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Japanese ESRB Bans Rape Depiction In Games

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the touchy-subjects dept.

Censorship 662

eldavojohn writes "The Ethics Organization of Computer Software (EOCS), now 233 companies strong, and met in Tokyo yesterday to ban a controversial title from Japan known as RapeLay, an eroge game (something much more adult than the more popular dating simulators). It's gotten a lot of press as reviewers have noted at one point the player must force sex on a 12-year-old. More importantly, the large ($353 million annually) adult game industry in Japan will now need to stay away from rape in their games if they wish to remain a member of EOCS. RapeLay seems to be available on Amazon's UK and JP sites, sparking outrage and causing a former US Ambassador to Japan to write an editorial criticizing Japan, saying, 'Only Japan allows people to possess these hideous images without penalty. Six of the G-7 countries have found ways to protect the innocent from being prosecuted for possession of child pornography. Is it not time for Japan to find a way to punish the guilty?' Singapore's Straits Times has more details, pointing out that it's still not illegal to possess these materials in Japan. We discussed this and other games last month in an editorial."

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662 comments

All I can say is (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247537)

Kekekekekekeke

I know what's gonna happen now (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247539)

Damn, the torrenting of this game is gonna skyrocket after the article. Teh forbidden fruit in action.

Re:I know what's gonna happen now (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28248009)

The shitstorm over RapeLay isn't anything new, Slashdot is just yet again very, very late. Any wave of people downloading it out of curiosity has passed by now.

And for any interested Slashdotters, if you're going to try to run it under Wine, don't bother. Like most Japanese programs it runs like shit under Wine. You'll have to settle for lesser rape games like I did. :(

Protect the innocent! (5, Funny)

MrMista_B (891430) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247541)

Because oh no, those poor imaginary cartoon characters need judicial protection!

Won't someone think of the imaginary children?

Re:Protect the innocent! (2, Insightful)

jbacon (1327727) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247603)

Mod parent up!

Which would you pick, Slashdot - a (creepy) guy getting his rocks off to a simulation, or the real thing? Ban the simulation out of existence, then tell me what's left.

Re:Protect the innocent! (4, Interesting)

rohan972 (880586) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247741)

Which would you pick, Slashdot - a (creepy) guy getting his rocks off to a simulation, or the real thing? Ban the simulation out of existence, then tell me what's left.

Do you have any evidence that less rape is committed as a result of the availability of rape simulation? Until such evidence is provided, this argument is on a par with the idea that rape games cause people to rape.

Re:Protect the innocent! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247839)

Japan has low rape rates compared to other countries. Of course, that could just mean lots of rapes go unreported.

Re:Protect the innocent! (5, Insightful)

RsG (809189) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247881)

Which would you pick, Slashdot - a (creepy) guy getting his rocks off to a simulation, or the real thing? Ban the simulation out of existence, then tell me what's left.

Do you have any evidence that less rape is committed as a result of the availability of rape simulation? Until such evidence is provided, this argument is on a par with the idea that rape games cause people to rape.

I'd go a step further and say both arguments are utter BS. They're both grounded in the same untested premise - that people are largely unable to tell fantasy from reality.

If a person is going to commit rape, offering them the alternative of a game that simulates it isn't going to stop them. This argument seems to boil down to the idea that the culprit can get what he wants from pixels, which is a bit like assuming that your average serial killer will be content with GTA.

Conversely, assuming that the game will make a creepy, but otherwise harmless man into a rapist, is equal crap. It assumes a level of mental malleability that adults generally don't have. People don't undergo radical changes in personality and ethics simply because of some piece of media they've taken to.

Humans are generally given far less credit than is due when it comes to their capacity to make their own decisions. If people were changed so drastically by what they consumed for entertainment, the world would be a far, far bleaker place.

That being said, I'd say "rape simulator" rates right up there with "torture for dummies" as something that really doesn't need to exist. On the other hand, I'm loath to suggest censorship in even such an extreme case - I'm of the opinion that the act of censorship is generally worse than the thing being censored. So in this case I'm torn...

Re:Protect the innocent! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247923)

So in this case I'm torn...

So is the 12 year old I just raped in the butt. I didn't even use the simulator because that's worse than using a condom and not jizzing on a raped bitch. BTW her asshole was great.

- Wolf Bearclaw

ban them both (0, Redundant)

sonamchauhan (587356) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247771)

ban them both ... its a false dichotomy to say if you ban child porn simulations, child rape will rise.

