Best Buy so they might keep these guys out of there for an Xmas or two. And frankly Best Buy will fear them on their own for their ability to turn a $500 laptop purchase into a $200 netbook sale. Until the wireless carriers put them in the part of Best Buy THEY own bubdles with a 3G contract. And what of Walmart, Walgreens, etc. These puppies are cheap and heading down. Sooner or later they show up as impulse purchase items at Big Lots in blister packs. How much leverage does Microsoft have with any of those markets?

ARM floodgates blown? (5, Interesting)

moon3 (1530265) | more than 5 years ago | (#28240963)

The most interesting part is that those devices have integrated CPU/GPU/Video Accel. on a single chip. Something that Intel, AMD and nVidia is pursuing for a long time, but these ARM based solutions from Qualcomm, Texas Instruments and others are delivering now and the performance / power consumption ratio is already impressive.

Re:ARM floodgates blown? (3, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241387)

HTC has been making phones with Qualcomm chips for a while, I just got myself a refurb HTC Fuze when I sold my soul to AT&T (I live in GSM land, and they own it all here now, literally.) It's also the Sprint-sold HTC Touch Pro. 528 Mhz Qualcomm chip, VGA display, respectable 3d acceleration, halfway decent touch. "A $500 value" free with a two year torture session. In real-world reviewed testing they manage five days of standby time and you get maybe six to eight hours of use... on a 1350mAh battery! (You can get power from any old USB connection with the included dongle, which also gives you headphone and headset connections.) That's a prior-generation version of this same idea, using am ARMv6 core (which runs ARMv4 binaries quite nicely, thankyouverymuch.)

I'm no Windows Mobile fanboy, the phone gets chunky here and there. There ARE some hacks you can make (I used "Advanced Config", which should work across all Raphael devices) to dramatically increase the responsiveness (caching mostly) and you can find a list on xda-developers raphael forums. Touch Flo 3D is no iPhone interface, and you get dropped to the Windows interface on a regular basis, but that's far less odious than it used to be and besides, it's possible to run Android on Touch Pro already. I would never have got this thing if I thought I'd be stuck with WinCE forever. Best acronym ever.

Great. More prototypes. (0)

adam1101 (805240) | more than 5 years ago | (#28240981)

These things have been hyped on trade shows for over a year now.
Call me when they actually have something a consumer can buy in a store.

Re:Great. More prototypes. (2, Informative)

JohnBailey (1092697) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241805)

These things have been hyped on trade shows for over a year now. Call me when they actually have something a consumer can buy in a store.

Does this count.. http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=261613 [maplin.co.uk]

$99 huh (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 5 years ago | (#28240983)

RTFA it says FROM $199, not $99.

now i'd love one of these products, i think ARM is sexy. but mass market appeal? very unlikely. if it can't run that cd i just bought from walmart, your sunk.

Re:$99 huh (0, Flamebait)

billcopc (196330) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241065)

At $199 they can shove these things where the sun don't shine, considering the current crop of PC-based nettops start at $249. As much as we hate to say it, a laptop that runs Windows is more valuable that one that does not. It's true in the mid-range laptop market, it's even truer in the nettop scene which taps into a tremendous small-budget market that was previously untouched, and thus is largely populated with untrained users.

Say what you will about community support, but I've had much better luck troubleshooting Windows problems over the phone, than trying to find answers in Ubuntu support forums where 9/10 questions go unanswered and every other answer is prefaced with "This worked for me, but I have no idea what it does". Deaf leading the blind, that's never a good thing.

Re:$99 huh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241091)

lame

Re:$99 huh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241217)

At $199 they can shove these things where the sun don't shine, considering the current crop of PC-based nettops start at $249.

They also start at, what, two to three hours of battery life?

Say what you will about community support

Completely irrelevant for a store bought pre-installed system with ordinary customer support, unless you're breaking your waranty by installing your own distro or replacing the wireless chip or something.

Now there's other problems with the current offerings, not the least of them being no one are actually selling something yet, but ARM on laptops is going to happen. Intel won't be able to make x86 chips as power efficient as the market needs them in time.

