"Muthuball": How To Build an NBA Championship Team 94
First time accepted submitter Quillem writes "Muthu Alagappan, a 5'9" biomechanical engineering undergraduate at Stanford, made a presentation at this year's MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference which might well do to basketball what Moneyball did to baseball. His contribution revolves around a topographical analysis of NBA games which contends that there are really 13 positions in basketball — not just five. Besides a rather patronising — but informative — read in Gentlemen's Quarterly, there are earlier stories over at Wired and NYT blogs. Muthu's talk and slides are also available."
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I could personally care less about professional sports, however, there is a lot of money to be made from such analysis. Advertiseing revenues, statistical odds(for gambling), and learning more about a game that millions of people love than what those millions of people will ever find useful and just because we freaking can are great reasons to investigate this Stanford student's work.
Re:Sorry, but... (Score:5, Informative)
I could personally care less about professional sports.
How much less could you care, or do you mean you could not care less?
MOD PARENT UP (Score:3)
...for pointing out a common error that makes the speaker sound stupid. Is it just me or does anyone else get that "fingernails on a chalkboard" sensation every time you hear a speaker blithely say words that clearly mean the *exact opposite* of what was intended?
Re:MOD PARENT UP (Score:4, Funny)
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Irregardless of your blood, I could care less...
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...for pointing out a common error that makes the speaker sound stupid. Is it just me or does anyone else get that "fingernails on a chalkboard" sensation every time you hear a speaker blithely say words that clearly mean the *exact opposite* of what was intended?
Look, for all intensive purposes I could care less. You shouldve noticed how rediculous that argument was so it's a mute point, per say.
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Absolutely, unless it generates more advertising revenue who cares?
Re:Sorry, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's basketball. Really, does anybody with a working brain really give a screw about this game? .
Yes, we don't all fit the stereotype of nerds living in our parent's basement. Some of us actually loved sports in school, and have gone on to use that in carving a career out for ourselves.
I work in technology, and serve as a webmaster. I'm not even going to pretend like I have the tech knowledge many of the people who post on Slashdot do, but at the same time, I have more than enough to do my job. I would also like to point out, it's a job I love very much. All of which is to say I definitely have a working brain, and anyone who has spent any time with basketball knows it very much is a sport which requires the ability to think and analyze at a very rapid pace. Playing, coaching, broadcasting, even watching can be mentally taxing if you wish.
So I'd ask for you to leave your ignorance at the door and appreciate the fact that just because other people have interests you do not share, it doesn't reflect poorly on their intelligence.
Re: (Score:1, Funny)
"even watching can be mentally taxing if you wish."
only if your so fucking stupid that watching a bright orange 30 inch chunk of rubber being tossed around is mentally taxing
Re:Sorry, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Sorry. Could you repeat that? The irony made me black out for a few seconds there.
Sorry. Now my brain is bleeding. Could you start over?
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Wow, troll? I guess that's the new [citation needed] [answers.com], huh? Or maybe someone just got a little too sensitive. I don't care about basketball either way. I'm tall but fat so all I was ever good at was layups.
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That makes it even funnier. Someone who proclaims that paying attention to basketball is stupid cites the size of the ball's circumference ... accurately.
I'm ambivalent about pro ball. But that original comment was just too hilarious to let pass. Learning it could be interpreted to be even funnier than it originally appeared is priceless.
Thank you.
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That was an anonymous coward, not me
Sure guy.
I do think that being a big sports fan to the point that you memorize shit about it is a big fat fucking waste of time. But hey, is it any more of a big fat fucking waste of time than ranting on slashdot?
Unfortunately for you, you're guilty of both.
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Sure guy.
If there is any evidence to suggest it was me, please share it. If not, please die in a fire. I'm not the asshole who let anonymous cowards post on slashdot and I'm also not stupid enough to think that AC posts mean anything. That comment was probably yours since you're still here to talk shit about it. That's a better assumption than that it was mine, since I have no history of playing stupid games like that, and I've been here considerably longer than you have. In summary, bite my crank.