Its fair to expect at least this much from people.

Re:ban them both (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247885)

Do you even know what the term "false dichotomy" means? Because you sure as hell did not use it correctly here.

Re:Protect the innocent! (1, Insightful)

mishari26 (885773) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247659)

The real story here is: Why is there such huge demand for this perverse behavior in Japan? So yes it is silly to criminalize this, but it is worthwhile looking into why is there such a big audience for "forced 12-yo rape" in Japan in the 1st place.

Re:Protect the innocent! (5, Insightful)

RsG (809189) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247783)

Depressing as this may sound, I'm inclined to suspect that such a game would succeed on this side of the pacific. Ditto just about any country. The only real reason you don't see such things is that the public outcry they would raise and the mob behaviour that would in turn be incited would burn them clean out of existence in no time flat.

"Demand for perverse behaviour" isn't a Japanese thing, it's a human one.

You might be wiser to ask why there is no such backlash in Japan, but then I could point out TFA as an example of backlash in action. Perhaps it simply took longer, or perhaps the threshold for such an outcry was set higher. Cultures vary, but the basic response when enough people are sufficiently outraged is universal.

Re:Protect the innocent! (5, Insightful)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247869)

Why is there such huge demand for this perverse behavior in Japan?

Hmmm. Japan doesn't have a monopoly on perversity. American Idol, Australian Idol, Britain's Got Talent come to mind. Capitalising on humiliation and misery is arguably a form of rape, and I've only scratched the surface with what I know of those shows...

Re:Protect the innocent! (1)

RuBLed (995686) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247665)

Nice move EOCE especially during the recession. I just hope those tentacle monsters and 12yr old girl robots will find descent jobs once they had been sacked.

Re:Protect the innocent! (2, Insightful)

patro (104336) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247745)

Because oh no, those poor imaginary cartoon characters need judicial protection!

Won't someone think of the imaginary children?

Those who have those urges towards children may feel prodded seeing the depicted acts to try them in the real world.

Yes, it's the same with murder and stuff, but those being legal doesn't mean we should make everything legal just because it's "imaginary".

Re:Protect the innocent! (5, Insightful)

Rycross (836649) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247769)

Uh? Its legal by default, until we make it illegal. If you want to make it illegal, you're going to show evidence that it needs to be. As sick as it is, there's no evidence that its hurting anyone.

Re:Protect the innocent! (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247791)

Those who have those urges towards children may feel prodded seeing the depicted acts to try them in the real world.

Those who have those urges towards children may feel relieved to have a harmless outlet and a coping mechanism for their urges.

Re:Protect the innocent! (4, Insightful)

TheLink (130905) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247889)

Wouldn't that argument also apply to banning Grand Theft Auto and other violent video games (and movies for that matter)?

Re:Protect the innocent! (2, Informative)

julesh (229690) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247939)

Those who have those urges towards children may feel prodded seeing the depicted acts to try them in the real world.

Maybe. Although nobody has come up with any convincing evidence yet; most studies find no [wiley.com] effect [nih.gov]. And some psychologists have suggested the effect could be the opposite (i.e., not being able to see the acts they already fantasize about may push them to do them themselves, rather than watching somebody else do them), although I have yet to see a study examining this hypothesis explicitly.

I.e., we don't know whether the effect of limiting access to such material is to reduce or increase the number of offences that are committed. Therefore, IMO, it is hideously irresponsible to act based on hunches and guesses of what might be the case.

Re:Protect the innocent! (1)

Zerth (26112) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247757)

Hell with the imaginary children, think of the hit to the Japanese economy!

Kanchu arcade game makers will go out of business, software houses will close, a whole class of hookers will have to find a new fetish, and the porn industry will have to find a new way to make a bunch of blurry mosaics titillating.

I don't think they realize how much of the country is funded by this.

Re:Protect the innocent! (1)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247793)

They're worried about escalation.

Raping those poor pixels and imaginary children may not matter, but it certainly is easier and harder to detect than stalking someone, don't you think?

It's like that freak that tried to kill someone after watching Dexter. [mirror.co.uk] Plant a seed, watch it grow. There's many people with messed up soil, but without the seed they probably won't turn into murders/rapists/thieves/etc.

Mind you, it is possible to turn the soil. Catch a kid stealing candy in the act, and punish them, and they're far less likely to become thieves later in life. I'm not sure how well that'd work with a Rapist or Murderer... it's not something I'd want to check through experimentation.