Re:$99 huh (4, Informative)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241339)

The Eee PC and similar netbooks don't have a CD/DVD drive, either, and yet they sold millions. I don't think people are quite as interested in "that cd you just bought from walmart".

Re:$99 huh (1)

Sique (173459) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241675)

But that's only why the bought the $39 portable USB drive ;)

Re:$99 huh (1)

Krneki (1192201) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241905)

CDs are so '90.

Come on, guys (5, Insightful)

fnj (64210) | more than 5 years ago | (#28240993)

I looked at the pictures in the article and was crestfallen. I don't want some half assed useless handheld toy.. I want an ARM powered real, usable laptop with an 8.9-11.1" display, readable outdoors in daylight , with a real keyboard, that will be everything that all netbooks to date have emphatically not been. Something with true 20+ hour battery life while doing useful work. It should have WiFi and mobile broadband. An ARM would be more than powerful enough for taking notes, surfing, reading and replying to email, etc. Ubuntu 9.04 would be just perfect. I would pay real money for this. I thought the HP2133 would be it, but mine is going unused. You can barely read the display in a dark room, let alone daylight or even a bright office. The Lenovo X301 is about the closest I have come, but it is a long way from where it needs to be, and brutally expensive.

Re:Come on, guys (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241097)

So you want something with a 20 hour battery life, a dual mode e-ink display, running full ubuntu and dirt cheap? Would you like a pony thrown in as well?

Re:Come on, guys (1)

ortholattice (175065) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241381)

So you want something with a 20 hour battery life, a dual mode e-ink display, running full ubuntu and dirt cheap? Would you like a pony thrown in as well?

Well, the OLPC XO comes pretty close for my purposes. While Ubuntu may be pushing it - I think some people have installed it - XFCE suits me for the kinds of things I do with it. The tremendous advantage of the OLPC is the e-ink mode of the screen, its 5-6 hour battery life, and its small size. I've taken it to the beach many times and have gotten a lot of work done relaxing under my umbrella while my tanned gf suns, swims, and flirts with skin cancer. I'll often pop it in my tote bag if I'm going to wait for a drs. appt. or something rather than lugging my big main laptop. Its awful keyboard, though, is its worst feature and the main reason I don't use it more often. So bad that at home, I just ssh to it and never touch it.

Re:Come on, guys (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241419)

Try to pay attention. I never said dirt cheap. In fact I plainly said I would pay real money for it.

Re:Come on, guys (5, Insightful)

billcopc (196330) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241119)

You want a good laptop, and that's the problem. The industry has always moved toward pretty, flashy or buzzy devices, at the expense of usability and performance.

That's why today's laptops still get only 1.5 to 2 hours on a charge. That's why 15" and 17" models are cheaper than travel-friendly sizes. That's why they can barely survive traveling in a padded bag. People would much rather pay for a shiny useless gadget, than an ugly functional one. The netbook is only the most recent cristallization of this attitude, users think of them as "cute toys". Some brands do offer a workable laptop, and they're all too happy to charge $3000+ for the "luxury" of a machine that cost maybe 10% more in parts and labor.

Jumping the gun . . . (2, Insightful)

siloko (1133863) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241193)

I agree with the sentiment but this a a trade show and the designs on offer are by "industrial designers from the Savannah College of Art and Design". I am not saying they won't come to market . . . well, to chuck in a gratuitous car reference - how many of those concept cars that we see at motor shows actually make it to mass production?

Here, we obey the laws of physics (2, Informative)

Kupfernigk (1190345) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241127)

readable outdoors in daylight

implies either a monochrome e-ink display or something with enough backlighting to overcome skylight - which is where your battery life is disappearing to. Even LED lit displays are not going to give you what you want. OLED may one day get there, but is two technical breakthroughs short.

Even at 100% conversion rates - which are not likely to be attainable - I doubt you would get 20+ hours from a 3 cell battery on a 10 inch screen. A very rough calculation shows that you would need about 2W just to light a daylight readable display at 100% conversion. A 3 cell battery is around 22WH. That means that it could run the display alone for only around 11 hours.