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chunk of rubber has been made into a ball does not change the fact that it's a 30 inch chunk of rubber
All of my basketballs are leather with a synthetic polyethylene bladder.
No rubber anywhere, but don't let that stop you from being wrong.
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It's the word "that", presumably a typo for "than", that caused the cerebral hemorrhage. Ordinarily, not a major problem, but if one is going to call somebody "stupid" it's a good idea to spell everything correctly. Otherwise, the irony can induce cerebrovascular accident.
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Well, some people like to *think* about what they are watching. Guess you aren't one of those people.
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"even watching can be mentally taxing if you wish."
only if your so fucking stupid that watching a bright orange 30 inch chunk of rubber being tossed around is mentally taxing
Troll? Gentlemen this should be modded 5: "Genius Irony" !
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Normally wouldn't bother responding to an AC troll, but this is one that will have a lot of bobbleheads nodding on Slashdot.
How comical! How comical! You're rationalizing your pathetic, worthless interests. You know, deep in your heart, that you're wrong for enjoying meaningless things such as sports. You know this. You agree with me 100%.
Pretty much every interest, short of curing disease and inventing new useful things in your spare time, is ultimately worthless. It's up to us to find our own meaning in what we do.
Watching sports can be exciting for some people. Beating the final boss in a video game can be exciting for some people. As long as what a person is doing isn't affecting you at all, please piss right off
Re:Sorry, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
I had a sarcastic reply but instead I'm going to simply say this: Donald Knuth was a basketball coach. See him talk about his baskeball coaching experience here [webofstories.com].
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Wow! Very interesting!
I really admire Donald Knuth, I really do, but I did not know he was so inarticulate! Or is it just the camera that makes him so?
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I'm no Knuth biographer, but every single interview and presentation given by Knuth that I ever saw, he always spoke like that.
Going back to basketball, some people talk tons of shit about players such as Derrick Rose for not being very articulate, accusing him of being a moron, a retard and even autistic. Yet, people such as Knuth are also not very articulate, and no one in their right mind would accuse Knuth of being a moron. That says something about being prejudiced.
This is amazing (Score:5, Funny)
a 5'9" biomechanical engineering undergraduate
I, for one, welcome our new 5'9" cyborg overlords.
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Is this like a biomechanical Engineer (ie, Space Jockey?)
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I, for one, welcome our new 5'9" cyborg overlords.
For some of us, 5'9" is an underlord.
good but incomplete (Score:5, Insightful)
The statistics currently being tracked is more offense focused. Bad Boys of Detroit, the Bulls, and the Spurs had solid defense that helped them win but not necessarily show up in statistics unless you do a game-to-game analysis of the opponent's average offense performance vs performance against a specific team.
Other than that, it's a pretty interesting thought/analysis... Just incomplete... but I'm sure someone can do a much more complete PhD thesis on this and get funded by some NBA team :-P
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Blocked shots, defensive rebounds, steals...however I have my doubts basketball will ever get sabermatic. Single players dominate too much, lineups are smaller, and playing strategies are less strategic.
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Mod parent up! Great article. Thanks for sharing.
Patronising? (Score:5, Informative)
How is the GQ article "patronising" - because the opening summary says, "A Stanford undergrad's new super-nerd study"? That's the only thing I see that could be remotely considered patronizing. And frankly, this *is* a "super-nerd" study - how is a statistical analysis of NBA players NOT super nerdy?
Can we change the Slashdot motto to "butthurt editorializing for nerds," instead of "news for nerds?" The "news" part implies a factual focus, and the summaries are increasingly flamebait of the first order.
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Sadly, I don't have mod points or I would mod the parent up. Two excellent points.
MOD PARENT UP (Score:1)
Spot-on insightfulness should be rewarded.
Top minds in America... (Score:2, Interesting)
Emulating a brad pit movie in order to advance the profitability of a stupid game that already rakes in tens of millions per team.