Re:Protect the innocent! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247893)

It's like that freak that tried to kill someone after watching Dexter.

Sounds a bit sinister.

Re:Protect the innocent! (4, Interesting)

fractoid (1076465) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247953)

It seems chirality is not dead after all... ;)

There will always be the odd problem with 'crazy person see, crazy person do'. He watched Dexter - if he hadn't, he'd have watched some other show involving a serial killer and the result would have been much the same.

Re:Protect the innocent! (1)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247965)

Yes indeed. Murder is all around us now, and there's not much we can do about it. Every day a crazy person somewhere Sees and Does.

But how many shows or games do you know of that visually depict Rape? The cork is still in the bottle, but for how long?

Re:Protect the innocent! (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247841)

What about all the imaginary tentacles that will be out of work, on the street, and make Godzilla look like a saint when it comes to ruining a city?

Re:Protect the innocent! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247843)

Also...

Because having "consensual sex" with a 12 year old is AOK guys. It is just the rape that is bad...

WTF???

Re:Protect the innocent! (5, Informative)

julesh (229690) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247983)

This is Japan. You can maybe sort-of convince them to give up their rape porn. But schoolgirl porn? No deal. It's a cultural tradition, don't you know?

So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247557)

It's gotten a lot of press as reviewers have noted at one point the player must force sex on a 12-year-old

Don't all Japanese female cartoon/video game characters look like 12 year olds?

I am hopelessly conflicted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247559)

Censorship is bad, but rape is bad.

I am a good consumer and can think of only one thing at once. Which is more bad?

Censorship, obviously, because it's against freedom.

Rape is only against freedom for one 12-year-old at a time.

Re:I am hopelessly conflicted (5, Insightful)

zwei2stein (782480) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247613)

wellbeing of fictional 12-year-old? who cares!

rape game is disturbing, but hardly hurting anyone.

Re:I am hopelessly conflicted (0, Flamebait)

Itninja (937614) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247733)

Well, except for the 12 year old they used for "realistic motion capture". They didn't, but if they had (which is not really that far fetched for a Japanese game) would it still be "no big deal"? Seriously, how far does it have to go before someone is allowed to call it wrong without being labeled an hysteric?

Re:I am hopelessly conflicted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247803)

it is 2D no no "realistic motion capture"

Re:I am hopelessly conflicted (1)

Fred Ferrigno (122319) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247831)

Well, except for the 12 year old they used for "realistic motion capture". They didn't, but if they had (which is not really that far fetched for a Japanese game) would it still be "no big deal"?

No, of course not. It'd be a very big deal because someone was actually harmed. You don't prosecute the makers of horror movies on the chance that they may have tortured someone, especially not when you acknowledge that they didn't actually torture anyone.

Re:I am hopelessly conflicted (1)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247883)

No, of course not. It'd be a very big deal because someone was actually harmed.

Prove it. I'm sure it's possible to find 12 year olds that are having sex. Offer them money to record motion capture info, and you're set.

But I still disagree with a game like this. I don't think it's safe to let people indulge in... certain fantasies. I couldn't give a crap about a game where you have sex - it's the age thing that worries me.

Re:I am hopelessly conflicted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247951)

It's motion capture: use short adults.

Re:I am hopelessly conflicted (1)

fractoid (1076465) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247961)

Why would you need a 12-year-old? Find any consenting adult female who is willing to participate (hint: there are millions of them), and then remap the mocap onto whatever model you want. Just because they used mocap to create the visuals of Gollum in LotR, for instance, doesn't mean Andy Serkis had to be a several-hundred-year-old devolved halfling...

Re:I am hopelessly conflicted (1)

zwei2stein (782480) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247993)

If people do have certain fantasies, ain't it better to give them way to realize them in virtual world? Just like people who cannot be achiever in real life drown in MMOs, have would-be rapists drown in these games?

Even better: Ownership of these games can be used to identify dangerous people. Sure, they can have them, they are not hurting anyone. But as long as police/whoever knows they own those games, well ... would-be rapist will know he is gonna be first one to be investigated should something happen.

It is about transparency. You can either have people to suppress their urges, building up pressure until they do something harmful or you can let em be more open about them and keep eye on then on side just in case.

Just the beginning? (2, Insightful)

WeirdingWay (1555849) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247569)

Japanese porn, real or animation, has yet to define any boundaries of actions (sans the peculiar act of often blurring the privates) till now. Should we expect this to be a precedent for more censorship to come?