Re:Here, we obey the laws of physics (4, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241159)

implies either a monochrome e-ink display or something with enough backlighting to overcome skylight - which is where your battery life is disappearing to.

Or a transflective TFT. They're fairly common in small devices, relying on a backlight in low-light conditions but being reflective (front-lit) in bright sunlight. Because they don't use the backlight in direct sunlight, the battery lasts longer when they are front-lit.

Re:Here, we obey the laws of physics (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241453)

One more wank-session for my HTC Fuze; I have a GBA SP (reflective/frontlit) and a RAZR V3i (transflective) and honestly both of them look like dogshit in any conditions except inside, or with one's back to full sun. The Fuze's panel is viewable all the damned time. If only I could have a clamshell with about eight times the screen area and the same resolution per inch, and perhaps about sixteen times as much battery. Such a beast would still fit into one of my pockets... But they think this thing is worth five bills, what am I going to pay for something like that? I imagine the screen is a big part of the actual cost of the device, and I want a lot more of it.

Re:Here, we obey the laws of physics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241175)

What about transreflexive displays? These allow you to turn off the backlight when in direct sunlight. The more sunlight there is, the more power they save.

Re:Here, we obey the laws of physics (2, Interesting)

timeOday (582209) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241183)

readable outdoors in daylight implies either a monochrome e-ink display or something with enough backlighting to overcome skylight - which is where your battery life is disappearing to.

The key here is a reflective color display (not reflective in the sense of a mirror, but like a book, which uses the sunlight itself to illuminate the page). My Garmin GPS has what they call a "transflective" screen that is color, but visible in daylight in just the same was as a monochrome LCD, and for dark conditions it has a backlight also. I assume there must be some good reason they can't put this in a laptop - poor color rendition perhaps?

The other route, though it seems horribly-wasteful, is to overwhelm the ambient sunlight with a super-bright backlight as you said. I have a Lenovo T400 with an LED backlight which does this surprisingly well, though still not ideal for full-blast sunlight at, say, the beach. LEDs are more power-efficient than standard flourescents too, though as you said fighting sunlight is a losing proposition.

Re:Here, we obey the laws of physics (3, Interesting)

timeOday (582209) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241231)

PS I would seriously consider buying a portable add-on E-ink screen for my laptop. It would have to be thin enough to sit in front of the normal screen (not with the lid closed, of course), and plug into the laptop's VGA output. Sure it would be monochrome and have a sluggish response time. But for sitting outside doing word-processing or spreadsheets, and consulting wikipedia etc, that would be fine. The add-on route would avoid having to make a special-purpose laptop with only an E-ink screen, which I agree is not too attractive.

Re:Here, we obey the laws of physics (1)

ogdenk (712300) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241253)

I seem to remember my monochrome Apple Newton and early color iPaq screens being readable in daylight.

Re:Here, we obey the laws of physics (1)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241365)

So is the monochrome display on my watch.

Re:Here, we obey the laws of physics (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241429)

Transflective.

Re:Here, we obey the laws of physics (1)

Sique (173459) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241693)

Interestingly though white paper manages to be readable in full sunlight without any backlight ;)

Re:Come on, guys (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241235)

I think when the rubber hits the road, they will be 'standard' looking net books and not those weirdo 'concepts'.

But if as another post stated is true and the 99 dollar price tag is misleading, why spend 250+ on one of those when you can get an atom and be a bit more compatible?

Too bad if true, for $150 id get one in a heartbeat. Any more then that then a regular low end laptop makes more sense to me.

Re:Come on, guys (1)

Bearhouse (1034238) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241315)

You're so right. But you've already found the ideal solution - have two boxen.
I've a bunch off Asus Eee PCs for travel utility and backup, reading /. in the toilet etc.plus one each for the kids. You can load 'em with XP or any of a variety of great *nix distros that fans have rolled. All work pretty much 'out of the box' (including XP).