Great work, humanity will place you among the legends
Re:Top minds in America... (Score:5, Informative)
Moneyball the movie was based off Moneyball the book. The concepts in Moneyball are real & have been implemented by most of Major League Baseball.
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watch me give a flying fuck
The 5'9" oneno (Score:1)
Imagine, a 5'9" oneno teaching all the short guys how to beat the tall guys. One of the short guys tells his friend, Jemima's baby tall brother Jenkins, all about it. Jenkins, who is 6'7" know knows all the shit the 5'9" oneno knew, and beats him big time.
BB Theory (Score:2)
As Ethan "Bubblegum" Tate will have already remarked someday, whilst pondering the time dilation effects of Basketball wherein time passes progressively slower as less time is left "on the clock":
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz
5'9" (Score:1)
What the hell does his height have to do with anything?
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What the hell does his height have to do with anything?
Nothing, now go back to bed Napoleon.
there are really 13 positions in basketball... (Score:2)
The comments so far are disappointing (Score:5, Insightful)
You should all hand over your geek cards at the front desk, if you ever were in position of one.
You have a geek making a presentation about an idea on how to bring together an optimum team of items depending on their statistical profiles, and you argue about how interesting basketball/baseball is? I have never witnessed people miss the point all at once that badly ever before in my life...
Here, I will boil it down for you:
1. Gather statistical data on the items of which you want to build a new group of.
2. Do some data-mining and graphing to figure out how these items cluster. Do not predefine clusters, but let them surface themselves.
3. Depending on a free, non-mapped variable (e.g. cost) make an optimum choice of individuals from each group. Alternatively, base your choice on a given pattern that you want to match or counter-act (e.g. the opposing team).
4. Profit!
5. Gather new data and update your graphs to keep up with times.
How about starting to come up with ideas on how to apply this concept to physics, medicine, engineering and economics? Jeez...
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The problem is that, like Moneyball showed, it will only be an advantage as long as only a few teams (and not a majority) are using the methodologies. Once that happens, it's just the new norm.
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What do you mean the team was not that successful?
2000 91 70 .565 1st in AL West Lost ALDS to New York Yankees, 2–3. .630 2nd in AL West Lost ALDS to New York Yankees, 2–3. .636 1st in AL West Lost ALDS to Minnesota Twins, 2–3. .593 1st in AL West Lost ALDS to Boston Red Sox, 2–3. .562 2nd in AL West .543 2nd in AL West .574
2001 102 60
2002 103 59
2003 96 66
2004 91 71
2005 88 74
2006 93 69
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
And they did it for a fraction of the price of the Yankee's team. To use the Slashdot mandated car analogy, this is the same thing as racing against a 911 with a chevy accent and almost winning. Sure, you lost, but you didn't have to spend nearly as much money as your opponent to compete.
The system employed in Moneyball were great for team owners and front offices. They've been HELL for fans and players though.
Traditionally, better players were kept around and you only traded marginal players. Now thoug
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Exactly. I really don't give a fig about basketball, likely as I don't understand it, and I found this talk (and slides) fascinating! I thought it was interesting to see how he could correlate players similarity by statistics, and then use that to expose cheaper versions of awesome players, or to show how your team is missing a certain skillset.
Now if only I knew what a paint protector was and why it's important. :)
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No, I wasn't aiming for irony. I'm just in a complete other field than biomedical research. Please, enlighten us!
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How about starting to come up with ideas on how to apply this concept to physics, medicine, engineering and economics? Jeez...
How about RTFA? He was presenting on behalf of Ayasdi, a company run by Stanford mathematicians, whose proprietary software is used by physicians, environmentalists, and the government to understand cancer, diabetes, and oil spills.
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I RTFA. I also watched the presentation where he makes a similar mention. But he does not give any examples. The only example that we have is the one for basketball. So how does this work in other fields? Just to mention that it is "used by x to understand y" is not enough!
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That's what their company does, the primary uses of their software is in exactly the fields you mentioned. He simply applied it to BB as his pet project.
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public access? (Score:1)
NICE. Thanks to share. (Score:1)