Penn Jillette speaks about Rape Lay (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247579)

Penn Jillette speaks about Rape Lay:
http://www.crackle.com/c/Penn_Says#id=2473058&ml=o%3D12%26fpl%3D360812%26fx%3D [crackle.com]

I think I agree with him, especially on the parts about fantasy game violence.

Mod Parent Up (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247627)

Interesting how less slick he is when he isn't on stage, eh?

Such an accomplished performer could put together a good script for himself and present it effectively, but he thankfully chooses just to honestly present a talk-to-the-camera opinion.

   

ESRB? (1)

socsoc (1116769) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247583)

Why doesn't the headline use EOCS? There is no Japanese ESRB.

Re:ESRB? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247641)

HEHE, author is so stupid! ESRB does not ban games or police their content - they only rate them. Of couse if you are trying to peddle your games to 14 year-olds it would be helpful to remove nudity and extreme violence. However, some companies will go out of their way to get n M (mature) rating. It's all about marketing.

Re:ESRB? (1)

Ifandbut (1328775) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247761)

However if the ESRB rates a game AO then 99% of the brick and mortar retailers will not carry the game. An AO rating is, in effect, a ban.

I will point out that you can buy the AO version of Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy via Direct2Drive.

12-year-old (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247587)

Actually, that fictional character only LOOK young. Her age is never explictly stated, and I know plenty of 18-year-old real life girls in my university who can get into amusement parts using children passes.

Re:12-year-old (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247749)

Actually, that fictional character only LOOK young. Her age is never explicitly stated, and I know plenty of 18-year-old real life girls in my university who can get into amusement parts using children passes.

Freudian slip? Never mind, I don't wanna know.
     

"Goodcall" "goodidea" (5, Insightful)

Meor (711208) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247605)

Since when has Slashdot trumpeted fascism? Now we're cheering outlawing things because they're offensive?

Re:"Goodcall" "goodidea" (3, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247645)

Wow, you're the second guy today who has presented the "everyone on Slashdot" fallacy. What's hard to understand here? There's a wide cross section of people on Slashdot. We all hold different opinions. Those of us who hold similar opinions often hold them to differing degrees. That's what makes it so interesting.

Guilty of what? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247619)

Raping a character in a video game is no more real than killing said character. At what point will we become liable for murder when playing a shooter? Put simply:

There's no crime here, asshole. The only thing anyone is guilty of here, is pandering.

Re:Guilty of what? (1, Insightful)

BikeHelmet (1437881) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247949)

Indeed, but when most of us "kill" or "murder" said characters, we're playing games like TF2 or L4D. Games where you can have an arrow sticking through your head and keep on going, or your only worry is getting eaten by zombies. Not very realistic.

Now, lets say you knew someone in college, and he spent most of his day playing a single player game where you murder people. Lets say it has superior graphics to the current stuff - at least as good as Crysis.

The primary objective is to abduct and subdue people in different ways, take them to a hideout, and then murder them. Lets say you have options like... carving them up, strangling them, pulling them apart on a Rack, throwing acid on them, cutting off their limbs, flaying them alive, etc. etc., all while they writhe in agony and scream. Makes a pretty picture, doesn't it?

Don't you find it creepy that this guy plays it all day long? I really feel that some fantasies don't have to be fulfilled... we shouldn't go there, even if that sort of game will have no effect on most of us.

Re:Guilty of what? (5, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#28248017)

wow.. you really don't get it do you? The exact argument you just made for a "serial killer simulator" was made by Jack Thompson for his "cop killer simulator", the only difference is the audience. According to your logic there's something wrong with the people who watch Dexter.

It's not your cup of tea, great, good for you, go back to watching football and leave other people alone.

Morals and all that jazz (4, Insightful)

Idiot with a gun (1081749) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247631)

You know, there are many routes one can go to ban violent sexual video games/porn like this, and I'm not sure if I agree with the rational involved here. More or less, everything I've heard politicians spew (appropriate verb) about this stuff is basically "It causes people to go out and rape." Much like the dodgy connection between violent video games and real life violence (anecdotal evidence non-withstanding), I don't really buy it. Especially since each individual culture seems to have entirely different responses to various social laws. As a good example, banning guns in the US causes violent crime rates to rise (see: Washington DC), but Japan has far less of an issue, where guns have more or less been illegal for civilians since WWII. (Side note: I have not checked these numbers recently. Don't bother picking them out, it's an illustration that could rapidly be replaced with another to make the same point. Forrest for the trees and all that).