But....but...for 'serious' work I still use a full-sized PC. Where's the problem?
I'm typing this on a cheap (500Euro) Packard Bell which has a decent, bright wide screen, a dual-core proc and runs Vista and Ubuntu just fine...

Have your cake and eat it...

For seriously small mobile stuff, use your iPhone or whatever (I use a Pearl...)

Wow (1)

MLS100 (1073958) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241015)

I'm not a Linux fan myself but that is actually a pretty attractive feature set for $100 and I would seriously consider buying one if they were:

1. Fully supported: I don't have to hack anything to get something working, ever. That means after updates too.

2. Battery life was really ~10 hours.

3. Flash worked (sadly a web necessity).

4. Hibernate works flawlessly.

5. ARM repository is respectable and frequently updated.

6. It at least works as fast as my P3 1GHz on WinXP.

6 check marks there and you've got a check from me for a nice light web browsing / word processing computer.

Has the font situation improved in Linux since like 4 years ago?

Re:Wow (1)

MLS100 (1073958) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241041)

Err, nevermind just read TFA and they don't even have a real keyboard. Sigh, oh well.

Re:Wow (1)

manuvajpai (1571417) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241163)

6. It at least works as fast as my P3 1GHz on WinXP.

I think it will. At least with the upcoming multicore cortex SOCs and with an optimized linux distro.

7 (there you go! Numbering is fine now ^_^ ) Has the font situation improved in Linux since like 4 years ago?

I understand your gripes. I have been going in and out of the linux world because of this very reason. I absolutely hated and shunned fonts on linux distros until I met Ubuntu. I think they implement freetype2 by default in their applications and with subpixel smoothing enabled (disabled by others because of certain patent violations. As you can expect the patents belong to some rotten fruity company).

I tried to get it working recently on OpenSUSE and finally achieved font nirvana on it too. So I don't think that fonts will cause any more problems to you.

Re:Wow (1)

Clarious (1177725) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241203)

I think they implement freetype2 by default in their applications and with subpixel smoothing enabled (disabled by others because of certain patent violations.

IIRC, they have their own patch for better font display, but not the technology patented by MS and Apple (Cleartype).

Re:Wow (4, Interesting)

Larryish (1215510) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241775)

Linux fonts and the Linux interface in general (I use Gnome) have really improved. In fact, many cross-platform apps like Firefox and OpenOffice don't show any appreciable difference between the Linux version and the Windows version.

Example:

I gave my mother-in-law a used laptop early last year, Gateway Solo 5300 700mhz with half a gig of RAM and Ubuntu 7.10

It was the first computer she ever actually owned. She had only used Windows machines up to that point.

She teaches at her hometown high school and uses her computer for email, browsing the web, editing Word documents and playing Mahjong.

I never once had her call for help, and she was able to do everything that she needed.

About 3 months ago the machine went dead, most likely a motherboard problem.

She had me find her a decent laptop on eBay, gave me a budget of $250. I roped in a 1 ghz Thinkpad for around 190 bucks and she requested that I set it up with Ubuntu. So I graduated her up to Ubuntu 8.04, handed her the machine, and haven't had a support call yet.

Unless you are an avid gamer, or your job/hobby requires esoteric software that only runs on Windows, Linux is ready for the desktop. Your 60 year old mother-in-law could even use it.

RiscOS (3, Interesting)

Dynamoo (527749) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241031)

Of course, RiscOS [wikipedia.org] is a tailor-made OS for ARM processors. That really is a very lightweight and simple OS and while it doesn't have the applications available that a Linux distro does, it might make an interesting port for this sort of platform.

Re:RiscOS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241107)

I feel for you, but it's over it's time to move on.

Re:RiscOS (4, Interesting)

david.given (6740) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241149)

Last year I put together a basic kernel reimplementation in portable C (as much as possible); interested parties may want to check it out [cowlark.com] . It was a pretty unpleasant job. While RISC OS looks elegant on the surface, inside it's a nasty maze of inconsistent APIs, duplicated APIs, APIs that require certain (unfriendly) implementations, APIs that should have been deprecated and haven't been, APIs that don't exist and should to avoid having to read the kernel private workspace, and most terrible of all, APIs that expose kernel implementation details. And, just to add insult to injury, most of RISC OS is written in hard-to-maintain machine code. (And the APIs are very unfriendly to C.)