On a different note though, one of my professors had a very good reason to ban violent pornography, without going for the correlation link (which he bought into anyways. Professors are human after all). We had just finished reading J.S. Mills' On LIberty, which more or less states that "The only reason to abridge a person's personal freedom is harm to others. Moral disgust is not an adequate reason to stop someone, unless if they are going to harm someone else directly or indirectly (Say, if by being an alcoholic they are incapable of parental duties, etc)." His point was, if this pornographic material spreads the ideology that women are sexual objects existing only for men's pleasure, which causes women to self-censor themselves and their ideas due to peer pressure, fear, or general brain washing, then it must be banned.

But, politicians aren't arguing this, because they don't actually care about freedom, they care about making it look like they're doing something in order to ensure re-election. Because 90% of "concerned" parents in the suburbs are going to say "Rape is bad, rape games depict rape, so it must enforce rape, and this politician banning rape games must be fighting rape! Vote for him!" And we just helped him too, by the way.

Re:Morals and all that jazz (5, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247691)

His point was, if this pornographic material spreads the ideology that women are sexual objects existing only for men's pleasure, which causes women to self-censor themselves and their ideas due to peer pressure, fear, or general brain washing, then it must be banned.

Sorry, I missed that. Can you explain the argument more? Cause all I'm seeing here is the old "frame it the way I see it, then ban it" bullshit that you criticized earlier in your comment.

Example: If a carnivore diet spreads the ideology that animals exist only for human consumption, which causes vegetarians to self-censor themselves and their ideas due to peer pressure, fear, or general brain washing, then it must be banned.

Example: If football spreads the ideology that physical violence is something men should be willing to tolerate and causes them to self-censor their outrage and appeal for legislative relief due to peer pressure, fear, or general brain washing, then it must be banned.

The argument is that if any activity is effective at spreading some perceived negative idea then it should be banned. So give me the activity you want banned and I'll frame you an negative idea you can use to attack it.

Re:Morals and all that jazz (5, Insightful)

Idiot with a gun (1081749) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247773)

Of course, I'd be happy to explain more. But, before I dive into this, let me note that I'm not totally sure if I agree with my professor. As a good student, I'm going to consider his opinion (and in this case, argue it), but not necessarily accept it as the truth.

Your examples point to a single idea (often capable of being practised alone) being put down. Example: The idea spreads that animals only exist for consumption, therefore vegetarians back down and self-censor themselves. The issue is, this is an ideological disagreement, not a discrimination issue. The idea is spreading contrary Vegetarian beliefs not existence and right/capability to express an opinion. Should the meat eaters get violent in repressing vegetarians, this is an issue entirely separate from whether or not to be carnivore/herbivore/omnivore.

The basic idea is, if you're spreading material that puts down a group of society specifically, not their ideas, but them, my right to say that under free speech is questionable at best. If I somehow begin spreading movies, using paid actors acting of their own free will, declaring the inferiority of "niggers," while not necessarily doing anything violent, most people would complain. However, should my movies/shows become super popular to the point where blacks begin to self-silence themselves because they are beginning to buy into the opinion that "those niggers" are incapable of intelligent thought, this would be extremely bad. Specifically, society is severely hurt when any major adult sector (male, female, black, white, asian, whatever) is silenced for any reason, self or otherwise.

Now, the important question when considering my professors point is, do women consider themselves to be less important in modern society due to the presence of violent pornography and these rape games? I honestly don't know. Sociology questions like this tend to be rather tricky. I would say, in the current atmosphere where most (non frat-boys) are ashamed to admit their usage of kinky/violent porn/videogames, no. If at any point it becomes normal for polite men in society to talk about their rape games, using lewd and aggressive terms towards the digital other gender, then we would begin to have an issue.

Re:Morals and all that jazz (5, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247825)

If I somehow begin spreading movies, using paid actors acting of their own free will, declaring the inferiority of "niggers," while not necessarily doing anything violent, most people would complain.

And rightfully so, but to ban the production of such films would be against the concept of freedom of speech. Ironically, self-censorship is exactly what has caused the withering away of such stereotyping.. yet your professor's argument is that self-censorship is something we should avoid, and do so at the expense of freedom of speech. Overcoming fear and peer pressure has always been a barrier to saying anything worth saying and without free speech protection we're just adding another barrier. The most effective measure to speech you don't like is not banning it, but speaking out against it.