Not to mention the fact that RISC OS is missing certain bits of functionality that everyone nowadays takes for granted: threads, preemptive multitasking, memory protection between processes, a GUI that can be driven from the keyboard...

Given how much of an overhaul it would need to be meet modern standards of functionality, it'd probably be easier just to start again from scratch with a proper OS design. I find myself rather intrigued by Prex [sourceforge.net] , for example, which is a minimalist embedded operating system with hypervisor-like functionality and a Unixish system call interface. And, unlike RISC OS, it's BSD licensed.

Re:RiscOS (3, Interesting)

horza (87255) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241683)

There is certainly some truth to what you say, though I may disagree with some of your interpretations. Though I have been away from RiscOS for a number of years, so cannot comment on the current state, I always found the APIs a pleasure to use. The ability to add or patch 'modules' was great. I interned at Acorn for my Masters and worked directly on the kernel (the http module amongst other things) and found the source well written and commented. There was certainly some ARM assembler (not quite the same as machine code) but I don't remember it being 'most' of RiscOS. I bow to your more recent knowledge though, you seem to have investigated quite thoroughly.

I've written RiscOS apps in ARM, C and BASIC, and it is the most pleasurable computer experience I have ever had. Even BASIC apps ran full speed, and GUI apps were a doddle to write. From a user perspective it was the most productive windowing system for its time. It did have limitations, however, and was very targeted at Acorn's own hardware.

I disagree that it misses preemptive multi-tasking and threads. It was a design decision to go with co-operative multi-taking, much like Linus decided to go with a monolithic kernel instead of a micro-kernel. And in much the same way as one was supposed to be theoretically better than the other but one "just worked", RiscOS was the fastest most responsive OS on the market. One software manufacturer forced their clients to buy Acorn computers just to run their software as no other OS was responsive enough to run it (Sibelius). It requires a different way of thinking, much like writing a Twisted module instead of an Apache one, but for all the theory of a rogue app slowing or taking down the OS in practice it never happened.

Though from a performance perspective RiscOS would be perfect for a netbook, and would be more responsive than most other OS, it doesn't make sense from a commercial perspective over Linux due to the vast wealth of available software easily ported. It is an easy choice for users between a slight performance increase, and Ubuntu with thousands of free apps installable in a single mouse click for free.

Phillip.

Re:RiscOS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241701)

While RISC OS looks elegant on the surface, inside it's a nasty maze of inconsistent APIs, duplicated APIs, APIs that require certain (unfriendly) implementations...

So it's like POSIX then?

To those who defend the status quo... (0, Troll)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241051)

What if we in the Linux world could confidently say that an app can be written and be able to run as expected on everything Linux?

If such were to be the case, news such as this would be sweet. Sadly, it's going to be a "mess" to Microsoft's delight.

Sometimes I wonder whether Microsoft is responsible for some of the chaos in the Linux OS community.

Distros that feature...

(a) Different libraries to do the same thing

(b) Different versions of the same software to do similar stuff

(c) Different naming conventions for libraries

(d) Different "homes" for applications and systems files

(e) An over zealous following, some of who make key decisions

(f) Creators that do not appreciate the fact that human beings do not neccessarily want change...even when the change is for their own good ...will always be "behind."

Now kudos to the developers for I know writing code that actually does something useful is no easy task.

We need a second source for Microsoft software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241111)

Linux will never compete with Windows as long as a vast majority of software, particularly cutting edge software, is written in Windows. Unless Microsoft screws up badly, inertia will keep them king of the hill.

The government should create a second source for Microsoft software. It worked wonders for the processor industry. The amount of innovation created by the competition from AMD and Intel is on a level never seen before. I think it would work for the operating system industry.