Re:Morals and all that jazz (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247863)

ironically the two examples you gave are more or less true, go outside some time

Re:Morals and all that jazz (3, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247985)

That's why I chose them. I wasn't trying to set up straw men that I could then push down, I was trying to show that it is possible to make perfectly good arguments for banning all speech and only be rejecting the suggestion of banning any speech can you maintain free speech.

They can't ban hentai rape gmaes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247639)

They must make up, like, 74% percent of the Japanese economy!

WHY?????? (0, Troll)

Erythros (140001) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247649)

"It's gotten a lot of press as reviewers have noted at one point the player must force sex on a 12-year-old."

I almost vomited when I read this...
I always feel sickened to my stomach when you read news of some sick bastard who rapes someone, especially a child.
To have a "game" promote this as an achievement is disturbing.

There are plenty of strange sex acts that consenting adults can engage in, including fantasy rape scenes, that can border on the illegal but don't .....wow... I am so disgusted I cannot even finish my thoughts.

Promoting such acts should be banned, and anyone who actually performs such an act should be castrated/killed.

Re:WHY?????? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247685)

Methinks the lady doth protest too much

GTFO pedo.

Re:WHY?????? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247819)

Evidently you've never had sex before the age of majority(unsuprising around here) and never had sex involving a cheerleader outfit or pigtails.

Thank God (1, Informative)

A12m0v (1315511) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247689)

it is not true!
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/05/29/media-invents-eroge-ban/ [sankakucomplex.com]

Only thing worst than a prude America, is a prude Japan!

Where will I get my rape-themed H-games and H-Anime from?

If it is ok to murder in games it should be OK to rape. Nothing wrong with it, and I have no reason to be anonymous!

Re:Thank God (4, Insightful)

fractoid (1076465) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247815)

If it is ok to murder in games it should be OK to rape. Nothing wrong with it, and I have no reason to be anonymous!

This is something I've never understood. Why is it OK for a PG-13 type game to have the player mowing down hundreds of realistic-looking human enemies with an automatic rifle, but the moment there's any sexual content whatsoever the game is banned and there's a moral panic? Take the Hot Coffee GTA mod for example, the game is all about killing people and blowing shit up, and then there's an outcry over a scene where adults have consensual relations?

I'm not condoning actual rape in any form, but surely a simulation of such a thing running on someone's computer can't be worse than an equally detailed simulation of killing and then dismembering someone with a chainsaw? In extreme cases, it may even be a way for sexual misfits to satisfy their urges without harming actual, living people, letting them be functional members of society.

Nintendo all the way! (5, Funny)

retech (1228598) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247715)

Let's go back to the old NES days. The only thing that ever made people do was eat mushrooms and beat the shit outta turtles. Those were the days, young prepubescent CGI girls could safely wander the streets.

Custer's Revenge, anyone? (3, Informative)

Bones3D_mac (324952) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247913)

"Let's go back to the old NES days. The only thing that ever made people do was eat mushrooms and beat the shit outta turtles. Those were the days, young prepubescent CGI girls could safely wander the streets."

You must've missed the game "Custer's Revenge", a game where you specifically went around raping native american women tied to a stake.

- Custer's Revenge game play clip [youtube.com]

Disturbing stuff...

Re:Custer's Revenge, anyone? (1)

Engeekneer (1564917) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247955)

And in addition to this, with those graphics, you can't prove that the woman is an adult. Some reality challenged judge could decide that she's a minor, and all players, well, both players of the game would be in trouble.

cartoons are NOT "child pornography" (5, Insightful)

1u3hr (530656) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247719)

Child pornography is abhorred because of the harm done to children in its creation. No children are harmed in making a cartoon. So it is entirely appropraiate that they not be treated as if they were movies or photographs of real sex crimes.

90% of video games involve depictions of violent crime, murder, war. Most people (with obvious exceptions, Jack Thompson), accept that they are FICTION.

Argue that these are disgusting, encourage degradation of women: don't say that they are in themselves criminal.

Japan's child-pornography laws don't apply to animations or computer games, nor do they criminalize the possession of child pornography, an issue that was raised by outgoing U.S. Ambassador to Japan Thomas Schieffer in January.

"Only Japan allows people to possess these hideous images without penalty," Schieffer wrote in an editorial in the Asahi newspaper on Jan 1. "Six of the G-7 countries have found ways to protect the innocent from being prosecuted for possession of child pornography. Is it not time for Japan to find a way to punish the guilty?"