P.S. I am hopping mad right now because I crashed a plane in Flight Simulator due to two bugs. If Microsoft won't fix their own software, the government should find someone who will.

At least someone different sees Linux's problems (5, Interesting)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241171)

From one of the linked articles...

"He acknowledged two concerns for smartbooks are the lack of native support for Adobe Flash on ARM and the fragmentation of Linux application environments. However, he said solutions to both issues are in the works." Emphasis in bold mine.

And further,

"One of the downsides of Linux is the fragmented nature of it," he said. "That's why so many designers are excited about Google's Android, because it's managed by a single entity," he added."

Now, these are folks doing very serious work with Linux. Many Slashdoters have said the same things only to be branded as trolls. I can see a future for Android if Google continues to do a good job.

Re:At least someone different sees Linux's problem (5, Interesting)

christurkel (520220) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241313)

So they're happy to have a single entity that focus on a subset of hardware with a consistent API and a development force behind it. Where have I heard that before? Let's see, it's run by a mercurial egomaniac...

Re:At least someone different sees Linux's problem (3, Insightful)

Celeste R (1002377) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241377)

Fragmentation may be an issue, but trying to fix fragmentation by making a one-shot wonder isn't going to make it less fragmented, it's only going to make it more so.

Especially because it -is- Linux... I'm sure there's still people out there that are using e9 and xfce (for their own reasons).

I myself am not disappointed with the fragmented nature of things. It gives me choice. I got tired of toying with GNOME, so I moved to KDE.

Both of them have good applications, and yes, there are some applications that I'd still use over the 'native' counterparts, because they're just that much better. That's not a problem (to me) either.

Android is lighter and all; which is a significant plus. Providing an alternative to the heavyweights (like X) is a good thing! However, as another alternative, it's only going to fragment the landscape that much more. (i.e. can I run Android apps on my linux netbook? yes, but only if you run a container app).

And then, I have to ask: would you still want to use that KDE or GNOME app on your android netbook? Would you want it to be -capable- of running GNOME or KDE apps? (at worst, this means running a minimalized X server on top of Android).

The only solution to being able to run those apps at all would mean getting a high-end smartbook. This would include things like more ram, some sort of hard drive (I'd go with SSD here), and things like that.

And in the meantime, the general public would have to deal with a limited application environment. Which... isn't a big problem, provided it can at least do the basics.

Re:What Linux problems? (2, Interesting)

Johnny Loves Linux (1147635) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241403)

From your posting and the quotes you refer to, I'm guessing the issue you seem to be having is the availability of proprietary software on Linux.

From my perspective, I couldn't care less about proprietary software. I've got linux. I've got Debian Linux. I've got 24,000+ software packages ready to go on ARM. What do I need proprietary software for? What's the smartbook for? Reading e-mail, web browsing, watching a video, maybe doing a presentation. Where's the need for proprietary software? I already have google for online searching, maps, e-mail. What need is there for proprietary software?

If you're a proprietary software developer why not save yourself some grief and pain and write your software for the iphone. Apple would be happy to review your software for its suitability to its platform. I'm also sure that if you write software for Microsoft's platforms and it's wildly successful there's a pretty good chance of being bought out by Microsoft on their terms, and if the terms aren't good enough for Microsoft they might just take your good idea and make their own inferior copy of it.

If you really want to write proprietary software for Linux, then I would encourage you to write web based software where you own the server and your clients interact with your server using a standards compliant browser. That way it doesn't matter what OS the client is running, and you don't have to deal with support issues.

Europe (1)

Godji (957148) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241237)

So are these coming to Europe any time soon or will they be for the Asian market only?

Eight hours on a battery at a 200$ price point? Windows is dead.

Would be a good "office laptop" replacement (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241259)

Let's see, what do we need... Email? Check. Browser? Check. Office suite? Check, with OO.

Now, how to convince your boss that this is the laptop he's looking for. The 8 hours battery life should be a good selling point (heck, it sure would be one with mine), but what about the design? he'll need it for bragging purposes as much as for actual work, so it has to look really cool and important.