"Punish the guilty". Nice turn of phrase. Just declare something you don't like is criminal, assume anyone charged with looking at it is "guilty", and proceed directly to punishment.

Re:cartoons are NOT "child pornography" (2, Interesting)

Shikaku (1129753) | more than 4 years ago | (#28248003)

Let's say fishing is illegal and as abhorred as child pornography. The reasons why both are illegal and abhorred are irrelevant to the metaphor.

Would that make games and tv shows about fishing just as terrible? Would the desire to fish in a virtual sense or watch somebody fish be just as terrible too?

Now get rid of the real rapists (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247723)

Now they need to get rid of the real rapists stationed at Okinawa.

Yes, makes sense (0, Troll)

musth (901919) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247751)

I've read a lot of ridiculous contortions on Slashdot, trying to depict realistic video game violence as pedestrian free speech, having no effect on society, even salutory for society. And I do realize that the intellectual giants behind a lot of this stuff are 24-year-old kids for whom video games and Taco Bell are still Very Important elements of their lives.

But when you get faced with more and more concrete examples of marketed, play-acted extreme violence, which keep trying to outdo each other, and which any mature, moral person apprehends as soul-deadening, and these kids still choose to stay wrapped in their simple ideologies and keep defending it....you really have to write the lot of them off completely.

Next up: game where the player tries to capture, rape, and torture the children and families of tech blog editors with adolescent ethical development.

Re:Yes, makes sense (0, Flamebait)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247777)

And I do realize that the intellectual giants behind a lot of this stuff are 24-year-old kids for whom video games and Taco Bell are still Very Important elements of their lives.

Says the guy with the 6 digit ID.

Nice attempt at a troll though, keep working on it.

Re:Yes, makes sense (4, Insightful)

treeves (963993) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247849)

Length or magnitude of UID# does not correlate with either age, intelligence or maturity, only length of time since the registration on /.

Re:Yes, makes sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247941)

Length or magnitude of UID# does not correlate with either age, intelligence or maturity

No, obviously not.

You are a troll, make no mistake:

24-year-old kids for whom video games and Taco Bell are still Very Important elements of their lives

... while you're here trolling on slashdot. Riiiight.....

Re:Yes, makes sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247967)

D'oh, wrong poster. Ignore the above, was aimed at the GP.

Re:Yes, makes sense (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247903)

But when you get faced with more and more concrete examples of marketed, play-acted extreme violence, which keep trying to outdo each other, and which any mature, moral person apprehends as soul-deadening

Please show me a "soul-deadening" video game. Any one will do.

Re:Yes, makes sense (1)

daniel_mcl (77919) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247971)

I wish I'd been there the day in debate class where they taught me how to make the argument that my opponent's position was "soul deadening," on the authority, no less, of "every mature, moral person." It seems like a pretty powerful argument, after all: anyone who would even attempt to dispute your position is then either immature or immoral, and in either case universally despised, which has to put a serious dent in his standing to argue his point with the likes of an ethical powerhouse of your eminence.

Indeed, your argument is so powerful that it shows us that Voltaire, previously thought to be one of the great ethical minds, is in fact a blubbering degenerate -- after all, his resolve to fight for free expression even for distasteful or outrageous opinions is by your argument tantamount to directly acting out the furthest slippery-slope consequences of those expressions.

Another thing I've learned from you just now is that abstract arguments do not apply to concrete situations. For instance, I may believe in freedom of religion in the abstract, but when a Muslim moves in next door all bets are off -- after all, there is now the concrete threat of my family being the victim of a "holy war," which trumps my ideals (and for that matter statistics) and tells me that I need to take action.

Truth be told, you're (perhaps unintentionally) basing your ethics around what makes you feel outraged or uncomfortable, rather than on ideals or on lucid consideration of how cause leads to effect. Forget the twentysomething videogame addicts -- even the core audience for Hannah Montana can tell you that right and wrong are universal and that you don't get to make exceptions based on your personal likes and dislikes.

Nothing changed really... (2, Informative)

vix86 (592763) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247767)

I saw this earlier last week over at kotaku [kotaku.com].TFA didn't mention this but it should be noted that while the EOCS made an official announcement that they would not produce any more "rape"-related games, it only means they have changed the way the material is presented. For example:

From the Kotaku article:

What kind of changes can we expect? Ero game maker Syrup Soft is delaying its upcoming game Gang raped by the entire village ~girls covered in milky liquid~ to re-moniker it The trap set by the entire village ~bodies covered in milky liquid~. So, yeah, expect more creative ways of masking rape and rape iconography as well as possibly more "amateur" or unlicensed games.