Re:Would be a good "office laptop" replacement (1)

A12m0v (1315511) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241389)

does it have Microsoft Outlook and sync with Microsoft Exchange?

No...?

Re:Would be a good "office laptop" replacement (1)

Tranzistors (1180307) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241549)

You mean Evolution? Why yes, it does.

I thought linux was free software (2, Funny)

Frequency Domain (601421) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241287)

Why do you need an Adjustable Rate Mortgage to power it?

Re:I thought linux was free software (1)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241385)

Because compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe.
--Paraphrase of a quote usually attributed to Einstein.

As Always, One Wonders About Keyboard (Dis)Comfort (1)

resistant (221968) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241295)

I was curious about one of the prototypes listed, so I searched [linuxdevices.com] for it. One of the pictures, for example, shows what seems an okay sized keyboard displayed on a touch-sensitive screen, but one wonders how it would feel to actually have to type very much on it. One of the reasons I've been waiting for prices to drop on the Asus EEE PC 1000HE Netbook [tomshardware.com] is that I wanted a small-form laptop with quite long battery life which also offered a keyboard large enough to allow a decent amount of typing before my fingers would suddenly thrash around and reach for my throat.

I do like the idea behind these "smartbooks", especially with Linux distributions, but just how small is it possible to make keyboards (virtual or real) on what looks like a small laptop before people will simply balk at them (sometimes without quite knowing why)?

How has this worked for other common ultra-portable devices with semi-full keysets that haven't been explicitly marketed as "smartbooks/netbooks/notebooks"?

Do keyboards REALLY matter??? (1)

Fantastic Lad (198284) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241623)

Yep. The eeePc 1000 series with the Atom chip is very nice. I didn't wait for the prices to drop, and I got one shortly after the container ship from Asia disgorged. It's isn't perfect, though. The battery life, while pretty good, is nowhere near the 7.5 hours promised by ASUS. After seven months of regular use, (and I don't use any power-saving features because I find them annoying), battery life has leveled out to about three and a half hours of useful time, plus another twenty minutes of panicked warnings (in XP), that your system is about to lose power, --which makes that last twenty minutes kind of useless imo, because you're stressing over the battery and not concentrating on your work.

Still, it is by FAR the best netbook I've seen; durable and well-designed, and the hibernation system is flawless, as close to instant-on as I've needed, and I've enjoyed instant-on writing devices before. But the keyboard is what makes it truly practical. --Even after the honeymoon period wore off, I still use the eee regularly. It has become what I'd hoped; a good, solid tool.

These new machines, if they can do what they promise with battery power on the ARM chip, will be quite impressive. If they build something you can actually type on comfortably and which offers a decent screen size, (I refuse to work on anything with less than 10" of screen real estate; I find small screens make me feel claustrophobic and this affects my writing, making me think smaller and more breathlessly). . , if such problems can be overcome, then such a device would definitely be worth a look.

However, it sounds to me as though they're trying to sell Nintendo controllers with screens where you can use your thumbs to enter text. --Rather than sell devices designed for getting actual work done. I suspect this is because they simply did the market research and realized that while the common user SAYS s/he wants to work on a mobile computer, what they really want is to goof off on Facebook.

It'll be interesting to see how they manage to sell these things past people's false notions about themselves.

-FL

Re:As Always, One Wonders About Keyboard (Dis)Comf (1)

Larryish (1215510) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241859)

Some company should design a keyboard which can slide out sideways to offer more space. It would be really cool to have a full-sized keyboard on a netbook. Bonus if they can also make an extendable LCD screen.

A full sized keyboard and a wide screen which, when closed, measures 6 x 8 inches and maybe 1.5 inches thick? Sign me up.

No one can stop the x86 train... (1)

A12m0v (1315511) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241383)

not even Intel!

Re:No one can stop the x86 train... (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241455)

No one has to stop it. It's collapsing under its own weight.

Re:No one can stop the x86 train... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241547)

Oh right. ARM and Linux is going to replace x86 and Windows this year. It's truly the year of Linux on the netbook. Err, maybe.

Captcha was: glacial

Re:No one can stop the x86 train... (1)

iggymanz (596061) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241573)

how so? from 64-way smp down to VIA ultra-low voltage chips used in embedded and mobile, looks like a pretty versatile architecture

Re:No one can stop the x86 train... (4, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241761)

VIA ultra-low voltage chips

Oh, this made me laugh. The OMAP3 used in these laptops is considered power-hungry in ARM circles. It draws 250mW when using the ARM core (complete with FPU and vector unit), the DSP, the OpenGL 2 ES GPU, the 512 MB of flash and 256MB of RAM and the other integrated components in the package. In contrast, the best 'low power' x86 chips use 2W for just the CPU and need more power for the GPU and supporting chipset. When you factor everything in, the best x86 solutions need over an order of magnitude more power for the same level of performance. Even the Geode has an embarrassingly high power consumption (close to 7W for a complete system, excluding display), and it doesn't even come close to the performance of a 250mW ARM system.

Re:No one can stop the x86 train... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241555)

ARM you mean?

Intel is hardly interested in stopping the x86 train... On the contrary.

I know this is a bit whacko out there but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241461)

If someone made an ARM notebook with a cd or dvd drive, someone could write a compatability layer for 3DO console games! The original 3do was based on an Arm-60 chip. a portable games console even if the initial titles are older would be awesome.

I just want ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#28241603)

... basic web surfing (no flash required), multiple ssh's being usable, long battery life, and a good keyboard.

Curious and confusing trends (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 5 years ago | (#28241671)

The PDA offered all sorts of personal data and other functions for people who needed or wanted their information handy. It also played some simple and at times addictive games along with supporting ebook reading. The PDA never attained critical mass and the majority of people never really accepted them. They were seen as nerdy and geeky and at the same time they lacked the power to appeal to the actual nerds and geeks so each side had reasons for not getting them. Merging phones and PDAs were a good step but they were often too big for all but the most serious power users. Blackberry beat the odds by really catching on in the business/corporate marketplace. These devices were NOT fun and didn't have any flash or fanciness. I'm a little lost on why they caught on and continue to maintain a strong user base, but they do... and I have a blackberry pearl model myself.

But mobile computing... a cute and attractive toy. It has plenty of geek appeal. And with the ever-growing market for social networking sites like "Friend Face" and others, it maintains its value with the non-geek crowd so long as they can connect to the internet using wifi hotspots and the like. The term "Netbook" keys on "Net" and every time I see one that doesn't easily support common WiFi services and such, I see doom for them. (They should all have Bluetooth and make it easy to get to the internet with a user's smart phone. And they should be able to connect and work with even those stupid "Windows Only" Wifi services... both of these points are criticisms of Linux based Netbooks. The inability to connect Netbooks to the Net is a show-stopper for many and represents a pretty high hurdle for Linux on the Netbook.)

I love my netbooks. I have an ASUS 900a and two Mini9s. They are fun to play and hack with. I still run Windows on them though... as comfortable as I am with Linux, I want access to everything I have in the box and among these are the AT&T mobile card in there complete with GPS functions. I'd run MacOSX on one but to what end? Same problem as Linux... not all the hardware works. It's the functionality that matters to me. (FWIW, I run Linux everywhere else. My routers, my servers, my laptop/workstation. Everything else but the Netbook.)

Linux on the Netbook needs some special attention paid that will address primarily how people will use it. The Microsoft monopoly does lots of damage to the potential of Linux on the Netbooks. In some cases, the barriers are outside of Linux entirely as there are too many "Windows Only" devices and services out there blocking the way. Seriously... Linux Netbooks are STRICTLY for the geeks and nerds and shouldn't be pushed onto the general public until they can do everything Netbooks are needed for and it's all about getting connected the way I see it. Geeks and nerds will push through the problems and make it work. Regular users will not. There is a lot of work on the Netbook and the nearly exclusive "Windows Only" networld we live in.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>