So "rape"-related content will still be released in video games but it will simply be masked as something else. This is just like having characters in anime that look like little kids, but claim they are actually adults.Additionally, this right's group might think they have one a victory, but there are still tons of magazines and independent comics (and games) released that are focused on the topic rape.

And in real life... (5, Interesting)

LainTouko (926420) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247775)

Perhaps this US ambassador should consider the comparitive figures for actual rape of real people who really exist in America and Japan.

Surely this difference is far too big to be explained purely as a reporting bias. 34.20 compared to 1.48 per 100,000 people, first figures I found. It's pretty clear that giving potential rapists the ability to do so in a fictional environment where they do not hurt any real people is a good way of making them less likely to do it for real. "Don't hurt anyone, that would be bad" is a better way of getting people not to hurt anyone than "revealing your fantasies makes you damned whether you hurt anyone or not."

Re:And in real life... (1)

MozzleyOne (1431919) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247999)

Correlation/causation etc.

I would be surprised if the sole reason for the difference in rates was due to the ability to see/play out encounters in a fictional environment. Japan's culture and attitude towards these issues is very different to that in America.

Tentacles... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247795)

Excluded.

We need to draw the line somewhere. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247801)

If we don't ban games with rape, then it will get worse. Eventually they might start coming out with games where people kill each other!!

Horrifically bad summary / links from wiki (2, Interesting)

paedobear (808689) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247811)

Typical for weeaboos. EOCS is merely one group of (self)18-rated PC game producing companies - they've done things like ban having characters under 18 before, which lead to a huge number of companies leaving. I'm also trying to work out what the difference between "eroge" and "dating simulators" is - the submitter probablys means girl-games (garuge) i.e. games with a strong romantic component to them. Romance and pornography are in no way related in the Japanese markets - there are plenty of games that focus on sex and eroticism with no story component - as far as I know this includes all of Illusion's games. Wonder if this will lead me to being quoted in a (major?) US newspaper as an expert on Japanse video games again...

Re:Horrifically bad summary / links from wiki (1)

Lally Singh (3427) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247899)

Are you quoted with your real name, or as "paedobear"? :-)

Re:Horrifically bad summary / links from wiki (1)

sqrt(2) (786011) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247945)

Professor of Japanese Cultural Studies, P. Bear. He's also an MD specializing in pediatric gynecology.

in other news.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247813)

4chan immediately DDOSes the J-ESRB.

failzor5! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247817)

were compounded BSDI is also dead,

Rape in Hentai?!! A striking and new developement! (2, Insightful)

Eightbitgnosis (1571875) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247829)

Did somebody along the way forget that most of the sex in hentai is rape? When's the last time that school girl consented to that tentacle monster to penetrate her every orifice?

Re:Rape in Hentai?!! A striking and new developeme (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247859)

see http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1260351&cid=28247813 :P

Wow (1, Insightful)

Lally Singh (3427) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247891)

I hope I'm not the only one honestly disturbed that rape games have customers. Funny, as I'm a big fan of GTA4.

Two issues come to mind:

1. The harm of rape simulation

While there's evidence [amazon.com] that violence and rape instincts live in ever man (and higher ape, for that matter), instinctively I believe there's difference between simulated rape and violent video games.

Violent video games are rather cathartic, and serve that need pretty well. Going around a fake city in a tank and blowing up every douchey car is just wholesome fun. But what does rape simulation appease? It's not sex, that's what porn is for.

2. Free speech

Normally I'm a blind attack-dog in favor of free speech. But here, no, I can't be. If free speech means anything more than "just let everyone talk," it has to have a purpose behind it -- such as letting different ideas being heard, or letting the truth be heard, then there has to be a some sorts of speech it encourages, and others it's agnostic to. I can't think of any case for free speech helped by defending a rape simulator.

life should be simple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#28247905)

--==* Sugarbabymeet.C'om *==-- It's where Sugarbaby (women who are mature, rich and experienced) and men who like them can meet.

I am shocked! (2, Funny)

davevr (29843) | more than 4 years ago | (#28247935)

I am shocked. After reading the article and a little more about EOCS organization, it seems that Japan makes some games that do NOT involve rape. Who would have guessed?

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